Are you excited for little fires everywhere on Hulu? While so are we would why we made a whole podcast about it appropriately named little fires everywhere at the official podcast, my name's he left us and, along with show runner executive producer and had riderless tiggle are waiting to be taking you behind the scenes of the show. Every week. So make sure to listen to a little fires everywhere at the official podcast on the I hurt, radio, app apple pod cats or wherever you get your podcast and stream. Hullo little fires everywhere, starring Reese Witherspoon and carry Washington now only on Hulu, he cannot get, and I would invite you to listen to a new pod cash from the Dodo, an animal saved, my life, the Dodo is there most watch animal storyteller on social and now it's bringing those stories to life in audio here about a dog untrained knows detects cancer sooner than a machine can and a people who put it health between her mom in an oncoming train. Listen

an animal saved my life on the hearth, radio, app on Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. From you at those two psychic powers and government conspiracies history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now. Or learn the stuff. They don't want you to know welcome back to the show. My name is met the cold Ben you joined with our super producer, Mr Paul ACT now deck and haven't heard you are a man, friends and neighbours, and that makes this stuff. They don't want you to know that mad mad man. Yes, this is something it's been on: our mutual mine,

yeah. I've always wanted to see. You know start my own business really get out there, and these be my own boss, yeah yeah too big a due to endless due to the endless drudgery of working for some other schmo or a company and become finally the captain of your own fate them stir of your own soul. To paraphrase Invictus, which is agreed, I'm really is So in light of that were let some, let's see, I think Somebody has an offer for us, so let let's cut to him and let's see what he's got to say, the dreams you told me about. We can actually do now. We don't like the way man it works. And I don't want it and I want to help you do because it so this is we can. We can have the occasions and sailboats weakening, mobile homes, and you didn't give you why the jewelry

the figures are gonna. Be here come on. Let's get get out Joe is getting the hard. So here really is the part you can't see from that is that this man is onstage in front of hundreds of people. Maybe a thousand people and he's yelling at a tombstone of this gentleman, a tombstone that reads Joe no body we're in what nineteen fifty by something like that. So the voice you just heard is the one of these spokespeople for what's called eight in El M or multi level, marketing based company and direct sales company and in his performance which-

quite the agriculture. He is gesticulating wildly in front of this styrofoam tombstone and begging this tombstone or the implied dead, worthless person beneath it to rise up through the power of multi level, marketing and discover his dreams. He needs several things. Boats mould multiple homes, yet all the jewellery, your spouse or a loved one could ever want right because of course, every spouse define success through jewellery, of course, but before we get to two critical, we we play this clip which I think we all thoroughly enjoyed, and we ask you, if you have time to, I can check it out on Youtube. I think it's been featured in a number of places are one of which was last week. Tonight. Yes, last week tonight with John Oliver, it there's an entire thirty five minute episode. Thirty one may

but so do have long. It was on this topic in particular rights, because it's a gigantic industry, and today we're going to learn just how enormous this industry is, how much of it is transparent? How much of it is hidden from the public from the civilians as well as from the adherents? Dare I say, the disciples or the recruits of these organisations and the best way to start this, of course, with the american dream. Yes, but this guy's doing when he's yelling at Joe. Nobody is tapping into this concept, that's funny clear to anyone across the planet. You don't have to be one of our listeners based in the? U S to realise this think everybody recognizes the idea to with five kids a summer home, and you know what nonsense get a boat

and your own business, Mercedes and a Mercedes, of course, an extra slow Mercedes cause. You don't have to hurry ripe, not at all. So this is an enormously appealing if intimidating opportunity, the idea of going out there on your own without a safety net and becoming your own means of income there, a multitude of various programmes, organisations and institutions in the United States today that claim to assist people in pursuit of this dream us Maybe governments supported such as government loan programmes that happen with would be small business owners or even incubators suited for certain types of companies. There might also be tax breaks day. You can even get non profit consultation services or even private companies that we'll just provide assistance in some other four year right.

Assistance will give will help here. End today is episode centres on a gene raw of company. In that private sphere. Today's episode is examining one of the more controversial types of phenomena in the world of entrepreneurship. The practice known as multi level. Marketing has got some other names, direct sale, There's a lot of times comes into it. Trying to think there's. One big one is thing triangle shaped triangle plan triangle, the other two triangle scheme, isosceles strategy, yeah something that event let Arafat alkaline near people are on the edge of their seats. Would it? What are we really talking about man? We're talking about? currently legally function. Pyramid schemes- it's true also sometimes called ponzi skating- might recognize them if you'd tuned into the tell it

the radio. During the made off scandal, you may recognize various forms of con jobs that have existed in the past and reason, three and in older history, and you may wonder: what's what's the difference between these multilevel marketing things and these pyramid schemes? Are they all the same? To answer that question? First, we have to ask ourselves what multilevel marketing or in El Em, so that matters I don't kill ourselves trying to always pronounced that trick areas. We have to ask what these things are, how do we define them? So here are the facts. Yes, so a multi level, marketing company worry an entity that functions in that way, It's it's really a general term in it describes these strategies for marketing that these companies use and they use non salaried human beings there there

forces all non salaried, then they sell a product or service whatever the company is peddling, while the earnings of the participants are derived from a commission system that, like most of the money, that the people working for the company are not drive from sales, their derived from the commission that you get from the sales yeah yeah. This is where you hear the allegations that something is pyramid scheme. Yes, so specifically, a direct sale company might use this strategy to encourage existing distributors to recruit new distributors into this network. Into this hierarchy, just like you had established Matt, so let's say once once read the room: we're gonna throw a look over a Paul Paul. May we use you as an example in this hypothetical ok, he sees not a little bit just barely up there. It is his. He is so tired of these reindeer Katy S. Alright, let's say Paul ACT now deck and is an existing distributor, for

and we can make up an accompanying ok, how about vintage jelly beans, a perfect church? Yes, there are aged vintage jelly beings. Are you tired of news? here. It is that these are the ones you remember. So let's say that Paul is pitched on this idea of joining the vintage Jelly being LLC whenever it calls itself. So we can buy products, then from vintage jelly beings from their factory and sell these jelly beings to our heart's content. Paul can do that and he can make a off it of some sort based on the volume of sales. Ok. So how would you feel how much he sells? He gets a tiny bit legal Obese lightened right. He gets a beam,

then the only guy I know Paul is also told that he doesn't just have to sell jellybean. He can make additional income and possibly quite a bit by recruiting his friends, his family members, his coworkers and anyone else who can find making them distributors of Jelly beans as well. So they do the same thing that Paul is doing, but then the since they work for him, because in addition to the small cut of every being sale that he makes, he also gets a cut of every jelly being sale that his people make woe Ok, so that ok, so that means the people as you're going down if distribute you getting money, getting money, getting money, getting money on the way up that all this is already feel like a pyramid scheme. Guess I don't know because appall recruits us in this story

and he stands to make more money than us for sure yeah. But then we recruit somebody and we get a little bit of air peace, but then Paul still gets a piece of our peace. Yeah yeah answer hidden is it does go up? You are right about the cognitive geometry hold up, ok, So that's called downloading right down line outline the download down lying down and the incentive here is that once you or Paul or anyone has the new recruits hooked in working to sell these beings. You are making money, not just off them, but off of everybody they recruit as each of the distributors under you recruit more people under then you get a percentage of those people, sales as well as those people recruit new people. You get DC. How this is. This is its entering growing, oh yeah, the the exponential growth is pretty apparent and it feels like it could be quite a bit coming into me? If I'm at the top, or at least, if I

ART in somewhere and get enough people below me and let's pause you just for a second. I I wanted to ask you this: on AIR Matt. Have you ever been approached by some thin some entity like this Where do you know someone who has, I would say most people- and this is conjecture, but I was most, people who were on Facebook probably have at least one friend then has maybe either approached you or is consistently putting our feelers to be like anybody anyone allow Paul's nodding to central oil. You gotta get this essential oil work from home chair your life, you are you. Are you in active parrot on the Oh, you have time to be locked down in a ninety five check out my Mary hey Products, Saint John very supplements, so

We have seen it on Facebook that and I have the dubious benefits. Of a time say my college days being approached by people with a sure fire idea in the weird thing was these would be people at cop your fears la so they would be. They would have you they would have a table reboot right next to say Coca COLA version like that there is in any way examined, and I'm not. I don't know for sure whether that continues in the modern day on college campuses, your, but I know we would like to hear from you listeners right in a conspiracy house of works that calm and let us know if you have had direct experience with these. Organizations wait a minute is that how how stuff works that he got picked up, because the whole thing here is that if

come on and you start a podcast. Then you get three other people to start podcast, and then you get that's how it works. You re Download re, thankfully, that is not Kay so far out you're right, maybe we're not far enough up in the pyramid, though that phone manner, I imagine just like the dark tower, would if there's a room, the very top we gotta climate. Blind, we have to climb this up line man, we ve gotta, convert people, and then have those people convert people. What could go wrong, gather Stephanie stuff. They could go wrong and will hear about it right after a quick word from our sponsor today's will hear about it by Geico Gemini, you may find yourself struggling with alertness today. That's because want you to know is brought to buy hundreds of season is here, It can be a pain, it's an emotional roller coaster. Sometimes it's all feels worth it. We open up the mailbox you see that one envelope uber waiting for unless it.

Somebody else already filed your return, which is a real thing. Look into it. It's kind of scary, during taxis in your personal info, like your name or social security number. All that stuff can be emailed in shared more than usual is true. Criminals can steal information from your very. Devices and sell it on the dark web or use it to commit identity theft. You need lifelike, the number one most recognise brand and identity theft. Protection is what life locked us they monitor for uses of your personal info, the alert you to possible suspicious activity, and if you become a victim of identity theft. A dedicated identity, restoration, specialist will work with you to fix it. Here's the deal no can prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses, but having lifelike means one less thing: distress about during TAT season, join now and save up to twenty five percent off your first year, just gotta, lifelike telecoms. Last conspiracy: that's lifelong dot com, slash conspiracy for twenty five.

He set off. Sort of stuff they don't want. You to know is brought to you by native, hey you guys, I'm sick you're, looking at my wife's native deodorant that she loves It- is Africa caught and white peach. She uses this thing every day, she's tried a tie of different deodorants, and this is the only one that she says works for her, because its aluminum free, it's baking, soda free doesn't irritate her arms and it smells great because odorants with aluminum, can actually form like these plugs. That clog up your swift glance to keep you from sweater. That doesn't seem. Sure or healthy, so natives deodorants are made without any aluminum sea can feel better about what you're putting on your body. Not only does it work

it also works in style. You dont have to choose just one sent their over ten different sense. They have classic sense. They have rotating seasonal, you're, you're, guaranteed to find one love, whether its cocoanut, vanilla, hinder arose, rose cucumber amid the goes on and on there's something for everyone. Literally everyone for men for women, even teens Iccat specialised teens products and you can get free shipping every order and native offers thirty day free returns and exchanges within the United States Savage give it a try. Twenty percent off your first order, you can visit native deodorant dot com and use the promo code. Conspiracy at check out. That's native deodorant dot com use the promo code conspiracy during check out. Here's where it gets crazy, so much stuff to go wrong play

your stuff. Cartoonish amount of stuff can and does go wrong. So much so, in fact that things. Wrong, becomes more of the rule than the exception in this industry. Despite what its advocates may, what you to believe and is very, very important? We are not saying that all of these things are bad. Multilevel marketing itself is a strategy, yes employed by a company right yeah, and it really is marketing. I mean it's in the name, multi level marketing, your marketing, your product by getting people to talk about it, mostly on social media, and it doesn't matter what you're selling that's the other thing. Yes, its product agnostic. Yes, it can be vintage jelly beans, it can be a deed. Is wind suits, skin care products, skin care products is by far the most realistic thing on this list. This boy so, though place we're good sticky is the definition between Nl, multilevel marketing, verses weight.

You mentioned Earlier- met a pyramid scheme or, as it's been known in pejorative terms, a ponzi scheme so, in L, a multi level marketing as a strategy, a technique grid approach is not in and of itself, inherently illegal. In fact, there are some companies that practice strategies like this that do quite well and are fairly reputable tupperware, for instance, yeah right they sell they tend to sell products through parties bite somebody over for a Tupperware party. Very american thing- I don't know anyone who has gone to a Tupperware party, but I am reasonably certainly exist. The other they do exist. It have you seen that your efforts for family, I have arrived. The bill. Burka there's a whole as just my I'm channeling, nor for this There is a fair

The whole side story where the main character spouse joins a group like that that sells Tupperware, specifically in its this way in her garage just filled with tupperware. Oh I'm so glad you mention garages. Oh we had yet Abbott rules for the distribution of money or products on the down line or the applying. Maybe they feel that they have found January, at the very least when new recruits are promised scabs of money, only to find that there are hidden expenses that they are wire to buy in as an investor, for instance, that they are required to purchase x amount of these products. These jelly being skin care products. Health supplements, foes, Adidas track suit. Yet here when suits whatever.

We are also extremely convoluted rules about what what you have to do in order to get the money they are allocated from all your other people, your download or whatever its gives, a pretty crazy, and it goes case by case. Yes, it is purposefully up two's. Well, maybe it's maybe it is unfair. Maybe we are using a broad brush to pink these things may be the people who have built these very elaborate rules for the distribution of money or products on the down line or the applying. Maybe they feel that they have found the most efficient, transparent way and perhaps most fair way to distribute the money, maybe maybe that is clearly not true in every case, but maybe you have to give people the benefit of the doubt right Thea, so

an additional issue with this. Is that let's say you are required to buy a hundred pounds, vintage jelly beans or euro x amount of chances, cases, cases Viejo X, amount of cases of a miracle water or a skin, rejuvenating wrinkle remover. What you may find is that the price you have to buy it at is going to be higher than it would have been if you went and bought x, amount of cases at target or the supermarket right well, and it may not be available in stores. That's another big things: LE proprietary branding, but then additionally might find out. These products are not what their cracked up to be They're, not quality. They break or the health claims if they exist

Laura wildly optimistic and not research, not proven by anything other than an long anecdotes. The better Business Bureau described several red flags that you may find when you initially begin conversations with one of these entities the other. First one should be a red flag for anyone at any time and that's any time someone is promising you. Yes, you high earnings especially without having to do much at all, just very little effort very little time spent or any real, serious commitment, money, wise or other the money just makes itself and all handles it. Yeah I mean come on. What do you think I do this? You did the majority of the working needed to do. When you took this leap of faith, recognise this opportunity and have you ever thought about you? I think you could recruit a lot of people.

I think that I think of you and Paul, and nor could all do an equally good job. What if we work together. This is dangerous territory for dangerous territory, especially because, as people find out, we are ourselves already involved in a tight imagine, but it's not it's not wars eyes. So, let's get to the second big, so The second thing is we to do this. You gonna make money super easy and I don't have to do much, but the one thing you do have to do. You know what it takes money too to make money. You gotta purchase a whole hell of a lot of inventory, a lot of stuff you gonna, buy it that you say you get started. You gotta have that in your possession, so you can sell all the stuff and get a prime. The pump can't sell what you don't have We were also here's. The thing. Look, you dear,

in this. You can make all this money. The one thing we can do is guarantee that will buy back any unsold products that you have ok we're just gonna. You know where we might buy back for like a percentage of what you bought it for it. If we have to linger restocking, VIII shore but weren't, you know we can't we just. We have faith in you as a distributor and we we dont think we need to worry about it. We also adult take checks, that's gonna be another red flag. The money required to invest. That's the term we like to use just to get started yet that money must be paid in cash or a wire transfer or a money order. Those are three red flags when you see them waving the consensus

from most financial experts is to write to you to remove yourself from the situation, and you it's. You know it's easy for us now, all of us all of us. Sneeze today and for us exploring this in the safety of a red phones. You seem to have phones in our swell podcast. Do you it's easy for us While I would immediately leave, I don't fall for that sort of flim flam right but, as we will learn There are tried and true techniques that are used to make people feel obligated through some sort of psychological manipulation to buy into these things. I had similar to the way that somebody might win a a vacation. I know I Matt Paul. I know you guys have both probably received those

mailers that say: oh it's chance to win a vacation do know you already won a cruise. That's what it is you ve already won. All you have to do is travelled a book of it yeah and what you, what happens is that you arrive at these places only to find that did when the crews, but first we want to give you a tour of these condoms up and you in the market. Today real estate is the best investment. It really is, and can you imagine, look here. The Wyndham resort in Boca return have actually been only those recently there yet cruiser one of those try to sell you a kind of. If I can do this, the railway some fear members that I was with on a small vacation.

Saw that there was at the small, an opportunity to have dinner paid for for our entire family. All we had to do is take a trip over to this cause, and hang out for awhile answer some questions talk to some people watching videos we did it we had to like. Sit for a long time with somebody, land. Are they split us up intergroup and ass. You, like husband and wife groups, and, like my wife and I just had to calmly, say no, we really don't We can afford a right now all, but what, if you know, we could give you this platinum packaging and I'm sorry we kill all but well the double platinum. I think you can really afford in its as for a future and he went on and on and on and until we finally got to leave with our visa chequered. Oh wow, did you ultimately, I get it. We got dinner, but it was

two hours out of our day and if you calculate the money for all of you go away two seconds, are you sure we should have done this guy's a year? We do this autumn, said now: Millbay loved it because they of some members of my family do that kind of thing. A lot o k. I've never heard this story kudos to you for resisting the psychological pressure here hide right. Plumbing Howard, apply pressure if there's no money in my accounts that victory, that internet mean where the guy's leaning in touching his temple, Missus Poyser figure a zoo. It's true! they can happen is that maybe you are invited to a seminar for an email and yeah here, these very theatre,

Oh very motivational speeches right and it's difficult to leave. It serve like standing up in the middle of church if you're religious, yeah and walking up the social pressure alone yeah, it's not a good luck ripe and this becomes doubly powerful at the very least when you are there with a Remember Yahoo is already active in this organization. You don't any who wants to disappoint outlined Linda were Uncle Gregg right yeah, I do you know your mother in law, where there I get a follow up, this soup. Another thing we find is that

this all means in the case of multilevel marketing or pyramid schemes. That initial recruits are essentially paying an organization for the opportunity to work for them in this little else. Let's sit in that for a second or care about it. Everyone listening imagine your last job interview see went to the job interview near. Already submitted your resume or something online. The management of the company sits down with you and they say you're qualified, as matter fact you're, not only qualified. You are superb. You were the perfect person for this. Position and four seven hundred dollars. You can start today and Euro everybody's initial assumption would be oh holy smokes you're, giving me seven hundred dollars to start today, but no, no, no! No! No! No! No! No! You are paying this organization some amount of money, the

in any other place or time. More organization or job opportunity. That would be just ludicrous thou. Be absolutely not I'm out of here right. And a multi level. Marketing strategy becomes now pyramid scheme when the bulk of the actual profit you make comes not from selling your jelly beings. The bulk of it comes from converting other people in your social network to work for you with the same carrot extending for them that they have to actively recruit other people. This business model has several deeply disturbing aspects: infer there's that inherent beaten switch, you're, not selling and herbal supplement, and those are very common in the world, multilevel marketing. You are selling your friend the idea of them selling their friends on selling? Yet more friends, were selling a boy

line and arguably exploitative type of communicable eighty allow right. So we should pause to man and talk about herbal supplements. Oh really, yeah we're just for a little bit now. I know I know this is controversial territory in many cases and again we want to paint with a broad brush. We don't want a paint with the wrong broad brush which will get to look at, but oh, it's it's a common type or genre of product in the world of multilevel marketing and herbal supplement could mean anything from vitamin, be twelve to a proprietary mix of vitamins to things that are supposed to help certain medical conditions. These are not held these claims. Herbal supplement claims are not held to the same level of rigour and research.

That out now drugs are held to buy the FDA, absolutely at least in theory, the FDA supposed to do that. We we have an episode about the opium epidemic coming up got near by us within herbal supplement, the legal restrictions on what you can and cannot claim about any given thing, any pillar, juicer paste. What have you? Those legal restrictions are much looser and you can. You can have people come up and say all sorts of anecdotes all live long day about how a change their life, but what they probably won't have with their much

less likely to have is a peer reviewed reproducible study proving what they said is true. Absolutely. I recently watch one where a person said this specific herbal supplement helped her to become pregnant when all these other ways did not, she kept trying to bring about this herbal supplement healthier. Yet there, this one person was recovering from a cancer because of this herbal supplement move and that's when you get into that territorially how dangerous

this will allow this kind of thing to occur, but you know the rules are the rules and in a way their following them. Yet, as the letter of the law, they ve got the Spirit right up, often the hidden fees and the required by means of these various products put already financially disadvantaged people into some. In some cases, life ruining debt, not to mention the emotional trauma, might experience of discovering that your friend either purposely deceived you or has misled both of you. You know yeah, that's a painful thing here here and one of the biggest problems we see here with all these people trying to recruit everyone else to get into this thing.

Whether they get hurt in it or not. Is that you run up on a math problem. Yes, that is true, and you don't need a calculator for. Let's do the math math comes to his courtesy of a fellow named Robert Fitzpatrick, a former business consultant, and now a prominent opponent of pyramid schemes and multilevel marketing strategies. Would she pretty much equates he says the same thing in its a false dichotomy and he explains the unsustainable math in pretty simple terms. We have a quote from it. The math is a distortion of manipulation of what they call exponential expansion

Exponential expansion is two times two times two times to an almost all of these schemes tell you that you can make money by just recruiting three or four or five. Let let's say five, then you let the five do their five, and that gives you twenty five. Do you go? Does this is out decide the quote right now: do we get our twenty five people already right? Let's get back into the quote their right. There is exponential expansion that's the trick of the whole thing. What they dont show. You is that you can only do that. Thirteen cycles and and then everybody says you would exceed the population of the earth. Soothe thirteen iterations of this sort of growth will eventually reach. Your point saturation such that there are no living people who are not part of this scheme, yes

and most of them will be on the most bottom level right right still required. By depending on the specific case, still required to purchase a product or make some sort of initial investment. But at that point they literally have no one to sell any of it took, as everyone has a garage full of whatever it Yes, yes in the most fundamental terms, this means that the business model, as it is explained to new recruits, is not meant to work. It literally cannot, if everything goes well and every single member of this thing, or even, if you know what honestly, even if sixty percent of the people who are, we were entering this sort of the sort of business even and even of sixty percent of them succeed, then aid still won't work over the long term. Additionally, there are several other important points that new recruits are not told. First, is that according to Fitzpatrick

looking around the order of ninety nine percent. At least more than ninety percent of this investors or distributors, don't turn a profit full stop at all. Just won't swollen, additionally there's no recognize ation that something go wrong, that the market will saturate that it will not forever grow unbound. That's kind of the problem we have with our economy in general is in arguably depending on economic model we're talking just exponential casting earth. Nothing will ever stop. The factories must expand your Let's start a planet Hollywood on Mars? Who came the I don't know I haven't. They're gonna need one eventual they're gonna every every planet will need a planet. Hollywood eventually and it'll, be all like Mars, based celebrities, Ray and think

The food patent law here we gotta get Jonathan, I'm just a Robinson through puns that, Jonathan Strickland, the host of tat stuff in several other fascinating shows. He is also as an act of charity, volunteer to be our complaint department. If ever you feel that there is something that needs to be corrected on the show or if you have a complaint, please do not hesitate right to Jonathan Tut Strickland. How stuff that club button Euro. Joking aside, this shows us this shows us a little something about the potential size of the problem, but what's the actual size well It's big and we're gonna get into it. After a word from our completely not multi level marketing sponsor, Have you ever wondered? How did the smartest marketers cut through the noise I'm Bob

Madam chairman, and see if I hard medium and welcome the mad, the magic stories from the frontiers of marketing, we went from Fourchan, thirteen or fourteen seventy two years. You have no idea how readily empowering was one of the best decisions I ever made. Subscribed math magic on apple pie. Gaspe, I her radio up or wherever you get your bike guest. You're an eye heart. We know that if you dont know your numbers, you don't know your business. In fact, that's the problem that net sweet by Oracle has set out to solve it's time to quit, flying blind and unlike growth for your business with nets, wheat schedule, you're free demo right now and receive your free guide, seven strategies to grow your profits, go to net sweet dot com, slash math, That's not sweet dot com, slash math, today's horoscope brought it by Geico Germany.

You may find yourself struggling with alertness today, that's because you stayed up last night celebrating the hundreds of dollars a year, you could say by switching to Geico yours go will continue well into the afternoon during Philip Status Meeting, in which you say no Philip, I wasn't snoring. I have severe seasonal allergies. Your presentation was riveting well Gemini Geico, fifteen minutes could save you, fifteen percent or more Why you? I can't help but notice that you painted with us Skippy brush below this is the only brush I had. We gotta do the fence and then the wall and just have so much to do. Don't waste time like an omen. Macaroon rotting in this on my friend. What you need is a better brush, a bigger brush, our broad brush, a broader brush, really would get this done faster and I could just paint the whole thing in one. Go may be why simply by broad brush is when you can sell

Why simply sell them when you can have your friends, neighbours, loved ones and naive strangers on the streets sell the broadest brushes for you, this sounds like a plan. What do I need why you ve already done the most important part, which is open your eyes to a new world of economic opportunity. Your next steps are relatively small, easily handled, and we can take care of them today. All will need is a slight seed money investment and, of course, you can sell what you dont have so, with a minimum purchase of sixty eight broad brushes. You will be set to go my friend, ok, I guess you know I've been meaning to sell my home, so I could do that. I am not sure whether I put the broad brushes. They probably need a lot of space, don't they. All right. Well, I guess let me go heading so my house and then I'll get back to you. I guess no! No! Now listen! This is a tremendous chats to change the course of your life and the life of all your loved ones. For ever all you need to do is

imagine yourself, ten years from now, would you rather be living in a sumptuous, opulent mansion, or will you be a wash in mounting final notice bills? in this dump, lamenting the chance you could have taken to save your own life. I guess I'll. Take the mansion. This message for broad brushes international has been brought You buy illumination global, unlimited and we're back what that guy last add felt a little bit. I don't wanna go out on a limb here that last ad a little bit like a multi level, marketing thing it was kind of pushy. I noticed that in the end, the one guy really seem to want the other guy to do whatever due to sell those things, it's really

You know it's eagerly in line with what we are talking about here. Sometimes those strange coincidence, as happened as I still have issues with the size of the brushes The way they were to describe I dont understand feeling that's more industrial strength, brush situation, I'm not sure I did. Of course she ate how d the other guy in the ad did ask how he would possibly wielders, but you know, Let us know if you have experienced with broad brush his or, of course our returning sponsor illumination, global and limited budgets, less know how those, how does shake out: look we're not gonna knock a brush a broad brush

works, Riah, absolutely speaking of broad and expansive things. What's the size of the problem when we're talking about multilevel marketing. Well, let's go back to Mr Fitzpatrick. He has a book called false prophets, seeking financial and spiritual deliverance in multi level, marketing and pyramid schemes. In this book he speculates that D, just the size, the full scope of these various companies- make up this industry of multi level. Marketing is currently unknown, awhile there there were. Essentially there are so many functioning right now that it may be impossible to know and those entities certainly wooden one.

You to know the full nature of their financial transactions or their techniques. So, according to Fitzpatrick, this goes back into just the sheer amount of money that is involved. So, in this quotation he says: made off Bernie made up Condi relatively small number of people with investment money, multi level, marketing, he argues is using a different system. Instead of taking a million dollars from ten people you take. Ten dollar there's from a million people. That is the way the system works. I'm just use that as an analogy, but the numbers add up to staggering amounts year upon year upon year, and this leads Fitzpatrick and other experts to believe the amount of money,

solved in this industry overall ranks in billions with a b wow and am here's the thing there are it's not just the problem of setting up something like this that ultimately benefits, the person that started looking at it at in all of these, there is some group or a person at the very top that gets all of the downright every single person sends money up to that one person right the found Ray re write an end in some cases there are allegations of these people taking advice. Just fully unknowingly, taking advantage of everyone working for them sooner. Making an honest mistake night, not getting the Ec hunting wrong, were acting out of negligence, correct,

yeah I'm. Fortunately there are numerous multiple cases in which founders or members of these types of companies have been found guilty of fraud of conspiracy to commit various financial crimes and more of, for instance, there was a guy named Paul Burke's here in the U S who was convicted of conspiracy fraud during his time heading up, a company called Zeke rewards and, in the course of his trial, It was characterized as one of the largest ponzi schemes in. U S, history, bilking more than one million investors across the world out of a hundred million dollars lead there is in jail, and he got off relatively easy because going into trial is penalty, could have been as much as sick is in jail and he got off relatively easy because going in

The trial is penalty, could have been as much as sixty five years in jail whilst an older man, so fifteen years even may be a death sentence, but what they did a centrally was old school ponzi scheme stuff. They made extravagant promises, they got. People too. Invest money with the pit with the assumption that that money would later be paid off as these as these schemes, this penny auction site began to deliver the male deliver. The goods, for, while, for the earlier investors, it seemed like this was happening because what they were doing as they were taking? The money that later investors put in and using that to pay off their old, Invest Oh, why just kept growing passing the buck passing the buck and then eventually a cratered. Under its own numerical success, not financial, but just the sheer amount to people who bought in thing so that was Zeke rewards. Zeke rewards are right. I need

that's. The whole thing comes here to go down that rapid whole. Later thanks bent. Thank you. So what? What next way? What's another example o another huge issue that some of these founders of common two eyes tax evasion and that specifically, when these can multi level marketing when he's expand into various countries, so like you're, not just starting out in the? U S or wherever else Asia, maybe Australia, now you're in all of these countries in all these people are paying money to you, but you're in one location, and now you ve got a whole lot of taxes. You gonna pay and these this one cup Thomas email or an is for a wife Leslie deem or they founded a company in what spring will, I believe it was called in new ways are needed.

Is any w a Y S and they didn't pay personal income tax to the tune of about three point two million dollars and its its money that they owed for their companies for this new age company in several in several countries, Malaysia, Australia and in the United States- I mean that's that isn't necessarily up a big problem, specifically for multi level. Marketing come these are not paying taxes that just something that this couple decided to do right. That is not a necessarily multilevel marketing, only crime yes- and we can provide more examples- you very well fellow conspiracy, realist may have some examples of your own that that you remember and day simple, cursory,

online will turn up dozens and dozens and dozens of things like this. But let's let you don't wait. We should also mention that the inner workings of these organizations can also get very weird returned a little bit about the psychological manipulation involved in making people. People feel obligated to do something which is not restricted to time shares or M way or anything like that. A lot of advertising is built on the idea that it is possible to make people feel obligated to do something that we have to do it right. Not your life will be better. Your life depends on. It depends on this yet, and we did a video that you and I were thinking about affair. As we were working on this episode. We did a video that had some eerie parallels and star old Youtube video about the techniques that cults use

yeah so there's isolation, their long speeches. We are forced to listen to there's a lot of jargon right. A specific type of lexicon terminology arises such that only you can talk about this with other people, that I know what you're talking about worlds issues, gobbled coming out of your mouth. You can find this, for instance, in the ranks or the names that are given to levels right. There may be There may be a hierarchy of sales or position in the pyramid that is described by any number of imaginative phrases, yes, specifically, I think we're we're both thinking of a company called young devotee. Yes, that has levels based

on precious stones pretty also, but some of the old ones or even more abstract and strange than that in you, you just coming gotta, look through them There is one in that John Oliver episode that we played where this guy is discussing is for its specifics about how you get paid for people on your down line and the things the requirements you have to meet on your up line in just the I've. Just it made my brain want to exploit yeah it's something along the well, maybe saying along the lines of portrays here, but it's something to eat of a vertical series of dots labelled a to g. Going down and then the guy's attempting to or appears to be attempting to helpfully explain how one actually gets cash in your pockets or in your wallet or your purse.

The empty manage jarring, your backyard by the body you know like wherever you store money. What he does is the following says: ok, you're a so. Let's say that be buys four thousand points it forty two percent, yet value point levels that goes that would go up to. I count as your qualify commission by its under its an encumbered line, as we have as you need one in unencumbered point alleys, voice rang, and this this me again to be completely fair. This may be that specific organisations best good faith attempt to simplify the distribution process. It sure does not sound like it. It sounds

Cain and that's just one example we're in one of the ways we said one of the effects of having something like that is that you have a more insular group rights right there outsiders and insiders, and just like some, some colts loans with sensitive were, but just like some called europe- you may also be taught that you- heavy mission beyond a financial goal. You have a mission to free people that you care about or to save them with the supplement they need this. So not only are you helping yourself out financially, you are helping these other people out medically you're, helping MA by providing them opportunity because you care about them and if they will join up

there's something wrong with them. What gives like gives right so we're being a little dramatic, but then there is a lot of truth in in those statements. Here are some examples of companies currently being accused of functioning as pyramid schemes am way, probably all heard, but Emily was big in what the eighties oh yeah, and my only encounter with it, was hearing it reference in comedy and for a long time has come for a long time as a kid, I think I confused. Wayne Am Track, a cab wondering why are people making fun of Amtrak four things I don't understand, is Amtrak so broke that the people have to also sell. Like dish detergents

It's been around for so long that I honestly don't even know what an way cells today it's like bath, embody stuff beauty products, oh and nutrition, her. So this is like activated water. This is a shipping. Essentially it's like an Amazon, but it's an m alone. This is so Well now again, neither of us, Paul and no also- and none of us have actively participated in the stuff. So it is quite possible that there's something to it, even though that we have missed, but these are the facts. These are the legal cases we found and these companies are, for their part, They say that they are very transparent, but the claims are making and they are pretty pretty responsive now, if mass media reaches item and stuff, but that doesn't mean problems,

incur next to an way. Another really popular- were well known. Company employing the strategy would be early life. Yes, this is a relief. The supplements right, like herbal life, almost within an urban life in twenty seventeen, they were forced by the F tc to pay nearly three hundred and fifty thousand people back some amount of money. In the final settlement the became too was herbal. I've had to pay two hundred million dollars and then not just pay that fine, which is generally what happens with a company your hands laughed. You pay a fine, it becomes a cost of business. Well, in this case, they had to

fundamentally this is a quote, fundamentally restructure its business right. That's a quote from the F to see itself as specifically from Jessica Rich who, at the time as a director, the agency's Bureau of Consumer Protection, and that sounds like a good thing now when so the company continues, the company for their own part said that they had not done anything wrong and that they didn't need to make any substantial business change, and there were also some people who said that this company was being unfairly targeted. Yes, from from some other entity or individual who had an axe to grind, see or hear from. Both sides will hear the government side Angelo here, the company side and those though sides just argon it agree. Now, it's really it's up to you to decide what what you think is the the

street to the genuine there's, also Avon, that's one of the more famous ones. Rain, there's also young jeopardy. Yes, young jeopardy, one of the companies that I was going to say, petals, they sorry, but right they sell products. There will help people feel and look younger lira there. Another big theme that occurs in a lot of these, and in each of these cases the organizations mentioned will typically prefer a different description. They all want to just be called a melons. They certainly going to be called pyramid schemes who prefer a term like direct sales. Yeah there's something similar to what you

said at the top of the show, and you know even has been around long enough for the idea of the Avon Lady Cool, unquote to be a cultural troop in a year, and that means that on some level, people have succeeded working with her for EVA same thing with tupperware. So we can say that in The case this has been terrible for people, yet it's not all bad and you can be really good at it. If you're an amazing sales person, then maybe this is, You know a way for you to make some money. I guess it just all depends when you get in at the pyramid. Write I end despite the massive controversies and the various convictions for conspiracy, literally friggin spirit. These companies, many of them thrive in the modern day for people who are opponents of these practices or techniques. The biggest question is this: why is this still legal? How

according to Fitzpatrick. We have no law in the: U S explicitly defining a pyramid scheme or explicitly defining more Ty level marketing they didn't as of twenty thirteen, but there is. There is one thing that might help us out, and it is an article from step toward according to break Dunning over at sceptical. I always love reading what he has to say about these topics. According to him, he says that network marketing plans, which is another euphemism, were synonym for this. They differ from illegal pyramid schemes in

An important way commissions can only legally be paid on sales of a physical product if commissions are offered on recruitment of new distributors than its defined as an illegal pyramid scheme. But the out now illegal plans are pre were rare according to Dunning. Instead, most companies are smart enough to stay just on the right the law while clearly on the edge living on the edge of the law, every year and he's got some really interesting statistics.

At the stuff to its its illuminating. It's not particularly inspiring according to the rather poultry financial records that have been released. News weak, for instance, found that fewer than one per cent of distributors for out they called moan of e ever qualify for any commission at all and less than one and one thousand recovered the cost of their required monthly purchases a wish, but that it is not a one time purchase yeah you gotta, keep by yet a key buying you gotta, keep selling. That's the whole point and again, like I said, if you're a great sales person right and somehow yours unloading, Mona. We then you or that one percent that one in one thousand and sue the F C is still working to create policy or business guidance concerning these ends, as as we record, and You can find their various fact sheets if it is a great thing

elbow on tips in trick. Well, I don't want to see tricks tips in advice, ok for her email aims and if your considering what we do, we do ask you to read that. In conclusion, for us at least, if something sounds too good to be true. Well, there's a reason we call them cliches up and the reason you heard that phrase so many times is because if something sounds too good to be true, there is usually something hidden behind the curtain. And this isn t to say that these amendments have not ever worked for. Anyone is just in most cases the majority people much more money than they make and they lose much. More than they were led to believe was possible. You have, but they made so many friends in a whole new family, while they are doing it boy for free

even though in and the people who make the cat the most cash overwhelmingly are going to be the same people who founded the company. So please please, please be extreme. Careful when you are approached by Anna Limbs and when you hear a pitch from your friends, family or innocent strangers. Remember, there's probably something that company doesn't want you to know and probably something that they don't want. The person whose talking to you to know either or the people you're talking to people targets or the people that you convince. The talk to other people on, like two mirrors facing each other, if you're, if you are facing one of those mirrors- and you find yourself in that position- all we can say is we hope you get out if you can, if it's a problem, if you're in some kind of debt, to this end it becomes a cycle. There are places you can go online to start getting some help and

hopefully, maybe you can though the way of the urban life lawsuit and get your money back at some point, just knowing that at that lawsuit occurred in release was finalized in twenty seventeen. That gives, I think you should give everyone hope, and if you have an example of positive experience that you have had with one of these companies where these types of entities, we would like to hear that too. We want to see where we want to see proof bull positive stuff. Absolutely in the meantime, we are going to head out. It looks like we ve, been game blown with emails from this broad brush see, act now, folks, I dont really here coming in already. We just put this episode out right. Elimination, global, unlimited works in mysterious ways. I got just like the rules of cricket

yup, that's terrible! I should just try to learn how cricket works yet of lamenting it. If you have you not cricket words, you can find us on Facebook and twitter. We're we're conspiracy, snuff Instagram or conspiracy, stuff, show you can call or number right now stop what you're doing pull over call. One. Eight three three STD w whitey K tell us about anything. We want to hear it. I just want to hear voice and our compatriots I will be returning he's off on an adventure, a lot of us where many different hats and disguises were kind of like the p when that show the Americans, except we don't work for the KGB, no work for illumination global, unlimited, so if you want to do any of those things to her own await, we all like what are you. Americans didn't work for the KGB, necessarily the USSR

today, though we, but did they know? No, let us now let us now. We want to hear north. Doubts and let us know if you are interested in investing our new amazing opportunity to sell broad, brushes and sell people on selling broad. Russia's. You can write to us directly. We are Conspiracy at how stuff works, dot com.

Guy CO has the insurance industry leading up that lets. You manage your policy anytime anywhere, which means that guy is always. Therefore you, if only everyone was always. Therefore you like animal control when you're cornered in your garage by an angry possum Megan you they said you would be here about an hour ago and am I think, the possible starting to get angry? Listen, I thought if I fed it, it will go away, but now it is reaping holes in the dry while in making some sort of last, just call me back Geico, always therefore, you with savings and the industry leading mobile app you some, good. You shall from the cynical women podcast network and I heart radio each day with Aren't you bringing the Good NEWS is so line in the glass half full, because there is good happening the world everywhere every day. We just need to look for and share You're, something good is a short daily show that offers positive stories, helpful suggestions and shared experiences to inform and inspire you every day,

listen to hear something good on the eye: heart radio, apple, podcast, You listen to your favorite chose subscribe now,.