Here's the thing: saving money with Geico was almost better than playing pick up basketball, because there's always that guy who joined your game He never passes the rock. He constantly Rex theories and who completely happy when put his hands up and say no foul, no foul with Geico, it's easy, switch and save on car insurance. No fake, an ankle sprain because you're absolutely exhausted. So We can save with Geiger it's almost better than sport. I gotta get any day and I am selling thirty turn out that worthy feelin finale of my ipod cap. When we re within J, have NBA I'll start and mental Health Advocate Kevin love. Nothing robs us of more human potential, then let it so it's like the pandemic. Nobody stocking about. We talk about Kevin's journey with his inviting passion and, of course, the main thing. Nba queer. Listen to us. We have a semi J on the ice review

apple podcast or wherever you gave your part. Can you approved two psychic powers and government conspiracies history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn start they don't want you to know, hello, welcome back to the ship when he was met, they call be, then we are joined with our super producer, Paul Deck and, most importantly, you are you- you are here, and that makes this the stuff. They don't want you to know cocoa Fernandez. Yes, that's true that our story begins today within anecdote. Cocoa Fernandez. That's seo seo a Fernandez.

Is a registered voters or was a registered voters for a short time for a short time, pretty recently in Palm Beach County as West Palm Beach Florida, where my endless reside, true, that's one of the things the most well known for palm beach in this in this show is so the euro a base is being registered. A vote is a good thing. Yeah. I turn eight he needed Senor Registration and, oh my gosh. I can vote my first election, cocoa you're doing it right you too, to wait in line. Right. You can have a say in some of the biggest elections that exist in our country. You can sort of have a sick we'll get into it. Ok, you're you're say, might not be as direct as you think, but it is important and cocoa. We can guess probably didn't understand. The importance of voting registering devote because you see cocoa is

in addition to being a resident of Florida, a poodle, oh yeah, So how did that happen? Well, according to Palm Beach County election supervisor, Teresa poor criminal activity got this dog. Palm Beach counties voter roles, oh somebody signed the dog up and she asked the state attorney to investigate whether Koko's owner awaiting him, windy, Albert or someone else fraudulently filled out the election card to embarrass Teresa Laporte Office Cocoa got on the voter roles in July of that year. This kind of crime, if you are convicted of a carries a maximum five year, prison term of five thousand dollar fine LA poor, says she suspects windy Albert of doing this fraudulent registration. Ah, I wonder what I do

you she used. It doesn't say that in the story here who said okay, this cocoa Fernandez, this looks like you identification. Ok, you're in no Albert for her part at the time the story broke, didn't say which of her friends, she thought was the sun, fact, but she denied any wrongdoing and she is pretty bothered that cocoa, who is, by all accounts, a great dog but still a dog. She she's bothered by the fact that the dog out a voter card in the first place. She says it's kind of scary, with all the problems we had and Palm Beach county, even a dog can vote. This is the same palm beach by the way, if you are familiar with the two thousand. U S, presidential election is the same palm beach. The was home to the butterfly ballot and became the focus of all these legal battles and protests.

Yes, I'm hanging Chad's there that a thing I can't remember Elsa weird couple of days now for the record for better or worse, as far as we know go. Fernandez has not actually voted registered, but not not a voter, and it brings us to one of the strangest parts of: U S: government history, the voting system right on Paper met, the! U S. Voting system sounds like a pretty solid idea right, it's pretty appealing yet one citizen one vote and though we count them all up and whoever has the most you in there we go right, short, sweet, simple and, most importantly, neutral and fair. There are a couple of things that interfere with this process. Paper, and often some would say more often than not. The process in practice is not the process on paper.

We wanted to open with an anecdote that sounds ridiculous ones, sure you fellow conspiracy, realise that this is not an isolated incident dogs are voting. Everywhere in this country is left and right now, literally politically for the left and the right. So if, if you are U S? Citizen, as you said that, generally speaking in theory, one vote per person, to make your voice heard now there are a lot of complications that arise with this for differing reasons ripe, one of the biggest one so recently reported in last week tonight, a great show by John Oliver and his writing staff is the idea of felons voting, because in several states you cannot vote if you have been convicted of a felony and their weight in states where there's a process to regain their right to vote, often

Those processes are pretty difficult, gatherer no ma am he can we go in and an example numbers we generate within one year. I will let's just speaking of felons who are voting: let's go to the case of Crystal Mason. She is a convicted Phelan. She went to prison for some tax fraud issues and then, after she got out of prison and twenty sixteen, she attempted to vote for the presidential election or vote in the presidential election and, according to her turning his she had. She had no idea that she could not vote as a convicted Phelan and her name was not on the ballots when she went to go and Munich vote. So she she cast a provisional ballot. Add I believe it was her church and then she got caught up and she is now or she was at least in June, of twenty eight teen. She is on trial

She ended up being sentenced to five years in prison for voting illegally because she was a phelan on probation five years in prison. For attempting to vote as a felony, so I guess the idea here that that measure of of giving five years in prison to an individual try vote. Who is a phelan? Is I don't try that again? I guess I'm kind of preventative measure as a scare tactic, kind of thing, because I don't know not to cast juggernaut either way? That's pretty harsh sentence right and state by state these sorts of law. Was differ. We highly recommend that you watch the John Oliver piece which largely centres on Florida but also check out there. Cremation in your own state

It doesn't matter whether or not you are phelan. It's important to know these sorts of things and look there's another complication too that we mentioned just a second ago. While you can vote for or against certain policy changes. Local elections like if you go to vote in local elections, election in UCI attacks, bill or rezoning issue, or something in federal elections, you never directly vote on policy. No. What exactly is gonna happen right. Instead, you vote to elect representatives who will again

in theory, represent the wishes and concerns of your community at a national level. That's why this is known as a representative democracy. So, for instance, if I'm super producer Paul is running for Senate at happens to be running for the state in which we vote, we don't get to vote on all the things that Senator super producer. Paul name is game longer than super producer. Paul will deal with on a day to day thing or in a legislative session. We can write letters to him. We can go to fun.

There. We can ask him to do thing. We can raise money for him. We can raise money for him, but we are not in the room where it happens to to borrow the Hamilton line. Anyhow, that that does still seem pretty simple right. You may not be directly affecting a lot of policy, but you are you still have agency if you're voter could your choosing the person who, again in theory, will represent the interests of your yourself as a voter? and of your community, pretty simple right, but wait as Billy Maize want to say, there's more right, Matt Area, especially in the case of the presidential election system, the thing that becomes the massive event that occurs every four years. Usually in this country there are two separate types of voter counts, and we have discussed this before a little bit. The first is a popular vote. That's the one that we have been discussing this whole time.

One person one vote, everyone CAS that vote, everybody gets counted and that the final number is what the popular vote is. The other thing it steadily torrent college vote. It's a little strange. This is thing this is where it gets. Complicated the level of. I need somebody to explain this to me please. So it's a very small sub section voters. So, if you think of the millions of human beings and citizens, they live in the United States, who are voters will that all the way down to five hundred and thirty something I believe in the last election was five hundred thirty eight, and within this five hundred and thirty eight people, you just need a majority of them to win the presidency according to the electoral College about so in this case, with five hundred thirty eight, you need a majority of two hundred and seven

Now you're, that's it's. This gets even more complicated sure the number of electoral votes that your state gets equals the number of congressional members. For your stay so for each member in the House of Representatives, you get that many plus two more and those that for your centres will obviously because every state gets to senators. But that's your electoral college vote. So it's essentially like counting all the people in Congress in both houses and then saying those people vote right sort of yeah, but it's not those people voting issues that number of people voting you're yeah, because the people cast the electoral votes are chosen in different ways by parties there, not those folks, arts elected in the same way that elected like

selected, which it all sounds very strange, sounds very orwellian. Some are more equal than others, etc, because it is what you say that it is. It's got a lot of problems. It leaves room for manipulation of a much smaller group of people, and there are people who on both sides, the aisle who will raise very valid points about how the electoral system could be improved. But not everybody agrees on how that would happen. We will do in episode of the Electoral College in the future, but for now, let's just keep it at this. There are two voting systems for the presidential election and you, if you are, U S Buedir directly vote only in one of those and that's where we see all this controversy that arises when someone says

subject to insert president name here, because they won the electoral vote, but they did not win the popular vote or something because those things don't always gibe, and today we are focusing on that were focusing on the popular vote. It's not can be a snooze fast. We promise you. This is gonna, be both interesting and import. And it's going to hang on your input at the end folks, we desperately need and welcome your help, for this will focus on the popular vote, particularly that I'm every four years, when you specifically you if you're part of the let's say about fifty eight percent little more fifty eight percent of eligible voters who voted during the twenty sixteen election were

Focusing on that time. Every four years, when you actually vote, cast your ballot and make your opinions known because, as it turns out just that just your vote is the subject of numerous massive conspiracy theories. So here are the facts, I feel like it's not spoiling anything. I don't think anybody's going gonna. Be surprised to hear that the? U S voting system has enormous problems and whose based outside of the? U S, thanks for coming, stick with his promise. This will not be a big jargon iii slogged for you. This will be interesting view to astonish and amaze your american friends. You may well walk away from this episode, knowing more about their political system than they do, and just certainly also it's a ding on us. Instead of just thought, I did not. You While everyone can it does the funny thing that everyone can agree that the system needs an overhaul of some sort, but the problem is:

Politicians and activists just cannot seem to agree on exactly what those changes should be, there's an author alternate Loreen, see minutes who wrote paper called an analysis or fraud in the United States, and she had a really fascinating quote that that sum this up since the suit an election and historic effort has been under way in the United States to strengthen voting systems across all fifty states into aggress obstacles to broader electoral participation at both the federal and state levels. However, efforts to advance a reform agenda have been frequently complicated by heated debates over the integrity of voting systems and biology of widespread election fraud and its cohort voter fraud.

You gonna love the way they depict those as if there were a team of evil, supervillain, snare election fraud and its sidekick voter, fried if cohort, when a weird term to use for that cohort in there we have. We have an example of how this came up in recent elections, because there have been people who were very high up and politics raising concerns about voter fraud, specifically in what you say, I will go and play this clip yeah times it doesn't matter occurs in many places like California, the same person. Boats many times you probably heard about that. There was so that's a conspiracy theory that a conspiracy theory, folks, millions and millions of people

very hard because the state Garcia records they don't want to see. So that is the there's coup from the current president of the United States. Donald Trump, who is it, was arguing the voter fraud does exist and that people from both political parties ignoring it. So there's something interesting going on there. What is still what he is saying is that There is a sort of wrong look at all these places where road of fraud is happening. If you talk about voter fraud, there they're going to You say bad things about you day, I'm assuming the media were sure I mean you sure local opponents were on the eyebrows political opponents, so That is one of the reasons why we are doing this episode right, because that kind of Rhetoric has been around on on both

somewhere, but mostly coming from one direction. The allegations of this kind of widespread voter fraud so just put it out there. That's one of the main reasons why region covering this right now, who knows? Maybe people will say bad things about us, because we are bringing up Voter fraud will be, and the whole point is to see if there's any salted stuff right. That's. Why were do yes? So let's pause they're on their lip and have a word from our sponsoring come back, will will examine what voter fraud actually is. It may not be exactly what you assume this episode of stuff. They don't want. You to know is brought to you by native hey, you guys. I am since you're. Looking at my wife's native deodorant that she loves it, is Africa caught and White peach she uses this thing every day, she's tried a tie,

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we're back. So here is the fifty seven dollar question: unjust, assigning a red, random, arbitrary value to this question. That is that ok now stood his the fifty seven dollar. Thirteen. Since thirty four cents question I like that number, they expand its for you. What is voter fraud will first, it's a pretty broad term and its often confused with these other related but distinct concepts. There are three ideas at play here and it's important its crucial to different them first straight, a voter pride there's, a nonprofit that works and voter registration call project vote and they define voter fraud as the quote intentional corruption of the electoral process by the vote it's when a voter knowingly blows off that America

idea of one person, one vote and attempts to influence in election in its the idea that people will vote using a fake identity. You know so you vote once met Frederick wants is Dennis Le Boy, I've! Now It has always been my reserving identities ever wisely. Ben and once is MAX power. Where's astronaut, with a secret yeah, that's great. Then we we rents and repeat ad nauseam until we have done this to such an extent that we skew the outcome of the election. That would take an outermost. It's a lot of time slot a time right, and this doesn't how honest mistakes were. Pranks like when the lady in Florida got pranks. Mrs Aubert got pranks in somebody registered her poodle, levelling when she registered her poodle friends

jokingly register Harpooner sway the election year. What a weird paperwork heavy prank yeah come. I will happen it. Tv and someone's yard. I got you registered, but I thought of it. I do so we're, but but also cocoa. If you're a curious, is a Register Republican. How nice these kinds of shame against only counter fraud. When someone purposely does it, as in an attempt to, way in election, not just because somebody was getting drunk or high and thought it would be hilarious if their hamster, you know, had the right to vote now, but then so so that

soft voter fraud and that definition is when someone on the voter side tries to influence and election and that's different from straight up election fraud there. This one this, like the idea of a concept of election fraud, is a lot more broad than voter fraud, did they d o j? The department of Justice actually looks at a full on twelve ways that an election can be corrupted in one way or another, and it is action, serenely rare that this fraud is ever committed by the end of the person, the singular human being? They goes into cast a ballot, and if you look at those twelve ways you you can look this up search for federal prosecution of election offences- Seventh addition: if you wanna edgier, see adrenaline rush, Harper degree did it's it's huge document,

I'll, even though many chapters I didn't get past, the first four Wheated read we we did read through. I read through to save you some time so the twelve things that they counters election fraud are conspiracy against rights, deprivation of rights, false information in payments for registering and and then things like voting more the once: voter intimidation, voter suppression, fraudulent registration, voting by non citizens, which is a big thing, travel act, male fraud, troops of poles in only having military member station and Poles friend I campaign dirty tricks and retention of federal election records so that they get pretty DR very quickly. But it's important stuff and, as you said, yes, he said man, it's extremely rare, at least in the

Oh geez findings that the voters who line up average John and Jane DOE America, there last Names- America, ok, I've, gotta up the improvisation before continue, but it's it's extremely rare that these people would be the source of the various activities at ports guy for this kind of stuff, the large scale election fraud, you're gonna, look at groups of people you'll get either and oppose the opposing force like. If you are one of the hurt, the person's running the election, it's going to be. The opposing camp perhaps is trying to do this. Maybe some advocacy that's a third party to the election has a hand in something like this. Even the election officials them I was trying to rig an election in some way. For some reason or another, that's I mean that's really well you're. Looking at with this kind,

even maybe the candidate himself, trying to pull some strings somewhere play possibly yet and for some reason I could see that happening more easily. A local elections are sure just what the just the numbers involved. Member win her head ass, you what a control are actually does. I wonder if the controllers ever fix the election, I mean they're given numbers, so I'm, assuming probably I would watch that show. I will watch issue about small town, dirty controller politics naked launder those votes there were other, so that stuff is, is bored com and that's a pretty broad, definite used at the federal level. There is also the practice of voters, suppression, and this is going to be very familiar to a lot of a lot of us list. Outside of the? U S, because voters suppression is is distressingly alarmingly common in a lot of countries. In the modern day, voter suppression discuss

jobs. The many ways in which one political party or group will attempt to prevent certain voters for making it to the poles or force people to vote for certain candidate or certain Paul, c on election day in twenty ten about one hundred and twelve thousand voters in Maryland, located mostly in black voting districts, got these weird robo calls. That said, the ink bent. The personal Martineau Molly had one and that there was no need to vote. The recorded voice said our goals met, we're, ok, relax, everything's, fine, the only thing left his watch it on tv tonight. The problem is those calls were authorized by the campaign manager of the opponent candidate for governor,

and more new Molly had not one. No relations were still open. It was just meant to persuade people not to vote yeah what a dirty stinkin trick. That is when right right and it's the court's agreed by the way they said it was not just campaign speech largest free speech. Was purposely misleading and fraudulent, but then there is the other, the other more physical case of people being physically intimidated, poles or a mere poles. That's because there are some weird little rules that you can kind of skirt around having to do with number of feet away from an election centre in all this stuff right. But if you get caught doing that in trying to suppress about that way by intimidation, you can get some serious trouble in clearly elections again across across the world. Have some just cartoonish tat.

It's going up, I me weaves. We ve all seen reports where a certain politician winds, like a hundred percent of the vote and gets a hundred and ten percent of the vote in some districts and things like that. I'm pulling those specific numbers out of that out of thin air, but there have been situations where a certain district in some country, another gets more than one hundred percent of a vote for a candidate fats. Hang. You know everybody involved doing right. You get more votes than you sure. That's right, everybody's, given every body, is learning from cocoa Fernandez. So the problem with this stuff is. We can all agree that these are terrible things. They can skew a nation their day

as things, but there is another thing we have to: we have to admit witches. Some efforts to prevent voter fraud have led to voter suppression, so some efforts to prevent unscrupulous people from voting multiple times have led to totally innocent people being denied the right to vote, and I did it gets tricky, but the type of voter fraud we almost always your mentioned in. U S media is not nuance? Nor does it make any big differentiations, the type of voter fraud, yours

reported in the news in the past few years is almost always going to be the specific fear that certain voters are intentionally voting multiple times either under assumed identities or just by travelling to different locations and voting. So somebody is, for instance, registered somehow and three states, and they just three counties even are just three counties even and then just go and vote every Kennedy. So, instead of one person, they they end up having the power three people and just expand that a huge, worrying you'll see the problem. People are posing if this exist. It's a massive effort. I mean you need so many people voting so many times to make a discernible difference in the polls. Hiv. The numbers of would be astounding here just to make a large enough difference unless you're looking.

A very small voting block, but then again, if your voting, if you're voting multiple times, you're, not gonna, be voting in the exact same pool, that's being collected your one vote is only one little drop in the bucket. You would have to have hundreds, probably thousands know, probably hundreds of thousands of people doing this to really sway of a large enough vote. They are like beyond a federal level, are not a federal level. You'd have to have millions probably know. It also depends on the districts, this specific districts, because some of those districts give very very closely and matter of a margin of error. Few hundred votes. Yes, I guess I M one of things of Europe taking part in this in your organizing it, to the extent that you would need to do to action. Swain election reliably. You would need at least thousands, even if any of them is getting a couple hundred. You have to have them in place right

you also need to be able to predict where exactly where you needed to slot those fake voters in right, so really or we're talking about is something you do from a council. And you'd be a hacker Fatima movie hackers and you'd have virtual reality. You and you servers. That's really the only way to do so or by Diebold, when you hear stories voter fraud in the media is often Maybe a lurid tale of dead people voting maybe maybe non. U S, citizens being intimidated or force them travel round and van and vote under false identities, and usually when you hear that, there's going to be an immediate solution proposed after that, coupled with this description of something dangerous, there's going to almost always be a description of what needs to happen, to fix it and now be stuff like photo right,

voter idea, voter, I d, you say you mean taking your identity occasion to go and register for to vote or end or to vote right, which people already do. That sounds so simple from just take your idea right, everybody has an I d or a specialised. I d, just for voting. But it's not so simple, it's not so simple, and will we get into that in a moment? We can all agree, however, that if voter fraud exists it needs to be stamped out, is rigging, the guy

even more than its already rigged yeah, which I feel it is not a controversial statement is it who can pay as much money as you want to any politician is true true, and you can do it without being directly associate with money either. So it's fine, it's fine! It's five everything's fine. However, critics of the the claims about voter fraud say that there's something very different at work here. They see the voter fraud itself is a conspiracy, but not the way. It's been described to you in the media. Here's where it gets crazy. In this situation, we truly do have a house divided to people who believe the voter fraud is rampant. There is a concerted conspiracy at the heart of the election process.

And it is one perpetrated by the political left and, conversely, to people who believe that vote or fraud is non existent. It's not even thing it's massively over hyped if it is a thing at all, there is a concerted conspiracy, the heart of the election process. However, this one is perpetrated by the political right oddly enough time of people, believe that there is a genuine conspiracy of foot. People have on all. The political isles people have conspiracy theories about this whole thing is Lincoln universally agree on exactly what the conspiracy it's in. That's perhaps because it is so deeply too two left and right about what is believed to be the conspiracy, come to the age of no, you politics just don't engage, everybody, ok, but let's afraid for purposes of learning. Let's keep it

figured out right. So in the modern day, accusations of voter fraud are closely tied to the recent election, and the current president president from has also echoed these claims. According to the Washington Post in twenty eighteen, during a visit to West Virginia Press, in Trump said a lot of times. It doesn't matter because in many places, like California, the same person votes many times. You probably heard about that, They always liked to say. Oh, that's a conspiracy theory, not a conspiracy theory. Folks Millions and millions of people- and it's very hard because the state guards the records they don't want to see. Ok, so this was his interesting because this is after the election has already been decided and

arguing about popular vote right while there were yeah when there were people. Additionally, I guess opponents of the Trump Campaigner Administration who said back in twenty fifteen twenty, sixteen really that he was bringing up well his speech riders were bringing up the idea of voter fraud as sort of a way to back pedal if he gave out it yeah. If you didn't lose election, that's when Bronco bomber put for that statement of there was really widely

blind recirculated around the table, where you speaking to that same of actually give you your bringing up voter fraud as a way to safeguard against. Perhaps if you lose, but the important far with Brok Obama with his statement, was that he said any would be almost impossible to influence our elections in this country. Just due to the size of these elections and the complexity of them, it will be almost impossible to inner with our elections. That's that's the quote. He gave and then the interesting thing that happens after that is then the Democratic Party alleges that that very thing it occurred and it was a state actor it wasn't in inside. Job of american voters must release. It. Was Russia itself right right,

which is not voter fry. That's election for electrify yeah, but still exists the hall the whole mess that became all of these things. I, and so we see the we see the issue painted why'd. You know what I mean and we see a lot of claims. So what? If the claims of widespread voter fraud a conspiracy to commit voter fraud, true? It brings several questions to mine immediately. First, how many people are actually voting multiple times, especially considering so many Americans Campi artist to vote one time. Not I mean how do you are that person a vote taken on they are. I see three reserve is that's like no getting ourselves there and vote, therefore go like approachable, curse, word, curse wording. Europe anymore, I don't know. Well, he can't be bothered, add away.

Ass, regardless of where they stand with her arse can't give you those exact numbers, because we do not have those numbers the numbers are not easily attainable, even if we could attain them we can tell you how one person did it is that yeah yeah. I've laid on us, ok, woman named. Terry Lynn wrote she He was, let's see fifty six in twenty seventeen she attempted to vote for download from twice in the twenty sixteen election and she did so because she, but she was listening to the words of Donald Trump at the time in the build up to the election and believed that the Democrats were going to be using voter fraud to win the election. That's that's what she believed, at least according to her statements. So Terry Wynn Route cast one vote, her regular vote. It was an absentee vote. I believe

then she was arrested when she was trying to cast a second ballot. She was going to this work, at least in the article on the independent, was called a satellite voting location and she's Could I dont know what came over me at the time? She just thought she has to do this in order to help the person she wants to be elected, get elected, ok. So from her standpoint then It was not a plans holder necessarily, she was working with a network of people. Yes, she I believe in the Oracle you'd semi. She said that she was concerned her first ballot, where she voted Trump would be changed to a vote for Clinton thousand out of a girl on rumours about that, especially if you use the electronic voting at the time. If you putting your vote, you hit cast ballot, any would flip

that's what the the out of their own people, letting that. So, according to her story, she was literally just walking by that early voting location said. You know what it's I've gotta, make sure I'm at least heard once yeah socio, what two years probation correct and get a fine as well yeah, seven hundred and fifty dollars. So she actually voted twice. Ok, so she actually did it with it did. We go that this happened, and then you mentioned earlier the story of Crystal Mason, Yak or so Mason. So if you're, if recounting up, then how many felons are out there are voting illegally. That's the one case that we can point to right now is best case. It's someone you perhaps didn't know that she couldn't vote as a Phelan attempted to vote and she got caught. Ok, so

and we have no extra votes. Yet. No ok knows how excel yes, so involve these instances trying to vote twice got caught at the at the pulling place attempting to vote illegally, as as a phelan got caught. Ok. So what about the other big concern? I think we ve all heard it spouse most often on the right. The concern of non citizens vote- that could be anywhere from an undue. Demented immigrant, some it doesn't have a legal residency status where someone who is a legal resident, but it does not have citizenship right. Yes, we can. We can look to. Story from twenty eighteen about a woman named Laura Garza, whose three years old she pleaded guilty to charges of voter in person. And you know in the eligible voting. Sorry I'm having hearts I'm saying ineligible for a second. He said aloud

people, and I was thinking man. I've been on the knife edge have an illegible voting, no right, ugly letters. The US has well is Garza, was sentenced to ten years in jail in order to pay a ten thousand dollar. Fine actually did was stole the identity of an actual person, a voter she voted. I believe three at least three elections using this other persons identity, not three times and one election, but over the course of several electronics you does it for two thousand, and twenty sixteen hours did it for a while, and so this kind of thing there may be more of this out. There were just someone else's sure identity is being used. Perhaps it is a dead persons identity. In this case it was a person who is very much alive, who attempted to get a passport. And they noticed that their name, their identity was already in a passport existing out there somewhere and had a voting. I see,

I'm glad you mention them out, because it brings us to the methods through which voter fraud is claimed to manifest. Yes, One idea is that, therefore, fraud is widespread, exert milieu the people still on the roles, and the assumption is that these dead people's identities will be used by someone else. It is true that the peace centre on the states found that one point, eight million dead people were still on the voter rolls in twenty twelve have a lot of people. That's enough. Do you know what I mean people rise from the grave and have a strong medical opinion which is usual for zombies. That zone vivo that zombie vote. I would watch it, watch the zombie vote. If it's, I don't care. If it's sick com, I don't care. If it's you know

what happens if the zombies in the walking dead get the vote? Oh nothing! They don't show up on the show all we know low critique over here, shots fired, Paul Kangaroo shots fired sound to you. I still haven't seen past episode, one of the session hey you, I'm I'm sure it's I'm sure it's a good show is just it doesn't, have enough walking dead. For me, you know what I mean There never ever more. What about what beware: the locking debtor fear the walking dead watch out the walking dead, danger, slackened I'll give you were in it. I would watch it if you as a living person ever to watch it. Yes, so that's that's a pretty

Miss number right, there's no way around it, no matter what you think going into the situation. One point: eight million people who are dead but still on the bears. The register. It's a big deal and then there's this other idea. That judge the pure math shows voter fraud exist. This comes from the former vice chair of the Fraud commission. Kansas secretaries State Chris Co Bach Chris Kovac allege that he found a certain sample of fraudulent votes in his state. That and in that, if you extrapolate, that percentage that he found to the full population. In the: U S, then hundreds of thousands of specifically non citizens had voted. So the problem with this is that his

I think, looted people who might have voted illegally, but not people who actually had so people who ok might is the rise. Like the key phrase here got and as of twenty eighteen, he had out of the outer wall, the cases that he had claimed to find only nine resulted in any kind of conviction or please deal in this is over the course of multiple state elections, and the sad part is most of those nine convictions or play. Deals came from older people who were confused by the law. In you I mean gap, so maybe maybe they had not voted correctly, but they were lake we'd Alene in some strange scheme to get the comp trawler elected now feared. Controller needs to chew.

She's people go power, mad, they ve got there. Not not. A lot of people can wield the cop trolls Nora me how to withdraw your leary crunching numbers and signing checks and stuff, but you're not making that money you're getting a paycheck on top of everything command. Copyright retie, not you charge heavy. Is the head, the where's, the crown? You know what I mean capture. The boy in israeli Say Comptroller, it's. My head, though, do they have this? This picture, like a small town that has ruled that the iron grip of a cough hello, oh rises, the yeah. That's that's the real. Engine of the dramatic arc. It's ok or I obviously I game, I'm just rewriting breaking bad in my head. Ok! Well, that's not a bad thing to take our fear. The breaking bash break a fat- oh my god,

ass. You deal did while ok you're producer here the producer of this when a man, so the vote and let us know of fear the break in bad- is no case been off. We promised of count your votes fairly, so the problem is that the the math didn't quite work out there and a lot of other institutions that we can we can list on. This do show notes or something if you, if you like, to have more information about this lot of other institutions, found fault with these claims. There's the other idea that numerous non citizens are voting through the use of fake identities, so they're taking some of those one point: eight million dead people voting as them or their just stealing somebody else's information in voting as them. So, let's, let's look at the other side. Let's table had just for second, what if it turns out that

reports of voter fraud are themselves fraudulent for every case that we have named above, it seems there is very little translation to actual voter fraud. The region we did do some digging and we wanted. We want a very much to find real, legitimate cases where these types of voter fraud have been proven and match. Your credit, you found several and organised by type there, which we just explored, but the thing is we didn't find near as much as has been claimed:

I know what I mean. We didn't find hundreds of thousands of people. We can find millions of people, and this brings us to the question- is it? Is it just being ruthlessly covered up, is being ignored, as are all records of this? Being you know purged well, it could be, or could it be, then, that this whole voter frog thing, there's a fraud itself right, the voter fraud, fraud, We'll find out, after a word from our sponsor here's, the thing: saving money with Geico was almost better than playing pick up basketball, because there's always that guy who joins your game, he never passes the rock he constantly Rex theories and who completely happy when put his hands up and say no foul, no foul with Geico it's easy

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I invite you to tune in together. Let's learn how to stay calm and be happy, listen and subscribe to say calm on the Iheart radio, app apple pod casts or wherever you get your pot casts. Yes, that's the question: is there voter fraud fraud at the risk of dino sounding glib, because of those registration, Miss Council here about which are huge, inherently dangerous and arguably dangerous- they seemed to come from Can we hope for a lot of us sake? They seemed to come from p. Being really lazy, instead of being determined to rig the game of democracy and governance, and it can

so be just throw this one in there because of a lack of funding to update some of the technology used and a lack of personnel within a department in like let's say, however large the district is, let's get has to account some votes or do some kind of like auditing. It can have to do that to yeah. I think that's really fair point man, because people are supposed to get rich offer run running the vote, but I mean no, but also with the region. Creation thing it's registration for voting is supposed to happen at these very significant points in your life. You know what I mean like a name changes your address change. Is you become eighteen etc? Mary you get married change, yes, name change thing to us, so emancipated

How do you know this array of this great you anymore, stouter others are good will do. I guess the point we're making is that these or wife changes and when you're moving to a different interests when you're getting married, so on a lot of people, don't update them Voter registration is surprisingly or unsurprisingly low on their list of priorities wing our love. Ones die were usually not cool, knowing the voter registration office? First, to get a dead person's name off the pole In fact I would hazard in this is entirely my assumption is entirely speculation, I can be very, very wrong in this. I would have many people, if not most, don't even know, that's a thing you're supposed to do. I could not tell you my grandmother passed not that long ago. I could not tell you right now whether or not she still registered to vote

either in Georgia, where she's been residing or wage where she's alive in temper. I could not tell you that right I mean it's, it's not a thing that you would normally think none in such a grief stricken terrible time in people's lives, but now I'm generally gonna go check it out. Can't I am allowed to check ass a grandson. Are I gotta get it he's more digging on this and while you're digging? Let's, let's continue down this rabbit whole a little bit further, because we mention the critics of what we call the voter fraud. Kids. Percy argue that there's a little evidence to back up the more extreme claims, but here's the thing many go further and say that the whose allegations about voter fraud are conspiratorial in a different way. They are meant to push a another. Hidden agenda

could voter fraud fears be a means of disenfranchises certain parts of the voting population? It's an interesting, a fascinating question, because you see both political pundits and academics although the political people argue, this are mainly on the left side of the island. They say that voter fraud is simply a coup. Moral panic and the politician we are using concerns about this fraud as a justification, were establishing new rules that make it more difficult to vote and that function more. Like voters, suppression than an attempt to maintain the integrity of elections, the primary methods they obtain. To our voters, idea, acts and laws acquiring proof of address or citizenship. So that's the sailor thing. If that is true, we have to ask ourselves: why would some states impose rules to fight

a mythical scourge. So, according to Loreen menage, remember we mentioned her earlier. She did the whole and analysis of voter fraud in the United States. She says quote: it boils down to a political equation. The people who are less likely to be registered young people, people of color, naturalised citizens and low income people are more likely to be Democrats So in this case she saying that these rules are these laws. These voter laws are targeting specifically people on one side of the political I'll and preventing them or in an attempt to make it harder for them to register and then get to the polls Ok, so she clearly has pen this on a specific party right slowly is aiming at Republicans, and she argues that these voters are

less likely to have a photo idee and more likely to have a tough time getting one, and then she says that, as a result, publicans and her opinion are inclined to support voting restrictions like Idee laws and Democrats are more likely to support lowering those barriers, vs stuff, like automatic registration, pre registration, that's when you're. Sixteen or seventeen years old. You can go ahead and register awfully I'm sure, as they would imagine as Democrats or older bills that allow voters to register when they get a driver's license or new stuff. Like that, that's that's actually gonna go I like that. If you can drive, you might as well be registered vote on yet with that Harry. I think the logic there is sound so essentially She saying is both parties are attempting to.

Change the rules in ways that are estimated to best help their particular party, and this leads us to the conclusion: how do we effectively safeguard against possible fraudulent voting? Matt you're, throwing her arms up just set the whole thing on fire? That's that's here, district well the New York Times they. They wrote an article that comes with, at least in part from national academies of science, engineering, a medicine which I mean come on with that with that behind something you gotta know, there's there's some salt to it and then we're gonna be Courtyard says amid a chorus of warnings that the american election system is ground. Zero for foreign attackers, a panel of scholars election experts. Experts issued us weeping set of recommendations on how to make elections more secure. So this is directly from from these people national economies of science and engineering medicine? Here we go number one. They said

always have a paper trail for every vote cast basically a receipt for every vote even in this is, if it, Unlike in Georgia, where I vote for you get those little like a floppy disk, you put flabbiness guinea hate. Your vote take violates discount, give to somebody else. The Anna gets counted somehow there saying there should always be a receipt, essentially that you, the voter, gets to have and that also the county gets to have her the district, wherever your voting makes a lot of sense that just for backup verdict asian sauce also for easy auditing a lot of times and curly. There. Five states, Georgia, South Carolina, Louisiana Delaware in New Jersey in portions. While others that do not have any kind of paper trail. When you go and vote like in our case I go and vote every year whenever elections come up and you too probably been just depending on what county Erin

put that thing in that little by little chipped thing it council vote, then it goes somewhere else and don't ever see it now, and then I just like circle around but my flight suit and combat in Estonia- has an ax powers with a secret, the moustache and everything. Yes, I thought you naw man, ok, so that's number one. The next thing is: don't ever ever connect any voting systems ever at all ever with the internet. Just don't do it because it's so susceptible to being you any kind of manipulation. It can happen almost immediately upon hitting the the internet era, gap that stuff and leave it. That way, I'm mean this is only problem really because in some instances you, a citizen a broad, can gain access to online voting systems as well. Service members were abroad for overseas. That's really the only problem for that happens,

Another thing I mean all this stuff seem so they seems like stuff that Jimmy Carter and his organization at some point would be out there saying we to do this. We are where we are in his imbibe way or something we have open elections for the first time, we're going to monitor these elections. Here's a huge list of things. We need you to do it. If you like, it's the exam, same list eyes were was somewhat what else would also on transport, out of all elections at the state level. Basically, audit, all data, you, u scrub, all the private information so the individual voters information year of all that, but you have all of the votes like that. The many data essentially make that possible. So anyone who wants to track it can check it. Pretty I mean eyes, it is. I can see how that would be easy to perceive is rigged. Ok, perhaps, but I mean, if

Again, you ve got receipts on everything. So, on the district level, you ve got an audit, that's you're the one line somewhere on the state level. You gun audit that's available somewhere of each districts, and I don't know I feel like. I think those six ok, so those things only work if they're, all in implemented, nobody s yeah and everything right this current state, it's all just everybody's on their own everybody's, got every state has our own system and then largely the districts within the states have their own system, and then would be the idea of a shared database right and what is that? What this is really good. So when there are databases of voters, rights, Everybody in Georgia. That's one database, then everybody floor that's another database in there. What you do is you take those two databases. See where there are duplicates so

Ok, if someone I moved from Georgia to Florida, afforded Georgia or something you can eliminate, whichever one we can at least find where the errors and then begin to fix it, but for the sake of argument than their shares, this potential for problems with that, because Will people have the same name, so there would be like you, you have to actually verify so. Would both like Donnie Le Boy in Florida, Turner level by a Georgia, lose their vote? Well, here's here's! Here's where the final thing we're going to skip number six, because it just about male voting and make an exit here some are seven Llosa. This important thing here is inject federal and state funds into the voting process. There you can have at least a rolling system of checking those things with an actor human being or set of hundreds of beings checking these voter ballots. The registrations? Let me say so. You can see what the duplicate are and you can make a phone call to Joe Ear, whoever,

call the poodle all the poodles that are registered matter on Saint Poodle. Really you you, spend some money to get it right and then you would continually spend money every so often to keep getting it right. So why don't? Why? Don't people want to do that? Why don't officials want that to happen? Cuz it's expensive and it would be harder to late band of ashes me talking tempted to every let attempted to agree to make it even more cynical, o, probably add its generally very difficult to get political officials to do something that has positive benefits after they are out of office here. So you know occur if you're in office for a two year term, you're working on a two year, mindset right, then that usually that to your mindset, is oriented towards re election for another few years in a different position. Maybe who hire position and precise position in perpetuity controller for life? Bro,

So that's this another question. This almost nothing do with this, but it might be interesting. Do you know if there are any other Matt Fredericks there? of map. Are you serious? Yeah yeah there really are there some incredible people out their native Matt, Frederick, some of them don't! an EU between fraud and Rick. Some of them do some of em are straight up: Matthews furthermore, only mats some of them. I don't think, there's another man, you talk. No, there is another Matthew, Thomas Frederick Dang, that's just wondering. I only losers, to vote, no,

For now. I trust those guys I get on the all the mat Fredericks I've met were only you great people. I look up to the momentum of four. Now, though, it seems that most allegations of voter fried end up not being supported by researcher data from multiple institutions, and this means that if such a thing is occurring, then it would be a massive cover up involving notches Thousands by hundreds of thousands of people in the media, the election system, think tanks, universities, pulling analysis, the court's numerous branches of government staff with officials of all political ideologies and more. This is all not counting, of course, those tool, mystery voters to put it, to put it mildly, it's a tall milkshake, it's a lot to take it

So we wanted to end on a question for you folks. What do you think? Which of these two conspiracies do find more credible? Is their widespread voter, Fraud, as described so often in the media, or is voter fraud itself. A conspiracy meant to drive suppresses voting policies. Oh, we we'd like to hear your opinion. We would also like to hear in this is just a this is the kind of talk that you're not allowed to have in a bar, so we'd like to have it with you here in the Pike single knew nothing on heirloom. We, like you, never spoke to talk, what religion politics it up. And I think there is one other one. Your goober driver tougher right sure all those those three things, but this will. This is our collective opportunity, all of us to ask ourselves questions

about the vote. If you were in charge of revamping the voting system, what is a change would make for a long time. I was a big proponent of making it mandatory for every citizen to vote That might be a little bit authoritarian of me. I was going through a despot phase at that time in my life, but this my surprise: none: U S residence or listen, so fine a true story in the? U S election, He is not a holiday you You are left on your own to figure that out. So maybe that would be a change. Make I don't know. There's a Tuesday. The Tuesday is very convenient day a lot of work to be done on tuesdays generally, yet yeah Monday. You still have a little bit of like the optimism that you can organise everything in a week. This day, that's when the rub it's the road. My friend here, that's the whole God. This is it. This isn't happening.

We here we have to wear them. Have lower expectations. So let us know what you think you can You can find us on the internet where I we say it all the time to say at the end of every show. That's fine! You can find us there tell us about it. We'd love to hear from you, but more importantly, we'd love to have you tell us about it. S live in person, because we are going on tour. That's right! Go to stuff, they don't want you to know dot com. That's our website! Click on the tab up in the top right corner, it says, lie it shows you can see where we're gonna be. It's gonna, be in October of this year for listening to this in October you better hurry over there and get some tickets because we might be in your area very very soon so who buy tickets. While you can come see us it'll a lot of fun, because really I don't know, I think, we're ok,

with, and we want to share with you, because we hear your awesome and those spoilers for the show, but it is not to be missed and it's it's not going to be the kind of thing you here on the pot cast, If you like, this show, you will love life shows do check it out. I feel free to write to us. If you have any questions, feel free to call us now We can call us now here you call as one eight three three std w. Why T hay in just leave a voice message you might get on the air, but there's let's say also that all blue sounds into dean. But you have something important that you want your fellow listeners to know its most important part of the show and don't don't like social media staff, which were totally get and you're not that much for phone calls which totally get the Good NEWS is. You can write to directly we are conspiracy and how stuff works. Dot com

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