In November 1917, guards at the Occoquan Workhouse assaulted and terrorized 33 women from the National Woman’s Party. They were serving sentences for charges like “obstructing sidewalk traffic” after peacefully protesting in front of the White House.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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We continue stuff, you missed in history class from Housetop works. Tat come come well and welcomes the Pontiac Times Breezy Wilson and I'm Holly prime. We have got a few episodes in our progress archive and acts in some way to the movement for women suffrage in both the United States. Emmy pay one thing that come up a few times. The most shows is violence committed against women who were protesting further
the vote, often at the hands of law enforcement, for example, in our two partner on society. Leaped thing we talked about a protest in London that came to
his black Friday and that's what about two hundred protesters from the women's social and political union were assaulted by police outside of parliament and the United States,
We have alluded to, but never directly discussed a similarly infamous event, and that was the night of terror, which was a November nineteen. Seventeen incident in which the guards at Occoquan Workhouse, assaulted and terrorized thirty three women from the national woman's party. They were part of a group known as the silent sentinels. They were serving sentences of up to six months for charges like obstructing sidewalk traffic after peacefully protesting in front of the White House, so we're gonna start by taking through a really quick recap of women
average organizations in the United States, because this whole story grows out of a series of ideological splits that happen within the movement. There were, of course, other suffrage organizations, besides the ones that wherever
talk about all with their own goals and strategies, but these are the ones that are directly connected to today's story. The Seneca falls convention in eighteen, forty eight, which we ve talked about before it was the first dedicated convention for women's rights,
I did states and at the time that I'd be of women. Getting the right to vote was really pretty radical. The resolutions that add the rights of out to the convention's declaration of sentiments path by only a very narrow margin. After the Seneca falls Convention, women's rights, leaders and organizers continued to me at national and local conventions for more than a decade before the movement was put on hold,
during the civil war and once the war was over, women's rights leaders found common ground with people who are trying to protect the rights of newly freed slaves and other black citizens, and the result was the American Equal Rights Association formed in eighteen, sixty six, which was dedicated to pursuing equal rights for
all citizens. This organization didn't last, though, three years later,
these at its annual meeting, disagreed over whether to support the fifteenth amendment to the constitution, which had been passed by
Congress and was awaiting ratification by the states, the fifty amendments
seed, voting rights without regard to race or prior condition of servitude, but it didn't have any mention of sex. The result of this disagreement was a schism within the organisation
and be Anthony and Elizabeth Katy Stanton launch the national woman Suffrage Association dedicated to fighting for voting rights only for women
He Stone Julia Ward, how and others who supported the fifteenth amendment formed the M
can woman suffrage Association. We talk about
nor the details and our past broadcast on all of this and how that separation took place in our upset about Frederick Douglass there as part of this long arc. But we don't want to repeat all those details again here.
in eighteen, ninety, after twenty one years of operating separately from one another, the amiss
Can woman Suffrage Association and the national woman Suffrage Association once again merged forming the nest
american woman Suffrage Association or an aid w s a there's. Some disagreement over whether to spell out the letters or to say now that its leaders included Lucy, stone, Sousa, be Anthony
Isabel Katy stems, though, basically, the leaders of the previous organizations that had combined and its purpose was once again to secure the right to vote for women. This time the strategy was to start
small and to get individual municipalities and states to grant women the right to vote according to this strategy, getting enough state to state success would put pressure on the federal government of half a nationwide legislation for women suffrage, and this brings us at last to the women directly.
Moved into these episode, even though it focused on winning the vote state by state and not through Congress. The end aid
USA, never disbanded its congressional committee and in nineteen, twelve Alice, Paul and Lucy Burns were appointed to be the committee's joint chairs. Both women heads
some time in England and they'd been involved with Emily Pink Hearst in the women's social and political union. That was the more rights
nickel arm of the Suffrage movement in Britain is members were the ones proudly reclaiming the derisive nickname of suffrage jets, Paul and burns were
actually familiar with W S. P tactics like vandalism and hunger strikes, which were intended to aggressively draw attention to the issue of women's rights and to put pressure on the government were a solution. Paul and burns had actually met
The first time at a police station in London after being arrested at a protest pollen burns,
wanted the any w essayed to adopt at least some of the w as peace tactics and they weren't at all content to allow the congressional committee to languish as the organization focused on local and state rather than national efforts. So they can
in the end that the USA to organise an enormous protest parade, the woman suffrage progression to be held on March Third, nineteen thirteen, and to be accompanied by open air meetings and speeches this day was chosen for a specific reason. It was the day before the inaugural
of President Woodrow Wilson. The aid that the USA was no stranger to parades braids were a long standing part of the organization strategy, along with organizing conventions and meetings and publishing, literally hundreds of books and pamphlets, but the nineteen thirteen percent.
Was much bigger than anything that enable the USA had arranged before, but it was also in
to be a national event rather than a local or regional wine between five thousand and eight thousand marchers were involved in this parade. Along with twenty floats, nine marching bands and for mounted brigades, it was to end with an allegorical tableaux outside the: U S, Treasury building, in which women who were dressed as liberty, justice, charity, peace and hope, with symbolic
around a central figure representing Colombia leading the parade was activist and labour lawyer. I have mulholland
name ring the bell from from past podcast. She later married, you didn't, was of an who remarried Edna statements, em away after all, HANS death
to be wells. Barnett also marched in the parade with the Illinois contingent, refusing to comply with the racial segregation that organizers were encouraging for the participating groups. Other well known, participants included Helen Keller, Nellie, Bligh and Catherine Extra Mccormick. The raid started off well aside from a delay in getting started, but as it move down Pennsylvania Avenue, the street became completely blocked by a huge crowd of spectators, most of the men who had come to Washington for the inauguration as the crowd closed in on the marchers. They were trapped in addition to heckling, taunting tripping and even assaulting the marchers, the men who vastly outnumbered the whip,
blocked the parade route completely, including trapping ambulances. In this log jam more than a hundred women were injured and had to be hospitalized. This also completely take the crowd away from the train station that was intended to meet the incoming president. So when Woodrow Wilson got off, his train was like. Where is everybody? People said they are all?
suffrage? Braid police overwhelmingly did not intervene and this chaos they didn't really do anything to maintain crowd control as the spectators completely blocked the street. A cavalry union had to eventually be dispatched from Fort Meyer to restore order. Police chief, Richard Sylvester, weathered heavy criticism over the handling of the march, especially since
no similar incidents on inauguration day. The next day. This led to a congressional investigation that
ultimately, exonerated Sylvester of malicious intent toward the suffragists, while also criticising his lack of action on the day, even though he was ultimately dismissed as police chief alot of people in the suffrage movement, but like the whole incident about whitewashed found
The parade, the any w essay was worried that Paul and burns were simply too radical that their methods were too aggressive and that they might turn to the sorts of vandalism and property damage. That was becoming a hallmark of the movements, most radical wing in the United Kingdom. So in nineteen thirteen pollen burns struck out on their own to form. The congressional Union for women
suffrage or see you. They remain involved with the any W Essays Congressional Committee for a time, but their ideological differences ultimately led the two organisations to sever all ties with one another. You here over
over again, when reading about this that Paul and burns were just see radical, and I was expecting in doing the research that I was going to find that they were doing things like setting people's houses on fire, which was happening in the end, the UK. Now that was not what was happening at all.
you're going to talk about more in a minute. They were really not actions that we would consider radical today in nineteen, sixteen, the two women established be woman's party of western voters. Several states in the West had already granted women the right to vote,
this party encouraged the women who were living in those states to vote for candidates who supported women's rights in a national push for women suffrage. This included campaigning against Woodrow Wilson, since no progress has been made towards getting women the right to vote during his first term in office. Meanwhile, to see you continued working toward voting rights in the states where women still couldn't vote, then in nineteen seventeen, the two groups merge to form the national woman's party or end W p. The silent sentinels who were arrested in nineteen. Seventeen were part of the invalid
p and we're gonna talk more about that after we first pause for little sponsor break this episode of stuff. You missed in history classes, brassy you by W W, formerly wait watchers, they have launched a new might be to be programmed at their most groundbreaking and customize programme. Ever I joined Debbie W because I was really looking for something that was going to help encourage me to make healthier eating choices. They have really done that when you joined them W W program, you will take a personal assessment. It ask a question
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after Woodrow Wilson, was elected to his second term as president and nineteen sixteen, but Master woman's party decided to put more direct pressure on the White House and Congress to make some kind of progress towards national voting rights for women. They became even more
determined to do this. After having a meeting with the president on January, ninth nineteen seventeen than which he told and W P members to concern public opinion on behalf of woman suffrage, the next day they started a protest directly outside the White House. That would continue for months. In the end, W Peas Weekly Journal, which was the suffragists Elizabeth Katy, stands daughter. Harriet Stanton Blanche described it. This way quote, we must go to him every day. We must have a continuous delegation to the President of the United States if he is to realize
never ceasing insistent demand of women that he take action where he is responsible. We may not be admitted within the doors, but we can at least stand at the gates. We
I'll, be allowed to raise our voices and speak to the president, but we can address him just the same, because our message will be inscribed upon the banners which we carry in our hands. Let us post our silent sentinels at the gates of the White House and, as is the process that was views and extremely radical at the time standing outside the White House, with banners silently Lucy Burns played a huge part in this protest. She was often the one.
Meeting the pickets. You silently demonstrated outside the White House every day, no matter what the weather sometimes enduring illness and frostbite and the process for the sake of both publicity
trying to draw more women into the movement. The protest sometimes had beam days, such as that particular college day, or what
women day that one was actually help.
some days, though, the women protesting could do it without losing a day's pay at first, the president tolerated their presence there in front of the White House.
On the way in or out of the White House, he would smile and took his hat and particularly cold days. He would invite them in for tee, although they consistently turned down that invitation and although passers by often heckled the silent, sentinels the protest gotta mixed, but overall, not violent reaction from the general public in its early months. All of this changed when the United
entered world were one on April sex, after which point the silent, sentinels and started encountering more and more resistance to their pick. It outside the White House. Many people already felt like their place, was at home, not picketing. On the sidewalk. There also
calls for national unity in the face of the United States, involvement in the war and a growing sense that it was just not the time for women to be focused on their own voting rights rather than other national concerns. Passers by started more aggressively harassing the women they were protesting and the president eventually lost his patients as well. He had previously told the Daisy police to leave the women alone as long as they weren't blocking the sidewalk, but he finally rescinded that instruction and the first wave of arrests took place on Jim.
when he second nineteen seventeen that day, Wilson wrote a letter to his daughter in which he said that the suffragists were quote bent on making their cause as of noxious as possible, once again, by standing outside the White House with signs silently
currently between man and November of nineteen. Seventeen hundreds of women, including women, from at least twenty six different states, were arrested and charged with obstructing sidewalk traffic unlawful assembly orally nebulous violating an ordinance. Also, there are lots of pictures of this protest and they really consistently show the women who,
protesting either walking in a single file line or standing single file. Either right up
Announced or right in front of the White House Spence, they were definitely not obstructing the sidewalk. Although the espionage act had been passed in part to try to cut down on anti war protests and it could have been applied to the suffrage demonstrations as well, the women often carried large banners, emblazoned with quotes from the president's speech
about freedom and democracy. The administration was smart enough to know that it would not look good to use the espionage act to prosecute women who are carrying banners that were bearing the president's own words
So by July, after the the arrests had been going on for a couple of weeks, the president had started to consider the whole protest to be an embarrassment
actually than several prominent women were now in jail for it, so he pardoned all of the suffragists who had been incarcerated at first. They refused to accept his pardon, but then they did and then they went right back to picketing at the White House as the protest when on the banners the women were carrying became more and more provocative. One read Keyser Wilson: have you forgotten your sympathy for the Germans because they were not self governed? Twenty million american women are not self
government take the beam out of your own. I another read to the on voice of Russia. President Wilson and Anway route are deceiving Russia. They say we are democracy, help us win a world war so that democracies may survive.
we, the women of America, tell you, America is not a democracy
see million american women are denied the right to vote. President Wilson is the chief opponent of their national enfranchisement. Help us make this nation really free. Tell our government that it must liberate its people before it can claim. Free Russia
as an ally. As an aside. That is a lot of words to put on banners. They were
large banner. Yes, I have seen mom and I'm always
I am amazed that they manage to get all of that on paper, but just in case people were wondering. Yes, all of those words were on banners
these banners particularly outraged members of the military, some of whom began harassing and eating even assaulting the suffragists, as well as destroying their banners. Police did little to intervene other than arresting the picketers themselves. In October DC police announced that anyone arrested for protesting outside the White House would be sentenced to six months in prison.
For obstructing the sidewalk, when normally if anyone was obstructing the sidewalk, it was the people protesting that our people heckling them not the protesters themselves, but they brought those hecklers to the sidewalk is the logic that probably got used to the fact that neither the less
persisted with Alice Paul, leading the picket line from the MW p headquarters to the White House itself, the very next day after that announcement was made. Carry
a banner that said the time has come to conquer or submit, for there is, but one choice we have made it as promised. They were once again arrested, convicted and imprisoned as this cycle of arrests and incarceration war on law enforcement tried a new approach, making the whole process so unpleasant and humiliating that perhaps the women would just give up conditions were poor at every prison in workhouse in the area, but an article on workhouse. They were particularly bad silent, sentinels started being transferred to the workhouse from the more common
use district jail at the workhouse, their personal possessions, including toiletries toothbrushes than combs, were confiscated and they weren't, given any kind of replacements. Apart from one single bar of soap, that was shared by everyone in the dormitory, most of the suffragists were actually afraid to use this communal bar of soap. Due to the risk of spreading disease. The women who are typically incarcerated at the workhouse had very little medical care, and some of them had active infections of
visas, like tuberculosis and syphilis. The food was largely inedible and infested with worms, dead flies and mouse droppings, usually the.
Only water available. Was it an open bucket that was shared by everyone? Betting was so filthy that the matrons who had to handle it during inspections and searches did so wearing gloves. Although these women were still expected to sleep on it, the suffragists were also denied exercise, reading and writing materials. Legal counsel and visitors. Prison authorities also tried to make the silent sentinels uncomfortable by using racism as a wedge. They integrated the dormitory where the suffragists
This was obviously during the Jim Crow era. Still they arranged the bed, so they alternated with a white suffragist in one bed and then a black woman who was often serving a sentence for prostitution and the next bed. They also assigned some of the suffragists the job of repainting, the quote colored restrooms. Meanwhile, many of the suffragists tried to make the argument that they should be treated as political prisoners and not common criminals. They tried to advocate for better conditions, sometimes for themselves and sometimes for the workhouse population as a whole. Suffragists who made a fuss were punished for it. At least one matron was fired, allegedly for treating the incur
greeted suffragists. Kindly as all of this stretched on several of the suffragists turned to a tactic that had already been in use in the british movement for women suffrage, which was hunger strikes and ass, it happened in the UK. Prison officials are turning to force, feeding them, which was a painful, embarrassing and dangerous process. Although some people were forced bed in the workhouse Alice Paul was actually transferred to the psychotic ward of the district jail and enforce bed there. Three times a day on the night of November fourteen nineteen, seventeen conditions at Occoquan Workhouse got much worse. A group of women had been sent there after being arrested on the tenth, many of them for at least the second time. Occoquan superintendent, William H, Whittaker, told the facilities guards to teach the women a lesson. They were physically dragged from the dormitory and other common areas to quote punishment, cells and beaten. Many
them left, manacled or handcuffed overnight and threatened with being gagged and straight jacketed, an Yunus, Dana Brands. Account quote. I firmly believe that, no matter how we behave, Whittaker was determined to attack us as part of the government's plans to suppress the picketing. There were six to ten guards in the room others collected on the porch forty to fifty. In all these, in with Whittaker, when he first entered instantly the horror, the furniture was returned and the room was a scene of havoc Whittaker in the center of the room directed the whole attack inciting the guards to every brutality in the account of Mary Nolan age. Seventy three quote: I saw Dorothy day brought em the two men handling her were twisting her arms above her head. Then suddenly they lifted her up and banged her down over the arm of an iron bench. Twice, no one's account continues at the end of the corridor. They pushed me through a door. Then I lost my balance
against the iron bed. Mrs Kosis struck the wall. Then they through to match in and to daddy blankets. She continues a little bit later in her account quote. We had lain there, a few minutes trying to get our breath when Missus Lewis doubled over and handled like a sack of something was thrown in her head struck the iron bed. We thought she was dead, she didn't move, we were crying over her when we lifted her to the pat on my bed. Mrs Cos, you had a heart attack that night, which her cell mates believe was brought on by the horror of thinking that MRS Louis was dead and the guards are few to send a doctor. By this point, the silent sentinels had legal counsel working outside the prison to secure their release. This included Dudley Field Malone, who had run Wilson's RE election campaign in California and have been
actor of the port of New York before resigning in protest over the suffrage issue and, as they heard of the events of the night of the Fourteenth Malone and other lawyers obtained a writ of habeas corpus ordering that the incarcerated women be brought to court at first superintendent, Whittaker tried the high out in his home to avoid being served with the red when the suffragists finally appeared in court on November. Twenty third, a lot of them had to be kept
in on stretchers after their court appearance. A few of the women who were in the worst condition were paroled and the rest were sent to the district jail where the entire group decided to go on a hunger strike together. The district of Columbia couldn't afford to four to force.
so many of them, and that, combined with the ongoing legal action led to their release over November twenty seventh, the twenty Eightth and we're going to talk about what happened after they were released. But first we are gonna all take a little break and hear from one of our sponsors. This episode of stuff- you missed in history classes, brought to you by
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off ongoing spike all of demonstrations and arrests and imprisonments had roused some public sympathy for the silent sentinels, especially from several of the women involved, were the wives or daughters of prominent man. This is even more true, as the word started, to spread of conditions that both the workhouse district jail. Photographs of
recently released women wrapped in blankets and clearly traumatized on their way out of the facilities, played a role in garnering sympathy as well. Eventually, a district court ruled that their arrests had not been justified in the first place and ordered the District of Columbia to pay all the court costs, superintendent, Whittaker and Louis Zinc, M warden of the district jail or both suspended and later fired, o the high profile
rests in the incidents that had happened while the women were incarcerated really started to make suffrage a moral issue for President Woodrow Wilson and running into
with the women from the and the being arrested and incarcerated in and having a whole high profile
behind bars the National American,
woman. Suffrage association had also framed itself as a patriotic organization supporting
war effort, while also diplomatically making a case that the United States making the world safer democracy included, enfranchising all of its own citizens at home, not just the male ones. So, with pressure coming from multiple directions in January of nineteen eighteen, after years of being coin and evasive, at best, Woodrow Wilson publicly announced his support for the constitutional amendment. Four woman suffrage that had been introduced all the way back in eighteen. Seventy eight and failed every time it had come up for vote even with the president's support there. Oh, it still didn't have enough congressional support to pass in both houses of Congress and nineteen eighteen. So the end up Eu Peek, at dawn with its protests, still getting arrested in cycles throughout all of this. They started lighting what they call
watch, fires of freedom outside of public buildings. These were earns in which they set fire to the texts of Wilson speeches that related to freedom and democracy. They also embarked on a cross country. Speaking tour in prison garb called the prison special, as I mentioned earlier, they kept being arrested and I kept being incarcerated, but there wasn't
the incident as dramatic as the night of terror. Finally, after a nineteen eighteen election cycle in which the any W S aim the end up, will you p and other organizations had aggressively campaigned for candidates? Who would support the amendment the House of Representatives past it in May of ninety?
nineteen in the Senate followed in June for a MER, the nineteen amendments needed to be ratified by thirty six of the then forty eight states, the W p.
other women's rights organizations kept up with their advocacy all through the rest of nineteen nineteen and into nineteen twenty? A ratification flag hung at the end, the Bp Headquarters, with a noose
our sewn on each time a state ratified the amendment. The nineteen amendment finally got enough support from the states when Tennessee ratified it on August, eighteenth, nineteen, twenty
it was signed in the law on August twenty six nineteen twenty and with that, the end of a? U P, turn their focus to an equal rights amendment the any w S a eventually evolved into the League of women voters. The equal rights amendment could be a whole other pot cast.
So when we talk about the Nineteenth amendment a lot of times, we hear it as and then women have the right to vote, but the enable
U and the work throughout this whole period was overwhelmingly by and about white women, both organ
Nations, or really fearful of losing the support of southern white women and of southern legislators and generals that whenever the subject of race came up, they mostly works to appease Jim Crow attitudes, rather than actually working for the right to vote for all women and the enemy he's more radical tactics which really word what standing outside the White House. It's you got arrested at this point. They really effectively.
Excluded black women, a strategy that included picketing outside the White House and being arrested and incarcerated over and over was inherently far riskier for black women than for white women. Similarly, the ultimate effects of the Nineteenth amendment were focused on white women
when the nineteen amendment was signed in the law, combined with the fifteenth amendment to give all citizens the right to vote regardless of sex, race, color or previous condition of servitude. Both amendments were extremely straight forward on this point, with almost identical language, beginning quote, the right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or bridge by the United States or by any state on account of, and then the Nineteenth Amendment ends that sentence with sex. The fifteenth amendment ends it with race
where or previous conditioners of servitude, but in practice in the decades following the ratification of the fifteenth amendment after the end of the civil war, many states had passed laws that made no reference directly to race.
They selectively made it a lot harder for people of color, particularly black people, to vote Paul taxes disproportionately affected. The black population, who are often among the nations poorest citizens, especially since centuries of enslavement, meant that many black families had been prevented from earning any money impossible to pass. Literacy tests were subjectively graded by white government officials and in many states were only required of those whose grandfathers had not been registered to vote since most black citizens grandfathers
had not been allowed to vote. This meant that only black citizens had to take this impossible test and outside the realm of long white. Supremacist organizations like the coup, Klux clan, actively intimidated, threatened, harassed and even murdered. People to keep black citizens from voting
So, even though the letter of the nineteen amendment gave all women the right to vote and its often celebrated as all women getting the right to vote and practice black women
were overwhelmingly excluded from actually exercising that right, even after this
three men and the passage of the Civil Rights ACT of nineteen sixty four discriminatory laws that don't specifically mention race but disproportionately affect minorities, particularly black people continue to be an issue in the United States, sunlight of terror and its aftermath of actually. Why sometimes on the internet? There is this picture of a bunch of women and bathing seeds there actually eating pie, but the caption
circulates with this picture. All time is that its women in their bathing suits eating pizza during the suffrage movement to annoy men and it
rages me every time. I see it because the Suffrage movement was not a pizza party rate.
it was not then, to annoy men. It was done it a lot of personal cost to the women involved with it to get women. The right to vote is actually a picture of a pie, eating contest that
happened like waylay. It was not any kind of early suffrage thing. It was like way. Late in the whole movement had nothing to do with it, the piloting contest. So every time I see it, that's what are those things? It's always been.
so weird to me in that lake. Someone
some genesis point where they look at that picture and said you know what I'm gonna completely
about what this is
go out. I don't know, but you know,
I have an overall rule about correcting people on the internet and in its only to correct people, if your preventing embarrassment and were preventing harm- and I will correct people on that picture because I think its harmful to spread the idea that the Suffrage movement was
like oh, a whimsical, fun party time re embarked upon to annoy men like back it yeah.
Was a funnel activity for some ladys. What's up
remotely. Do you
pie even contests
now, my all but less Violets topic Ben Ben. This story has been today. This is
Sarah and acumen recently about our absurd about vetoes arbour, often- and it says the title of another Theodosius burst story.
and Ferris ass. He has been a fan of the show for many years and she learned this story on vacation in the outer banks. We did it go
were in media on Roanoke Island and the erosion of was one of the stories we heard. This is definitely a highly unlikely story, told and colorful embed
detail by our guide, who was quite a character himself. But it's interesting and paraphrasing his telling here the patriot was taking by pirates off the coast of MAX Head and it was extremely violent and traumatic for the passengers left alive to be ransomed, Theodosius became hysterical, direct quote: pirates
very superstitious by nature and the one thing that terrifies them as a crazy woman. It's bad luck to have one on your ship, so they put her ashore near
Eggs had left her there. She carried her portrait with her. She was found on a beach by a banker our first time hearing that term too, and he brought her home to his wife. She was physically ill and so traumatized by the events of the voyage that she had amnesia
But she couldn't tell them anything about herself or even her name. She remained living with the family and nags head keeping the portrait hanging near her bed, never able to recall her earlier life
many years went by, and so finally, in eighteen, sixty nine theodosius, very ill and the family called a doctor for her, the doktor cared for her ass. She passed away and the family who didn't have any money asked him if he be willing to accept something of value from their home in lieu of payment. He took the portrait ever since then Theodosius said to wander the beach looking for her lost portrait. Of course, the timeline here is pretty far fetched. The Eudocia would have lived to be eighty six years old. In this
Rio extremely unlikely, given her health problems, my sister and I did a bunch of reading up on the story and came across the various versions you mentioned and the show I just wanted to share one more with you. Thank you so much for the show we love it. Sarah, thank you for this stuff.
You say that it is easy to see pretty far fetched and it does sound so much like a story that you would hear, unlike a coastal historical to her
I went on one of Charleston one time and I had I to guide you was he was such a character and he was so funny and so knowledgeable and also he would say things and I would kind ago, I'm not sure if that's legit so anyway, if you would like to write to us about this or any other podcast, where history podcast at Helstone Work, stock com or also at missed in history all across our social media. And if you come to our website, which is missed in history, dot com, you will find showed oats rather episodes Hollywood. I have worked on it
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