In nineteen sixty seven Joseph Stalin's only daughter, flees, russia for her new home america, everybody. I have the year that story alone, It is worthy of a pod cast, but sped Laana sped laana is about what comes next and it's the craziest story. I've ever heard it has. Kgb agents are frankly right, commune weird that stuff three all goes to settle on us and wonder at a gay playwright. That's me, listen to that want to spell out on the irish radio out apple pie, cas or wherever You got your pod. My daddy, when after half trains I was terrified. I'd never see her again, so I followed her into the train yard? This is what it sounds like inside the box and into the city of the rails.

I found a surprising world so brutal and beautiful that it changed me. The the reality that to everyone, there is another world out there and if you want to play with the devil you're going to find them there in the railyard and in l, Martin come with me to find out what waits for us in the city of raleigh, listen to city of the rails and the iheart radio, app apple pie cas or wherever you get your podcast or city of the rails. Dot com, In nineteen sixty eight five black girls were picked up by police after running away from a reform school and mount mags alabama, I'm writer and reporter josie duffy race and in a new podcast I invest the gate, the abuse and thousands of black children suffered at the ala, burma, industrial school for a negro children and how those I propose changed everything listen to unreformed on the I hurt radio at apple pie cast. Or wherever you get your pipe.

happy saturday, the mongolia hey brothers, ballooning efforts came up in our recent episode on raincoat. So we are bringing that out today, the day saturday classic so the term manned flight has become a little bit problematic, intrusive, it being gendered language in recent years. So if we were recording this show today, we would have use different, raising just Why you, I don't think that's a thing that we have normally pointed out, but I feel egg manned flight. It's a lot more immediate criticism than the many other gendered terms that are still in use. So just be aware, this originally came out september, seventh, twenty sixteen so enjoy. Welcome to stuff. You missed in history class, a production of I hurt radio.

hello and welcome to the I'm holly for Tracy v, Wilson. Tracy, I have fantastic news new. What is it this episode is not gravy is settling houses are but but but but but All that stuff I mean I let you have a very sort of morbid and morose tasted. Many things, even though, I'm pretty giggly a day to day life, but this sun has none of that. It's kind of a cool moment in the development of human technologies hooray, yeah you're you're you're episodes were were disproportionately jerks there for a while. Yet these people not jerks to the best of my knowledge to is stick! So back in october of twenty thirteen, we had an episode about female balloonist,

sophie, bland charred and the balloon mania that was gripping europe at the time, but today we're gonna talk about the roots is that balloon, romania, it's pretty close, because this was a very explosive moment in terms of interest and excitement about air flight and we're going to talk about the inventive minds of two brothers that really shaped ballooning and we actually did talk about them briefly in the Blanchard episode, but their works sorta

his arms, its own episode and the inspiration for this episode actually came from working on a house of works. Article awhile back about drones that I was editing and our art department put together. This really fantastic, interactive graphic about the ways humans have taken to the skies and unmanned vehicles over the years, and one of the earliest points on my clickable timeline feature Joseph Michel and shock it in mongolia, and so I thought it might be fun to talk about them. Joseph Michel was the odor of the brothers born on august, twenty six, seventeen, forty and Anna France. He would go on to go by joseph jock, etienne or anti and jock, depending on which document you're looking at was generally just called etienne, and he was born about four and a half years later on January six, seventeen forty five. So

for the time line. If you are a fan of our prior sophie Blanchard episode, has about the three decades before she was born yet, and the discrepancy in terms of talking about etienne is that his name is listed. Different ways on different documents of his birth certificate and death certificate are opposite, one says jacobean ones as etienne jack. Just a heads up there, like wind. Why are they flippity and in addition to these two brothers, their father, Pierre Mongolia, a and their mother, and do they had fourteen other kids, that's a lot of children, and fortunately Pierre was a very successful business man. So he was able to support that massive family and the way he did so was through a family business, because the mongolia is owned. A number of paper factories in france, all of which were doing pretty darn well Joseph attended private school and unjust,

what college but school, just really didn't quite agree with him. His mind was: really busy- and he had trouble focusing on one thing- a sort of like some other people in the room right now he'd, eventually left to start his own chemical business in paris at the end, went to school to be an architect, although he was also interested in science, and it wasn't long before both he and his brother, I continued to run the family business as adults. Etienne was bitter better at the business side of things he had become the head of the families paper, factories at age, thirty after pierre retired, and there rather raymond, who had been in charge of the business passed away Joseph on the other hand, was always interested in an of aiding and putting his chemistry knowledge to work to improve the processes in the mills that they owned ye

Every time you see any mention of josephs business acumen. Like a one point, he was running his own chemical business. He was not good at that part of it. He tended to lose a lot of money because, as we said well will focus issues, but the income from the paper factories would give Joseph and its yet the financial freedom to explore and experiment in the science of ballooning, and it's not entirely clear why or how the two began. Thinking about air flight. There are so many apocryphal stories, about how this happened. One was that watching bits of burning paper lift into the air from a fire got them started. Another was that it was simply watching smoke arise from a fire. They gave them the inspiration to think about how air and smoke and lift worked, and another suggests that Joseph was why,

king, his wife's shemeah dry over a fire and he noticed how the fabric billowed out as warm air was trapped underneath it. But we do not know if any of those are true or not. Now sound like ballooning versions of being hit with an apple, the very much depending on which biography you are look, yup and most modern ones, kind of acknowledge. We don't know, but some of the older accounts and even accounts that the the gentleman gave in their lives. They shift a lot and you can tell it's kind of like we don't know so we're just going to plop something here that that makes some sort of sense. So that's why we have a billion different stories about it, but the important is they did start thinking about it and seventeen? Eighty two, the brothers, observed that when heated air was contained in a lightweight vessel made of paper or fabric that vessel would rise, they actually thought they had discovered a new type of gas that was lighter than air, and they named that mug gulfy gas.

their theory was that mongolia gas was contained in the smoke from the fire and that it possessed a property that they called levity, which brightens my day a little in its very charming. Of course. Over time it, when you know proved that it was since the heat that was in a making that regular air rise, not activating some sort of hidden gas that was present in the air, and we should also point out that, while the mon golf yeas are often credited with inventing ballooning and while we are talking about them specifically at length today, they were certainly not the only people experimenting with the idea of flight and they were not even the first to be filling lightweight bags with air to make them float a portuguese priest, bartolome outlaw and so do goose.

Now, which I probably butchering, was floating small balloons in the early seventeen hundreds and he was working on designs for a much more sophisticated airship based on those balloon experiments. When he died in team twenty form. It appears, however, that the Mungo fees did not know about those ballooning experiments going on in Portugal earlier in this century. Filling balloons with hot air to lift them up was also employed in China way before europeans ever got. This idea rise The lanterns of this nature were common in china as early as the third century. So it was a long time before her before here and there even thinking hey. Maybe if I felt a bag with this, it would rise. Whenever I see like those sort of- and I I know because we both work in editing and we do copy that- sometimes you just have to like cut down extraneous stuff to me.

the point, but whenever he see like a blurb or something that says the mongolia is first to ever, you know achieve balloon flight, unlike That means a whole lot of qualifying merely not yet I to and during the time that Joseph and Etienne were at work on their ballooning efforts. There were also so many other of their contemporaries in europe working on similar ideas ever mentioning all of this just to make clear that, while these two gentlemen do get a lot of credit for inventing manned flight, it might be more accurate to say that they were two of many who were working towards that goal. At the same time, and a bit of lucky timing happened to be on their side in April of seventy maybe three, the monk Orpheus began testing their theories and earnest grading. Various models of balloons from fabric and paper in the trying out their airworthiness may also experimented with differ

flammable media to determine what would burn the best, the most controllable rate to heat the heirs turbid. It didn't just become an alarming conflagration of burning balloon. Yet there were some instances that happened in their testing, but on june forth of seventeen eighty three, the brother, do oh, went to the end in a marketplace to present their work in heated air by way of demonstration, so they set up this silk balloon that was lined with paper. It was huge had a diameter of thirty three feet, that's about ten metres and they arranged straw and cars, wall beneath the balloon. They had determined that burned the best under the bags. Only opening so then they burnt that straw in the wool and it heated the air within their vessel. I bet this was stinky. Probably it seems like especially the burning will would be gross

So once the interior air was heeded, the bag rose up off the ground. Estimates place it at an altitude of about three thousand feet, which is a little more than nine hundred meters at the highest that it reached after staying aloft and drifting. For about ten minutes, the balloon drifted back down to earth finally landing about a mile and a half or two point four kilometres from the market place where they started out this demonstration- and this was pretty exciting to everyone in the success of their enemies display led them to paris. Look at me. They see also wanted to hear all about the balloon experiments so at the end, went to give a talk there about their work. The pair were honoured, the academy for that work and if you're wondering why only etienne spoke with the economy in paris, it was because the pair were wanted in many places at once, once they had done this demonstration. So Joseph was speaking at the leal academy. At the same time,

we're gonna talk briefly about how very not accidental the success of the monk obviate brothers was, but first we will pause for a brief moment from sponsored sounds great. Its nineteen sixty seven, the cold war and joseph ones. Daughters deadline of the princess of the kremlin has just lad mother, russia, her new home, a place where the. are paved with gold and people. Big apple, eyes out a baseball's and freedom, a place called america, the That story alone would be worthy of a podcast. But this one is that honest that laana, is about what comes next and it's crazy. A store free I've ever heard. It has kgb agents, mystics

frank, lloyd, right, commune destiny, immortality and unbreakable cycles, weird sex, stuff, weird money, stuff. We're dances, three all to settle on us and one neurotic gate playwright who won't shut up about it. All guess which one I am Listen to that one is spent laana on the iranians, apple pot or wherever you get your pod, This is like inside the box, I'm sure, I still am whiten in my podcast city of the rails, I plunged into the dark world of america's railways, searching for my dad, who really who ran off to hop train like train, we're gonna end up job, following my daughter, I found a secret city of unforgettable characters living outside society off the grid and on the edge. I was in love with a lifestyle and the freedom this community. No one hundred stance who we truly are the rails,

my question everything I knew about mother had history and the thing we call the american dream. It's the last vestige of american freedom, everything about it is really very they're, going guy- or you can have this incredible river and really understand who you are come with me to find out What ways for us in the city of the rails. listen the city, the rails and the I heard radio app apple pie cas wherever you get your pa gas or city of the rail start com, in nineteen, eighty cocaine was captivating and corrupting miami loyally had become the world capital of the united states. I would like and millions of dollars categorized as law while washed unleashing a wave of violence. My god tat, walk into the devil, stand the car failed that gives killed over by the us, how they start pulling out pictures of clue, Williams body taken up

everglades a world orbiting around a mysterious man with a controversial claim the drug pilot by the name of l'amour chester. He never ran anything but grass. Until I turned over that load of go to mom, the island chester would claim he did it all for this cia putting money into a sprawling federal investigation. clay. Wasn't the only person who was murdered? I'm lauren bright, jacko join me for murder in miami. listen to murder in miami on the iheart, radioactive apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast So all of this attention and praise was not, as we mentioned a moment ago, a situation where two gents we're just goofing about an accident only found themselves. The toast of the country and keep in mind too, that these weren't, like super young guys they were in their thirties at this point, said they were strategic thinkers. They were very smart man.

And they had selected this date for their anna exhibition to coincide with the meeting of local leaders, so that people with some influence could witness what they had been working on. Etsy, n and Joseph were hoping to get the attention of the crown and launch their careers as scientific elites financially supported by the king and that plan to get the head of the country interested in their balloons actually worked from the presentation in paris. The brothers headed temper side to repeat this belief

display for king, maybe the sixteenth, but this time they aimed for a bigger, more ambitious experiment. They wanted to send a more structured balloon up, and this time have passengers and to execute the project among gulfy is needed help. So they call on the skills of wallpaper maker, jean baptiste, Bolivia, young and with levy or health. They constructed a balloon that was slightly smaller than the previous one and had a diameter of thirty feet about nine meters. But this balloon, which was also mean from taffeta, was varnished with alum to fireproof it and it had a decorative painted finish. The selection of passengers was also a significant step in the process. There are some serious concerns about what flight and loon might due to a body I'm assuming they were also worried about what would happen if it crashed. So, while king louis, the sixteenth, propose that prisoners speaks for the test, the monk off he has decided to go with a different plan.

and this is kind of one of those things that you'll often see cited as a wacky thing, but the reasons for it or pretty cool. So his first writers amount in them on gulfy a balloon baskets we're not humans. They were a duck. Mr and the sheep, and the logic was that, since the duck was a naturally flying animal, it was considered something of a control, laments and the rooster was selected because it was a bird, but it was one which flew only short short distances very close to the ground, so it was like the next level of risk up from the dock, in terms of what its body might be able to handle and then the sheep was believed to be similar enough to a human disease illogically that its success or failure as a passenger would give a pretty clear indication of whether learning was safer. Humankind might be the silliest criteria for an experiment we have ever talked about

I love it, though there's a logic to it, it's kind of silly, but I always wonder what kept the duck from flying out, but that's never cover it just mean. Similarly, the one that we had about the volcano. They did the people thought by spring water at it. This whole idea of the balloon animal tests just sounds like child logic to me think because it's like a brainstorming ever of it. ina garten class. However, this occasion was anticipated with great excitement about one hundred and thirty thousand people, including the king and marie antoinette, were on hand to witness this historic moment and it's very odd cargo, yeah and those three barnyard era. Noughts were successfully launched on September nineteenth of seventeen eighty three and they flew for eight minutes. So animal lovers in the crowd. You may have already guessed because I am giggly about it, we'll be happy to know that the feathered and willie trio made a

please safe landing, although they had drifted approximately two miles. That's about three point, two kilometers. While they were making history in the air, I hope they weren't scared. I'm sure they were probably a little confused and possibly scared. Like I said, I dont know why the dutch Wouldn't it just be like about yeah I've, tired. We like I'm, not having your shenanigans a world of no. to this bullet hypocrites, as the animal experiments had gone so well. The mongolia brothers were eager to step things up and trial balloon carrying actual humans and, after a couple of months of prep on november, twenty first seventeen. Eighty three.

They made a history by launching the first man, I'm tethered balloon flight and the two men who got to experience that exhilarating flight were not the mungo few brothers, the brothers state on the ground and kind of set up the whole thing, though the two people were high profile, balloon enthusiasts. So one of the men with jean influenza p lockwood closure, who was a chemist and head of the county, countess, deplore, valses, cabinet of physics, chemistry and natural history, who was known for his very flamboyant approaches to community in science concepts. He would be a really fun topic for the future f Y I he might be ah and palapa. The lozier had actually been in the balloon before so about a month. Prior on october, fifteenth the mongol fees had launched a tethered test flight with him as the human occupant and that lasted

four minutes. The other gentlemen was france, while aura marquis blocked garland, who was a soldier at a noble his inclusion. The event is said to have been the result of effort on the part of the king to ensure that some one The nobility was part of this historic moment when human flight was achieved Balloon itself was a rather spectacular looking thing. If you do in internet search for it you'll see many many pictures and there are even modern balloons that have been designed to replicate it because it's it's so iconic cannot ballooning. So it was blue with intricate gold designs on the exterior, including symbols that were associated with king louis, the sixteenth remember they were very into currying favor with the king and the passenger area. This is kind of the part of it that I really love. The passenger area was not a basket like you'd, see on a balloon today that sat underneath it, but rather a re. In around the opening at the bottom of the balloon, where he could be applied to the ear within. So you have, the picture is

like a flange bottom and then the flange forms this little ring that the the human occupants could be in There was also a red bunting around the passenger area. It was very festive faithfully for less than half an hour about twenty five minutes took them about five and a half miles or eight point six kilometers in the process, as they re who's up into the air. They doff their caps to the spectators below and their balloon had started at its lift,

at chateau de la mujeres on the far western side of paris and it landed at la butte or Caia. The crowd, which included benjamin franklin, was completely wowed. Yeah Ben franklin wrote about them a bit in his his accounts of his time in france, so they are on record in his writings and ever looking to the next level of achievement. The next plan for the french brothers was to carry larger groups of people by air into that in just two months after that, first untethered flight and after a failed start that they had tried to make which was derailed by rain and a small fire. They did launch a balloon carrying Joseph and several passengers into the air in the all france on January nineteen, seventeen. Eighty four, this balloon was massive. It was a hundred and thirty feet about forty metres. Amateur and their landing on this one was not ideal, because the air in the balloon cooled really rapidly and cause

much speedier descent than they were planning, but everyone did make it back safely, although they had only been in the air for about fifteen minutes however, even with their increasing triumphs, the mongolia yeas and other ballooning enthusiasts, our attempting their own projects. That flight started running into the same problem limbs over and over and for one thing they hadn't figured out how to steer the balloons they pretty much go but then be at the mercy of the air for another, the altitude that a balloon could reach and the distance that it could travel were limited by the air in the balloon, which, of course, was cooling off over time and cancer. it's about fire initially led people away from the idea of keeping some sort of onboard flame going to stay in the air, and so alternate gases were considered. This is part of why, just ten days after the mongolia sent pill, AL quds of hosier and long aloft for the first

I am another inventor Jacques unexampled says I shall launched the first man. Hydrogen filled balloon the terrible idea where at its pluses and minus thirty folks who run yes yeah for the folks. You remember our hindenburg episode yet shall I ve been working with hydrogen throughout the time that, among obviates, had been developing their balloons. He actually, are doing this because he thought that was what they were doing and although the brothers barely beat him to manned flight. His december first, seventeen eighty three launch flew twenty seven miles, which is forty three point: five collapse

as and it lasted for two hours. This was quickly recognized as a superior way to get people into the air yeah. So at that point, everyone was like hydrogen is where it's at on june fifteenth, however, of seventeen. Eighty five tragedy struck the ballooning world when jean francois palapa the hosie a guide in a ballooning accident. He was crossing the english channel in a balloon which was filled with a combination of hot air and hydrogen when it exploded, and so less than two years after he made history in untethered flight, the hobby for which he held so much enthusiasm, claimed his life and also made him it's first fatality. Next up, we will talk a little about how all this balloon business was affecting the fashion culture of france.

But before we get into hats and hairdos pause and talk about one of our fabulous sponsor its nineteen sixty seven, the cold war and Joseph I once daughters deadline of the princess of the kremlin has just lead mother russia, her new home, a place where there odes are paved with gold and people, big apple, eyes out. A baseball's and freedom a place called, America, the that story alone would be worthy of a podcast, but this one is that one is that laana is about what comes next and it's the craziest. Worry I've ever heard. It has kgb agents. Mistakes Frank lloyd, right, commune destiny, immortality and unbreakable cycles. Weird sex duff, weird money, stuff,

we're dances. Three august to spell honours and one neurotic gay playwright who won't shut up about it, all guess which one I am listen to start lana spent lana on the iheart radio, app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts This is inside the box. I'm enlisted are martin. In my podcast city of the rails, I plunged into the dark world of america's railroads searching for my daddy ruby, who ran off to hop train, stop on the train, where I'm going to end up job. Following my daughter, I found a secret city of unforgettable characters living outside society off the grid and on the edge. I was in love with a lifestyle and freedom, this community, no one stance who we truly are the rails.

My question question everything I knew about motherhood, history and the thing we call the american dream, the last vestige of american freedom. Everything about it is extremely serious. Either guy or you can have this incredible river and really understand who you are come with me to find it What ways for us in the city of the rails listen to city the rails on the ice media hype apple pie cast a reverie, you get your pike, ass or city of the rail start. Com in nineteen, eighty cocaine was captivating and corrupting miami loyally had become the world capital of the united states. I would like and millions of dollars pollack categorized as wall while washed unleashing a wave of violence. My god tat, walk into the devil, stand the car felt that you ve killed. Everybody was how they start pulling out pictures of plea williams body taken up.

Everglades world orbiting around a mysterious man with a controversial claim the drug pilot by the name of l'amour chester. He ever ran anything but grass. Until I turned over that low to go mom the island chester would claim he did it all for the cia pulling money into a sprawling federal investigation, clay wasn't the only person who was murdered, I'm lauren bread check out, join me for murder in miami. listen to murder in miami, only I hurt ready, allows apple, podcast or wherever you get your part,

dial. All of this amazing stuff was going on. It was incredibly exciting to europe, but especially to france. Since a lot of the the big steps were happening layer and soon balloon themed items were popping up everywhere. There were balloon motif, some, almost everything that you could imagine, including clothing. I would totally go for a t shirt with that: first animal crew as ballooned its it. I would to everything from embroidered motive If two hats designed to look like balloons, became really trendy and fashionable the hair styles that women started wearing, especially if they were fans ballooning were sometimes styled into these bulbous shapes to look like balloons- people, or in short, going sort of bananas with balloon fashion to the point that a satirical cartoon entitled law

oh hello, oh la fully, do sure. That's the man of balloons or the folly of the day was published, and this illustration features a gentleman wearing basically balloon Is it his shirt and pantaloons are drawn to mimic the shape of balloons and his coat is adorned with both balloon cuffs and balloon buttons and his epaulettes and schubert holes and herod ornaments are all balloons and in lieu of a cod, a mini balloon, sits a decorative element on his hat while all of this fascination with balloon fashion, started in france. It quickly started to spread to london and a new york over the course of seventeen. Eighty three and seventeen eighty four, but of course fashion is pretty fickle more landis, the tran, often the shorter, its lifespan, so by the time by

luna to everything had become popular with the middle class. The trendsetters who had initially adopted it were done with balloons balloons over next we went onto ships yeah, it's sort of fabulous, there's a if you there was actually a hat called him on goofy, a hat which was inspired by ballooning, has kind of a big poofy crown on it you're into it, but going back to them on gfi, specifically the issues that they were encountering in their balloon development efforts, particularly the flight control, eventually led the brothers away from ballooning. They kind of felt like they had done as much, it could do, but their careers and science and invention did not end there. Alongside balloon. Development among Gulfy also been working on, perish I'd ideas, which sounds like a good companions. Ballooning Jos

eventually designed one that consisted of a dozen fabric panels, stick together and attached to a basket which was cushioned with inflatable pig bladders. They tested this parachute by dropping a sheep from from a tower in it would maybe not the most humane my like: they were. I may already I'm a little both tried, both charmed and I'm upset by sending animals up in the building but more upset by throwing a sheep off it out a tower. I actually was too when I was researching this. I did not see anything definitive about how the sheep feared.

All of that, but in their minds, since it is already established that sheep or similar enough to humans to make abroad sort of comparison terms of safety. I guess that was the most plausible here. I think when we're done recording and we just make a little comparison chart of sheep and human figure out. How exactly are we that similar, but after they stepped away from ballooning, Etienne, went back to the family business? As you recall, he was the one that really had a head for. Businesses was quite good, at it- and he made strides in the paper industry when he invented a vellum production process. He was also recognised as a leader in the field of paper production amy was given the title manufacture of coin, which basically man he was at the top of his field and perhaps his greatest achievement, though, in this period of his wife, was keeping their business. successfully throughout the turmoil of the revolution. In the economic tumult, the gripped france in the wake of the power shifts,

He also got involved in community and government and eventually became the paymaster of the french war department. He was serving in that position at the legal office when he became ill and decided to travel homes, anime and in route. He got so ill that he decided to stop and he actually died on august, seventeen ninety nine yeah. He was near sovereignty, air at the time and as for Joseph, he went on to invent a liquid distilling apparatus that could function at reduced pressure in temperature compared to others, and he also invented in application of that device that could be used to dry fruits and he also invented a hydraulic ram that was used for raising water. So keep really was doing a lot of interesting things and for those accomplishments he was made a member of France's legion of honor

and he was appointed to the institute of france and he basically worked constantly as both an inventor and a lecturer until eighteen, o nine, when he retired, due to failing health in june of eighteen ten, he travelled to belarus luke le ban in the hopes that the curative waters there would improve his condition, but in fact he died there on june, twenty sixth and their paper company. That was, in the mongolia family is actually still in business, although after changing names to council and Emma gulf yea, and now it is just cancel yeah kind of love that it still going I rather think that didn't verify it. So don't take this as fact that it is in the midst of possibly being purchased. so by the end of this year, it might be owned by a different company, and I don't know if it will change names, but right now it is kensall paper and it still exists and has been around since the early seventeen hundred, so I was going to say unilever because it seems like every consumer price.

Do we talk about ultimately ends up? One dyno, it's an italian company that is is allegedly buying them. They, they primarily focus on making art papers. It's not like a business paper manufacturer nice. So it's a little bit different kind of business, not quite not quite what you might think of when you think a business that's being by another. Big business is a little bit o brien river and last, if you like few like art supplies, then there s who doesn't like art supply. I do you, even though I am bad at art. Nobody is automatically very few. People are automatically really good at aren't I Well, a lot of artists. Ah, we actually did an interview for house of works. This'll, be my art proselytizing moment that I think everybody should try it. We did an interview with Brian style freeze, who is a well known, comic book artist and has been working on the black panther comic and one of the things that came up in our interview when I asked, if he just he ever has that moment of the

Madame super good. At this end he said you know what I don't have natural tell it. He has a brother that is very, very talented. Me said, mine is just years and years of practice and skill in learning that masquerades as talent to people that do not know that I have put in all that time, but he's kind of like the tale of. If you love something and he really work at it, you can just becomes that it here is what happens to me at arts, oppressed by the beautiful paper and pans. I bring them home and then they go in a drawer.

If are, are an artful consumer that kind of thanks that much for joining us on a saturday, since this episode is out of the archive, if you heard an email address or a facebook, you rl, or something similar over the course of the show that could be obsolete. Now, our current email address is history. Podcast at I heart, radio, dot, com, r old, how stuff works, email address no longer works, and you can find us all over social media at missed in history. And subscribe to our shadow on apple podcast, google podcast, the iheart radio app and wherever else he listened, the fog casts stuffy miss than history class The production of I heart, radio for more podcasts from I heart rate, visit by her radio haven't montana or wherever you listen to your favorite, show.

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