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business owner born to be your own boss and annex can help with payment flakes so you can keep doing what you were made to do the powerful backing. American Express dont do business without it terms, apply, learn more american, Express Dotcom, slash, business, welcomed, You missed in history class of production of I hurried use. How stuff works hello, unwelcome upon cast, I'm howling fry and I'm Tracy View open. So, as you may recall, on Mondays episode to just two days ago, we featured musician and we're we're two dutch resistant agent, Frida Balin factor, and that episode, as we mentioned, was inspired by the team at the Holocaust Centre of Pittsburgh and their amazing comic book project quits POW. So today we have interviews with the people at the Holocaust Centre Holly, as the person who conducted these interviews its with folks here

on this comment to talk about how the project works and how they create each issue and what their hoping readers will take away from it and you're gonna hear from three different people today. The first of those writer Birdie Willis. She is now delay and she wrote Frida story for the upcoming edition of Hoofs, bow and the way that she managed to get into that story is really lovely and she's going to talk about it. Thirty one- First tell us about who you are, and your writing background a little bit. Certainly so my name is birdie will, as I have been working in comics for oh about eight years. I would say most of it has been self published up until recently, where I was contracted to work on the most recent. Many theories comic for over the garden wall, just a cartoon network property, and I did five issues of that.

I am also currently in the process of working on two two hundred page graphic novels, unfortunately ears and NBA on both of them, so I can't really talked much about them as well. As a mother, graphic novel for middle schoolers detailing another life of a historical person, I'm. So I'm very excited about that. I was thrilled when I was approached by Marcel and asked to do just right at least one story for foots bow, and then I consider myself very fortunate to have them what's to write you and one of them to be about Frida, Fritos, amazing. She is one thing that I noticed when we present our episode about her biography is that she is tricky because she said immensely quotable and she had such a full life, and there are so many moments to talk about and so many moments of her life that she describes in really really picturesque detail

How did you decide on your focus to tell part of her story as a bigger a small, and in the bigger Holocaust story, what I found it was easy to connect. Freida and freed of life was her passion for music. So I found that in incorporating different musical terminology to describe the events that happened in her life, leading to her with the resistance and leaving Amsterdam and then coming to America and being part of the Orange County Symphonic Orchestra that it just was woven throughout her entire life and what better way than to use music to describe someone who so vibrant but so perfect. I know there have been a lot of times just even working on our history show where sometimes the material gets just a little bit.

Two emotionally heavy, and we need to step away for a little. While do you ever find it difficult to work with such serious subject matter some guidelines I, with trained as a jury, major, so that, with my degree, I find I am able to step back from the material as I dont want to create some sort of bias. But that was in my training. I that, with Frida knowing how much She was sort of it had a very light, hearted way of doing things in speaking about things that were often so serious in any of the interviews that I've seen that it was hard not to find that a little infectious and to utilise that in the best way to represent her. Yes, she wouldn't incredibly a beat person particularly can

the during some of the difficult times she had its always startling in a wonderful way, to me too, to see interviews with her or to read transcripts of those interviews where she's time out very serious and sometimes dark things, but she is oddly upbeat about have you heard the story about the already Gamba yes, but we did not put it in our podcast, so tell it please, okay, so she was, and I forgot, the orchestra or I've forgotten. The add the am I in which she she found this paper, but she had gotten engagement and it was to play cello and she had written down that she played Cello the olympic Amber and Piano and when the flier or the I suppose the article came out about what these people would be playing in the orchestra.

It said so and so violin, readable, Infante, shallow in Vienna the Gamble Piano, and he found that so funny. She said ass. She wished she had saved the paper, but she did not, but she said she had a wonderful chuckle over it and I just remember laughing very hard at that interview while watching it, and I think she is just she Just- has a wonderful sense of humor. I out she something something someone I would have loved to have gotten to know a hunter percent? I had a laugh because there are so many moments in her life where she kind of genes and there's that great interview in the documentary about her with her sister that says the same, like her sister comments, that Lake Boys and girls were both incredibly drawn to her and then Frida comments at various points that lake she didn't ask for people to come may be hitting honor, but they always were, but then why

urging her talk? I'm like I completely understand why everyone on the planet fell in love with you when they met you, I completely get it an oily absolutely here she is in her documentary thing. I just don't know why people fell in love with me in here said, and more women thing. Frida, three that operate freely choose incredibly lovable. He was my Take your favorite moment interred talking about energy. Yet, and how she had almost out of a romance movie going, and energy at the very first time. They me an area like? Why are you? Why do you stay when she said, because I love you? I grabbed her and I said because I love you and other alternative. That's not the most player

You think I got her wonder, fall right. I was clapping and sharing of watching this documentary. The portmanteau wife had come in and say what are you doing just watching a woman? Do her thing here, just watching she's Cecily real, I mean like charismatic, in a way that is so hard to describe because she's not a particularly she's, very witty and funny unlikely, said leg, just great turn of phrase in so called forget about who she is in her place in the world, but she's not like one of those big leg. Look We show body people but she's just incredibly magnetic it's really astonishing.

She really had this magnetic personality that, but also this very confident sense of self. In the way she seemed to hold herself it. I think it was the combination of the two that really true people to wear. My last question, for you about Frida story about this project in general is what is your biggest wish for readers to take away from this project when they closed the comic and they walk away with what that you hope comes out of the pages and leaves with them? I think I can understand that is more than just a story: Caesar people, some people who survived the holocaust and people who didn't, but regardless of our people and their people, that should be known and talked about and understood that their lives were full of meaning until until the Nazis invaded and took their took everything away and to understand and have compassion and empathy for these people, but so beautiful

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car, whether your grocery shopping, your work, your kids are at school. You just need the eighty t go up, which has a handy s, o s button. This episode was brought to you by eighty t. Everyone knows about the risks of driving drunk, you could get arrested, incur huge legal expenses, lose your job or hurt or even kill, people. Let's take a moment to look at them surprising statistics. Almost twenty nine people in the United States die every day and alcohol impaired vehicle crashes. That is one person every fifty minutes, even though drunk driving fatalities have fallen by. Third? In the last three decades, drunk driving crash is still claim more than ten thousand lives each year. People are unaware that driving, while high can be just as dangerous and twenty fifteen. Forty two percent of drivers killed in crashes, tested positive for drugs, not so harmless. After all, is it and

this from twenty seventeen to twenty fifteen marijuana use among drivers killed and crashes doubled. The truth is driving while highs deadly, so stop kidding yourself if you're empty heard from alcohol or drugs don't get behind the wheel. If you feel different, you drive different Dr High gotta. Do you I drive sober or get pulled over. Next time I got to talk to Jackie Reese, who works in marketing and education for the Holocaust centre. What are the awesome things about? Jackie is that she prepped a huge educators guide for full power and holly. We'll talk to her about that in the course of this ever view, Jackie first will you just explain to our listeners a little bit your role at the Holocaust Centre of Pittsburgh Share, so I envy marketing and education associate at the Hall Campaigner Pittsburgh, which

You mean they were a lot of different happen within the context of goods prow, I'm obviously the person who puts it information and whirled world, about purchasing it and where they can get it. I am also on the education side. I was the main person behind the figures, resource guide, which is better a hundred and fifty page resource booklet that we have available for educators. On how to use its power in their classroom, so it comes with a lot of contacts, building, definitions, indications and five sample lesson plans. So currently it is designed for the first three Williams, but when we come out with volume for I'll be working on an addendum to it to keep it up to date that resources so fabulous. I have looked through and it's amazing will link to

in our show notes. One thing that I wanted to ask you about is that when you're dealing with the community and the public may be outside of education, How do you build a bridge and how do you use, for example, things like the comic, but also other resources there at the Holocaust centre to communicate some history? That can be very dark but is incredibly important to share with people share. While I knew you had outside of education, but one other thing I do also is when we do teacher training. I have a lesson that I ran with teachers on. How do we use comics in the classroom and what are the Can we go through one of the stories in volume, three, Walter bonding her story, and there is very little taxed in that story so I use it as a way to exemplify the fact that what spoken what's unspoken and what is it that way, Aren't you imagery until my background is in

education, arts management. So this is, like my whole, furtive adult pieces. Essentially is that we can use art and ways it sometimes individual. Subject areas carefully cover, so the idea of using art too and they the unconveyed, able to feel the unfeelable? We do a lot of arts programming here at the centre and we ve noticed first certain that the exhibits and when we do our screening them, don't you and things like that. It reaches people in a way that no lecture lead, nor any sort of traditional learning style is going to to reach them. Huts pow, as you have mentioned, is about to go into its fourth volume, as you ve done three already. What has response been linked to those all three, it's been often so I came on board while they were working on volume three and I think, just within the time that I've seen volume three be out in the world,

we ve been getting more and more awareness. We we started getting orders from not just across the United States, but across the world we ve got orders from as far away as Australia, weave Merci contact from various organizations who would like to do some version of puts pow in their communities, both local holocaust stories, indifferent cities, but also other places that are doing things that were there talking about different They could then they want to use what we call the shots tomorrow to talk about those disks. Topics in a way that they give that information to people in a way that they can absorb it, and then just people people really respond. But the kid we have kids here, all the time who idolize Marcel so I'm excited you'll, get to talk to haven't used. Euro to so many kids and I'll bet the grandparents were like I have to buy, from my green cared like the banning Christmas present, I could get them not applaud.

But plug and yet I think it's all things where people think of it in many ways is a useful tool, but it something that people of all ages can actually get behind them and I would say, just from sort of an outsider perspective, because I came in on three just seeing the waiters above all through the various volumes. Is there really incredible? So wine? You know they were laying the groundwork. Q S head is pulling together. Three was my favorite, but now that I've been reading the scripts for four four, it's gotta be the best one And the fourth one focuses entirely on women yeah. Can you tell us a little bit a ban and what led you guys to make that decision and also just kind of how its evolved over time share. So there's a couple different thought: process:

behind that, one of which, being every year here at the Holocaust Pittsburgh, we do different aim that we sort of days are programmed around the. Last year- was women in the Holocaust. Now we pick that being because men, women, children, binary everybody's. Went to the Holocaust suffered, but women had unique way the suffering that differ from maybe them the male experience, just in terms of that their femininity could be used against them and could also be a tool of theirs to regain their humanity. So we love the idea of eating volume for two really Honan on that theme in India. From the more I would say this, this volume really kind of take the more person all approach, then maybe any of the other ones have more more intimate an emotional one, and I think it's really beautiful. Do you have a of the subjects that you guys ended up? Selecting for this

well I'm a little bias towards Frida, because that was one eighth adjusted also, as I discuss two birdie incredibly charming and appeal, a picnic absolutely and I'm trying to think All of our colleagues tonight I think freedom might have to be my favorite, because this issue so multi faceted. You know I mean should part of the resistance and he did not come the gender norms, in a time where it would have been so much easier. Just to do oh and she'd. Also, this the groundwork, Can you this end like she was She was leading the way in the time that it was not easy do so and she did it with style and flair and a sense of humour and how many that one euro so yeah I play she's, probably my favorite yeah. I actually feel like. If you took away

the war and all of the impact that had on her life and all of the amazing thing she did with the dutch resistance. She don't ever really heroic story, one would still be during her superhero lose the elders are you the century are super here? The music like she's, isn't superhero as superheroes of eligibility coop community, like she's superhero in so many different ways. That is its awesome that we get the feature in this volume. I also they should just use superheroes I'll she could lake we're whether she I've seen pictures of her like full suits, but also in like gown gowns, that she describes as very plain, but I'm her. They look incredibly sheikh and beautiful

So we think I'd be drunk and, moreover, of a manly style. When I first read about our status, sorted like the imagery I had of her a nice picture of her dress put her arm. I see, I think it eliminates this from when a confident person she was you know anybody? Absolutely everybody looks better when their confidence, so I think the feeling well. The idea of setting an example? away were setting an example of heroes and could tell, but on the micro level, to hanging lots of women. Kid could do too more confidence and so an unjust that level she's in Europe to a hundred percent Jackie. What is your leg? Vision for the future of hoods pow you think about what comes in volume, five or six or seven, which I know is hard because you're in current time on four, but do you think to the future

but what you may be able to do with this comic? Absolutely so I know Marcel as guide. I wanted to dine volumes planned, and he already knows what themes he wants to do for all of them. So in that respect, I agree with you that already tense that that of me in terms of imagination, but I definitely have a lot of. I would just love to see more communities implementing hoods pow. There until their learning? I love the idea of we. Talk a lot about a foot how model and really building that out. So other committees have the tools they need to tell the story and in a way that is more accessible to people, and I would I just love for it to be recognised, matches for its merit of the Holocaust education Torbert, just those of the wonderful

I'll make you mean Marcel, got award winning artists on this thing. Marcel himself is an impressive force, so it's I would love to see you get recognition in that respect, to bless my vision This episode is brought to you by the all new two thousand and twenty Ford Explorer Tracy. I know that you have been thinking about an interesting thing lately, which is what your pick would be for the greatest exploration vehicle of all time: yeah, I'm going to go with the research vessel that was owned by the late Paul Alan bound, so many shipwrecks which our listeners love, that we started to make jokes about it like we were like, and this is a shipwreck that wasn't found by Bethel will help me all their two thousand and twenty Ford explorer is the greatest exploration vehicle of all time. There are a lot of places that have been explored by other vehicles, but this vehicle, the Ford explorer, is going to take you to places that you might not think of his explorations, but real

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Our final interview is with Marcel Walker, who is in many ways the beating heart of this project. You heard Jackie essentially referred to him as just an idol of many kids in the area, so his segment is gonna, be the longest of the three, the segment really traces, the project whole history from the very beginning, as well as ourselves, passion for the work that is pleasingly apparent first, will you just to give us a little bit of contacts talk about who you are and your work before you ever got to this comment, because I know you're begin, animation very near and dear to my heart, and you have worked on a lot of other projects. So you talk about those a little bit. First, sure sure, absolutely style.

I have been making comics literally all my life. I knew what I was six, that this was gonna, be my vocation and looking back on it. It's a little strange is when you think about it, when we typically when people choose their, there will be another careers even in you can choose a career in your your teacher, late payments, early twentyth by the time you get into year, forty, yet you give me your following path. Instead on, when you were younger, often you haven't experienced such a life, and I often think about. While I chose this one I was fixed by it will guide. You knew that that was what I needed and wanted to do. I always envisioned myself making mainstream comic, so Superman that man and narrow spider man all those kind of characters. I am very obsessive about Superman anybody. Those people tell you, I'm sure, that's what I always figured I'd be working on, but like went all the way they did unfold into that. Didn't quite

happen, even though I did I was always dry. I was always making commenting. That was always my my goal by. However, I started teaching comics illustration and our common classes and workshops whenever the my early, the mid twenty four. This would mean that early midnight I did that for a number of years and that's why I learned a lot and that's where my pal kind of started to change a little bit right was working more my own independent comics as our working further client and think I was doing a lot of. Restoration, work. I had a day job to support a lot of that in alchemy, waiter, through this, would have been the early two thousand. I also started doing work with the two Liam, which is the new team of Comets cartoon art based in Pittsburgh,

So the founded a dream- and I we were friends we had met when I was working. Two percent are the art heating, those workshop in classes. We state in touch, he started up between them and the two museum actually started working with a Holocaust centre of Pittsburgh on the initiative that became hoods power. By before I was involved. I knew some the participants cover on the initial committee and it would have and only twenty thirteen. I believe our order in point thirteen point, fourteen climate, aware that this was happening in my understanding is when the project began even though they wanted to use, comes in Khartoum, art toward the purpose, revisiting all about education, revamping all about education. They had not quite candid the decision to make a comic itself formally, but one that decision was made to the two. They decided to make a comic book and a companion, Travelin ART exhibit so the moment that was decided.

I knew I was gonna be involved with the project. Now I tell people that, even if they had not kept me did to join them out can be involved that progress and just ages work down. So they didn't back reach out to me for that. At that time we will work on the first issue. We didn't know, we didn't have a template to go by, but we think we just had a very strong idea of what is needed to become my good, very good friend and Lee Project writer weighing why's. He wrote all four of the stories that were featured in the first issue and he even the new reach out the different artist to illustrate each stories, and I ended up illustrating the store that told a story

survivors, machine baron and would mark a barn who met and got married after the Holocaust. That was now in the transformative experience could legacy. We didn't have a that would inevitably, we didn't have anything to go by, but we were able to really produce something strong. We hit the ground running, we talk about that. How it hold up, even when we look at it now like volume, one did exactly what we wanted to do, and I also turns and people do, what kind of question the project around and brought them to our side, because even from the survivors who stories be told, me featured the story to survive

where's. He settled here in Pittsburgh. There's no stories really covered a breadth of experiences university. We had people who had been in camps where people who had been partisan fighters. We had people who had been in the military, the american altering gone back, so it really covered a bright the stories there but similar survivors. We approach to get their permission for the family. They they worked quite in approving the project initially because they didn't understand there was that preconception about what comics worry. Two of them is needed at a juvenile art form or committee guard form. One of the other survivors who has profound net first issue for Alzheimer he was one of those, but when he saw the first issue, we have a lovely photo them from when he received the first. As you almost hot off the press, he was instantly as the porter. After that he gave us a lot of the language that we have you

to describe the project sense so and when it was someone we were working on at first issue, I have the ideas knew. I was one of the other group of artists working on the tenth ology grant. A very strong sense of how the project was going to evolve or needed to evolve forward commented and about that it comes from I just I could be more issues in the theory that I've started breaking out what I thought those issues need to be. I put the focal pockets of each issue needed to become and its largely itself. I played out very close to that are behind the scenes. Things changed a good bit both holocaust better with a project that is who is working on it I now formally work for all of us there, so they created a position on that for me to become our project coordinator. That's been a blessing always around

I'm not gonna, bring us to where we are now aware, were producing these various issues and we are also giving them into the hands of the people were to write it. They're gonna their intended, for which it educators and dates, but there also created were general audience it. So anybody who picks up a copy of any any volume about should get something out of it. You mentioned that you are The project coordinator on this year also the lead project artist, a writer letter. Is it tricky to be doing the art? part of it and then have to shift gears and do more of the administrative part of it. It can be a good time can be put at the same time. It affords me insight into the creative that's when we were working on the first two issues. So what does with the original editors aquifers?

we're not with. I worked very closely with him, which is what allowed me to eventually transition into this war is an advocate for me transitioning into this war and brought it wouldn't have become what it became without incited gotta. Do the math shouts could he was great, but we worked so closely because because it was easy for me to go to anticipate the needs of the writers of the artist involved, because that's what I do and so, as we work on a project like why that's been, I think it's that made it a lot here for us to get the best work and we have had with all the creators wall, because I know I noted like do you, along with the structures in the thing that created have and united, first. I have not been able to see what they can be improved, but not never enough, as always in a positive way and in its in it worked out well so,

but again there there their time the words we have to act and we got a guy right. I'm now in this mood, I'm now in project coordinator mode or now, I'm in a more creative boat, but on the whole they go hand in hand and indefatigable account centre is super support and understanding of the need for me to switch gears which, if they work, I wouldn't be able to do what I do. Right. This is obviously a really important project and it is, in my mind, worthy of a huge distribution platform, but it's at its heart. It's an independent comic, I mean I, I know, people that make comics and work for the big companies and base to have their own challenges, keeping stuff on track, and it feels like, as things get smaller in terms of the product in those problems actually get bigger, so you're the challenges for you that come with me an independent art house essentially well, the thing is

similar to other independent comics. You know just reaching an audience in getting getting worse. That you exist and in building on that, but there are also very there's some think that a specific ticket power, because we are producing this book with dual audiences in mind- and you know, with with educators of mine. I did it because, when, when we tell people what we do is working with educators, there are others, there's three notable acts that are used in in these kind of studies night by ITALY, without the diary Van Frank and Mouse button, speak up, and so those compulsory come up all time, especially at last one, because you know that being a graphic, I called graphic prose work, but of one from a comic book. Hearts. So we get compared to that alive. He thought. Would there there? The challenge? getting this into their hands specifically of educators, em.

Overcoming the hurdle of it being a comic book? I mean it's not as much of the challenges that it has been in the past, but I mean it did though it does a good until people see. I will say that any that, as soon as people see it, they get it almost instantly kid a gold sooner I got to cry, I mean we ve had the fortune ear to have presented the power to so many different people. From so many different background, there was a wonderful experience I had last year with a group of middle and high school students had had a local local boys and girls clubs, and indeed it was predominate. Black youth Ngos are I'm black and it was important for it was important for them to see me in my war and working on this project and at first I wasn't sure that I connected with them in a part of that region.

They were teenagers and you go all railway connected with your audience. Bush shortly thereafter, we some of them was of our staff. We were at an event on the world. We walking in a large good little kids were there in a recognized me and they just they called out my name and descended on me and fortunately, that I mentioned earlier. Picture then so I have. They were really excited. Also a nation that we connected. We have we did and then we actually brought those kids into the Holocaust and are afterwards when they got to meet and listen to one of our survivors and I'll just love light, so I got the bigger challenge with its brow of an independent obligation. It just make making that happened again and again and again in making that reach as broad as possible. One thing that really stands out to me:

looking at times when through three and you sent me kindly a rough of some of the stuff. That's in four is how much effort you put in to accuracy in representing places and spaces where these things happen. Like I think I saw a note in some of the four that was lake with about making sure that the facade of a building like was was research or something. What is that process like it how? How do you get the right resources to have that information into the hands of the artist that are Crete recreating these these worlds? And How often do you kind of have to fudge things because you don't really have the the primary sources on it,

I will tell you something that, from the outset, we paid a lot of attention to what this project and that that's gonna depth ongoing in its true, both the written component and the visual component variants on a case by case basis, goods, but certain stories there's there's more reference material with others. When there's less that, we rely more on the creators involved to come up with a reasonable, presentation of what would have happened, Fritz Forgotten, Heinrich I mentioned earlier. He spoke about that, like the advantage of using the comic book medium to tell these stories, which is because you didn't have the car drivers or video refers

They are a matter for the meal, a bull everywhere. To document everything I was. Certainly a different world were living in now writers and artists, precipitous specifically comical creators. They can use their imagination and skill set to fill in those gaps. So we have done that from time to time, but Usually Gina, it has to be done with the right kind of sensibility to rent and I've been instances where I've had to reverse engineer. Would somebody may have looked like when they were young rang ass, tricky, but here I just so and on the cover of our first issue, one of our survivors

the door I loaded with very well known and our local community. We had to do that. Might I had it? I had a basically reverse engineer how I thought she would have looked at the young lady when her story took place, and I didn't- I Didn'T- have much reference to go by. Most of them lose her older. Just a week ago, I came across a pluto here in our archives of the Holocaust that are due to what it was, but that wasn't available at the time can hide. This want to kick them That is what the grating had at the same time, it was, I owe entails a number of photos of our survivors when they were young with its humbling. To think of it could be that all real people were not making any of this up, so that is a very keeps us grounded, but when I was glad was, I got pretty close. I think I gotta go about his clothes. What have been able to you know like you could still tell that was her right. So you don't we do the best we can- and I like also group process too in all the stories have to be very buyer,

and it is a question in a word. We we encourage the question, be rate like me we want to make sure that its close, didn't. You know accuracy that, with the accuracy is as high as possible. You mentioned. I'll being part of a team, and I'm wondering is there a quick and dirty version of lake? What is the the actual process like? from the moment where you say yes, where featuring Frida, Balin Fonda to here's the printed comic. Is there a quick and dirty version of them, I think we can dirty word would be the first which, like all the subjects we like the cannot know who always gonna be included in each issue, could act as a percentage of what the balance of the miracle tat is gonna, be once you ve done that in the next part, is

finding the white, creative team or individual. Sometimes it's one person, sometimes it's too fanatic three, but you will we want to make sure that we have the right person working on that right story and while we do typically like t colored out your locally collegiate easier to work with people that you have your on an we reach outside the region. On a couple of occasions, but it always about carrying the right talent with the right story and sometimes even after back, like you have to replace people. That has happened right, but I have found the right now it almost always works out. The way it's supposed to work out when the emphasis is on telling the story correctly, you end up with the people involved, but the talent involved that you're supposed to have so

is really just about keeping the why the communication open that the part that assurance that you will end up with about product so how much back and forth as they are so is it pretty much that the writer comes in with their script? The artist as their thing everything gets approved, goes to print. How many revisions do you too, Do you like where, in that, in that line of of process using shift around? Where did they get a little amoeba lake? It can make a varied forms, the story, but typically we contact the writers. First, of all the ideally we like to know who the teams are gonna be, but we contact the writers first and one day you know they ve been briefed on the industry and allowed very often they do a lot of independent research. If there is a specific aspect of the story, would like to focus on without some discussion about that. But now we get one of your first draft in your I reviewed first in the team reviews, it Kampala notes: try

It goes back to the writers, and so there can be some back and forth, but usually I'm in using were able to get it within a couple of drafts. If you do not have belaboured process, because our topples really super strong and then it's more like the same thing with the artists with by the time the artist get the scripts didn't we get, the go ahead is usually a little by give more straightforward with them, because they ve got something to actually go from right, but that at present presented loan challenges as well like you can read the script and Canada have all thing, but once you get that art back, there might be other issues that you have to iron out, but you re building were able to get that come within a draft or do we have the artist do The preliminary lay out the ideas we look into redraw as little as possible cinemas than it lay out. And so our work or if they were digital ages. There was an end

Once you ve got a clear enough. We can understand that up now we drop in the well I'll drop in lettering. On top of the rough just see how it flows and looks at everything went back its approved another there. Given the go ahead as well, there can be changed it up to the last minute I will say in accidents involving three we had. We had some changes in using up when it's mostly tack, but until we submitted it to the printer, tell me that it is a process from beginning to end, but you know it at this point. We do not have a method with its automatic too bad. I know your method has been refined, as you ve gone on and now, as you said, you'd have a pretty strong process in place, and I I know you also mentioned that you have on occasion found resource. Images you wish you had earlier, but now that you are for years into this project, and apparently looking you know all the way to volume, nine and perhaps beyond. Do you You have done anything different earlier on, I'm going to say no

because we needed to do what we did they get to. Where were you right now I get these things could have been twitter or people. We could have approach that we didn't. I mean you can always kind of second guess it after the fact. But honestly we ve done far more right. Pow then we ve been within mishaps. We ve made many methods have been very, very minor, and you know it is continually evolving project so that we get it refining in Egypt. I submitted as we really what's your favorite issue, and they did have me that yesterday and I always say, and if the truth, it's always the issue that we are working on at that time, because it always that you can tell that's gonna, be the best issue ever live then answer just over here smiling, I don't have any one thing I wanted to ask: you is how you select your superheroes for each volume. Well,

explain. There's a theme involved with every issue. You know that important do are also larger programming gear, the Holocaust center, but we tried it Ex approaches, will use volume for as an example, we try to select story that really cover a breath of the subject. Matter what's now stories on average about six pages long, so it doesn't give you much room to tell a person's life story reared somebody just an instance in a person's life story. So it's all about the economy of the story. Tat, So here we have to look at them story. Can you tell in in this abbreviated way and still manage to convey the essence of what makes this so important, and it is other than do the number of factors that can result? Why we teaches one story over another? Some can be.

Access to information and what were able to verify if its subjects to people who know like our local folks, you know we like to get people blessings where possible volume for these data. This is telling stories of people were publicly known, so we don't have that kind of constraint, but in a way that we look at that balance, I guess more than anything else, and you know if there's two people who have more or less the same kind of a story, tat sort background of one, your experiences visible, stronger or its more it's easier to to capture. Then that becomes a story that we put probably go with, and it s a kind of feel like an that's an organic process. You know, but it also gives a democratic process. You know like I know what I mean it's he came to me and what I got, what they were doing?

only advocating for particular story, would listen to that Jack dimension. Also like she does. She booth advocating for freedom story, and she could have been more right about that. One though, yet that is the price of the funding by the time you come down to your final selection plastics people. Typically, you know you got We will look at it and got yet that's our group that we need to be telling stories about, since this is really become a big part of your life for a while now what has been the biggest price along the way for you personally as being part of this project. How one way it's been reviewed. I knew this was something that you're gonna be received. Well, but it's it's really. It means it needs a lot of people. We just had a group of eight created in here yesterday and at one point I was talking

about the project. I was talking about the first story. I worked on at the moment it hit me that these are real people's lives, that we were being entrusted with depicting, and I was looking right at them and I could see right in the middle of the good things with a group of girls and like you, Is it all changed all at once? It might look like they were. Gonna cried the little back button in a good way to get it. I get this day in the immediacy. I guess that they appreciate this project. That's what grounds me. I was at the Carlo College, not long after we finished the second issue. I was invited him to talk a group of students for their art in the Holocaust studies class and they had been assigned a number of works, including mouse to read, and so they had read that may read mouth and they told me directly how they appreciated mouse. They liked it, but they loved power, and that really pulled me over the fact that they loved her

even over boughs and had not to take anything away from miles. I think they were just able to connect with these stories, because you know wee wee wee render these stories. In a minute fashion, which here you got a lot of information and short space, but also it's very naturalistic depiction united. It not die than that. I think that that accounted for at least some of the Rio that warm reception is the thing I get to continue that still support. That surprises me, but very happy. Do you think about it in terms of being like your legacy in some ways, sure sure sure if I gotta talk to buy Aspasia tomorrow, which I dont want to happen, but you know you just never know, but if it's only, what you guys were not evolve with its power has been the best experience I could have ever asked for and its provided play

forms for me to do other things. It is just that it's wonderful like when I tell people where I work and what I work on. It's me with their reactions or even before they feed it, just knowing what it is obliged to project so you'd anything everything you dont encounter that often it's possible, I'm not gonna, say that's for sure, but it possible. I might be. The only like working cartoonist in Pittsburgh does a good job making it's where the benefits and stop and act like a boy. I could never imagined this would have been possible yeah, but I do want to see more of it happen, good it it's a thing. It also affords a lot of opportunities for a lot of other creatives here in Pittsburgh. That makes me super happy being able to. Many people like birdie through just kind of came out of nowhere and then not get out a park right off the bat. What did tat happen anywhere? I reckon I guess if you, if you're with sports team or something

not an athlete, I'm an artist, so this is where I want to see it happen that so perfect I want to pay. For all, you know that spaceship is taking you to a cartoon planet, I'm just saying be open to the idea You ve heard about that. When I was a kid very its eyes I haven't, I stood views were all the carbon to Turkey's rewrite. I feel like bugs money. Is there and the old school spider man? Is there for me stand. You understand I do what do you hope that people take away from this comic when they read it always want either. What I want readers to always remember you. These are real people and its disgracing be really exciting and moving and Jan Transformative, the bees are real people, and that means that they are flawed. They're, not perfect volume to I wrote and drew the story of a run, a similar who was a polish social worker who was part of a network to help rescue

approximately twenty five hundred children from the Warsaw Ghetto and in so doing, research on her? She was not a perfect person by any means why she was a very strong person and there are certain quarters I have with a rather an Frida in that the fibre of their character, and the way they were able to do what they did, and you know in both of them, I feel like they did. A perfect thing, like their lives, are representative of the perfect respond to what all of us, whether they both live, really really long productive alive. And yes, I that's the kind of thing that I hope readers take away: a cow disease, other messages and now in a fortitude longevity. You know that

What what's out, in the end, our deepest thanks to Birdie, Jackie Marcel for spending time talking with me and to the Holocaust Centre of Pittsburgh, for even launching this amazing project, I'm so excited that they're looking for ways that they can help other communities develop similar projects and we will link to the Holocaust Centre of Pittsburgh website safe and get all the information on huts POW, including had order yeah the have lots of lots of fun links on the show paid for this day. So we hope that You will check those out, since this has been a link to your episode. I was going to do kind of a shorter listener mail, but it's really fantastic. It is from our Wisner M e n T Wright State, Tracy, I am a huge fan of the pond cast and I'm a history major in college. Bravo, Emmy! When listening to your Maria tall chief episode. You mentioned her last husband, Henry Buzz passion, junior from Chicago and thy name sounded familiar. Henry is a family name and passion was my mom's last name. So I asked my mom and she confirmed that Maria Tall Chief was my third cousins: wife, that's grandpa's, cousins, wife,

doing a family history paper on my mom side for one of my history classes and I'm totally going to use you guys as a source. I was unknowing doing research. While listening to your podcast, which I thought was hilarious, Mr Ojala Amazing, and I can't wait to keep listening that's so cool shelter. At a p s at her mom met Maria and said this is very nice. To doesn't surprise me. Does such a fabulous and cool connection to history. We always talk about how what keeps us passionate about time at history is that it is a living thing and we are connected to it in ways. We don't always realise- and this is a very direct connection. So thank you so much for sharing that with a semi we would like to share your connections to history with us. You can do that at history. Pod cast an eye heart radio, dot com that as a new address, so keep in mind. You can also find us everywhere on social media at missed in history and missed in history. Dot com is also our website. You'd like to subscribe. That sounds like a fantasy,

idea, you can do that on the Iheart Radio, APP and apple podcast or wherever it is. You listen. Stuff you than Israel. So the production of Iheart radios, how stuff works for more pod hats, how radio visit thy heart, radio am apple pie, guests or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. What does your first musical memory for some or the first constantly ever tended premiums, Quest Lover, the legendary Woods Croup and those of the kind of questions I like. The answers to questions of Supreme Council of Supreme is my weekly passed for I am. I t Supreme, sit down nerd out with her favorite creators and thinkers and find out what makes them green and you'll learn something. That's a really good. Listen the question of Supreme HARM review at Apple pie, death or wherever you get, your blog