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Sylvia Rivera

2014-10-08 | 🔗

Transgender activist Sylvia Rivera is often compared to Rosa Parks. She became famous, in part, for participating in the Stonewall riots, and she spent her life campaigning bravely, stridently and vocally for the rights of gay and transgender people. Read the show notes here.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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The twenty seventh love is a new park asked about famous musicians who died prematurely and sometimes mysteriously at the age of twenty seven. This pod cast is hosted by me, Jake Brennan Creator and hosted a hit music, untrue crime, podcast disgrace season, one features twelve upstairs and life and death Jimi, Hendrix twenty seven club contains adult content and explicitly you can listen to this one. Seven club, radio at Apple Pie, Casper every s, watch for years. Look into new stuff. You missed in history class from house up, works, tat, come in tracing the wealth and I'm only for space subject, which is transgender activists phobia.
There is often compared to Rosa parts, like, I would say, seventy percent of the articles, but I read researching this episode compared her two rows of parts where's apart, as you probably know, became famous in part or refusing to give up robustly on a segregated bus and Sylvia Rivera became famous in part for purportedly, throwing the first bottle at a police officer during the social rights, but really Rosa parks and failure of Rivera, although it could not be more different from each other Rosa parks. His case was chosen specifically to try to overturn a bust segregation and Montgomery Alabama, precisely because she seemed a really poor white. She was married. She was soft spoken. She went to church
had no criminal records are basically there was nothing in her background that might turn white people off to the idea that she deserve the same basic civil rights. The faded failure of error, on the other hand, has a lot more in common with Clodded Colvin, who was also arrested for refusing to give up a c on a segregated bus and Montgomery, but Clodagh Colvin did not become the household name that arose a pox did because she was an unmarried pregnant teenager who had a reputation for being a troublemaker. Civil rights lears deliberately didn't pursue her case because they knew it would be a hard winter when they held out for a more so,
old, respectable plaintive instead, and that brings us to Sylvia Rivera and the years immediately after the storm. All right, she campaigned bravely and stridently and locally for the rights of gay and transgender people, although the term transgender, which is used to describe people whose gender and identity doesn't match up with the sex that they were assigned when they were born, I that word had not coined yet, but Sylvia was also loud and aggressive and angry and poor, sometimes even homeless. She had a history of sex work and drug addiction her mannerisms or really flamboyant in your face. So when the gay rights movement started trembling towards so called respectability. Sylvie really pushed to the sidelines, along with a lot of other transgender people, see refused to be put in a box, and so she wound up being excluded from the very movement that she was fighting for, and she was for decades pretty much forgotten about. So before we get started, there's a war,
caution about the story, because Sylvia ran away from home when she was only eleven. Some of the events that happened to her, especially in her young life, are disturbing so parents and teachers before you share this with young people. I recommend listening to it yourself burst and, as a second note, some of the language that was used at the time that Sylvia lived and that she used about herself isn't the preferred language that we use today and will sort of point out those as they come up so now that you ve been worn rebel jump in as we usually
at the very beginning. Sylvia was actually born re Rivera on July. Second of nineteen, fifty one her mother was venezuelan and her father was Puerto Rican, Sylvie as mother committed suicide by eating rap poison. When Sylvia was three, she also tried to killed Sylvia at that time, but Sylvia survived and went on to be raised by her grandmother the heater the heater raised, both Sylvia Amphibious Half sister veto, was essentially functioning as a single parent. Her husband had abandoned her and Sylvia S, Father, who had also abandon the family, was not paying transport. Phobias grandmother was also very strict, although she taught Sylvia to cook into so internet. She really did not like it. When Sylvia started wearing girls clothes, the heater would punish Sylvia, sometimes physically, for wearing make up and for addressing in girls, clothing and Sylvia described in the
history, making history, the struggle for gay and lesbian, equal rights. Nineteen, forty five to ninety ninety, her grandmother would say: quote: we don't do this you're one of the boys. I want you to be a mechanic and Sylvia would answer. No, I want to be a hairdresser and I want to wear these clothes from Sylvia S. Point of view. Her grandmother also didn't like her, because her skin was too dark. She had heard a grandmothers they that she wanted a white granddaughter instead and the struggle between the two of them went on until at the age of ten Sylvia tried to commit suicide by taking her grandmothers pills, she wound up instead in the hospital for two so we are also faced bullying and harassment at school and in the neighbourhood as well. The other children and their neighbours didn't like her wearing girls clothing and they didn't like her feminine mannerisms
doing lonely. Isolated, am desperately at odds with everyone around her Sylvia left home at age. Eleven, the straw that really broke the camel's back with seeing how others treatment of her was affecting her grandmother, even though their relationship was often contentious and strained, and even I live so he did not like seeing her grandmother suffer over the way people talked about her after she ran away. Sylvia went the forty second street in New York City, which was a haven for cross dressers and street lockers. She had no other means to support herself, and so she turned a sex work, and I want to make it clear that there are people who choose to go into sex work, but at this time, Sylvia with eleven and she No other options. The areas drag queens, pretty much adopted her and they are the ones who gave her the name. Sylvia Sylvia was arrested frequently and her grandmother would come and bail her out
A few days shy of Sylvia S, eighteenth birthday, she went to the stone wall in for the first time, and this was June. Twenty eight nineteen sixty nine stone while and wise like many of New York spars that cater to the gay community at the time owned by the mafia. Homosexuality was a crime and so was cross dressing, so pretty The only people who are willing to operate businesses that cater to this demographic were also themselves. Criminals gave arsenal
did on a regular basis. Standard operating procedure was it, the police would come in, they would make arrests and confiscation, they wouldn't collective pay off, and then they would leave and pad locked the door behind them. Not long after the police had gone. Members with the mafia would come by cut the padlock off. They would then restart the alcohol supply and business would start right back up so that the people who didn't lined up getting arrested. It was more of a hassle and an interruption to their evenings revelry than anything else for people who did get arrested. It could be way way harder and not just for the fact that they were taken to jail, but often in jail.
Then taunted and sometimes beaten and sometimes assaulted by other people who were in the jail on June. Twenty Eightth when the police came in most of the patrons went through the park across the street to wait and they were tired of being hassled. A lot of people say that this was because it was the same week. The Judy Garland died and doesn't seem through the oral histories to actually. add up necessarily, but it's more like a coincidence that cause and effect situation right. At some point, somebody started throwing coins at the police officers yelling things like here's, your pay off and get the more, and then things started to escort people started, throwing bottles and molotov cocktails. Sylvia is widely cited as the first to do this, but near the end of her life. She really work to try to dispel this idea saying that she was in fact the second to throw a bottle. Soon, the police were pinned down.
inside the bar with the protesters outside and the riot, went on until reinforcements arrived and dispersed the crowd? The All right wasn't remotely the first event in the modern gay rights movement. It wasn't even the first Riah in an establishment that was frequented by algae BT people. An early earlier example was a riot coopers doughnuts in LOS Angeles, in nineteen sixty five and in that event, drag queens and gay men, many of them blacker, Latino, fought back against police first by throwing doughnuts, which sounds or too funny and then with hand to him fighting much. Funny in San Francisco, a picket protest among elderly BT protesters turned into a riot at competence cafeteria in nineteen. Sixty six, but still more
really did act as a sort of tipping point in a rallying cry. Definitely the most famous today for sure that there are several things about the riots and phobias friends there that our cause for debate today, one is just how much of the stone while ends clientele was made up of cross, dressers and transgender people. Now, as we mentioned before, the term transgender had not, we ve been coined at this point in history, but when it was coined about ten years later, a lot of the people who would identify as cross stressors or as transvestites at the time then went on. And if I asked trench enter so we're going to keep talking about both cross dressers and transgender people, both for the rest of the episode, because they are two different things, cross dressing is about the clothes you have on an transgender is about your gender expression, so your expression of that the gender that you that you are inwardly,
versus the clothes that you have on your body in filled? His own words, cross dressers could only get anything new somebody because cross dressers were really frequently targeted by the police, though a lot of businesses but like it was too much of a hassle to deal with them. Other people have characterized the stone, while in is a haven for Cross stressors Amber transgender people and their equitable historians on both sides, another bone of content, is actually whether Sylvia herself was even there. She says she was, and, of course, she's often credited with being the first bottle thrower, but historians have not been able to corroborate her presence there through eyewitness accounts. In the end, it doesn't necessarily matter how many and vendor patrons the stone while in had or whether Sylvia was actually there that night. What does matter is that Serbia and the rest of the cross dressing and transgender community became vocal, aggressive campaigners for them.
Of gays and lesbians, bisexuals and all manner of people he just didn't conform to gender norms. They were in many ways the people who were the most visibly on the forefront of the fight for equality and worst of all rights and we're gonna talk more about what happened after Stone Wall right after a word from our sponsor. If that is cool Tracy, it is this episode of stuff you miss than his request, Brought to you by love book, if you ve ever wanted to share a love story with somebody, but you weren't really sure how to start that is where love book comes in. These are totally customizable books that you can give as gifts to the people that you love and care about. Most people use them to list out the reasons why they love someone. You can create character
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Sylvia Rivera had already been active and racial equality and anti war causes before the Stone Wall Riot and after that, I see immediately passionately turn her attention to the growing movement for gay rights to gay rights organizations formed in New York in the wake of the riot, that was, the gay activists alliance and the gay liberation front and Sylvia was active in both of those groups as part of the gay activists alliance, Sylvia petitioned, the city of New York for an anti discrimination bill and she was arrested while trying to get signatures. When she appeared before the judge, he immediately let her go. He recognised that with all of the social turmoil that was going on in the United States. At that point, it would be a really unwise pr move for him to jail someone. He was getting signatures. Repetition Sylvia also testified before the City Council to try to get the bill past. However,
if the bell was being negotiated. Others in the gay community agreed to drop protections for cross dressers from the bill in the hope that it would be more likely to pass Sylvia and many of the other cross dressing entrance. Gender citizens of New York felt really deeply betrayed by this. They had been working campaign and getting arrested and sometimes facing abuse and violence and sexual assault in jail once they have been arrested. Fighting for these causes- and at this point it felt like they had done this for a cause but had then turn their back on them and it didn't help the bill. Minus discrimination protections for gender expression did not actually pass until fifteen years later, so that would have been nineteen eighty six So this concession really in the end was not much of a help. Along the way the gay activists alliance specifically drop rights for the cross dressing communities from its mission entirely. Consequently,
after being excluded from other gay rights organization, Sylvia and her long time, friend, Marshpee Johnson cofounded, the street transvestite action revolutionaries or star in the fall of nineteen. Seventy, essentially, the cross dressing and transgender community had begun to feel excluded by other gay and lesbian rights organizations, and so they form their own as a side note to a lot of people today. The word transvestite has connotations that are offensive, say people, a lot of people prefer the word processor, but on time it was a word that they were using to tackle selves frequently year or are you all for your drag, which is in there, and they are right yet a little fuzzy and there are still ongoing debate over you know, terminology and who should use what's to some degree that still being worked out? Yes, so we're not at all using those terms to be disrespectful, but because that those are the words that Sylvia and Marcia were using to describe themselves
so phobia. Marshes next step was to start what was known as STAR House, and this was an outreach efforts for the so called street queens. These were young homeless, gay youth, many of whom later went on to identify its transgender and many of whom are also people of color, and they originally operated STAR House out of the back of a truck, and then they started renting a building at two thirteen, a second street, and they fix that up and there they provided shelter, food and guidance for homeless, Transgender Youth and Sylvia Marcia really became mother figures. For these kids. They had a dance to try to raise the money to fund the operation, but for the most part, Sylvia and Marcia kept the place running by doing sex work. They tried to protect all of the young people who were in their care from being involved in the sex trade at all. However, many of the youth wound up helping star houses, efforts by stealing food any
actually. You know, this is not really a workable business model, so STAR House was evicted from the property for non payment of rent and before they left, took the refrigerator and they destroyed all of the improvements that they meet in the building. Out of a sort of turn about his fair play mindset and I feel like we should without that, the reason that they were having to turn to stealing and sex work to fund their operations is because their entire lives at this point not only illegal but also specifically targeted by the police and other people for harassment, so that was sort of what it had come to you by being excluded from so many other social organisations that we're working to help homeless people and others in New York. Yes, certainly was not like a. We don't want to pursue legitimate means of gaining Mummy, they just did not have our.
You need to do so right and that continues to be a problem in a lot of areas today. Throughout this time, Sylvia was also active in other radical organizations is I'll, including the black Panther Party and the young Lord switches, puerto rican Nationalist Activism group in nineteen. Seventy three Sylvia was supposed to speak at Christopher Street Liberation Day, which was a festival to commemorate the anniversary of this Riots. However, radical feminist tried to keep Sylvia from the stage because they viewed her wearing women's clothing. Ass sexist in particular activists, GINO Leary, a former none and lesbian feminist, spoke out against Sylvia taking part. Sylvia response was to physically grabbed the microphone into, anyway, with a lot of vigour and profanity. Behind her words, she spoke very
ITALY and angrily about how the gay community was benefiting from across dressers work, while simultaneously excluding them from their successes as repayment. Do you want to note the veto Leary went on to soften her views about processors and transgender people later in her life. I dont want to paint her as a terrible person. You went around oppressing other people, see scene later on express embarrassment and saying that she had really basically kicked people who were already down here and drank queens that were supposed to perform at this rally were also barred from performing after this incident, Sylvia move Tarrytown New York and lived with a boyfriend. Since she was no longer in the city, she became less prominent in its civil rights and gay rights efforts that she did make their way back every year. For the parades and festivals that commemorated the end of the stone while riot in the interim.
She led a relatively quiet life of human, Stuart Food Service, jobs for awhile, but eventually, unfortunately, she began abusing drugs again and wound up homeless and journalists. we're working to chronicle the gay rights movements earlier years and transgender people contribution to the Gay rights movement, founder on the streets of New York and the early ninety nineties. This actually marked her return to activism and to the public eye which will talk about after another brief. Break available. Now, for my heart, a new series presented by T Mobile for business, the restless ones, join me Jonathan Strickland, as I eggs The coming technological revolution and the business leaders who stand right on the cutting edge there are certain decision makers that are restless they No, there is a better way to get things done, and they ready curious excited for the next technological.
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His interviews are really personal and their candid, and for those who are a little bit crass, but they are always really enlightening. You can listen to these your brands and take away lessons that will help you navigate your own life and for your own path. The debut season includes women like Valerie. blame the former CIA agents, who is now running for Congress and whistleblowers pediatrician Doktor Mona Hannah, a teacher who exposed the flint water crisis and became the centre of aid swirling swirling amount of problems I am the legendary Buffy Saint, Marie Sixty songwriter and activist I have personal interest in this show began I adore rose and executive produce it and I think you're really going to enjoy the way that she gets into these conversations that feel like to France. Talking
and they are an absolute delight, so subscribed to the women on the Iheart Radio, app on Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast its tricky to talk about some of the issues that are in today's episode, because the terminology that we used to talk about it today, some of it was coined basically halfway through Sylvia. There is life, it's also tricky to talk about Sylvia River is identity specifically because she really really resisted the idea of labels for a lot of her life. She referred to herself as a transit, I am, as we said earlier, that the word that a lot of people don't prefer to be used any more. The term transgender came around about halfway through her life, but she was a totally comfortable calling herself that toward the end of her life, she said quote: I'm tired of being labelled. I don't even like away Transgender? I just want to be who I am. I am living the way Sylvia wants to live, but despite her life,
affinity for labels? Sylvia was undoubtedly an advocate for rights and protection for trains, gender people throughout the last ten years or so of her life, we talked earlier about Sylvia Founding Be Organization STAR with Marcia Peach, Anson Martians body was actually found in the Hudson River and ninety ninety two police, originally was a suicide, but they eventually opened a homicide investigation and when I say eventually, I mean two decades later. At the time of her death, Sylvia and other friends of marshes had said that she was not suicidal and that they had witnessed her being here. Asked by someone near where her body was found shortly before her that in ninety ninety four Sylvia was asked to leave the twenty fifth anniversary Stone Wall March that same year, she advocated for Martin do publishers to translate his algae Bt History Book Stonewall into Spanish, but according to her, she was told it would not sell well, in quote third world countries,
latin countries. In her last year's she and her partner, Julia Murray, lived and work at a place called transit house. This is a collective and shelter for transgender youth than they joined. This collective and nineteen seven and ninety. Ninety eight Sylvia was arrested during a memorial for Matthew Shepherd in New York. So if are not familiar with his story. Matthew Shepherd was a student at the. diversity of Wyoming Laramie, who was tortured, tied to offence, post and left to die as part of an antigay hate crime. He wound up dying of his injuries a few days after he was found tied to the fence post. According to Sylvia S own account, a police officer basically spread the word to arrest her first because she was known for being very. we vocal at these kinds of demonstrations in ninety ninety nine Sylvia spoke at the world. Pride rally in Rome in two thousand and other Trans woman named Amanda. Milan was stabbed in the neck and killed on forty seconds
Sylvia organised a series of rallies in protest surrounding her death in the trial of her killers. Sylvia continued to be really vocal, The schism between the gay community in the Trans community in the years before her death and about a year before she died at a talk, give him lets. You know gay men of New York. She said. Yes, we can adopt children all well and good. That's fine! I would love to have and I would love to marry my lover over there. She pointed to Julia Murray, but for political reasons I will not do it, because I don't feel that I have to fit in that closet of normal street society which the gay mainstream is going towards and the same speech. She described the transmitted EU participation in the Gay rights movement. This way quote, we were determined that evening that evening
Neither the stone Wall riots that we were going to be a liberated furry community, which we did acquire that actually change the way you have acquired your liberation, your freedom from that night myself, I've got expletive deleted, just like I had back then, but I still struggle. and I still continue to struggle. I will struggle till the day. I'd die, and my main struggle right now is that my community will seek the rights that are justly hours in the last year of her life, Sylvia campaign for New York, sexual orientation, nondiscrimination ACT, which is also referred to asunder, and that act prohibits discrimination on the basis of actual or perceived sexual orientation in employment, housing, public accommodations, education, credit and the exercise of civil
it includes protections for transgender people. Sylvia was not exaggerating when she said that she was going to work until she died for this her last meeting about Santa when she met with a city officials for the last time took place in a hospital bed when she was in in stage liver disease and in great pain. She died on February nineteenth two thousand two of liver disease at the age of fifty one side, I was signed into law in December, seventeenth of that same year, on November, fourteenth of two thousand and five, the city of New York named the corner of Christopher and Hudson Street, in the West Village, Sylvia Rivera way. Today,
Sylvia Rivera Food Pine tree, which is under the auspices of the Metropolitan Community Church of New York, which serves the working poor as well as people with HIV through a specialised pantry programme designed for people on anti retroviral therapies. These are higher in protein and easy to prepare. It also provides nutritional information and can a meal guidance for all of the populations that it serves. Phobias place is the Metropole in Community Church of New York Services, organisation for homeless, youth, Sylvia Rivera law projects, work focuses on transgender intersects engender, not conforming, people produce as for low income, people and people of color. They provide legal services, public education and advocacy for public policy reform. She had a big legacy. She did have a big lazy. She had a big legacy that I think hurt her name
is not necessarily well known in the context of the Gay rights movement, unless you are pretty familiar with it. The the no history, that we referenced making history. She is actually the only transgender person whose included and she's referred to with male pronounced the whole time and is classified as a drag queen, which she did collar self drag queen, but that's kind of limiting and how
actually viewed herself, while certainly since she was not a fan of the labels and she identified in her life as Sylvia and where a lot of dragged performers will still maintain their unum men. In many cases, the old school drag performers that were mostly men and then presented as female for performance. They still maintain that mail persona where she did not at all totally at one of the reasons that I wanted there. A couple reasons that I wanted to do. This episode in and one is that I think that a campaign for transgender right has been increasingly present in the news over the last year or so it's in terms of mainstream these cuts. Definitely not something that has been unknown, but when it comes to like that, that really mainstream news outlets and the other is a lot of the things that
Sylvia and the young people that she and Marcia were looking after yet many years ago a lot of those issues still really exists today, like there are still a lot of homeless, transgender youth, his few basically then thrown out of their homes by their parents and don't really have any rules. The turn. So I think her legacy is extremely important, not just for having been part of the Gay rights movement, but for specifically when it comes to working with homeless, young people who don't really have anywhere else to go. We it's an extremely high risk community in terms of violence, falling few sex work, you know just really being in at risk situations that weren't Sylvia, specifically, in addition to being originally identifying as a transvestite and then later
never done a fine and transgender. Maybe in addition to that, she was lieutenant and she was very poor. She was not particularly educated. She was in a whole lot of address groups all the same time and she had she said in a and a speed right before her her death, not right before about a year before that she wanted to live to be a hundred. She only made it to fifty one, but given all of those factors, the fact that she made it to fifty one in the time that she was living
Pretty incredible, sad as possible ways to end that so on a more of beet tone, we're gonna be a continuation of what we have already started, which is reading some of the responses we got when we asked for people who had history degrees to tell us kind of what they did with those in terms of their career, which grew out of a question. Some one asked of us of how we got work to where we are and how people who study history in college, my gets jobs than we didn't know cause. That's not what we studied in college. So we went to our fabulous listener base because they are Smarty Panther
a lot of them have history degrees. So we will read a few more summer short one is our listener, Christina. She has a degree in history from the University of Toronto, Saint Michael's and she went on to future school in the Toronto area, and should he just canadian history too great ten students, as well as other social studies courses. So we always look at each year. So thank you for teaching the historians of tomorrow. Our listener Kristen got her bachelors in history and she is currently finishing up her masters. She currently works to part time jobs both in history she's, a museum educator at a hands on children's museum, as well as registrar at a Lighthouse museum which some fascinating to me and then, once her masters degrees, complete heard plan is to work in preservation. So a lot of these kind of do lead to an archivist path are listener. Megan is a curator and she says my recommendation is to find out what your interests,
teaching, research, museum studies, politics etc and go from there is working in a museum. Is your career goal? I'd recommend taking any internships that may be offered and volunteer as much as possible are listener. Gina said I have a double major liberal arts degree in history and classical studies. I e ancient Mediterranean. It has served me well through very jobs by endowing me with an appreciation of perspective, context, communication and storytelling, which is what drew me to ancient Greece and Rome in the first place, and I believe that understanding the roles played by perspective in context in historical storytelling gives us a foundation for humanistic empathy. They can impact how we read and interpret news stories today could not agree more these days I am celebrating almost a decade in sales and customer service and explaining my communication skills into the animal world with dark, hair and training. Ah, she makes such a great point. I think, about kind of the historical perspective, giving you a better Linz through
discuss something I studied that vaguely relates. I worked with several other folks with degrees and equally exciting fields, creative writing, graphic design, etc. I genuinely love my job is one of many folks who graduated just as the corporate recession began, the actual history related career opportunities for history degrees or not as flexible as one might hope. That happens a lot too liberal large degree holders in general and
fact design, etc. I genuinely love my job is one of many folks who graduated just as this quote. Great recession began the actual history related career opportunities for history degrees or not as plentiful, as one might hope. That happens a lot too liberal large degree holders in general and especially in the last five to seven years. It's been a long time since we ve had like a big staff expansion at Helstone work, but we did several years ago and one of the best things about that was the number one I was always like an hour. I want a fine people, you don't have to have a journalism degree, you don't have to have an english degree, but a liberal arts degree is preferred because there's so much research in writing involved in basically every liberal arts degree,
and then never to you is getting to basically offer people jobs. You had a good feeling is a really good feeling that make a phone call during the things that the career centre at college, without always telling me, like people, love liberal arts degrees, because of all these reasons that these history majors have just been pointing out of it, and when I got into the world of actually trying to find a job, I was like you guys that lives work. Oh yeah. I've got to make that through imprison people at a limited scale yeah, which is often many, but you get the chance work retrace our highly recommended tell if you like. I really genuinely do that has not me being nice, because she's here, she's, not my favorite boss, I think of all time, allow that you have some stiff competition that year there are very close second. So if you do some wrong, you're gonna fall into poverty.
but right now that you out, if you would like to write to us, we're history podcast but have to burn stuck on a facebook is Facebook accomplishments than history, and our twitter is MR history are tumblr is MR history that temple dot com and we are also on Pinterest adventurous that com miss than history. We have a red shirt store where you can buy all kinds of cool stuff. He missed in history class flag. That is, that MR history, outspread short dot com. If you would like to learn a little bit more about something that we ve talked about today, you can count on our website and you can put the word transgender into the surgeon.
And one of the things that you will find is an article called him things. Doctors have changed their minds about this century, which talks about the changes in the ways that the medical community have transgender people and gender expression. You can come to our website, which is missing history, dot com and you can find are shared out than links of absurd that a giant archive of everything we ve ever done. So you can do about how supports not or miss them history, not for more on this and thousands of other topics. How stuff works. I'm pretty sure I'm America's number one gossip column is. I Tell you about my new celebrity podcast naughty but nice Rob shooter
every Monday, three thursday I'll be joined by some of my fellow gossip reporters and maybe even a celebrity or two to serve up the freshest tee Listen, I'm subscribe on the eye, radio up apple podcast or where ever you get your favorite halo nurse. I wanted to tell you about a new podcast from my heart radio called the women hosted by rose red fascinating and deep. Dive interview show, where rose, talks, to change makers and disruptors, and she finds out what really drives them. So she will ask each of them. What was your father stand and how do you navigate success and failure, and really what's the cost of fighting for others? His interviews are really personal and their candid, and for those who are a little bit crass, but they are always really enlightening. You can listen to me by your brands, and take away lessons that will help you navigate your own life and for your own path. The debut season includes women like Valerie.
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