Herschel managed to break the barrier of women in scientific fields far earlier than you might suspect, in part because of her association with her brother, and in equal measure due to her steadfast dedication to her work. Read the show notes here.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This episode of stuff. You miss than history classes, brought to you by the travel store. I have always wanted to go to Alaska so much, and now I'm finally getting too and so is Holly, and so can you Holly and I will be aboard celebrity crews lines departing from Seattle on July, tenth, twenty twenty we're gonna see some amazing ports in Alaska, including Skagway catch. A cannon Juno were also planning a couple of private events on board just for our listeners. So please join us on this exciting crews to Alaska on July, tenth call the travel store at one eight hundred, seven, seven, seven, sixty five, forty, that's eight hundred seven, seven, seven, sixty five, forty or
I've gone to stuff. You missed crews, dot com, I love sports and I love my wife. I will destroy you. We haven't even started you if you're the type, a fan who loves to debate Jordan versus Leubronn, Lambeau versus soldier field, or even the sand lot verses. Major league. You will love listening to our podcast. The greatest we are some of our favorite comedian friend and celebrities coming constructively argue everything within the world of sport, with my commuting and sports frenetic life, Megan gaily and my hilarious writer and comedian husband siege. I tell it on out to listen and follow the greatest. I heard radio apple politics or wherever you listen to point. well continue stuff. You missed in history class from house works, tat come onto the market, has Tracy Wilson,
and today is for me a astronomy day, because I love astronomy I will talk about space and all things astronomical, so it's a special it my wheel housewives, but also we're talking about a woman astronomer who really managed to break the barrier of women in scientific fields. way or than you might anticipate in part, because she was working alongside her brother and that sort of gave her entry into the world of science in astronomy, and in equal measure, though it was due to her really steadfast dedication to her work. She was a very known, woman and completely focused and as a consequence, she has achieved a great deal. So we are talking about Caroline Lucretia Herschel, who born on March, sixteenth of seventeen fifty and she was born in Hanover Germany, her parent, Your honor ills, Morton and Isaac, Herschel and
Caroline, was born. The herschels were already in their eighteenth here of marriage, so they had already had a pretty large family. They ended up here, a total of ten children and Caroline was the eighth of them, although for their children, did not live past early childhood according to family records. The her family line had actually come from Marine, where they left due to their protestant believes. In the end it settling in Saxony, Isaac was a musician and he played in a military regiment. He educated his sons in music whenever he was home and it during these lessons, but Caroline older brother, William, started to show some natural gifts for music. He was only musically talented, but he was also extremely smart and very quick to learn and other areas of study, also in one day, I feel like I should point out. I didn't included in the notes when I said that the he was the eyes
able to educate children when he was home. Being a military musician in this context is not much of an easy ride, as you may think, these men had to travel with that They were in the trenches with the troops they they were really part of a functioning active military. It wasn't like they just showed up to play trumpet before things happened, so he really was traveling alot end. Why William was urged into a musical career because of his natural proclivity that exhibited itself very early on Caroline, really when she looked back at their childhood dimensions it in her memoirs and in letters that if he had been to pursue other interests other than music. His genius stronger. You really would have been revealed much earlier and in her memoirs she mentions that wow her father Isaac, was indeed devoted to music. He too was all
interested in the stars and here's a quick excerpt from one of her memories from childhood says my was a great admirer of astronomy and had some knowledge of that science, for I remember, taking me on a clear frosty night into the street, to make me acquainted with several of the most beautiful constellations after we gazing at a comment which was then visible- and I well remember with what delight he used to assist my brother, William in his various control is in the pursuit of his philosophical studies among men it was a neatly turned for inch globe upon which the equator and ecliptic were engraved by my brother, Caroline was also very attached to her brother, William, who was twelve years older than she was from the time she was really very young. Yes, she speaks of him. So lovingly and with great admiration, in her memoirs, it's it's for me, too high debt. If I went because my siblings are all much older than me- and I look at them in such a pretty good, my older sister, almost as apparent figure
And it's a very similar relationship that she had with William, especially because Isaac traveled, so much and while Isaac wanted his children to learn music in french and philosophy, particularly all children, his wife and I had a really much more strict and sensible path in mind for Caroline, when she was quite young, became Carolines job to knit all of the socks and stockings for her brothers and the male, siblings or the faintly pursued their musical careers Caroline learned how to care for a home. She really did not get the benefit of kind of the more philosophical education in seventeen. Sixty one Caroline got really veer, typhus fever and nearly killed her after she got better. It's like a really long time for her to regain her strength and counted having to crawl up and down stairs on all fours four months, because she was too weak to walk up and down them
so this illness also pretty significantly stunted Carolines growth. She was extremely diminutive, even when she was in her adulthood and not going any marsh- was less than five feet tall. Email. It left heard not particularly pleasing to the eye in their opinion, and so her appearance sort of came to this conclude But she was never really gonna have any marriage prospects and so she should the hope for a career as a scullery maidenly them that was, they are trying to be very practical, It sounds really rough for apparent to do particularly in to the modern ear it will be. No children are encouraged to really follow their dreams and pursue their hearts desires. But Since then. This meant that Carolines mother, Anna, basically double down on her insistence that her totter really needed to learning useful skills and leave of the mind to her brothers and the Seventeen Sixty is Carolines brother, William, travelled to England to pursue work as a music teacher and organised after he deserved
his position with the Hanover. Guards even well but time in various towns travelling far away people. The family was really hoping that he would come back to hand over to settle down and he did can appearance back in Germany in seventeen sixty four, but it was really more than anything else, just to tell the family that he was coming back to live. He was moving the England permanently and care, mine's memoir details. This is a time of joy. union, but also sadness that she was too busy with scullery work and with her first union to really see him and this bitter sweet knowledge, they all shared that it would likely be quite some time before any one in the family was gonna, see him again in this particular area part of her memoirs. She is really extremely clear and does not hide the fact that he is her very favorite brother. She calls him her dearest other. So when William laughed and as we mentioned it conflicted with her,
communion. She was really heart broke in that her. By was cut short, and so she wrote this about his departure, its effect on shattered nerves. I will not attempt to describe Norway I felt for days and weeks after I wish it were possible to say what I wished to say without feeling a new that feverish wretchedness which occur made by walk in the afternoon with some of my school companions and my black silk dress and bouquets artificial flowers, the same which had served sister on her bridle day. I could think of nothing In that on my return, I should find nobody, but my disconsolate, father and mother. So sad, she really the door? Her brother- and you know he was like a ray of sunshine when he came home and knowing that he was gone, really broke her heart and that the following August, Father Isaac had a seizure which left his right side, almost entirely paralyzed, and so
inability to play or teach music at the level that he once had, which had been his great joy and the various prob. Several of his children were having in their lives. You know again, Caroline was one of many, and there were a number of what's happening in the family and the fact that he had kind of as a consequence being left with this paralysis. He could, do this thing that they have been doing, which was teaching Caroline on the sly from her mother. You know what her mother was not around. He would secretly be like come on I'll teach you a little bit of music. They just couldn't went off anymore with his infirm state and all of this sort of conspired to leave this once boisterous man, burly quite depressed and suffering. In his final several years, he ended up dying on March twenty six of seventeen sixty seven welcome one welcome all come you do yours and marchers to the beat of any drum at Starbucks. We
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did get some lessons from the daughter of a family in the same house with the herschels when she was a teenager, her friend die consumption which shut yet another door for education for Caroline and she just really abhorred thought of life is a maid. She really really wanted intellectual and creative stimulation she was trying to figure out how should get a slightly higher position like that. Governess quote where the What of a knowledge of french would be no objection. Yeah. She knew she was not stupid and let you thirdly, bright, but that she hadn't had all the educational opportunities that would really prepare her for a much better. Should an enemy, but she was just trying to think sort of practically about. Ok. What could I do that's better than this? She did at one point manage to convince her mother and her brothers after her father died that she should be sent for a short time school to learn millinery in sewing and
scribes. This is a very happy time. Although her brothers were very clear that they were sending her just ass, she could make things for herself that this is not going to be a professional stepping stone at all. once she returned home. However, from this time away where she was learning new things in meeting new people, she really just fell back into the same patterns of you, know constant chores and schedule and drudgery that she despised that changed with the family got a letter from William in the fall of seventeen. Seventy wine in this letter we propose that Caroline come to live with him and service has cast housekeeper and also as a singer to accompany him in concerts. He prepared the two year trial and said that if it didn't work out, he would send her back and Caroline was so super excited by this prospect that, even before it was all approved by her mother and the rest of the family, she
started to practice singing and secrets of it William had actually asked another of their brothers, who is a musically skilled, the tutor her, but there were some skipped, siblings skirmishes. That really mean that fall apart. Her brother kind of made fun of her and she didn't like it to suit just practicing. round, and she also it is Internally, the groundwork so that they would have no excuse to keep her she knitted enough socks and stockings, so the whole family would be covered for at least two years. Shoes We try to make it as easy as possible to make her case to go. In the end, when William went to Germany to get Caroline, he also gave their mother a small and knew it he wishes used to hire some help to replace Carolines work around the house. We, Emily Orient effect losing a made as well. So I feel like. I should note that, while Caroline really hated the idea of being a maid, she didn't see
hate her mother, and this could just be one of those cases of wording, but when she talks about leaving Hanover. She refers to her is her dear mother and the difficulty of leaving her, so I think she did her mother in and have no positive feelings for her as much as she sort of hated the ideas that her mother had for her so Caroline and William, set out for England together and in Carolines memoirs. She describes this trip at great length and with lots of details and talks about all the stages of the journey and all the trials and discomfort that they often encountered because travel was extremely difficult, journal. On the other hand, just says August. Sixteen seventeen seventy to set off returned to England in company with my sister. That's cool me up with her in her more it was it so funny so
once Caroline and William got to England. Caroline did indeed learn to sing and she developed her soprano voice, so she could accompany her organist brother performances chose. It took two or three lessons a day from her brother, because remember at this point he was pretty successful. Music teacher but that was not the only thing that William was up to at bath. While he was festival in music. He'd already turned his interest to science. He astronomy students, as well as music students, and he had been writing scientific papers for the bath philosophical society. There's part of me that wonders if this is not why he was like I'm never coming back to German, don't like, he knew he would be kind of into the music courier there and he had already started to toy with this really significant career change and Caroline arrived in the midst of William kind of making this transition in his life and so for her going from alive of repetition and predictability and menial duties
to one of assisting her whirlwind brother was a huge change for this, and who is only twenty two at the time She was suddenly responsible for the budget of the household and taking care of trips to the market and she performed with her brother featured singer often, and she parry. I also had a lot of arguments with her brothers hired servant. She did not speak very well of that. Women in her letter should remember She was also initially pretty homesick. Her English wasn't good enough to bond with anyone else and bath, and her brother was incredibly busy. Hers Stir had been left a widow with six children and Caroline also felt badly, but there wasn't anything she could do to help, but on the other side You know, while she is in a whirlwind, crazy world, the learned that she had yearn for back in Germany but had been denied, was certainly abundant in England, she was mentally simulated. At all times she had to learn about keeping as we were saying she was learning English as quickly as she could
and she had to learn a lot more about music in pretty short order. Is this isolation of this transition and her homesickness really like bonded her to William more than ever. Although she really didn't get as much of his time and attention is, she wished because he had so many students to see in addition to his extracurricular studies in astronomy, he was making a really good name for herself. As a singer, though, she was approached by other music companies to perform with them, but she declared same as we really needed to stay with her brother and his work and his William turned his attention progressively more and more to astronomy, Caroline followed suit, and she assisted her brother in the assembling of telescopes and analyzing, the Heavens, and we could do a whole podcast just about William and sort of how his music to astronomy transition happened said. I want people to think I'm just leaving that out, but
eventually the focus here, but while she's doing all of this and helping him assemble things and polishing this mirror. She ended up learning a great deal about astronomy herself. Will you is credited with discovering Uranus in seventeen eighty one, while he was actually searching for double stars incident the planet was initially named. George or the Georgian star after the king of English- which sounds a lot more majestic than just calling a star George the return for his work, William Herschel was invited and appointed to the position of court astronomer for King George, the third this episode of stuff you missed in history class is brought to you by W W, formerly wait. Watchers they have launched a new might be to be programme as their most groundbreaking and customize programme. Ever I joined Debbie W because I was really looking for something that was going to help encourage me to make healthier eating choices. They have really done that when you join the Mai W W Program, you will take a personal assessment, it
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Taco Bell podcast. This is on celebrity cruises. This is going to be a luxurious experience, full of wonderful amenities and amazing food. I've been on several cruises in my lifetime. They have all been just wonderful experiences, so please join us on an exciting cruise to Alaska on July, tenth call the travel store at one eight hundred, seven hundred and seventy seven six thousand five hundred and forty that's eight hundred. Seven hundred and seventy seven six thousand five hundred and forty or log onto stuff you missed cruise dot com And this new appointment meant that the Herschels had to move closer to Windsor careful and while you making less money is the royal astronomer than he had as a musician and teacher. William Herschel, was now making enough that he didn't have to kind of have this double career situation, so he could focus entirely on his scientific endeavours.
and William use this new position to build a bigger telescope and he launched a long term survey of the sky that would turn into a project that really ran two decades, initially as he would observe, heavenly bodies through his telescope? He was up on this matter He would call them out to Caroline who would be down on the ground and she would carefully record everything that he said. So he really trusted her to keep track of everything that they were witnessing an eye. a fine as their list got bigger, became more detailed, took on the name New General catalogue. This name persist, in codify form today, as the He objects are still identified by their engines, z, number and well. You must They ve Caroline her own. What he called her quote: seven foot newtonian sweeper, and this was a telescope that she would often used to observe the night sky just on her own or when she was filled,
four William. While he was traveling, so they wouldn't have any gaps in their project on February, twenty, six, those eighteen, eighty three: she identify an open cluster which is on the record as NBC twenty three sixty the same, Ere she observed and recorded envy two fifty three also it is the sculptor Galaxy and one of her to fame is that she was the first woman credited with discovering a comet, so on August, first and again on following knights of seventeen eighty six saw object. There was moving across the night sky and she identified it is a comment and she immediately sent word by mail to all of their fellow astronomer. about her discovery in the hopes that they too would daddy it. She wanted to share this information as rapidly as possible. After the cut Discovery William, who was the kings astronomer lobby for his assistant, Caroline to be paid for her work. This made her
first woman to actually be paid as a professional scientists in great Britain and We will go on to discover a total of eight comments in a little longer than the decade following that. First comment: identification and this is happening during a sort of comic craze that was happening in post, enlightenment, Georgian England, so it Caroline a certain degree of celebrity, although, as a woman astronomer, which was you know, certainly an odd duck for the times, sometimes lampooned in comics just ass. She was so being locked. It is something of a visionary in, seventeen eighty six William started courting a wealthy widow neighbour, Mary Bernie Pit, William married her in seventeen. Eighty eight is partnership with Caroline changed really considerably and became somewhat strained. The old duties that Caroline have been taking. Care of. All of this time were passed, two Williams bride and the sister was then freed up.
Sue, her astronomy work full time and this certainly sound. good thing she was likely much worse, about the astronomy but the loss control and her sense of place in her brothers, life really affected, Caroline, quite deeply after see team years living and working with William Caroline move to her own lodgings and he started having to go to his place to work. he no longer had keys to the home were to be observatory and we actually don't Oh exactly what Carolines feelings were at this time there is actually a ten year gap in her personal journals from seventeen. Eighty eight, seventeen. Ninety eight those documents were destroyed. There are journals whose ripped out pages when her personal notes, a narrative start up again near the end of the century. She speaks of her sister in law, who, by all accounts, was a really. the one amiable woman. Everyone really liked her with a great of kindness and the two did eventually become very close, but I think it was
ride for those ten years. She probably wrote some things down. She did not want to be kept on record ten years were still spent working both with her brother and on her own and this Caroline was discovering her many comments that she was keeping records of her work. The seven comments which followed the first were observed and identified in December seventeen. Eighty eight JANET seventeen. Ninety April, one ninety December, and ninety one October. One thousand. Ninety, two November, Seventeen. Ninety five, an August, seventeen, ninety seven and first royal astronomer of England, who is named John Flamsteed had compiled in existing star catalogue in the late. Sixteen hundreds and early seventeen hundreds and so in it can using this new free time, line had it her disposal after her brothers, marriage to search for comments
also used it to cross index the Flamsteed Catalogue with the data that she and William had compiled, and she able to add more than five hundred additional stars to the existing record as a consequence will died in eighteen, twenty two and after her brother was gone. Caroline went back to Germany, where she continued her work entirely on her own so on her own after William Staff, and also working with her nephew, who was also an astronomer, Carolyn catalogued, nebulae alone. Your brother Caroline was instrumental in expanding the number of known stark lesters for one hundred to two thousand five hundred and those are rough numbers. It's me no more but she went on to you many many accolades as she age she wanted. Metal from the royal astronomical society in eighteen, twenty eight for her work in nebulae in eighteen. Thirty, two,
the king of Denmark, honoured her with a medal for her work. She made an honorary member of the royal society in eighteen, thirty, five and she actually shared the honour of being the first woman to be named. An honorary member of society with Mary Summer who also worked in astronomy, and she was also in this honorary membership the same year in eighteen, thirty eight she was made. A member of the Royal Irish Academy in eighty four six. She was given the gold medal for science by the king of pressure, Caroline wrote her last entry in her day book in September of eighteen, forty five m. winter of eighteen, forty, seven eighteen, forty eight Caroline became with Ill as the cold of the season swept in. She initially
He used a neighbor friends offer to move to her bed to a warmer room than it existed in, and she was already an elderly woman and somewhat frail at this point and as a consequence of union staying in this cold with a compromise immune system already, she does or insecure. She did eventually allowed him to meet her bad and, whilst he rallied now it again, she never really recovered Spirit remained until the end, though, and in a letter from the same bed moving friend to Carolines nephew John, it's Europe, did that when a male friends and his love and hopes that Carol would soon be well enough for him to visit and give her a kiss ass, he had in her previous birthday. She replied by Spain, tell the general that I have not tasted anything. I liked so well. I just love that she kind of was a little thirty, even at the very end that was very sweet and the letter in which that story was related to John was dated the January sixth of eighteen. Forty eight
airline die just three days later on January ninth shoes. Ninety seven, at the time a letter written by Caroline needs to a cousin reads, I felt almost two cents. So awful relief at the death of my aunt and the but now the unquiet heart was it rest, but she had of love to give was concentrated on her beloved brother at his death. She felt herself alone. An Caroline wrote her own tombstone inscription and it reads the eyes Who is glorified here below turned to the starry heavens? She had pragmatically made all of the arrangements for her burial and her feet. years before her death so and she passed. It was basically like nope everything's taken care of already, because she didn't want to burden her nephew or any of her other relatives with dealing with it. She RO I am nothing. I have nothing all, I am all I know I owe to my brother. I am only the two
which he seeks to his use. A well trained puppy dog would have done as much for some people interpret this as devotion to establishing and others have read it read it almost as resentful the way If a woman, whose bound by obligation to do this, because her brother was her benefactor and told her to be given, it her obvious love for astronomy and the work they do together. It seems more in line with the thinking of someone who wishes to brush away praise and credit and instead focus the spotlight on someone else. you'll see, see generally uncomfortable with kind of talking about herself in any sort of personal way. Or you know, with accolades. She was always very quick to kind of shrugged them off, there's a really lovely intro written in her memoirs and about her, and it says her own right elections go back to the great earthquake of Lisbon. She lives through the American, more the old french Revolution, the right
file of Napoleon and all manner of lesser events in wars. She saw all the improvement and inventions from the lumbering post wagon, in which she made her first journey from Hanover to the railroads and electric telegraphs, which have intersected all Europe for, Lived well down into the reign of Victoria, but her work of my in the Heavens, with her brother engrossed. All her thoughts and she's firstly mentions any public events. Several comments. Are after her, including thirty five p hersel regulate as lunar crater, see Herschel at an asteroid called Lucretia, which is her middle name, One of Williams, telescopes, is on display. The Amber planetarium in Chicago and another is on display at Cambridge, and there are several other pieces of telescopes at various observatories in museums throughout the World
the Herschel Museum of Astronomy now stands at nineteen new King Street and bath, and that is where William and Caroline live together and I would love to go visit said Tracy. Let's see that ok forget that it such an interesting story, because she really she's often called the Cinderella of astronomy, can she started to sort of scullery made path and then ended up? really a luminary in her fields, especially bizarre when you consider that, on top of the fact that she was a woman at a time when men were really running the show in terms of science I love it so much. They also have solicitor male. I do have two pieces. One is a pronunciation correction. That kind of made me laugh, then this is from our laws, Jeremy and he says I just moved to National Tennessee, but grew up in South Eastern Missouri area. It is kind of close to Memphis and he's were referring to our s, assault on Amazon
He said to hear you mention that the Sultana stopped in Cairo and he says the locals pronouncing Cairo Illinois was interesting. The small in southern illinois- has a fascinating history within itself. It was once a bustle, diversity that was blessed with prosperity search by possible. Were activities now, however, an extremely poor and run down city, which is unfortunate because of all its history, which is super instinct he so he corrected translation. Unclear row and I am also worried about the same thing. That's it things that will always be super hard for me for people that don't know Atlanta. We have a street here which he would look at him think was positively all and they call it constantly and it makes me crazy, so apologies to Cairo. I did not mean to slurry your name, and we also have one from our listener Heather, which is in relation to our Francis questioner, Lee episode, she's alive
Creasy in Hawaii, I M a crime scene investigator in Nevada. You might be interested to know that France's contributions are fascinating history within itself, it was once a bustling river city that was blessed with prosperity searched by possible work Now, however, it's an extremely poor and run down city, which is unfortunate because of olives. crime scene references cover the contributions of all its history, which is, I might be pronouncing, so he corrected. I pronunciation French it up, this Galton and others a man as a The crime scene investigator. It was refreshing to hear about women's contributions to my field. Thank you for the episode. I would love to hear more episode them owing crime, scene investigations or forensics me to you. I love that stuff. so that is cool Heather. Your job has to be fascinating, that I could hack it, but I'm very interested in it
if you would like Europe to you, as you can certainly do so, and that email address is history. Podcasting housetop works, dot. Com you're probably used to it by now, but that is a slight change from our previous address. You can also connect with us at Facebook, backup, Slash missed in history on twitter atmosphere, history at mister, history that word icon: com on pinterest dot com. Mr history, you can visit us at our website which is missed in history, dot com. We have got you history covered if he would like to learn a little bit more about topic related to today's episode, you can go to your parent website. House have worked typing it's in the search bar and you will get an article called how comets work and you can learn a little bit more about these heavenly bodies that Caroline Herschel was so instrumental in studying
You can learn about comments or almost anything else your brain could think about if you visit arpanet fight, which is how to com more on this and thousands of other topic House up, works, this episode is brought to you by mulatto cookies. Look sometimes that long, Zen yoga classes, just not in the card, so many a cookie is peppered farm. Olano believes you should make some time for yourself once in a while. I know I have a particular space in my sewing room that I like to just take a few minutes. Every day I sit there. I think about things. It's kind of like meditation and munching at the same time, yummy beautiful cookie flavour. It makes it luxurious and delightful and I always feel recharge. Mulatto cookies.
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