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deliver great apps and drive business forward, VM, where the smarter way to clout learn more at VM. Were dot com. Slash! Welcome the too loud to hear your podcast escape the noise with the new airpods pro, with up to two times more active noise cancellation than the previous generation learn more at apple dot, com, slash, airpods pro pay so matt you- and I had this step in before we play this week's classic episode, because the title the title sounds a little more sponge bobby, I think should have been exactly but it sounds like it's. An animated made up character, commander crab we're going to do a whole netflix series on commander crab later, but no. This is actual human being and wars. Worry. We had a real story to tell ya yeah lionel buster crab disappears, the heart of the cold war on a mysterious spine mission.

No one knows what really happened from you at those two psychic powers and government conspiracies history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff. They don't want you to know. alone will come back to the show? My name is met, my name is no. They call me, then you or you, and that makes this stuff. They don't want you to know. This episode is going to be a dive into a mystery. There remains controversial in them. They literally a dive into one near the story. Recovering today has been the inspiration for several works of popular fiction in Flemings nineteen sixty one james bond novel, which then became the movie thunderbolt. It was inspired

by it and there's a nineteen. Fifty eight film called the silent enemy, which is really great and has nothing to do with farts, nor but it was based directly well as close as you can get, a hollywood failed to be based directly on something occurring. And we know- maybe you ve, probably read the title for this episode. We know that the name commander crab sound. Ok, let's just say it. It sounds kind of like a would be the name of a cartoon character. I can bring it up to my wife. Like you, I gotta do some more commander crab research and she's like what are you saying, makes me think of MR crabs from spongebob like if he had some secret life as a covert deep cover agent, but I don't think he would do a very good job is a little too mouthy. Will that might be part of his public persona, rail that might be the thin veneer over a very dangerous.

grab the heel personality that tough exoskeleton that comes with being crab unless you're soft, shell, ooh and delicious yeah you soft shell crab is not is not bad. Omen have been doing some experiments with crab recipes. It's not for everyone, though It is not for everyone. That is true. I and another thing that was not for everyone, speaking of segues, is the the concept of the cold war. That is that that is the backdrop that it is the the world and Today's story, today's a cover up conspiracy theory takes place. You further vries, cold war before describes this global post world where to tension between the clashing ideologies, clashing economies and clashing cultures of the eastern bloc and the western block, logically

who's gonna, to hold sway like who's going the dominant force for all of those things now things now that the dust has cleared away from all the battles. Yet, who is going to become the hedge among the power? Above all other power? The eastern bloc was comprised of the ussr in very soviet satellite states, so right and all of the states that you hear entering into really tents. Nato conversations in the current day, the western block was comprised of the? U s, along with NATO allies and a few other countries sprinkled in and this conflict this simmering tension. Arguably it existed beforehand in an earlier incarnation of what was known as the great game.

I have a pretty good episode on as well, and this conflict is cold. War conflict meant that while these countries were not officially of war since. italy before the end of world war, two consider world war to an end. You my enemy as my friend situation. Yes right, it's almost like there was a brief Why a team of pre existing tensions between the uk and the lesson in russia, they we don't like each other, but we're gonna hank, as we don't like that. Other guy way way way. He has the outer yeah lake. Look we're never gonna.

friends, but this guy is a real pill, frenemies yeah and so is failure. So, in the absence of all out war of any kind or physical conflicts that are just occurring on a regular basis, what you're dealing with generally are covert operations, operations that are gathering intelligence, just making sure you know what that other team is doing, while you're over here doing your thing on your side of the world yeah exactly during the cold war, both sides committed, heinous and illegal acts. There was also a golden age of state secrecy and spycraft, and I think I brought this up before, but on a work trip. Last year I got to go to the spy museum in DC and there's a whole. Section with will gadgets and stuff in the evolution of these gadgets from this period and stuff, like microphones, hidden and pans and, like you know, ways

hiding micro, dots in pieces of paper that have a really really tiny messages that have to be put into a magnifying machine to really rare, but you could like it, pages and pages of information to this tiny little desk of plastic that can be like inserted into been between pages and all kinds of tape recorders and got some of that stuff was clunky too had to go on these giant suitcases and they had remote control as they would like go up their sleeves and they can activate it. I mean now it's like all the stuff there back there I could do I my I found with a sharp you now, and the truth of the matter is that, even today, in twenty seventeen, a lot of the spies alot of operatives were on either side of this conflict. When they were caught, they were just left out in the cold. I think that was also the raised. That was used referred to that, so we will never know how many of these people this did how many survived it even to the modern day if they were

buried in the eighties. How many just disappeared in the dark ripped out appendix of your history book yeah, It's an image right in the ideas you can't expose the rest of whatever larger operation you're doing if you got an operative gets caught and you'd like to learn more about the cold war in general. You can check out some of our earlier episodes and videos on the subject. Especially the subjects, are proxy war, which arguably the middle east is embroiled in today. Correct with that in mind, lets you, then a little bit less correct. A bit of a sharper focus too, of course, quote. Taken spy craft requires a very specific set of skills, prettier out good job that yeah the golden voice frederick in some operatives, we'll specialise in certain environments right, you

I have someone who can physically look like the average member of another country or region, and you can fluently speak those languages yeah like a business person who just exists, incognito somewhere right and this this is crucial because, for instance, if you have to operatives one of whose ex fluent haitian french and looks like they could blended in Haiti and one of whom speaks fluent cantonese then and looks like they could hang out and south china. Then, of course you know right. Three where those operatives are probably going to be based. If you yeah you're a person with any brain no we're always something for her and also by yeah. If you get there

Are some operators who specialise in underwater or maritime or ocean it environments and one of the names for those people is frog been nearly always brings to mind for me? Maybe you guys here the opening sequence of John quest where there are these deeds and light skintight. You know that green diving suits and they have like those full kind of like gas masks the over their eyes and knows in hand big flippers and they ve got spear guns and re span and net kicks one of them in the head I do remember that what I always think of when I hear frogman wow, I mean it's. Not it's not far off of the frogmen is a frogmen is an individual trained in what we call tactical diet. So exactly that anyone named two very important things? You named diving equipment any named weapons,

as you might imagine, this is mostly a discipline for military and police force. Your lot of them is, there will be a explosives experts that are frogmen, because one of the things you do a lot of times in that line of work is sabotaging other ships or even like you know, places where ships are launched, even probably warlike ports in the infrastructure. That's underwater that you could attach explosives to and cause really horrible structural damage that could really things up for the enemy, yeah and another thing, that's more recent with frogmen. This was really surprising to me. It's spying. On underwater of network cables so like huge fiber optic cables and splicing in getting information out. deep underwater, like tapping into them with a device. That's pretty cool the spine,

internet. It's no joke either because, depending on the geography of those cables, cutting one voice cables we're not talking about the kind of cable, you might have a time warner, he hurt. I again info pipes essentially and cut him one could deplete internet supply an entire country. May I can cut it off The atom ology is little been uncertain. It first came as a stage name really the fearless frogman from playing in the seventies and later a guy named John Spence was an enlisted member of the. U s. Navy said that people called him frogman because he was training in a green waterproof suit. Dude. That is really cool and he was just to see to see guys can see. It is to remind yourself there's the johnny quest frogman therein. These green suits and they've got their tanks on in their masks and, like the the traditional goggles, you see, that is

It's like the quintessential frogman in my ten year old brain yeah, and I love that they're walking on land with their flippers on and everything in there their goggles still attack. Will they have just emerged, comprise johnny on the deck of a ship? Now those are the real, that's the their real face, with your help for frog in that sphere, frog frog. Personally: oh johnny cash So a one of of the other things it frogmen would tend to do. specially during world war, two times along with technology being developed for underwater travel, different kinds of transportation, in weapons. There are these things they called chariots. Will chariot was a type of these things, but there really manned torpedoes s, hands like a really bad idea, Doesn't it it's the kind of idea that the person who doesn't have to actually.

Perform it. Yeah comes up with yesterday. I guess we got this thing. It's great you're, gonna love it we'll see. okay? So in my head- and I I didn't do a deep dive into chariots are alright, but in my mind it was a way to get these frogman, who you know I have a limited amount of oxygen sure these operators to travel a lot faster, underwater whither. You know without really that's just a travel faster underwater sinning get further distances Tell me more, I mean these things were rig to equality. Does I think, I think the explosives thing came a little bit later as like? Well, why do we we ve? Are these boys going out there who? What what points to eight knots? Why don't we put a warhead at the end of that thing? You know what some british toilsome royal admiral was a site. I think we should do it and then just came in The divers were like wait. What yeah? because the technology probably existed beforehand. Just

to accelerate their speed, who know the the work I could be exploratory, but the primary Differentiation between your average every day, Jane or Joe diver diver person is that being tree being trained in tactical diary. Work means that these people- we'll be training, as he said, Matthew use of explosives, the use of survey instead makes women since stealth diving? we have a lot of former and current members of the mill, terry, who listen to the show, and we would like to hear from you on this. Because from what we understand, typically military organisations tend to describe these operators as combat divers, combat swimmers rather similar terms, and the phrase frogman seems too often be used as an informal emulation.

you know. So let us let us know, I don't want to stir the pot too much here here and want to make too big of a splash here, but I would, I would want to know. Is it your experience of your military experience? Is the term a man, a just informal thing: is it officially in the uk, with the with the royal frogmen or, and in addition to that, my second question would be either. Release stereotypes, her lottery, a lot of different branches of the military, have stereotypes about specific organisation. So now do please tell us all of that suggests. Jump us back into the cold war era where we are gonna feel actually had the excellent excellent sewed during this time in Britain and the united kingdom

there were a lot of operations that were done in Malta in a lot of these other places where there were smaller conflicts in things sure, and these these come at divers played a huge role in this. A lot of it was taking out mines that had been placed during the war of they just had to get rid of, or spying on a ship just to make sure know, what's going on with this stuff right. Is that an actual research vessel or are they up to something else? Yeah, the the royal navy was just all over this stuff at the time and a lot of I not some retired, some still active military individuals who were working during world war two and then finding jobs. Doing these kind of things, and today resuming the focus even sharper to the individual, the protagonist of our story.

Commander lionel crab, also known as buster crab buster crab, and will tell you more after a word from our sponsor This year at Ashley's anniversary sale, we were able to secure a more affordable price on the same great quality as before, and we're passing those savings on to you shop, new, lower prices on hundreds of items throughout the store and online get ready for summer, with ten percent off on all outdoor furniture, plus we're offering five years special financing with no minimum purchase, visit, your local ashley store or ashley dot com to celebrate and save today only at ashley the store, ashley dot com for details. This is kevin, castor and, if you're an avid travel like me, you ve got a download my new app otto, that's audio with a t, a! U turn I'll enjoy a new way of travelling with stories activated by your location. So when you're drunk

I've been through a new town discovering a national park or just curious about the origin of your cities. Name, you can listen to a quick three to five minutes story. covering our history from the first peoples to famous places and insides. Only locals would nome report lays new taken our past or is where fire meets flavour, starting with chicken fresh. If the grill, combined into a rich marinade of seared marine peppers and ground out g'day balanced with a splash of pineapple for the right amount of heat and finished, with fresh lime and hand, cut cilantro chipotle's new chicken, AL pastor is fire on every level only available for a limited time quarter now in the app for pick up or delivery aaa for real commander, Lionel crab aka buster crab, that's crab with two bees. Yes, I was born

On january, twenty eight nineteen o nine. He was a row Oh maybe frogmen, he was also later on a diver for em, I six as the british intelligence service. Think of them, like the cia,. here in the west of your failure that oh yeah Dave conducted numerous clandestine operations, also fairly obvious. This is not related to today's episode that they were for aiding and abetting a ring of pedophiles in the united kingdom. I feel like that things to be said when they are brought up. Ok well, well, at first, I was so so committed yeah. Look it up! If, if you have time- and you know you didn't eat recently and so commander crab received, What was called the george metal? That's after king George removing italian minds from from british warships at Malta, as we said before, so he got a king george metal. That's a huge deal

for his work. Then he also received an o b e or an officer of the order of the british empire fur again. Clearing minds, I'm in the corner and that by the way, is a knighthood, so he got he needed to his sir crown well yeah. I m in again, if we have any listeners out there that can confirm or deny that please let us know cause that's what the research looks like to us, removing moving mines. Is it's a it's always a good thing, But it's not necessarily a humanitarian thing. This might not have been to protect commercial fishermen right commercial fishing vessels. This could have been to ensure that other like free we military powers were able to traverse these these areas at Malta.

Would they do this like manually like they would do have to hitch it up to some kind of chain that would then raise it up out of these are big minds are massive. That's a great question. I could not find anything on like physically how they would remove them since I am, I was assuming they would blow them up. That, though, in my head, that's arousing the way you did a lot of I'm the way you do, mines the like landmines. There. There are ways I disable land mine by hand without exploding it, but I don't want to be the person doing that and we should do a show just on existing mind that airlines have minefields yeah. We, I would say, without having ever done, mine removal in without like about on here. I would say that there are three ways to disable it mind, while the first would be rendering the equipment non functional summer accessing it between the wires right

depending on whatever the active mechanism of the mine as at the time? The other would be has no say completely, removing it and the other would be as Matt said, blowing it. I exploding ordinances, sir out there, yet my evident I e or something I guess part of that would depend upon how come we, the mines, were monitored by the people who live there. I realise that they are crazy. Looking to their like attached to the sea floor with chains and then they're, you know at the very top of maybe like something out of Hell. laser there is lying. Orbs with the spikes- and this makes or what trigger them, really be ready at the spice, you can always misleading, that absurdly difficult. Maybe I'm just a dummy gum, pc game minesweeper like it this year You know I remember much, but I just like it was the kind of game where, like for the longest time, I just kind of clicked it and didn't really know what I was doing. I never really understood how to play it until much later, but that you know it's not really a fun game. Exactly I thought minesweeper was great. You gotta have the right man,

as is true his hand, the right mind is key to double its key double click. I used to set the difficulty on hi, you can change the density of mines, rate or the probable density minds and on the largest board if he said it on the highest highest density minds. What will happen is get your first click free it. Never let you die on the first class, and so you click the middle or where everyone and then the rules. Are you that number shows you the number of mine? that are in the hidden cells around the one you clicked one time I got to two clicks on the hardest setting knows my that was my rate is was pure adoration, student, pure accident and playing and now our hate outside our wealth. maybe the three of us still at the euro, may

the three of us not specialise in mine removal. Yes, however, this guy did it was. It was a pretty rare set of skills. There was the specific instance that built into Matt where- These soviets sent emissaries to britain right by? Was it submarine the bible I knows by ship their worships and pretty interesting apparel the this group of soviets? They were all kind of not a victory tour, but like a propaganda tour of sorts, were they and the india and a couple of their places where they had been you. They got off the ship and they were too weird and everybody was like. Oh you guys are so good If you are really beat those nazis, you guys are awesome. We still really like you guys and you're doing great things in the world, and they then they took. They took a trip to the and it was secretary nikita khrushchev and.

of these soviet prime premier, nikolai bulgarian and forgive my pronunciation there. But they came to britain in April of nineteen fifty six and they docked with their warships. Ports mouth, and that is roughly our forget. It put the seventy six miles. South west of london is where that port is. If you're looking an overall view of the uk, they spent eight full day they're in britain and their schedule included three days of talks at downing street, so talking with the big wigs in britain, the people, the movers and the shakers that stalking opposition party as well. As you know, party, that's in power, and you know all the a lot of mps, probably an influential business people. They had a dinner with the prime minister at the time who is Anthony Eden twice. They did that they visited him at checkers

I don't know what that is. This- is not the fast food restaurant shy girl that checkers I I honestly I didn't write down what that was. I just saw it and I was like okay, that sounds In this episode brought to you by checkers, but it's spelled the cold war fast food yet, but it's spelled c h: e q: u e r s so enforced, that's how they spell it, and yet in britain Meanwhile, the cia, the my six in naval intelligence, are: in the middle of this mission, placing divers. under the soviet warships, where their doktor portsmouth yanza the high it is they that whole concept of we need to know exactly what these guys are doing, where possible either going next, what they're doing while the report, while there are docked there, were

imported their like are they doing any weird stuff with underwater divers checking out our ports? So you know that it. It makes sense from a strategic standpoint and that's what they were doing. Okay, side? No, I just I can't let it ride. Although I thought her, I thought. As colleagues checkers fast, who is pretty good, getting. There were truly while the actual thing it's it short for checkers court. That's the country house of the uk The prime minister also see only when it visited at his house gazeta british camp david Kenneth torrent went to check is Let's drill down even further to a specific day april, nineteenth nineteen, fifty six itself on this date lionel bus,

The crab, was on a mission to spy on a soviet warship that was docked in Portsmouth harbour. I am not going to even attempt to pronounce the name, but just so you guys are on my side that misspell for you, it's o r d, Z, H, o n. I K I d, z, ye do with that. What you were kids tat, yeah thinks we're taking one for the deep then it was roughly seventy six miles southwest of london, the erika so yeah, and he is on a dive in the harbor men them by all accounts with monitoring the hull of ship after his dive, he was never see in resurfacing, and he never made any further contact with his handlers. For all intents and purposes, commander crab and vanished yeah, so he's

that is, you know when you go on a mission like this you've got handlers. People who are you know, setting up your mission or walking you through it you've seen twenty four, it's kind of like that in a way of there's somebody who is always on the line, who's setting things up for you and giving you intelligence as you're, gathering, more intelligence and there's a tight time frame as well. I think that's very important to note when he failed to comply with that time frame. The british admiralties stated that he was killed while working on an experimental, mind and stokes bay, a few miles away from Portsmouth harbour yeah. They said he was killed in an experimental mine. Hadn't even been in near the ship's year ended the essentially he had killed himself in an accident, but here The thing the soviet union apparently expose. This is this as this information when they

forty, that there was indeed at least one frogman that had been spotted servicing right near their ship when it was when it was doktor reported there. And then the story changes, and it was claimed that commander crab indeed examining the soviet ship. Like me, during the whole, but he was doing it without any official authority yeah. so. The story is already changing a whole lot through the official sources about what exactly is going on here again. Is that thing of let's not expose our larger operation, but then something kind of crazy happens. Yeah about six months later, on the south coast of england, someone discovers a body is hang its head, listen handlers someone's the cap,

shaded cut off the hands of the risk, and the officials say well here here the remains of commander crab and we talk a little bit about technology. The time like Matt mentions the idea of manning torpedoes, the technology of the time forensically meant that would neither head nor here and available. It was almost impossible to get a solid identification. The body nor dental records, no fingerprints. Yet none of that stuff, and already the the way that a body will change if submerged in water, for a long time. Is that something that we could? We can make a guess at right, and maybe even the type of water or maybe even the type of journey. The body took.

But that still not solid identification. No and there were no identifying marks. The examiners could find nothing unique at least any kind of scars tattoos. Anything like that and crabs. Former diving following sidney knolls identified the body. He's the one who said that's buster here so so what happened? What happened to commander crab Well, we ve got a little better idea now that it's been years and years and years since the occurrence, since we ve got you know some some reports from the intelligence offices that were carrying out the mission in which commander crab met his demise. But honestly, there are a lot of questions and will answer some imposed quite a few, more

No word from our sponsor this year and Ashley's anniversary sailed. We were able to secure more affordable price on the theme quite quality at before, and we ve passing those savings unto you shop, new, lower prices on hundreds of items throughout the store and on mine, get ready for summer with ten percent up on all outward furniture class were offering five years special financing with no minimum purchased visit, your local ashley store or actually dot com. To celebrate in favour today, only at ashley these dore actually to combat detail this is cabin castor and if you're an avid travel like me, you ve got a download my new app otto, that's audio with a T. F. You too, dial enjoy a new way of travelling with stories activated by your location. So when you're done I've been through a new town, discovering a national park or just curious about the origin of your cities. Name, you can listen to a quick three to five minutes story

covering or history from the first peoples to famous places and insides. Only locals would nome support. Lays new chicken I'll pass door is where fire meets flavour, starting with chicken fresh. got the grill combined into a rich marinated, seared, marina peppers and ground out g'day balanced with a splash of pineapple for the right amount of heat and finished, with fresh lime and hand, cut cilantro chipotle's new chicken AL pastor is five: you're on every level, only available for a limited time What are now the app for pickup or delivery chippeway for real fears? where it gets crazy. Okay, so jump way way way forward for nineteen, fifty six to the year, two thousand and six, the future. Yes, the bbc, the british broadcaster-

Corporation obtained visa freedom of information application little different from here in the united states, it's the same thing in theory, and it was a formerly secret document and it was an official report of commander crabs final mission. So what the intelligent groups had to say about it, essentially The report showed that crabs intelligence handlers didn't follow. A lot of the standard procedures that you would win going on. Have this sort specifically about protecting secrecy of what going on where people are what they're doing like the actual names of your operatives, which is that's, that's a big detail, but I want to. I want to caveat that, okay sure, because as following standard procedures could mean almost anything.

We are, and that is my phrase there are sown. Standard procedures is not what was used in in the article, those created there, but it's they didn't follow protocols, essentially that are set forth for how you how you would maintain secrecy, why if we were to speculate, would be stuff along the lines of code, creating a plausible alibi for the actual operatives. If, if they ever came into question written some, some sort of dummy up proof that you crowd was not in portsmouth. He was in no Sandwich on rights- and this is just some other guy who has an assumed name- who was there at the time who may even have identification on him? That shows he's a different person so The idea is that, through some error, whether bureaucratic or whether

whether it was a minor bureaucratic error or whether it was a complete poop show from the beginning, yeah. It started off on a bad note. They checked into a hotel he and his handlers with their actual names. That was right. There about the port of like how crazy swinging that in right, move. I know it just seems like it was set up to fail from the start, it's kind of like in not to make light of what I believe is clearly a tragic death yeah, it's kind of like in James bond films, one of the biggest plot holes, James bond films. Is that guy's always using his real name? Any says it all. The time I slowly way more often than You would, even you would say the name. like someone, you loved the ilo! and it does seem like a lot of other characters in those movies. Do use code names, maybe

it's just to show his raw bravado that it's like a. I don't need to use code, and he says I got this fish on lockdown and I'm good. Also. I want to get too far off track. Another James bond point, a ready, pretty fascinating study. where someone it went through the films and books and said just how much is this guy drinking and his liver would have been shot an erotic if you like that every day and he will probably be falling down drunk by you know, late after nearly yeah at by better had a who so more like James bless her exactly so soon. yeah it was. It was clear, then, that

no. No. We have that specific there near woefully woefully misjudge the sequence of events right? Yes, exactly and then what here's the other thing when it was clear that he had gone missing. You know we're not sure where his buddies, definitely not on the mission anymore. Annie has resurfaced. His team chose not to care. the outer full search because, as we said before, they were They were afraid of alerting the crew of the cruiser that they were looking at of lead No, that hey we're doing this, because those guys nikita khrushchev there there on a diplomatic mission. There is not supposed to be any spying going on right here. This is supposed to be a here. Shake my hand. Welcome to my country

to discuss things in russia is by the way, the the soviet official who was famously alleged to have pounded his shoe and international meetings and told the u s that he was going to crush them. Yes, alleged that probably didn't happen thereof,. Here's what's a just a jump on that ben sure. There is an article you can find. Oh man! What is it called? It's like the the disaster dinner or the fiasco dinner. I forget exactly how they phrased it, but it's all about a specific meeting with. I believe the labour party that took place during this trip and how upset and angry khrushchev was at certain things and the threats that he made. It's it's fascinating. Let's go dinner. I think the asker dinner yeah, so as soon as they found out in real time,

No, not counting the the, not counting the deceptive and completely false the C4 pr stories before even started: half cooking those up her half baking. Those They said we're not going to carry out a search. Your fees you'll see me he that guy is gone yet we don't know who he was he's gone. The prime minister himself Anthony Eaton, had no idea not only that the mission failed. They had no idea that there was a mission you for more than a little more than two weeks after the you'd think he'd be pretty grumpy, find me now wooden shoes yeah, but diana that ideas protecting him, because is actually in the room with all these guys? You know- and you know you don't want any kind of tell on his part,

if he knows I am assuming is a plausible deniability. I mean we see that happening in the us all the time with the practice of compartmentalized intelligence. Yet you know, I believe multiple presidents have been shut down for during their during their honeymoon phase with the american electorate? They say we're going to find out what really happened to J f k. We're gonna find out what really will once really going on with all these allegations of ufos and stuff and then to see like the the in the dark room in sorry, for the actual, unelected government officials that are instead appointed right mooded into these positions are often the ones

who will control access to that intelligence, and I think I think a guy's raise a great point where, when the prime minister probably probably doesn't know, but I'm just so sceptical about that stuff, when they see Did they really don't know. I know it can occur and they might not know about a specific mission. Surely there was an inkling right? Surely there was a program right in it. It had come up in it at least a buddy. Meeting with sounds like hey we're getting a lot of swimming equipment? Yes, getting, poor what's goin on the main reason number? Seventy four? Why not, prime minister? So happened with the diving part. Well, yes, if you remember that fellow MR sidney knolls he in the next year after this two thousand and six,

the whole thing and she doesn't seven. He didn't interview with the BBC's show called inside out and he stated that he had all the identified the body of commander crab, because he was quote under pressure to do so, and he suggested that that buster may have been murdered on orders by british intelligence. It was an inside job to get rid of crap, which is in seeing in its implications right but he knew something that he wasn't supposed to, or he was gonna do something that somebody unlike well in in inside out he goes sidney, goes into a little further and we ve got an excerpt that we're gonna read from that. I was going to paraphrase this love it. So sidney said that crap a very bitter and that he was also mixing with a pro soviet group of people who,

rag sidney along two parties. There were attended by the likes of double agents like anthony blunt and his ears, a pretty too to quote he said: it's either suicide, bloody russia. Yeah, that's worth crab, told sidney like if, I mean they're gonna commit suicide or I'm gonna go to russia like I'm gonna to I'm going to fact affects yes, yeah. So sir sidney really believe that, at this point, crab was going to defect so sidney alerted the intelligence services and my five and he refused to dive with crab on this second russian ship mission, the one that he was on April, nineteenth, which you know that was the whole portsmouth one in turn out this whole time. By previously, he had gone on a secret mission with crab what see to the russian worship sverige love on its visit portsmouth. So

he had been there before with crab and none before, but he had decided was a bad idea to go on this one, and he believes that oh, he wasn't there. Buster crab did not dive alone. I specifically ah sitting all said: buster told him they giving him a new body diver and then crab never returned, leading sidney to believe crab was earlier we buried the lead slightly yeah. We mentioned one person here, anthony blunts, yes, as one of the pro soviet people that city knolls believes took crab to these parties. Rape, sir anthony blunt, was for a long time. an art historian, a professor and a writer, and it wasn't until nineteen sixty four when he was offered immunity. The prosecution and confess to having been a soviet spy for aid one type from

somewhere. The nineteen thirty's to the nineteen fifties, who is a member of a group, called the cambridge five. So this was an influential short, the tremendously influential member of uk society, where the type of people who pay bubbly be immune from the kind of scrutiny or questioning that the whole polloi the peasants in the polls would encounter and just you sidney the reason why he said crabs feeling all this It's a reason that a blue I was listening right now. Might feel a bit better because he could not find a job after retiring from his official military services. He just couldn't get work anywhere, even though he put almost put in this time he had any oh done so many heroic things in been given awards, but he just couldn't find a job. Get me something:

books, you in our country they get out of the service like in it to almost like the same treatment as people getting had a prison. You, your kind of austria, sized a bit and measure treated almost like a societal pariah, most its total shaman d they form yeah. Incredibly, so especially when we consider the lack of support- and we should support we're not talking just financial support, economic support is important, but so is cultural support. Assimilation, support mental health support and well for anyone listening outside of the country in the eu where's currently we have an organisation called the veterans administration, whose job it is to have. returning military members, acclimate to society and have a civilian life. and in many this is not helpful

the goal? Jab, it doesn't matter what side of the false dichotomy people are. themselves on. In many cases, it is arguable that the veterans administration is done, a really terrible job organization. Early, it's rough, maybe a show for a different day thee, other thing about this, so we said two thousand six, that ever why report comes out not sorry still nope. It's not the whole story that he gave an interview in two thousand and seven. Then what happened next in the same year, in two thousand and seven, a retired russian diver named edward called solve claimed that he had murdered crab on that famous dive april by slicing his throat because he caught the frogman planting a mine under water while a documentary on topic? He also produced a dagger that he claimed here

in the murder? The implications of this are tremendously disturbing, because if crab was on emission planting a mine on a dramatic ship with a warship, but it's been using into the air during a diplomatic mission on a vessel like that functions, diplomatic vessel, then it's a clear act of war yet and could be considered a war crime the way that this would have changed the course of history. Had this occurred, and, what's disturbing about that is we still cannot rely. believe. If that is true, we can't reliably sus out the motive. Why would intelligence agency that, as evidence by their continuing protection of just reprehensible criminals like these people are good at keeping secrets. Why would they do

rush job with his obvious active provocation. This you know they're they're, big questions like this. culture story, brings up surviving relatives of crab do not believe culture story, one they think it's another attempt by the uk to cover up the truth and they believe That what happened was either crab willingly defected or that he was abducted and then bring rushed well- and we know just like we ve, seen or heard of read the manchurian candidate, and we we talk about allegations of this stuff with things like sir, hence her hand or have kase assassin. The big question here is whether or not this kind of brainwashing evil works, but

the unfortunate in absolutely insane truth of it is both the usa and Russia now tried it numerous ways it we're late given truth serum what about lsd, what about us deprivation? Let's see if we can take colt indoctrination tactics and apply it to people to make them do things. They would not normally do that It's a lot to out their theory that what happened to the guy is it possible, though, is it possible that he'd effect it is possible that He was killed by his own handlers. Is it possible that the that. russian forces killed him and that the two great powers involved in this decided to prevent the dominoes that would fall if this, if this stuff came out,

I've got one for you, what if he was setting up a false flag for the soviets, like as like, acting as a soviet agent to set up a mine? There would explode all its in the harbor and make it look like. It was a my six and other intelligence services committing an act of war. Interesting to what end, yet spark all out war to heat the cold war era. The sounds do I'm nuts I'm not saying anything about being true to something else. Ruminating on last night, but that's very interesting. I hadn't thought that angle what's a surprising when, but it's not it. The outside the realm of plausibility. what is known as the realm of possibility and in this house brings us to a really important point a lot of times, especially now this. How does this applied? only seventy well yeah player, modern age, a water

What we see public figures, whether they are elected officials, whether they are due taters, whether they are ministers in something anybody in the geo political arena is on some level performing to give three different types of shows. If we think of is being performed, there's one show performed for the domestic population, the voters, the average citizens the oppressed whomever and that is tippit. they're, going to be nationalistic, typically going to be something about our enemies to keep people motivated by fear, ripe and then the same people have what they say: The international sphere sometimes those messages might seem contradictory to the domestic population should they are not really broadcast the stuff that,

whichever country live in the stuff that your leader is saying, when it's not being recorded two groups, of other leaders is poor. probably not the same stuff in with a few notable exceptions, is probably not the seams after telling you when they want you to. For them when I want it's not complaining about internet censorship or the appeal. The of minorities and the thermal, the third one this so weird. I didn't learn about this for a long time, but the third one is: let's say that Matt, You are the leader of country, a you know, you're the leader of country b, the pop Patients have country, a country, be have historically hated one another right, and what happens then, is that when your first round of theatre You, the leader of country, Udall of country b, will tell your local populations. You know, ah forget cunt,

the aid there, the worse they smell all their threatening us there taken all the resources ultra all those people in country be they use, we too many doubly batteries. Out of you has noticed, you does notice it and, let's say, let's say that one of you just recently got elected element suit you're espousing spouse in all this. The word you often here used is provocative language ripe, domestically making We statements internationally the kind of see the same thing but tilted in a way to get other people other countries on your side. One countries see through z too, like country air be better, but when the two of you meet on private phone calls, person, you become a lot more like people trying to go. She ate a car, sale or people trying to negotiate a transaction near which means will say stuff like

well, you know. I know that we have our differences, the poor He is leader you I didn't like him, then I tried out rightly I'm someone you can work with and so shears but I need- and it becomes sort of a quid pro quo situation where in it do people that publicly claim to hate each other on behalf of millions of other people getting room together and one of them says well, you know I'm I'm I'm looking for I have a better gaslight and the other one says: well, you can't get the gas line until I can get some of the sanctions dropped. Then you know what I think. I think we can work on. The and the next thing you know they ve shake hands. They have these continue. They have very different owns in there in their one on one interactions, whether actually doing stuff, and then

performance of interactions where they're just sort of garnering support. The recent fairly recent iran deal comes to mind just when thinking about something like that when getting something very complicated out of two countries that make those kinds of statements, and then it just becomes more complicated when there are multiple countries involved. I know that's a little bit of a rant, but I think it is important for us to clearly us. Abolish that way. What you're seen if you? If you look into these sorts of events or any events, geopolitical implications is you're, seeing different snatches of three very different conversations and you have to. And a triangulate the truth between the now some some world leaders. It is true, have always add these same the same message in all three conversations

and other world leaders are particularly ended at you know them there they get in at one or one situation and they like wait white. You meant all that questions. I thought you were saying it's weird world in which we live, and that's one of the reasons that. We still don't know what happened to commander crap here, but we do know that the danger, the threat of these ghosts, combat divers of fraud. the man it still exists is very much real right now and d. They could be used in the modern day to scout defenses for future emissions. They could take and leave equipment in places that will be used later. They can place microphones and you can determine all kinds of things underwater. If you have really good mike's you can you can figure what ships are doing, where they're going, how much fuel

they're using you can even listen to the noises of crew like if you're listening to submarines, which is crazy to think about the fiber optic umbilical lines we mentioned before this huge fibre optic wires and they can be tapped. Navy pier's can also use wireless connection systems and those signals can can be used to do or I guess these divers can intercept those signals if they wanted to from the water. The only thing with the though you get a break all kinds of crazy encryption from the military. But you know if you are also a military force, you can probably do it in two degree. This is well to an extreme degree. This is changing with the use of modern technology. You'll hear a lot of pundits

experts- tell you that the new air, most important sphere of warfare and therefore spycraft is information. Collection and spycraft to a degree has always been about information collection. Overwhelmingly. This doesn't mean that the old wet work stuff, the old physically putting a person in the room has stopped existing. You know for instance with stuxnet, the programme used most likely by the: u s and Israel to disrupt Iran's nuclear, enrichment activities yeah that that virus had to physically be put into that system because their new countries,

going to, while IRAN at least is not going to be foolish enough to have online access to nuclear nuclear, regiment facilities, so no matter how how for technology evolves at this point until we're superhuman android operatives that can until we have robots that can pass for human rights are still going to have physical people travelling into a place, and this means that, as we record today, nobody it. How many people were how many missions similar to this are actively happening at ports all the world and is in the middle of the sea somewhere being you know these guys being deployed to go check out a ship in the south trying to see the frog man Cometh the raymond

as I googled, diego garcia, the ass some time. Sir, that's an interesting rabbit, hole, and with that for now we conclude the story of commander Crabb. We will update it if we learn Whether any of these and in these conclusions have become the and arguable truth absolutely, but this does not end. our show we want, we want to hear from you do think. These operations are relatively rare in the modern day and by these operations we mean stuff that occurs with absolute deniability, yes stuff, that the president of a country or the prime minister of a country doesn't know about on purpose: are they rare? Are they

where common, are they less common? We want to hear from you and that reminds us it's time for shahada gonna ask our first shot out comes from the captain. He says hi guys, I'm a big fan of friend of mine recently introduced your podcast to me as listening to your gulin movement episode, which was great. I had no idea. There was anything like that, potentially involved with the failed coup. You were asking about the definition of a social movement and I have a definite for you from my college, glass on social movement, rhetoric, perfect convenience a social movement, must meet the following criteria? It must be an organised collectivity. I'd must be an uninstall. Touche analyzed collect activity- and I just say no air who had to look up collectivity was that we heard it in collective collectivity as individuals,

who are considered as a whole group, an example, would be a gathering of all the people in a town sucker moving on. It must also be large enough and propose or oppose some kind of change, just adele, then a little bit for clarity and organised collectivity is fairly straightforward. A movement some kind of organization to make things happen. Think social movement organizations like black last matter or the tea party asked for an institutional ized. A social me at least when it starts, is generally made up of outsiders and thus cannot be made up of corporations or governed, to be large enough, a social movement simply needs to reach the size it needs to affect the change it proposes or opposes. Finally propose or oppose change is fairly obvious on its face, There may be a few different definitions and I'm pulling for my class notes, so I cannot give you any but yeah.

That's how you define that was, isn't that nice of the kind and great captain here where we really we and the captain made it happen. That's right is really cool. But you don't think about it that much and send us that much details that we really appreciate yeah. Thank you. So much as thinks he's writing to his captain who's next. Well. Next, we have mister b and mister b is not a listener. Well, he very well could be, but who knows how do you know he's got no, he had a very the interesting monday, this past october. Second, I know about this guy. Ok, yes, this is an article that was sent to us by our friend me our best friend of our complaint apartment, yeah, Jonathan Strickland, and I just going to red part of this article, it's from a k to radio. Here we go a cast

Man claiming to be from the future has been arrested for having too much to drink in the present stone, cold awesome, leading line that casper police office say at around ten thirty p m on Monday october. Second, they were despatched to residence on east second street, for a man who is stating he was from the future and he was there to help people. They found mister the who claimed that he was from the year twenty forty eight and he was trying to warn the people of casper that aliens were coming next year and they should leave as soon as possible the people not the early. He added that he wanted to speak to the president of the town, boy boys, when it presents its way less commitment. The president of the country, only mister be told. the least that the only way he was able to time travel was have aliens fill his body with alcohol and have stand on a giant pad which

transported him to twenty seventeen, but ended up in the wrong year. It was supposed to be twenty eighteen. I think we can ended there. They are, they determine that mr be could not take care of himself. Andy was causing a disturbance, so they took him in He added yet early breath sample showing a blood alcohol content of point one three six, so he was definitely filled with alcohol and trying to time treble but hey who's to say mister b wasn't a time traveler come on, maybe that's how aliens operate right, who's to say, and we hope he is well. I hope his mission goes well yeah. You know. Maybe he is prophetic, we'll see what happens and eighteen and of course we want to thank Jonathan strickland for writing to us. Jonathan Strickland is available for any questions, comments or concerns about our show twenty four hours a day, seven

days a week, Jonathan strickland how stuff works, dot, com and this concludes, but not our shoe weakened as the end of this classic episode. If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can get into contact with us. a number of different ways. One of the best just to give us a call, our number is one. Eight three: three s: t d, w Y t k- if you don't want to do that, you can send us a good, a fashioned email. We are conspiracy. At I heart radio, dot, com, stuff They don't want. You to know is the production of iheart radio for more podcast. From my heart radio visit the I hurt, radio, app apple podcast or wherever you listen, your favorite shows this is Kevin costs and, if you We now have a traveller like me. You ve got a download my new app otto, that's audio with a two, a you the ilo enjoy a new way of travelling with stories activated by your location. So when you're done

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