Here's the thing: saving money with Geico was almost better than playing pick up basketball, because there's always that guy who joined your game He never passes the rock he constantly. Rex theories, and who completely happy when, put his hands up and say no foul, no foul with Geico it's easy to switch. Save on car insurance. No, the vacant ankle sprain, because you're absolutely exhausted. So we can save with Geiger it's almost better than sport. We quickly found ourselves in tough times that none of us could have predicted justice. Four months ago, small businesses and individuals are experiencing really hard times with their personal finances. That's why we ve wrapped up here many episode releases to three times a week: S Rigel! That's why We you and I we break down these timeless money truths as well as timely money and from and that you need to know to put yourself in a strong financial position, making it easier to whether these uncertain times like are currently experiencing so listeners,

Oh, how the money on the eye, radio, up apple, podcast or wherever you isn't a casts from with those two psychic powers and government conspiracies history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff. They don't want you to know Welcome back to the show my name is met and they call me Ben your joint without were super producer, Paul Deck and, most importantly, you are you who are here, and that makes this stuff. They don't want you to know today. We bring you two worlds that will smash together the word of science, rocketry physics and the occult the mysteriously the void,

Absolutely in that sounds maybe like a little bit of hyperbole, but it's absolutely true. Today's episode, centres on something that the three of us find fascinating and we hope you find it fascinating to it's a lie. All known cover up that was quite successful for decades. It occurs in the United States and it does, as you said, met combining the pleading edge of science with the hidden there. We say a cultured heart of the dark arts How different are they really will get into that too the exploration of mankind's abilities, that's really! What both of those pursuits are. What can we achieve either with our hands or through our mind and through some other plain that may be spiritual rights, and this also

calls to mind the old Sci Fi Quotation, any sufficiently advanced technologies indistinguishable from magic right. There you have it. That is the end that encapsulates this episode. Yes, let's start at beginning, Marvel White Side, Parsons, yeah, there's, not a comical character, is real, is no great. Nigeria is Marvel. Whiteside Parsons is born on October. Second, nineteen fourteen, in LOS Angeles, California, is also known as Jack. That's what he becomes known Yes, yes, and from his early childhood days, Jack has an abiding trust in a rocketry at this point in the early twentieth century right the jury still seeing very much as it is a science fiction thing, that's where it exists in the pages of fiction of drawings, of what a rocket could be

like right people, Andy on various lunar shores, weird space, Roxanne, meeting, Yell Martians, perhaps Martians yeah some sort of some sort of alien that functions. Stand in for whatever ideology. The author dislikes, you there's a lot of was a communism in space at the time of allegory yeah, especially with naked allegory. Allegory remain, but Jack, swallows, stuff hook line and see. He loves, it loves it and I think a lot of us can understand that feeling right in nineteen, twenty eight jack and his friend, the Ganem S Foreman start experimenting with rockets on an amateur level. May have you ever done this when you were a kid, did you ever maker and launch those model rockets you and it's about the right time,

and he was fourteen. He was doing this when I was in middle school to high school. My friends gotten. I would spend a lot of time in the backyard experimenting with chemicals, a hand with the cardboard tubes actually, which is something that Jack also did hey Paul! What about you? Do it where you rocket man, a rocket boy, so conspiracy, realists fellow listeners, our super producer Paul has asked to relate to you, because you won't record his own voice because you can get em. I make. He asked us to relate to you that he like many of us as a child, but the right model rocket kids in Spain, with them in the back yard. I know that there was an element of danger. Oh yeah, there's like there's an explosion that happens

This thing goes up in the air really high and then usually, at least in my experience- blows up to some extent and Jack persons to let the badger out of the bag. Here he is from a wealthy family, very wealthy family, a very well to do for him and he gets some leeway experimenting with these rockets. Something allotted kids to maybe afford to do, and even if they can afford to do it? Not many of them have ingenuity. Perhaps here to do this, so his parents, back yard, is filled with craters, very soon after he begins experimenting with stuff and his neighborhood is littered with the flaming bits of paper and scorched car, Bored tubes yeah misses a year before the great depression, its by the way in eighteen. Twenty,

so everybody's Livin live in the high life, should not rockets in their backyard well at least jackets right right and as parsons informing go to high school. They become captivated with how ingenious is that they become captivated with the idea of creating a solid fuel rocket engine, and this concept at the time is widely considered. Copycat nonsense. If you can't happen, why would you study that right now? Yes, what are you? What are you a buffoon? Yes, I know what I mean and get on the liquid stuff and if God meant rockets to travel to space wooden? God have put them they're already? Yes, sir, What are those exactly but Parsons? Also as a kid?

long meandering, teenage conversations. Sure we can all identify with some with those situations like when you, when you're a teenager you off get involved in these epic marathon, relations. You hang up Oh, you hang up in here right so who is who is parsons talking to his he's talking to someone who was born two years before him, who was also fairly young man at the time. A man named Werner VON Brown, magnet maximilian. Von brown bears and there's a lot more names in their yeah. You might remember this fellow. He is kind of become a name on the show. We talk about him. Quite often the he's the former Nazi scientists to help to develop the v to rocket for the for the Nazi Party, and then he was secretly brought over the. U S view that operation paperclip that we speak

about where over sixteen hundred scientists were brought to the United States, and then you know he went on to develop the Saturn five heavy lift vehicle that was used in the APOLLO programmes. It took us to the moon as well as the original rockets that started the United States Space Programme and there's like there's a whole host of things that he did for this country and for rocketry in general. Yes, sir, it's a little bit of an eye opener for anybody who just start listening to our show to learn that the NASA institution, as we understand it, would not be capable of the feats it is capable of yeah without Nazi engineering and ingenuity. Yet again, at this point, he's just a young

I get it, I feel you know. I feel weird saying nazi ingenuity. We do have to point out. Abrasion paperclip was a genuine conspiracy and cover up that occurred. Allow The american public did not know about it would not learn about it for some time, but. Many of those scientists were not necessarily They were not ideological, not snowboard, just minds in their fields, yeah and they missed. Some of them were we their cause. They couldn't get out a Germany before things went south, certainly so that states that this is all this all stuff that neither Parsons nor VON Braun know about at this time there just to rocket nerds. Now, just talking on the phone and, as he said, met the great

pressure hits here in the: U S, we usually think of the great depression just in terms of its effect on this country, but the great depression has consequences that touch the entire globe right now, very few people, except arguably the people responsible for these situation, escape unscathed. In most countries, the great pressure starts in nineteen twenty nine last until the late nineteenth thirties, and because of this Parsons family is not elite enough to survive the situation. So, instead of becoming increasingly aristocratic, they lose a ton of money, and this prevents him from completing

his higher education at Pasadena, Junior College and Stanford University, and he alternately drops out there. Then, in a moment of I don't know, I guess this is just opportunity fortune in nineteen thirty, three our gentlemen here, Jack Parsons in his friend had foreman. They approach another man named Frank Molina, and he at this point as a graduate student Caltech, California Technical Institute, and they ask for his help for his expertise, because he's already kind of working in these fields like how can you help us with rocket research that we want to do the were so passionate about right and luck leaf, were then Frank is a pretty open minded guy. He says you know what yeah I'll team up with you, the abbots, we're. Ok, sure, let's do this guy's. They must have come to him with something very calm

Telling will also his field of study concerns rocketry, yell exactly button, but again it is for them to team up together. The other two gentlemen, Ed and Jack must have had some pretty good schematics or some some math and science worked out to have Molina. Go yes well to do this right? Yes, what's a good partnership for these guys because Frank is bringing scientific rigour, yes, academic discipline and these rocket heads to this in a chair, the records reckoning, These. These other rocket heads are bringing a lot of practical knowledge and experience. No enough about like a tree to ask intriguing question: ass, an intriguing questions are the best way to talk to a grad student anywhere grad students in the eye as you know exactly what I'm talking about these unanswered questions that perhaps we could be the ones to discover the dream.

Firstly when their niece, because You have to imagine it this time, it's safe to say that Frank Molina is probably in need of some one to talk with about rocketry. Because we're we're in the days. You know the mid nineteen thirties everything up until this point. We kind of mentioned earlier rocketry the whole idea of jet propulsion. These kinds of things it's just it's something of the future- is something that you read in a book somewhere right into work of fiction nowadays in twenty eighteen. Is we record this? The phrase rocket scientist is almost always used as a synonym for gene usually in the sarcastic way right, but back in the nineteen thirties pre world were to most people did as, as you said, math think rocketry was ridiculous. Eccentric, impractical, you know, suicides a sort of hunt for

fools gold in the sky handling would be, give. You went out to a bar right now and someone introduced himself to you as a as they get a teleportation its specialist or something to that of regular research. I researched, teleportation teleportation is you're here hook. Oh ok, well see later right. What are you really do I? Well, I attempt to teleport things instantaneously through space and time at this point, it's it's mostly on paper button we're getting there. We ve done some very interesting things with very small bits of matter yeah. I had told you see that that's an interesting person, maybe as far as a stranger, but that's not that doesn't sound like it's. It's a real thing: yeah we're probably not looking to get into any gotta

in this venture with that person. At this point, so these guys are not being taken seriously. Jack, Parsons, Ed, forming Frank Molina are not being taken seriously. They form a group called Gaol sit rocket research group there ridiculed by professors and learned individual ass of Caltech, the even get a nickname yeah we're the suicide squad, not the Dc Universe, Ip Badia the suicide squad, and it's it's really just due to the reckless nature of what they do, how they perform their experiments, These things explode, which is mainly regains its mainly parsons he's a. Are you familiar with the stand? I am ok, so any adaptation,

and in the novel itself, which is which is better than the adaptation, no knock on the adaptation. But in the novel the stand there is a character called the garbage man trash. Can man? That's it. That's his name, and trash. Can man without spoiling the story and without just being wonderful to say yes, trash came in, has a weird fascination with blowing things up a little bit of trafficking. Man and Jack Parsons, Parsons and trash came in o totally, and so it's not rise at the people were used to more buttoned up conservative experiments and methodologies. Snow surprised that they think this guy is just somewhere between tune in a terrorist. Oh yeah, oh yeah! Well, it's not like he conducts himself in any

his manners. It you're speaking these guys would probably sitter themselves and acted like a hot pardieu but no for real, like they Walker on campus. Like hey, are you doing rocket, scientist Ladys and also Look a little part, probably drink talk about socialism here, they hung out a do. It wasn't just hanging out to build and talk about rockets. They did have so wise and you spend their time together and they party there goes the suicide squad. By the way. I know you you know had mentioned this before and specifically I think you have mentioned this but castle rock just because we got into a Stephen Kenya, novel their castle, rock and finally starting to watch, and I could not could not recommended more how far

I'm only three episodes it, but I'm just loving all the little bits and pieces I keep picking up from the universe, I'm very interested to hear what you think about the end, because the whole seasons out now. It is odd that makes me happy, I think tenant Ok, so without seeing any more knocker, I dont know how to direct this in a way they want spoil it. For you met how about this. I would love to hear what you think about this man. I know you were too, but we don't want to spoil it format, so if you have strong opinions I would love to hear them. I'm a little conflicted about the end. You can write to me directly so that it doesn't Gerda right a conspiracy. Just put. Conspiracy House of words, like I'm, just put a little note in there that says at the top Matt don't read this area great.

Great yeah. I want I want to hear what people think cuz it did get renewed, so trash can man aside suicide squad aside, Parsons isn't completely counterculture in nineteen thirty five, while in nineteen thirty four, he needs a woman at a church, dance, credibly, common way to me, people at the time and in nineteen, thirty five! He marries her. Yes, Miss Helen Northrop, who is the sister, the older sister, I believe, of Sarah Northrop Hollister and that's gonna come into play a little later, so we're we're not going to expand on that. If you know that is, you can just put a little low feather in your cap and if you are the sort of person who cheats, crosswords and trivial

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Rex theories and who completely happy when put his hands up and say no foul, no foul with Geico, it's easy to switch. Save on car insurance, known the vacant ankle sprain because you're absolutely exhausted, so we do some crazy things like by a world class german blade factory obsessing over every detail means were confident and offering a hundred per cent quality. I know a lot of people dealt with It is a moral or ethical quandary, some of you. Who to borrow the line from d and e were very lawful good about it. I will not cheat I will wait to hear the story. Yeah did you did you eat? one marshmallow now, or did you wait until after the outbreak to get to marshmallows yeah re? Or did you decide? I do what I want he's doing what I what should be the entirety of. Oh

Why are there so many Easter eggs area are going back to persons, so they can can you, despite the ridicule to make multiple breakthroughs in these? study and manufacture of engines, but more ordinarily rocket fuel, the other fuel for those engines exactly. They actually received the first government funding for a rocketry research group, at least in the U S and You know it's! This isn't something that our arch and Missus friends. No man, membrane, nemesis, Slash, Rent Jonathan circulate. He would call it a princely some, but you know what they do get where they give it. One grand they get us They get a single stuck with me, and that is a nice stack at the time right, especially in thirty three and here's the thing:

they pretty much the they have to spend about twenty five percent of it about quarter of this thousand dollars. Good chunk, budget and repair in damage to buildings, on the Caltech campus damage. You say they just did the blow and stuff up later, although their release, and also they asked for a lot more than a thousand dollars. Yes, they got a thousand dollars so that they have to spend a bunch of money, repairing the campus and the damage They ve done to it. Eventually they have to move from. The camp is entirely due to the danger posed by the explosives and they relocate to the Arroyo Seko Canyon, their conducting experiments and someone's watching them. Oh yeah, who is that Oh yeah, the Federal Bureau of Investigation is watching them the FBI yet,

I think, generally, when you're, making explosives or things that can explode, that's you're gonna get analysed and they did. They dig it up This also side note- maybe maybe we should come up with some alternate. Some alternate interpretations of the FBI. Acronym, ok, but fully bundled. Hence the two seconds: it fun boys, international. That's it that's a fine boys international with ASEAN. And the boy, oh my gosh right, let us know if that's a good teacher idea bison inasmuch as we could get the we can get the FBI look

in one of the reasons there are very much interested in these gentlemen in their pension to blow things up is because they're interested in extremists of any sort. That might want to get with these guys and or just blow things up on the site where there now located in that Arroyo, sick, okay, right right, because they are literally just in a couple: a run down sheds iron shuts, security is not very high, so in addition, being aware of these, these rocket heads political leanings. And the ideologies with which the identify the FBI is also aware of the fact that someone with political extremists would be what we call a terrorist today, that that someone could ride up their enforce neighbours and firearms and take the explore

Please take these chemicals, maybe even take this technology and launch a rocket and a bank. It is city, you know, or just blow it up from the ground level or just blow it up, that's right without even bothering to deliver the rocket. So this is when the FBI, for is there. I am Parsons in CO in nineteen forty one, the suicide squad found the Arrow jet Engineering Corporation to sell rockets to the military. The same is to previously derided in pooped impressed on persons. Work now are lining up around the block across the country to join this booming industry. Cause Uncle SAM has officially opened up his wallet near an uncle SAM's. While it is big it is that those so big it. So of tat. You don't like any.

The same does ever really know how much is in that, while it cause it's kind of infinite and sometimes out that money just disappears in the level of trillions? And yes, weird little black budgets or the palette of let's see a billion dollars can disappear Recent memory and bear make a mention in the news I get on a plane minute. I didn't see you get off. Did you see it get off? I don't know where it is gone by applying doctor. Who knows who knows we to Sally? We weigh these things fright. Get back to the real issues. Ok, something's, social and insignificant perfect we has. Has this show made a cynical? No has this made you cynical if you're listening. That is that we have had a few people right about that. That's true! it's true and you and I have been in situations where the void stared back yeah here the abyss stared, but I feel like it can always staring

Do you choose to see it or not near me? In the main, the abyss of and making some smouldering eye contact? Recently NATO made some small. I contact with the dude earlier today. All bore you with those details, yeah. I was gonna spring there. I ask you to mention that story at the end We can do that at the end. What you'll be ok with that's perfect? Ok in that's! This is appalling, Matt story, so. We'll have to wait till the end. We're we're building up expectations, man, we better deliverers listless! Do it just like these guys? Let's deliver a pale hurt there we go now again refuses to be recorded on this show because he is worried about his future political career, but he did previously.

On the MIKE and chuckled did he gave me a little George, W Bush chuckle wise and push by doubt that those great deliver the payload okay, so the industry's booming right nineteen, forty three there's this need for advanced research into rockets and its growing exponentially, because other countries researching this and just as the? U S is concerned about the technological innovations occurring in rival countries. Today, the? U S is concerned back, then of possible technological gap neck as we have you know, you always have to be ahead of your enemy. That's that's the whole point that military think and, as we discussed in previous episodes, nation states don't have friends they have interests, is so poor

since cofounders. This thing called the jet propulsion laboratory that you ve, probably heard of before the J, p l J P and they went with his term jet propulsion. At the suggestion of one of the suicide squad. Members, the third man Molina Indeed, the holiday was to avoid the stigma associated with that idea or term rocket rocketry right ragged, just as it as a phrase. It turned a lot of people off we're just interested in this. A jet propulsion sounds nice to his newly jets. No talent, that's perfect! Since this do things together, the means of transportation, their pre gaming before they go into a meeting and they're just coaching themselves, not to say the are were ripe. Soap, persons and his associates without going to deepen to this. They plea

crucial role in the development of rocketry technology, which jet propulsion as real war to shifts into high gear it's nice to using your jets. Your talent, that's perfect, since those two things together, just the means of transportation, their pre gaming. Before they go into in particular, because he is the mad jet fuel genius, which is also cooling name. So we could spend our entire episode focusing just on his contributions field of rocketry as well as his obsession with blowing things. In general, but there is more to this story. You see

Persons had another obsession, one that was even stranger than rocket science and we're gonna go down that Rapid hall after another quick word from our sponsor: hey, I'm Andy! If you don't know me, it's probably because I'm not famous, but I did start immense grooming company called Harry's. The idea for Harry's came out of a frustrating experience. I had buying razor blades, most brains were overpriced over designed and out of touch at Harry's. Our approaches him here's our secret. We make sharp, durable, blades and seldom at honest prices for his lower two dollars. Each we care about quality so much that we do some crazy things like by a world class german blade factory upset. Over every detail means were confident and offering a hundred percent quality guarantee. Millions of as I have already made, the switch to Harry's. So thank you. If you're one of them and if you're not, we hope you give us a try with the special

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crazy? In addition to being obsessed with rockets in rocketry Jack persons was obsessed with the occult? Yes, the coach. Yet really, these are what our colleague Lord, Obama call actual facts right. He is not only obsessed with the cold, but there is a strange concordance, strange confluence and concurrence of events. Here because as his career as one of the likely, the world's best rocket scientist jet propulsion, scientist I'll ya, think you met size as his as his reputation grows there, his association with

the court also grows in deepens. Any moves up the rank here in these esoteric organizations, one in particular. Yes, the o t o, so so in the late nineteenth thirties. He parsons begins going to these nightly meetings at the of the LOS Angeles chapter of the order, Temple E orientalists or the audio ends in a cold, city, and it was. It was formed by gentlemen that you also may know from this show, while all the hits in this episode Ollinger once Mr Alister cruelly. Can we get a sinister sound to you for that Paul oh oh, yes, quite appropriate for the master of the dark arts. So at this time a home, Mister Crawley, notice, I say cruelly and Crowley. We

from our mistakes here. People at this time, he's known as the wickedest man in the world he's got quite the reputation Yan in English. Oldest ceremonial magician, con man. All these things. Am artist. Yeah novelist does weird things in an old ancient egyptian temples. Yet I end and explore. He is a british fellow born in eighteen, seventy five and, as you said, he is the founder of. Maybe he received the discoverer ass, a profit of the audio and where. When Parsons is first going to these things, he's he's a young guy he's in is like early twenties in he's seen something that

he would. He would have never seen before rights. He is watching magical rituals yeah being performed, and this affects him deeply, but it's easy to say that some one sees a ritual and it affects them deeply. That's what religion is about. Yeah these ritual- are much more graphic. Then the typical rituals you would encounter in most organised religions yeah cause we're talking about ex magic. Ultimately, we were talking about chaos, magic rituals, that a lot of times involve blood and other bodily fluids in acts of cardinal nature. Let's say

or in in this is, you know he gets married in nineteen, thirty, five and then now or in the late thirties, and this time, as he's really kind of coming into his own, as a scientist in this field is right. It, like you, said of that same time as before world were too. This is before a lot of the huge advancements in his career, as he is beginning to go to these meetings, but he is like fairly newly married end. Now I can imagine what that relationship was like behind the closed doors, what it was like, knowing that your husband is out going to these things. Well, every relationship is a foreign country dance ranked day each each interaction we have with any other person, specially romantic interaction, obeys its own laws and rituals yeah for sure

and wool, and the fact that the whole sex magic blood magic thing is not the only thing going on. Oh yeah, there's also a ton of spoken word, essentially invocations ritualistic and and so on and there's there's drinking. There's more than dollar of headed ISM as their conducting these rituals. There is also the consumption of various things like this may seem girls to some people, but cakes, meat of menstrual blood, for instance. That may seem growth to people. I don't want to denigrate someone's religion Desgas. It's not my thing, because at a thing is that I think outside of this group, a minstrel cake. I do not know men stroll cakes, I dont know Matt. Ok,

I guess it's calculate the placenta eating the placenta after birth, which is become the thing and is quite popular. Yet, look I'm not in the audio, not understood it. We shall be explicit about that. Ok, but more or I'm not I am not currently in the idea of a hook, but there's, around today. Yes, they are in shout out to any of you who are currently members of the organisation or have been affiliated with it. We'd love to we'd love to hear more about this year. If you want to explain menstrual cakes, I'm all yours- and you seem fair you fast day with this- I guess that's what you could call I'm I'm concerned. Did you get? I wish you could see this face: matchmaking, yeah yeah. Maybe your perplexed, maybe that's better work. This group is practising cruelly philosophy of flame, which is at peace.

Can I read it describes as religious libertarianism yeah, which I was pretty pretty new way to encapsulate it. This is the origin of do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law number that all back go back right and brought it back. Parsons is hooked. He is very attractive to this idea of radical individualism of non conformity. And the focus upon fulfilling one self, your own goals, press and if anyone else's fulfilled because as you are fulfilled, then so be it. But ultimately it's about you met and sort of admitting the open secret that most people practice witches were all the main characters of her own stories. Right, there's nothing. You can do but nothing you do about. It, should go and try and break that ego right. Maybe you can there. I don't know it's. Can I get you? Can you can be occult leader

right and make other people echoes of yourself anyway. Maybe that's people who were in the auto will feel that that is unfair to cruelly true. But here, master manipulator, and this organisation does have a lot of manipulative people in it will see how that comes into play. Parsons is especially entreat by cruelties beliefs that sex can be an intrinsic component magical rituals that it's not just a necessary but filthy act as some of the Puritans.

The forces of the time would have us believe he's. He likes this idea of sex as a means of increasing epiphany yeah, reaching some higher plane that you couldn't reach just by walking around or thinking about something or writing. You know, there's a physical act that can take you somewhere else and back to his buddies, which, by the way not just just get area there, a physical act. They can take you somewhere else think about within the context of jet propulsion right when he's trying to create the technology that he is creating in tandem with this is a physical way to get two somewhere. I had a movie or other places planets and the idea that your thoughts can have, tangible material results upon the world around you through the force of your will alone. Audio is all about the will fanatic magical with me, and you know it

just physical forces involved in one case you ve got explosions and the other you ve just got friction you're explosions, we're a family share, but yesterday that is a fantastic point, knew something alchemical about that rain, transformative and parsons friends back to this side squad. They think this is really weird stuff they're, not on board, came in we're here for the Rockets. We already eight yeah, I mean vague. We hear you, we hear you just now. I now right right right, used, be cool, let's be worked, friends but the they think. It's you know. They think it's weird, but there's still genuinely friends at first. They just feel like this is a harmless obsession, there's just parsons being persons at least it first

and then he just keeps going down over down. Oh my gosh listless. I well the Lima Business Religion NET was founded. It is a religion The only was founded in nineteen o four, so you know at the time Carson joined up it's like thirty years old, something around. There were thirty five. I guess it's pretty young yeah, it's a young religion, It's as old as I am. If there is real the that is all this. I currently am as recordings pod. It's very here however, like most occult practices, this gentleman Alister cruelly. He argued that is based on these ancient ancient beliefs. These esoteric thoughts, have occurred far far before he was born before. Anyone that is on earth was born here that are forgotten a lot of times or hit we're just universal law gap that exists, that is bigger than our

common understanding of the world in which we live. Yes, exactly higher plains of consciousness, stuff of the use their ago. Yeah primordial the word. The limit itself is a form of ancient Greek for Will new, as in like determination, not some cannot William. Will there be for either issues will its William? Will your magic polemic magic spell? Do they k is a system of physical, mental and spiritual exercises designed to quote caused change to occur in conformity with will This is going to be familiar to a lot of people who have read things like the secret

or mind over matter type to stop manifestation lilies right, if you can believe it can achieve it saw. This differs from some of the pop psychology self help stuff, because it has specific instructions meant to meant to accomplish certain task so cruelly adds that k to magic is. He wants the differentiated from stage magic or illusion, yeah, and it's not just switching out see it's adding a k to the forward yeah. Thank you. Yeah! That's really important to cruelly ended. Andrew people practices today, many of them its in this discipline are a synthesis of older rituals stuff from the hermetic order of the golden dawn and then practices from eastern belief systems they captured Crawley's attend,

That's curly was a member of their medic order, the golden on for a while, and he borrowing a lot of that stuff. Right right and, I think, was pretty open about. But it doesn't my thing now. Yes, and then there are some examples of this kind of stuff. There's a Ritual in the library things that he's written there's a ritual meant to invoke a Holy guardian angel that you could have a conversation with Rich was called Libras em at the gnostic mass and say eucharistic kind of kind of rituals, and then

I think now, yes, and then there are some examples of this kind of stuff. There's a ritual in the library of things. These written there's a ritual meant to invoke a wholly guardian angel that you could have a conversation with a rich was gone. Labour summit. To convince people to sleep with you yeah, or it is also a it's an interesting little litmus test when you're going through in trying to sell someone on this religion, You can tell if someone you want your group or not as soon as you get there, and you start discussing how perhaps we will use

masturbation of you and your friends here the role hanging out with, as I'm talking to you about this. That's that's one of our major rituals and a certain percentage of those people are going to turn around walk away and then a few others are going to go. Let me hear little more about this and those are the people that you want in your group and this broadly, something is probably not something with a just throw people to the deepens escalates over a period of time sure, but a little peak behind the curtain gets you. Your converts. I'm thinking strategically and called formation and gathering the molasses right re write. The idea being special privilege is hidden knowledge, but for people who do believe this do practice it and do feel that

they have attained, the realisation of which they yearned or the results that they desired. This stuff is legitimate, so we are presenting both sides of the belief we're, despite not being in the auto. We are not making a judgment, call about it. Absolutely not. These people are all in theory, dinner adults in full possession of their wits. Thongs you're, not hurting anyone, lakes say branding them with new their cattle iron. Then we're ok might do what thou wilt. You know what I mean and many it's important to mention that many practitioners of this form of magic do seek material, tangible results, money power, love a breakthrough in rocketry their example, but it's not

editorializing. Sometimes it's just that the higher realisation cruelly believed himself to be a prophet. As we said, Anne Parsons at this time is relating the concepts of magic that he's exploring to the ideas of quantum physics in itself, for Physics is a relatively new concept at this time there, both in their own way young religions yeah. Oh well, that's that's a really great point, a quantum physics as a young religion. I can only say that me. When you get to the edges of physics, it's really just the smartest people in the room throwing their opinions at each other know what I mean, which I think is a beautiful, beautiful point for a species to be at so we mentioned that Parsons makes a lot of money. He encounters significant amounts of cash, as the US government continues to buy his groups liquid jet fuel, for

an jet engines designed to run on this fuel? This money allows him to start holding his elaborate labourer, o rituals at his house, which comes known as we for it, the parsonage. Oh, that's, pretty great, it's ok, the parsonage! Will aid had been so, let's say, got really nothing to do with the Friday night. I hear about this new group I'm gonna, go hang out at the parsonage years of good place. What am I going to get into arm over there? I'm so glad you aspect you're gonna get it. If you can get in the door, you're gonna get into a crazy time. These ritual, you're, very, not safe for work as we call it today and their wild for the standards of the time, their people shouting chats during my

ass, if orgies and on multiple occasions either Parsons has taken steps to attempt to see the Anti Christ, the Moon child widened straight from the invisible yes, while he is at the forefront of rocket technology, he is attempting to be at the forefront of Anti Christ, advocacy wow and any he's finishes up. Has the I'm assuming the help clean up afterwards because you don't want to do that on your own. I'm assuming and he's wealthy, as we said then, you put on your lap coat and hat on in the work on Monday that may revolved in situations like that re sure. Yeah good fences make good coworker relation

that's, probably that's, probably what his buddies or say do each other yeah like look man he's gonna that stuff, but man he's really got some great ideas but Woody's when he's here he's here yeah. So in nineteen, forty one things did even stranger Parson engages in an ongoing sexual relationship with his wife's sister, who is seventeen years old at the time under age person year and here's the problem. The group is a part of. The the order, the audio it's kind of encouraged, because it's something that he wants and that's all that matters

seems consensual to everyone involved, so they don't call the cops or anything, and why does it puts over going to write? Parsons wife is also in sexual relationship with one of these other most senior members of the idea. So there's this very open the two toward Saxon, very fluid relationships, right, yeah, monogamy that something for the squares, the Pasadena police. Meanwhile, I have been receiving her complaints about unspeakable acts occurring at the parsonage in forties, one of the neighbors you live in a nice neighborhood you're, probably wealthy is the usual you're, probably well off. If you're living next door to Jack, Parsons and yours, during these crazy chance. These moons of sexual ecstasy and then maybe some ritualistic screaming. You know

it's going on. There is funny that at in every instance, they begin as simple noise complaint and the officers show up in the may find themselves in a who very different situation, but there's nothing. You do privacy of your own home, just keep down. Please I guess you're right yeah, that's true! I don't know the blue laws were at the time where he is like if he could actually be arrested for doing something in his home. I Saddam and the like, but yeah or maybe consumption of an illegal substance. The counter culture is like the Pasadena Police Force well aware of Parsons activities in a way he becomes a precursor to the the common thing that we have here in the? U S today, on the West Coast, the billionaire Bro tech guru, Tony Start ask genius rights. He makes

Ass of amounts of money from his innovations. He spends massive lots of money, partying pursuing alternative lifestyles, and we can compare it today too. Tat, goose micro, dozing at burning man. There, then and also come out with incredible technology, or at least on the companies that come out with incredible technology right and there's the sense that they are somewhat above. The law of the common peasant right did note, quick kite in your head to that picture of Elon Musk on the Jew, Rogan show smoking a massive blunt, her and you're his employees can't do that, because there would be problems with their security clearances for Spacex yeah. I really didn't think I was real when I just saw the thumbnail from Youtube,

nice Photoshop yeah, that's funny! Oh wow, member. I it's marijuana. It's fine! It's legal there! It's very closely can we go across the? U S evening, us the money at two good? That's what happens the morality does, a different but the M the race disguised as morality. That was the original reason for, for the the resumption of marijuana just doesn't match up to money there that being said. We encourage you not to do drugs, everyone listening unless you want to, and that's all the whole the law, so that a man no comment come. So the the countercultures aware of this disguise Ella Musket Tony start soon, another figure of color

his underground seen joins the activities a fellow El Ron, Hubbard, that's true reach the sound to you, great now who's around Hubbard. On Hubbard is the father of a little thing called Dianetics. It's a philosophy that he created Daddy Summit, and now he would later change his mind and create the concepts that would become a full on religion, Scientology religion for taxpayers, Mrs maybe I don't know, I don't know I or on Hubbard was thinking well. He twins the gang joins the personage in nineteen, forty five and around this time from boys international diminish their interest in Parsons, both because

concerned about his unorthodox private life, his open practice of the dark arts and still is political inclination these- may lead him to be considered untrustworthy or sympathetic to communist forces, yeah yeah and in the worst he would be the worst kind of more the person who is at the top, creating technology that will then be use. You know he's not some he's, not a rocket scientist employed by this thing. Is the rocket scientist running conceptualizing moving yeah he's at the point of expertise where his best guess qualifies as leading signed. The theory yet you dont want iron man as an enemy right there you go. That's a good quote: the worst kind of more the person who is at the top, creating technology that will then be someone who's switched or became aspire? Double agent or more for ideological purposes, is much more difficult to control than someone who does it.

There are in debt or their being blackmailed, for instance, where much one dangerous. Also he saw their like. Ok, the guy's happy, I don't think he's heard aim body and we need rockets at this time. There's some personal, proper the encounters the person that he's infatuated with Sarah that's the sea sure of Helen his wife she becomes. Saturated with IRAN? Mr steal, your girl, Hubbard yeah, that's him and makes Parsons insanely upset and he starts

delving into his moving up the ranks of the audio by the way and that time gains leadership positions. He develops a different focus. He has a deeper interest in witchcraft and darker side of magic, he's fascinated by poltergeist by spiritual apparitions. Man feel and really tortured at this time and being always and innovator right. He decides to try and create a new lover to create its own lover and Ella Mental wow. I like, like a golden

over a gun like a thought form he wants to manifest gotcha, perfect lover. Sarah runs off well Run, Hubbard and so Parsons takes part in these areas. Unusual rituals they're supposed to help him manifest his thought into the world. Nea hee hee plants is seed, therewith magic tablets. Yet and he does it to the sound of music, not the add on another busy, but he's busy equal envy. This is something is at the basis of most chaos or some chaos magic where sir we're seed is planned

on a piece of paper that has writing and were a symbol on it. That is then burned a lot of time. Slayer, room, yeah and shortly after this Parsons meets a woman named Marjorie Cameron, and he feels as if this is the elemental force that he has invoked somehow conch she becomes his muse and he sees his scientific and spiritual pursuit is increasingly intertwined. Know what I mean He sees himself as of the line of great fingers like Isaac Newton who totally to totally may breakthroughs in physics, but they also totally believed in alchemy and practised, and I thought that perhaps the science was part of the alchemy right get so Parsons. Is this rocketry, magic and magic is rocketry, for example, when it works on his experiments in the desert. He recited pagan poem, two pan,

You can imagine how weird this sounds too. The g men who are listening in fun, boys or not. I have if, as is one is a national funds, as the boys thought. Parsons eventually runs into financial trouble after gets involved with bad investments associated with all round Hubbard. This is a pattern. Auburn goes on to repeat by the way, is this the the odd thing. The yacht boys, yeah Hubbard, had convinced him to take money and travel to Miami and by three out o three yachts: here's a yacht thing around Hubbard, as he had a time. That's that's that's a lie

Many of the academics that are suspected of being communist sympathisers are black listed as the cold war sets imposed world war two, and this means Parsons in a lot of his colleagues, lose their security clearances and without their security clearance, they are out of jobs, oh wow. Yet that is what that is. A sweeping change then starts coming through a time, and then I can imagine someone who's. Socio with something like the audio and or those old communists, believe then even maybe had just back in the day that the fund boys know about. I can imagine him just get extra that list right, so

found himself having to earn money as a manual labor. How orderly a car mechanic he was pushed out a science, so he too even deeper into the occult he ended up working for the film industry, make an explosive scream pyrotechnics and just before he took a trip to Mexico just before he was going to leave on a trip you plans in nineteen. Fifty two he received a lot the order of explosives for a movie and while getting everything together, there was an explosion involving mercury, Parson suffered fatal wounds and he died at the age of thirty seven.

Once we only thirty seven and thirty he's done all of this right, crazy, he is death was ruled in accident. His friends suspected it was a state sponsored conspiracy to remove this dangerous mad genius from old and that's where it stops. Parsons controversial private life led him to be white from NASA history and that magic stuff aside, satanic orders aside, that's another true cover up and for a long time his role was not acknowledged. According to Biographer George Pendel Parsons was written out of the history books, his role in rocketry discredited for decades, simply because his supernatural police did not fit into the other supernatural believes that one we're dominant at the time? Well, maybe that's interesting way of looking at it really is. It really is in and I can identify with that,

the mackerel. It makes you wonder about today when people are the bleeding edge of science, what are their closed door, religious beliefs, light, bio hackers and Stuff yeah, bio hackers I mean even like maybe you're Elon musk and some of those people out there right now. That can essentially do anything they want. Do at any time what are their spiritual beliefs in? Is there anything? That's hidden enough that we won't know about it. I see yeah, that's a fascinating question. You know what You had the opportunity to ask someone about this earlier today, you and you and Paul. Both we didn't forget folks I miss that opportunity. There is a story here and it's way that I

enjoyed hearing. I know we ve been going Longboat can. Can you give us just like the the broad strokes, the broad strokes Euro browsers right before they. We started recording this episode. I walked in those heading in a little bit early, so I could continue researching here and I was running late Ben was been was not quite in the office yet, and our president of our network, his name's conall? and he was showing somebody around the office and I'm gathering up my computer, my books in everything and I'm heading in- and you know it all about that, because our president walks around with him, where people all the time just walk around with anyway palaces? Hey man is my friend bread, And you know I just and for my hand, out and issues is broadly Cooper. Stand there.

Stared at me with those beautiful blue eyes, my goodness, their striking number anyway Here's the thing- and I hope I hope he wouldn't be upset to mention this but We begin chatting and we get into some conversations, bow the APOLLO missions and then he wants to talk about September eleven, and then we want to talk about a little bit about these other conspiracies and The guy, I think, would it right in with us. In perhaps that just because he is such an enigmatic person that he will engage. You anything you want to talk about, but I did not bring up either of those subjects. So yeah you go so there you go. How many and Paul met Bradley duper Saint Paul, Paul man Bradley, a little later over by the water cooler,

and they had a very nice conversation about his new movie coming out by the way that he is directory Buell he's working with Lady Gaga, it's called a stars board. They go plug for Bradley Cooper. You're welcome Brad, and thank you everyone for tuning in We want to know where you land on this. I think now the story of Jack Parsons in his leg. She is a little more apparent in the public sphere is more common knowledge, but do you feel that as a society, our norms limit our ability to innovate, technologic you know what I mean like interesting, like the: U, government in this may apply. This surely applies to every other governments as well. The? U S, government in the past had a very difficult time: hiring quality hackers because of their affinity. For

drugs and YO. They were brilliant mines, brilliant computer people, but they didn't want to stop smoking we'd or stop you're doing whatever drug they do and they have to be clean to pass a security clearance. There that's fascinating so eventually they I believe in many cases, eventually the? U S, government just folded and made exceptions to the rule. Do you think those exceptions should exist? Let us know you can find a sun Instagram Facebook Twitter, check out our community page. Here's where it gets crazy, where there are tons of fascinating conversations in the mean game a double plus good. Who really is if you want to give us a call, you can read said our number one, eight three, three s p d w! Why t k that stuff? They don't want you to know you can reach us that

We was a voice mail, you might get on the air in the future. If you don't want to do any of that stuff on also buy tickets to, I've shows, if you have an already done that stuff they dont want you to know that calm, slash, live shows were coming to a city near you, hopefully and its, where the best ways to get a tour teacher you go so do all that stuff. But if you want to do any of that, and you still have Judging or common or anything. You want to chat with us about right as a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy and house the words that come

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