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The Lovers of Catherine the Great

2010-08-23 | 🔗

It gets lonely at the top, and even larger-than-life monarchs like Catherine the Great needed a bit of romance now and then. Tune in and learn more about Catherine's lovers -- and if she ever found the true love she was looking for -- in this podcast.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
welcome one welcome all welcome you do yours and marchers to the beat of any drum at starbucks we know that wellness has a lot more to do with finding your unique journey then following latest trends that's why we have something for every taste every craving every mood and every you like our new cocoanut milk latte an almond milk honey white because no to journeys are the same and what makes it right is that it's yours i am bobby brown welcome type hard task beyond the beauty show from i hurt radio i'm here to be sitting down with different people each week that i think we can all learn from i hurt radio is number one for pod cast but don't take our word for pleasant beyond the beauty and the heart radio up apple todd cast or ever you get your pockets
we all have something to learn about the real me welcome to stuff you you in history class from house to tat com hello and welcome to the task and unfair shouting and today's topic lovers grade we already talked about her husband and previous epithet and if you remember he's the one she deposed and then sort of had kill ring the bell and he was pretty awful and yet her son had him dug up and buried next to her spending eternity next to someone you despise has to be its own kind of hell so who which she rather be next to weaken
taking a look at a whole list of fellows in fact and the first is sergey salty carbon we mentioned him in a previous episode in this three part catherine the great theories it was possible by him that she had her son although possibly also by her husband and the circumstances of the time she was in a desperately unhappy marriage hurt sex life with her husband was practically non existent and she needed to produce an air service relationship was encouraged and salty cough was charming and bad bad boy he was handsome and he was very slick so in other words he seemed like a good idea and these honeyed words were hard to resist for our young sir
catherine she's vulnerable and the people at court wanted her to get pregnant so they're kind of nudging her into this relationship with salty carve but she made the mistake of falling in love with him and he soon grew tired of her one night stood her up for a date and that was the end of that a heartless
and to learn fortunately for catherine there is another fellow to follow in his footsteps that's stand in its way on a toy ski and plays a very good dancer which is lucky for him because that's what catches katharine's i at the time of their affair she was twenty six and he described her as having a mouth which seem to invite kisses and a merry disposition if you want a little idea of who catherine was in her youth and he was a virgin so he's the exact opposite of the darnley salty carve because in him she could find both sex and emotional fulfilment so moving up as far as the quality of her man but it was a very secret affair and that's until husband finally found out at first he was angry he didn't want his wife to be having a fair but then he decides that gonna twisty is funny that pretty nice guy and maybe hey they should go on we'll dates are something which doesn't sound fund
anyone else involved that for that sort of crazy emperor many think she was just mad at first about the secrecy and once he found tat it was an affairs ago well i'm having an affair this is fine myself wireless hang out and party all night no one wanted to do that but i mean he's he now he is who is so you have to he probably invited some puppets till and a lot of these details we should mention come from virginia surroundings biography of catherine the great which is pretty fantastic
by play a toy ski she had her daughter anna petrovna who is the one who died but their love was doomed by circumstance during his absence on diplomatic absence her coup took place and when she took the throne she told him not to return because now is not the time for eleven her life this was time to rule to get down to business she wrote to him a could i very much like good by the world is full of strange situations which is a pretty good break of line as far as breaking times go she looked out for him though she doesn't just talk often when against is the third of poland dies catherine make sure that her former lover is elected as the new king although this does not end up being the best deal for him because she perch
since poland and he abdicates in seventeen ninety five but still it's the thought that counts catherine and a little detail on him he instituted some miles and poland like the parisian had only has recalled thursday dinners and where a full of polish luminaries and intelligent discussions very finer thing definitely so we'll catherine is settling into the role of being the empress she doesn't have a lever for a little bit but that doesn't last for that long she said to herself that she needs a young man in her life and it keeps healthy though in seventeen sixty one week
gregory orlov and we also mentioned him in a previous podcast he was the father of her son alexei and he and his brothers were involved in that mysterious death of her husband to so we know he is definitely one of katharine's right hand man and he helped save russia from plague so you can imagine he was a very busy man they were together for eleven years their practically married and then rather suddenly it was over for one thing he was very powerful and her court and i were people who would do anything to take him down and she was also told that he cheated on her so she replaced him in her life for a time in seventeen seventy two with a completely underwhelming alexander vassili chekhov total rebound he was not worth it of course after eleven years
or a love a break up is more like a divorce and catherine still loves him in an observer writes that she finds it hard to do without him she experiences in emptiness and not having someone to whom she can open her heart on everything and she also described him as this if you ever see you will see without doubt the most handsome man you have ever seen in your life so there you go catherine
when's are always hard to say goodbye to she tried to part with him on very generous terms as far as lands and money and family status go but it was quite the dramatic break up there was a lot of back and forth and maybe he's coming back or he's not a little bit of a power imbalance that she kept warm feelings for him for the rest of her life and a great deal of respect he remained involved in the government and he also helped found the free economic society and she was inconsolable upon his death in seventeen eighty three she didn't eat for days even though the years leading up to it she was prepared for it he become deranged and feeble minded he'd been ill for a while that already broke her heart but even then aside ned about orlov before we move on completely from him he's the source of the famous orlov diamond which he bought two please kathryn
and it has muddled origin like all of the best jewel stories you did it come from an it in a brown and temple perhaps or maybe the possession of the assassinated king of persia nobody knows exactly but it's one of the roma crown jewels so it has it very illustrious history so let's go back to a social costs or rather let's go past him because after that she needed someone special and someone who would open up her heart like orloff dead and that brings us to gregory pajama can at the most famous of catherine's loves and that's because although his time as her lover was fairly short he became the most powerful man and the government they were basically co rulers and after the passion was gone the respect and the friendship remained so he was born in seventeen thirty nine and he studied theology at the university of moscow before spending some time in the guard so
plainly what we know about his early life it's this monkish existence followed by military style serve ass an he becomes caverns lover and in seventy four and even though their relationship only goes on for two years it's this very deeply felt wanted it's an up and down relationship in the early days katherine wrote him a letter that said in order for me to make sense when were with me i have to close my eyes or else i might really say what i have always found laughable that my gaze is captivated by you an expression that i used to think was stupid improbable and unnatural but which i now see might be possible this is something different for catherine yeah she was infatuated with him from this and they write each other constantly you can imagine how that would be the day maybe just leaving little nose of emails and knows no each other but it's not all smooth failing because they're both so passionate and
both very demanding he's jealous she's terrified that he'll get bored with her and neither one wants to believe that the other one could possibly love them as much as they do so nothing is ever enough and in other words it was a bit of a roller coaster and those of course get tiring her letters are full of anxiety she repeatedly refers to herself ass ill mad weak and must tellingly wrote oh how awful it is to love extraordinarily peterkins demands go beyond the bounds of what you expect from someone in a relationship with you he wants political positions that proclaim his status and its largest
eager thing he's very politically minded in fact that's one of the things that catherine loved about him they can have really good conversations therein even match with each other but he ascends the ranks very very quickly and very impressively and of course a lot of people think this it's just cause he's katharine's new boy toy but he was of course but he was also a very talented and political man is good at political matters he's good at military matters he suited for his attention and we ve got a good quote from of all people stalin who said at what was the genius of catherine the great her greatness lay in the choice of prince baton can end up such talented officials to run the state so relationship with the tonkin has the stolen seal of approval and it's just a little run down of some of them of the honour of some of the honor if you receive the order of saint alexander nevsky in poland he received the order of the white eagle katharine's council here
general in chief of the college of war he's the commander in chief of the catholic than cavalry he's account he's got command of the petersburg troops he's a prince of the holy roman higher and he gets a lot of money and even from peasants i think i'm gonna get you some peasants fear birthday for ready feeling a little futile this uruguay and a few of his accomplishments he built a fleet in the black sea he built the harbor of supposed to paul he helped and next crimea he did a lot in his in his time and government and when he died in seventeen ninety one you can imagine how that shook her world we do have a few lingering questions of her relationship that always come up the main one of which is where they secretly married and some people
a few lingering questions of her relationship that always come up the main line of witches were they secretly married and some people say yes and in their letters they often refer to each other the husband and wife so it's entirely possible that they had some sort of ceremony and it probably wasn't a legal y know if if they did have one if it may have been a way of expressing their deep commitment to each other a commitment that she become pregnant by potemkin and rounding says no she became very ill during their romance and disappeared for a bed from the public eye but catherine blamed on eating twenty peaches in an afternoon a fact we put on our twitter missed in history if you didn't see it and we're georgia girls and even we can't eat twenty peaches one after
the terrible idea and it's just too bazaar of a fact to be made known no one would make up something that through potentially horrifying it with a peach explanation and we have an excerpt from another letter that catherine road again that gives you a good idea at the state of their relationship i need not to see you for about three days if that is possible to give my mind time to calm down and for me to come to my senses or you will soon grow bored with me and how could it be otherwise i am very very angry with myself today and scolded myself and tried in every way to be more sensible and these of course are the words of a woman whose losing her head falling head over heels scared of her lack of control and an empress cannot afford to be a fool for love of catherine obvious
needs a different kind of relationship something that is just a little easier honour and that brings us to peter is of a dusky and in many of our podcast we have talked about infidelity if you're a long time listener you know that and we ve been accused of being too narrow minded about that we dispute the claim in some cases it isn't really infidelity of both parties are aware of the others extramarital sexual activities and accept and encourage them but in others it is a case of simmering anger and jealousy and especially of powerlessness because often and the tales weave told one of the people involved is a royal and ass carte blanche and you might lose your head if your husband thinks you slept with someone else and he himself would like to sleep with someone else and whereby while end if you're a guy sleeping with le monde
as we learned all bets are off let us make the first mrs a dangerous game to play but in the case as the dusky this is a fairly welcome introduction of a third party into early shep yeah because clearly the relationship between potemkin and catherine wasn't sustainable they couldn't keep this that he still wants to be top dog though he's not gonna be cast aside he's gonna maintain some sort of position in his government so away to defuse the situation a way for them to still function as friends and confidence is to bring somebody else then another dusky wasn't as high maintenance as the champion but he also wasn't cut out for this position of male mistress he was a bit bewildered in his new role was quite sure how to handle it and the sort of diplomacy required and of course he is both a sign
jack's and a lover which is a strange power dynamic kind of lost it after a while he was them he wasn't ready for that catherine doesn't have the patience to deal with that i who i really love this note she wrote him it starts off one stay with me to believe it when i say something three do not quarrel hourly about trifles virtue in him but most important potemkin realises that this situation works out well for him like i was saying it it's away to defuse the situation and maintain his power so here eliza as well i'm gonna heat catherine stocked he was the procure and first he brings her someone's or at who ends up trying to get rid of become can which never works catherine like him better than you do in question then ivan risky course a cough who is hot young and
all male as she described is the most ridiculous quote i think i've ever read and a bad guy there he was also described by an outsider as silly and he must have been because he cheated on catherine and then went blabbing about it all over town so potemkin help put a stop to them one right away but finally we come to alexander landscape and this when catherine picks out herself because it doesn't look like champion has a really great you did not work out he doesn't ever tasted all though unlike rim ski course the cause of this data man he loves her he respects her he makes her happy and they simply enjoy each other's company it through to taking things down and not for her huh
haven't disrupt her life in any way instead he adds to it and he entertains her he's he's kind to her and she hopes that she'll grow old with him but in june seventeen eighty four he fell ill and am progressed very suddenly within a week he was dead catherine was devastated and inconsolable for months and wrote i do not know what will become of me but in seventeen eighty five she has another distraction yermil off another boy has been found by the champion who also tries to get rid of charm can and does not six none of them will and in seventeen eighty six the champion brings her another man mama laugh mamma is also young and good looking like a lot of catherine later lovers and she says that he has a most excellent heart with a great store of honesty he has wit enough for four and
mainly sounds like a wine little brown allowing she had great judgement on this one now apparently he had cheated on her as well and he wanted to end his affair with catherine but it ended badly because instead of fino manning up in doing it in a gentleman why he blamed her for everything not all man perhaps now so she is out of the game for a little bit until a twenty two year old catches her eye in seventeen eighty nine she was sixty at the time and his name's plot anew and somehow this twenty two year old and that more powerful than between can who comes back and tries to overthrow him reestablish his own position sneaky and his greedy and generally felt completely off her taste really goes down
she's wonderful on everyone around has just shaking their heads in going no no no and we mention his wandering i but somehow he ends up with the title of prince of the holy roman empire so apparently there just handing those out at the time but at least catherine son paul did one good thing after her death he told soup off to get out of russia although later she walked came back and helped assassinate him referring here so catherine has this incredibly promiscuous reputation but history gonna show she has just a series of monogamous relationships one after each other there a lot but hey and her personality in her life just haven't been represented accurately in history she's then besmirched she was a woman of great depth a complicated ruler and a woman who loved fiercely i rather like her but ass for her
most famous lover sarah taken away it brings us to the horrors of course and if you haven't heard the horror story it goes like this catherine has this special voice devised to help her have sex with a horse and it breaks and the horse falls on her in the middle of things and she dies though we ve talked about some pretty weird people on the spot castrate in our past pike has deficit series of their unusual sexual proclivities unthinking caligula mrs you but this is not that kind of episode as we ve learned catherine was in love with love and also with saxon this quality and a woman never goes remarked upon even today you can listen to stuff mom never told you for a lot more on that sort of thing but long before catherine died it she was frequently the subject of lewd jokes because of her personal life it's the east
way to attack someone who's politically powerful by zeroing and on their personal life instead of our policy is especially when it is a sixty year old impressed with the twentieth very annoying on yeah and this reputation as a woman of lustful inclinations happened to coincide with a courtiers tail in sixteen forty seven of russians being particularly preoccupied with sodomy especially of the wine variety there is absolutely no basis for this but a story like that just takes off line catherine was a horsewoman after all and there are some rumours about her lover light gray who is the nice lever the one we level hang in the line as she's the one we think you should take but there is a story that he o d an aphrodisiac and he kept on talking about horses and weird stories about horses and people started thinking of catherine
maybe there's something strange with her going on to the second all get tangled up together and there you have it pizza sauces that would endure for hundreds of years the watch email i will but not before i make a few recommendations first learn more about catherine and however many things about her following a fund twitter list in history and checking out our basic van if you have something to add to the russian you're not maybe your opinion about the words you can email history of hard cash than has an important item and if you want to learn a little more about gas that they have a really good article on it how gossip work and you can find it by searching on our homepage w w w dot how stuff works stock com for more on this and thousands of other topics because it has
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Transcript generated on 2020-02-06.