Hi there I'm sack wrath and I'm gonna phase on we're real life best friends. We met playing fake life, best friends, Turk and JD on the sitcoms grubs. Twenty years later, we ve decided to re watch the series one have pursued at a time and put our memories into a pod cast. You can listen to it home, we're gonna, get all our special guess. Friends, like sour chalk, John C Mckinley meal Flynn, Judy raise show create a bill. Lords editors, writers and even prop masters would tell us about what inspired the serious and how we became a family. You can listen to the pond cast fake doctors, real friends with Second Donald on the high heart radioactive apple podcast, and wherever you get your mind CAS guys, it's o Brien, CO, founder of crack dot com and I host a twice daily news and culture podcast with

on his person. I know miles gray what an it, what an owner always tell you, how much more about how hilarious don't tell them about my background in politics as a political operative or anything like that, just keep going on about the fun. I wasn't going to ok, that's guys, you can come get caught up on what is happening without feeling the life train out of your soul. At the dailies, Ike Iced, you find us on the Iheart Radio, app apple pie, CAS or wherever fine particles are given away for free,

from you at those two psychic powers and government conspiracies history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff. They don't want you to know hello and welcome to the show. My name is no, and our compatriots met is actually on vacation, but will be returning soon. In the meantime they call be. Then we are joined with our super producer, Paul mission, control, deck and, most importantly, you or you you are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know today is one of those, the more you no kind of episodes it real It really is on the surface on on the Nonestic frictionless surface. It may sound a little bit mundane.

We have uncovered a tale is decades in the making improve, disturbing this. The story starts in in the time of the ancient Greeks, really if you think about it the Mycenaean. Greeks has dragged back in the old days. For me, of human history. Anybody who cooked something struggle to make cook where that wasn't a huge pain in the keystone to clean here which no secret, even today, that certain stuffs, can be pretty messy and leave difficult stains arrest due on parts or pants late, for instance, have you ever roasted thing and then realized you know I have to this taste good because I'm going to spend some time afterwards, just scrubbing the act out at once. What tinfoil? As for my man, yet not only for hats right there, we go that's wealth and yet tenfold.

It is an excellent example of how we have Wall Street Oh geez and technologies. To combat this. You know it's not even unfortunate, just an inconvenient reality of cooking. I'm glad you brought up the ancient Mycenaean. Greeks, because they aware of this residue problem and more than three, Two thousand years ago, the appear to have invented a very clever type of ceramic griddle that function kind of like Non stick cooking surface, some but not through chemistry, was through texture and craftsmanship ran yeah herself. So here's the deal these griddle that they invented had a smooth side. An aside, I was kind of poorest covered with these tiny holes and They were using it to grill bread and bread was probably placed on the side with the holes, because the dough would stick if it was a completely flat

surface and they were doomed has been ours, scrubbing away this bread residue, but if they had the little pours, then it would kind of vent. Little bit and it would create a surface of the brain less likely to stick to gear right. It's some pretty cool Macgyver in there and sadly, it didn't catch on the rest of the world was stuck spending hours and hours scrubbing away on ordinary pots, pans and other cooking surfaces, so your mind, conspiracy, realist, go ahead in cue. The image of a scullery made scraping out the bottom of a huge soup pot. I was me last night that was you last night on wages and rice and rice. If you let it go a little too long and he let it similar to other becomes this like sticky kind of crusty layer on the bottom. Yet you then have to silken and give it up, but the bottom, the right crust tease, Delicious, really fan of better. Yet, let's, cut, pass that image.

Scullery made and go to a despairing tv infomercial host lets him hatchet let's imagine this scullery made at the beginning of a infomercial if they had those in the middle ages, throwing their hands and wailing there's got to be a better way. There has to be its here or there this situation began to change in nineteen thirty, eight, when a chemist Roy Plug, it invented something called power tat of ethylene or p t F, p p if he is a type Adam backbone. There are hundreds known as things and Polly, flew alcohol substances or p f s. Without going too far into the weeds on the chemistry here, Pfc encompass in entire family of synthetic chemicals that have one thing in common. They contain a carbon an Florin Adam backbone

There are hundreds of these things out there, hundreds of known Pierre compounds and they have varying functional groups. They can include other elements as well, such as oxygen, hydrogen or sulphur. Day. We call the stuff that Roy discovered, tough line, We accidently invented the substance, but he quickly realized at a number of unique properties. First, it had high corrosion resistance, meaning its less likely to degrades rust, so important, because when you're repeatedly using this cook, where I neer washing at rest is likely to develop exactly very important that you have some kind of safeguard against, or else you gotta keep switching at your reports and this also had the lowest coefficient of friction of any.

Since TAT had ever been manufactured before no eyes this important ban. This is interesting to me because it makes it slick. You know what I mean things just intended not to stick to it. This This is something we associate with cooking today. Originally it had a much different use. Yeah. Initially it was used to strengthen seals. That would be not seals. Like our morbid seals, like you know, seals like going our two tightened Thank them. These seals that would be specifically exposed to uranium hex of fluoride gas during the development of the a bomb in world war, two strongly enough. It was considered a military secret, so tough one before is called, have won. The actual substance was top secret, whose classified the. U S: government Uncle Salmon Du Pont we want the rest of the world to know about this technology do pint

actually didn't register the Teflon trademark until nineteen forty four when they began, planning for commercial applications after the end of the war, they said, you know, we paid our dues been build the atom bomb, but it's kind of a niece market, so we probably want to diversify away. I would add that have another time with this government stuff, it starts out for a very specific use than they realize. Okay, we can now let this out to the public and make a little make little cash nicholas Rochester Soup scratches brother poor words were talking tough line strip by nineteen. Fifty one hundred and Dupont had figured out uses for tough line in large, scale, bread and cookie, making we say large scale, Breton Cookie, making what we mean is the industrial level stuff yeah. You know not not moment shop, but it big bread, yeah, big cookie, big brother big cookie. Exactly but

the initially avoided marketing teflon in consumer cook where, because they were concerned internally over, possible health risk they publicize this they just said: let's not do it yet the credit for the test on revolution, belongs mostly to a guy named John Gilbert. While John Guilder was working Du Pont, he realized he Teflon. And can be used to coat the average part in PAN and Just one year later there was a french engineer who was experimenting with using Teflon Dakota fishing gear, because it was so frictionless that it reduced the likelihood of the gear tingling up interesting and that all he thought about, but his wife said he looks like it worked for fishing gear. Why don't we coat out pots and pans in the same stuff. The idea was a success in nineteen:

before they were granted a patent from the french government and they formed a company called tough, all tee If a l in nineteen fifty six and so now a days there are other types of non stick coating, but teflon remains them well no, I mean it's a household name and it has tons of applications from coding cables to providing corrosion resistance to industrial equipment, but the still most widely known use the power Look is aware of is that this stop it helps you keep from having scrub, your pots and pans for hours at a time right right. There is one small problem:

not only can this stuff be dangerous, surprisingly so, but it turns out that the manufacturers of tough line and related substances in the ingredients of TAT long knew about the dangers they decided. The prophets outweigh the risk and they covered up these dangers for, at the very least decades, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. In a world where everyone is confined to their homes. Society begins its largest, been watch to date in the hallowed library of Hulu or perhaps on a shelf of dvds. You haven't looked at in a decade, is a show that perfectly encapsulates life in the early arts and launched a friendship evidence fire millions. I I'm sorry and I'm Donald phasing in two thousand one. We start in scrub sitcom that revealed a glimpse of what it was like to survive: medical intervention as

and J D, we explored guy love nearly twenty years later, a lot is changed, we're not Superman but which still best friends, given a mandatory lockdown, there's no better time to relive the series that brought us together in the first place and we're doing it wouldn't care ass, right people working to bring friends and crew members and fellow cast members and writers, and and guess what we're gonna even invite. Some of you to call into the pie cast and ass all the questions you wanna be entire sacred heart staff join us, profane, doctors, real friends on the eye heart radio am apple podcast and whenever you get your pod casts. Here's where it gets crazy. So writing for the intercept journalist by the name of Sharon Learner expose Dupont's multi decade cover up of what she prefers to ask what the severe

harms of health, associate with chemical known as p F, o a or see aid and assist the compounds. It is Pietro. S and Jan acts well What's a serious name, do other, also used to be a pretty good comic. Sues might still be out called generation ex do remember. I don't talk well check it out of your marvel fan for a long long time, few people in the public had ever heard of sea eight see eight is one of the essential ingredients in Teflon. If, as everywhere, it's called us surfactant, because it reduces the surface tension of water, it's library very stable compound, and it was eventually used in hundreds of products it in Gore tax. It's another waterproof clothing, it's a code, four eye glasses for tennis rackets, its assent improved coding for carpets and furniture firefighter

foam, fast food, wrappers, microwave popcorn bags, bicycle lubricants, satellite components, communication, cable, ski wax, even pizza boxes. Concerns about the safety of TAT. One c eight and other things were called long chain per floor and eighty chemicals first to the public attention more than a decade ago, but there a long after untold story about Dupont's involvement with sea, eight and till Sharon Learner together? This in, like a nineteen part series the eagerly Free online. No one had really told this story over them. Thirteen years lawyers have been waging an epic legal battle against see in its manufacturers or people who use it in products, including Du Pont, Three M, which manufactures some of the substances that do buys to create a flawed.

This stuff culminated in a class actual war suit. That was about three thousand five hundred personal injury claims that way. Trial in September of twenty seventeen, but before we get to that and before we get to the EPA, is involvement and Uncle SAM involvement or collusion in this in the sordid tail. Let's look at the kind of health effects stuff can cause it's pretty Ass, the exposure to these long chain per Florence. Eighty chemicals can cause things like all sort of politeness High cholesterol, hypertension Roy Disease Testicular cancer cancer and more we know don't just rumour yeah how come you're here that in the fine print for Non state, PAN Commercials you just don't use a metal spatula right.

And that's that's part of the reason, because you know that tough once of conflicts are than into your body in two thousand and eleven two thousand twelve. After years of research scientists published more than three dozen peer reviewed articles on these effects and one of the most troubling parts of their findings was that the chemicals I had the affected your entire body, not just in particular organ or systematic, even very low exposure could impact a person's health, and this stuff builds up in your body sort of like how more people concerned about eating too many specific types of fish because of mercury course rate, and that's that still a thing that should be concerning the people, this was the same way. It could build up in your body and it can build up in wild life. But this also very old news, old beans to depart because

Their scientist studied this chemical and related chemicals for deeds and decades, and they were very well informed about the dangers but instead of informing the public. Instead, forming government agencies like the EPA instead of informing communities living near the plants were tough. I was manufactured instead of forming their own employees. They can finding secret and they perpetrated room arguably successful cover up there absolutely dead. Sadly, we can rate the cover up success in one absolute, frightening statistic, and it is see, aid is a man made compound did not exist one hundred years ago, and now it is. The blood of ninety nine point, seven percent of americans- This is from a two thousand seven analysis of data. From the CDC see present in newborns breast milk and blood from umbilical cord, which also in a wide range of wild life, including law,

had sea turtles bottlenecks, dolphins harbour, seals, polar bears, Caribou Wallace's Bob eagles Lions tigers and arctic birds. Parenting. Bears the apparently I'm sure a lot of people are waiting to hear the bears so. You could say if you would you be a little more optimistic about it, you could say Maybe there was something wrong with the methodology of the test. Maybe the data was analyzed incorrectly may be. The CDC, for some reason is screwing up, but we can assure you that odds of that are pretty low. You could also be optimistic and say: well, hey, I don't, loggerhead, sea turtles, bottle, nosed coffins harbour, seals, polar bears and so on, but This is still indicative of a widespread problem because, if its, if its existing, if it found existing in those animals that are in maybe not

indirectly part of the human food chain? Can only imagine it like We exist in animals that are part of the human food chain or more commonly found in it in there. Defence. Du Pont no longer uses see eight, but at this point removing it Earths environment is impossible because Let me mention that it's a very chemically stable compound. As for we know this stuff does not break down this means that it will be on the planet for a long time. It may even outlast humanity so millions millions of years in the future. As if some extra terrestrial civilization exist in for some reason, visits our planet. They may not, and us, but the Wolf traces of our our time here and what the things they will find will be tackled in everything

Am I gonna die Ben? I couldn't one pair Alla time well if, as a one way right now, it is the fact that I was right. There was a broad question. Is teflon killing me softly it I suppose, significant health risk and the public is more aware of this situation in this epidemic. The government has started to take action and private litigation, as also escalated, will tell you a little more about the current situation as well as Dupont's in. Turn all battles after a word from our sponsor egg. As its Jack O Brien CO, founder of crack dot com and I host a twice daily news and culture podcast with

on his person. I know miles gray what an it, what an owner always tell you, how much more about how hilarious don't tell them about my background in politics as a political operative or anything like that, just keep going on about the fun. I wasn't going to ok, that's guys, you can come get caught up on what is happening without feeling the life train out of your soul. At the dailies, Ike Iced, you find us on the Iheart Radio, app apple pie, CAS or wherever fine particles are given away for free. And we're back. Eight companies are responsible for sea contamination in the. U S do part is far and away the leader here of these companies in terms of both the use of sea and emissions of it. But Sir and others were found to have a role, including three M, because three and, as you said,

actually manufactured see. Eight were produced and sold it to depart for years, while they also very equally aware of the dangers from the very beginning, Du Pont scientist approached see AIDS potential dangers with a pretty I bought rigour and they studied it closely. Way back in nineteen. Fifty four there was a Dupont. Employee named are a Dickerson who noted he had received an inquiry regarding c h quote possible toxicity yeah and then in nineteen sixty one. Just seven years later in house, researchers already had the short answer to Dickinson's question. See I was indeed toxic and should be quote handled with extreme care. Like now slathered on household goods rapids by next year. Would it wouldn't we say there sixty one by nitrates, yet by nineteen sixty two expense? its head,

whittled down these broad concerns into some red flags and found some specific condition and caused by sea closure to see was linked to the enlargement of rat, testicles, adrenal glance and kidneys. The cat. Even at least in one instance, we know of the company even conducted human experimentation with sea ate it. Ten. Sixty two sides asked volunteers to smoke, cigarettes least with sea eight, and they found it now here. Well, if they asked him to the Euro area, found the nine out of ten people in the highest Deuce Group were Noticeably significantly ill for an average. Of nine hours so as much as eighteen, you know, and they have flu like symptoms included, chills, backache fever and coughing. We No, if they did a follow up study years later, to see the rates of cancer.

We do know that this cover up then encompasses more than just tough line, because tat? One is a brand name for something that is a type of Pierre fate. Pierre fees. Are you used in so many things. We mention the microwave popcorn, the fire, fighting, foams, fast, wrappers, industrial processes. In proven, to have clear and harmful effects on human beings and wildlife and, as we record this episode, scientist attorneys and public interest groups are still work you figure out the the sheer scale of the contamination, as was the extent of danger this poses to humans and wildlife. Accusing ample the dew point used to get rid of these. Substances by putting them in barrels and will put it rocks in the barrels or waiting the barrel, somehow and then just drop in the ocean or

we never water source, so that means that there are there areas of the world where the groundwater has been contaminated with this stuff, and we don't When I say we, I don't just mean Dupont or the: U S or anything I mean our species hasn't figured out how to get this stuff, yeah. So even if you're seems to be a kind of a common issue, doesn't we were real good it put in stuff, am have acquired output stuff out we're all Mickey mouse at the beginning of Fantasia Member, when he figures out that x, way to mark up one. This raises a princess worse and he starts making mobs, but they make mobs and then the flood begins. You have ever that

occurred to me. That is a very good analogy. Metaphor: what have you for the exact kind of stuff we're talking for the union to do with the magic back in the bucket rate? Exactly actually went to a talk recently, it was. It was a weird pairing. It was jaded Psmith interview, Al Gore about climate change and something came up at the end where Jane asked Al Gore like so what technology in the future is there to pull these emissions out of the atmosphere and the The matter is that this is something that sort of exists but require so much energy to do it that it makes it not really cost effective or just practical at all. So I guess people are thinking about this kind of stuff, but it's like it usually is so much more of a of a to do and just to maybe do a better job of putting the stuff in there in the first place. Right right in this goes beyond this goes beyond politics. This is just a health concern, and I know some of us in the audience may may object to

the alarm isn t git so commonly you know, spread about in the public sphere. When we talk about these global or macro level human threats. But the reality of the situation. Now at least just just my opinion are the realities. Situation now is the following: the earth does not need humanity life on earth in some, form will likely continue for a long long time, Schumann life on earth not a sure thing ends. It's not as if earth it Oh really has an opinion or cares. We are just one in a long line of damage species that have come and gone on this little rock orbiting, the sun and the third one, her height rate, This means that the

most significant race or challenge for the human species. Now is going to be technologic. Innovation. Verses, increasingly inhospitable natural environments, so are going to survive as a species of plants, living in domes. That there are a lot of optimistic futurists would say yet like our polish or movie, Biota liar down was an old woman that there is definitely a bargain. I that's one of those films that I think I enjoyed when I was a kid I think I'm just gonna leave it. There I don't know, if I don't know, if I should we watch it, I think not. I don't know if it's aged well, I doubt it ass was the other one. I with the Man Racine, Brendan Frazier wheezing. The jet sets ray. I dont know if a watch that no,

it should not? I did the other night which I watched phantom menace again for the first time in a long time, that movie is problematic on many levels. Let me tell you is that, where George are being that one that is a racial caricature, but there's a bunch of other ones, there's like the trade federation guys were kind of like these very cliche, almost like asian caricatures and there's just tons of not to mention the writing is quite hackneyed its It's it's strange. I read. This has nothing to do with anything, certainly not the fate of the planet, but I found a man is connected with the fate of the planet: a planet. But but. There is a very interesting fan theory that initially I dismissed It argues that in the initial stages of planning, for phantom menace and the movies at that will come after you.

Our banks was supposed to be like a Loki scythe Lord and then later exposed as a scythe, Lord awhile, its again it's a fan theory. I haven't seen anything that made that as smoking gun level evident with his evil scythe power, just like annoy you to death steam, because he shows remarkable agility in some areas I dont you'll have of the red, I'm sure it's available on cracks or one of the other when, in the other popular fan, theory analysis sites but back to the back to the Teflon menace for lack of a better term In February of this year of two thousand eighteen, three m settled a lawsuit with Minnesota for eight hundred, and fifty million dollars in essence admitting according to Shannon Learner that they act, with a deliberate disregard for the high risk of injury to the citizens and wildlife of Minnesota, and they.

They went for this settlement- fifty million dollars- it's not going to it's not going to put them in the Pour house, but it is a significant trying to change they win for the settlement, because the Minnesota attorney General's office released. Huge set of documents, internal studies by scientists at three M memos emails and research reports- the detail What three m knew about the harmful potential of these chemicals right now, right now, there's probably already at least appointed the cdc. So kind of Pierre faith in your in your system in your body. Is you hear this unless what point three percent the population one of the one of the most widely acknowledged swell dangers of tat. One. This was acknowledged publicly way before last. Each began is that it have a tough one pan and you overheat

to about six hundred degrees Fahrenheit. It will. It could release toxic gases. But again That didn't seem like too much of a concern has very few people cook stuff at six hundred degrees at here's a question for you to leave with. What's the alternative is Ireland? I have some non non stick pans. They are a bit of a pain in the bar when you cook certain things on them, but typically you watch and cooking, shows and like shaft and stuff and high level cooks do not really using non. Stick pans Alla time they're out there using my copper pans and, like my sir stainless steel pans, Lakers here, So what's the what's the difference in one and is it? Is it literally just a matter of well, you might have to priests, them little longer. Your care of them who yet there are some manufacturers of now state pans that are advertised as non toxic. So one example would be something like was willing, which is just the word willing with easy there.

German company that made there. They made their name, I believe and knives, but they use a lot of the elsewhere. On a lot of ceramic stick cook where and then there's a thing called green pan. They use something called thermal on its patented ceramic non. Stick layer, that's made out a sand; essentially it doesnt have led or cadmium or Pierre Phase or Pierre away or all the other stuff and the problem That's stuff is its heat resistance up to fourteen fifty degrees celsius, meaning it won't release toxic fumes unless you heed it passed that you can find other all turn. It Several of them are higher end, so they're gonna be more of an investment, but for their part, Du Pont has instituted so Other other Substances to replace IE eight is as well

they no longer use that and the EPA has been involved. It says it remains committed to evaluating Pierre away and Pierre foes under the regulatory determination process. Using the best available science. Part of their evaluation. They are gonna, be reviewing all newly available scientific info in concluding the. Or by the eighty sdr the agency for toxic substances and disease registry, they also said they are taking steps to accelerate quote the determination process before the existing statutory deadline, which is twenty twenty one. So in a few years, the subtle change, but Maybe the last thing we should end on here is, as remember twenty eighteen p also found that the chemicals manufacturers used to replace these original toxic substances like see eight were themselves, toxic, so they replaced it with a different

with a different, dangerous chemical. We were at now now call the slightly less the two evils. It's a believe. It's gin acts as one of the ones that they said was still dangerous, but Well, yeah is slightly lesser and look we're we're not saying that if you use non state pan, you are going to die, we're saying that suppose you to the substances used to make tough line are, are quite dangerous, and a lot of the a lot of lawsuits came about from former Dupont. Employee these are employees of the manufacturers of these substances or people living near the plants or disposal sites so it's not cook him with a non state. Pan is not the same thing as just huffing straight pdf, always oh good. Centres that report there. That's comforting and

You would like to read the full series on the intercept. Wanna tell you that is excellent. It is very through its quite law, It's a long green, but it's worth your If you would like to learn more about how this successful cover up this successful corporate conspiracy to discuss, as the health risk of these substances actually evolve, and developed overtime. As well as where it is at. Currently, Thank you so much for checking out our show. Let us know what you think is this. Is this situation where in a large company, just wasn't aware of the cites is being exaggerated by alarmist interest groups or Is there a real and genuine threat and if so, why or why not? You can find a sun instagram. You can find some facebook, you can find

on twitter would especially like to recommend here's where it gets crazy, our community Facebook page, where can hang out with your fellow conspiracy realists and see some funding me. Yet we been known to look. We have indeed, yes, so do all those things, and if you don't want to do any of those things we have to, we would recommending it not acquired. You can also be seen as a good old fashioned email, where we are in spiritual at house of works that come up as to game. I made my lifestyle ratings sites like TAT, you were expelled, Katy Parry.

But base by making menage? What's my name by reality, just the name a few, and now I'm having an absolute glass sherry, some of their knowledge that have learned with upcoming somewhere on some land on envy, see I'm excited to welcome you to a brand new season of song Land and Sunland spike Ass, giving new insight into the magical part of some writing stove, as some of the best in the business and also the pioneers and up in colors, be shaping the hits you'll be listening to four years. We have an amazing roster, tell it this, isn't I promise you, you don't want to miss one single episode, Miss Sunland Monday nights at ten, nice sensual can join us our Sun Man's package as available every week after the show on the Iheart poorest, wherever you get your podcast one night in nineteen, sixty one on the side of a dark highway, better. Barney Hill caught lights in the sky.

Two years later, the Underwood hypnosis to try and recall what happened: some took it his facts. Others thought it was a fantasy, But what really happened that September night in world in Hampshire join me: He'll be ball for the inaugural season of strange arrivals, a co production of Iheart radio in grim and mild from errand monkey. Listen the strange arrivals on Iheart Radio, app on Apple podcast sore or wherever you get your podcast.