Once Manning became a professional dancer and choreographer, his work took him all over the world. After WWII derailed his swing dancing, he had a hard time returning to a world where musical tastes had changed. Read the show notes here.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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on the road to somewhere. We talk about all of it, getting really honest and we definitely laugh our way through it. That's the big, If this journey I'm LISA. And I'm Joe Herzog join us as we navigate our own big life changes honour, podcast, the road to somewhere, listen to them. somewhere on the I hurt app up on apple podcast or work, You got your podcast continued Dorothy missed in history from how it works and welcomed the pipe I'm Holly fry the. We are picking up the second half of our story Frankly, Manning view is one of the most prominent figures in the world.
Of Lindy Hop this started out as a hobby, but then became his career starting in nineteen. Thirty, six frankie maiming became a professional dancer and choreographer with Whitey Lindy hoppers. This group performed at the Alhambra Theatre as partner reviews. They also toured and they danced for films. One of the places they performed was at the cotton club, and this was a white only establishment that had mostly black entertainers. There is known for hosting some of the best and most influential jazz performers that existed at the time. The lady hoppers danced with swing bans like count basing cab callaway and even though they ve done plenty of performing before that performing at the cotton club made Frankie feel like a real dancer.
just because the establishment had a certain level of prestige and, at the same time, Frankie also started to resent its most of the time. The windy hoppers did not have top billing, they were lesser acts and the stars often looked down on them, so he made up his mind to change people's attitudes about Lindy, hop and stop thinking of the dancers as raggedy. He started dressing immaculately in encouraging his fellow dancers to do the same as that fame, spread their tours, took them farther and farther from New York as well Storing all around the United States in nineteen thirty seven, the cotton club show went to Europe to France and England than it is. Their regular performances. They gave a royal command performance for King George, the sixth and the future, Queen Elizabeth Second
according to his autobiography when she got to him in the receiving line, the extended her hands to shake his, and he was so flustered by this gesture that he curtsied to her instead of Boeing. That makes me wonder what kind of hilarious comments were made on the royal further that game after the fact word and that there were from his point of There were running jokes about that afterward, I'm sure it is not the first time someone had awkwardly or made an embarrassing gaff in front of her, and certainly it's happened many times since in nineteen thirty, eight Frankie in the troop toward Australia and New Zealand for a year where they performed a production called the Hollywood hotel review, and this was a major production and
very well received by both critics and audiences. The Lindy hop troop were the only black members of the cast Serious Australia and New Zealand Tour, and they saw very few other people of african descent. While on the tour, So, while Frankie wrote of being treated very warmly and Australia, he also wrote that he saw Australia's aboriginal people being treated the same way. The black people were back home in the United States and after they got back he and why these Lindy hoppers performed in the nineteen, thirty nine worlds, fair, but frankly did so for a day. The ten and twelve show per day schedule just too much. I think this is the only time that he was like a cat. That's all It shows the doing today, especially if you're doing overheads physical stuff, yeah yeah, from there, though, he in the tree performed illegal broadway production swinging in a dream which is it
version of a midsummer night's dream in nineteen, thirty nine, I wish there were. Tribal video of this. If there is, maybe someone will tell us about it, because that's incredible to me that they also formed radius, that music hall in the film radio city reels and in the film held open they toward with. We urge ass great, like Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald and Bilbil Jungles Robinson in the late nineteenth thirties Frankie started trying to break away from the gender dynamics. They were part of the hop at the time as well as ballroom dates in general, because mailed answers did the lead parts and female dancers followed their direction. Male dancers got all of the acclaim and also top billing with a female. The others were just as good as the mail. The answers they just had a different skills said so frankly started actually teaching his female partners to lead steps that
it? Do them together for a while why these Lindy hoppers, where the headliners at the club Alabama and they were such a big broad at the club, built a whole show around them which Frankie staged? This was a all departure from being thought of it. The raggedy sling dancers that the rest of the show looked down on this was a huge departure from being the raggedy. They answers that the rest of the performers looked down on that. We talked about earlier in the show about a month into their run. Frankie got a telegram from Herbert Whitey White who did answered the dance troop had been named after seeing that they ve been contracted to go on a tour in South America they were once again very well received by the audience in Rio, although the audience shouts were more sounded like booing in English, so there is some confusion, it's so well, though, at their original six week run that it was extended and expanded the tour around South America,
a couple of days into all this Japan bombed, Pearl Harbor and the United States entered world were to this meant that Frankie and the rest, troop wound up stranded in Rio. Four months they needed to get a commercial flight back home. That seats were really hard to come by, because all the other Americans in that hemisphere were also trying to get back home. Their trip, eventually required bribery and they got back to United States after ten months of being away, they were so broke after me, stranded and after their bribery that they had to do to get back home, but they had to work in Florida to be able to afford to back to New York at all and while they were still in Florida trim and earn this money just to get back to New York, Frankie's mother wrote him and let him know that he had actually been drafted, we'll get to that. After a quick break forward for
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have legitimately needed that money to get everyone home to safety. They only work together a couple of times afterward. After joining the United States Army Frankie served in New Guinea, the Philippines and Japan. He spent the very few pages in his Otto talking about his time in the army, but in them he talks about facing racism, horrific experiences while deployed in occasionally performing the USA, when they ask for soldiers to join the show he and actually tried to get into the special services, which is where some of the biggest name entertainers served. But he apparently didn't have the right connections or enough name. Recognition and wanted to join the army at all because he knew he wouldn't be able to dance anymore as long as he was there and after hearing, to civilian life and nineteen forty six. It turned out to be a lot harder to return to his former work. The name
Musical tastes really changed after the war and the new style of music. Just work as suited to Lindy half as gas and swing had been. He just couldn't get to feel bebop and rock and roll music that overtake jazz in the post war years. Although he founded a new troop, called the conquerors for several years and did still do some dancing in performing. link agents were much shorter and they were not nearly as lucrative as they had been in his prior career. He made a detour with other prominent names, including napkin, coal and Sammy Davis Jr, but it was much harder than it had been in the years before the war, the old ballroom started, declared their teams, their focus and one day, Frankie heard about an Arthur, Murray, dance school. It was teaching Lindy hot. He went there out of here we also need to see what it was like, and it wasn't advanced that he recognized at all eventually met Gloria Holloway, who would eventually become his wife you'd have to children with Gloria in a dish,
to another son who had been born in nineteen thirty two and he supported his family through a job at the post office. The Savoy ballroom in Harlem closed and nineteen fifty eight Frankie's. their died, and nineteen seventy five then Frankie and is in his wife, divorced and nineteen. Seventy six in the early nineteen eighties, a swing, dance revival started to Germany in Citys, around the United States, Leary Shops and Sandra Cameron invited a group of Lindy hoppers who had frequented the Savoy to their danced studio. The husband and wife team encourage those dancers to teach swing, thing to a new generation of dancers, Frank you into a couple ever unions, and while he thought it was nice to see, everyone really didn't think that swing dancing was making a comeback at that point. But then one day he got a call. a woman named Aaron Stevens, and she said that she and her dance partner had been studying
Lindy hopper our lives before his death in nineteen eighty five and she wanted to know if Frankie might work with the two of them when they were in New York and the upcoming trip, and at first he said no, but she was very persistent. So he finally agreed Frank: you watch the tea with him dance and you thought they. Any good. He said they have sole and he thought maybe he could help them get a little better. So this event sparked Anne Frank. manning the desire to teach Lindy hop to more people. By this point he was past the age of eighty frank, accredited. two of them with changing his life. So then he started to again, all over the world. This time, teaching, Lindy, hop and other swing era, dances and some of his students. learned by watching the old movies with Lily hop scenes? In them he taught people and he talk people how to teach. He also found work as a choreographer all over the world, including for EL, the Daily Dance theatre
today, nine he wanted Tony award for his choreography in the Broadway musical black and blue and ninety ninety one. He was asked to work on Spike Liese, Bio Pick of Malcolm X and at first said no because he was about to go out of town for a month, but they asked again when he returned from his travels. He won't have teaching the company helping, select the dancers and showing them some of the films Whitey Lindy hoppers, start in he later worked on a maid for tv movie called stopping at the Savoy he earned numerous awards and a claim for his work, and he continued to teach until very late in his life and he died on twenty seventh two thousand and nine at the age of ninety four, Wait. You may be asking yourself Tracy. Why did you sell it tell us that this was wedding episode and we're gonna talk about why that is after another brief word room sponsor
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three sixty with lifelong today and save twenty five percent or more of your first year go to Norton dot com, slash history, that's Norton, DOT, com, slash history for twenty five percent off, so we kicked there's two partner with a story about how people started asking us for a wedding episodes. After we put up a picture from her office Holiday Party on Facebook and Twitter and which Hollywood claiming over my engagement ring, and so he turned in. For that part, You might be wondering what all of this has to do with weddings and here's the answer. The van for our wedding was built in the nineteen twenties very fiance, and I have both learned six count swing dancing. I have also learned Charleston and Wendy Hop so we ve been talking about whether to have swing glancing at the wedding, but I have some hesitations about that and Typically, what I've been wrestling with is whether that feels like an appreciation and celebration of Wendy Hop or
creation of a culture that is mine. Now I know that Rich cultural appropriation at all means that there is people right now who are about to stop listening and start writing as an angry email, and if this describes you all I ask, is that you please listen to the rest of what we say before you start the angry typing warm up. Your fingers will be five one of the common man, exceptions about cultural appropriation is that people who argue against appropriation are saying that any time someone does something that came from another culture, its bad, and that is really not the case when you cultures come into contact with one another. There's inevitably gonna be an exchange of ideas of beliefs and practices and their eggs. Does have one culture influencing another in a positive way all over history. So it's not innately a bad thing. It does it come with that baggage inherently, but, as sometimes happens, is that a dominant culture,
Take something that a marginalized or disenfranchised culture created and then uses its and sometimes even profits from it, without ever having considered the implications of what is actually happening in the equation or to be more direct one culture that subjugating another culture takes that cultures, innovations and inventions as their own, and that is called appropriation, and that is what we're talking about here. So african american vernacular dance was developed and shared among black people, injured joints and went parties and volumes for decades and for decades as knowledge of these dances spread beyond black communities, white communities also adopted them as their own and ass. We talk
in part, one, these social dances were really important. Part of black culture and black culture was at this point the target of segregation, discrimination and extreme racism so to black communities. These dances were often really about social connections and community pride in having a venue for free and creative expression outside of all of the societal issues that they had to deal with all the time, and sometimes it even a form of political resistance, but many of the white people who later learned these dances were completely ignorant of all that history and meaning, and instead it seemed like a fun and popular thing to do. That is one hundred percent. My experience when I first started studying swing thing. Even during the Haiti of the swing era, the Lindy half that dominantly white audiences saw in motion, pictures and state shows was often a lot different from how people experienced it in a social setting. Sometimes these films and staves production
Were choreographed by long time, Lindy, hoppers themselves, but directors and other choreographers. He worked on these films allotted time. Toned back what would happen? to be a little more choreographed and a little less improvisational. And if you watch any of these films, you will probably notice that the dancers and musicians in the dance scenes are often dressed as maids and waiters and delivery, boys and other service staff and this basically is to give them a reason to be in the movie at all, because they don't have speaking roles with the other actors in the film. So there has to be something that makes their presence there make sense, and the thing is that they are in service jobs, This is not necessarily true of every movie. Only with a hasn't happened because some of them were basically movie versions of theatrical reveals that ones where there
Then we have seen in a film that has a story a lot of times. That story is, is a story about white people with white actors, but the thing is: suddenly a group of black people dressed for work, so sweet your advances, spread into white communities so thoroughly that for a lot of people, myself included thing the Charleston, up an image of a white flapper with Bob Hair and a street wasted dress, but labourers didn't and bent the Charleston black people did anger and resentment about white people, stealing something lacking created is a recurring theme in literature, from the Harlem Renaissance and beyond, and these are discussions that are continuing today recently, a minimalist Hamburg, the actors who played ruin the hunger Games and Macy Irving and sleepy hollow among other roles, released a Youtube video.
Why celebrities of reheating black culture more than they appreciated black people? It's really incredible video and we will link to it and they show notes and ties into this whole conversation of the windy, hop and at its partition early relevant now, because in the swing revival that started in the nineteen Eightys and Ninetys, this new generation of dancers was at least in the United States over white. From my own experience, apart from one south asian teacher. All of my swing teachers were white and the dancers that every dance venue where I dance were also overwhelmingly white, but here's another case of what- The question of whether windy hop is culturally appropriate iv is pretty nuanced in Frankie Manning's out of our, he writes over and over about the racism and discrimination that he experienced as a black dancer and a black person, but the linen. Revival, kept the dance from dying out then Frankie himself for more than a decade
his later life devoted himself to sharing this dance with as many people as possible. He found absolute joy in this dance and he wanted to share that joy from the introduction to his two thousand seven autobiography Cynthia Milman, who collaborated with him on it. Wrote quote as much as Frankie appreciates the new found recognition of his talent and accomplishments. By far his greatest greatest pleasure comes from the opportunity to share the dance he love so much with a new generation of enthusiasts young and old fashioned. How happy ultimately was about the swing revival? The verdict, as I haven't, decided to do, or whether to have swing dancing at my wedding, but I know Definitely can't do it unless my guests also learn something about its history too. So will we be giving some sort of history crib notes with our invites? If you decide you got back
like maybe we'll, have a little S day about Lindy Hop in people's widow gift bags. I don't know I don't know the youth there'd be further yeah there. There are definitely some cases where you can look at somebody's use of another culture and forget will lapse really gruesome, weird, and this is a case where the history of it is so long and there are seven different facets of it that it sets. I don't think, there's a very easy answer and if there is an easy answer than their pieces of it, that are not really be being examined about how especially how people who thought that this dance had died and was I got two participated in it again and share with their people when they are older, so the jury is still out. Will you share with our listener when you make this decision so well, although maybe I'm ok, I might
do it after the wedding, that's fair, because well, the whole subject of appropriation has so many pieces to it and it so like. If you are thoughtful about it. There are so many different things to consider, and I know from experience with our embarks that, regardless of what the decision is, there will be people who are unhappy about it and I prefer not to get hate mail about my wedding still after its Oprah until after it's over and it's interesting because you know more and more in recent years. I hope it's a good indicator that people are being more thoughtful about historical context, that there have been a number of weddings that have come up. Sort of you know: you'll see articles about them in your social feed. About like a this, doesn't prob
we need to be this way, but they were thinking about what they were doing. It involves an appropriation, and you also don't wanna, be that person right. So one of my favorite examples of that is actually I don't remember which which, when the wedding blogs that it was on, but was a woman who had put at pictures of her wedding and it had native american themes to it, and there was a piece pipe and I think it was a sort of a fusion also of scottish heritage and that somebody wrote this blistering comment about how is culturally appropriate Evan. She never should have used native american symbol. In her wedding and she was like do I need to get out my tribal identification card for you because you're someone who's being racist here? It's definitely not me, because the reason they had had this particular wedding was because that she was like part of a specific drive and her fiance. Then
then why scottish aha person who had made this blistering com it was assumed that that was not the case the fat with that way, the topic of cultural appropriation, I have the listener. Male perfect. Our listener mail is from Alley our listener. Mail is from alley and out of fear, Chaldean Tracy. I've recently listen to your theories of podcast on: U S, civil rights cases that and have something to add that I thought might be of interest. You I'm a Phd student and Melbourne Australia side note. I cannot say that, like someone from Australia, I sound like an offensive caricature of an Australian when I try I research language discrimination, while listening to your podcast, I couldn't help but think of what is known to linguists. As the Ann Arbor decision and thought you may be interested in it if you'd not already heard of it, I'm not sure
familiar most. Americans are with the trial noon officially as Martin Luther King Jr Elementary School children at all, verses, Ann Arbor, School District Board, and if you aren't, please feel free to ignore this email and go back to making excellent broadcasts. They get me How many hours of data entry involving my thesis project, the as is well known to linguists, largely due to an article published in nineteen. Eighty two by socio linguists, William LAB of much of what I am about, is how you comes from that article. The initial decision was a lawsuit brought against the Martin Luther King Jr Elementary School, the inner ear scoreboard and the Michigan Board of Education on behalf of fifteen children from the Greenwood Housing Project and Ann Arbor. In July, nineteen, seventy seven the school had declared the green rate. Children quote: learning disabled, quick, emotionally disturbed and as having quote behaviour problem. These terms, obviously not mine and had put the children into special education classes. The plaintiffs and the case argued that the children's lack of academic success was around
Here's a black English, which has no nowadays, is african american vernacular English or a vip, rather than the standard English being used in the classroom. The trial addressed the legitimacy of the claim that a vip was a distinct variety. Claim that AV was a distinct variety of English, rather than simply bad english and several linguist for ass. The testify, including live off. This was because title twenty of the: U S code, section! Seventeen o three f protects the educational opportunities of individuals in the face of linguistic barriers. The failure by an educational agency to take appropriate action to overcome linguistic barriers that impede equal partners you shouldn't by students in infants, structural programmes on July, twelfth, nineteen, seventy nine, the presiding judge found for the plaintiffs and the school board were required to a plan these hailing how teachers would be helped to identify speakers of African. can vernacular English and the steps that would be taken in order to teach these students standard.
Less following the Un Arbour decision, several school districts across the: U S implemented literacy programmes to help break the language. The language barrier for speakers of african american vernacular anger, English, giving them access to education, so for mobility that they had previously been denied. While the case played out a linguistic debate, the judge and the case recognise that the problem was a result of quote unconscious: negative attitudes formed by teachers towards children who spoke. Why English and the reactions of children to these attitudes. To quote labour quote the main problem with a cultural and political conflict in the classroom, not a linguistic. When you both seem quite dishearten that thy segregation and discrimination, we're still an issue in the United States
reason. I wanted to write to you about this case was because, while the ant arbour decision happened many years ago to me, it proves that things can still improve if the problem isn't immediately fixed, as we may have hoped. Relegating children to special education classrooms help maintain a kind of segregation in the years following Brown versus board, as I believe you mentioned, and this decision helped a fixed that I spent my days reading Trans transcripts of mass. These things that both say to each other about the way they speak and write. Discrimination on linguistic grounds is one of the last widely socially acceptable forms of discrimination at the moment, Andrew varieties of language, are associated with certain admirable qualities like education, reliability and intelligence and nonsense
their varieties are associated with not being these things and by extension, speakers of these varieties are often seem to be uneducated and reliable and unintelligent people are still discriminated against today, but the an hour and arbour decision, along with Brown versus board and park, gives me hope that things can get better, see alleys apologises for this email being so long, don't apologize, Scots, so much good information, and rightly so, but I just eight hours that I, as so often and like they have multiple reasons that I wanted to read this email. One is that I don't think we called out very specifically in that episode that a lot of kids that were put into special education at the point we were talking about definitely had it had more to do with like not being able to undergo understand what was said to them in the classroom than about intellectual ability it all this proportionately
Students were in specializing education classrooms. At that point, the other reason was, but viewing a dissertation about the nasty things that people do we tell about the way they speak and write reminds me of an episode, Holly, and I did on our prior podcast pot stuff about how terrible it is to correct other people. camera on the internet.
You had a lot of that episode was about how that there's a portion of people who are illiterate and have good literacy skills and they take their literacy for granted. But then there is another huge chunk of people who have problems with this basic literacy skills and there's like a huge disconnect and being able to communicate and and taken for granted that everybody has the same verbal and reading skills. Just nothing so if you'd like to write to us about this or any other subject, whereat history, the customer, dot. Com were also on Facebook and Facebook that complements the history and on Twitter. It missed industry are tumblr, is miss the mystery dot, tumblr dot com and are also on Pinterest, the Headrest Stockholm Flash missed in history. We have spreadsheet store which contain lots of certain bone cases of things like that, but as it missed in history, tat spread shirt back
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