Welcome this you missed in history glass, a production of I heart, radio, However, I welcome the podcast, I'm how we fry and I'm tracy wilson, so the names, Jacob astor is one that comes up throughout. U S, history! There all the same one. When you hear that, may there were several nor lot and its those names that I feel like is a short hand. First, super rich person gap and just the astor part, two yeah yeah, but because there have been so many, sometimes people may not realise that the they're talking about the ruins. This leads to confusion when you're actually talking to someone about who he was the one.

we most recently mentioned on the pod cast, which was in our charles shapen episode. When we talked about newspaper coverage of the titanic, was John Jacob asked her the force who famously died on the ship, but the family fourchan and name recognition began well before that with the first john Jacob Astor, who came to the who s from germany not long after the colonies gained their independence as a nation, and today we're gonna talk about that start of what is now, called an american dynasty and how astor became the first million air in the united states, quick heads up alive This involves the fur trade. So if the discussion a man, was being used. As fur is distasteful. Do you? Maybe you want to get this but I will say we're not talking about any of the details of how that's accomplished. There's a brief comment.

Of numbers of animals lay in the episode, but la alot of fur trade entrapping talk just in general, Sir John Jacob after was born July. Seventeenth, seventeen sixty three and wild or germany has father johan yak of astor. It's a butcher. My family was working class. His mother was Maria Magdalena vote, felder Maria. and Johan had got married and seventeen. Fifty some accounts indicated that John Jacob was the youngest of three sons, but the asterisk also had more children. One son died in infancy. it appears. There were several sisters as well, although they really have not been given much attention at all and historical record no, I saw like a reference to a christina getting married, and that was kind of all that I ran up against in my research

John Jacob was christened Johann yahkuk, like his father, but will use his angler size name here to retain clarity and we'll talk about when he made that switch officially and when John Jacob was three. His mother. Maria died when Johann jacobi married to a woman named Christina barbara. The second marriage produced six more children, and that was situation that led to a lot of strife, obviously meant that there were a lot of people being supported on a pretty me your income, but also most accounts indicate that there was a pretty clear division between johannaeum children from his first marriage and his children from the second marriage, and that those two family groups never really were able to integrate in a harmonious way. All of the kids from the first marriage are said: have moved out as soon as they were able to then johns case for a brief period of time, as father tried to teach him to be a book

and John hated it. His father had a reputation for being a very good butcher, but also If a hard man to get along with an john did, especially like the work itself. Has older brother george had moved to london and was doing well as a flute maker, and his brother Henry had become a butcher in new york. Both of Johns older brothers wrote to him and encouraged him to join them in their respective locations and trades, and the unhappy John Jacob broke from his father and went to london to make musical instruments with his brother. george. It was in london that he started to go by the angler sized version of his name. Also. He would later to scope by the initials J J Yeah, there's a kind of sad, sir. Stands here where, even though he hated the book, The treaty was apparently very good at it

but it was one of those things like you would be. Fine you'd have a job for life, but it's like you, but I hate it. It seems like a line of work. It would be particularly unpleasant if you really hated it right. Grueling and also, I think he probably associated it with his dad who he had problems with John lived in london for four years, making wind instruments with his brother and, during that time his brother Henry wrote really frequently the many opportunities that were available to you and in the newly formed. U s so in seventeen. Eighty three at the age of twenty. That's one of those things that gets, little wigley in the historical record, his exact age, but most places report. Twenty John Jacob bordered the ship headed to north amerika, the move from london to the EU. as has also led to Astor, sometimes being identified as english american. Instead of noting his birth in germany, too,

is enough. Why? If you see this and an english american or british american, he was german. This trip that he made normally took about two months, but this particular one took four because the ship had a drop their root and move south to avoid pack ice. There was forming in the atlantic. It was spring time, but it will They had some late freezes. The ship She got frozen in ice in chesapeake bay, despite all of this manoeuvring to try to avoid that problem after the ice got thick enough, that people could walk on it. Some passengers walked the rest of the way. There are some discrepancy in accounts of whether astor did this. Some account suggest that he waited for the ice to break up so that he could go ashore with all of its cargo. That included some instruments that he had packed

to sell in new york. Others indicate that he eventually gave up on waiting and made the walk on the ice to baltimore. However, he got there. They'd in baltimore maryland for several weeks, he made friends with a sharp owner there, who helped himself several instruments at once. He had made a little money. He headed to new york city, his brother Henry and Henry wife Dorothea. When he arrives in new york city in seventeen. Eighty four it had roughly twenty three thousand residents that blows my mind will talk about that little bit. This The Friday episode biggest I'll talk about how I in my frame of reference, made that number make sense and then think I'm ridiculous, but so John Jay opted not to work in the butcher trade with his brother Henry. Instead, he ended,

working as a street vendor for a little while for a confectionery shop, so he sold bake sweets from a cart which sounds a little bit dreamy, although probably not very heavy, on the money making. Then he moved on to work as an assistant to a quaker fur dealer named robert brown and then So was work that asked her really took to you, even though, initially all he really did in terms of his job requirements his duties was beat the first to keep moths at bay. but his boss really liked him and saw that he was very smart and he had a lot of initiative in terms of learning the trade, and so he soon up his weekly pay from the they'll two dollars a week that he was giving him, and he also The boss also gave him and engraved silver pocket watch, so there was very clearly an affinity between these two men. Astor was still selling flutes during this time. As a second income and ass, he made money. He lived fairly frugally. His fur job included, room and board.

the money he saved up was invested in more flutes to sell, as well as an animal skins that he prepared and put into storage once he had a large stock of them. He would travel back to london briefly to sell the firs through a consignment shop and pick up a fresh stock of fleets from his brother. He also made deals with two piano manufacturers to act as there. New york sales person. John was obviously savvy when it came to business. He started to do really well for himself. On September nineteen seventeen eighty five, if asked her married, Sarah Cox, the daughter of his landlady over the course of the next seventy the years they had eight children Magdalen was born in seven

team. Eighty eight Sarah was born in seventeen ninety but died in infancy. John Jacob, the second or john Jacob junior real, sometimes seem listed, was born in seventeen. Ninety one, william back house, was born in seventeen. Ninety two dorothea in seventeen, ninety five and then Henry was born in seventeen b seven but died in seventeen. Ninety nine! So just a toddler. Their daughter eliza was born in eighteen, oh wine and a son who lived only a few days was born in eighteen, oh to win. on and Sarah married, the two of them continued to live at the boarding house, but they had two rooms of their own. One was their lives, being area and the other was set up as a show room for johns musical instruments, fair and John were similarly driven when it came to business and she both assisted in his business work and encouraged him to try new ventures. Yo yo

and see her mentioned as though she was really kind of his right hand. She took care of a lot of administrative and managerial duties for his business as it grew There are some debates over the nature of their union, whether or not he had married her for her dowry and his kind of a really good business arrangement, but they stay together a very long time. He later told his children that he married her because she was the prettiest girl he had ever seen, even though most account say she was not especially pretty so it's unclear how much their relationship was right. man take versus union through business interests, but they mean life together for sure in,

I of seventeen, eighty five so not long after he became a husband. John Jacob astor made his first fur trading trip to Albany. This meant that he was going directly to trappers to acquire furs rather than purchasing skins from vendors in the city, which is what he had done up to that point according to law, or he would make his way into the woods and then traded and became friendly with just about every trapper he encountered. He got to know local native american tribes and purchased from them. Remember that, according to lure phrasing here- and he also did business with european trappers when he had a full load of furs, he would take them to albany and pack on barges and travel with them back to new york. He made a lot of profit, but he's we'll have to keep his business kind of small gives you the one man operation and he really wanted to expand, and so, after

gathering more funds. He was able to expand his efforts beyond albany to Montreal, which he visited for the first time in late summer of seventeen, eighty seven so so far, this all just sounds like a guy from humble means who hustled alot to build an empire. That's not wrong, but it also does not tell the whole story, because John Jacob astor had a reputation for being ruthless. said that nobody could ever get the upper hand in a deal with him when it can dealing with indigenous people, he used a lot of different manipulations, including only making deal, with native american trappers after he had first gotten them drunk. He also fast talked a lot of people to make them think they were getting the better of him while he was actually land an agreement that wade really heavily in his own favour. Urine one account This was an ongoing problem that a lot of trappers were

selling or giving native american I'm alcohol before they started negotiations, and so some posts were actually outlying that If they did, he was like wanna go in there anymore likes. That was one of his key tools. So just now, there's a lot of undocumented behaviour that is not cool in here. Coming up we're gonna die about how J J Astor expanded his wealth by taking advantage of really it's about every opportunity he saw, but before we do that, we will pause for a quick sponsor break. This episode of stuff you missed in history class is brought to you by hello, fresh at my house. Somehow we went from the holidays

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I'd desserts and more at hello, afresh market. You add these staples and sweets tier weekly order and they will arrive at your doorstep. Along with your meals. You can see why it's america's number one meal kit, gonna hello, fresh dot, com, slash history, twenty one and use code, history, twenty one for twenty one, free meals, plus free shipping, that's hallo, fresh dot, com, slash history, twenty one and use code history, twenty one for twenty one, free meals, plus free shipping, Women a treaty of seventeen. Ninety four was signed. It opened up new options her astor in terms of scale. So the g treaty was an agreement between the EU s in great britain. That was not especially popular in the u s, but it did put rest a number of outstanding issues that were still lingering from the revolutionary war. In one of the elements.

This treaty and the one which is significant for asked her was a change and export permissions. So, prior to seventy, ninety four britain could send export goods to the. U s without much limitation and it did but the? U s couldn't reciprocate, because there were steep tariffs and restrictions on item shipped into from the u s additionally, north western posts in north America that had remained occupied by the british, were finally turned over to the? U s. So this meant for j J astor who treated furs in the north eastern parts of the? U s and into canada. He was. he's gonna have a much easier time travelling around to purchase skins and ship them back to new york, and then one so skin we're ready. He could export them as a good on their own in bulk. Instead of having to

I will to london and work through consignment dealers on a small scale, as he expanded his business. In this way, Astor also started to diversify his revenues streams. He invested in real estates by the start of the nineteenth century, John Jacob, stir had accumulated two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, and he put that money to work by continuously investing he increased as real estate holdings that just about every opportunity at this point which, The year eighteen hundred new york city had more than doubled in size from the time he arrived there. It had about fifty thousand residents asked our saw that the population was only

wait to keep growing and he knew that if he bought property it would increase in value as more and more people needed places to live, so he bought and bought. If an orchard or a farm was struggling, he bought it and often just let it sit. He bought property up and down the hudson. river, even property, that no one saw any value in yeah he's. infamously was no just by swamp land to be like it's gonna, be someone somebody's gotta. Be this. It was not wrong his next in terms of diversifying as income was to start trading in china, so just ass. He had done in firstly europe and bringing flutes back. He started sending first china and bringing silk and t back on April. Sixth, eighteen o eight astor establish the american fur company in new york. It would not only exist in new york. It had offices in many places and he eventually set up a kind of a headquarters in mackinaw island she's. Now part of Michigan

because was closer to the fur, but, as I am business entity, its home base was new york. Now, up to this point when he started american fur. He had a number of different kind of small businesses that were sort of specialised and who they traded with, but when he founded american fur, he solid, he all of those smaller businesses under one it can this would eventually lead to a monopoly on the fur trade, as competitors were either destroyed by outbidding. That was enabled by asters wealthy company, or they just got absorbed at a time when the fur trade was rapidly expanding throughout the country, It seemed that asked her always manage to out maneuver. Anyone who was trying to carve out a territory of their own. The american for company is, and cited as the first business monopoly in the united states. Therefore If of the larger company was, of course, a strategic business move motivated in part by the lewis and clark expedition asked her

read all about the famous expedition and in eighteen, ten decided to start a fur trading network on the west coast. The idea was that this new venture, the pacific, for company would give J J Astor a major advantage in dealings with china. The pacific fur company could send a ship to the coast of what's now oregon, set up a fort and then get fur in the pacific northwest and have it on ships much faster than any other fur company could get on its way from montreal to china via new york.

At the nexus of this web was the town of a story. I found it in eighteen, eleven on land that Astor claimed or the united states and, of course, was named after him, but early into the efforts to establish this hub. The war of eighteen, twelve started between the. U s and Britain. During this conflict, astoria was captured by the british asters trading network was unable to ever become established. He was always ready to capitalize on a tragedy, though so asked are, bought lot of skins very cheap from trappers and the north west, who were eager to get out of the business and out of the area as hostilities wrapped up. Yet he took advantage everything. A story Oregon still exists by the way. It's just do never became his his fur trading nexus that he had hoped

the war of eighteen. Twelve was, of course, costly for the united states and the. U s. Treasury was seeking ways to come up with the money to pay for it, so enter John Jacob Astor and too rich associates, Stephen gerard and David, perish in what has been called the first bond syndicate in the united states and the start of investment banking in the united states. He's millionaires bought government bonds worth a hundred dollars at the price of eighty eight dollars. Each in massive sums I have seen various numbers reported, but it all seems to average out to about ten million dollars each that they spent to be clear. You're, even though he had grown as business a lot. He didn't have that cash in ready money. He borrowed some from banks with some of his real estate holdings as collateral, and per the terms of the bonds, which is different than what the treasury had initially offered, but what they negotiated. The full one

Hundred dollar value would be paid to the bondholder over the course of thirteen years. This is essentially alone with very clear terms on how the interest was gonna, come back some of the bond we're resold as an immediate money. Back for these investors, asked her held on to a lot of his. These bombs dropped value initially, though, when Washington city was burned by the british and the chesapeake campaign, bonds flooded the market as people thought that if they did not seldom force something, they would never see any return on their eighty. Eight dollar per bond investment and asked are bought and bought and bought, and just waited for the tied to turn we could collect the full hundred dollars on each of them. As the? U S, treasury made good on its steel newspaper editors horace. Really once estimated that, through some cloaked bond by out, in addition to his on the books tramp

actions J J Astor may have made all his money back plus another fifty percent I mean again weasel, but a stew, and though he made a name for himself and the beginning of his fortune in fir tree then deals like his war financing, the real source of asters financial, six as and what really enabled him to start essentially, a dynasty was his astute, real estate investments in new york. We mentioned already than he had bought a lot of property in new york. He owned an estimated three percent of all of new york freedom, That may not sound like much but we're talking about one person, so it is action, pretty significant and by the late nineteenth teens asters Various enterprises and holdings had grown so much that he made his son, William back house return. from studying abroad to help him run things william, didn't

actually want to get into the family business. He was kind of shy. He was more interested in art and literature than he was in his dad's business, but once he was in charge of things He was as ruthless as his father and some historians have even characterize him as more ruthless one of the big legacies of John Jacob and william backhouse Astor was the construction of huge acts of tenements, and this is a situation where, in a lot of ways, they very carefully put together business deals that protected them. They never built any tenements. William became an expert in the ins and outs of property law. They owe

the land then leave it to developers them. Those developers would sublet it to basically slum lords, who would build out the entire twenty five by one hundred foot lots with buildings that could have dozens of families keep in mind that serve aid lot size of twenty five by a hundred feet. That seven point six by thirty point. I have meters, was based on how much space the surveyors of new york city initially thought would be adequate for a single family, but because this was all operated by sub letters asters who enjoyed a life of just extra mary luxury by this point, we're twice remove from any real responsibility and could claim ignorance when problems related to the poor quality of life in the tent,

whence was brought up. It will take a little bit more about that on behind the scenes on friday, it becomes its own whole story, and I didn't want to sidetrack. The entire John astor thing, since william was really in a lot of cases spearheading these initiatives, but its it makes me very angry april. Fourth, eighteen thirty four asked her return to new york aboard the passenger ship utica coming from england. After having been in a wedding, it had been and of a terrible voyage. It was full of delays, but the news that received at the dock was worse than anything he had endured at sea. He learned that his wife Sarah had died a week earlier. Maybe the timing on this is something that becomes really hard to pin down. That story is one way in three laid, but the date a serious death. is kind of all over the place. When you see it, indifferent accounts, sometimes of listed as eighteen, thirty, two sometimes eighteen, thirty four

Sometimes am. I think this is a result of a good old fashioned typo eighteen, forty two, but that type I was in a place that people took as gospel repeat, a whole lot. One of those early eighteen thirty states is almost certainly correct. There is, Even a very well reviewed, asked or biography that I read that lists the eighteen thirty four date, but then dimensions, astor being a widower in eighteen, thirty, two! So keep all of that in mind. before we get into asters life after Sarah's death. We will take a quick break in here from the sponsors that keeps stuff you missed, and history glass going. M hued eighty thirty four john Jacob astor sold his interest in the american fur company. It was at the time the largest commercial organization in the eu

And there have been some characterizations that asked her lost his interest in business when Sarah died and that a lot of behaviour in the years that followed her death was driven by grief. Any did certainly agree for her. He had felt especially bad that he was not home when she died. He had similarly been absent for the deaths of other family members and the accumulate guilt over. That was something that he wrote about to his friend wilson price hunt, but there were definitely other factors involved in the decision to liquidate his business interests. American fur company had been capturing and killing animals for their skins for years

At this point, it was estimated at one ledger report that the company had sold an average of twenty six thousand buffalo skins a year and twenty five thousand beaver skins a year for fifteen consecutive years. There's numbers are pretty staggering. There was no thought in the trade first sustainability. Additionally, styles, and tastes were shifting. He noted on a trip to london and eighteen thirties that men's top hats are being made of silk instead of beaver and silk from china was no longer at the the level of demand, because european textile houses were making gorgeous fabrics of their own animal health or also seen with increasing suspicion as possible disease vector at a time when cholera was spreading rapidly. In short, Astor saw that the revenues streams that had brought him so much

elsewhere, soon going to slow to a trickle or even dry up. That would mean he would lose money set of making it, and he just was not interested in that. No, he would. interested in building a hotel, though this is it because, as we said, he didn't really build much of anything, but he really wanted to make a hotel. He does, I did to take on the project of building a six story: luxury hotel on broadway between barclay and bessie streets, The area where the world trade center complex would eventually be built, use, distracted. Land meant that he had it Tear down existing homes, which he bought out. It also meant hearing down asters home. So he had another built at the corner: broadway imprints, but the result asked. Her house hotel was a three hundred room luxury hotel, the drew a line

a famous visitors over the years, including Abraham, lincoln edgar, Allan POE who stay inspired. The story, the mystery of marie regime and charles dickens, who found the hotel itself to be level but the pigs eating garbage on the street outside you have kind of ruin. The whole thing we ve talked before. They show about how dirty new york could be during the size one see retired, asked or made a deal with washington irving to write his biography done. A show on washington irving before irving. Would not take payment from Astor and instead negotiated to have the books publishing rights in their entirety. His reasoning he would later right was that quote: he was to pay. Early, rich a man for me to permit the shadow of a pecuniary favour to rest on our intercourse. Irving

did, however, ask asteroids a paper. His research assistant, his nephew Pierre Monroe, irving, who received three thousand dollars for going through all of asters papers, assemble in outline and an organizational structure to the work, even incidentally, tried to get a good sense of how the trapping business had worked and had been perceived from the native american perspective. Although its unclear what information he may have gotten us, he asked for that information from samuel g drake, who was a white man who was considered to be an expert on them, yeah that struck me as interesting because it's like, I don't trust your version of the story, one hundred percent, but the export. I want to ask It is also a rich white guy who probably doesn't really understand. What's what was going on there? but the resulting book that irving wrote a story. or anecdotes of an enterprise beyond the rocky mountains came out

in the fall of eighteen. Thirty six and this book sold a lot of copies, and I got a lot of praise and I found, great, but washington, irving was a little embarrassed by the whole thing his book, despite having taken no money and to try this day. Objective was really soft, unasked or it made him seem like a great guy and he needs he had kind of rushed it and their words. Then we could fix. You called it out as being asked her propaganda, but the book remained. Very poor pillar and it was published in several translations and all of this may J J Astor very pleased about He was not actively working after selling american fur, company, Astor continued to make money and real estate when a massive fire daring, particularly cold winter, took out most of the tenements on asters land. He lost nothing because of the way those deals had been set up. The less ease, worse

Principle for the buildings not astor, rebuilding was at their expense and if they opted not to rebuild astor, just rented that to some one else during economic crashes, stir always sailed through often buying mortgages. For deeply discounted rates, when others were struggling and never hesitating to seize the property when the original owner defaulted yeah, she was ballast like a thing. He did a lot of lake o you'd, you need it. I only need a little help with a mortgage ya got you owe you can't make your payments it's my network. He was not the least bit hesitant There is also a very wild story about how asked her got a massive chunk of midtown manhattan in a real estate deal inflicted for an exorbitant some in eighteen, o three, a whiskey distiller named medea even had fallen into financial trouble, took

a mortgage on his family's property, which was known as eden farm, and I sat on bloomingdale road must now known as broadway. The farm stretch from present day, forty second to forty six streets and it took up the base from bloomingdale west to the hudson river. If you know this that island of Manhattan, you get a sense of how big this was and also, if you know, new york city, you know that times square sits right in that space. Now so seeing the value of this property J J, asked her in eighteen, o three had paid twenty five thousand dollars to buy out one third of the mortgage over time. Eden defaulted and asked her took control of it over the years. There was a lot of lengthy legal battle over the property between astor and edens airs, because they claim that that was really a fully legal transaction. But ultimately the millionaire settled with the family for a mere nine thousand dollars the problem seemed like a lot then, but over time he

Some of the lots- and he also sold off lots from the property leave, the farm itself largely intact, and even he had sold all of it. He still made five point: one million dollars out of it off of what had been a thirty. four thousand dollar investment. If you count both his initial by out and the nine thousand dollar settlement. It wasn't until after asters death, even that the remaining sections of that trunk, land were sold by asters airs by the late eighteen. Forty ease astor had a number of health issues, as health was really pretty feeble. He had been just of problems. He had trouble sleeping. He had experienced some paralysis. John Jacob Astor died in new york city on march, twenty eighth eighteen, forty eight at the age of eighty four, his four

at the time of his death was estimated to be between twenty and thirty million dollars. That was roughly one fifteenth of all the personal wealth in the u s at the time. This is actually difficult to calculate, despite a lot of people wanting to know this number, but because so much of his wealth was tied up in realists. at a level that nobody had really seen before it took a long time to just tabulate. This whole thing, then, the years from eighteen, forty to his death he had more than one point: two million dollars and rental income alone that far outpaced his spending in acquiring new real State here I had read one figure that he had spent like seven hundred and fifty thousand two eight hundred thousand dollars and its again, but he was just making tons of money like he had. No, it was all black in his ledger. There was no, no,

have you ever been to the new york public library, which is lovely. You could say you ve benefited from one of the bequeathed ments of John Jacob astor in his way when he died. He allocated more than four hundred thousand dollars of his fortune for the creation of a public library. This is the things that sounds deeply benevolent. But it's really him making got on a promise that he had me This city leaders a decade before he died, but though he had said as for building a library, he had then dithered on where to put the building, what collections he thought should be purchased for it and who should be involved in the process. In it dragged on and on a kind of seemed like. While he was alive, he didn't wanna, give up that chunk of money, but with the money, from the will. That project was finally carried out and then in eighty may be five. The asked, library was consolidated with the lennox library, with additional money from the tilden foundation to form the new york public library

As a point of note, though, that central building for the new york public library, which is pretty iconic, was not built until nineteen eleven, though so well after he had died after the will, was unique in that it was just incredibly wily. He left money for various needs and support of his family, his oldest son, John. Jacob junior was not going to inherit the bulk of it or take on the family business. It's not clear exactly what the situation was, but based on some pretty hazy accounts. It appears that John Jacob junior may have had sort of developmental disability or some other illness likes. thing going on you, descriptions of him, call him varying things. Lake, even things that are outside of the completely inappropriate, outdated language. It's like he was

a week boy like what does that mean? Yeah, we don't know, but there were it seems like that was he was definitely not talked about very much, so we don't have great information William had always been John Jacob seniors intended protege, but Astor also truly adored, william son John Jacob after the third and wanted to leave him a significant part of the fortune. But he also didn't trust government laws. he simply stay the way that they would to protect, that actual trust to seem like the lock and change and that trust would no longer be safe. There were laws in place that limited trust, so Astor left his son, william half of the bulk of his fortune and the other half went into a trust for John Jacob, the third. He also ask william to make a will, with this same set up with John Jacob, the third getting

after the family fortune and John Jacob, the third oldest son, who was not yet born, getting the other half of the trust this was intended to. and the family money from ever transferring to any one in one lump sum that could then be mismanaged or otherwise lost three generations of asters followed suit before great grandson William waldorf broke this chain even with his savvy arrangements it took more than for decades for all of asters will, which included a lot. of smaller sums for various charities to be fully settled. That will have a lot of very sort of odd and nebulous bequeath myths of lake I want to give me to the elderly of waldorf germany for their cared. It's like ok, but there's nothing set up to handle this so his executors had to create a lot of new funds and smaller trusts and accounts that could handle some of his

his charitable bequeath myths which were considering his immense fortune, pretty pretty tiny, really sounds like Jacob Astor. I have to simultaneously admire his intellect and absolutely load his attitude about other people and how big should be taken of aims at every opportunity It's an inch I'll talk about it behind the scenes of a juxtaposition of another wealthy man we have talked about before, on the show that I actually like

But in the meantime I have listener male ok, this is from are listener. Alessandra, who has a question about pronunciation? She writes hi there. I love your podcast in your perspectives on history. You convey a lot of respect of the cultures and people you discuss. I really enjoyed your recent episodes on Pauline johnson and love the anecdotal inclusion of the house with identical entrances front and back such a beautiful example of blending in honouring two cultures. In one family, I'm a born and bred vancouver right and I don't know anything about her. So thank you. You seem to take a lot of care in french pronunciation, which is lovely. I've noticed that you apply french pronunciation to attack names and are the last episode of them and see me sisters is a poor example to give, because their talents, the mood to france, but even in giving the birth names, you say, tell your names in a french way. It can be distracting. I find I just skip. The episodes of the taliban subjects now should give some examples which Emily I going to like. If any,

hey I'm likely coming across as a super gear him. But I love my other language and wanted to share in case you didn't know in tribute, I attach photos of luke, a newfoundland bilbil are sweet, gray prince and or fly the cat who likes to shower with his humans. I'd include a picture of him showering can't seem to get one without including body parts you might want to say. I know that trial. I had a cat that used to shower with me and here's the deal both Tracy and I have only ever formally studied french's. Another language I grew up speaking at a little bed. So that's always my the fault on anything tat lake I took three years: the french in high school and then six units of french and cholera and then have been really trying to lake refresh my french through dual lingo. There was a break in there because I couldn't concentrate on anything because of the early

damn it meant that weigh up. You know I am, I know: you're lingo fell apart about pointed out, I'm much better with the dual lingo now, so I think it's like not unreasonable to expect The one non english language that we ve had formal study into till I kind of bleed in some other things that we try to say. But I started typing in answer to the same email and was like I'm honestly, not sure what you mean, because I researched this particular episode that prompted the email and there were various audio lectures and presentations and things like that from people who have there are studied the man seemed family or the mazarin s or who work for archives and libraries that have stuff about them in their collections and like their pronunciations were basically what we followed. I think, probably one of the.

examples that was in here was Giovanni and I'm pretty sure the way I said that was informed way more by having studied the work of Nicky giovanni who pronounces that name much differently than an italian person would but, having ever studied French there's a A wonderful I mean here's. The thing right like I, it's not that were taking more care in french pronunciation. Linkages comes more naturally to both of us. The other thing is that if it makes you feel any better, there are french people that don't like the way we pronounce things either yeah we've also gotten emails from people who say I'm not listening to any episode. You do. That involves french because your french pronunciation is over pronounced than annoying, and I don't have to be clear alexandre. I don't want this to sound like we're piling on you, but as an explanation and exploration of how different languages and pronunciations work I this is a bit of a divergent, but I hope everyone will come on this journey with me. There is a team

tat creator. Who is like a mass, the bartender. He designs cocktail programmes for like Michelin, star restaurants named Chris louder check him out and he had a wonderful thing when recently than the groaning spaghetti, Otto became like the it thing and pop culture with precise echo in it with four I mean by sayings. Bug me out: oh that's. It you're, saying you're actually saying a messed up. New groaning has Puglia domains mistake, that is neither here nor there but there were some people. They were complaining that people were pronouncing smugly otto correctly and he was leg but if we all know that that's what we're getting at, maybe could just get past bat and record nice that we're all trying to connect about something and doesn't that sound like more fun than I was, I kind of love the supply do yeah. I've got something I mean I you know it's it's cool like when somebody is. Is

want from your city, even though, like we all speak english, for example, or most of us in the. U s speak english, but lake they will come to, laughter and we have a street in lima that looks like it should be positively on, and it is constantly arm, and so I find it quite charming when people miss pronounce it, and I think it sweet, because I know exactly where they are talking about an iphone. You know yeah, I promise were trying. Well hard to say things as well as we can always always. I mean I never want to offend anyone. Italian is very hard for me on the other show a host criminal yeah. I grew up speaking french My kosovo show maria is from an italian family ngos. the italian, we crack each other out, because we just we gotta meet the middle class. She has. She struggled with french and I started with italian, but it's like

What really gets me a lot of the time in italian is where the accent on a word goes is not natural to me at all, and so then, if I try to hit it, I sound really really silly, but we're always frank. I promise I promise. I promise no matter what language you speak, that we have butchered ip. unless we are always always transfer. I regard and trade I am respectful. We are basically always gonna sound, like beginners we're trying to prevent too pronounced most languages because because we are- and we can practice and practice in practice and we're still beginners yeah. I mean part of that right. Is that like? If we were to set aside the history research and only spend the time learning the languages we would not be able to do. History show Sometimes I feel like that's what I've done its tricky tricky tracy does so much better with NATO american language than ideal. I

I always feel really guilty about it like we there's there always places where lake any one person is gonna struggle more with one or another, just based on how their yeah there their power whites and tugging, come to comfort. Women make noise, but we also have a lot of examples where like there is an american english pronunciation for something that is taught in schools and is an american dictionaries, but is not how a person from another place would say it at all, like newfoundland, jazz I had as of the cabin, Very word pronounced newfoundland when I was in fourth grade. Listen, I will never forget the crayon. Worse Those were trying times as I just said it in a way you don't like I'm so sorry, I please I'm not trying to instigate anything enemy. he's out of that clarifies alleges that I'm totally not turn a pile is just seemed like a good good jumping, point to talk about how kind of tricky it can be to cover all these. These linguistic shifts that come up in the podcast

If you would like to write us, tell me how I just said craig, I mean where you can do that. If you are say the history by aghast at I, radio dot com- you can also find some social media is missed in history or you can subscribe to. Stuff, you in history class on me, I radio app abhor anywhere. You listened to your favorite vodka stuff. You missed in history class the production of I heart, radio for more as for my heart, radio visit by her radio have added mankind's or wherever you listen your favorite shows today will about with three things you should know about plan be one step. One and be as emergency contraception, a back up for regular birth control. You take. If you have unprotected sex to it, helps prevent pregnancy before, It starts no egg, no fertilisation, no pregnancy. Three!

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