No one is reading your mind but hp, instant, ink, when you're printers running low, incense, nuke judges before you run out. So you never have to think about ink for details, visit, hp, dot mom, slash, instant ink conditions apply this episode of they don't want you to know is brought you by Dell Del. Semi annual sale is the perfect time to power a productivity and gaming victories. Now you can save. Would del employees save on high performance tech, save seventeen percent, on the latest Ex PS, an alien where computers with Intel CORE processors plus check out exclusive savings are Dell monitors, headsets and excessive for greater immersion in all. You do up great today by calling eight hundred by Dell again, that's eight hundred by Dell or you can visit del dot com site hush semi annual sale, Matt back in the day you you and I got pretty pretty weirded out by this one is Sony

hacked and we had to we. We were lucky enough to be able to ask our our colleague, friend in the show text of host and creator. Jonathan Strickland, talk a little bit more about what Billy went out with the Sony hack and you it's interesting, I think, having Jonathan on is why this became a two part hawaiian. Why? Why do you say that because we Esther man, he had a lot to cover. Yet elastic cover, there's so much ground to cover year gone exactly how the hell happened. What the heck is, why you know what the allegations are of, why it occurred, and how does it have to do with this? Weird movie called the interview. does Ebay. Remember that movie, I pretty sure you can watch it right now. If you want to honour streaming service, yet we'd recommended Check out the movie to see will see why I watched the interview entirely because of this episode and a hundred percent. Why watched it as well

also suffer Rogan has special place, my heart, from your phone to ghosts and government cover ups histories with unexplained events. You can turn back now learn the stuff. You don't want a low ladies and gentlemen, and then we get our super producer. Knoll is always on the ones in Toulouse, but that's not all right. There. We got mad, I'm the guy who's here who listens mostly, and sometimes bills in, but we got one other person, then yes, our very special guest, ladies and gentlemen, give it up I'll kill you our class if you're not place recant club, you shouldn't be there anyway, anyhow club, an cheer for our friend, special guess, resident tech, expert and host of numerous house off work shows Jonathan Strickland, hey as it is applied to be on the show I of the show. I am so glad to beyond the show your

starting my voice. Right sure. Ok, I know you said my name so clearly. My identity is already out there, but I didn't when we feel a little more. You know comfortable sure, yes, yeah now the reason we have drawn up on the show yeah, I'm dying to hear this. You are our tech expert under the guy that then I go to when we ve got something pressing recovering something that Europe had heavy yeah sure, because you know your stuff buddy. I follow. I follow the Tec NEWS, that's right line into hey we're covering something really taken Ok, the hack attacks were perpetrated against Sony entertainment. Most recently, not the two thousand eleven attack has or the attacks on the Sunni. Now the position that word right or any other ones like you were mentioning the Microsoft Europe and Europe in particular,

ones on Sony pictures, entertainment, because it has had some weird Lee, far reaching consequences gap and we're just gonna go over. I dont need to this. the waiver, we're just gonna, go over a kind of a time of events and just kind of look at what happened, what we know so far cheer The effects of sounds great yeah. I I have followed the sun story acquainted and I am interested to hear what you guys have to think about this. This is a big one right. a big story from multiple reasons, not just the extent of the attack which I'm sure you guys will get into. But all like you, were saying mad. The consequences of that attack, how it's it's affecting every thing from visit decisions which you might call draconian are cold hearted, depending upon your perspective, sure it's. It's really opened up yet another ah avenue

or the criticism of unequal compensation in the work place. This is something that has been seen throughout two thousand fourteen in the tech sector and elsewhere. there are a lot of themes that are all wrapped up in this one story. So thank you very much for having me on for this one. Are you kidding I know I'm not going, are you kidding, I would say, hey North Korea bring it on. I am getting we'll technically. the name of North Korea, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a country that slightly smaller than Mississippi. South Korea is actually a lot but smaller the North Korea, but as double the population. If you have watched the new in the past few years, then you probably know more three as the thing that pops up with a some kind of bellicose, hyperbolic threat about

raining fire and downright their nuclear? Their nuclear work is something they garnered alive attention here in the West IA and also they have a habit of doing things like missile test swelled. Perhaps there are other things going on in the Pacific area MA. Am also. I any see this kind of increase in. I guess we as almost like showmanship? It's it's, not quite aggression, its colonel, very cold war era, kind of stuff where North Korea will put on a demonstration and then the United States will hold war games in that area in that region or North Korea will warn against war games and then after they happened, then put on a demonstration in so it a very odd sort of almost cart, finish relationship here. Leggy. If you were to explain this to someone who had no knowledge about relations, North Korea and the rest, the world. They would think you were talking.

Whilst some sort of fantasy novel sure doctors who spoke, maybe because I warn interesting fact that some people dont know that North Korea never officially made peace after what is known as the free and war in the west. There is a cease fire which holds, which is why we have a DMZ, which is a lovely little spot, I would firstly actually on the korean peninsula. We sail this just to say that it is and has been since the clothes of war, a remarkably tense situation between most of the rest of the world, and the world's only Patrick lineal Communist dictatorship right. I think I think now I think North Korea and China are economic bodies right, but really much. No one else: yeah and I did you- know trivia, one of the world's most dangerous golf courses butts up against the DMZ I do not want to knock the board about Sow the oft has three games or which were

interesting. You thought the ones in Florida with alligators were badly and I really want to know the rules extending rules for if ball goes a pass. This point now you just, call it out of bounds the play it again. Is there just a stack of balls, then? Besides, I I don't know anymore dialogue. Not areas are given the hacking, so yeah, so funny thing happens. June. Eleventh, two thousand fourteen wealth funny maybe depends on your taste in comedy. What are we talking about the time other trailer for the film the interview, which is a thrill restoring several again and and what's his face, the Franco Right, jelly the premise of the film is that you ve got. A celebrity talk, show host guy, He has he does the show words. Essentially, he sits down with other like celebrities and has a conversation with a very fluffy stuff and in his producer, is about to dump him

to go. Do bigger, better things when they get Word that Kim Jong noon. The current leader of North Korea is a huge fan of the show and one from the common interview him and allows James Franco's character, who's the host to hold on to South Rogan, whose his producer and over there. Meanwhile, they are contacted by the United States and told haywire over there, if you could just do as a solid and kill Kim Jong, even by your their dad be great then hilarity is supposed to ensue right in theory. This is a comedy, just interesting to be here. I was listening to Howard stern Interview with suffer urban and he Does he wrote it are corroded, I guess, and the saying that it was initially must begin Jong IL was the matter, guy that years ago, assassinate, but when he died, they changed it over, and so, when we move forward to June twentieth of twenty four

here we starts in some signals from the north korean government is now right: yeah there's a reaction from north korean official. I dont want to. which his name so I'll. Tell you how much it ok, Kitten Mountjoy, enjoy yeah young joy that was John at their well Kim Young Choi says this is a quote, there is a special irony in this story line as it shows the desperation of the: U S: government, an american society, a film about the assassin. Of a foreign leader mirrors what the? U S has done in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Ukraine, and let us not forget who killed Kennedy, a man. Ricans, strong words from North Korea, yet in this is what kind of the norm for their diplomatic told at an interesting way of putting it. Yes, their diplomatic town there

romantic, which is sometimes lacks diplomacy, but yes, so this is not. As you have said in these wonderful note, is not the first time the north korean government played a part of antagonist in a Hollywood fell near. There were several others: the resurgence bond movie where North Korea, I guess, was the bad guy and then You said there, America, which stole my favorite movies NEA: and then there's that remake of red dawn, which I still have not seen well an interesting thing. There was that the original villains and red downward to be China, but the decision was made to switch China to North Korea and, of course, for the reason that everyone suspect money. Yeah China is an enormous market for United States films, but if they were to make China the bad guy that endangered that entire market plus there's this incredibly insist

U S, relationship with Hollywood in Beijing that right we could go into, but it did not really relevant here bay rate. North Korea became the bad guys in that film because of that, and so this precedent ugh exist on both sides but by July of twenty fourteen we have ignored, free and ambassador to the. U N, jostle numb writing to ban Ki Moon who were, as you know, is the south korean ahead of the U n at this time, and I he makes the north korean about her. Those makes a really great point in the following points.

Asian to allow the production and distribution of such a film on the assassination of an incumbent head of a sovereign state should be regarded as the most undisguised sponsoring of terrorism, as well as an act of war. The United States authorities should take immediate and appropriate actions to ban the production and distribution of the aforementioned film, otherwise it will be fully responsible for encouraging and sponsoring terrorism now. Clearly, if the states government did engaging things, that would immediately be a case of censorship. The United States. We generally consider to be something were not supposed engaging on a governmental level, writers and let us also not forget the west is to so many parity films, sure the things that have been dying on film, Finally, every single president itself, or maybe Harding his career to really take off now, but man

the fun we had would Taft. Finally, we still have you what's so well, I guess what we are saying is that there is a degree of perception at play here. You don't remember when bore out now. This was not a. U s. Familiar brat came out right. Kazakhstan was not happy with the way that the cosmic people were portrayed sure which makes sense, but they didn't threaten more. They didn't call it terrorism, but writer also this point here is really interesting. Is this a situation where there is a definite wronger right or is this opinion? I think it's all strongly call it an active terrorism. Well, I do too but then again we live in a country where we have entertainment, where president's have been assassinated as part of the story, in other words, the death of a president film or twenty four the ushers had that happen. I man, ok and say what season

carry their lives there like a milky way since twenty five, you haven't seen twenty four and twenty. where is an active sitting president like that, is actually really sitting assassinate: it is actually standing at the time. A so ok is it for, go bomber, no now there's a figure nor as a fucking, although president, but we're talking about in an actual wars as human beings that is in office, ok, yeah, sure, sewers, there is an international well, a national, cry from another nation of that this film we don't want. This go for. It is essentially one or three saying- and I No really, what the I can't say at least what the pressures were, at least from our government or from the U N or anything on Sony to sense of the film. In any way if any at all We do know that the theatrical

LISA. The interview got pushed back from October two December, twenty fifth Christmas day, right, not long after this a little less than a month after this is officially pushed back, now here's words. A little interesting to me. Do there were official at its going on at so of the film where they were digital. Changing the buttons there were worn by the north korean soldiers, because they were actually showing. The boy there are worn in reality by north korean soldiers. That comment Kim Jong, IL and Kim Jong Goon and Sony was officially stating that these buttons were a clearance problem, why there were changing them, but it was known that this was a kind of blasphemy to show this on film I at least to North Koreans. We note North Korea's view, while short, because even the

the culture of North Korea. The leaders are exalted deified, even man died. You ve seen some of the interviews, your documentaries about this. I've been fastening with North Korea for a long time So stop me. If I start taking my irrelevant stuff, please keep you guys you to know. I saw Are practices that might very strange to people from outside of this culture, such as your? We have this old picture of Nikola Tesla here in the studio right yeah. I Eve, He were in O Kim Jong IL or Kimmel Song, and we were North Korea. We would have a picture like that in every house and would also have a button that everyone has to so it is. It is a really really big deal and Sony was probably smart to alter them, but I dont think that shit just how a fence if it would still be right. Yeah, I mean its colleagues saying the to me is the same

seeing as as leading up to, but not saying a curse. Word right. You don't say it, but the people. Who here you know what you were intending and they think it anyway. So the Alex somehow that that that of exonerating. You of offending other people know that doesn't because actually, what you ve done is made. The other person do the work for you nicely Louis. He came as a great bit about that. You just put it in my head, so so it's the same sort of thing right dealing here. You see it even if you know what's been altered, you know what the original intent was in. So it's not like that somehow magically erases, the intent there was also. The the story about how and here's a spoiler alert her anyway, who plans to see the interview, because breaking news. There are the places where you might actually get a chance to do that. But spoiler, or there is a scene in the. movie in which the leader Kim Jong Une is actually killed at its

I believe these in a helicopter that has struck by a very powerful explosive thumb, forgetting ground, the airlines like a tank round, and so then there is sequence of Kim Jong dying by being blown up. slow motion and that one the things we learned as well- out of all the suffer about to talk about is that there was a whole series of changes that were dictated by the Bye Sony due date? A clever you have some work to South Rogan who very clearly was getting exam spread and while the changes toward the end of it to make it less and less graphic so watering down and has, as we know, As you probably know, two listeners after one people attempt to make those kids series of compromises. What the inner doing is making something they didn't want to make in the beginning, I feel like I'm just playing the inner

dear guy, this whole thing, I'm sorry, but we We do need to take a break just for a moment to hear word from our sponsor, so we will be right back. This episode us if they don't want you to know, is brought to you by lifelike. Remember the saying: if you love something set it free yeah. That's what if it doesn't come back to you, it was never years to begin with. I was a little confused by that, but if people do say it now, when it comes to your identity, the folks at lifelong are calling bs yeah, all those nights working overtime, saving up all that chatter paid. if all that debt now some identity thief, wants to try and set it free, they say that's great talk- and you know what we agree- yeah and that's why

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Eligible and enroll, today, hp, dot, com, slash instant ink conditions apply, so we know that it is retroactively, revealed round November, twenty first, that some top execs it Sonys are getting these emails with a ransom request, pretty much rain yeah. It was something madly executives intake very seriously. I guess because this was a couple days before the big hit. occurred in Europe and of disconnect served from one of veal alleged emails. It said noticed disowning cheers entertainment. We ve got great damage by Sony pictures the compensation for a moment, Harry Compensation, we want pay the damage or

many pictures will be bombarded as a whole and in November twenty fourth sources, Sony go public with the hack they have been hacked by a group called guardians of peace. or GEO P, but a different one, also another reference to anyway will get into Asia and you can find screen grabs of an allegedly hat Sony Terminal Online Scare, Red Skelton background, the fall, Mrs Johnson, could you do this sharrkan evil voice warning We ve already warned you, and this is just the beginning, We continue to our request, be met we obtain, and all your internal data, including your secrets and top secrets. If you dont obey, will release data shown below to the world determine what you do till November, the twenty fourth eleven o clock p m J empty

great- and rather they I'm glad they put the grinage meantime there. Yes, I could really been right even been like what would you like a specific time? We got some debt, we get some time as you had to have allowed a communication. Russia is important and then below that there were five links to, I guess very topsecret material in secret Material Brighton. that, some of which has subsequently been leaked, but not necessarily all of it right back. We there still. There are still a couple of still couple cards up the sleeve, perhaps even a dead man. And the kind of thing going on. Yes, so the guardians of peace described themselves as an international organisation, including famous figures in the politics and society from several nations such as the United States, United Kingdom and France. We are not under the direction of any state the important thing to point out because

you might be thinking hey. You guys been an awful lot of time talking about North Korea, energy or the beginning of the third. I asked her here I mean possibly too much time because Jonathan was show I'm known as the talky one yeah. This is. This is also important because, obviously, if you ve been following the story at all, you know that there had later been some nations made that North Korea was at least in part, if not wholly behind these attacks and these allegations came from Uncle SAM and that, in fact, the impetus for the attacks in the first place was specifically because of this man We talked about the interview. However, if you ve been paying attention to the messages we ve been reading, you'll notice that there has been no mention of the interview. So far you mention you'll notice. A couple of and also one of them, is that the English on these statements at least the grammar right, isn't that great, but it all

doesn't necessarily seem to be the same kind of stilted English that we tend to see him what communications from places like North Korea right. We do know, however, that a lot of information was leaks while December. First, if you could just now, you talk a little bit about this untaxed, rare ok, so if you guys did you details some of the information. Ok yeah. I was busy big, so that we all don't also get attacked by sure. Why we, first of all my heart, goes out to amuse, say what you will about any large company or whatever, but I dont wish any one to have suffered the kind of huge set backs that Sony Pictures has right my opinions of their movies notwithstanding, I dont, wish them harm. So some other

I'm not a big fan of Alonso any pleasure. Look just released Spiderman backed Marvel. That's all I'm saying anyway, so they d had several films stolen from them, they had an essentially in screener format. Thus, greenery are the kind of movies that movie studio will send out two too Finally, two members of say the academy sure the producers build right is the idea that there's their certain communities that the sea there so that they can end up nominee doing it for an award or voting for it or whatever and These were clearly coming from this source because they still had watermarks on screen or watermarks. So you wasn't like a clean copy of the movie. I had this overland up, but These were movies that included once it had not yet been released. Those fury which had already come out and Annie, which had not come out and a few others, and so

those very high profile. But then there was just times of information. They got released as well, some It was merely embarrassing things like a list internal communications between employees that ended up revealing some very personal opinions about the direction of the company. I think Angelina Jolie is a bad actor. I think we need to stop making Adam Sandler movies. You know, George Clooney wrote me a really nice email here or in theirs himself about the president. Our young people had to apologize. Formerly I were and then beyond their beyond just the internal communications. We started getting information about things like executive salaries and that's where we really saw the disparity between people of sir. Races engenders like white men and then everybody else so as as you, noted here met. We

don't want to exacerbate the situation, will go into too much further detail, a view, more information about the specific content of these leaks. You can fly and it online I mean everyone every made everywhere? Let has been scouring of sheriff and in my opinion. I it's really weird- will talk about this, maybe a little later the the journalist view of them. like what what is really newsworthy about these specific leaked information and be talking about it in that kind of specific yeah hugging it well I mean there. There's there four layers right, there's the layer of the hack itself. Newsworthy and needs to be talked about. Writing do BBC guardian. Yes, Europe, an and that needs to be taught well, because not only is the news worthy event, but it's something that should alert other companies to say we really do need to take a serious look at our. Our cyber security

Yeah right will need the really look at that, and we know that cyber security or site. Attacks have been on the rise globally. The United States and China are, as we speak, engage any really weird great game online Noah, including a game where we discover things like chinese code: that's embedded, deepen: U S, infrastructure, that's usually industry, and so the others that parts newsworthy there's another layer. That's something that investigative Journalists would normally go after things like this disparity in pay. No less that something, then investigative journalist, look into and want to try them is another story right off, but the the this information was revealed, does raise some ethical issues that are really murky. These are not easy questions to answer and in fact it I think the pin upon the outlet. Some of them, are really engaged in schadenfreude right there. Just

especially the ones about the Adam Sandler quote, quotes the things value given solely kids. Did Adam Sandler movies Something really funny about that. I laughed when I read it to, but at the same time you think about like well, that's gonna, crappy thing that report on. I know that I wouldn't have done it myself. If I had about it probably would have no might have felt better about later I've. I've actually start saying horrible things about our coworkers and email yeah. I just say it straight to their haste. I just sort of yellow. We have an open office plants. I think we'll get the message I ever since I stopped calling people. Eriksson just refer to them as Josh. He certainly gotten them as yet. We're gonna macaroni picture of you guys guys Christmas really gets into the whistle blower territory. Ryanair them. You know really made me question deeply: some of my beliefs.

I'll whistleblowers and information that I feel is important to be sure, serves. You know when you have that moral conundrum of managing other people need to know your responsibility in I gotta tell ya as it's it's her brain little, but I like it. I don't think I don't think this is quite the same as well. Whistle blowing outside of the systemic policy problems there that kind of inequality in pay can have, but What we know that's interesting here is that December. Second, just this past month, the Federal Bureau of Investigation their officially looking into North Korea for doing this, and I don't know about you guys, yeah, but one Movie is kind of flimsy for state sponsored half of this magnitude. Sure I am not saying it wasn't them, but I'm saying if it is blessed gee. Hey guys, I ran really sorry. I hate interrupts Jonathan

I hate you and me too, I know look we're. we're going along here. Would you guys mind if we split this up in the two? Ok, let's Indaba cliffhanger, usually we do the email address, but let's lets you a cliffhanger dazzling get people set up. Reports, ok took a totally was in North Korea was what someone inside so neither to find out you at least have to listen to. Poor to tender done, don't undone turns out. I was gonna, be selfish, take so much guys tuna next week and ass the of this classic episode. If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can get into contact with us number of different ways, one of the best, to give us a call or numbers one. Eight, three, three std w. I t k if you want to do that, you can send us a good fashioned email. We are concerned

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