Holly and Tracy talk about George Sand's defiance against social convention, and the difficulty in discussing certain aspects of their most recent episode on activism.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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but we haven't really been seeing them see you now available wherever you get. My guests welcome to stuff you missed history class. The production of I hurried use how stuff works. hello and welcome, unwelcome podcast for another casual Friday chap I'm home fry and I'm Tracy wealth in sore verse episode. This week about the much ado by major sound. I adore verse on arms sales to settle for a real this business. I just love the whole idea of her yeah. It's interesting she's, one of those ones where, because she was so connected to so many other really important people in in history, like she's one of those nexus point people- and I even mentioned in the episode that you know my time- travel dream would be to go back to her house, it no longer and delicate,
was there and hang out, but it is we. We talked about it on the show several times that her life was very full and rich one, but she did not show away from adventure. She was very, very much a social butterfly, so lake. It was shockingly difficult the kind of picks ruined beleaguered. These are the key things we have to discuss and then figure out like what other things you can include that. flesh that out without getting overly complicated. It's tricky. There is tricky I was worry particularly about the her falling I wish Chopin and like how that played out with her. so large and we did get into it much in in the episode. But we turn that Chopin had come to think of her children as his own in many ways, and we when you can they were together now nine years and lived as a family and lake during that
I'm so large in particular, was a little kid little little kid? But you know I'm a young girl when he met her and then she had. He was really for her very formative years and her becoming a young woman in and eventually getting married, and so I can understand why he would have felt the closeness with her and the desire to not just cut her out of out of his life right. Because of this financial argument there was going on. and then I think about how's. Your sound felt so completely betrayed by all of that yeah fascinating one. I feel like that's a scenario that that it has been played out throughout history, including today, like I for sure know, people who, like maybe they had been divorced but had a child and had a relationship with someone else afterward that became like apparent for their child and that when that relationship and id like what that meant for there,
relationships with each other and their family unit that had existed like yeah. It's complicated thing right, the mixed the blending. In answer Duration of families creates some very, very specifically odd tensions than earth our give em because everybody involved has loved one another at some point presumably, if they have reached a point of argument where they feel that they don't want to be around them. Person any more, there is so much depth of hurt feeling that, like I think it's possible to untangle any logic out of it. We can't figure it out, so I I think probably there is a tendency on some people's part, two sort of vilify your sound in all of them be like the terrible mother, but clearly she and her daughter had a very volatile relationship anyway. You know they, but it heads now and again, and she probably felt very hurt by the whole thing.
Fell for sure. It is worth remembering that her son in law did pull a gun on her, like that. There are factors in their lot and the other thing that I we talked about a good bit in the episode, but I did he'll bears repeating- is the role of men. So in your sons, life he kind of gets eclipsed by Chopin, because he was famous, but she couldn't have done all that shit it in her later years. Without him dad there's just no way she could have accomplished as much writing in and managed her life as well as she did without this person, who kind of just silently took care of her and and did everything she needed so that she could just pursue her artistic endeavours. Get one of the things that interesting to me about Is that a lot of in a lot of cases when there is male author or music
in or artist or whatever, who has a way for a girlfriend or some other woman who is making it possible for him to do that. Work a lot of times that just sort of passes without comment yeah, but like not so much the case with shores on, because the gender was yeah different yeah. It's one of those things. I think it's easy for people to forget that in a relationship like that were one person is, is pursuing. Creative endeavours are, or just you know, leads a very demanding life. And the other person is maybe you know running house in her like that- is serious labour to manage all of the day to day affairs of a person who is like that. So I I hated. It goes unsung for anybody, yet it is also used
in, like you said in the case of Georgia, because probably at her Nathan hundreds, there were not a lot of cases like that. We're not as many now where the man would be like. No, no, I will I will just take care of you and beer be you're at another. He could be categorized as her muse, but there You know be the beer support system. I got you yeah you, you hear a lot more about, like prolific women writers, you hear a lot more about once who were single for most of their lives. Like that's, that's been a common theme in previous episodes. You don't hear as many historical stories about supportive male partners who made their work the made their work possible. Yeah, I mean it's very telling that when her son was lake, he's gotta leave just like our right
yeah, don't wear them. It's interesting to me that that was the the choice they went with, rather than like digging in fighting over now Mrs Figueiredo. Both leave us go yeah sure sound. Who does it want aware? Frock coat, I just don't even know yards there was a meme floating around. I think twitter at some point recently that was like what is your very specific fiction. Trope at mine was like woman writer who lives in defiance of the norms expected because of heard centre, which has just been like I've research, several episodes for the share that then, along that theme. But the sun was yours: yeah because she did live so large she's is a fascinating creature. Yeah, I suspect, should be great fun to hang out with. Am I just man I think, have to admire her hustle like the fact that she would be
entertaining viable finish, a party like three or four in the morning you be like. Well, I gotta go right. May twenty pages for the date what's guides, I can't as someone who has done national novel writing month. I think five times the idea of meaning maintaining like that level of productivity just forever decades, yeah yeah, not even down to where you go for reality. I get exhaust in writing. An episode of this show every I can't imagine doing twenty pages, day every day and as a consequence, she in some ways felt while other people lauded her. As being a genius. I mean Balzac talked about lake she's. The best writer living in anybody that doesn't recognise that is an idiot but sheet Just thought, like I'm just grinding man, I'm not even sure, didn't think she was making our she just that she was making commercially accessible content for people because she had to keep
supporting all of the people in her life that that she was paying for their support, and so she didn't she was a precious about her writing at all. It seems right just churning out says she didn't think of herself in them. That way of, like I'm, a homogeneous and gas making this a me, so I'm just make stuff that I got a cell make money. She was all hustle gap, as are other episode this week, a bit of a gear shift, celeb total she affirmed that, because it was a six impossible episodes, folks who really have been listening to the show for a long time and love. Those had remarked that it had been a while, since we had done a six impossible episodes, but our lives show in Gettysburg last summer was like six impossible episodes in disguise. It was a hundred percent researched and written in the same way as six impossible episodes are, but I didn't call it that, because I
think people walking down the street and Gettysburg who saw it on the like. The poster would know without her sand rain so as to call it that the way this when came about two things happen, one is because I cannot add. I had thought that this year was the fiftieth anniversary of the Greensborough lunch counter citizens, it's the sixtieth, but I had flagged that as an episode like with it. In my counter and big capital letters like by February twenty Twenty do this thing and then I was like. Oh, it's actually the sixtieth that still find that if the signal but like I had had that written by pencilled end for months and months- and we were
in Washington DC last year for a show at the National gallery of art, and whenever I am in Washington D C. If I have time I try to get to a museum, usually one of the Smithsonian museums, that's usually convenience where we are, but it depends this time I went to the Museum of the American Indian and one of the things that I saw was a brief thing about the fish ends, and when I was like all, we should totally doing episode about that and when I got back to my desk, as I was doing my preliminary search on things, I was like. Oh, I M not sure if this will be enough for a whole absurd, and my was like. Oh, what if it were a companion piece to the Greensborough lunch Counter thing, and so we could have the Greensborough lunch counter other sit in Movement episode and then this six impossible episodes
very easily found the other five things to go in the six impossible episodes. And then, when I got into a more thorough research about it, I was like. Ok, this fish in movement could have been a whole episode by them easily, but at that point I was too far into it to be able to walk back, especially the the law
no angles of olive it like there were so many court cases, and so much going on in terms of legal arguments are taking things to court like that could have been an episode on his own, but at the same time we ve got it somewhat covered in the six impossible episodes. Now that particular segment of that episode was delightful to me. Only in that the subject matter is difficult because it really always sucks set talk about, and it examined the ways that indigenous peoples have been treated so poorly, but because it happened in the Pacific Northwest. Where I lived as a kid, I did not struggle with all of the native names like. I would normally
like. I could see you all up, because I live there and snobbish very, very natural to me. That was that part of it was nice. Yeah yeah, I am, I said, is an episode, but by I really did I got so angry and I know there are still people living in the area who feel like. There is an unearned level of privilege going on, rather than it being. These are literally fishing rights that were guaranteed by treaty all the way back in the nineteenth century. Like I know there are still people who were pure angry about it and they may write to us. I don't have a lot. I was so frustrated by so many of the arguments that were made by the sport fishing community. During all of that made me really really I I don't think I don't know if I have anything else to add about this particular six impossible episodes and I will say we we have had
many many requests over the years for us to talk about various things related to the AIDS epidemic and we have both been a little a little trepidation about it, because we are both lost feeble and I remember you talked about how upsetting this was remember, reading through that music, but I can handle it. I could not handle it now. We we had a lot of sin starts. We had a lot of stuff, I had an acquaintance, and this has been recently like. I had an acquaintance who had survived the height of the 80s and then and much more recent years lost his job lost. His insurance lost access to his HIV medication.
And was so ashamed about being HIV positive, that he didn't tell anyone and nobody knew that anything was the matter until he was in the hospital with opportunistic infections and I'm still so angry that he died that any time I try to talk about it. It like just viscerally infuriates me, which makes it really difficult of record even like a one sixth of an episode on the subject. Yeah I mean I lost a very beloved dance teacher. Several friends when I was in. college. You know how many been on like the theater and art seen a lot. There were definitely coming up in the late 80s and you know I would get in my car and drive to grown up places and make grown up friends. So I I have had a lot of friends that work just older enough than me that I saw
probably more than the average teenager in the ladys of people who were struggling and dying as a consequence of some Is this slow downs that were being protested in in the act of movement and continue be in some other things too. That lake. I am glad that you specifically called out that this is something that is ongoing and that act up his doing these. These protests, even today to be like this is not history. There are still people living with AIDS today that need supportive assistance that need additional education. I mean we ve done so much in the medical community in some ways? But in other ways there is still this now there's almost like a weird second wave of stigma of like I thought I thought we fix that now, like among people prettily that did not grow up in in the eightys there I mean I do AIDS walk every single year and have for. I know how many years and its lake.
There are still people telling their stories about how they you know, contracted HIV through a variety of is that they were even aware of you know where possible at the time, because there is a gap in education in somewhere, because people think it's a historical event and not an ongoing thing, but also there are still people that are are thriving in living with HIV and but they still need support in some ways. So I it is a cause, very meaning, dear to my heart, constantly very hard sack of others uglier. We part of our history. We em we stopped more times and that one sixth of this episode, then I think we ve had to stop for anything else in recent months, yeah so anyway. That's also why, when I I'd, I didn't do that episode and strictly chronological order, because I didn't want that to be the note that we ended on, even though it was really. I really am
wouldn't note- I didn't want it to be so early in the episode, because I didn't want it to be overshadowed, and I didn't want it to be the last thing that we talked about, because I wanted to end on a note that did not feel quite as devastating use that when India anyway, I think. That's that's what we have to talk about today. So if you'd like to write to us about this or any other plant, castrate history, podcast, Iheart radio, dot com view of sent us something to the other old email address recently, we probably got that. Do we just aren't able to reply to everyone TAT frequently so that our email address Rasa Oliver Social media missed in history? Is our Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest and Instagram? Am you can subscribe our show on Apple pie, cast by her radio up anywhere else to get Pugwash Stuffy missed an historical ass to the production of a heart radios. Housetop works for more upon hats from radio busy by her radio apple pie, gas or wherever you are
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