Queen Victoria loved two men: Prince Albert, and after his death, her servant, John Brown. Late in life, the Queen had a third partner, a Muslim man named Abdul Karim. So why did Victoria's children want the records of this relationship destroyed?
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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welcome to stuff you missed in history class from has two weeks to come, hello and welcome to the pact, unfair, daddy and I'm the women sharp aborted and talks a lot in the past six months or done. If you observed, I should say on Britain in India and the relationship between the two countries and a subject that comes up a lot is the difficulty. We have the difficulty many people have had in reconciling british ideals and colonial british axe and they just don't always mash up yeah, especially notable are some british attitudes in the watch me by episode that we did recently said He rose the man who is forces finally defeated this indian Joan of ARC also called her remarkable for her bravery, cleverness and perseverance. Yes, Personal admiration, combined with a policy of depression, can seem really really, Sir
and when you look back at it, but perhaps no one epitomizes that better than Queen Victoria herself she sort of Bee the man in combining admiration with suppression and, on the one hand, she's all for imperialist expansion when she officially becomes empress of India in eighteen. Seventy thinks she's over the moon in it. At that point, it is just a title: change pretty much she's been effectively in charge for quite some time on the other hand, she also fall completely head over heels for indian culture, especially the culture that imported directly to her by her favorite grant her moon. She or teacher a man named Abdul Karim and is often called the Indian John Brown to understand that reference, though, will have to provide a little background for you and Victoria's life went. For your old Abdul Karim showed up in London. Victoria was in her late sixties and she was a good place celebrating
old and jubilee and finally re. The busy schedule of an active monarch of Victoria had, of course, assume the throne as an eighteen year old, sheltered girl he had been raised in this close to isolate and by her mother and her mothers, conniving companion, Sir John Conroy and the plan two had was to create a monarch that was so utterly depended on her mother. By extension, Conroy would have this sweet visit. As region, they didn't work and as soon as Victoria became queen, she shook off her early. Fly says and went about choosing her own first, her prime minister, Melbourne, his she relied on the lot and then at twenty, her cousin Albert whom she married, and if you ve seen you're, joking about this earlier. If you ve seen Victoria, you know this, story. Maybe something will revisit in greater detail at some point: the ass much requested, but just to give you background on where Victoria's coming from yes, a shame
but had nine children and in her constant state of pregnancy and child, bearing victorian over a lot of her power to her husband. She was happy though she wrote once without him, Breathing loses its interest through an album see and child Bearing Victoria handed over a lot of her power to her husband. She was happy with them, though. She wrote once without him everything The thing loses its interest through an albert died. Quite suddenly in eighteen, sixty one, the forty two year Old Victoria, went into a very deep of despair and yearning and longing and of daily nightly longing to die for the first three years. Never left me so her people were ok with this deed. Morning for a while. After all, it was the respectful, respectable thing to do for a victorian woman for Victoria herself. But eventually it just became too She wasn't doing her job. She was never around. She was never at function. She was just missing. I think
even found a political cartoon from the time which is the bridge HU. I am sitting behind the throne, which is completely empty. The crown is there in its wondering, the queen S cause she's just come on. You may have to posters a blogger, something I so from their its simplifying both victorious personal feelings and her rule little bed, but basically two things happen to finally draw her out of this depression, One was her interest in imperialism and the other was her interest in her husband's former guilty. Not was brown. Who was scottish and he became her close friends in eighteen, sixty four until his death in eighteen, eighty three and there's tunnel, had a debate about the precise nature of Victoria relations. I never movie another potential podcast. I think. Definitely, and I mean she was called Miss. Brown and she scandalize her court. Staying alone with John Brown.
her scottish cottage, and it caused a lot of talk. Definitely, but certain, regardless of how far their relationship when it certain they were very, very close, and she went into deep mourning after his death to and after her own death, which happened about twenty. Later she had her servant secretly. Add to her cough, not only mementoes from Albert who she was still in mourning for years later, but a photo and a handkerchief and a lock of brown hair, so definitely John Brown played a pretty major role and Victoria's life, but by eighteen. Eighty, seven, four years after Brown staff Victoria was once again a fully active monarch. Her her little point popularity had come around eighteen seventy and had been steadily on the uptake than that by eighteen. Eighty seven. She was fully reform and she was more popular than she had been in a long time in the year. Conveniently marked her golden Jubilee witches fifty years as the reigning monarch, yes
had a lot of people in from all over to celebrate with her, including some indian royalty, and so for you wanted to indian servants to wait on them and that's how she first met Abdul Karim and it It was a twenty four year old from Ankara and he had been recommended to Victoria thy his superior officer at the jail where he worked as a clerk, so the this thing he does when he gets to London is towards the city vis. The zoo he also visits manatee so's, which is just in everything now Philip waxes, the new exclamations. I thought crossing there was the new exclamation afterwards and all those women's history month, episodes Money Vinos, maybe you just have a lot of new themes- will feel what comes out on top and the end. So after he does. This little tourists thing in London. He meets up at the queen. Her first impression have him are well exhibited, I think in this quote- she says the one Mohammed book which is the other one as very dark with
very smiling expression and the other much younger, called Abdul Karim as much lighter tall and with a fine, serious countenance fathers and native doktor at all grow. They both kissed my feet, there, you go, I guess a good first impression from Victoria she like them, she call them back later and we no much else about Mohammed. We do know that within the year Karim had graduated way above waiting table. He was sampling hurry with the clean, which became one of her dining favorite than he was king her Urdu in Hindi, and she really well The two she's up in Europe that she completely throws herself into her studies trying to man are these languages and eventually produces a thirteen volume. Hindostanee diary and I'm just gonna, give you the description, from the royal website, where you can actually see one picture of a page. from these diaries.
really hard to understand the true relation process that Abdul Karim and Victoria worked out. The hurried up. It is thought that queen victoria- RO, the english text at the bottom, that Abdul coming then wrote the middle faction with the english text put into the correct word order for the Hindostanee translation in the head stani words the low in english script and that, finally, the We wrote the text in order, characters so That's a language is going on help with grammar and vocabulary and guessing. I knew he also made her a phrase buck with, with the same, oh every day, sort of phrases copied out in an angle, size versions her. She could just look it up and Nevertheless, they what she needed to to whatever print she was talking with, but Karim still there have an official position, even though he is clearly with her quite a lie.
So after a year he thinks his work is to menial. Considering has experience in India and he wants to go home so Victorie. Doesn't want that to happen, and so she promotes him to official when she and indian clerk to the queen so he's basically her personal secretariat. That plan on personal teachers to an her personal teacher, so its high rolling for him from thereon out. He starts mingling with the bigwigs on his annual trips to India by eighteen. Ninety, he s, servants of his own eighteen? Ninety one and he's allowed TAT curious sword and where traditional dress yeah and he brings ever his family to Victoria, confirm that he might miss his wife back home in India, though he brings her over. I think he brings his neck word and where traditional dress yeah and he brings over his family to Victoria concern that he might miss his way that is an understatement, their lavishly, I created lovely homes. He even gets his own cottage at Balmoral, name for him, Kareem's cottage, or at least that Victoria's nickname for it and
Father notably, becomes the first to smoke a hooker at Windsor Castle, which, with kind of a big milestone, KIDS Victoria, did not like smoking at all in her present. Yes, though, she kind of embrace this family and though she refuses to confer knighthood on Karim. She grows closer and closer to him. She writes several letters a day signing some with quote your loving mother or your closest friend or with kisses according to the BBC yeah. She also breath friends his wife and offers him advice on the couples, inability to have children so getting really per sorry, I'm a ladder area and she sent them a Christmas tree in eighteen. Ninety three and also seeks out his advice, Tuesday, children, so getting really personal radiometer land area and she send them a Christmas tree. three in eighteen. Ninety three and also seeks out his advice to theirs it's not just getting into super person, all husband and wife business that she's asking the government in India to because, as a month
Indian Koreans opinions tended to side with his own people and now Everyone in India under Victoria government thought that was a very good idea, but victorious family doesn't just upset about his influence in her politics. There also upset just by how close here, the sixty something you're old woman and this young indian man in his twenties and especially when surprise, surprise they to spend a night together in the same Highland cottage that Victoria would visit with John Brown. This just did not seem ok to the royal family it's a little fishing, so it comes back to them. I guess one Victoria dies when she dies or family they. Follow her wishes and they allow Karim to serve as one of the principal mourners, but as soon as its over her son, now Edward the seventh fires Karim and orders that the records of their relationship kept both at his UK and Indy Holmes be destroying here, but we are lacking,
Think that listens solely related to the relationship of Victoria and Abdul Korean, because it's actually in keeping with the general revisionism that victorious children practice after her death. For instance, her daughter Beatrice copied In edited the decades and decades of journals kept by Victoria, she had kept journals and she was girl and her daughter literally copy them all out taking out the part she thought were inappropriate painstakingly right. I mean she even cut out images and things nowadays than in the new version again on the on the royal website. There are some copies of documents related relating to Victoria's life, and one of them is the diary tree right before she got married, so brilliant They would have pen to scandalous in that, and you can see little cut out where Victoria has sketched a profile of herself in her wedding had dress, and I guess Beatrice has felt the need to bring
the little picture but alter the text and copied out herself so in a similar fashion. They took the material from her time. Cream and sort of destroyed. I'll. Have my last it right, but there was still As evidence left to note Korea had had a very close relationship with the indian teacher of hers. For one thing, though, two stani journals kept at Windsor Castle there still there, although they have been translated at all. Until recently and letters Victoria wrote to other people that mention Karim yeah. For instance, she wrote a letter to her daughter, Becky saying that Karim was a very strict master about a perfect gentlemen, though they couldn't early. Trawl everywhere, had gone out about him and also since this was such a gossipy topic around court. There is. There are plenty of records about
this close friendship between the monarch in this man right. So there was enough information floating around out there for authors, Shrub Ani BAR sue to write a book about it right now, but the relationship between Victorian Karim. I should say, and while she was in India, promoting this book about Victorian Karim, she was contacted by. Surviving number of creams family who read about the book in a local paper. It turns out that, after dreams, death and nineteen o nine. The family had managed to keep some of his momentous safe, including a diary covering the ten year period between Victoria's, golden and diamond. You believe, since nineteen forty seven, they had kept this hidden in Pakistan for both who travelled to Pakistan and studied the diaries and the RO from Victoria that was signed in urdu and other keepsakes and updated. What is clearly this with good. formation to have and to add the whole thing there wasn't. A bombshell wasn't like some sort of concern
no letter that would really make this story, scandalous that the new information did mean story made international news, and we we mention a BBC article with all over the paper than March, because I dont think people really We will had forgotten how close Victoria was to this young man. Yeah I mean, even though it didn't reveal anything new it at least added. More information, more evidence the store. I think the iron interest interesting facts about it too. We have more quote than I mean I think the picture signed in the language she struggled so hard to learn, as is really interesting, but I asked the sort of half a listener request of myself and I know that some of you are really up on victorian indian policy and I'm just curious about any specific instances where Kareem's in it might have been seen and government. Because if that's what family and people in her governess
so worried that he would just have too much power and input. Is there anything that we can? Look I and say that well, that might have traced back to him in some way
so right to us. If you know anything will give you the email in just a minute, but before that we're gonna do most female email and he rode high parent, just listen to your PA cast on the night. I grew up and local levels is the point in that Charles Guiteau Mckinley, Batman didn't make an appearance before turning his attentions to politics and violent. He was actually a member of the United Community and despite their free love attitude, apparently no one wanted to use a twisting room with him. According to some thought, he was so unpopular that he earned the nickname Charles get out. He left in a half even tried to do noise, as I recall in many people, think it with in large part over his actual rejection. I remember when I first heard about
thinking that, if only he then more popular in bed, I never would have shot. One anyway love the high cast, and even though we all learned about an industry, I think you should deal presidential fastened. Hearing there definitely enough weird, fast bodies that nation that we ve either forgotten or never heard about, like ghettos connection. Naturally, I didn't see, listened and is terrible. Have a new book out. Europe is one of the older buck that mentioned this connection. You Anita, I just I was actually saving it. If we ever will now, we have an astronaut every now and then there is the fact that I'll keep on my back pocket for some dreamy future podcast.
That's a good idea is one case. This could also sounds like become a statement, never told you plug Cassie. I think, and sexual rejection drive you to murder, maybe look as to just that's mine Kristen after yet I hear that of. Thank you create sphere emo, couldn't resist it because Europe, the mention of the trysting room, but pretty pre, interesting stuff. So if any of you have any great stories like bad intentions to produce tied, castor, future pod cas, we love getting these entries from you guys do a lot of the work for us right S. History, pie tests has suffered stock com or you can look up on twitter admission, history or hunting, and you can also look up our blogs rights. Are you sure, can we are endeavouring to have you w that half the work tat com for more on this than thousands of other topics for the house to works? I come to learn more about the pond. Cast click on the pod cast icon in the upper right corner of the House of Lords and Ivan has arrived Download it today, and I do hope that the vote of stuff you mustn't Esther glasses, brought to you by Katy, keen I love Riverdale. So I'm really excited that the creator of Riverdale has a sparkling adventure in the big apple coming out, full of fashion drama in dreams colliding with real life, Thursday February six at eight seven central, it's the new Sea, W serious Katy, keen the big apple, better watch out, no matter fewer. What gets in the way the four friends we were part of the show are about to take a big old bite they take on the runway. The recording studio, Broadway am a social, seem there's so much high style has a new name, Katy, keen the fashionable
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