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daughters, ideas, the spot, the accused killer, sent to prison end of story right? Not even if you could ask anything, what would you ask you, the real killer, listen to the real killer, every Thursday on the eye heart, radio up apple pie casts or ever you got. Your pod casts from Europe those two psychic powers and government conspiracies history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn Stop they don't want you to know a production of. I hope we. Hello. Welcome back to the show my name is met. My name is no dig

call me back, we are joined, as always with our super producer, Paul mission Control, deck and, most importantly, you are you you are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't want you to know this. The second part of a two part series. We are joined again with award winning investigative journalist screenwriter an author Peter Lance to continue our exploration of the Doris Duke case now, folks, in our path, these episode, we learned the facts about the murder of Eduardo to roll up as well as the I think, it's fair to say at this point blatant can t we will cover up surrounding these events and we ended on a cliffhanger so- we're not gonna leave everybody hanging any longer right Peter, thank you so much for returning thus today to talk about the fall out the aftermath, the present day, revelations about the door?

is Duke case. We have a lot of stuff, we didn't get to impart one. So we're immensely fortunate to have you back here with us for part to your great in order to kind of set the stage. I would like to do a quick recitation of the facts that actual evidence that I covered in my vanity story first published in June of twenty, and then this book that I wrote, homicide erupt point that led a new on living witness of the actual murder to come forward and for the Newport police to reopen the case, what was learned in the course of my initial investigation through the first officer on the scene, Edward Angel as told he told me that sergeant Fred, new it was the chief action investigator. Had terms within minutes of Eduardo trellis death when happened and Eduardo Corolla. Was this wonderful renaissance man in war hero? We ve been working for doors,

for seven years as their principal designer and our curator therein giving her estate rough point in Newport, Rhode, island on millionaires, row, Bellevue Avenue, in the late afternoon, around five o clock of the seventh of October nineteen sixty six to look at and pick up a realm query, which is a work of art that Eduardo had praised early in the day and he finally gave imprimatur, let's go out and get it. He had. Just hold her moments earlier, that he was leaving her employer after seven years she was notoriously jealous and vindictive shed a hare ten she'd stabbed or common law husband with a butcher knife too is earlier one hundred fifty stitches get away with that answer. As their leaving the estate and warders driving. This sixty six dodge polarity wagon two tonnes station wagon and He gets out to open these massive iron gates, twelve feet tall by seven feet, wide their fifteen feet away and as he's out

gates trying to just to start to open them. She slides behind the wheel affirmative act one. She then releases the part, break by hand, she then puts the car moves. The gear shift from park to drive a phone the slams down accelerator, causing tire with gouge marks of two too just in the gravel and they just roars forward at him. He then, to save his life. Does a lizard brain reaction, any jumps up on the hood, which is a thing that people do to save their lives, that they can go left or right and he staring at her. He broke his hip in the in the course of that body. Staring at her ass. She burst through the gates and then affirmative back five. She tapped the brakes DE accelerates, You know skids to stop. He rose off he's now in front of calling out in pain, doors and there

she decides to commit she roars over him, crushing him under the vehicle and dragging him across the street eighty feet onto a curb, knocked down twenty feet opposed and rail fence and hits a tree and he is he's just dead ends we then, and so what I just described, was heard by the witness who came forward. last summer to me and what happened was after my book came I was the considered author and residence at the Brenton Hotel in Newport, Rhode Island This is on my website, Peter Lance dot com and I'm there at July. Third, a rainy afternoon in this gentleman comes up to me. Since I was I was there I was. I was like her paper boy for abrupt point. I said you're kidding me. How old were you, and you know I vetted him heavily that night, and then I took him back the next day and he said coming out of ledge Road, which is just kind of to the east

of the west of a rap points about six hundred feet away. Six harry yards away actually- and I could hear in the disk it was very quiet. In those days there was no cup competitive traffic. I man, and a woman arguing in I had established earlier that there are arguing inside adjust after Eduardo told doors here leaving her, and so she want to go and but their shouting at each other in the house, and now, apparently they took it outside. So as he gets his honest bike he's about to deliver the paper to rub point to Gateshead rub point as a main gate in the front and then the little service gate after the side and when go to Peter last, come and look at the vanity fair peace I filed in August, which has this detail. I did a very of bob- did vanity fair additives like five minutes longer, get the entire sense of automobile to tell you what he told me so he's peddling on his ten speed bike enough equally it as he gets closer. He keeps hearing all

the events I just described. He hears the initial crash as is the man crying out Ed's, as as he goes up on the hood, he hears the first crash at the gates opening, Here's a d acceleration he hears the skid he hears them crying out, and then he hears the mango as he's getting really close now and then she just drags over Eduardo and kills him all the fatal injuries, as I later determine from autopsy report, had been missing worth his upper body and all of the damage was to the lower gates. She did not crush him against the gates, which is the cover story. The police use. So Bob tells me there and I said well. Why are you telling me this now? Is it because I read your book and I knew about your vanity fair thing on him by the reading it? But people told me about it, and I read your book finally, and I just thought about coming forward from all night and then for days, and everybody told me

bother bob. You know like let it lie. Let it rest, you really don't need this in your life, he's a good and father is multiple grandchildren, he's retired steam, fitter, wonderful guy and he Bay ugly when I took him up the next day. He took me through every little angle of it, and this is the most. astonishing thing that he told me he said after he literally made it to the service, gay and drop dutifully drop, the paper and a slot he turned, and it was literally seconds after the second fatal crash. Ok, the second crash across the street and with pans over any looks down the street, and he sees this station wagon was we thought was a fine. Coming up it was steam, and then he sees a woman get out of the car. A tall woman. Now he'd never met doors Duke he knew he delivered to reappoint. He knew that there was a rich lady called doors. Do she was six foot too Caesar get out walk one two, three four five steps deliberately turn

and she starts staring underneath the vehicle like looking at it as if searching for proof of life, not in shock Oh my god. What did I do? What I say you know my Eduardo no know she's like steely, eyed and cold blooded, like you know, look down and so Bob comes up behind her on his ten speed and she doesn't seem cause. They're back is to him. Finally, as he finishes peddling, they the gear start to quickly click and she turns Man can. I help you and he was always taught by his father, the code. You always help people. If it's a woman, you do even more to help the person you know he noticed that She had no injuries honour. She was not in any case shock at all, but he said you want me to go up to the house and three times in a row. Firstly said: do you want me to go help. Then he said you want me to go to the house and then he said. Do you want me to call the cops each time pointed the finger adam- is, as you the hell out of here. Literally

with more velocity to her voice each time these thirteen year old, kidneys like well, meanwhile, he's trying to see under the carcass he remembered hearing a man's voice and there's no man- and she crab walking back and forth in front of the vehicle is if to keep him from seeing and finally, she just gets him out of there and as these peddling away. He thinks to himself and all this he tells me the next day as we go up there. Where was the guy? Where was the guy? whose voice I heard next day, then sees the Newport Daily NEWS and I'll stop talking you can. We can pick it up from from their justice guys get a word and edgewise we're all wrapped all that's it! the whole thing here bitter went when I I watched Ivan you're talking about it's on the vanity fair peace, its edited together. It's pretty horrifying, cannot live back, through that again with Bob, as he's taking issue that an he gets to appoint and there were he discusses. Why

he didn't immediately come forward with it. Why, like, after you know your kid, your thirteen years old, you probably go home, you tell your parents, your men is crazy thing happen, wade he and up going and speaking with the police or with reporters or why wasn't that a part of the story? Initially exactly so, what he told me was quite volume believable and if you go to Peter last outcome, Look at the vanity fair. The second story, you'll see a family photo is, in the cover of the first page and his father was like six foot for big Guy former prize fighter, tough there were nine children Bob. You know was the oldest at the time and basically the next day the night, when he got home. We started tell his father. Was a good dinner ready kid gonna get you know: did the dinner ready the potatoes in care it so the next day he goes to pick up the Daily NEWS, during the week the Daily NEWS was an afternoon paper, but on Saturday it was delivered in the morning, so he goes to pick up the papers to deliver

and he looks at the front page and he sees and it's all on a Peter lance dot com. Pcs, Doris Duke, kills friend and crash. She sees this photo of of the underside of the wagon on the front page and says she crushed him against the gates and buddy he's the name Eduardo Tyrrell any because, oh my god, that's the guy. So soon finishes Rudy, Russia's Hermes, dad dad did. This is what I was talking about and his father grab symbol. His shoulders. Pull them out onto a sun, poured away from the rest of the people in the house, the families, mother and brothers, and sisters and says, listen to me. you tell nobody this. You don't tell your mother, your sisters, your brother in your friends, now Buddy, do you hear me and he's like Bob is in shock? Has his dad was always do the right thing? Dad ok, come forward, never take the path of least resistance right. He was a boy scout. It was an all too what I mean you know, so please help dab what about a united, the police?

especially the police. Do you hear me is father. Never hold him. Why and which is clearly in retrospect, his father should have told him for months. He dog them. She talked anybody just you know that I'm telling Tellin ya tell anybody right so finally, five years by he's ready to join the Marine Corps and Bob to his credit, was this guy's got a photographic memory and he was still during the Vietnam WAR at Henderson Hall, which is the marine headquarters in Washington DC, where he had a top secret security clearance. So this man is. You know he may have been a blue collar worker in life, but he he was like high level in terms of is the analytical thinking and skill, and so he, then, nineteen. Seventy three takes to marine bodies that he served with to Newport New tells us, the story bit by bit by bit. He also channels for other new porters include Danny Sullivan, retired firefighter, who gave him the paper route and he tells it exact

as I just recited it that he told me beat by be an icon attracted all of those individuals, and they told me absolutely is it was early as one thousand nine hundred and seventy three, we heard the same story and Bob's told it over the years too many people, so said to him. Well, what do you know? What are you gonna go to the cops? it already did. I went to the cops yesterday. daddy, I may any went to talk first call this lieutenant named Corey Lieutenant Who- asked him something that you know you never ask you know you never get judgmental with a whistle blower. In my opinion. Ok, you. If you find it, so blower that's willingly and talk about something that happened. You don't get judgmental with him, because then you can put them into like withdrawing right. You just one is much string- is possible, and so this Lieutenant Hucks said to him try to unburden. Your soul like and Bob said, Anne Bob's, it boy

dog, so he was not pursue dissuaded bodies, downward trend and burn my soul, any kind of said it like that. That's how he said to me in the vanity, fair video and then the next day Hark had him meet this lieutenant, as is her name, was Jackie waste, a detective w s T pronounced, who waste and she's the coal case detective for the day, for the new poor police, he so he goes into an interrogation Romania's there with her for two hours and I ultimately got the audio that which I transcribed in part of my investigation, of what what wrong with this new investigation and she's, Ernest in the beginning, but is clear: she has no clue what he's talking about. She never takes him up to rough point, you never looks at the choreography of where, where events happened, the way I did the next day and she's blowing up Google MAPS ugly area with I even ledge rode on and ask him to make color marks on where he was. She totally is

Wesley clueless as to what happened. However, he tells her after I read Peter Lances book I came for, and then he criticizes again in the first sentence or to lieutenant talk about the burden myself think so that's their and but finally, as after this came out, and I pictured it vanity fair, my editor David friend, one of the great veterans of vanity? Fair said: really? Are you sure this Peter and, I said, listen. I want to send you some video soon. As I said, the video is a unity and have to do a pitch for this. When can you have the story? You know five thousand words, and then they took my video and the editor in that five minute, video that you so which has their logo in the upper corner? I also got a drone fits governing Lowell Blackman. To do some nice drone footage of Europe points to get a sense of the proximity of a road which is also available on the on the Peter last outcome. So now the peace go.

Into Vanity fair August fit the same day. The associated press goes worldwide and their international wire and five thousand media outlets over these doors do case, reopen new witness, comes forward, etc, etc. So Jackie Wiess, this detective a credit. Initially sent me a letter I emailed her prior to the peace going as I wanted to get their comments, and she was very specific, again. Her letter is on my website, Peter Liese, darker, and she says we're not going to ignore this case. This case is the Duke cases been reopened and we're going to try and find justice for Eduardo and his family. Can you help Us- and I immediately totally. Yes, I was then by then back in California from Newport, and I said call me and will do online on zoom, whatever you want to do I'll help you about. That was that that was the fifth of August on the twentieth of art.

the 19th. She sends me an email and I'm upsetting her emails back and forth. What's that What can I do to help a barber and she said me an email? It says? Well, my turn it has told me not to talk to the media, meaning I can't talk to her now, according lieutenant that's when the fix was clearly beginning to get in now, was it Huck who got his nose a joint, because he was upset that Bob criticized him and the Vanity fair thing, and in the interview I don't know, I don't know this gory hockett, all I'd. Never, madam, I don't know much about him, but find out more. When is I'm gonna? Do a new book? That's going to explore this, but the point is by she had not read my book even then even by the end of August, and do you know, read the Vanity fair peace. She never took Bob up to this up to the place and then, finally, on the on the fifteenth of September, now, ten weeks after she commenced the investigation Bob,

I drew up a heartfelt letter and he's got the irish writers, Jean Man, this guy's, really town. Any rights of this beautiful letter saying have, I done for not have I come forward and all blue for no reason I mean and Eduardo Teresa, as I quote him in my vanity fair peace. He said I about it all night. I thought about four weeks and then I thought to myself the truth these to come out. The people of Newport need to know the world needs to know. This was a beautiful man taken from this earth of violent. it needs the truth needs to come out. So what is Jackie we do when she gets that letter on September, fifteenth and weeks, and she she's over to his house and makes an unannounced visits when have you ever heard of a cup making unannounced Is it was going to arrest somebody at their house right and then she says to him, as Bob tells me right after she said she she me, you know, How do I know you just didn't make up this whole thing. You know after you read Petersburg

originally in letter, two meters, and we find I find Bob credible. She found incredible. Ok now ten weeks later, she is questioning whether he made the whole thing up. She then them? This is interesting. I got promote the sergeant I'm going off on a three week, vacation and and a, but when I get back, I'm going to be in the traffic vision, which is a very important job in Newport, which has very narrow streets and hordes of tourists with big trucks. So traffic is a big deal, but she said I'm taking all the cold cases with me. So, where, if you didn't even have time, then by then she still hidden read my book. Okay. So if you haven't had read the book, which is the essence- and I sent her on september- twenty second chapter and verse

it's all on my website. There's a link Peter Liese that come letter to Jackie We September to reside in which, in red, bold, I just did like paint by numbers, connect the dots on the sixth intentional acts. The door stood committed that could prove intend to kill homicide and I wasn't asking the Newport police to use the word murder. I was just saying, you be able, and now to declare that there's probable evidence telling evidence that the death of it- Teresa was proximately caused by a series of tension acts committed by Doris. Do you know use. The word murder because murdered, didn't apply, murders, illegal term. Incense Doris was dead. She couldn't be the no grand jury could hear this in the case could not be brought, but you know why not at least reach that conclusion and set the record straight in the midst of this incredible evidence, arrive we're just gonna. Take a quick break, hear a word

a sponsor than we'll be right back with more from Peter Lens, hey, Walmart from the essential voices part guest. This clip is brought to you by spyware small. Water is everything you want in a water, pure hide rating with a crisp taste smile his vapor distilled still. A process is Barbara, the Klaus yeah and a cloud without intellectualize for taste. You get a premium water experience with every sip pickup about was my water purity. You can take migration. You can feel smart water upon a member of the Coca COLA family What drives me apple wall is we're talking about minimum wage jobs were having this whole conversation about a living wage. You ve gotta, be your work as a living wage, I'm so sick of the idea of a living wage. Why we hang workers in wage. A safe wage. A healthy family supported wage

listen to essential voices every Tuesday on the Michael do their part gas network available on the eye, high radio app Apple Park, or wherever you get your purchase, a single mother, brutally murdered in her own home. This was a headline grabbing homicide, one, daughters, ideas, the spot, the accused killer, sent to prison end of story right. Not even if you could ask anything when you asked, are you the real killer? Listen to the real killer every Thursday on the eye heart, radio up apple pie casts or ever you got. Your pod casts and we ve returned with Peter lessons. Peter you hit a couple things that I just really When a drill down into the view, we ve already kind of disgust, I just I need

you hear more one? reasons or thee reason. Perhaps the active investigations are not discuss by law enforcement is so that only the person who is responsible in the investigators. No, the specifics right. We This is an established thing. When I read through your original vanity, fair article and then excerpts from your book, I of a lotta, I'm now just as a breeder armed with a lot of information from from your investigations, and that's that's: why I may be initially at another time. Sceptical of Bob. It's just that. I imagine that he could be armed with much of the information from reading the same things I did and This is why I want to know how you personally vetted him, and you know you're, saying that the officer also bedded him and found him credible. Just what do you use? What instinct is it? What are one of the things you used that somebody like that? Well, the rest, She found him. Credible, was and and again I at least nip

Rhode Island has a very viable freedom of information. Act Luckily, access to public records act and was able to get the audio that recording Abarbanel sense have gotten the video of it. His well ok and She but Bob says to her at the very She says we're hooking corroborate this and it gives them. aims of the two Marines and it gives the names of Danny, solvent and three other Newport is that he told in the early eighties and to her credit within minutes of the him leaving his friends. Call them up at this cop is calling to see. If that story, you told us years ago, is true. It should. I talk to you it is by all means talk to her. So the fact that she, he was able to corroborate- and I was I talk to all of them. Finally, I interviewed them. I did transcript recorded the interviews and I did transcripts of the universe, so I knew that that he'd just hadn't just wing this thing that he was not just yet. I had read my book. Then the Koran

nation that made him credible was the fact that he told the story so much earlier. It's very similar to a lot of the cases in the ME to era where women who were mistreated. Actually is an understatement, were told friends contemporaneously, and that goes to their credibility right. That's part of what we due to assess the truth and individuals who come forward, particularly if it's the years and decades later, so I was convinced, These are two moraines and Danny Sullivan, veteran firefighter they're. All like hey. You can take what Bob says to the bank. This guy does not exaggerate, he's not prone to hyperbole. and you know he met this- meant a lot to him coming forward in the first place. So you know I that's why I was Why that he was on the level, and then you know there is.

explanation as I gave you earlier for why he didn't come forward with his father made perfect sense, oh by the way. I want to add to this. So when he's these- eighteen years only goes to his father. Just about to join the Marine corps is now a man and he says to him dad come. tell me: why did you tell me not to come forward and the Father says any in retrospect, told them, then we'll send them a ladder axed over the years. He said, son, listen! If this is going to trial, you would have been in power key witness a motive on, and you know the the add, the event itself. You would a test, and I didn't, I knew what doors Duke was capable of. I didn't want you writing your bike along DR on doing your paper route as the as the nights were getting darker each day and have you hit from behind by a car. I wouldn't want to lose my son, his father so concern this browser. The sick foot, far for guy former prize fighter and fifteen fitter himself said

his told his son. I was so worried about you that you would be killed by Doris. Do that's. Why did it son so that took a big burden off of him, but it also gives you an idea of what people thought about we're still gonna capabilities in Newport, Rhode, island and nineteen. Sixty six and that's I mean that's chilling because it undeniably a valid concern right and this I agree with you that must have been that must have been least validating experience for bought their because you know it answered some questions gave him some closure about something very uncharacteristic on his father's behalf. What are we talking about? Specifically you at the listener part one but I have her while, while we're cogitate on that I'd like to ask about a related point here, so import wine, you mentioned

It was clear from the jump that the forensic evidence on the ground was not matching. What was in that first official directive report or conclusion, I'm really curious to learn when you were in your recent conversations after the publication of vanity, fair article after them opening of the case of how did warn for Smith swear these clearly conflicting conclusions right because have a solid case where you you ve got corroborated stuff, you can stay well. That first report does. anyway match what actually happened. What what was their response? did they just stone wall into lake? The evidence doesn't support blah blah blah yeah. The fact that when the book first came out and family

twenty third, a w J, are wonderful report. I call our J Haim a g. I am for W J R, the embassy affiliates problems, data for part Series and he contacted the police and they refused even comment the findings in the book, then in February, when the case was reopened. Jackie wheezed was very forthcoming with me, and I have, I think, thirteen emails to her she has five or six emails back to me and and by the way emails after, I believe Lieutenant Hook it is my opinion that lieutenant hook obstructed the investigation. He should have refused him. Because, if he's telling her, if I'm not just in media, but I'm a central fact witness in this re investigation because of what I uncovered, if he's telling you not to talk to me, that's obstruction, so he argued should have refused himself from the and of command, in my opinion, if they really cared about the truth, but ultimately we'll get you in a minute how they ended up concluding that

there was no evidence not conflicting evidence. No evidence at all anyone has to do is red good, Peter lands, dotcom even may make it easy. I have links to the key chapters in the book, proving the murder and the cover up. You can read them in and hopefully by the book or listen to the book, etc. But the thing I was gonna bring up that I had forgotten. That's really important is one of the things that Bob brought. This narrative beyond his memory was the following member. I said when he confronted Doris duty, was not injured in any way, and he said particularly said to me Peter as a boy scout I I would have noticed if she was injured. I would have been more insistent on helping her. So this is like happens minutes after she's completely unwanted and uninjured, and then as well is peddling away to do the rest of his Rudy two or three other stops. He here here's, the siren of Edward Angel

first arriving officer on the scene and when Angel with I interviewed him initially, and then I did further interviews for the Vanity fair peace in August than even more interviews because he they find brought him in to interview him Jackie waste. Only after she gonna Bob's House Housing Bob's is you don't believe me called doctor? angel. she interviewed Eddie angel. I got the audio of that may transcribed that as well, but by that time, I'm on the seventeenth of September, she was saying things to any angel. Like her mind was already clothes like pretty hard to prove intent when everybody's debt, line from Jackie Waste and September, like more than ten weeks after she opened the case now she's an objective finder fact, why would she say hi to proven ten of everybody's dead? I'm not dead, at least not yet Bob's dead, any angels, not dead, there's all kinds of the other officers. I interviewed Earl around the forensic Evan. This is what it is. You know it's all

elbow I would have sent detailed copious copies evidence to her. She really cared for already enclosure mode, but this is one of the most chilling and telling aspects in this will give you an insight into Doris, Duke really was so when The angel gets on the scene. He finds her in the car. apparently in shock and with what bill. Waters in another cop who saw at Newport Hospital call steering wheel, injuries, meaning she went boot. She self My headphones almost felt she self wounded herself. In other words, this is a time when there is no seat belts and there are no restrains, no airbags right. So she had to I'm her nose and cut her lip intentionally and when any angel got there, he said I was a rookie, I was any keeps up. rising for this. I said Eddie. Anybody would have done the same thing. He said I blow

there's a guy under their there's somebody under their at which point she jumped out and she started walking back and forth on Bellevue Avenue, apparently in shock, a young evil. Nurse named Judith Tom Oh now, work go. I tracked down, who had just been commissioned ensign and then in the Newport name at the Newport Naval Base and was a nurse she's with her mother and father about to go on sites seeing trip around ocean dry. She gets up and Doris runs into the house, and so she said its followers, you chases doors and allow us to make sure she's. Ok, she doors goes up to the second floor. Calling Eduardo Eduardo Eduardo is if she's creating this story, like you know, that's going to fit with whole thing of I was on him. I didn't know what happened and then she comes out comes back out and oh and Judith, said later than the Mcallister than the corrupt doctor who happen to be my family doctor, who allowed himself be to be hired by door, do that night, even though he was the assistant medical examiner, charged with determine

the cause of death and he hid her away in a room in Newport Hospital, so state investigators could not debtor Philip Mc Gowan you're told Elton Schlegel a classic crime bull dog reporter from the New York Daily NEWS that she was bleeding profusely from her head serious injuries? This is what he tells often Schlegel and Judith Tom's does the little things on her lap, and you know maybe little dinner. You now bruises upon her nose and bill waters and said the same thing when he saw at Newport Hospital so they were already into this exaggeration now, but here's. The final point I would like to make. As I read you know you know, may I go on and on by now people know that that, Eddie angel, the fact that any angel and her in the car apparently wounded, and only moments earlier saw her out of the car deliver really not in shock in cold blood. Keeping him

preventing him from looking under the car screaming at him three times to get away. I ran all this by detective James MOSS in detail. James MOSS is kind of a legendary detective from Brooklyn South, aside now retired he and I actually cleared when we get into some my terrorism stuff over the years and my third book Triple cross week. We solve, with the help of an the eye undercover agent and egyptian name, I met Salem. We solve the brutal bloody murder of them. Stop a shallow, be who was an eminent at a mosque in Brooklyn. There was an open case for nineteen years and we solved it in the year twenty ten. I did a piece for playboy about this and you know they used to have articles and play boy. You guys have never is you know what our roots old job we may have call simply fail silver saying why higher, but so I did a piece

playboy on this end, and we saw this case so Jimmy MOSS became a buddy of mine Ok, just a wonderful guy, and he came up to now. or with me in October, two twenty and eighteen. When I first began investigating this. He was therefore a week and and I ran everything by him. My entire investigation. I gave him all the evidence to analyze to make sure how is it that the police didn't talk to these witnesses? I mean they we Eddie Angel interviewed the terms, the Father, who is in Milwaukee COP and his daughter, Jude just very briefly, but the next day when up brother in law, went and took the photographs inside the gates of the time before they clean that all up. He was interviewed, I frank watchin there was didn't, it didn't seem to care about any of that stuff. He just wanted to know the relationship with doors do so

There are already in the cover up mode, but I said to Jimmy MOSS. What does this mean to you about? What's the significance of the difference between the way Bob Walker saw doors? Duke moments after the the killing of Eduardo and the way Eddie Angel found her, and he said the behaviour of this woman power. Who dominated over this kid. Six foot to woman of great power and influence who chased him from the crime scene was the behaviour of a pure psychopath. You didn't say Souci of man. He said a pure psychopath and the last paragraph in their vanity fair story. I did on August Fit so you know this. All of this is informed by not just me shooting from the hip. It's like, sixty pages of annotations and I'm very proud all those books it by the way, I don't even know how point now in this next, those books to the left in the lurch homicide cover

the first book I did on counter terrorism for Harbour Collins over six hundred pages called a thousand years revenge. I did a shorter book called cover up led to the indictment of a former FBI supervisor on four counts of murder: conspiracy in Brooklyn the case and then abruptly during trial for complicated reasons, tripled, My third book was focused on Ali Mohammed, the Al Qaeda spy, who was the FBI totally about four years and Jesse ate their lunch for years, and then my last book is called deal with. The devil is a epic story of Grigory Scarp, a a mad dog killer for the Colombo, cried family who was a top echelon, criminal and for the bureau. It's the weighty budget story on steroids, okay, so all four Those books go in with mass. Detail and when you're when you're criticising

FBI and the Justice Department, you better be right. Ok, so all those books have that massive level, thousands of end notes of invitation, as does this book in a sixty ages, nine and fifteen, and note entertain and so you know I I brought it my body of work. with the years my skill, the skill set. I develop doing epic stories like that's right, you're all retrospective, aren't they that that they're, all nine eleven is a cold case. I open my by book triple crossed by saying that they still haven't tried collegiate, calm down and get more ok right. We know lead Shake Mohammed was they call on them, to my he was Rumsey usurps Uncle Ramsay use up is the guy that focus on my first book, thousands revenge, in which I said for the first time any mainstream journalist the to attacks on the World Trade Center were absolutely intertwine. There were Al Qaeda operations funded by been lud

and everybody spurned it. Everybody in the mainstream media. Forget it Dan rather discredited to pieces the CBS evening, news from Iraq reporting on my first book. A thousand revenge in two thousand three and then what do you think years later, the Newport, the New York Times the paper record, the Gray lady did it He's on written by gunning Ben Wiser covers this southern district of New York about how the stay, and why had re head updated these superseding indictment on Rumsey Youssef to include his uncle shake Mohammed in all the nine eleven murders. I was right, but did anybody anybody mention it now, because media institutions, like the New York Times, are as adverse to admit that they're wrong, as as law enforcement institutions, its human nature, nobody wants some guy like Peter Lance who'd. You know I was a former correspond, Pray ABC News, but I

writing books ever since you Oh I'm alone. Wolf! Now I don't have a big. You know pulpit a bully pulpit to preach from that you might have work for the washing of Bosnia that nobody wants we told they were wrong, but all of my boy, are in the same vein, retrospective, looking at called cases that's what they are and that's what this is. That's what homicide rub point is writ large either this well said, and this this leads us to another part of our conversation before we go there as a follow up to the point you just made about the fowl quality of humans and Ino nobody's wakes up super excited to admit that they got something wrong. I have tat I'm sure a lot of audience members, you thinking the same thing. Have you any point Peter found evidence of remorse on endorse. Dukes part between the time nineteen sixty six,

and heard demise in the nineties like even once? Was she liked? I feel bad that he's dead. No, fact. As I mentioned in the last hour, I found an individual of former our F tail Gunnar during World WAR, to an Irishman who became a big, Hunter, and he became her lover months later and he was in sight renewal with her from June of Sea, seven the summer after when I start on the daily NEWS all the way through October and later as he wanted to get away from her, if he actually said I was starting to be afraid of her. This is this: is it for male. If there ever was one this individual- and he said to me one night and pillage talk. I just said so. What about this directive thing and she said cold blooded early. He got what was coming to him. Nobody two times me and I explained little bit about what that this evidence of what that may and men and the last broadcast Jean Everest steady remorse, the Newport restoration foundation, they

at least admit that the death of Eduardo was a quote tragic accident. They keep calling it a tragic accident, but no one in it. Visual Newport, the city, manage it Joe Nicholson, the City Council, had the ability to order Nicholson to do an independent investigation and basically This kind of rolled over the police Department Chief, Harry Silver Corey HAWK and ultimately, Jackie waste is called case detective, who basically folded after five month. Investigation I mean there is no evidence. Now we, I think I've put forth in almost two hours of your programme. Compelling evidence and people can read it and homicide a reappoint NGO Peter Liese Dotcom, look at the key chapters. Reader fiercer sixty pages annotations even have a link to that. I have pictures of the key graphic governance in the book and just

People can judge for themselves whether or not there is not compelling evidence. The doors do killed unwarranted Corolla within ten, and yet they just have slammed the door shut again and that equivocally? Well, we couldn't really tell if there is no conflicting in this. They said there is no evidence that was a key reason pronunciamentos, which the city cut a walk back a couple a different times, but there still embracing the unfortunate accident theory, which was cut roughly arrived at in nineteen sixty, sex and within ninety six hours of of Anwar does death, and I talked about that in the last hour. The fabricated transcript that the police went so far as to create three page transcript of an interrogation that never took part probably prime Aphasia, as we say in the law, on its face, provable as a fake to get the case closed that's how far they went out of their way to protect door. Stoop will also like this. U turn

civil case. I guess it was with Eduardo family trying to essentially to recoup what his earnings would have been an hour. She contain Leslie Low ball them, although above them and then ultimately was compelled to pay something just kind of absurd seventy five thousand dollars, which was less I'm sorry to interrupt, but it was less than the that the chip and Dale high boy that she bought it our bernay for a hundred and twenty nine thousand months before trial, the highest price for a piece of furniture ever paid seventy five thousand dollars and when is when the lawyers took their cut for the for the family, each brother and sister five thousand six hundred and twenty dollars at a time. She was making she was making one million dollars a week in interest on her fortune words in its gnp. that you bring then of a mess almost like she looked at him as a piece of furniture. She did look at him as a human being and she did not regard family as human beings, and probably looked at it as paying anything above that Vienna paltry amount,

would have been some sign of admission of guilt right. Well, I think also that which, did was. This is very interesting and I did not realise this until I went back and in you know, started to put the book together and I had much more perspective on the timeline. Why did she dragged out the case for five years, so they filed for one point to five million this wrongful. There case and what wrongful death is means if a person dies and you're his heirs and that person has an earning capacity for the rest of their life there collar workers relatively limited, but Eduardo last year of earnings was like the equivalent of three hundred and forty eight thousand dollars in contemporary dollars. Is its Hollywood Korea was exploding, he was catching fire, so argue yet another twenty years to live yet, potentially millions of dollars of earning capacity right well, first of all, they kept drag get out in my opinion because

began restoring colonial houses in Newport, Rhode Island which saved Newport from bankruptcy after President Nixon one thousand. Seventy three essentially guided the Newport Naval base. They closed Kwanzaa Naval AIR Station across Narragansett Bay. And the entire cruiser destroyer Force Atlantic Flee crew does land was moved to three, bread bases in the south. Now how prepared would we have benefited blood, but with the Soviets over that narrow. You know new a lot closer to Europe than then. You know florid right, but That was what happened with Nixon, so Doris comes in and what I call a murderous quid pro quo and rescued the towns economy. So, five years later by the time trial happen, improvidence stay capital she's, getting these edicts in decrees and the state Senate talking about it, She walks on water. Oh miss, do thank you so much for your philanthropy further. I can't prove this because I don't know the transcript because it was selectively

move from Rhode, island judicial archives, but did they play the game card? where there was a gay man and nineteen sixty six and one of the reasons. The algae bt, Q plus community has really gotten behind this book. I've had like five major pieces and the advocate and too out magazine, which is which are published by pride media Diana Anderson men. Shall this incredible? Ceo has really been supportive of this book. In my work in, if you a gay man and nineteen sixty six. You are a man- and that's not me talking, that's just the reality of what it was like back then, prior to the algae, BT, Q, plus, you know rights movement right so we now know that this is the idea that there is not a low Meyer. His beloved niece said- and I quote this in the vanity fair peace and in the book she killed him twice. She destroyed his body and then she eviscerated his memory is reputation and

one of the things I am proud to starve in this hall endeavour is weeks after the vanity fair peace came her Wikipedia entry, gotta doors, Doris, Duke Wikipedia, and it had not been changed for years and I found out- and I didn't do it- I wouldn't even know how to do it. You can do it if it self interested Wikipedia they che. They haven't you higher section on unwarranted trellis death, now endorse Dukes, Wikipedia Entry, and it's all sorts to my vanity, fair story, I am very proud of that. If we can argue fairly, I think we all agree that Wikipedia is kind of the Encyclopaedia Britannica of our time. widely go to it. I mean it may be flawed, but people go to Wikipedia and look for things and it's pretty well annotated. Then I'm very proud. The least that part of history is changed, but the Newport government, the city manager, Joe Nicholson, the police chief, Jerry Silver, Lieutenant Corey hugged, and into a detective now promoted to sergeant Jackie waste

absolutely abandoned the truth. In this case. Let's pause for a moment for word from our spotters, we'll be right back. Did you know a birth control pill doesn't need estrogen to prevent pregnancy, say hello to estrogen phrase, Lynde Effective for women of all body types, a good option of you smoke or have thus killer issues and flexible window to catch up on a mist. Pale dont, excellent if you have kidney liver or during a problem, cervical cancer, home on sensitive cancer or unexplained vaginal bleeding before taking slim, tell your doctor if he may be pregnant or have had blood clots. Stroke. Heart attack high potassium in your blood diabetes, your depression, which can lead to serious side effects, talk to your doctor is it slim dot com, then we ve perturbed. This leads us to add something. We talk a little bit about off air, but I'm sure a lot of our folks tuning in today or wondering, in this case specific

we were in some of the other cases that you have covered. Have you ever felt that you were in physical danger. I mean, I know, there's a lot of litigious folks out there, but did you have You know when you were getting followed by age from the FBI or maybe shadowy members of the criminal underworld- did you ever to have one of those mom swear. You genuinely thought wholly. These folks may come for me, in order to wage war, there two central elements right You need operations, you need people blowing things up on the ground and then you need intelligence right? You need spies, no successful war the time of Sun who has ever been fought without birthright intelligence is crucial. So my first book recounts, story of Rumsey Use this genius bomb maker, who is the net

you of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who not only created the original nine hundred and eleven excuse me, the bombing of the trade center in nineteen. Ninety three, but also you know, was the detective. The nine eleven attacks which he designed in the Philippines that we're about to be executed as early as eighteen, ninety five, but they had a fire in their bomb factory he include shake fled to is Islam abide and he was arrested, use they picked up his his partner Abdullah came a rod who is gonna, be the original pilot training for U S, flight schools and he was back to New York with Rumsey, and so the plot was thwarted at that point. But it was clear. the bank robber Bin Laden- and, as I said, I proved this in the book and it was later vindicated by the superseding indictment of yourself and chaos M by the southern. Just the New York. When my thoughts, book came out on the cover we had Patrick Fitzgerald. We focused on and Patrick Fitzgerald at the time was probably one of the most powerful feds in that

his department when he was in the southern district of New York. He was at the head of, ironically, both organised crime and terrorism unit. He was very close friend of James call me when call me was at the idea. Rector I mean with when Commie was: U S attorney for the southern district? He appointed get Patrick Fitzgerald appointed. U S attorney in Chicago where he went on to indict Nagoya, which you know the governor- and he also was the this special council, in the CIA leak case, the Bowery Plain case, okay, we're scooter. Libby was convicted and then part later Pard Mete out in that whole thing. Well, Patrick Fitzgerald, after this book came out after was published that thick put their trouble cross. This thick was published already out, Patrick Fitzgerald began writing a series of single space threat, letters to harbour collins. He over a twenty month period, he wrote force,

letters in which he said. Not only do I want this book popped, the existing copies of the book that are out there destroyed. I want Harper Collins, never to publish trade paperback addition which is traditionally year later and so Harper com initially rejected him and then its own by Rupert Murdoch by the way, but it's one of the media entities that Murdoch has never put his finger prints on politically Harper Collins at the time it the largest english language publisher in the world, and I never got any intervention to slant things, one where the other was a who was a great place to do for books for so anyway, initial lawyer for heart, because of the time marked Jackson sent a letter to Fitzgerald Flat refusing this saying this is an important work and investigative journalism in basic. Sorry, Mr Fitzgerald, you know, and then he got wind when Rupert Murdoch. Bogged DOW Jones Mark Jackson went to be the general counts. Four DOW Jones, which publishes the Wall Street Journal Gay will now

new person the took over for him, who is less sure of herself, was chilled when Patrick this year. Also, another letter which he facts from office of: U S attorney Chicago. How is that not a chill? How does not set a chill, despite of a new general Council, for a major publishers, just trying to do sea legs and were so. She decides to open an hour investigation and they hire law firm in Chicago General Block, very expensive white shoe firm and they proceed to have I got a year and a half months investigation in which they made me prove every single fact. In the book report after the book had already been vetted for plant found fit for publication. That slow meta. What did you do it took me out a play. It kept me from doing my job to get my next book of the first two books took two years from start to finish. The last book to two years

from the last book. Actually after this, the third one took six years, because I two years out, I was taken out of play. Finally, I got I basically after the several heads, its harbour cause and left. I convinced the current head too. I was gonna, go public debt in published a paper back, and I asked them to. Let me do twenty six pages in the newspaper, back on. This hope is Gerald escapade. The just before the book came out in the in the summer of I guess, twenty eleven or something like that. Ok, I wrote a post in which AIDS Challenge Petrovitch Gerald, if you have it out of evidence that you ve been liable than any way shape or form come out, brother bring it and he just scuttled into the dark this guy, but think of who he was so when I was in New York that that triple cross. This second book cover up prompted this indictment of this Europe,

this former FBI supervisor, Linda Vecchio on for council murder, conspiracy by the Brooklyn Ba when I was in New York, they wanted they. They supported me both the defence in the press, fusion supported me. They want my sources and I'll go to jail before Let us also basically Harbour Collins attorneys at the time we're when shedding me in New York for two weeks they had all my evidence in her in a conference room and guarded by security guards and everything you know, and I was taking them through oh choreography, of all my work, so they could prepare a motion to quash the indictment which they did eventually right, But while I was in New York during that period, I was followed by two former member. the FBI, New York Office, who call them they had a group called the friends of Linda Vecchio, the day, Linda Vecchio,

indicted in Brooklyn and he's out watch the perp walk outside as he's leaving court. He is surrounded by, like maybe twenty five agents, big guys, all in blue suits with red or white shirt, red or blue tie, and there pushing the press out of the way like their soccer hooligans. Okay, literally this happen- and I was like hey, hey, you know, is trying to get the Vecchio to answer a question that night an FBI in a former agent who is a big supporter of my earlier work. They actually shove a match book in my pocket that day, as he was passing measure- and I looked at it at midnight special, and I was a diner- this guy lived on the Upper EAST side, so I get to the diner needs listen Peter, I'm telling you. I can't protect you on this. One brother, you know Do you know this guy risk he actually went down to New Jersey and interviewed I when I entered, a a former member of the fires.

A woman who is a member of the mosque that we're all these terrorist hung out and in life, You know had literally get the plans of the World Trade Center prior to the bombing from the fired upon. So I had to give this guy and opportunities. this guy, this FBI agent. I don't want a name him, but he's legendary wrote a best selling book. He said I'm not letting you get down there alone, so he took me down. I met him up in Harlem at a Mercedes. He had a bill, O Reilly, no spin zone hat and we went down there and interviewed this this individual, who is an egyptian working in the in the empty and why who got the plans of the of the trade center bombing and he was on the arm. We had a video of him on the arm of blind shake Omar of direct man, who is the Pope of Radical Islam, ok convicted and applaud the beloved just in tunnels and intimate hat and who Patrick Fitzgerald prosecuted. Ok,

so. I'm I'm lit literally. You know going to see this guy in this. This FBI, agent had my back anyway, but that, when I was in New York during the whole period in their preparing me for this emotion to quash in this murder trial, I'm being followed by these two guys who I nickname. Patton, MIKE's they're constantly on me all the time. It was more like hey we're in your where it, where on your six brother, you know don't get too uppity. You know what I mean, but I didn't feel per se, but that's how I'm handed these guys are and what they can when they want to suppress the true while I've I heard a story like happier. Never turn off somebody actually being tabled by the by since I retired around it is an issue that I like. I can't wait to send. I wrote a ten our dramatic scripted series all about said I'm hoping to get made at some point.

and I have seen there were there's a young lawyer that, with these two lawyers for Harper Collins, you no one was an old wasps kind of guy when Wellesley, Lock jaw and then another one was a young half jewish half italian kid and he was in the beginning, is like come on. Let's get to the chase cut to the chase, stop talking talk forever, and I thought one day I kind of pending against the wall and this conference room I said: listen while you were watching Barney drinking out of her Purple CUP, I covering the war and El Salvador do no cases I mean you can break for a minute, ok, just chill, and then that guy came over. That guy became one of my big supporters. So one night I went, he said I I ve been down at ground zero. He had never gone. You know, like you know, so one to come down and they were following me and they just came up behind the car and I just jumped in further carnage come just now and then they corset.

what was I going to do, they could have could have done a Doris duke on me for all I knew. But the point is that you have the you have to stand up to these guys and end problem with the FBI and I'll be brief. I know where we're going way of a field here, but the problem He's federal agencies when it comes to journalism, they they they no, that they have the power right. We actually journalists have the power, but what they do is they convince even papers like the New York Times, which has a bureau which has a somebody in residence at the southern district? That's where this individuals office was that read my book. The first time there's nothing new only to write the article about the superseding indictment and the FBI is punitive. They go if you You know right the kind of story we want the next time we have a exclusive you're, not gonna, get it, and so they get intimidated to see what I mean, though you're not going to lose out and and and divide and conquer, which is how all bullies operate? They divide

and conquer, and whether in way and journalists should stick together and go now, and I can be intimidated by that. You know and so that this issue is more insidious insidious, because this kind of like self you being she'll but you're killing yourself from coming for, Where do you know what I mean, that is that's. That's an issue that I have observed over many decades, so these are legitimate. The desert like journalistic war stories and their invaluable, because we have is further, These will want to make this a two part or folks. We have a lot of votes in the audience today who themselves are body or hopefully going to be cut, budding investigative journalist hoping to follow in a path like yours in the future, so they have a couple of questions think that no one I can kind of predict here and one of the first two per question? What are the first is

What are remedies for? That's the gonna, be the fan, question and then the second question is going to be what sort of Advice- Do you have for anyone listening now who, like you, wants to have a career speaking truth to power. I was the first of the three, these three NASH memories, I actually was this: the station award for W see local. So what have? with me as I went to Colombia, graduates of journalism, which is this remarkable? We know one year Masters programme was back, then a hundred greatest a brightest. People in the world, half of whom were from foreign countries, and you go. There for a year and interesting- is- is a chance to get to New York City really and so on Similarly, I then went to w any tee, the public tv flagship in New York as a producer,

Sir, and I want a couple of local enemies there, and then I went to W B C local, which many people call. I witless news. It was pretty lines you know has been those days, but they allowed me to do some, some pretty compelling investigative reporting and for them, We have this thing called the help centre, which is kind of a consumer ombudsman enterprise and we had Fordham University lost students at law, it was right across from Lincoln Centre for maybe see, and so there was a great profess M Sheila burn bomb, and she said to me: you know Peter you're going to be doing this kind of work. Your whole career, you should get a lot of green ago. Thank you. That's good! Thank you for that advice he's. No, I'm telling you you're gonna come up, you're gonna get sued for libel, adjust the nature of the beast and truth is an absolute that's what you need to prepare yourself. I said well local she says I took the else at night: just barely got into Fordham LAW School and then the first year. I went the night school and I almost flunked out

like a seventy two hours, because our work and all day long and I was exhausted, so I quit went to, and why you that summer I finished in three. I finished it for them years ago my J D went back to a b c I worked on twenty twenty and I did it. Investigation of arson ring in Chicago as producer, and that was the second Emmy that I did and then I became a corresponding, I get an offer from Dan rather to go to work on. Sixty minutes is a producer, and I basically use that to say to my. Hassan 2020ave Weston, hey man, I'm going to untangle this joint. If you don't give me a shot and if I'm terrible on camera will drop Tom Jarrell into it or somebody you don't like that letter will drop legit voice in delivering and so all right, so I did this piece on unnecessary surgery in southern hospital and we got sued for fifty. a million dollars when in any one, It shut the hospital down. I was totally right because why truth is an absolute defence

to that. In a minute of my advice to the to the young out there. and so we have this trial and the Ozark Mounds and federal court. We had to change the venue from the town. We can't because they would lynched us first rather than try to us. You know like one of those situations so were in favour with a university is where they at least read. You they're your rights, where they lynch you so anyway. So the trial goes on. There was a Reagan appointed judge. We would have won an appeal because every little ruling was against this, but basic We know we won the case. Right entered the jury, like a half an hour, so we're back. the hotel in their hotel in town, celebrating how little champagne and our lead council was buddy, sudden who's, the dean of the law school and little rock men glided. It was like timely Jones in a white suit. He was class act, he was there was the brute primary council. Surrender in the phone rings, and it was ruin our knowledge than written legendary president of aid see news and sports. The man who came

but the line the thrill of victory, the agony of defeat. Ok, he took over. Be news. He used to wear safari jackets and in Smoke Churchill Cigars and he had a chauffeur driven JAG. He was larger than life. He created ABC News as we as it later became a great news entity. He got Barbara Waters, he got the same here you know David briefly to come over. You know Peter Jennings. First, they had the troika of three reporters, then PETE, the great Peter Jennings God rest his soul, world news and I so rule out, which is on the phone and whenever ruin our village called yet a red phone in every control room, and it was never good news. He would always give notes, you know like it, and so he on the phone and ruins is Peter. You know you ve got some promise, my wife, my my way thinks you you get promising, oh really thank you. You just gettin married to a beautiful young woman and I said well

but he said a man. You got a you got to learn this job, cuz you're, really terrible on camera. So we're going to put you on Nightline and you're going to learn this job, and I said oh man will thank you ruin cuz. He let everybody call him room and then to me. This is how he entered the car if you had lost this case, your next job and in I'd casting would have been on the window at Burger King and he hung up yeah like again, but then I went to Nightline. I made my bones, and then I went to world news tonight at my own The Vienna bill, Lord, the head of Nightline, came to the big show The Jenin show You know I did some compelling investigative reporting for x number of years. There met my now. Ex wife died. I was this brilliant computer graphic designer, and now we had our first child and we had some issues medically. So we I came to Hollywood too in order like make. The same kind of money are combined. Salaries gave us before

without selling heroin. You know what I mean. I wanted to do some kind of work and I always Hollywood, so I got to Michael Man the great Michael man. He was here already My revises the hit men. He was doing. This new show called crime story. I cover the Teamsters. I knew that, and so I got snuck onto the universal lot, one day came out to allay, and I got he gave me. He said you have five minutes to blow. Back against the wall and he laid back and with his protect fully, and I just through every proper Nana, my life at the guy at the undergoes. Ok, ok, I'll, give story. Option tell up, like I said, was that he said well, will pay for the whole thing. But if we don't like your story, will that's it you're careers? rise and I'll take it. So we originally hired me on staff, and I had a fifteen year career but getting too young but I want to do this or go out before me ten years ago, I would have advised people start print journalism, because it's a great discipline there is no,

print journalism is is- is has been got it essentially at the local level, because local journalism, they say politics are all local. A journalism is local. Okay. This scheme you need to turn to the two right under pressure cover an event daily deadline pressure, whether you covering an accident or a trial, or anything is the skill and you have your reporters notebook and you learn how to do it under pressure and in you know, you write the storing your file and the next day it start all over again, okay, so that is a fantastic disciplined, local print journalism, but not always available. Now, because, like the Newport Daily NEWS is owned by Jeanette, and you know- and it's like I have to say that are used to have, and it's not anywhere near as strong in terms of standing up to official authority. As the daily when I worked there. So what would say the to do, if you're interested in doing this set up set up a website,

have a website. I, if you gotta Peter last com. I use. I use a word site. That is the kind of is this, I'm kind of journalistic front page is the Arizona Republic in a bunch of newspapers uses, because I see myself still in that vein as apparent report, but I have a website and after Trump got elected, actually right after you get elected, I set up. Another website called investigating trump dot com. That was a pass through site, I just curated all the best reporting- and you know it in its centrally I had to quit when I started doing this investigation of do because it was like owning and an in you can never leave. You know every day they ve been more reporting, so I pretty much stopped it, but that was what I did there, because there are neither sites were commercial. No ads is that I just went to take the peace from our York Times and then I would, in the first paragraph, I'd connected back

the original peace- I always you know, tweet about the peace in the reporters- would were grateful there get the extra covers anyway. What I would say to people right now get a website start pouring whatever your interest is true crime, politics, whatever it is, but this is the most important thing you can do, because the present in trouble again caused so much doubt in the public mind called us, the enemy and the people, because there is this notion of fake news, Beak B, because this terrible fracture in everybody sense of reality about what is real and what is it? You have to be scrupulous in your annotations, ok, and when you do a story, you go back and you look at Peter last common I haven't Am I happy new posts stories? There you'll see, link in all those stories to other entities because we stand on the shoulders of giants and you have to u Wanna give Chris

where credit is due right. You want it's like say: ok! Well I got. lead from so and so, and the New York Times the Washington Post, but then I've advance that lead if you'd there that if you have a well designed website- and your brief, unlike make em all the known. I talk forever, but if you're the kind of young person that admires brick brevity, I'm not talking about Tik Tok brevity, but I'm talking about you know like it- a typical peace or in the daily beast you do that and you you make a name for yourselves and what, if you're, even if it's in the local town, you can win a Pulitzer Prize now for a website. Ok, you know for local reporting. You can do it, you could hit you now and then Go onto an amazing career where people actually pay you a salary. If you want, but there's nothing, thrilling. I always said this to my kids. You know: there's the worst tension in the world is having a rock

down on you as your climbing up a clip. It's harder to push the rock up the cliff, there's a lot of freedom in that you know. So, at a certain point, my career, I stop doing I'd news, I didn't want to take an assignment from the desk, because I just go up and do that that the benefit is it six o clock you Father Torreon its Miller time you go to the bar whatever, but invest. Reporting. You have to come up with the story and they take longer to do, but there's so much more rewarding and potentially have life chain. and you know, results I'll, tell you what I know we gotta liberty, this one thing recently, I put together a powerpoint sanitation for when I went to Newport for on the tenth of December from my last big book signing and because the Newport Cautious, did the case so summarily I wanted to add a little bit need in the Powerpoint Nicky. I use key point, Zelman Apple Guy, and I want

the little bit a background on you know where I done where I came from my background, and I found a story that I had done for world news tonight on your meteor collisions and this nineteen. Eighty four and President Reagan had fired all the patio nine thousand air travel. controllers who try to union eyes and why we're getting reports anecdotally in a bunch of other news that there were near midair, collisions, left and right in the definition of a near amateur collision. When two planes come within five hundred feet and they were in that silly Reagan. Administration was had a guy, admiral hangin and ahead of the Epp. Ed come on David Brinkley and say the number of near mid air collisions has been cut in half since we took over and they came up with this to uttered and eighty whatever its statistics. Ok, so we ABC. Let me spend three weeks on this story. Eternity and I had a young- assists the name Randy prior and we basically got foil at all. the near MID air collision reports from all the day. The region

centres, the bag, and we proved The number was actually double enduring the brow. Cause I'm in the control room cause. That's what we would do. You know when you had a piece I might might now X Y on is down there doing dino, computer graphics and they get a phone. And literally the ep. When have you seen this happen in government lately they? Actually. that they were wrong during the broadcasts and they re adjusted. The graphic at the end and Jennings announced that, at the end, that was not the most one thing that happened. What the most important thing that happens, I report and, I think called T Cas leg of a collision of in system there was a pilot programme and a couple of planes that were at the time and as a result of this peace that I did the the Senate oversight Khamenei pushed to get tee CAS. Instead, All in all the airlines in about twenty five years went by you know and I'm like driving along one day, and I hear and CBS News that the nuts,

of near mid air collisions has dropped to like zero because of tea cas. You know It's an example of what happens when journalism is on an issue precisely and they capture the imagination of the public. The public puts pressure on people in power and change happens, I only we can leave on a stronger point that I want to sure people I mean we sent him many times on this episode already Peter Land STAR com. The book is homicide. It rough point you fine that on Amazon, I'm sure that's the best fastest. For anybody to get that, there's a link on my website to it, but it's in hard cover of trade paper Kindle a book and audible and Mr Peter Lance did his own voice for his writing, so check that If you enjoyed listening to him on this episode, I know you ve got other stuff coming up in you know I would you say if you're interested please go to

reliance icon. You will see because there's upcoming stuff, that idle the spoil really here, but there's really interesting upcoming things from Peter Man. Just we can think after your time. It's been a pleasure You guys are just went by like that. To me, I don't know: what's going to sound like your listeners, but I I'd love to do some other stuff. You on all this year, the road to nine eleven stopped because it remains. still like people really done understand you another all kinds of conspiracy theories around the nine eleven attack seven world trade, there's a lot of interesting stuff that you know you can prove that happen, and but I would love to explore that with you and also I sent a mad. A copy of my. What am I to novels is called a stranger four, five six. It has to do with cereal killing and developed and expertise in that area. I did a film executive produced, a film called the river man, for

any several years ago. That was all about how TED Bundy. This is true story, help to find the Green river killer on his death on death row of these two cops Bob or from the state of Washington, went down there and basically solve the the the murders in Washington on the on the eve of his execution is so we did a movie about that. So got me into the whole serial killer world and I am very critical of the vaunted FBI. behavioral analysis unit at Quantico, the silence of the lamp sweet being As you know, they they ve lost a lot of. They missed a lot of cases because of profiling, which is bedrock. Everybody thinks L profiling, that's the basic. We what they don't want to get caught the human beings and they changed their mos and their profiles from time to time, and if you have that, if you're excluding evidence than It would have to give it always here

how relations are needed here. So I see yes, as, as you said, man think so much Peter Lance. The website is Peter Lance dot com. We ve talked in depth about the Doris do case, but make no mistake folks, theirs. much more to the story, this is in ongoing story. At this point Peter. You have a second book that you are working on. I don't know how you find the time in the day, but we have enormous respect for what you are we and thank you as well for the Clarion all the words of inspiration for, journalists in the audience with us today we can't wait to hear more and we know that you will agree. So. Thank you once again spread of pleasure guys. Thank you. So much well dates. Chris.

receive with all my gosh. It is because our Christmas Eve episode better get so wrapped up in inner. Come he hath, hey, You future importers out there in current ones and everybody else listening, hey guess what Mary miss you. I set it off Happy Holidays, where too well yes, unhappy fry if you're not in the holiday thing. We we wanted to thank everybody for the gift you gave us over here on the show, and you might be thinking I didn't you guys anything. You did. He give us your time and it means to us. We really cannot overemphasize that we want to hear from you we want to hear for any budding journalist out there when you hear some of the stories you're working on one hear here. The ways in which you are speaking truth to power. We try to be easy to find

line just sit up on Facebook and Twitter Instagram. You can find us pretty easily end. If you say hey, I list, enjoy your episodes about this scary rise of the surveillance state, vs social media- I don't those social needs, then you can call us directly. You can talk to us, right nobody's monitoring those phone calls just getting. Yes, they do, but it's ok they will monitor this one. When you call us Our number is one in three three std w. Why T k when you call him give yourself a really cool nickname? Let us know if we can use your message on the air and your voice and just say what everyone You ve got three minutes they're. Yours just go wild with it. We can't wait to hear from you and If you do not like to use your phone in that way, like. You use your phone as an email device. You know that thing with electrons

communications, you can also send us links that way. You can send us stories. Any thoughts, maybe will fit into that three minute. Voicemail send us everything you ve got. We cannot wait to read it. Is we read everything we receive our? The address is conspiracy that I heard radio dot com

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