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supplier and I heard radio original pie, Casper sales force dazzled. Let's change the world, one relationship editor, listen the forest multiplier on Iheart radioactive Apple pie, guest wherever you get your past From you at those two psychic powers and government conspiracies history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn stop. They don't shoot a production of, I hope we hello and welcome back to the show. My name is no power, compatriot led his own adventures, but will return soon. They call me Ben

and, as always with our super producer, Alexis Codename, Doc, Holliday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you, you are here, and that makes this the stuff. They don't want you to know it's Thursday. If you're listening to this the day it comes out, which means fellow conspiracy release? You may very well make an appearance on today show and if you happen not to be on today, show no worries, tell you how to get on air in the course of this show so stay tuned, we're about to hear from the best part of stuff they do. What you to know, as as we say always, you know, we spend some time

Gower Rien, our food messages of one eight, three, three STD Debbie Whitey K. We also check in with our email conspiracy. It I heard radio dot com. I end. We have a couple stories for you today, one of which is close to home for us and has been garnering a lot of speculation here in the Atlanta metropolitan area this is a developing story. It is a disaster when it may not be appropriate for all audience member. So if you have some kids, you yourself are sensitive to graphic depictions of violence may one of fast forward about fifteen or twenty minutes, but we do believe this is important information. And after that we will be travelling back to the Middle EAST, and

the the danger to journalists and activists around the world, because we had a follow up to a recent strange news, peace. This is an important segment this week. So we do hope you tune in well without further do you know what say we begin close to home and more yeah well too close to home. he asked me I actually found out about this, went through my mom. She sent me attacks and of our how your phone, tax, with my mom tends to tax and big run on blocks, whereas sort of hard to separate the different thoughts for, rummaging referred at the flame text because every girl I've got some friends who could have just one taxes, a block but send like ten one, Senate's pupil That's me, that's me. Are you sub tweeting, meaning for my own outlined earlier? You know, I was thinking. Ok, why'd! You do that I tend to find that help focus. Then I give a separate Thea, but it is a little

as for when you're seeing them, and if you have a god forbid, you have a saddle were monster. Has this anyway sound effect or not, which is, I believe, believe Bolivia Many believe that sea oppressive, but I do it out of courtesy, for readability, but my mom, doesn't it it is using punctuate either. I think that's part of the problems are literally. Is this giant block of tax that look at me. Like I don't know, I can't make heads or tails, but this one year deadline for this kind of news. I get. I get breaking news up as they happen, which is, I think, necessary to stay informed, but also is lucky I have a pretty inhuman sleep schedule as per usual. You know, because I win this news broke. It was rightly terrifying, lotta people well just out of bed hasn't. He and add a little levity. Does it takes came through my mom and they wore whatsoever Listen, I wrote an should discuss. Have you heard

the murders in Piedmont part just across the street from Precedence House, lady, in her dog, we're stabbed to death. She was a bar tender and was walking her dog after work. Betsy wasn't getting. The box of stuff was at least ten pounds. If schools open, I bet the kids will have to wear masks, so they catch anyway. She definitely lead with the right story. had not heard about this, and that is exactly what this is about, and the story- did come to us from from my mom initially, but also from M a listener. hey guys, I'm sure well aware, but there appears to be a serial killer in Atlanta as I reading this obviously couldn't help thinking of Wayne Williams and the child murders and hearing the topic of your podcast today felt Erie. Damn is referring to a previous strangeness episode. A recent strange. These episode aware man brought in the story about new DNA evidence in the Willy Williams case, the Atlanta Chalmers case and then she sends a link to a local tv station that we already w story

on the case. Piedmont park is a big green space here Lana and its true young woman was killed by stabbing when she was out walking her dog and a bent my incorrect in thinking this kind of of to be a relatively safe part of town. I goes back and forth with Google crime, but in General Piedmont Park, has hours operation so you're, not really supposed to be there after dark. I, like many people, have taken advantage of the somewhat lackadaisical security to hang out there at night, but there's a reason that these parts, specific hours? You know you would, depending on where you live, followed conspiracy, realist, I you're. Neighbourhood parts, may have Son sun up to Sundown rules

basically they're, not you, know, nine hundred and twenty five hard hours they're, just if the sun's up the parks open if the sun's down it's closed. This this came as a shock to a lot of people, however, because, as you said, no Piedmont part is known as a big central gathering space. You know its home to a lot of big concerts there, a lot of people who celebrate milestone. Events there it's the picnic spot for a lot of folks, too celebrity, though, when you do go to Atlanta, if you were looking to have a picnic without a huge crowd, try the Jimmy Carter Center, they have a hidden garden in the back, and it's free to go else have a quite fun. This is the stuff. You know, if your local, but to your point not to derail, is Purepoint Yeti. My park is huge. A lot of people use it.

and always its generally been considered a safer area. Yeah may not to be too like inside baseball, our regional, but it has just interesting. The way I am for me is the story to me as more about information and disinformation spreading because again and when the story first, hey Mouth there, there's some details or out of that are quite chilling again around one, a m, the woman in question, Catherine Janis, whose forty years of her body was found. Slain multiple, stab wounds along with her dog wakening, kill the dog just cruel, and there is a ten thousand dollar reward shoes can allow the investigators are offering for identifying the suspect and we said Cyril and wearing a universe by their. There was a second one is well woman was found shot today, a Yellow River Park and when that county and there are,

some similarities kind of, but not really, and it was really does the them not now I think that this is obviously tragic both of these murders, but the only thing leading anybody to say this is a core of course, serial killer, well. If I'm not mistaken in two deaths, do not. Serial Killer, make right a bigger requires at least three. If now are your beer correct and the original post purporting or proposing the idea of a serial killer cited a third homicide, nor cross, which is north of the Atlantic area on law enforcement law enforcement, debunked that third were right and then, as far as I intel. So the initial, like a lot of stuff, was spread through we are all you know, Instagram stories and and and repose, and things like that

twitter user by the name of baby face Killer posted a screenshot, saying, there's a serial killer on the loose in Atlanta. This is so scary, and then like an exclamation mark of a triangle like a warning sign. This is very serious. You ve all heard the Piedmont Park, murder, Shirley, but now FBI, stepping in on the case pointing to the possibility of Assyria being on the loose in Asia and surrounding areas, crime and its heels on common, but these are ass. She was killed when the killer stayed for awhile mutilating, the body in very twisted ways: sugar warning, and this is done we share your warning and then this this post goes on to describe some very specific Grisly mutilations that supposedly we're done too to this corpse, including things like slicing, of body parts in islands and in that and then referred everybody. Those found in Stone Mountain, which is a bedroom community of Lancer, goes on

the reason the only way of identifying the body of the Piedmont where some tattoos is because of the gruesome sick way she was mutilated report. so another female body are coming in this morning from nor cross and ass, the one you talked about, so we about multiple stab wounds, you know in the Piedmont park. Incidents, but now of the mutilations that are being described have been confirmed by police ban and we want. It would also be read and what, if anything, are connecting these three? since then. Is it really just internet hearsay and people trying to spread there are some other tweets to that are due to sing similar things again. Yes I mentioned on this week's strange new segment. Heart of the issue goes

two very well intentioned tendencies towards pattern, recognition which, after after a certain threshold, become pattern creation. Obviously people are frightened Piedmont Park has had its share of crime. over the years, but I believe, according to official sources, this is the first homicide, the part in more than a decade. I ve this story itself grabbed a lot of people's attention, because this is this is a part of the in this part of the city that is considered a workable. You know people pay a premium to live there and walking your dog and park is something that anybody should be.

Able to do safely the idea of mutilation I haven't been able to confirm yet, but the police to did describe the scene of the crime as gruesome. They did confirm. It was a matter of multiple stab wounds, at least in the case of Catherine Janis. Also, also, unfortunately, cameras in the area, including cameras at the entrance of Piedmont, part where apparently not working at the time which that we'll further further speculation here and people are looking for answers at this point, we have to admit that multiple homicides per year do occur in Atlanta, as well as in many other major metropolitan areas.

In the United States, the family, the survivors of JANUS awaiting Tory laying being the person who, as you As was also murdered in Stone Mountain, they find these rumours disheartening. I, if the veto, if well intentioned but What we also see here is the there's a part of that post. I really appreciate reading regarding the FBI's involvement. At this point it looks like it looks like local police. in good, at county and in Fulton, are saying there's no connection between the murders and it looks like there also there also stating that there is no compelling evidence of a serial killer operating at this time, but but this gets back into the idea.

Of true crime and how important it is for us too, to have as many facts at hand as possible before making statements like this, because Serial killers are a relatively rare phenomena, despite what Hollywood would have us believe and whether or not there was a a single assailant involved here. The fact of the matter is that these women are dead and there needs to be a move to bring these folks to justice. So while it may and may make people more likely to pay attention to a story if they believe there is a serial killer of foot, the the hard fact of the matter is

someone, multiple people probably committed murder, they got away and we don't know when or how they will be apprehended and there's a good argument we made. I would say, no, that anything that brings more awareness to this is helpful. More people are alert. More people are thinking twice about their person safety, but also- I don't know man among I'm concerned about this, because I wonder, do you feel like this moves into the realm of exploitation? Or is this just simply people repose? news with the best of intentions, levers talking about these specific gab injuries that appear to have been just pull from like the imagination, somebody's very watch, one too many saw movies to me is exploitative, is a way of getting off by watching people freak out? You know.

Rumour mongering and feeling like some kind of like he'd, have power or something you know I am less of. It there's something, though, that they don't want us to now. At the end, the AP, Ok, the FBI's involves, but that can mean a lot of things I will say that is a little bit suspicious is typically, we ve got the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and if it wasn't something more serious, the gb I would probably be handling it but again, if it, unless there really is someone covering up any details again these these mutilations. It surely does filet that someone just gonna get sick thrill out african people out, but who knows you now? I mean it's very similar to posts. Look. I don't want to diminish anybody, trying to do good by spreading information that they think to be true, but You know there was a big rash over that's all these

Where is going around by people overdosing on drugs that were laced with me, now been contaminants like sentinel and things like that, and I know that there's probably some truth to that end. It probably happened, but then start seeing them pop up in other cities, and it feels very much like a copy passed, a kind of situation where someone Caesar and then they start reposing in reposing and where there might be some layer of truth to it. Is it the epidemic that people are making it out to be an independent and what's the reasoning behind them saying these things are directly connected by mistake, as it is a shining example when you see something You want to be the one to share them the noose. You want to be the one to love to give people the open in and help people like look out for themselves or their friends, so you early think twice something's grisly enough or scary enough, you're, probably posted, without fact checking it. Alot of Amsterdam, and guilty other and I've had to double back and make sure that I don't do that without you know,

I don't know what I'm talking about a little bit more about what you think I do have some You, your Nolan. I suggest we pause for a moment for a word from our sponsors and returned it to dive in just a bit further. This podcast is supported by the Showtime documentary series. You F, o of four part exploration confronting the most enigmatic question of all. Why do we believe what we leave from the legendary J J Abrams UFO explores the most unbelievable sightings of our time featuring insiders. And the Pentagon secret UFO programmes and confirmed by the New York Times get in India Look at explosive first person, testimonies and extra terrestrial footage venture closer the truth of the world's most mysterious phenomenon. All episodes we are now streaming only on show time

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or by going to lifelong dotcom, slash conspiracy, that's life locked out com, slash conspiracy for twenty five percent. off. We all want to be Third, when we're not its frustrating, it doesn't matter what it is. Look you order a sandwich with extra extra avocado. Then you get the sandwich, nothing, nada, zip look you, and I both know. Extra avocado is a weird request and extra extra avocado, as is even weirder, but that's not the point you just want to be heard in when you're, not, it doesn't feel good, but no, who is listening and making changes, though eighty anti they're doing whatever takes to show that all of their customers voices are heard through there every customer, both new and existing the same great deal Are you hearing this? No matter? If you been them forever or our thinking Jumping over every single person gets this.

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I completely agree with you know there is something to the human personality, exacerbated by social media, and it is this. Human beings want to be promethean. It want to breathe bringer of light and knowledge, even if it's, even if it's them real reposted. Something that's why people steel ideas, import that those ideas are their own, all the time, whether it's a meme, whether its aphorism, what It's an invention, whether it's a song et cetera people want to be the person who brings knowledge, and some people are opposed to even admit. That their learning something this is an abstract problem with human hardware, but we see it writ large again, probably with the best of intentions by people and social media. In this case, peep

tried to warn their friends. Nobody wants to lose a stranger nobody, even once the Louis people they dislike to something is horrific as homicide, but you have to think of the survivors in the family here because short local law enforcement is saying that there's rampage. information about these tragedies right now and then they have denied that there is any evidence of his cereal murderer the eyes involved, as you said I, but on the other side we are when we look at the the human side of people, who have lost. You know their life partner. People have lost their daughter, were the relative or their close friend there. On the other side of this saying things like this guy had something I thought

cycle and important to say during the vigil fur Janis that occurred this past Sunday night. He says quote: she was a wonderful spirit. I dont want that to be stained with things that your hearing now I want you to focus on the joy and love of Katy. She can imagine how thou traumatic it can be. You know to have lost some one

in such a heartbreaking way and then hop on your phone or your social media of choice and fine, lurid unverified reports right that that sound Blake will, frankly that could that could be interpreted as pitches for some episode and true crime series. There's something almost me about that and again you know we have to be careful here, because people are overwhelmingly coming from very good intentions from a very good place. They just don't want more people to die, which is totally understandable and if you, if you want to help someone in this situation specifically if you want to help Katy Janis Tory Lang, you can

look into the resources that the relatives and local law enforcement have made available like, as we record today, there's a ten thousand dollars reward being offered to anyone with information on Janice's murder. You can call a PD homicide at four hundred and four five hundred and forty six four thousand two hundred and thirty five or you can call crimestoppers at four hundred and four five thousand seven hundred and seventy Ips is also a gofundme page. You saw that as well. Yes, then I have one last question from familiar: where is it a little Sus the turf be eyes involve, though, for just stabbing. I mean that no stabbing certainly grizzly and creates a lot of the outcry and people's imaginations tend to run wild, especially you know, with the dog being killed as well. That certainly seems like kind of fetishistic You know, but much more so than a crime of opportunity. Maybe, but why do you think the FBI's involved for this,

in case, if they're saying there's not a pattern, which is certainly doesn't seem right there, as in the other park, was like almost half an hour away again. At least twenty miles away was a shooting Nada stabbings up and now we were promised conjecture this point, but do you have any thoughts as to why, in an isolated case like this, just because stabbing business, see my reason to bring in the FBI unless there's something else going on yeah. It's a good question. No and I would be misleading If I said, I had anything more than speculation regarding FBI involvement here, but we can confirm again the FBI's looking into it. If we can, find the internal recently or, if any of our fellow conspiracy realist can provide us with. That reasoning, then will be, will be glad to learn more. But at this point I am not I'm not specifically able to disclose were conjecture as to why the FBI,

I specifically about ok. Well, I think I will probably be keeping an eye on this. Certainly, and maybe there will be more information that comes out of it. As of now. I think we can say bye the information that we have. This is likely not a serial killer and we have nothing backing up any of these more intensely over the top. You know grisly aspects of the crime agreed and we will update if more information comes to light. Our next piece of correspondence today comes from not yet comin in sea naughty. A common and see who says this is a fake, Alias for the eliminates about rights to us, with a tremendously in sight for follow up to our earlier strange news story: I'd s so, and the now infamous Pegasus malware, spyware, never want to call it the software that is helping state level regimes, murder, innocent people, high

says not yet come in and see pleased not use. My name. I want to explain a little bit more about Pake assisting company similar to initial I'm trying to write this so that it is a form of, but every one is protected. That's what caught my eye here naughty and no. I do want to know that this is a there's, a pretty lengthy letters, we're going to paraphrase a little and we're going to use some excerpts, but we're going to make sure you get the soul of what's being said here. They continue say there is private technology for hire, for whoever can pay the bill. Nso was just one company and the company with the worst reputation for having no scruples in business, their private sector companies. But honestly, I find that questionable because they are outrageously capable they can fly any until free sample real time satellite feeds where the information obtained from real time satellite

This information can be used to identify when and where illegal fishing or illegal waste dumping is happening. For example, whenever someone here's a tool is used by law enforcement, they expect the CIA in secret hits Nesbit Notch. This is not always the case. There's a lot of section of the environment comes about from the use of companies similar to inessa blots, not in So the number one piece of evidence in a crime is the data mind from cellphones all the contacts any tales of meetings photo evidence of the crime, etc is on the phone if all the criminal code tax can be linked to the organization of a crime. Then you can take down the entire. AIR criminal organization. The phone information is valuable, my dream is for an agency to ring, Rico charges against some of the criminals. It is still the investigative agency to prove a crime was committed, so spyware is really just a tool A federal judge can give permission for wiretaps and access to bank records. These

things combined as well as I witness testimony will make a case watertight. I guess I'm trying to say that there are people are doing a lot of good with the same technology, and it is not that easy to get in on someone's phone. So it is not on my phone and your phone and his farm. He up makes I mean that make sense, and I think that's a very valid point. This goes on. Naughty comin in sea says. Finally, it's important that these airlines companies have scruples ding Ding Ding, we put the dingey in there. I say I am a russian mobster parentheses, a lot of Russians and ex russian mobsters using and doing this technology in parentheses, my employee, it MIKE firm ran off with five hundred thousand dollars and Bitcoin, and I want to find him. I can hide.

one of these companies to find them, so they can negotiate my money back for finder's fee now. If there is honor among thieves and this mobster legit just once his money back in an honourable company might help him but say they want to kill him and get their money back and said. Something honourable company would help with, and maybe they would not even help Russia mobster in the first place, these by companies have all the info their fingertips, they know can find out who their working for they can decide who to helping who not to help me can also filter information they give back. The client cannot listen, go through a pig assist phone does Pegasus apostrophe D when they hire someone to spy for them. The spying agency goes through the until decide, what's relevant. What's not what to tell the client what's not to hold if there is no evidence,

crime. There's no info to offer case closed, so they act as a middle man. These private companies active certified informants on international cases, fascinating, a double edged sword with this kind of stuff, and we can use it for evil? Then people can use it for good and vice versa. You can always put the script and take something as we see it all the time with this type of technology, and of course this is the kind of surveillance staff that you could use against bad guys. You know like that, much more helpful and efficient then say wiretaps and all that guidelines surrounding wiretaps and how long you can listen and all of that female. I mean it's just not to be a broken record, but on the sopranos. Tony soprano buys a son, a ass, you ve and whenever certainties like, I pulled out that Jp Ash batter there, but this is yet. The sopranos was in the days before cellphones before, like smartphones look at the phones. Everyone has now show their all like. You know that

spread type flip phone. So it wasn't even something that people considered and you got a wonder if people in organised crime- and I know they're- probably using smart phones for personal stuff I bet they still use burner, phones, firm, actual illegal relations, or they have some kind of stuff.

encryption on their devices, not sound too old school flat. But there's something to be said for technology. There would be considered archaic. It's a little bit easier to to make sure that the people your reaching or the people you want to reach and no one's listen. Yonder on the line. You know I am not saying all paper ciphers and dead drops, but don't be surprised that people still use some of those because they work. What I think not yet seen here is that we have to be careful not to lump all these private sector intel companies into one pocket naughty. I do appreciate that you agreed with us from from a position of expertise and credibility in S, so does have one of the worst reputations here end in in return reciprocity. I I agree that these agencies are not all necessarily doing no fun.

These things, but in a so clearly, as we said, no previous segment, inner so clearly is claiming that they are not aware. Slash not responsible for, for the stocking of like a shaggy is family deaths that have been traced to agencies using Pegasus in Mexico and in other places around the world, and we aimed to be very, very fair. fair to the best of our ability. With the information we had when we presented in a Sou company statements, and when we presented the accusations of these journalists, but let's pause for were from our sponsor. Then what was dive into this

a little bit more while we're on break everybody check your phone, ask yourself what sought it what's going on. This is ridiculous history, who are we will I'm bad? I'm no amiss episode is broadly by further the loom. We love for the live with officially become friends with the entire bran entire staff. A fruit of the loom and we love them so much that we did an entire episode about the history of underwear in partnership with them, and we love this episode so much that we found some best of moments from the brief history of underwear. That was all you been great word play there. Let's hear him and then the ancient Roman The least sexy name for an undergarment you're going to get in this whole show, and I almost have a hard time pronouncing it. At least I had to do a double take. When I first read the words I believe, then it is Subligar Baculum,

who came up with their Jacqueline, a Roman with the love of tongue? To us, I suppose so any sort of an advanced, loincloth, harangue yeah I got a little more upward thigh coverage is Canada is think of them, like short shorts. Now, folks, who know what you're thinking that was pretty cool Where do I hear more? I want more than just the moments I at all of the moment. You can have it all its true. All you gotta do is go to the Iheartradio, APP radio, podcast apple anywhere on or anywhere on, the internet, where's podcast are found and look up ridiculous history. The brief history of underwear loved this episode of stuff. They don't want you to know, was brought. You buy better help if you're feeling depressed struggling with your relationship, maybe you're having difficulty sleeping better help offers online professional councillors, who can listen and help better help can assess your needs.

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How do you gotta get on their Ben? I know, is it has to do with like you can get a face time? all that you don't even have to answer, and it can actually thou oil there they're there are some really Craig. Think of will always thought of. First, I will always thought of MAX is being impervious to virus. viruses are only four pcs we said and then of course, the true anymore of the longest time that we seem to me to be a blissfully, be no impervious to viruses were cellphones are concerned. but others too. That's why I guess that's interesting developments also has been around for a while longer than we realized ripe. Yet no, I think, that's a really that's a really good point, because Originally Pegasus would send

a malware link and you have to click on that link at least, and then you would be. You would get part, but now, like you said it can install itself with simply a mist, call I'd. What's app, Eve is the platform that adds the one size it s new, perfect. I'm sure I'm sure there's work going on to make it even more easily transmissible right now.

the only way to get rid of Pegasus completely is to discard the foe like you have. You cannot really wipe it. You have to discard the phone and then, secondly, because this is, if you look out objective- this is brilliant. Does I, but, secondly, to not here common and sees point these companies do have the ability to act as a middle man to filter information, and if they have the ability to filter information, then does that not logically mean they seeing the information. Does that not logically mean they are able to draw some conclusions about how this information is gonna be use, like you see, a journalist, family members show weighed up right and and tell us going through Pegasus right, yeah

and later that journalists is dismember as vivisecting, then is it it? Lake is unfair to say that they probably could have figured out what the software was being used for. I just I don't know, I don't have all the facts, but it seems like a doesn't seem like an argument in good faith. Does it make sense, my being too hard on him? No, I don't think so. I think you're being too hard on them at all, but let us foot back to the you know the positive just for the sake of it. We know probably largely from fiction, ensure Grimes stuff that career criminals, professional criminals are very paranoid about this kind of stuff. I think that and paranoia started to filter. It's just you know. Regular civilians is because of all the surveillance state type stuff that were reading about and first hand, but do you think it take more to. In fact, a criminal someone. You are actually trying to survey Al Munifi

Rico type cases. Would it take more? a clever back door then say just like fishing, scam, or or even like a whatsapp, call that maybe someone wasn't expecting. I would think you see Cecy mom, his throne cell phones out the window all the time. I am just wondering like to get this done and to do it affected they would there need to be even further. Were clever ways of infecting someone's phone with us yeah. That's the race! That's a good question as well, because I right now This is the main stream recently, but in the industry, pagan sis is old beings.

People know about it: Whatsapp, Microsoft, Google, all the other, kids, all the all, the all the hits they continually or patching security loopholes that allowed Pegasus to function, but that doesn't mean the researchers are the Pegasus in a suicide, stop doing that research, their new variants of Pegasus, that'll, probably come out to with Diff, or more sophisticated exploits there a couple ways to think about a thing about your question: you're with organised crime. First, it's it would be hilarious if it wasn't so dangerous, but I think the average person would be surprised by how many high level criminal and, like legal state level operations, do dummy things. Knucklehead things like have the administrator password for their system. Be you do admin, or

then one two three this this seems like a huge misstep, but it's not an uncommon when even today, as, secondly, it's tough, because the more people you have in any operation. The more opportunities for exploits naturally come to exist, and all it takes is just one person who's a little bit. Sloppy knocking Dac Enrico everyone. You know what I mean, so it's in its new surprised that some criminal organizations have very specific, pretty extreme rules about how they use telecommunication devices knew these devices are a necessity now for a lot of people, especially if you're looking at international crime, but one of the best when it one of the best things that people have on their side when it comes to something like Pegasus, is that Pegasus is not really something

the average person could buy. You notice their act, Sir Somethin, like that it closely Millions of dollars to to you Is you have to have some sophisticated handling? This is the opposite of plug in play, it's not like, your view, a or whatever this software, the journalist, walls are saying that it is being used to target. High value, high value folks who the most of the world would not think of his criminals, like lawyers, journalists, politicians when people who might have access to top secret information via their device? You know and like it's like you and I and are right or die Matt a number of years, we were stranded in the Atlantic Airport and we made with fruit for like eighteen hours or so they know of for a while, but it did seem

dirty Gore of your talking about our friendly maids, yeah yeah and you I always. I was going back and forth on whether say his name on here, but he's either. We converted Zika vanished further. The showed our ed aside from being a magnificent guy and duty for listening. I hope it worked out with the girl. Take you for taking a picture for listening to us, or we're weirdly specific advice, but he had something interesting. May God, in his line of work, he had some pretty tight upset on his work. Computer, wasn't doing any spy stuff. You know he must all work and with financial, and it was great at a walk- is through it because you, obviously we we're not gonna, try to take advantage of any body, but also I dont know. If you remember this, there was that moment where I just had a very politely say two of your hey man. This is

fascinating role. Nerds will have seen other stuff stuff works, but I don't know if you should be telling subdued you just met at the airport which, if hilarious? Well, I remembered choose the first time. I've ever seen something this now pretty commonplace least you know, in terms of like three factor, authentic authentication but he had a thumb drive that had like a constant changing key. If constantly update like out of timer like having every like ten minutes them like that, a changed and he had to you put in a new key. There was actually physically displayed somewhere like on an app adamantly hours, but, as you know, there are these off indicator programmes. Now that you know the keys literally are always on a cycle in changing and you have to enter in the new one and if you miss it by a couple seconds and it won't work, so I just you know proves that you have access to the device is probably that kind of multi factor authentication

encryption will maybe be more of a thing and get more robust and as that evolved, we will see attempts to break that security layer evolve in step its continuing kind of policy, this might be too old school for some people, but If you remember the mad magazine, comic Strip, spy versus spy shirts, that's essentially that that's essentially what's happening, but I really appreciated your point. There are not only not all of these things are inherently bad. Indeed, All technology is like fire way said earlier, a canoe, warm you save your life or it can be You and your house doubt technologies ever been a double edged sword and whether you're dealing with your smartphone.

Or whether you dealing with weird email on your laptop, whether even your cars GPS is doing something weird. It's important to keep that in mind. Technology is only as ethical as the people who wield it and with that I think we can leave it there. We hope you enjoy this week's listener mail. I thank you so much to em think is much not yet, and we cannot wait to hear from you. I if you want to take a page out of their book and contact us. We have so many ways to do it. we tried to be easy to find online. Please give us biggest, please don't please direct your non Pegasus tainted missives to us. The

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