Liston is most known for a tale about how multiple deaths resulted from one of his surgeries. But that means that his entire biography as a surgeon is dominated by the apocryphal events of one day. So today we’ll unpack his career and ethics.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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day with eighty welcome to stuff you missed in history class production of I hurt radios, how stuff works well and welcome to the pond cast Iron Polly FRY, and I'm Tracy me with that. Today we are talking about Robert listed. You might have seen his name before. If you like to look at lists of crazy history facts. You comes up he's often characterized as a pioneer in surgery and when his name comes up probably seen that related to a rather horrifying tale about how multiple death resulted from one of his surgeries yet and the speed with which he performed such surgeries, which earned him the nicknamed the fastest knife in the West end, and that my be part of his story that particular surgery thing, but maybe not, but even if it is. That means that his entire biography is its carried forward. Today. As a medical practitioner,
to be dominated by the apocryphal events of one day, when he in fact had a lifetime of achievement and study and teaching in medicine. So today we're gonna, unpack, listings career and the way that he approached it and in some ways he really is sort of the prototype. For that exacting, but again, doktor truth that we see in fiction over time because he was exacting any was a very confident man but He was arrogant. He really kind of earned it. He advanced medicine significantly during his lifetime heads up there, surgery to yeah we're not going for Gore, but just didn't relaying the clinical details of what was going on in some of these surgeries, might get into places that the more squeamish in the crowd may not enjoy. Or if you have young listeners you might want to just preview. First again, we're not really belaboring any of the points or being particularly indulgent about them. But you know
facts of medicine or not. I was delightful to hear now, having reviewed this we're going out its its specific you know it's not wallowing in specified to Haiti, but is a very tricky thing when you're doing this research ago go. How exactly do I described this surgery with be in gross, but while being completely clear about what was going on me someone who is not a medical practitioner, yes, and why it mattered. Yeah I mean we're getting we're gonna get into the details about that, but these these things it came along with his reputation. There were reasons for all of them. He wasn't just like us see how fast I could do surgery for kicks like Cuba, yeah that's kind of how he gets portrayed as like almost like there, I be a maniac who just loves awake. do you quickly? Amputations, unlike thinks it's great and its. He does want to do them quickly, but there's a logic to it.
It's kind of a challenge- shoes, colleagues, to rise to level, all of which are giving get into yes, so listen was the son of a minister and inventor the Reverend Henry listing. Robert was born on October, twenty eighth, seventeen. Ninety four in west, four in Lothian Scotland rob Mother Margaret died when he was just six His father doesn't appear to have remarried after that. Listen was very clearly a very smart young man he enrolled in the University of Edinburgh when he was only fourteen that was having only been home schooled by the way, and just two years later he began his medical training. his mentor and teacher was John Barclay. One of Scotland's most revered, anatomists and Barkley actually taught his students outside the University of Edinborough system at his own private school and then an one thousand. Eight hundred and four, the university recognized that his courses were throw and rigorous enough students would be allowed to take the schools exams and receive a degree from the university listen studied with bar
for four years than at the age of only twenty became the royal infirmary of Edinburgh House surgeon. two years into that job. He enrolled in London's Rail College of surgeons to further his expertise and listen, did pretty quickly become a recognised expert in his field, but he also made a name for himself for being vocally, opinionated and kind of difficult to get along with. He would routinely and openly criticise his fellow doctors and he would patients that other surgeons thought were beyond help. His brow shhh approach to challenging his colleagues even led to a falling out with his meant or Barclay in eighteen. Eighteen, the two men had an argument which led to listen, starting his own anatomy class, it's of those stories that can go very like then. He sat there alone in a room, but instead, when he Started teaching he had a packed enrollment of six Students waiting to hear what he had to say on the ongoing friction that had surrounded, listen, eventually, lead
to change the venue for his work while he had been acting in Scotland, his willingness to operate on patients that the royal infirmary had rejected had led to rumours that he was or straining those kinds of things to build his own practice that these nations, but mounted against him of luring patients away from other doctors resulted enlisted being banished from the infirmary for a short time. the banishment was short, but the ill will between him and his fellow medical professionals remains yes, so this next section is not entirely document, so we have to say that a friend, but it's an example of some of that ill will and if it is apocryphal it kind of, is, I think, born of that ill will carrying over unbecoming this. Story. So there's this surprising aspect of listens story
during his time in Scotland, in that he was in close, close proximity to an infamous series of murders that took place in the late eighteen twenties the series of murders, the Burke and Hare murders are actually the subject of a podcast by previous hosts adherents of human history class. If you want the context for it, you can go back Listen to that, but exam. Finally, how close list came to all of this is a little bit of a matter of debate, but we're gonna give you the debris version of it two men, William Burke and William Hair, were both born in Ireland. They moved to Scotland and eighteen twenties in November of eighteen, twenty seven an elderly man died in the end where hair was the manager hair and his friend Burke, the man's body and sold it to surgeon. Robert Knox for seven pounds, ten shillings and while
first death had been a natural occurrence, the profit that was made from it prompted Burke and Hare, along with their common law wives, to lure a series of victims into the inn where they got them drunken and suffocated them. and they continue to sell these victims to Knox who gladly took them because bodies for research and teaching when really short supply there. That's also tested that past episode on Burke and Hare, and in Holly's in my previous episode on the doctors riot like why there was a shortage of bodies for medical study listed who, with a colleague of Knox, reportedly noticed that he suddenly had a regular supply of cadavers than he became suspicious of this story- goes that listed confronted Knox over this, while Knox was in the middle of giving a lecture and using a young woman body as his ill today, for example, for the lesson
after the men had words list and allegedly knocked his calling to the ground and then took the body of the women who was alive. to be a victim named Mary Patterson and then arranged for her to have a proper burial joke Abraham, This story is another that seems to have grown a little bit more from his legend than from any actual evidence. There's also like a whole other dimension to it, where there may have been some lasciviousness involved in how the body was being handled and that may have upset marks. I found mention of this whole thing in a book which indicates that the author of that book was told, follow this line, about a letter that list en route to a colleague in which he discussed his suspicions about Knox. Amy location and the body of the young woman The writer of that book does not appear to have seen the letter itself, so she is going by what someone told her existed, As is mentioned in that writing, it does not seem at all out of character for listen to have done something along these lines he,
it was off and on pretty for terms of his fellow surgeons, because he was very critical of them and he had a very strong personal ethical code. But we don't really know with any certainty. If any of this part of his story is true, earlier than usual for a break, but we want to keep the next phase of Liston's career altogether, so we're going to pass quickly for a moment for one of our sponsors. There's an episode of stuff. You missed in history, glances brought to you by eighty tea. Would you like to get the latest innovation and smart home security combined with twenty four seven monitoring from the most trusted name in whom security? If so eighty is for you, eighty has a team of professionals that will design and install a secure, smart home. Just for you- and there are eighty
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It was brought to you by eighty tee. This message has brought to you by eighty home security made easy. What does real protection mean for your home and business? It means the latest innovation and smart home security combined or twenty four seven monitoring from eighty, the most trusted name and home security. You get a team of professionals designing and installing a secure, smart home. Just for you, you get eighteen thousand employees, safeguarding you with connection to first responders. You get there. Sean's number one smart home security provider, you get a secure, smart home with everything from video doorbells indoor, an outdoor cameras, smart locks on lights, controlled from the eighty app or from the sound of your voice. You professionally monitored, carbon monoxide and smoke detectors, you get a system custom designed to fit your home. You get safety on the go in the.
Are or when your kids are at school. With the eighty t go up complete with an echo s button so go on secure your home or business. Today with eighty two We mentioned at the end of that last segment that we were not sure about listings proximity to the Burke here. Murders was entire. True in terms of him being involved with an altercation when Knox but what we do know is that, as a consequence of his general displeasure with his situation in Edinburgh and his ongoing troubles just getting along with everyone there when listen, was offered a job in London in eighteen, twenty eight, he took it that job was serving as professor of surgery at the University College Hospital. That was a new facility making list in the first to serve in that role and, consequently, very influential in how it was established within the hierarchy of the institution, and it was
our position that list and truly made a reputation for himself in a number of ways. When you ve had trouble getting along with people, it seems really convenient, does have a fresh new start. That's not only a new start for you, but also a brand new facility Heath and super like prestigious like you are like wow. That's an amazing job offers us. Yes, though Listen to our March twenty eighteen episode. On ignorance, some advice, you probably recall that he was a proponent of handwashing before a surgery and that he was met with significant resistance from other surgeons, but settled since Handwashing Crusade didn't start until the eighteen forties. There were other people that have similar ideas. Earlier than that, one of them was listed in the eighteen twenties. He was already thinking about cleanliness and hygiene and operating theatre. although he would entirely consistent about it here. There's one particular detail: it's like Yanks. By Emily wash his hands before surgery, and he also put on a clean.
who put on a clean surgeons apron before each procedure and he insisted on clean, sponges and dressings. They were soaked only in cold water, rather than any of the commonly used ointments or are other preparations which could potentially foster germ growth, It's interesting because at this time there was a little bit of cult of personality around surgeons, having kind of like these, it brings because it proved how much experience they had, whereas he was like no clean sharpened for no clean, sharpened, fresh every time, system also shaved, incision sites before beginning an operation. That was not common practice and he was onto something with their removal,
a per the World Health Organization's guidelines. Here, removal simplifies suturing and reduces the introduction of potential contaminants, but shaving aside, can also cause micro trauma to the skin, potentially contributing to surgical site infection. You'll often see that listed as just s, eye and medical literature, and to that end they suggest clippers rather than razors as a better option, but listen was removing hair from surgical sites before germ theory had its huge rise in the second half of the nineteenth century, and his motivation for hair removal and his just proclivity for general cleanliness might have just been a desire for tightening, but all of this certainly helped contribute to a safer environment for his work. However, he asked some habits that were less than hygienic and were the opposite of prayer any kind of sterile environment, including holding his knife in his teeth during procedures.
Which is unhygienic and also to horrifying Yes, it is This is often described as him being because he was very fast will talk about that in a minute He didn't want to put it down and he needed to use both of his hand. Sometimes you just It isn't over his mouth. I just watch Tracy get the worshipper imaginable, but ass. He had been with his colleagues in Scotland List in continued to be direct and sometimes brusque with both his p. Yours, and the students who worked under him for student than assisted him in surgery. He could be incredibly harsh if they made any mistakes. Outside of surgery. However, he was known to foster really good relationships with those same students. He would often invite them to his home for meals and have pretty
conversations and in these relationships he was very clear that the reason that he was so tough was because he was adamant that any small error could compromise the patient and to him. That is simply not acceptable. The thing that, eggs headlines when it comes to discussing Robert listing is amputations. There is. Valid reason for that he was very well known for his amputations. He did a lot of them and he was widening quick about it and he also completely changed the way that they were performed yeah. I had read one thing, but I didn't find corroboration that he notched that's that nice, that he used with each of his amputation, slake you'd put a notch on it and that it was discovered covered in these ticks no, no that's true or not, but this is her. We're gonna tell you to brace, because this is where things get a little bit graphic just because we We want to talk about the technique that listen used in amputations and why it was different, so
prior to him, amputations were generally performed using, what's called a circular incision and so to do this. The surgeon would position is armed sort of wrapped around the limo extremity that was going to be removed, and then he would make the cut using a circular motion around it kind of pulling the arm out and all It was the guilty method which had the benefit of being quick, the problem with both of these techniques was that the clothes, the amputation. The surgeon would then have to pull down skin and tissue around the severed bound to suture it, and that could be recalled and it could cause the patient, unnecessary pain and discomfort. During already difficult surgery and healing process, so listen to them. The technique for amputation that addressed this problem in his approach. The surgeon would first make a cut that ran parallel to the bone, starting below where the extremity was to be severed, and that way when turn, the knife to cut through the extremity, he would have a flap of skin left
behind that could be folded over the end of the amputation and that made a much convenient way to close the wound. Also, less painful yeah as part of his ongoing efforts to make amputation safer and faster, because we should mention that this was before the use of anesthesia patients might have sometimes been given alcohol or even laudanum or a bit of opium, but that was not common practice. and we don't really have documentation on which these patients were packed with any kind of help in that manner, but listen also invented tools to assist in the procedure. so. He required a long straight makes that had both edges sharpened and while he didn't invent the knife, names have been around for ever. This particular version of it came to be known as a listed knife and is big contribution to the tools, the trade was a locking forceps so that he can lock them down and control arterial bleeding. During
operation and that same type of locking, clamp or forceps continues to be used in surgery today, but the real reason that his amputations became so famous was because of how very fast he did it again here driven by the desire to minimize the time that the patient had to suffer for what, through had to have been just excruciating pain while being held down with no kind of effective sedative many articles that you see about him or use headlines, quoting him asking those in attendance to time have some of his third He is allegedly took as little as thirty seconds and he's also alleged to have completely severed and suture the leg of an adult man in two and a half minutes. He was focused on speed because he felt like the last time that a patient was left open. The less likely but their wound would become infected list in
also, a very large and powerful man. He was about six, but to and very strong, so part of his speed was because he could exert a lot of pressure on a cut to do this quickly and they are our stories of listed in being a showman about his work sort of courting the audience that was always on hand in his operating theatre, and he definitely did draw a crowd because his contemporaries recognized his skill in his innovation and his the occasion to excellence, and they wanted to see how he worked, so they could learn from him and whether he was show voting during surgery or he was just truly trying to simply show his work. As an educational tool to those in attendance is one of those things that shifts the little bit depending on what account your reading. He was a very confident man, so I have no trouble believing that he was you know pretty loud and boisterous when he talked through what he was doing with a patient. I feel like would fit in well with a number of fictional surgeons on grave anatomy.
With a number of fictional surgeons everywhere right, but he's a little sick he's a little Stephen strange he's he's all of them. Oh, there are several infamous surgeries that come up when discussing listings work. Mrs another moment where he might want to brace in I'm thirty. He wasn't removing a man's leg at the hip also remove the testicles as well and the other pretty notorious surgery. Is one that is often used to evidence of him being really overzealous. It's an incident in which he was said to have removed the patient's leg as planned, but he also removed at least two fingers from his assistance hand, he was holding the patient's leg and this stuff, We continue that in the long sweep of his cut, he also managed to Nick the coat of a spectator who had leaned into close. So
story goes that the patient and assistant both died of infection and that the spectator died of shock, Its tail is often invoked with a headline involving listens. Three hundred percent mortality rate but it is also probably apocryphal one of those stories that so fantastic and attached to such a big character, that it is sort of gain the life of its own, even without supporting evidence yet so the first of those two examples happened, the second, probably not. Yeah that was in an inadvertent, overcome on the first time Second, one does seem to be It may have happened, but we do not have sporting and that's what You do now as that even though well listen did lose patience at other. Sixty six invitations on record in his first five year is in London. Ten of them died I've actually better than the average in a lot of other hospitals. Lake having ten out of sixty six patients die, might sound terrified by today's standards, but it was
way better than so many other hospitals that were performing similar surgeries, where there was in a one in four chance, The patient wouldn't survive. If we, so sort of ad in the idea that he was known for taking patients that other people thought were beyond help, like an even more positive part of his equation yeah I mean he there, our stories of people of his waiting room just being perpetually full, because people were all very afraid of having invitations, of course, but they were more trusting of him than they were of almost any one else. Robert listen, we should say, was not only interested in teaching amputation, though he had very firm opinions and a lot of experience, and he used both to teach the next generation of surgeons how to hone their craft In eighteen, thirty seven he published his book practical surgery with one hundred and twenty engravings on wood, and then it was opted for. U S publication the following year, that was fun
Japan, one thousand eight hundred and forty by elements of surgery which also got an american edition, but that timer to two years that came out in eighteen, forty, two and in his writing. One of the things that he talks about is his three guiding principles of surgery that he felt that all doctor should follow. The first principle. list enlisted was an expert knowledge of anatomy. He believe very strongly that one must study and pray. On cadavers before ever being allowed to operate in any capacity on a living person The private but anatomy would be his governing guide as the surgeon, the needs The human body is obvious, but also anatomy form the foundation of his early studies with Barclay and listen second principle of surgical practice, and this is actually pretty groundbreaking for his time. Was you always factor in the patient's emotions? He was very conscious of the mental state of the people that he treated and he wanted physicians to be open with their patience and fair,
transparent, but also reassure them about the procedures that they were recommending, and meant they would follow, and if a pay It was truly filled with dread, cancelled, at best to postpone or even cancel the surgery, because he thought that was only gonna decrease their odds of making it through helpfully the third principle that less than out line was the need for courage on the part of the surgeon. There was no place Trepidation, surgeon might hesitate to long and consequently, doom a patient in addition to the invitations gone awry that we mentioned earlier. There was at least one other incident when list and self assurance, and his confidence led him to a quick decision with fatal results for his patient. So at once, when he was presented with a child who had a mass on his neck and list in believed that it was an abscess that was his assessment, and so he punctured it with a knife and it had in fact been an aneurysm and the child died. So it may sound surprising, giving his seeming
surprising, giving has seeming passion first surgery about list them. It was actually very conscious of the importance of trying to avoid unnecessary surgeries. He thought, the ongoing advancement of medical science would continue to allow pathology to better determine which patients would truly benefit from a surgical intervention verses. What should be treated with other non invasive methods and the preface of one of his books. surgery, he wrote quote. The functions and structure of parts are more frequently preserved. Uninjured mutilation is more rarely required, and operations are dispensed with the wider, the extension of pathology, the fewer the operations will be thus affording the best the criterion of professional attainment, who will question but there is more merit and saving one limb by superior, skilled and lopping off a thousand with the utmost dexterity facilities
opposite of everybody's impression that he was dislike, ready to run with as as possible yeah. He definitely gets characterizes pretty amputation happy, but in fact he's like no, that's the last possible option. Coming up we're gonna talk about an area of surgical work that is rarely discussed as part of listing career, but first we are going to take a quick sponsor break. ram trucks Motor trains back to back track of the year. We're not bragging about it. We're just being honest. landscapes. Changed and we changed with it stronger. more powerful, innovative and more luxurious
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drunk driving fatalities have fallen by a third in the last three decades. Drunk driving crashes still claim more than ten thousand lives each year and people are unaware that driving, while high can be just as dangerous in twenty fifteen, forty two percent of drivers killed in crashes, tested positive for drugs, not so harmless After all, is it and get this from twenty. Seventeen to twenty fifteen marijuana use among drivers killed in crashes doubled. The truth is driving while highs deadly, so stop kidding yourself if you're impaired from alcohol or drugs don't get behind the wheel. If you feel different, you drive differ Dr High gotta, do you, I drive sober or get pulled over. While amputations made Robert, listen famous. Significant contributions to the advancement of
stick surgery as well, and he wrote about this impractical surgery, particularly rhino plastic, in a section that is dedicated to discussing the restoration of lost parts at the time other surgeons, were known to mark the idea of plastic surgery, particularly methods and techniques of restoration that had been developed and other countries. So if you listen to our past episode on shrewder, you know indian physicians have developed, various plastic surgery is over the centuries, and many of listings colleagues found such concepts to be absurd, Third, there was definitely an element of racism in some of their mockery of it, of those Actors that had been mocking plastic surgery, listen, wrote, quote: put scoffer in place of the patient. Let him loose his nose, reputable or otherwise. Allow him some weeks of consequent misery and degradation then bring him into contact with a dexterous surgeon who think.
not beneath him to make noses as well as stumps and thereon be little doubt that the Rhine, a plastic art we'll have obtained a zealous process, the light, listen, incidentally, performed the forehead rhino plasticity, was developed in India that we talked about in that's a shrewd episode asked the case in all other aspects of surgery. Listen was exacting and any plastic surgery procedure that he dead. He was dismayed that is, contemporaries were so sloppy when repairing left lips, because he felt, but a good surgeon should be able to achieve an almost imperceptible scar and listen, did have a reputation for impeccable work with left lips surgeries and establish standards for reconstructive surgery at the time that a lot of other people in his field had the kind of struggle to catch up to yeah. He was quite ahead of its time in that regard, at least in em, in western medicine,
there's another aspect of his story, which is noteworthy and that is it on December 21st, one thousand eight hundred and forty six Robert Liston made history as the first surgeon in Europe to perform an amputation using anesthesia the idea. came from the United States. Specifically, a Boston dentist named William Thomas Green Morton In a very short period of time, medical professionals in Britain went from having first heard of ether is used to actively using it themselves a letter from Austin, describing its use had arrived in London on December. Seventeenth, just four days before listings use of ether in those Four days the doktor who had received the letter Doktor Frances Dispute and that his dentist friend James Robinson had put together an inhaler for either by adapting existing piece of technology called a noose apparatus that was intended to make carbonated water yeah. Two glass vessels than they were kind of using those too. As for the administration of ether and
and Robinson's ether. Administering apparatus works, but not consistently, so they work to improve it, again was happening like over the course of twenty four hours and when list him got wind of what they were doing, he pay The two men call and kind of got up to speed with. Where would they were at an end? He collaborated with William Squire one of his students who had brought with him on that visit and Peter. Squire Williams, uncle to further refine the ether inhaler. Introducing regulating valves in a letter to a friend, listen describes a device. This way quote it is over. The bottom of Nous apparatus, with a sort of funnel, above with bits of sponge and, at the other whole a flexible, tube and so December twenty first list and removed the lower leg of a patient named Frederick Churchill, while Peter Squire administered the anesthesia through the inhaler Churchill, not related to Winston Churchill was soon subdued by the ether endless than was able to perform the surgery just a few minutes after
The procedure was finished. The patient awaken been asked when the operation was going to start. This caused the spectator, on hand to laugh, and then that made Churchill nervous he tried to back out of the surgery is still not realising that had already been done and then when the horrific experience that he get anticipated happening. And at this point Robert listed reportedly announced quote this Yankee Dodge beats mesmerism hollow This point. Mesmerism had been pitched as a potential treatment for surgical pain. It was something that list and had never believed in terms of efficacy, and so he was perfectly. we think he had you. Either successfully. considering that in adopting the idea of using either so readily less than was essentially ending part of the need to speed through surgeries and ending the very practice for what He was so well known, he's so made quick work.
There were still reasons yeah he justice as medical professionals. Today he did not want to keep patients under for any longer than necessary, especially at this. you know either very new. There have were certainly some accidents that happened following this initially use, but it was It's kind of one of those interesting things where people talk about him being such a show voter in wanting attention. But then he quickly, after the technology that that would get rid of the thing that he was allegedly show voting about, so it there's some contradictory. Some contradictory impulses there, on December seventh, eighteen, forty seven less than a year after his headline making use of anesthesia rubber Robert Churchill Robert and died at the age of fifty three. in the journal, the Lancet, his death was announced with the following opening quote. It is feelings of inexpressible regret. I regret in which an entire professional sympathise that we announced death of Mr List in our work
It is for a great surgeon and a personal friend the profession has had in him one of its most distinguished ornaments one who, as a scientific operator, had not superior in this country throughout Europe or the World Bank. but went on to report on Robert listens final Danes as relayed by his personal doktor, MR carriage. And had a series of symptoms, all of which seemed pretty minor on their own, including an occasional carve. A fleeting feeling of construction in his throat and a slight difficulty and swallowing he had experienced, incident in which he coughed blood, which is definitely more alarming, and there was also no obvious source for it. According to his doctors, system had believed that he had an aneurysm at that point, but his positions were reluctant to agree with him. He rally for a time and then, throughout the autumn of eighteen, forty, seven, his health declined until his death
post mortem examination, which is also reported in great detail in the lancet revealed that listen had in fact been right about his own diagnosis all along and that he had in fact died of a large aneurysm near his heart so, even without in in any sort of evidence of what was going on, he had kind of intuited what was up some people point out as additional evidence of his his go insight this Robert list and who is, to my mind, a lot more complicated than he did a lot of invitations and killed some people prefer it yeah, sir. I that's kind of way wanted it. Do it episode on him, because he I I often see that headline of like three hundred percent mortality rate, my like yeah, but so out of it, to have gone on their duty, and we don't know if that's true yeah won't even just the fastest knife part is like you. It wasn't the fastest knife, because he was just trying to be the fastest for no reason. Yeah
he was now racing for fun. He was really trying to take care of his pace, which was also why he could be briskly to his his colleagues when he felt that they were not prioritizing taking care of their patients. He's an interesting, interesting gent, I have listener mail. It has nothing to do at all with any kind of surgical. Anything that would make you squeamish, it is applied the card from our listener Susan, I think again scarred Securing of some writing always happens and it's a picture Cincinnati River boats and Susan rates, high tracy and highly. I have been abundantly blessed. My work took me to the New York City area for four years, and now it brought me back home to a hotbed of history. I would love to see her smiling faces in Cincinnati. The other
become sort of appear, say because we talk about this on the show periodically, and there is an ethic you on our website dimensions it, but I also just wanted to make sure we reviewed for any of our listeners at my nano we do get questions about. Will you come to our town still end for insight into how all of that works? We, of course we want to go everywhere. We want to see everybody that wants to see us but a couple different things that factor into that one. If it's a tour that we are putting together ourselves with our company Those are based on my numbers of downloads and and demographic data, about what cities where most popular in so that we can maximize are our best. From that effort and then also what the venues are like they're like we have a sizeable number of listeners in place, but the only venue that would really be available holds two thousand people like that's more. People than are probably going to come to our shall not become
we'll trickier. Yeah. There's thirst like math involved us paying for the venue and whether or not that money would come back right etc. It's a very boring series of algorithms travel from one place to the next place lay. It seems like very easy thing, but it is complicated. It's fun also complicated The other way, though, that we end up Doing live appearances in various places that are not necessarily part of a tour is only get invited. So if you think that wish come to your area, it's worth talking, the people at like conventions or libraries, museums, part works. We ve done all of those talk to the people where the book their programming and mention that you would like to see us, and maybe they will extend this invitation and then we will come now is exactly the advice that kid you ask me so yeah that those are great ways if you are in a city, we have not been too or maybe
friendlier, and you want to come back. You could do that. You could reach out to places nearby you that might be a good thing for us and see if they would be interested in having us they may or may not. But that's one way to try to stir that One thing in the motion, so you would like the right to ask whether you want to stir in appearance and emotion or not. You can do so. It is replied cast at how stuff works dot com. You can also subscribe to this by cast an we hope. You do me. I heard radio app Apple podcast or wherever it is that you lose it Finally, on social media missed in history, stuffy missed an historical ass, the production of a heart radios. How stuff works for more upon casts for my how radio visit thy heart, radio, Appleton guests or wherever you listen to your favorite, shows what is
That makes us human connects us. Remember taxing my hasn't videos, I've heard saying I I found the perfect dog. What are those moments that turn the ordinary into extraordinary, and I saw him- and I just went that's my case. Like he's mine on call involve close to the new podcast love. What matters presents your story, which shares real stories of love and compassion from real people all over the nation. Listen unsubscribe. When I already or apple. guests or wherever you wasn't upon guests.