Free Frank McWorter was the first black man in the U.S. to design a town and establish a multi-racial community. He did this despite having been born into slavery.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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another one of those cases where I found it scrawled in a note book and went. I should looked up and see what that was about his leg and they should have done this river ago. Well, at its it's something that when you mentioned to me a couple weeks ago that you're thinking about it, I was like that name rings, a strange bell that I can't quite place and then Google do it all right. Yeah. I feel like I've had this on my potentials too. Young so we're talking about free, frank, Mcwhirter, and his stories are really unique one, because he was the first black man in the United States to design a town and plodded and establish a multi racial community There- and he did this despite having been born into slavery. Story, is one of remarkable perseverance and diligence bow Before and after he became a free man, Frank had to work with incredible for thought and purpose to realize his goals for himself and his family, so Frank was born in one thousand seven hundred and seventy seven so during the revolutionary war
was in South Carolina on a plantation near the pellicle river that would see graphically be in present Day Union County francs Their Judah was and enslave women who had been kidnapped and taken from her home in West Africa. So Frank was born in slaved. Its believed that the white owner of this plantation, who was the Scotch Irish man named George Mcwhirter, was francs biological vi there's not a lot of documentation regarding francs childhood, although he presumably was working with all the other enslaved people on this plantation from a really young age. Information on his mother Judah, and what her fate was really doesn't exist whence once Frank story shifts. Judy gets completely lost in the historical record,
because in seventeen, ninety five George Mcwhirter and just for context- because there are two different spellings of that name- is M C. W H, o r t r he purchased attractive land in Kentucky. On the Green River, and that same year we know that, eighteen year old, Frank was also in Kentucky, presumably having been brought, thereby mcwhirter. Although there is actually some confusion in existing histories about whether Frank was sold to someone in Kentucky or whether he was still mcwhirter and used to settle the new land that had been acquired. Ah, I think If you look at the evidence in the pattern recognition, he was still with George Mcwhirter and Mcwhirter had four enslaved people that were doing this work and he was then able to purchase additional land in the following years, using that slave labour to settle it for farming as well and just to be clear. This was not land that was just vacant waiting for white people. This was indigenous land that had been seated.
treaties are otherwise taken, no wonder at around, like they just sort of arriving were like empty land. No, they definitely definitely was part of that other Problematic aspect of our history of just taking indigenous peoples, homes gal, I went out a whole Dr Hall when I was first reading through this, like about the history of of land rights in Kentucky, which is kind of outside the scope of this podcast, but was really interesting at the same time. So the first thing that Frank was in Kentucky. He met in full, woman named Lucy, who was in slaves by William Denham and then a jot. Her was married to George Mcwatters brother in that connection between the two families is how Frank and Lucy came to know one another. Like Frank Lucy had been born into slavery
she was born in one thousand seven hundred and seventy one. Although the union had no legal standing, Frank and Lucy married, at least in their own eyes, and one thousand seven hundred and ninety nine, and by all accounts they were deeply in love and incredibly devoted to one another, although they were, of course not allowed to live together due to their enslave status with two separate Emily's. One of the things that we do not often discuss on the show is how people who enslaved other people felt about these marriages- and it came up in one of the the biographies of frank- and I thought was interesting. To discuss because, in short, they kind of you to as a way to expand their property holdings, particularly the person who claimed ownership of a woman who was enslaved, this could be viewed as lucrative because her children would automatically become their property and in eighteen hundred, Lincoln Lucy- did have their first child a daughter, and they named that daughter. Judah after francs mother George MC hired Frank
the other landowners in Kentucky who needed labor on their own properties and their own farms. Then, at this point in history, this rough area of Kentucky wasn't populated with many people who had their own enslaved workforce and one thousand eight hundred the reported numbers were one hundred and seventy nine thousand eight hundred and seventy three white residence in Kentucky and forty thousand three hundred and forty three in two people and Polanski County, where Mcwatters property was. There were two thousand nine hundred and twenty eight white residence on record and two hundred thirty two enslaved people, and that meant that strong young man like Frank, was really in demand, as rancid labour and of the consistent revenue stream form a quarter who kept purchasing hundreds and hundreds of acres of land at a time yeah using the money that he was making renting Frank out as labour as well as other,
ball. But it is interesting- and I think, those those numbers when you get to Polanski count being so small. You realize that this really was an area that was not heavily populated at all. At the time. At some point in the early eighteen, hundreds Frank made an arrangement with Mcwhirter that Frank had higher himself out as a laborer in his limited free time. So that meant that Frank make his own money, but as part of the minute also meant that he had pay an annual fee to a quarter for allow. him to do so and in some case people who owned enslaved, people made more money from these monthly payments than they did hiring out their enslaved workforce themselves and since the areas I needed a lot of labour because their worst still a lot of white people moving in trying to set up farms, Frank always had work. in one thousand seven hundred and ninety eight. This arrangement actually would have been illegal, but in one thousand eight hundred and two
Kentucky law change to allow the direct higher of an enslaved person. However, it was technically illegal, but both the labour and the higher just had to pay a fine. No one was going to go to jail over it. This was still either paying those finds cheaper for these people than hiring free labour, so is applied. Pillar way for land holders to get their property cleared and settled and ready for crops dirt MC ordered and stay in the same place for long. He moved from his initial Alaska county Kentucky Homestead to another one in Wayne County and then he moved to Tennessee. But unlike what made the move from South Carolina to Kentucky, he didn't take frank with him when he moved to Tennessee, although he was still enslaving, Frank. The mindset of MC order and all this is real, Not now, but one avenue of speculation is that he knew Frank, wouldn't try to escape and leave his family behind, and so he trusted him to take care of. His property
actually Mcwhirter was aware that Frank had a plan of saving up to purchases, families Freida, and he probably thought that frank- would never actually accomplish this task, but keeping that hope alive for him meant that Frank would keep working both I'm a quarter properties and on his own side, work stable enough situation that George Mcwhirter clearly did I think it was much of a gamble to leave frank behind. There is a lot of speculation about their relationship and what it was and whether Mcwhirter knew that he was probably his biological sun and what that was, but weak honestly cannot in the early eighteen hundreds. The demand for saltpetre was on the rise. It could, of course, be used for a number of things, but had been particularly important in the manufacture of gunpowder and something we about an hour aunt. One Lavoisier episode back in twenty fourteen and Frank was insightful
He saw this rising market and he knew that saltpetre was being mind from caves in the area, so he set up zone, small business assault, Peter works, and he worked MC quarters during the day and he worked in his small business at night. Mining, the mineral nighter and then boiling it down to get the desired sodium nitrate norville Twelve contributed to demand and Frank was very busy. Rising to meet is two important. Things happened in one thousand. Eight hundred and fifteen that affected frank situation. First, the war of one thousand, eight hundred and twelve ended. Although the demand for saltpeter didn't drop off immediately II, wasn't George Mcwhorter died. Now wow Mcwhorter's children said that George had intended for frags to be manumitted. His death, and he had also told Frank that there has never been any formal will a written up. That specifically said that say: mcwatters AIR
is filed a man. You mission document that wasn't really bad at all stated that they intended to quote set at liberty and Freedom to a negro slave named Frank in the state of Kentucky late, the property of George Mcwhirter deceased. If said, Negro gave Abner Mcwhirter. The sum of five hundred dollars is the price of is freedom, but that same document said that they also wanted him to keep tending the farm, in Kentucky as a condition of this arrangement, basically making a loophole where it can really be free. They also didn't. They had nearly enough money to pay that five hundred dollar fee, yet it's it's interesting because
they did file documentation, which was not always common, but they also did it in a way that was really strictly beneficial to themselves and not upholding what everybody believed the George Mcwhirter had actually wanted. The two years after Mc Quarters DES Frank did by freedom, although he did not buy it for himself, but instead for his wife Lucy, he paid eight hundred dollar so that she could be free first. That was considered a very large sum in the seventeen years, since they had declared themselves husband and wife, Lucy and Frank had had thirteen children together, although only four of those children had survived to adulthood in freeing Lucy, Frank was ensuring that any future children they had would not be born into slavery in this actually a rather urgent matter for the couple, because Lucy was pregnant at the time now it is unclear of anyone outside of Lucy and Frank, knew this information when the transaction took place in April eighteen, seventeen, but when
the squire was born in September of that year. He was born a free man that dollars paid to William Denham for Lucy's release which, as I said, was considered high amount what has led to speculation. That Denham may have actually been aware that Lucy was carrying a child. In a moment. We will talk about how wife for Frank and Lucy changed after losing freedom had been bought. First, we're going to pause for a quick sponsor break. Ruth victims, not a history lesson, but it's something you should know your eyes deserve dependable comfort and precision. One contact lenses deliver no matter what twists and turns have, and your day. Precision one lenses won't get in your way, bouquet, before dawn, go for it, freelance gig, afternoon that to surprise virtual here with friends after dark precision, one daily disposable contact lenses won't stop you and did we and how user they are aware. Just popped the man when you wake up and go the best part, there's no
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How easy they are aware, just pop them in when you wake up and go the best part, there's no cleaning involved, simply throw them away. for bed and start with a fresh pair. The next day your eyes are going to love them, don't miss out on contact lens freedom, get started in precision. One contact lenses today with a free, five day, trial at sea. What happens dot com I examined, required professional fees may apply available at participating offices. Ask your I care professional for complete where care and safety information prescription only. The star a free life for his family meant that, even though Frank himself was still enslaved He had a wider range of options at earning money Lucy,
free woman could legally do things that Frank could not. Even though she was a woman and she was just as enterprising as her husband because the area of Kentucky where they lived and worked for decades was still considered. Frontier enslaved people knew how to do a lot of things they kind of had to be jack of all trades and just as Frank could clear land and build houses and farm and mine among other skills, Lucy had learned to ten feet: but also how to weave and to spin and to knit and she used. Those skills additional money for the family, so she would make handicrafts and seldom among other things, and she also took in laundry and frank continued reduce saltpetre on the side and the two of them saved as much as they could with the intent of expanding their families. Freedom. Two years after Lucy became a free woman, Frank purchased, his own freedom, the Mcwhirter famine,
the bandit an additional three hundred dollars on top of the five hundred dollars that they had stipulated in their manumission documents and one thousand eight hundred and twenty on a federal census record Frank listed himself without a last name opting instead to be recorded in the ledger. As free Frank that was largely about practicality, including the word free and his name, helps to establish to every one that he was not enslaved and as a measure to help prevent being kidnapped by anybody, claiming that they did not know that he was a free man. We have talked another episodes of the show about laws that in encouraged, basically, the kidnapping of of free black people, whether they had ever been enslaved or not to so called return them. Slavery and freedom came with some new problems regularly, because this was still able sparsely populated area. so small town mindset in Kay widely known that Frank had spent a total of six
in hundred dollars on his and Lucy's freedom in the course of two years. This of course, to speculation that Frank might have more money which led to one dunams children attempting to sue the couple in eighteen, twenty three after William Denham had died. The suit was for the sum of two rid twelve dollars. Switch Williams, descendant Obadiah Denham claimed, had been loan to the car. in the years between when Lucy became a free woman and when they purchased francs freedom, the couple took the Tec. Not denying it because they knew that would not work so instead they played that see under the law of family Ouverture, where a woman's legal obligations are automatically transfer to her husband had no responsibility for such an agreement and Frank being enslaved at the time could not enter into any legal contracts. So pretty ingenious approach to fence this case bow
stir through a number of courts and went through appeals and then got sent back to lower courts. But ultimately the ruling was in favour of free, frank and in some of those documents his wife is listed as free Lucy. That case was significant in several ways: first, that established the free black women could be considered legally married. Even if her husband was enslaved because she was outside the bounds placed on enslaved people by state law, those laws would have restricted their legal marriage. It also established that the civil obligations of transferred responsibility associated with femme curvature could be applied, to free black women in this kind of situation, also just for clarity, you will also just hear that kind of adapted that phrase to culture when we had Stephanie Jones Rogers on that she used that terminology. But it's the same thing
is also worth noting that it was intensely brave for this couple to fight this whole thing in court in Kentucky, which was a slave state. Another factor in this case was that one of their sons, who was called young, Frank, Was in slaved at the time by over diet, Denham having been born when Lucy was still considered, the dunams property and Denham had threatened that he would sell the twenty one year old, young Frank as a means: intimidation. However, during all of this case, young Frank was able to make an escape and he fled the can and with the young man, gone Denham had lost his most significant intimidation tactic. Incidentally, five years later, Free Frank, traded, his saltpetre operation to Obadiah Denham in exchange for many
mission for young Frank, so that transaction, giving up his saltpeter business was not a move of desperation. It was one of so many actions that free Frank had taken as part of a much larger plan as one thousand eight hundred and twenty is unfolded, Frank. Lucy had decided that they wanted to leave Kentucky entirely and move their families who are free state. There were multiple factors that fit into this decision than the obvious desire to live outside of a slave state, he and Lucy had children who had been born free, they were growing
up in a place where their future was precarious at best and even as a free man, Frank knew that his own future was justice. Fragile, as Pulaski County had become more populated over the years. That economic opportunities for Frank and Lucy had dwindled. There was more competition in the demand for saltpetre, had dropped off. Frank, had wisely diversified his income streams and he made money through farming and land speculation, but he really knew those sources of money we're going to get. Tighter and tighter Frank and Lucy did not hide their intentions till we Pulaski County. They started telling people quite awhile in advance, and this was in part to protect their chilled and who remained enslaved in Kentucky Frank, wanted to make it very very clear to the white people enslaving, his family, that he had every intention of purchasing his children's freedom Frank and Lucy were, of course, terrified that something had happened after they moved that there
surviving children, Judah, Sally and Solomon could potentially be sold to someone else and that they would then lose track of them, but their hope was that in making all of these plans open, Lee and being very friendly about it and maintaining assurances that they were going to make enough income in Illinois, where they plan to move to make good on their intentions that they would give the people who were holding their family members lives in their hands confidence that they had a sure sail. In the future, Frank, ever the planner secured attractive land and Pike County long before he left for Illinois. He made a trade or sale deal with a doctor Elliot there, and this deal free Frank got a hundred and sixty acres of Illinois Land and in exchange Doktor Elliot, got a parcel of francs landing, Kentucky plus two hundred dollars. This was again
very transparent to everyone, careful signalling on francs part to the community that he was leaving, that he would be back for his remaining in slaves, children and to the community that he was moving to that. He was a man with financial stability who was serious about settling there also sold off his remaining assets in Kentucky the money that he would need to get his new property up and running and productive as a farm all of this prep to move to Illinois was in line with the way that Frank tended to live and plan anyway, but there were very clear legal reasons for it as well. Ellen required that a free black man moving into the state needed to fight their main mission documents and had to pay a bond of one thousand dollars that pay was intended to ensure that the person would stay out of trouble and would not become a burden to the state and free free
a fairly unique position to have the financial liquidity and the paperwork from the quarters family to meet these requirements. Are these kinds of requirements or not unique to Illinois and they're wondering he also had a written character? References prepared, another requirement that have been added to the list for entry into Illinois, Frank's official character document was dated September seventh, one thousand eight hundred and thirty and signed by nineteen residents of Pulaski It reads in part quote: whereas Free Frank, a man of color intends leaving this state and removing to the state of Illinois. We therefore state that we have known for for many years, some of us upwards of twenty years, and there he is
ways, but an honest industrious. Man, punctual to his word in all of its dealings with statement, also details how frank work diligently first free his wife than to free himself and states that quote Lucy has always sustained a good character as a virtuous industrious woman. So in the fall of eighteenth, be Frank Lucy and their free born children, Squire, Commodore and Lucy am me Two Illinois in covered wagons, loaded with farming tools to start a new life free Frank, was fifty three at this time and Lucy was fifty nine and they are freed. Son young Frank had returned to Kentucky from Canada after Free Frank, had obtained his manumission documentation and he got things ready and moved with them as well. This entire trap had be so thoughtfully planned. A black family travelling by wagon from Kentucky to Illinois would just not be safe if they had trusted the wrong ferryman on a river or if
drove through the wrong area. Free, Frank and his family could very well have been enslaved. Again aside from that, there was the real threat of bandits and they had to survive during this journey. Over the course of a win even after they arrived after months of travelling, they would still have to settle the land and faced racism that was still pervasive in free states. This is a good time for an aside free states. Runner free the divide between states were slavery, was legal in states where it was not is often kind of simplified in a way that makes it easy to think of free states as more welcoming to black people than they were in moving to Illinois, free, Frank and his family may have had a reduced chance of being captured and kidnapped and enslaved once again, but so still lived twenty miles from a slave state, and it was very, very common for black people to be captured in free states and taken to slave states and even aside that very real danger. Free Frank did not
much in the way of rights when he moved to Illinois the eighty Eighteen Illinois Constitution forbade black men from voting from serving in the militia from serving as sharers from testifying in court cases against white people and from having access to public health, A sin, and then there were all those requirements we mentioned just a short while ago, which were specifically designed to keep free black people from moving into the state. Additionally, the state supported the idea, three of the american Colonization society, which wanted to resettle free black people in Africa. This is yet another tactic intended to curtail black immigration and settlement in the state. But, despite all of those barriers, Frank had seen the potential to acquire property and build a life went away and he was undaunted and we're gonna talk about how things played out once he in the family got there after. We pause for a word from our sponsors.
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for more information on the mass deceive you line up, including that first ever see Ex Thirty go to Mazda, USA, dot com, slash I heart and don't forget to explore, Their strongest financing options, When free arrived in Illinois with the intent to settle in Hadley Township, he first went to the Pike County clerk to file all of that required paperwork and in free francs case key was expected because his land purchase had already been recorded, so they knew that he and his family was coming
and then the entire Frank family put all of the experience they had from settling farms for their white and slavers towards getting their own farm in order in the first year, they just focused on subsistence farming and storing enough food to get them through. The next winter, and then they started focusing on cash farming in the following years, Lucy and Frank who were Baptist found a certain degree of social and religious acceptance from some of the neighboring white farmers through their regular attendance of services at one of the settlers, homes free Frank was, as has been obvious, enterprising and one thousand eight hundred and thirty four. He realized there was a need for a road to ATLAS to the West, so that produce and livestock could be shipped along the river. So he started clearing one himself, She had the road cleared. All the farmers started to use it in eighteen, thirty, six, a state act was passed to complete the road and make it a public highway in eighteen. Thirty, five. In the midst of
All of that Frank made a return trip to Kentucky having saved up enough money to purchase the freedom of his son. Solomon but when he got to Polanski County, he discovered that Solomon had been sold. One of the things he unless he had been afraid of but free Frank, was able to locate the purchaser who live near by and he was able to convince him to let him secure his sons, freedom for the price of five hundred fifty dollars, also in eighteen, thirty, five free Frank acquired a plot of land from the federal government for a hundred dollars. That was eighty acres in size. While he to continue to make land investments have biggest priority had been freeing Solomon, for using his money, and he continued for years to balance the goals of freeing his remaining family members and ensuring that he was building a life and a home for them once they were free. But I particularly plot of land will become significant. As is landholdings, grew and free frank work to establish himself and his family in their new state.
He became aware that it was gonna, be really beneficial to him if he could adopt a legal surname as a means of ensuring that no one could question the deeds on any of his property or any other of his legal dealings. So in eighteen, thirty six, he petition and to have his name legally change to Frank Mc Warder. In this case he left the h out of that last name. That's a variation on the spelling of the person who had enslaved him. There has been so much speculation. This choice, but there is no real record of francs, actual line of thought and what led him to that decision could though we're francs legal desires as soon as the name change was complete. Frank MC order made a second petition to request that he be given additional legal rights, including the right to purchase property in that name and to participate. legal actions. The state of Illinois General Assembly approved the petitions and he went from free, frank to Frank, Mcwhirter and all of us
older and were given that last name as well and his legal rights as a free black man expanded considerably in eighteen. Thirty, six after his name change, Frank Mc Warder submitted a plan for a new township on the land. He had from the government that was where he founded New Philadelphia, the town Plath that he registered with state featured a hundred and forty four plots with a connected row waste system and starting in April of eighteen, thirty, seven, the lots of New Philadelphia began to sell than the purchasers of those lots were a mix of black and white. New Philadelphia was the first town in the. U S, plan established by a black man and as it develops it was integrated, black and white residents living side by side in the children all attending when school, it was not entirely integrated. The cemeteries were still segregated, as the town grew Frank once again looked to the future in terms of ensuring his family's welfare
he wanted to make sure that, if anything happened to him, Lucy would be protected and could inherit his land. So in eighteen, thirty, nine Frank and Lucy were finally Lee We married under Illinois State LAW in an actual formal ceremony. When Frank was asked during the ceremony, if he would love cherish and support his bride, he replied why cod wash your soul. I've done that for the last forty years, this displaying new Philadelphia, continued to grow in the years leading up to the civil war. Though, the region on that border of Illinois in the slave state of Missouri was in a state of conflict between pro slavery, factions and abolitionists. Even so New Philadelphia. Still a small farming community made it through the war and saw a bit of a surge in residence after emancipation in eighteen, sixty five, the town was at its largest with one hundred sixty residence and a variety of small businesses that
of a railroad and Pipe County Illinois offered hopes for even greater prosperity, but when rail line was laid at the end of the eighteen sixty is it bypassed New Philadelphia, while many households hung on their this ultimately doomed. The small town just was obsolete. New Philadelphia slowly declined as the century progressed and by the middle of the eighteen. Eighty is there weren't many members of the village left in the half century from eighteen. Ninety: two nineteen for He New Philadelphia, really vanished into history is abandoned. Buildings spellbound down and wild native flora grew over the crops in the roads. Frank headed the new Philadelphia for the remainder of his life until he died on September seventh. Eighteen, fifty four throughout the years from one seventeen to eighteen, fifty seven Frank MC, Warder work tirelessly to keep his family together and to free the ones who had been enslaved. You'll notice, that's three years passed when he died, but we'll explain,
ultimately, he had personally purchase the freedom of nine people including Lucien himself, and this included grandchildren that his daughters had while they were enslaved Judah. Seen francs oldest daughter was finally freed when she was fifty but ie after he died, Frank family continued his efforts to free the entire family, seven more people, Franklin, Lucy's grandchildren and great grandchildren, were freed with the money that he had left behind and from sales of late that he had left his children in those years after his death and over the years, the gent, tally. Is it the families? Freedom had cost fourteen thousand dollars again in eighteen, fifty total? That is a great deal more today in
What year is New Philadelphia has been the focus of ongoing archaeological projects and efforts to have it recognized for its historical significance, Frank and Lucy. Mcwhorter's descendants have been involved in those efforts and sharing with the family's history is part of the scotch in a new Philadelphia was listed on the national register of historic places in two thousand five. in two thousand and nine. It was designated a national historic landmark. The national park service made it
if their national underground rail road network to Freedom Programme in twenty thirteen at its it is believed to have been part of that network, but national park status for the site has remained elusive and twenty twelve, a preliminary recognizance survey of New Philadelphia was conducted by the National Park Service and their recommendation was that the fight had issues of feasibility for needed staffing and also creating quote opportunities for public enjoyment. At the sight, although it was also noted that the site hold special meaning for people, so it should be supported through quote local state and or non profit. Efforts to continue to preserve and interpret the story of New Philadelphia, free, Frank Gatt and the really cool legacy yeah I love that story. It's those things where, On the one hand, you want find it uplifting, an amazing amount of other you're, like this person,
to do so much to to get to lake level I won't do. It illustrates so for me, but there were a lot of different ways that enslaved people resisted what was happening like we have talked about a lot of different things on the show about people escaping from slavery, about people liberating themselves were slavery about slave uprisings like a whole lot of different ways to resist and to have agency- and this is one of the examples of how that could be really complicated, because, like Frank was,
doing so much to free himself and his family, but in order to do that, like he kind of have to buy into the system like he had to pay money into this system, that was enslaving him, which is like it's that has come up on the show before I feel like it came up in the Frederick Douglass episode, but I could be missed, remembering that, like like back that was criticized sometimes within abolitionist communities of like why're you. Why are you buying into this in order to free or family, because it was like it was a complicated. That was the option that he had yeah I'm kind of bummed- it's not a national park, but you never know. I suppose it could happen in the future, but I am I'm not I'm not expecting it up. I have a very brief listener. Meal tat is
wireless listener, Eric and reversing both episodes that you have done the research on him and one that I worked on and he writes. Thank you for two things: one for doing a segment on the public universal friend a personage who mostly turns up in anecdotal history, books such as those by Karl Farmer, where we get a picture someone vague and eccentric driving about in a moon shaped here, to four to my bay, marvellous. I have been three seasons and have found that sees a forest currently streaming on the BBC. The game of Thrones comparison is apt, no character to be trusted or to be underestimated. Keep up the very fine work Eric and I'd. I mostly wanted to do this to say like that for two. My bay don't know thank me, except unless you're thanking me for bringing it to your attention, because I think I technical
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Transcript generated on 2020-07-26.