If you're like millions of other people, you hate making phone calls. "Why can't I just text," you might think, "and only call if there's an emergency?" Google may soon have a solution with Duplex, a new technology for conducting natural conversations to carry out “real world” tasks over the phone. For many this feels like a startling and innovative convenience -- no more awkward conversations making appointments or routine check-ins, right? Yet critics of this concept warn we may be approaching something much bigger, and much more dangerous, than a simple piece of helpful software. If computers begin effectively impersonating you, how will you be able to prove your own identity?
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Are you a fair pop culture? Are you up on game? Do you know the labs, if not the call on their show, parkers keeping you in the know, with the latest, your favorite celebrities, current events and providing free gains? The listeners in need ok, visualize, basque bars with your baby. The obvious, though so loud and clear, for bribery thing now make sure you check this out on a brand new package of all sorts of able now hard radio apple or where we do get your packets. Looking for new protest, who isn't they stars
Well, if you want real stories about love, commitment, marriage and hope stories that will help get you.
The strangest of times look no further than
he's in four of the committed podcast, its storytelling
venture about what really happened after I do hosted by me, Joe Piazza, while we are still stuck in the house,
there are three whole seasons of committed for you to bend three available
May I radio, app apple podcast or wherever you
listen near pod casts
from you at those two psychic powers and government conspiracies history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff. They don't want you to know a low is welcome back to the show I'm no standing in for matters that line, because, whenever mats not here, then amount, then I always look at each other for a few minutes and realized it
quite sure how to start the show, however, never fear met, is off on a very special secret project that we cannot wait to tell you about. We will have to tell you sometimes soon's look forward to that new spoilers. In the meantime, they call me Ben. We are joined with our super producer. Paul D,
personal digital assistant, dad PDA. But most importantly, you are you, you are here, and that makes this stuff. They don't want you to know we're
we're pretty excited about today's episode, wouldn't PDA stand for when it was like a palm pilot was a personal digital.
Yes, I believe
Was it a case of those public display of effectual, there's that, with today's to collect blackberries PDA S back before the advent of the Iphone? In the more tablet like?
Vice personal digital assistance has to be as not funny that that's kind of become a new thing, because today we are talking about the kinds of personal digital assistance that you can talk to and can potentially talk
yes. So let's go get some of the contacts. It's it's a very common troop in science fiction robots.
Personated human beings with increasing levels of fidelity and we see it in.
Culture. All the time in some stories like in every episode of the terminator every
King related to the terminator franchise machine consciousness, tries to mimic humanity exe.
Elusively as a means of waging war
places or other serious, such as the matrix.
For intelligence, or I attempts to surround us meet bags within impersonation of reality, complete,
individual machine minds, they can pass for humans.
Cases, humans work together to build technique
policies that can impersonate other human beings in any number awake them, sometimes for sexy times reasons church, sometimes you just companionship and we ve seen that go awry. I mean a terminator. I think the whole point of that serious was that humans created
I now or whatever for their own, deserve their own purposes and then Skynet said what up humans
and with your new our own thing or like in West World, and this goes for
it like a sudden any number of ways from increasingly lifelike androids two entities.
Exist purely in the digital sphere, able to help
genuine seeming conversations and functioning at or above what we,
We consider the average level of human intelligence. As
three has proven science
fiction is often prescient, and it's not.
Common for authors to spin fantasy
tales only for those tails to move years. Dec
later from the realm of science fiction to the world of science fact and the quest for this humanly,
technology, real life, is no different.
During the actually saw Youtube Video, a bunch eclipse of the times that science fiction films have predicted technology that totally
thing right now, like a star trek, for example, there
oh communicators, their basically iphones animal
seen in total recall where their walking through
for body scanners at the airport, me see, like their skeletons, see the weapons signing such as pretty much what we do now,
They are poor, Vienna, put our hands over our heads and stand in those full body scanners where we, hopefully they destroy little cartoon of us with the naughty bits s scrubbed out, but in theory they can see everything
so too is a. I and the kinds of things are talking about today, yeah
the concept of what we call artificial intelligence long time
the sinners. You may recall, as we use
phrase. You may recall that as some four
the guests of ours have objected to the term artificial intelligence with a very good question. What makes it artificial? What makes it if we're talking about consciousness
what makes it any less of a consciousness than our own right and we think that's a good. We think that's a very good and valid point. We tend to
I agree with it, but for the sake of brevity, we're just gonna go with a I as a non pejorative thing. It's
easier to see it. That way, the cons
Today I have surprising
the old routes in our culture, especially if we consider those ancient tat
was of non human entities. Impersonating human beings, the the
Harry stories of Changeling switched out a birth or are gods
Jeanne shape to breed with animals or people or shaped shifts.
The twentieth century. The concept of this artificial, inorganic thinking life form
Popularize justly
The point me with science fiction through culture and fix it. I get leave you think.
One of the earliest artificial
intelligences that blew up in the way
world. It's the tin me
in the wizard of OZ. Yet ever thought of him like that, but I guess it's true. It's a good stand in, for there is even the heart that he gets. The spoiler alert for the wizard of OZ sure is like clockwork heart me now. It's like something to add to his machinations is not actually a physical harm, so he's absolutely meant to be like an automaton witches
kind of the earliest form of robotics that go back to ancient times. Even we have these incredibly intricate creations,
move through a series of gears and police and what have you, but on a surly imbued with any kind of like the ability to make choices, but there are some they can even like play games in his words like I'm, a writer
the mechanical Turk s rights would at year end they were lauded
for their ability to appear to do human, ask thing rice, but people general
He did not think they had a soul for three minutes and a kind of goes
You were, we had some folks say, had take issue with the term
artificial intelligence. We also had some folks right and taking issue with the term.
The idea of machine learning does
It is a man
of were still at a place where we have to pay
grand machines to do what we want. We certainly have no have yet to fully experience
like idea, singularity where the machine takes what we ve imbued with and develops its ability to go outside of that are like make decisions outside of it.
There's that we represent very rarely. Have we seen that and we do see it they typically
shut down its yeah meadow cognition right, so we think it
thinking, rather so by the nineteen fifties, scientist mathematicians and philosophers- we're
familiar with this concept of Colin Powell, artificial intelligence and our species began to Cognitive Lee migrate from this world. A fantasy toward a world increasingly grounded in fact, and we can we
hit some of the high points of artificial intelligence here in nineteen. Fifty, the famous
breaker Alan Turing made one of the most significant early steps in real life ay I, when he
and some of his colleagues created where we now
commonly called the turing test is named after him. Of course, he wrote. This paper
old computing machinery and intelligence that laid the groundwork both for the means of constructing a sigh and for the
ways in which we can measure the intelligence of that I or our
success, building at which might kind to be two different things and
sadly whelp, amazingly and sadly, this lineup
was ahead of the curve. Touring could not get right.
Work building these human, like mines or, more specifically, he couldn't
to work building minds. They could fool humans into thinking. They were also human minds because the technology
the time had hard
It's like to the point you make nor about the mechanical Turk, open.
One nineteen, forty, nine or so computers couldn't really
store commands,
say commands or decisions here they could only execute them, and this meant that the computers we could
build at that time.
Unable to satisfy a key prerequisite of intelligence. They couldn't
Remember past events pay
information and therefore they could not
use, this memory to inform, present commands or decisions, and in this way computers began
at that Tabula Roscoe State, a blank slate state that so many mystic spiritualist and philosophers spend their lives attempting to attain. I think that's fast,
mating- computers like people in practice, hard core meditation existed mentally only in the
yeah, we'll get back to that concept and a little bit in terms of some of the newer computers and how they are able to quote him, quote figure things out and some better than others. But let us go back to the fifth.
For a second, when computers were insanely expensive. Any MRS no see
they ran you, you at least one he couldn't even own, and I wasn't a thing for about. You
ok, a month which I believe been
in today's standards. That would be about two million dollars for one month of computer use yeah two thousand eighteen dollars a lotta Netflix subscriptions re. My friend
and only, of course, the most prestigious universities in huge technology corporations could even you now afford the cost of entry,
so for chairing and his ilk jack
be able to succeed in building something resembling anywhere closer
visual intelligence. They would have to be part.
Some network of high profile, very
feed, influential fun,
as of research, that would that they would be able to receive just a an absolute boat load of money from to get this kind of work done
imagine you know that's a hard sell. It seems really interesting now, but that now we know tat the here. But back then, it was literally walk up the people and say hey we're good at math, and do you remember the tin man from wizard of OZ? We sort I want to make that. Can we have all of the money? So that's that's tough, but the soldier dawn in nineteen. Fifty five another groundbreaking event occurred. There is the premier of approval
called the logic theorists. It was
the mimic, the problem solving skills of a human being, and it was funded by
whoever favoured shady buggy men, the rest,
Jane Development Corporation, known today is ran to Rand Corporation, sounds like something out of a I find movie in and of itself
and it still around doing pretty interesting and secretive work doubly they that of having a good relationship with the Eu S. Eliot government, bigtime, apps, you're, absolutely right,
this logic. Theorist is considered by many people to be the first technically. The fur
artificial intelligence programme, and there was a big conference in May.
Seen fifty six hosted by John Mccartin,
in a guy named Morven, Minsk IE and in this conference they presented the law,
theorist as a proof of concept. The conference is called the Dartmouth
I'm research project on artificial intelligence, and you know why.
Thought of you with this. They knew how we both love, acronym, filling in this when the day would be silent, sums gonna, call it sir pie. That's great! That's better is the deep blue it you know you can.
Why do a d sound
These are the of life, so the conference itself fell short
the original, very ambitious aims of the organizers they wanted to bring together the world's best and brightest subject matter. Experts and, by God, make an artificial might yet still weak.
We can write right. They set it to
seven days, that's what he said. We could do it for like that. But the problem lies
pretty much. Everybody disagreed on how exactly you would make a human like intelligence, and at this point there still thinking in terms of artificial intelligence.
Being like humans, which is a huge assumption.
But the unanimously agreed for the very first time on a single crucial point that it was possible to make a
set the stage for the next two decades of research so from ninety
fifty seven to nineteen. Seventy four artificial intelligence.
Interest in our research and it really flourish computers. They could stick. Now they were
improving by leaps and bounds. It could store more information, which is crucial and, of course, they became faster and cheaper and more accessible.
Machine learning algorithms also began to improve people got better, knowing which Agora them to use for their particular purposes, which was also important because it was
You know that there were sort of an established language.
Of algorithms that people could pick and choose from to suit their particular problems, early successes
The general problem, Solver Ben, come into a bit more about the general problem, solver, it does what it says on the tin. He should give it a variety of problem this guy and, generally speaking, it would attempt to solve the nine a silicon do the most creative solution by yet again, that's that's like an early days thing. So at the time it was very impressive but, of course
is just the beginning, and I you know we
you had another example, I think of
application in that time. Yet this is when Alexa was first invented. Yes, yes,
like all spoken language interpreter which a lot
spoken language interpreter, which I dunno. I wonder if Elect says it is a nod to Eliza. What do you think, then? That would be pretty cool. Only a couple: letters Ass: it was
working language interpreter that help convinced that government
to really okay. This is something they were into, and this is really important for our story today. I it convinced the government specifically DARPA here in the United States to start
funding. Artificial intelligence. Dark
As you know
few or a long time. Listen. This show DARPA is the.
Resident mad Science Department of the United States government and it stands for
thence advanced research projects agency there, the
You do all the x files
level or fringe level stuff you hear about in the news or often and that's gonna, be there.
In front of it, and then there is also stuff like mats, favorite public private partnership. Skunk works is too good name I mean if you can make it for nothing other than they do all the secret AIR force projects, and you now spy planes and all kinds of stuff. It's kind of technology think about that is probably you
ahead of anything we ve seen out there in the world today has staked for you. Efforts in this made people very gas, very optimistic, because
it's another very human thing that we haven't quite learned: how to program optimism that in
Teen. Seventy Marvin Minsky that guy who co hosted this conference. He told life magazine
from three to eight years. We will have a machine with the general intelligence of an average human being
He was wrong, but your point about suppressed,
acknowledging all who is wrong so far as we know it centres
to not get too far ahead of ourselves, but with everything that's going on with big public facing come
he's like Google and Amazon and Apple, and you start to get a sense,
maybe the secret government stuff isn't quite as far ahead as it once was right. That is my opinion at a now. Will I think it's it's
It is something we want to hear from you about
gentlemen, because its proven that
In terms of physical
hardware, materiel of Warden,
beings in aviation and stop. It is proven that the? U S in most other governments, want to keep that stuff under wraps absolute.
I guess, what I'm saying is when you, when you're looking at a company, that's trying to sell you something and you see how far they advance with each other
date every year right, you kind of get a sense that maybe this is about where there actually at that's that's the point so,
the aviation sector and the weapons of war stuff. To contrast it here, because what what
Seeing also is that the government
of the world. This is true. The governments in the world usually can't pay
the best and brightest as much as the private entities getting so there
grabbing some of the best workers unless those
people are severely ideological and then
You're making most of the progress which they would later cell to a government,
think. Maybe there is a little more transparency, I think so, which is a potential interesting Lee positive thing. The level of let's get her again, but keep was keep human right along. So the quest for human life
artificial intelligence soldier dawn, but it still had tremendous obstacles. Although computers could now store information, they couldn't store enough of it and they could not process it at a fast enough pay. So funding dwindled,
till the eighties and that's when a I
Sperience, a renaissance which will get to after a word from our spot
world yours the ball park as the new cars with a fresh perspective, culture bail, you not just sit in a building in one city. Impressed us talk about this there. All eighty every owner is seventy own away out creep in all social media. Ok, she carries out a little quality or whatever they may grab some outside any measure does I'll see to the millionth right. Algerians explained sitting handrail some a ray of light like yeah yeah, yeah Lorelei, my man is in jail and I started the like someone else. I know it's not right, but I really can't take when I feel what should I do even coupled with your very obviously gave. Worrisome makes a huge out on our brand new back and apply itself of animal now on the radio have on natural gas or whatever you get your plaid cast
it seems like it should be easy, but it's not just getting out of bed and getting your day started, trying to accomplish everything you need to do in your day that to do list as a lot easier when you're getting news stories and music to lift your mood and preparing for the day ahead, get connected to the things that make you laugh and make you think or make you want to reach out and share with a friend every morning with us, it's Elvis Joanne in the morning show listen to us on cue, one or two or anywhere in the world on the Iheart Radio, APP.
In eighteen eighty, these new tools and methods gave
in the field of HIV Aids that Renaissance, that that Ben mention that kick in the digital pants
and a guy named John Hartfield and another fella named David Romo hard popularized, this concept of deep learning, which is a technique that allow computers
you learn using experiences using pang at
Jim to surroundings, for example.
The idea of the fact that our phones or serving us adds because we're talking about stuff in stating that information in and using it to do
Something and learning are our habit.
Right- and this is a really important part of things like these personal digital assistance that we talked about
at the top of the show and the
side of the brain here too, or I guess in parallel approach a guy.
Edward Fagin Bomb introduced experts
systems that mimicked
decision making process of a human experts. What happens is the programme will ask an expert
the field like it would ask super producer Paul
Richard Feynman question about production or physics, and then
would see. How do you respond in this given situation and it could risk and it would take this
for every situation. It could soak up and then not experts
could later receive advice from that programme about that
information. It sounds basic
it, sounds like how a search engine can know with increasingly accurate levels of fidelity. What
do you mean to ask when you ask a question? Remember when Google used to be super passiveaggressive and say
Jus Moon went out.
Fills it in four years ago instantly and the reason for that is that it has access to every entry,
that anyone is ever put into Google, and so it combines all that information and makes the best guess as to what it thinks you're, probably searching for based on
everyone else that has started searching for that kind of thing has also done, which is that same deep learning stuff that is coming into play, which makes me
make tax so funny it can be. I guess it depends on this
lot your on- and we know that a little bit eureka. Sometimes it can be disrelish bone
Haven't you figure this out yet SIRI boiler alert, no as but this was all really put to the test in the nineties in two thousand, when we really hit some big landmark moment,
Some high water mark moments in artificial intelligence, like with the with Gary Kasparov, who I know that you are fascinated with, although he is, I problematic figure at time, yeah yeah Rigi it. I semitism aside your chest.
Grandmasters. The human
At least right are
immensely even fractals compelling
because there's always some other layer to their personality, and you have to
wonder about the
ported correlation between mental instability and high thresholds of
help ensure because well that's it
way for another Danish. I you know what does it make it? A little clip
for us, but we can do it so
yeah you're, seeing he was defeated by deep Blue built by IBM a computer just built to play chess. This was
John Henry moment for
the human race and then a scientist name, Cynthia Brace L created Kismet a programme
Recognising and displaying emotion now for
all our technical futurists flaws
First in the crowd, does Kismet.
Recognising and displaying emotion automatically mean that Kismet experiences, emotion, stew!
for another day, but these purse
versus,
programme. One on one matches didn't stop with the
of chess there was also jeopardy right and
Then there was one other one that had tremendous
implications for the world of programming yeah now
Much more recently with Google's alpha go: let's go
then the ancient chinese strategy game of go and it successfully defeated a go champion, Kai G and go, as is in a tourist Lee, complex game, very difficult to predict and and always have to be many many move ahead.
Opponents, so that's pretty cool. That's almost a step. Further, wouldn't you say, bandit, go would be taken
more challenging for a computer to beat a
an opponent, then chess, even my guess, is like an adversarial, serious leap forward.
Would absolutely agree and a lot of people were
even more sceptical watching that game,
people understood go? We can also go
don't say it Paul. I dont know if you are familiar with this, but are you? Are you again?
enthusiasts do play this game? No, not really!
I've never played. I remember it from the movie pie, remember
the one one of their NEO Nazis, freshly, which people
crap on better I enjoyed it. Allow when I was young anyway, but that movie is about
a
and of a mad computers.
Scientists to realises that there
The cabal contains some kind of
code involving the number for pie and gets goes down a crazy rabbit, old insanity and paranoia.
It goes. Is a recurring bab game in that movie, implying that it's all about high level, very, very
I level thinking yeah, I think that's a, I think. That's excellent new pie is a fantastic, but jarring film, you know
and so we see a common trend in these again will call them John Henry moments in every
will generally know the story of John Henry right. Now you think they do and how he was a steel drive and man Riah Gimme. Some more will John Henry
for anyone who is outside of the? U s I dont think being. We know for sure how common this story is in this
it's any more. He was in full
or he was african American Steel driving man S. Nor said that's actually true and his job was to hammer steel drill,
to rock to make calls for explosives ripe and they would blast rock
striking a railroad tunnel and
the legend.
He was pitted again
new fangled steam powered hammer. It was a man against machine race in the
work last backed whether in the state or didn't happen, as did people go back and forth on it, but what we
experiencing now with the eyes, a series of increasingly high stakes, John Henry moments,
e said Gary Kasparov was. It was a king Jennings, who play deep
yeah it was. I own body Ali can Jennings Omnibus, fame and another things. Yet it has.
You weren't, they wanna budget everything yea. In addition,
into you know his big tend item witches. Hang it hanging out with us a house of work,
right as soon now
we are on the country of a world that is both intelligence. To quote
Watson is is lots in his who defeated Keyser
deep blue, that's the chest with just one: the Watson was the quiz, the quiz, but also by IBM. The right, that's correct! Ok, yes, so can Jennings verses Watson?
Kasparov versus deep, blue and
now we are on the cost of
a new world that is both brave, to quote Aldous, Huxley and strange
the average citizen in a developed country interacts
with some form of artificial intelligence on an increasingly frequent based,
even if its indirect and we think about
when is the last time you called a large company and didn't first go through an automated line, a rough impersonation of a conversation with a computer. I did.
Start matching zero right away to meet him ass, the exact because they
it's so annoying because it's like, if I thought that that a computer
stimulation could help me solve the problem. I probably would have just done this online right back to them, calling the company in the first place the derailleur with my shirt, might get off my lawn mower. No, please do seriously it's like they're. Never that helpful. You always have to repeat yourself over and over again, and you usually do not get the result you're looking for
which could change with some of the new technology you are talking about today, which I think we can get into right now, possibly knave
maybe I'll change is one of the big task for artificial until
right now what what we use. These applications for now is big data.
We have built so many ways to scoop up information there are
Poor old primate brains, which are built for foraging and living in small bands and forest. Can
analyze and process, all the stuff, our selves, so we built machines and codes in this case. Codes could just be standing for lines of thought to decipher all this data for us and the application of artificial intelligence in this regard has already done amazing things and industries. I technology banking marketing entertainment was automatically of like sweeping through giant sets of data so that humans on how to do it and using particular with
I algorithms, I guess, is one way of putting it or just rules Yang, look for
thing in this set of data it out this file. If then, whatever so that's kind of Bin, the primary use that up to this point in all
things you so
What's next right right, because right now it does
matter, if whether the algorithms improve much it doesnt matter, whether there is a sea change, the basic concept is there and this mass.
Computing approach, this vacuum cleaner approach, for instance, that the inner uses.
Just allows artificial intelligence to learn through brute force in the future,
going to see more variation in ay, I will see. Autonomous vehicles will see, predict
ordering services, which I know most of us, will hey.
And soon it will seem strange, not have some sort of art.
Fischer intelligence existing in some aspect of your everyday life. But today's question and a spook he one is how close to human can these programmes actually get, and I think we'll get to that after just one more quick little sponsor break
hey guys, it's Amy, J and I'm so excited to now that worthy season, finale of my Ipod Catholic, Ruth and J, we have NBA I'll start and mental Health Advocate Kevin Love, grubbing robys of war, human potential them better
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Will we get crazy,
hi I'm I'd like to reserve a table for Wednesday. The sudden
Seven people
for four people of evil
when
Wednesday at six p m
Actually we LISA like a brother like apply people of equal value
can come
How long is the way usually to be seated
when tomorrow we gain for next Wednesday
the seventh,
It's not too lazy. You can cover
I gotcha thanks, but then I did that.
Didn't sound like anything at all. I was just a conversation between a young man and the proprietor of
the chinese restaurant right?
and who was who is
who ever has a great time. Making restaurant reservation not know now, because
have open table for that. Am I right there. I I like many
people in our generation hate talking on the phone and it's true
there is even a term for that, I think, was a telephone, a phobia. Yes, but no, I thought you would I found that windows like how can you make a? Can you just make anything?
phobia, and if you can, I think it's very american English. Now I have microphone a phobia which is weird considering that I said and fry one all the time right now, I'm in utter terror, but no, I was being coy that clip was not between
to humans. I think you can probably guess which side of the conversation was they nonhuman nappy up, because
Phyllis him back to her. I think you'll notice a couple of tells
The person was trying to call to make a reservation
you kind of wrenches thrown into that that exchange where the the person was trying to kill
to make a reservation, and there was
confusion from the person on the other end about how many
what day they one of the reservation to be how many people were
the party right and ultimately ended up with. Well, you don't really need a reservation so
the person on the other in the was on it was actually they would typically
Reservation seem like now really a thing this restaurants and of the the collar kind of repeated
himself the things like the specific time and day, and then there was a momentary pause when they said we will
do reservations for groups of five. Yet more knows I gotcha, which still
and very human it did. It was not, though it was a conversation between an unsuspecting restaurant employee, as you mentioned, and a computer program, this
an example of Google's duplex sis
a personal assistant designed to make
users lives easier by handling standard phone call, so like doctors, appointments reservations and so on, breaking up with
of toying with
What's troubling you or possibly even letting the person on the other end of the phone know that it's not actually you making the call yeah and we get it all kinds of ethical quandary is with this that will get into first, but first and foremost, I think it's interesting that the idea
it's. It's inherently tricks the whole the whole affair ray of the idea
to not
convenience either party, but you are you
are genuinely kind of tricking someone new believing there talking to a person. You
and you're giving up a lot of stuff. So at first this
miss amazing because, like we established earlier telephone
phobia, in addition to being really fun to say, is
a genuine thing and, I would argue, increasingly p
both are resorting to text warming? How how often you talk on the phone if you're talking like your mom and dad leg on in a pre appointed time, I mean, if I do it interviews for upon tat less sure. That's a very that's, a very specific task, not for fun never find, and unless I just feel like, I could say something out a lot quicker on the phone real quick than I could usually for business, though works topic, sometimes or if conference calls the dreaded
conference call. That's also were sitting still habitable yeah for fun. Not very often,
you know, but for other people in the mix there's totally
dark side to this idea of the super. Convenient amazing idea of my phone being able to make calls for me and set up
you know my waxing up
men are whatever, because the implicate
genes are incredibly far reaching? Aren't they been yet colonels? Not just a it's not
in automated phone line, saying press one. If you like to make
it pressed to if you'd like to hear a mailing address? It's not just him,
listening and generic human now
program capable of impersonating specific humans, namely you capital. Why, oh
you specifically you listening to their since got a lot of sail.
Opponents. Already now
saying that it it it it mimics your voice. That's not what this is implying. Not yet not yet.
But the idea is that it is. It has access to all your information right,
it has access to your date, books in your phone numbers in and knows everything about you because its tied into this little thing.
You carry around with you. That is basically your life in a wallet form more specifically with Google. This this is,
Oh fear, increases or the potential for Miss use increases as journalists.
Aroun, excellent article in her name's, Alex grants
heard, the dangers are threefold. First, similar twit, what you're proposing? Oh,
she's a programme from Google from alphabet and good
already knows a ton of personal information about you, whether or not you use an Android phone is means a duplex,
and just know what time you want to meet your tender day at that top as place. It also
potentially knows every other single thing. Google knows about your life
and Google is so widespread that you do not have to have a Google account for this to touch you. Second, a crimson
a government, a stalker, pranks tourism, internet troll? Could
potentially cheat duplex out of giving
Your information in a phone call imagine duplex, somehow being fooled into thinking. It's calling a restaurant to make aid delivery order and then boom. Somebody has your credit card information, expiration date and security code,
There is actually a really great at a whole bunch of great comments in these in the common section on this gives motor article by Alex Crowns, and one of them was the idea of like how this
biology could be used by this term. I love that actors in our Rio phrase,
will they? What, if you had a pizza place that one
to use this kind of technology to
blood arrival pizza company with fake calls and keep their phones time,
up in an out and out there. That was the british one answer about far fetched one, but the idea, the implications being that you could use this for scamming
only big time, as especially with older folks that maybe
gonna key and the fact that this is not a real person and you could possibly automate
in scale scamming in a way that would far Sir
the way it's done now, because even the least
Ex Abby people can tell that your hearing a automated voice. You now spamming you to try to sign up for a crew.
Something like that. Absolutely an end to follow up
in France, is because you said was threefold. So to follow up on the third thing which,
found the props. The most disturbing here no forget perhaps is
most disturbing thing, a person
who had hijack your duplex account
essentially function
as you until such a point as their caught, so imagine learning your credit and savings have been wiped out because you were duped
it's called in a series of untraceable transfers to some caribbean island. Some offshore account theirs
I think that anyone could do because legally, that thing would be functioning as you crowns and other critics of this technology are also concerned that, at the initial
presentation, Google
This is another Nido feature and they don't say anything while privacy or concerns. It was very much lip what we can do not pay. Should we just like it's like the land from Jurassic Park. Here
your scientists were spending so much time to me whether they could they never thought if they should and crime funds away
it knows it does, but in that you may think this is alarmist, but it's just like order to hops, given a jump away from this that, obviously this technology is not
for market. No, no, no one saying that is just kind of like a Nido party trick. They did it there. I owe developers conference but yeah you're right as if, if its literally the the
voice inside your phone
then it's gonna have access to all the date of it's in your phone and depending on how careful you or with the stuff it could have every bit of identifying information that a human banker would ask you to rise to confirm this.
Crazy wire transfer that you want to do what they ask you for Ben? They ask you for like the last four:
of your social security number. Your mailing address your name. Maybe your mother's maiden name or some secret word, something that has to be on your phone in some way: shape or form likely, and many people emo themselves those answers, or was there on line they can check back, including passwords. So it's a very important point
to make that it has. This duplex off has not been assigned any kind of rule out date. People are still
Becky just how close her, how far Google
from making this technology viable outside of testing situations and later available to the public, but the problem,
This is not the only game in town sure
audio impersonation spooky, but what about video drew member back during the
and for a sum of Bin Laden with various people were arguing that the Bin Laden,
propaganda. Videos, wasn't the real guy, but someone else impersonating him or some share. Erlich Snapchat filter right, yes getting, but I'm not because all of the crazy tech blows my mind how much research and development they put into a snapshot filth earlier in the more you see them the more realistic they get and the more I could see them. Turning into some preen affair
as ways of mapping people's faces, and you know making you look
like someone else entirely and making it not just a silly mustache, but a totally believable LA dapple gang yeah and we ve seen look
visual manipulation is a tale, is old is journalism we ve seen doctored photos aplenty purporting to be evidence of you,
foes giant skeletons goes and
we: have a species have known for a long time that photos can be faked. Someone with a handy knack for Photoshop Paul
can really work wonders and now one case we have gone beyond the touch. Ups of
images. Have you seen that doctored stuff? They don't want you to know. I'm logo fearsome something fishy gone on with that hand suspicious, indeed, by again no spoilers reg, so
if you're wondering fans of West world. Yes, that maize is for you as
the verge reported in July of last year. Twenty seventeen were recording this twenty thousand and eighteen July research.
At the University of Washington invented a tool that takes audio files, converge them
realistic mouth movements and then graphs those onto existing video. The end result of this is someone saying something or appearing to say something that they never actually said. The scary part. Is it
really convincing. It's not like mean level give funny allow.
Are there really are examples used footage of our former president, Barack Obama? Did you see this will do there and I keep popping on theirs, but there was a Barrack Obama, snapchat filter and it it does
Have that uncanny valley look, but first of all
problematic for Matic now, for a sure reason to put on the basis of someone one, it's a different rates than you and play care,
you know, I'm just snapchat users were using this. That's wasn't you literally. A snapshot of is also another one. That was a Bob Marley you now with like, but but it's
pretty damn realistic other than theirs.
They probably did on purpose to make it less realistic, but that kind
mapping, quality
knock it off the applicant.
Is there a knotty yeah
and luckily for everyone
just got screwed down. We have some good,
Good NEWS here. First, they didn't just choose broccoli
because they had some sort of ideological thing or they were like. We like this guy. We hate this guy or anything. They did it because a high
profile individual, like a celebrity or President Wilson,
time more high quality, video and audio footage. The pool from and also this is this thing takes its a huge
attrition process, they had to have at least said
thirteen hours of footage just to get started and they say
so, there's another neural net kind of learning the language learning some. So this is a problem.
They say that their goals are wholly good, hearted gotta quote here
the team behind the words say they hope it could be used to improve video chat tools like Skype. Users could collect
judge of themselves, speaking use use it to train the software and then, when they need to talk to someone, video on their side would be generated automatically just using their voice. This would help
situations where someone's internet is shaky
try to save mobile data, but
Google saying about duplex assistant, nifty le handy dandy, tool down you book, your hair appointments, so you don't have to talk to people on the phone. They never talk about the
yeah in this. Exactly in this look, we can't we can't ascribe motive
can't see these people are lying to you, but we can say that this
would have. Technology is a pandora's jar and once that Liddy's unscrew there's no theirs
actually no realistic way to prevent both the spread of these faked segments and the spread of things being accused unjustly a fake segments. This this,
poses some inherent dangers for journalism. We already see how easily completely fake story can proliferate on Facebook. A bought generated, store, yeah times, lay utterly and a I'd generated. A twitter account
for example that can mimic the style of some one of
particular idiotic or whatever,
there is another aspect ever there's an article from the information dot com, Google's com,
commercial voice assistant could talk its way into call centres
because, like we're saying earlier, if you, if you get an automated voice on the phone, you know it's not gonna be actually very helpful at all you're. Probably this can blast past it and they know that, and there are a lot of people that have their jobs being that person. Then it gets passed off too. So if there were a more successful voice, recognition and
an occasion to like this, it could put a lot of you
jobs. That's a very good point.
It could get us closer to not the post work economy, but the posts worker economy and up to now we
talked about these two forms of impersonation is discreet in different thing:
ray audio on one side, video on another, but what if they be
come combined, would have a digital impersonation of a human being
Even you, nor even you, Paul or even me- could exist online with no one, but you and the people you meet in person. Knowing the difference I mean
Think about it would sound like us. It would look like us and if it pulled from our online data, footprint
It would also know a lot of stuff about us, including the relationships we already have with other people and how we interact with them. So it's possible, for instance, that of
version of Matt, Frederick Rights
to us from Massachusetts, were foreshadowing there and
bonds to the three of us, the way that the real Matt Wood and we wouldn't know the difference between be sending weird memes and thumbs up and doing our inside jokes, and it would already know all of those so much beyond at them. In the lot of times, text, conversation and email conversations are already kind of, in the short hand, or in some kind of a little bit more terse, not mean, but just kind of like we're trying to get it done. That's all I depend on them.
Communication over talking, because it's a lot more boom boom boom.
Get it done and move on. I would think it would be easy.
For an eye to mimic those
that little wing exchanges and not raise a red flag for you are I that's a great point, because even if they get somethin wrong, just think o that must be in a hurry type. You know my finger whatever and ATO Correct, taught her exactly like I've, I've, I've, sent texts and
seen how mangled they were but be. Like. Oh you'll know what I mean. Yes, legalistic, let a ride! Yea! I because again it goes the time it would be alarmist for us to say this would plausibly happened to the average person in the near future,
but for a high value target like a politician, a celebrity, controversial, businessperson and so on. It's completely within the realm of possibility, in speaking of alarmist, let's open wide the doors of science fiction and do a bit of speculation here completely unfounded
imagine a world where the only communication you can trust becomes face to face in person
imagine a world where you are accused of a crime you didn't commit, but you'd
have a rock solid alibi of your activities at the time of the alleged crime and surprise surprise they have you on camera, committing it and then confessing to it, and you cannot prove it is not you with this mean that eventually, video evidence becomes inadmissible in court. Does this technique
She pose an existential threat to the fabric of digital reality. Is it really us talking to you right now? Yeah man, I don't know,
many more, I don't know and into to answer beer pipe authentic. All question earlier yesterday, MRS absolutely a threat, and we rely on things like video evidence, but I could see far enough remove from this particular technological time and place. That could be something that is just a thing of the past
man, unity and yeah
picture lay with apparently given of an analog of something that used to be infallible, and now is
please up for grabs like nano polygraph,
We are polygraph. Exactly great example is a little bit more of an ephemeral example, but even something like the press or like the news you know now, we re used to be able to depend on some level of
a in truth in any kind of news, reporting, easy and now, as you say, because of the internet we can see stuff is completely generated.
By artificial intelligence that tricks people
all the time into believing that it's you know God's truth.
It's insane way. I wonder you
have questions for you to know. I don't wanna put you on the spot, but this is this is
the only conversations we can know is actually happening between us right. I mean we are sitting here looking at each other in the eyes of the Argo. Definitely both humans.
As far as I know, we don't have human standards that are believable and after
together with its Lincoln Terminator, the first ones. You could tell the difference right so was so. What
do you have any thoughts on the likelihood of this kind of technology
wrestling or being used to disrupt the spread of reliable information? Do you think it's a definite? Do you think it might happen? Do you think it's a little bit sensationalist equity thick?
I think it absolutely could happen. I
it's another one of those things, that's kind of
go out there like a piece of bade on fishing hook for the american consumer to bite on to and beyond. This will change my life for the better. This will make it so easy for me to not have to make her appointment, sir,
schedule oil changes are what have you and then you? You know what
the buying happens. Then it started and opens that Pandora's Jarley you keep talking about so you know,
There is no doubt about it. The more access we give our devices and the more
inter lies. Our information is- and I guess by central hazardous mean within a particular-
service where it had access to all of it. I guess that's what it that's what it takes.
What a serious suck organisers
I get into this extra for ragged apple for ya. Siri is not a good personal assistant because it doesn't learn, it doesn't keep track
of what you say in starting from scratch? Every time you ask a question right. This is SIRI apples, personal system, which is one of the first,
they hit the market but fizzled ridiculously
because of Google's and Amazon's Alexa said because of those actually learn and are connected to the internet and learn your vocal patterns and learn your preferences we can have access to that bigger network or is SIRI, is just kind of dumb
really do that. I can tell you stuff about apple. It's how you lots of stuff about the history of the company and again, do Google searches for you, but if you say, K Siri what time
is this movie it'll probably give you some tangentially related answers, but not the exact answer you want time was invented shortly after the Big Bang as SIRI Tommy a joke- that's always fun, but no, but Google assistance will do that because it learns your habits and figures out what kinds. Of course
since you're asking so,
that's what I'm saying when we start getting into that we're we're tapped into this larger network, it does seem like a slippery slope, but yet
but even the most paranoid of my friends, some of them are all about these home assistance. Is this thing this comedies railways have words like like I'll give it up? If I can tell
to turn on my lights? For me, I was given one of those things in a plug in when I'm cooking and unplug it afterwards. So it probably thinks that I am always cooking or just don't have power at my house.
Just fine with, but we want to hear from you
assuming again to the earlier question is really us talking to you now? What would you like to tell us the robot versions of us, impersonating, the vile
ethical versions was Joe
home assistant. Do you use,
these facial recognition, software that is so often market? It is
free recreational pursuit. Do
we believe that the future will be fraught with things
make us question digital reality. Is there a way to combat it? Should there be, you can find
on Instagram you can find some facebook. You can find us on Twitter.
You find some version of us I feel
now we have to say you can find some version of us on there are. You can also, of course,
is it our one of our favorite places on the internet, our Facebook page, here's where it gets
crazy, where you can see Matt nor and I well. What do we do there? Where
the internet, but here's where its great all kinds of stuff lurk, sometimes Sunday.
We respond and hop around in the threads and postpone little gifts and means and have a good time, and there is a lot of fun n
None of those are quite the badger for your bag. You are in luck, you can contact us directly. We have an email address. It is conspiracy at how stuff works, dot, com.
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Transcript generated on 2020-04-28.