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May I radio, app apple podcast or wherever you listen near pod casts from you at those two psychic powers and government conspiracies history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff. They don't want you to know a low is welcome back to the show I'm no standing in for matters that line, because, whenever mats not here, then amount, then I always look at each other for a few minutes and realized it quite sure how to start the show, however, never fear met, is off on a very special secret project that we cannot wait to tell you about. We will have to tell you sometimes soon's look forward to that new spoilers. In the meantime, they call me Ben. We are joined with our super producer. Paul D,

personal digital assistant, dad PDA. But most importantly, you are you, you are here, and that makes this stuff. They don't want you to know we're we're pretty excited about today's episode, wouldn't PDA stand for when it was like a palm pilot was a personal digital. Yes, I believe Was it a case of those public display of effectual, there's that, with today's to collect blackberries PDA S back before the advent of the Iphone? In the more tablet like? Vice personal digital assistance has to be as not funny that that's kind of become a new thing, because today we are talking about the kinds of personal digital assistance that you can talk to and can potentially talk yes. So let's go get some of the contacts. It's it's a very common troop in science fiction robots. Personated human beings with increasing levels of fidelity and we see it in.

Culture. All the time in some stories like in every episode of the terminator every King related to the terminator franchise machine consciousness, tries to mimic humanity exe. Elusively as a means of waging war places or other serious, such as the matrix. For intelligence, or I attempts to surround us meet bags within impersonation of reality, complete, individual machine minds, they can pass for humans. Cases, humans work together to build technique policies that can impersonate other human beings in any number awake them, sometimes for sexy times reasons church, sometimes you just companionship and we ve seen that go awry. I mean a terminator. I think the whole point of that serious was that humans created I now or whatever for their own, deserve their own purposes and then Skynet said what up humans and with your new our own thing or like in West World, and this goes for

it like a sudden any number of ways from increasingly lifelike androids two entities. Exist purely in the digital sphere, able to help genuine seeming conversations and functioning at or above what we, We consider the average level of human intelligence. As three has proven science fiction is often prescient, and it's not. Common for authors to spin fantasy tales only for those tails to move years. Dec later from the realm of science fiction to the world of science fact and the quest for this humanly, technology, real life, is no different. During the actually saw Youtube Video, a bunch eclipse of the times that science fiction films have predicted technology that totally thing right now, like a star trek, for example, there oh communicators, their basically iphones animal seen in total recall where their walking through

for body scanners at the airport, me see, like their skeletons, see the weapons signing such as pretty much what we do now, They are poor, Vienna, put our hands over our heads and stand in those full body scanners where we, hopefully they destroy little cartoon of us with the naughty bits s scrubbed out, but in theory they can see everything so too is a. I and the kinds of things are talking about today, yeah the concept of what we call artificial intelligence long time the sinners. You may recall, as we use phrase. You may recall that as some four the guests of ours have objected to the term artificial intelligence with a very good question. What makes it artificial? What makes it if we're talking about consciousness what makes it any less of a consciousness than our own right and we think that's a good. We think that's a very good and valid point. We tend to I agree with it, but for the sake of brevity, we're just gonna go with a I as a non pejorative thing. It's easier to see it. That way, the cons

Today I have surprising the old routes in our culture, especially if we consider those ancient tat was of non human entities. Impersonating human beings, the the Harry stories of Changeling switched out a birth or are gods Jeanne shape to breed with animals or people or shaped shifts. The twentieth century. The concept of this artificial, inorganic thinking life form Popularize justly The point me with science fiction through culture and fix it. I get leave you think. One of the earliest artificial intelligences that blew up in the way world. It's the tin me in the wizard of OZ. Yet ever thought of him like that, but I guess it's true. It's a good stand in, for there is even the heart that he gets. The spoiler alert for the wizard of OZ sure is like clockwork heart me now. It's like something to add to his machinations is not actually a physical harm, so he's absolutely meant to be like an automaton witches

kind of the earliest form of robotics that go back to ancient times. Even we have these incredibly intricate creations, move through a series of gears and police and what have you, but on a surly imbued with any kind of like the ability to make choices, but there are some they can even like play games in his words like I'm, a writer the mechanical Turk s rights would at year end they were lauded for their ability to appear to do human, ask thing rice, but people general He did not think they had a soul for three minutes and a kind of goes You were, we had some folks say, had take issue with the term artificial intelligence. We also had some folks right and taking issue with the term. The idea of machine learning does It is a man of were still at a place where we have to pay grand machines to do what we want. We certainly have no have yet to fully experience

like idea, singularity where the machine takes what we ve imbued with and develops its ability to go outside of that are like make decisions outside of it. There's that we represent very rarely. Have we seen that and we do see it they typically shut down its yeah meadow cognition right, so we think it thinking, rather so by the nineteen fifties, scientist mathematicians and philosophers- we're familiar with this concept of Colin Powell, artificial intelligence and our species began to Cognitive Lee migrate from this world. A fantasy toward a world increasingly grounded in fact, and we can we hit some of the high points of artificial intelligence here in nineteen. Fifty, the famous breaker Alan Turing made one of the most significant early steps in real life ay I, when he and some of his colleagues created where we now commonly called the turing test is named after him. Of course, he wrote. This paper

old computing machinery and intelligence that laid the groundwork both for the means of constructing a sigh and for the ways in which we can measure the intelligence of that I or our success, building at which might kind to be two different things and sadly whelp, amazingly and sadly, this lineup was ahead of the curve. Touring could not get right. Work building these human, like mines or, more specifically, he couldn't to work building minds. They could fool humans into thinking. They were also human minds because the technology the time had hard It's like to the point you make nor about the mechanical Turk, open. One nineteen, forty, nine or so computers couldn't really store commands, say commands or decisions here they could only execute them, and this meant that the computers we could build at that time.

Unable to satisfy a key prerequisite of intelligence. They couldn't Remember past events pay information and therefore they could not use, this memory to inform, present commands or decisions, and in this way computers began at that Tabula Roscoe State, a blank slate state that so many mystic spiritualist and philosophers spend their lives attempting to attain. I think that's fast, mating- computers like people in practice, hard core meditation existed mentally only in the yeah, we'll get back to that concept and a little bit in terms of some of the newer computers and how they are able to quote him, quote figure things out and some better than others. But let us go back to the fifth. For a second, when computers were insanely expensive. Any MRS no see they ran you, you at least one he couldn't even own, and I wasn't a thing for about. You ok, a month which I believe been

in today's standards. That would be about two million dollars for one month of computer use yeah two thousand eighteen dollars a lotta Netflix subscriptions re. My friend and only, of course, the most prestigious universities in huge technology corporations could even you now afford the cost of entry, so for chairing and his ilk jack be able to succeed in building something resembling anywhere closer visual intelligence. They would have to be part. Some network of high profile, very feed, influential fun, as of research, that would that they would be able to receive just a an absolute boat load of money from to get this kind of work done

imagine you know that's a hard sell. It seems really interesting now, but that now we know tat the here. But back then, it was literally walk up the people and say hey we're good at math, and do you remember the tin man from wizard of OZ? We sort I want to make that. Can we have all of the money? So that's that's tough, but the soldier dawn in nineteen. Fifty five another groundbreaking event occurred. There is the premier of approval called the logic theorists. It was the mimic, the problem solving skills of a human being, and it was funded by whoever favoured shady buggy men, the rest, Jane Development Corporation, known today is ran to Rand Corporation, sounds like something out of a I find movie in and of itself and it still around doing pretty interesting and secretive work doubly they that of having a good relationship with the Eu S. Eliot government, bigtime, apps, you're, absolutely right,

this logic. Theorist is considered by many people to be the first technically. The fur artificial intelligence programme, and there was a big conference in May. Seen fifty six hosted by John Mccartin, in a guy named Morven, Minsk IE and in this conference they presented the law, theorist as a proof of concept. The conference is called the Dartmouth I'm research project on artificial intelligence, and you know why. Thought of you with this. They knew how we both love, acronym, filling in this when the day would be silent, sums gonna, call it sir pie. That's great! That's better is the deep blue it you know you can. Why do a d sound These are the of life, so the conference itself fell short the original, very ambitious aims of the organizers they wanted to bring together the world's best and brightest subject matter. Experts and, by God, make an artificial might yet still weak.

We can write right. They set it to seven days, that's what he said. We could do it for like that. But the problem lies pretty much. Everybody disagreed on how exactly you would make a human like intelligence, and at this point there still thinking in terms of artificial intelligence. Being like humans, which is a huge assumption. But the unanimously agreed for the very first time on a single crucial point that it was possible to make a set the stage for the next two decades of research so from ninety fifty seven to nineteen. Seventy four artificial intelligence. Interest in our research and it really flourish computers. They could stick. Now they were improving by leaps and bounds. It could store more information, which is crucial and, of course, they became faster and cheaper and more accessible.

Machine learning algorithms also began to improve people got better, knowing which Agora them to use for their particular purposes, which was also important because it was You know that there were sort of an established language. Of algorithms that people could pick and choose from to suit their particular problems, early successes The general problem, Solver Ben, come into a bit more about the general problem, solver, it does what it says on the tin. He should give it a variety of problem this guy and, generally speaking, it would attempt to solve the nine a silicon do the most creative solution by yet again, that's that's like an early days thing. So at the time it was very impressive but, of course is just the beginning, and I you know we you had another example, I think of application in that time. Yet this is when Alexa was first invented. Yes, yes, like all spoken language interpreter which a lot

spoken language interpreter, which I dunno. I wonder if Elect says it is a nod to Eliza. What do you think, then? That would be pretty cool. Only a couple: letters Ass: it was working language interpreter that help convinced that government to really okay. This is something they were into, and this is really important for our story today. I it convinced the government specifically DARPA here in the United States to start funding. Artificial intelligence. Dark As you know few or a long time. Listen. This show DARPA is the. Resident mad Science Department of the United States government and it stands for thence advanced research projects agency there, the You do all the x files level or fringe level stuff you hear about in the news or often and that's gonna, be there.

In front of it, and then there is also stuff like mats, favorite public private partnership. Skunk works is too good name I mean if you can make it for nothing other than they do all the secret AIR force projects, and you now spy planes and all kinds of stuff. It's kind of technology think about that is probably you ahead of anything we ve seen out there in the world today has staked for you. Efforts in this made people very gas, very optimistic, because it's another very human thing that we haven't quite learned: how to program optimism that in Teen. Seventy Marvin Minsky that guy who co hosted this conference. He told life magazine from three to eight years. We will have a machine with the general intelligence of an average human being He was wrong, but your point about suppressed, acknowledging all who is wrong so far as we know it centres

to not get too far ahead of ourselves, but with everything that's going on with big public facing come he's like Google and Amazon and Apple, and you start to get a sense, maybe the secret government stuff isn't quite as far ahead as it once was right. That is my opinion at a now. Will I think it's it's It is something we want to hear from you about gentlemen, because its proven that In terms of physical hardware, materiel of Warden, beings in aviation and stop. It is proven that the? U S in most other governments, want to keep that stuff under wraps absolute. I guess, what I'm saying is when you, when you're looking at a company, that's trying to sell you something and you see how far they advance with each other date every year right, you kind of get a sense that maybe this is about where there actually at that's that's the point so,

the aviation sector and the weapons of war stuff. To contrast it here, because what what Seeing also is that the government of the world. This is true. The governments in the world usually can't pay the best and brightest as much as the private entities getting so there grabbing some of the best workers unless those people are severely ideological and then You're making most of the progress which they would later cell to a government, think. Maybe there is a little more transparency, I think so, which is a potential interesting Lee positive thing. The level of let's get her again, but keep was keep human right along. So the quest for human life artificial intelligence soldier dawn, but it still had tremendous obstacles. Although computers could now store information, they couldn't store enough of it and they could not process it at a fast enough pay. So funding dwindled,

till the eighties and that's when a I Sperience, a renaissance which will get to after a word from our spot

world yours the ball park as the new cars with a fresh perspective, culture bail, you not just sit in a building in one city. Impressed us talk about this there. All eighty every owner is seventy own away out creep in all social media. Ok, she carries out a little quality or whatever they may grab some outside any measure does I'll see to the millionth right. Algerians explained sitting handrail some a ray of light like yeah yeah, yeah Lorelei, my man is in jail and I started the like someone else. I know it's not right, but I really can't take when I feel what should I do even coupled with your very obviously gave. Worrisome makes a huge out on our brand new back and apply itself of animal now on the radio have on natural gas or whatever you get your plaid cast

it seems like it should be easy, but it's not just getting out of bed and getting your day started, trying to accomplish everything you need to do in your day that to do list as a lot easier when you're getting news stories and music to lift your mood and preparing for the day ahead, get connected to the things that make you laugh and make you think or make you want to reach out and share with a friend every morning with us, it's Elvis Joanne in the morning show listen to us on cue, one or two or anywhere in the world on the Iheart Radio, APP. In eighteen eighty, these new tools and methods gave in the field of HIV Aids that Renaissance, that that Ben mention that kick in the digital pants and a guy named John Hartfield and another fella named David Romo hard popularized, this concept of deep learning, which is a technique that allow computers

you learn using experiences using pang at Jim to surroundings, for example. The idea of the fact that our phones or serving us adds because we're talking about stuff in stating that information in and using it to do Something and learning are our habit. Right- and this is a really important part of things like these personal digital assistance that we talked about at the top of the show and the side of the brain here too, or I guess in parallel approach a guy. Edward Fagin Bomb introduced experts systems that mimicked decision making process of a human experts. What happens is the programme will ask an expert the field like it would ask super producer Paul Richard Feynman question about production or physics, and then

would see. How do you respond in this given situation and it could risk and it would take this for every situation. It could soak up and then not experts could later receive advice from that programme about that information. It sounds basic it, sounds like how a search engine can know with increasingly accurate levels of fidelity. What do you mean to ask when you ask a question? Remember when Google used to be super passiveaggressive and say Jus Moon went out. Fills it in four years ago instantly and the reason for that is that it has access to every entry, that anyone is ever put into Google, and so it combines all that information and makes the best guess as to what it thinks you're, probably searching for based on everyone else that has started searching for that kind of thing has also done, which is that same deep learning stuff that is coming into play, which makes me make tax so funny it can be. I guess it depends on this

lot your on- and we know that a little bit eureka. Sometimes it can be disrelish bone Haven't you figure this out yet SIRI boiler alert, no as but this was all really put to the test in the nineties in two thousand, when we really hit some big landmark moment, Some high water mark moments in artificial intelligence, like with the with Gary Kasparov, who I know that you are fascinated with, although he is, I problematic figure at time, yeah yeah Rigi it. I semitism aside your chest. Grandmasters. The human At least right are immensely even fractals compelling because there's always some other layer to their personality, and you have to wonder about the ported correlation between mental instability and high thresholds of help ensure because well that's it way for another Danish. I you know what does it make it? A little clip

for us, but we can do it so yeah you're, seeing he was defeated by deep Blue built by IBM a computer just built to play chess. This was John Henry moment for the human race and then a scientist name, Cynthia Brace L created Kismet a programme Recognising and displaying emotion now for all our technical futurists flaws First in the crowd, does Kismet. Recognising and displaying emotion automatically mean that Kismet experiences, emotion, stew! for another day, but these purse versus, programme. One on one matches didn't stop with the of chess there was also jeopardy right and Then there was one other one that had tremendous implications for the world of programming yeah now Much more recently with Google's alpha go: let's go

then the ancient chinese strategy game of go and it successfully defeated a go champion, Kai G and go, as is in a tourist Lee, complex game, very difficult to predict and and always have to be many many move ahead. Opponents, so that's pretty cool. That's almost a step. Further, wouldn't you say, bandit, go would be taken more challenging for a computer to beat a an opponent, then chess, even my guess, is like an adversarial, serious leap forward. Would absolutely agree and a lot of people were even more sceptical watching that game, people understood go? We can also go don't say it Paul. I dont know if you are familiar with this, but are you? Are you again? enthusiasts do play this game? No, not really! I've never played. I remember it from the movie pie, remember

the one one of their NEO Nazis, freshly, which people crap on better I enjoyed it. Allow when I was young anyway, but that movie is about a and of a mad computers. Scientists to realises that there The cabal contains some kind of code involving the number for pie and gets goes down a crazy rabbit, old insanity and paranoia. It goes. Is a recurring bab game in that movie, implying that it's all about high level, very, very I level thinking yeah, I think that's a, I think. That's excellent new pie is a fantastic, but jarring film, you know and so we see a common trend in these again will call them John Henry moments in every will generally know the story of John Henry right. Now you think they do and how he was a steel drive and man Riah Gimme. Some more will John Henry

for anyone who is outside of the? U s I dont think being. We know for sure how common this story is in this it's any more. He was in full or he was african American Steel driving man S. Nor said that's actually true and his job was to hammer steel drill, to rock to make calls for explosives ripe and they would blast rock striking a railroad tunnel and the legend. He was pitted again new fangled steam powered hammer. It was a man against machine race in the work last backed whether in the state or didn't happen, as did people go back and forth on it, but what we experiencing now with the eyes, a series of increasingly high stakes, John Henry moments, e said Gary Kasparov was. It was a king Jennings, who play deep

yeah it was. I own body Ali can Jennings Omnibus, fame and another things. Yet it has. You weren't, they wanna budget everything yea. In addition, into you know his big tend item witches. Hang it hanging out with us a house of work, right as soon now we are on the country of a world that is both intelligence. To quote Watson is is lots in his who defeated Keyser deep blue, that's the chest with just one: the Watson was the quiz, the quiz, but also by IBM. The right, that's correct! Ok, yes, so can Jennings verses Watson? Kasparov versus deep, blue and now we are on the cost of a new world that is both brave, to quote Aldous, Huxley and strange the average citizen in a developed country interacts with some form of artificial intelligence on an increasingly frequent based,

even if its indirect and we think about when is the last time you called a large company and didn't first go through an automated line, a rough impersonation of a conversation with a computer. I did. Start matching zero right away to meet him ass, the exact because they it's so annoying because it's like, if I thought that that a computer stimulation could help me solve the problem. I probably would have just done this online right back to them, calling the company in the first place the derailleur with my shirt, might get off my lawn mower. No, please do seriously it's like they're. Never that helpful. You always have to repeat yourself over and over again, and you usually do not get the result you're looking for which could change with some of the new technology you are talking about today, which I think we can get into right now, possibly knave maybe I'll change is one of the big task for artificial until right now what what we use. These applications for now is big data.

We have built so many ways to scoop up information there are Poor old primate brains, which are built for foraging and living in small bands and forest. Can analyze and process, all the stuff, our selves, so we built machines and codes in this case. Codes could just be standing for lines of thought to decipher all this data for us and the application of artificial intelligence in this regard has already done amazing things and industries. I technology banking marketing entertainment was automatically of like sweeping through giant sets of data so that humans on how to do it and using particular with I algorithms, I guess, is one way of putting it or just rules Yang, look for thing in this set of data it out this file. If then, whatever so that's kind of Bin, the primary use that up to this point in all things you so What's next right right, because right now it does

matter, if whether the algorithms improve much it doesnt matter, whether there is a sea change, the basic concept is there and this mass. Computing approach, this vacuum cleaner approach, for instance, that the inner uses. Just allows artificial intelligence to learn through brute force in the future, going to see more variation in ay, I will see. Autonomous vehicles will see, predict ordering services, which I know most of us, will hey. And soon it will seem strange, not have some sort of art. Fischer intelligence existing in some aspect of your everyday life. But today's question and a spook he one is how close to human can these programmes actually get, and I think we'll get to that after just one more quick little sponsor break

hey guys, it's Amy, J and I'm so excited to now that worthy season, finale of my Ipod Catholic, Ruth and J, we have NBA I'll start and mental Health Advocate Kevin Love, grubbing robys of war, human potential them better It's so it's like that. The pandemic that nobody is talking about. We talk about Kevin's journey with anxiety, passion and the amazing NBA career, listening We re all the J on the eye, her review, an apple pie or wherever you gave your podcast Will we get crazy, hi I'm I'd like to reserve a table for Wednesday. The sudden Seven people for four people of evil when

Wednesday at six p m Actually we LISA like a brother like apply people of equal value can come How long is the way usually to be seated when tomorrow we gain for next Wednesday the seventh, It's not too lazy. You can cover I gotcha thanks, but then I did that. Didn't sound like anything at all. I was just a conversation between a young man and the proprietor of the chinese restaurant right? and who was who is who ever has a great time. Making restaurant reservation not know now, because have open table for that. Am I right there. I I like many people in our generation hate talking on the phone and it's true

there is even a term for that, I think, was a telephone, a phobia. Yes, but no, I thought you would I found that windows like how can you make a? Can you just make anything? phobia, and if you can, I think it's very american English. Now I have microphone a phobia which is weird considering that I said and fry one all the time right now, I'm in utter terror, but no, I was being coy that clip was not between to humans. I think you can probably guess which side of the conversation was they nonhuman nappy up, because Phyllis him back to her. I think you'll notice a couple of tells The person was trying to call to make a reservation you kind of wrenches thrown into that that exchange where the the person was trying to kill to make a reservation, and there was confusion from the person on the other end about how many what day they one of the reservation to be how many people were the party right and ultimately ended up with. Well, you don't really need a reservation so the person on the other in the was on it was actually they would typically

Reservation seem like now really a thing this restaurants and of the the collar kind of repeated himself the things like the specific time and day, and then there was a momentary pause when they said we will do reservations for groups of five. Yet more knows I gotcha, which still and very human it did. It was not, though it was a conversation between an unsuspecting restaurant employee, as you mentioned, and a computer program, this an example of Google's duplex sis a personal assistant designed to make users lives easier by handling standard phone call, so like doctors, appointments reservations and so on, breaking up with of toying with

What's troubling you or possibly even letting the person on the other end of the phone know that it's not actually you making the call yeah and we get it all kinds of ethical quandary is with this that will get into first, but first and foremost, I think it's interesting that the idea it's. It's inherently tricks the whole the whole affair ray of the idea to not convenience either party, but you are you are genuinely kind of tricking someone new believing there talking to a person. You and you're giving up a lot of stuff. So at first this miss amazing because, like we established earlier telephone phobia, in addition to being really fun to say, is a genuine thing and, I would argue, increasingly p

both are resorting to text warming? How how often you talk on the phone if you're talking like your mom and dad leg on in a pre appointed time, I mean, if I do it interviews for upon tat less sure. That's a very that's, a very specific task, not for fun never find, and unless I just feel like, I could say something out a lot quicker on the phone real quick than I could usually for business, though works topic, sometimes or if conference calls the dreaded conference call. That's also were sitting still habitable yeah for fun. Not very often, you know, but for other people in the mix there's totally dark side to this idea of the super. Convenient amazing idea of my phone being able to make calls for me and set up you know my waxing up men are whatever, because the implicate genes are incredibly far reaching? Aren't they been yet colonels? Not just a it's not

in automated phone line, saying press one. If you like to make it pressed to if you'd like to hear a mailing address? It's not just him, listening and generic human now program capable of impersonating specific humans, namely you capital. Why, oh you specifically you listening to their since got a lot of sail. Opponents. Already now saying that it it it it mimics your voice. That's not what this is implying. Not yet not yet. But the idea is that it is. It has access to all your information right, it has access to your date, books in your phone numbers in and knows everything about you because its tied into this little thing. You carry around with you. That is basically your life in a wallet form more specifically with Google. This this is, Oh fear, increases or the potential for Miss use increases as journalists.

Aroun, excellent article in her name's, Alex grants heard, the dangers are threefold. First, similar twit, what you're proposing? Oh, she's a programme from Google from alphabet and good already knows a ton of personal information about you, whether or not you use an Android phone is means a duplex, and just know what time you want to meet your tender day at that top as place. It also potentially knows every other single thing. Google knows about your life and Google is so widespread that you do not have to have a Google account for this to touch you. Second, a crimson a government, a stalker, pranks tourism, internet troll? Could potentially cheat duplex out of giving

Your information in a phone call imagine duplex, somehow being fooled into thinking. It's calling a restaurant to make aid delivery order and then boom. Somebody has your credit card information, expiration date and security code, There is actually a really great at a whole bunch of great comments in these in the common section on this gives motor article by Alex Crowns, and one of them was the idea of like how this biology could be used by this term. I love that actors in our Rio phrase, will they? What, if you had a pizza place that one to use this kind of technology to blood arrival pizza company with fake calls and keep their phones time, up in an out and out there. That was the british one answer about far fetched one, but the idea, the implications being that you could use this for scamming only big time, as especially with older folks that maybe

gonna key and the fact that this is not a real person and you could possibly automate in scale scamming in a way that would far Sir the way it's done now, because even the least Ex Abby people can tell that your hearing a automated voice. You now spamming you to try to sign up for a crew. Something like that. Absolutely an end to follow up in France, is because you said was threefold. So to follow up on the third thing which, found the props. The most disturbing here no forget perhaps is most disturbing thing, a person who had hijack your duplex account essentially function as you until such a point as their caught, so imagine learning your credit and savings have been wiped out because you were duped it's called in a series of untraceable transfers to some caribbean island. Some offshore account theirs

I think that anyone could do because legally, that thing would be functioning as you crowns and other critics of this technology are also concerned that, at the initial presentation, Google This is another Nido feature and they don't say anything while privacy or concerns. It was very much lip what we can do not pay. Should we just like it's like the land from Jurassic Park. Here your scientists were spending so much time to me whether they could they never thought if they should and crime funds away it knows it does, but in that you may think this is alarmist, but it's just like order to hops, given a jump away from this that, obviously this technology is not for market. No, no, no one saying that is just kind of like a Nido party trick. They did it there. I owe developers conference but yeah you're right as if, if its literally the the voice inside your phone

then it's gonna have access to all the date of it's in your phone and depending on how careful you or with the stuff it could have every bit of identifying information that a human banker would ask you to rise to confirm this. Crazy wire transfer that you want to do what they ask you for Ben? They ask you for like the last four: of your social security number. Your mailing address your name. Maybe your mother's maiden name or some secret word, something that has to be on your phone in some way: shape or form likely, and many people emo themselves those answers, or was there on line they can check back, including passwords. So it's a very important point to make that it has. This duplex off has not been assigned any kind of rule out date. People are still Becky just how close her, how far Google from making this technology viable outside of testing situations and later available to the public, but the problem, This is not the only game in town sure

audio impersonation spooky, but what about video drew member back during the and for a sum of Bin Laden with various people were arguing that the Bin Laden, propaganda. Videos, wasn't the real guy, but someone else impersonating him or some share. Erlich Snapchat filter right, yes getting, but I'm not because all of the crazy tech blows my mind how much research and development they put into a snapshot filth earlier in the more you see them the more realistic they get and the more I could see them. Turning into some preen affair as ways of mapping people's faces, and you know making you look like someone else entirely and making it not just a silly mustache, but a totally believable LA dapple gang yeah and we ve seen look visual manipulation is a tale, is old is journalism we ve seen doctored photos aplenty purporting to be evidence of you, foes giant skeletons goes and

we: have a species have known for a long time that photos can be faked. Someone with a handy knack for Photoshop Paul can really work wonders and now one case we have gone beyond the touch. Ups of images. Have you seen that doctored stuff? They don't want you to know. I'm logo fearsome something fishy gone on with that hand suspicious, indeed, by again no spoilers reg, so if you're wondering fans of West world. Yes, that maize is for you as the verge reported in July of last year. Twenty seventeen were recording this twenty thousand and eighteen July research. At the University of Washington invented a tool that takes audio files, converge them realistic mouth movements and then graphs those onto existing video. The end result of this is someone saying something or appearing to say something that they never actually said. The scary part. Is it really convincing. It's not like mean level give funny allow.

Are there really are examples used footage of our former president, Barack Obama? Did you see this will do there and I keep popping on theirs, but there was a Barrack Obama, snapchat filter and it it does Have that uncanny valley look, but first of all problematic for Matic now, for a sure reason to put on the basis of someone one, it's a different rates than you and play care, you know, I'm just snapchat users were using this. That's wasn't you literally. A snapshot of is also another one. That was a Bob Marley you now with like, but but it's pretty damn realistic other than theirs. They probably did on purpose to make it less realistic, but that kind mapping, quality knock it off the applicant. Is there a knotty yeah and luckily for everyone just got screwed down. We have some good, Good NEWS here. First, they didn't just choose broccoli

because they had some sort of ideological thing or they were like. We like this guy. We hate this guy or anything. They did it because a high profile individual, like a celebrity or President Wilson, time more high quality, video and audio footage. The pool from and also this is this thing takes its a huge attrition process, they had to have at least said thirteen hours of footage just to get started and they say so, there's another neural net kind of learning the language learning some. So this is a problem. They say that their goals are wholly good, hearted gotta quote here the team behind the words say they hope it could be used to improve video chat tools like Skype. Users could collect judge of themselves, speaking use use it to train the software and then, when they need to talk to someone, video on their side would be generated automatically just using their voice. This would help situations where someone's internet is shaky try to save mobile data, but

Google saying about duplex assistant, nifty le handy dandy, tool down you book, your hair appointments, so you don't have to talk to people on the phone. They never talk about the yeah in this. Exactly in this look, we can't we can't ascribe motive can't see these people are lying to you, but we can say that this would have. Technology is a pandora's jar and once that Liddy's unscrew there's no theirs actually no realistic way to prevent both the spread of these faked segments and the spread of things being accused unjustly a fake segments. This this, poses some inherent dangers for journalism. We already see how easily completely fake story can proliferate on Facebook. A bought generated, store, yeah times, lay utterly and a I'd generated. A twitter account for example that can mimic the style of some one of particular idiotic or whatever,

there is another aspect ever there's an article from the information dot com, Google's com, commercial voice assistant could talk its way into call centres because, like we're saying earlier, if you, if you get an automated voice on the phone, you know it's not gonna be actually very helpful at all you're. Probably this can blast past it and they know that, and there are a lot of people that have their jobs being that person. Then it gets passed off too. So if there were a more successful voice, recognition and an occasion to like this, it could put a lot of you jobs. That's a very good point. It could get us closer to not the post work economy, but the posts worker economy and up to now we talked about these two forms of impersonation is discreet in different thing: ray audio on one side, video on another, but what if they be come combined, would have a digital impersonation of a human being

Even you, nor even you, Paul or even me- could exist online with no one, but you and the people you meet in person. Knowing the difference I mean Think about it would sound like us. It would look like us and if it pulled from our online data, footprint It would also know a lot of stuff about us, including the relationships we already have with other people and how we interact with them. So it's possible, for instance, that of version of Matt, Frederick Rights to us from Massachusetts, were foreshadowing there and bonds to the three of us, the way that the real Matt Wood and we wouldn't know the difference between be sending weird memes and thumbs up and doing our inside jokes, and it would already know all of those so much beyond at them. In the lot of times, text, conversation and email conversations are already kind of, in the short hand, or in some kind of a little bit more terse, not mean, but just kind of like we're trying to get it done. That's all I depend on them.

Communication over talking, because it's a lot more boom boom boom. Get it done and move on. I would think it would be easy. For an eye to mimic those that little wing exchanges and not raise a red flag for you are I that's a great point, because even if they get somethin wrong, just think o that must be in a hurry type. You know my finger whatever and ATO Correct, taught her exactly like I've, I've, I've, sent texts and seen how mangled they were but be. Like. Oh you'll know what I mean. Yes, legalistic, let a ride! Yea! I because again it goes the time it would be alarmist for us to say this would plausibly happened to the average person in the near future, but for a high value target like a politician, a celebrity, controversial, businessperson and so on. It's completely within the realm of possibility, in speaking of alarmist, let's open wide the doors of science fiction and do a bit of speculation here completely unfounded

imagine a world where the only communication you can trust becomes face to face in person imagine a world where you are accused of a crime you didn't commit, but you'd have a rock solid alibi of your activities at the time of the alleged crime and surprise surprise they have you on camera, committing it and then confessing to it, and you cannot prove it is not you with this mean that eventually, video evidence becomes inadmissible in court. Does this technique She pose an existential threat to the fabric of digital reality. Is it really us talking to you right now? Yeah man, I don't know, many more, I don't know and into to answer beer pipe authentic. All question earlier yesterday, MRS absolutely a threat, and we rely on things like video evidence, but I could see far enough remove from this particular technological time and place. That could be something that is just a thing of the past man, unity and yeah

picture lay with apparently given of an analog of something that used to be infallible, and now is please up for grabs like nano polygraph, We are polygraph. Exactly great example is a little bit more of an ephemeral example, but even something like the press or like the news you know now, we re used to be able to depend on some level of a in truth in any kind of news, reporting, easy and now, as you say, because of the internet we can see stuff is completely generated. By artificial intelligence that tricks people all the time into believing that it's you know God's truth. It's insane way. I wonder you have questions for you to know. I don't wanna put you on the spot, but this is this is the only conversations we can know is actually happening between us right. I mean we are sitting here looking at each other in the eyes of the Argo. Definitely both humans. As far as I know, we don't have human standards that are believable and after

together with its Lincoln Terminator, the first ones. You could tell the difference right so was so. What do you have any thoughts on the likelihood of this kind of technology wrestling or being used to disrupt the spread of reliable information? Do you think it's a definite? Do you think it might happen? Do you think it's a little bit sensationalist equity thick? I think it absolutely could happen. I it's another one of those things, that's kind of go out there like a piece of bade on fishing hook for the american consumer to bite on to and beyond. This will change my life for the better. This will make it so easy for me to not have to make her appointment, sir, schedule oil changes are what have you and then you? You know what the buying happens. Then it started and opens that Pandora's Jarley you keep talking about so you know, There is no doubt about it. The more access we give our devices and the more

inter lies. Our information is- and I guess by central hazardous mean within a particular- service where it had access to all of it. I guess that's what it that's what it takes. What a serious suck organisers I get into this extra for ragged apple for ya. Siri is not a good personal assistant because it doesn't learn, it doesn't keep track of what you say in starting from scratch? Every time you ask a question right. This is SIRI apples, personal system, which is one of the first, they hit the market but fizzled ridiculously because of Google's and Amazon's Alexa said because of those actually learn and are connected to the internet and learn your vocal patterns and learn your preferences we can have access to that bigger network or is SIRI, is just kind of dumb really do that. I can tell you stuff about apple. It's how you lots of stuff about the history of the company and again, do Google searches for you, but if you say, K Siri what time

is this movie it'll probably give you some tangentially related answers, but not the exact answer you want time was invented shortly after the Big Bang as SIRI Tommy a joke- that's always fun, but no, but Google assistance will do that because it learns your habits and figures out what kinds. Of course since you're asking so, that's what I'm saying when we start getting into that we're we're tapped into this larger network, it does seem like a slippery slope, but yet but even the most paranoid of my friends, some of them are all about these home assistance. Is this thing this comedies railways have words like like I'll give it up? If I can tell to turn on my lights? For me, I was given one of those things in a plug in when I'm cooking and unplug it afterwards. So it probably thinks that I am always cooking or just don't have power at my house. Just fine with, but we want to hear from you

assuming again to the earlier question is really us talking to you now? What would you like to tell us the robot versions of us, impersonating, the vile ethical versions was Joe home assistant. Do you use, these facial recognition, software that is so often market? It is free recreational pursuit. Do we believe that the future will be fraught with things make us question digital reality. Is there a way to combat it? Should there be, you can find on Instagram you can find some facebook. You can find us on Twitter. You find some version of us I feel now we have to say you can find some version of us on there are. You can also, of course, is it our one of our favorite places on the internet, our Facebook page, here's where it gets crazy, where you can see Matt nor and I well. What do we do there? Where

the internet, but here's where its great all kinds of stuff lurk, sometimes Sunday. We respond and hop around in the threads and postpone little gifts and means and have a good time, and there is a lot of fun n None of those are quite the badger for your bag. You are in luck, you can contact us directly. We have an email address. It is conspiracy at how stuff works, dot, com. Here's something good is a new show from the Seneca women Podcast network, and I hurt radio each day.

Use fire to bring you the Good NEWS, the silver lining, the glass half full, because there is good happening in the world everywhere everyday. We just need to look for it and share it. Here's. Something good is a short daily show that offers positive stories, helpful suggestions and shared experiences to inform and inspire you every day, Listen to hear something going on the I hurt radio apple plug gaps or wherever you listen to your favorite shows right now,. Danny Shapiro host of the head, podcast family secrets. I just a new path cast called the way we live now are like have been disrupted interrupted, but that does not mean that we can't reach one another in ways that are both powerful and intimate I'll talk with people the great human tapestry. What's life for you today we'll be reminded that we're not alone listen to the way we live now on the radio, app apple podcast

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