We’re taking a look at Francisco Franco and the Spanish Civil War. We've talked about Spain’s parliament voting to exhume the remains of dictator Francisco Franco and relocate them to a state-funded mausoleum, and we’re giving that entire situation more context.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Teen hundreds doors or online and honesty boat outcome. Welcome to stuff you missed in history class from Housetop works, dotcom, hello and welcome to the pond cat, I'm Tracy within an appalling crime. We are kicking off on earth the season with a look tat, Breathless Go Franco and the spanish civil war. These are topics that have come up bought on earth a lot of times. At this point in particular, we have talked about the discovery of Mass graves in Spain, connected to the war and efforts to identify the bodies and in return them to family members wherever possible. We have also talked last year.
about Spain's parliament voting to exude the remains of dictator. Francisco Franco and relocate them somewhere at that time they were talking about a state funded mausoleum. The spanish civil war was also part of our six impossible episodes this past June, and we talked about the evacuation of about four thousand children after the bombing of Unita every time any of this comes up in an episode. I think we really need to get into more detail on that, because we have not talked about a ton of spanish history and since debate over what to do with bankers remains, has contain
to make headlines all throughout twenty eighteen, I mean I think I have like ten articles about it pinned on our unearthed pen board. This seemed like a good time to finally do
so we are going to talk about his career, both as a military man and a dictator, and why there is so much contention about what to do regarding his final resting place, and this is also what are those topics that can really be a whole series you could launch
an entire podcast. That's only about the run up to the spanish civil war,
and then the war itself and then that the dictatorship that followed it. So that's really are. Our focus is military service time
the dictator and why there is such controversy over exactly what to do with his remains.
Francisco Franco Bahamonde Day was born December. Fourth, one thousand eight hundred and ninety two in El Farol in Northwestern Spain for generations. The men in his family had served in the Navy and his father was an officer in the spanish naval. Administrative core Franco's plan was to join the Navy as well.
And he started studying at the Naval Preparatory Academy when he was twelve, but the spanish Navy was still really struggling to recover from the spanish American WAR
point, including the loss of pretty much a whole pacific fleet at the battle of middle obey, as
built, the Naval Academy canceled its entrance exams the year that Franco was supposed to take them. So he shifted over to the army instead and started attending the Infantry Academy in one thousand nine hundred and seven when he was fourteen frank, I didn't have much in common with his classmates and later on. The same is true for his fellow soldiers. He was small and he had a high voice and he was
for it. He also had a reputation for being extremely serious and reserved, while the other men tended to spend their free time drinking and looking for women. In this way, Frank
was a lot more like his mother than his father. His father was known as an accent
womanizer, who was too casual with money, while his mother was a devout Catholic who is serious and austere frigates performance at the Naval Academy with competent, but it wasn't exceptional after I graduated, he spend a couple of years stationed in his home town before being granted a transfer that he had requested to Morocco. He was transferred therein nine
in twelve, when he was nineteen years old, a small part of northern Morocco had become spanish territory during the scramble for Africa too. Quickly. Recap that the scramble for Africa spanned the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries as multiple European nations divided Africa among themselves, without
Guard to the nations, empires and kingdoms that were already there and without any input from any actual Africans
Spain's control of northern Morocco is part of a very complicated deal in which Britain, France and ITALY were all trying to secure their own interest in parts of northern Africa.
In the end, most of Morocco was under french control, but the northern part closest to Spain just right across the water, from the southern Tipp of Spain, connected to both the Atlantic and the Mediterranean. That part,
spanish territory after arriving in Morocco, Franco was promoted to firstly tenant in command of Moroccan Cavalry Regiment and he approached his command the same way he had approached his time at the academy he was competent, professional, prepared, serious and honest in nineteen fifteen at the age of twenty two, he was promoted to captain making him the youngest captain in the spanish army,
This wasn't just because of his competence, though it was also because he put a bigger priority on self preservation than some of his fellow officers did so he moved up through the ranks.
Is there a where we did our killed? He gets I need to do this until he was seriously wounded in nineteen sixteen and transferred back to Spain to recover
While he was there, he met Carmen Polo II, Martinez Valdez and the two of them plans to get married, but in nineteen twenty Franco was made. Sex
in command of the spanish Foreign Legion and sent back to Morocco, so the two of them didn't actually get married until one thousand nine hundred and twenty
we later on. They also had one daughter, Franco, second, stretch of military service and Morocco mostly took place during a war between spanish colonial forces and the risky and people you will also see them referred to. Simply
the riff. This was a five year war that began after the riffian people try to break away into an independent republic. Spain faced a massive defeat in July of nineteen twenty one losing between eight thousand and ten thousand men and being forced to retreat. A combination of french and spanish forces put down the uprising in nineteen twenty five Franco, one of the most vocal and visible spanish officers in this extremely bloody war.
And he was increasingly celebrated for that back in Spain along the way he was also promoted to Lieutenant colonel and made commander of the spanish Foreign Legion. He was promoted to
your general and nineteen twenty six making him the youngest brigadier general in all of Europe. Two years later, he was made director of Spain's General Military Academy throughout Franco's life. Up to this point, Spain had been a monarchy ruled by King Alfonso, the thirteen
Alfonso's father had died before he was born, so he was a monarch from birth, although his mother acted as regent until one thousand nine hundred and two since one thousand eight hundred and seventy six. Spain's constitution had also required government controls, elections that rotated through liberal and conservative parties
The set up sounds really chaotic to me, and on top of that, it was also prone some initiation and corruption and by the nineteen twenties things were getting worse: a military coup and nineteen twenty three
published Miguel Primo De Rivera as Prime Minister. He ran the spanish government as a dictatorship. Another series of attempted coups after that tried, but failed to remove him from office.
Spain's colonial activities and Morocco were also very expensive and very bloody, and Spain was really not getting a lot to show from all of that. There were repeated assassination attempts against both King Alfonso in his wife Eugenia and then the Wall Street crash of nineteen. Twenty nine, combined with ongoing economic issues to spark the great depression
all of these factors, ultimately lead to both Primo De Rivera and King Alfonso losing support, including the support of the military.
Primo De Rivera was forced out of office shortly before dying in nineteen thirty and the king was forced to leave Spain on April 14th, one thousand nine hundred and thirty one, although he did not formally abdicate
Because Spain had very briefly better Republic from eighteen, seventy three, the eighteen, seventy for the period after Alfonso departure, is known as the second republic becoming a republic did not fixed Spain's problems, though
Spain's newly democratic government started, trying to roll out a series of mostly pretty liberal reforms, most people in rural parts of Spain, where landless laborers, so efforts were made to redistribute lands to them
The new government also tried to reform the education system and reduce the power of the catholic church. It also tried to drastically reduce military spending and the size of the military. This affected Francisco Franco Dirt
Clearly, the General Military Academy was dissolved and he was placed on inactive status. This
this government faced increasing criticisms over all of these reforms. They tended to happen very slowly due to a range of issues, including bureaucracy and the great depression.
Eventually they were unpopular on every side. Those on the political right objected to the proposed reforms happening at all, while those on the last thought they were ambitious enough or happening fast enough.
Then, in nineteen thirty, three conservatives gained a majority in the spanish parliament and started rolling back what view reforms had been made.
in the earlier administration. Franco was restored to his former position,
army and a year later he was promoted again in nineteen. Thirty for minors went on strike in the Asturias region of Spain, and this strike progressed into a revolt. The revolt was violently suppressed by the spanish military
and once again, Franco was praised for his role in putting down an uprising. Franco got a lot of praise for putting down uprisings. That was like one of the things people loved best about him.
but by that point things were really unravelling in Spain speaking
and very broad strokes. People were increasingly police.
Divided and polarized between the left and the right groups. Parties and factions on each side started coalescing into unified movements on the left, with the popular front and on the right with the national front. In the February 16th one thousand nine hundred and thirty six election, the popular front won the match
We in the spanish parliament, the newly elected government, was concerned about rising nationalism within Spain's military. The military was purged of suspected conspirators and
high ranking officers were transferred to remote territory to get them out of the way one of these are thirsty was transferred, was Franco throughout his career has
actions had been really clearly aligned with the more nationalist side of spanish politics, but he had never vocally taken aside in politics and he had not participated in the earlier political coups that the military had tried to use undertake
after the nineteen thirty six election, though he thought the political situation in Spain was really precarious. He started appealing to this new government to declare a state of emergency. He was instead.
transferred to the canary islands off the coast of Northern Africa to get him out of the way he would return to Spain during the spanish civil war. But we are going to talk about after we. First pause for a little sponsor break situated on the beautiful cable beach by Hamas is a spectre.
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from the creation of the second republic until nineteen thirty sex, the spanish government really struggled to try to hold it
country together during this series of increasingly turbulent elections and the creation of these coalitions
Among the nations, various political parties and groups and as we noted before, the break people had become extremely polarized.
The nations military leaders tended to be aligned with the national front after the nineteen thirty six election, they feared the influence of communists and Socialists in Spain and objected to the reforms and policies that the new government started. Making
as a result, generals under Emilio Mola started planning. Another coup at First Franco was not eager to have any part of all this.
like we said earlier. His actions were obviously more in line with the nationalist side of things, but he had avoided taking a public political position and he
already gotten a punitive transfer to the canary islands. He just didn't want to get caught up in an attempted coup that have the potential to fail and then completely destroy. Him
career, but I was planning went on and it started to look more like mollusk, you might be successful. Franco changed his mind. The coup was set to take place on July 18th, one thousand nine hundred and thirty six
rising beginning within the army and Morocco on the day before Franco, initially broadcast a manifesto from the canary islands, but soon return to Morocco to take command of the Army of Africa, which would become the nationalist army. This coup is also cited as where the term fifth column comes from. That term came up. I think in our executive order. Ninety sixty six episode with people in the United States,
that they feared a fifth column of japanese insurgents, so Emilio Mullah had four columns that would head toward me.
Ed, and then he described that there was also a fifth column of supporters in Madrid who would rise up and fight with them when they got there. However, the coup as planned was not successful. The nationalist force was unable to take Madrid setting off almost three years of
devastating civil war speaking again and broad strokes. This was a war between the left and the right on the run
or the nationalists they tend to be catholic and affluent, a lot of them owned land or businesses. Alot of nationalists were also monarchists, and the nationalists were backed by the spanish military
then on the left, were the Republicans also known as the loyalist, which largely included people in the middle class along
laborers and both agriculture and in the urban centres. The loyalist side was loyal to the government that had been democratically elected in nineteen thirty six, while the Nationalists wanted to overthrow that government. This war was incredibly bloody and brutal. Twenty seven nations
signed, a non intervention agreement, but Germany, ITALY and the Soviet Union disregarded it, Germany and ITALY,
did with the Nationalists, and the Soviet Union sided with the Republicans all three nation,
provided military aid to their respective sides when the
me of Africa was moved from Morocco to Spain. It was done with aircraft from Germany, and ITALY was also the bombing of civilian targets that we talked about him at six impossible episodes earlier this year as the war, where, on
individual cities and towns fell and were retaken with huge casualties on both sides, including among civilians. So the nationalist force would take a city and execute Republicans supporters. Only for the republican forests do the same thing after taking it back or the reverse would happen regardless, though the death toll was immense and the civil war was marked by atrocities
both sides of the fighting on October. First, one thousand nine hundred and thirty six, the nationalists I'd named Franco its head of state. By that point, the other leading generals have been killed in combat or plane crashes. He started further consolidating the various parties and factions to try to make one unified nationalist side. One of these, the Salinger or Phalanx Party became the official national Estate Party in April of nineteen thirty seven four months later, thanks to the nationalist pro catholic leanings, the Vatican formally recognized Franco as the spanish head of state. At that point, the international brigades had also started
in Spain. The international brigades were, as the name suggests, volunteers from numerous nations. A lot of that organization effort had been spearheaded by the Soviet Union. These are people who came to Spain from all these other places to fight on the side of the loyalists
By the end of the war, more than sixty thousand volunteers had served with the international brigades. Most of them were from France. Although people came from roughly fifty countries a lot of the people who volunteered to fight we're socialists, communists to do
and labour organizers. George Orwell also fought with the republican Army and wrote homage to Catalonia about the experience by the spring of nineteen. Thirty nine Franco's nationalists were headed toward victory. Republican soldiers and civilians had started flee
toward France. Catalonia was the last major republican stronghold aside from Madrid and after it fell the republican side surrendered fracas
entered Madrid on March twenty Eightth and the war was formerly over on April first nineteen thirty nine estimated death toll from the spanish civil war is five hundred thousand people. Although the now
Lists placed the figure out more like a million people immediately after the war was over. Spain's population at the time was about twenty five million people, so about two percent of the population was killed just in the war.
But the bloodshed didn't and win. The war was over as many as a hundred thousand people disappeared after the war, as the nationalist regime started, executing people with republican sympathies, hundreds of thousands more were made political prisoners, Republicans were also exiled and people all across the political spectrum, died of starvation and disease after the war or left Spain in the wake of it
Franco became Spain's ruler in a government that technically had a parliamentary system but was really a military dictatorship. The parliament was more like an advice.
Sorry body than an actual legislative government branch and Franco was this
all authority over policies and decisions, Franco's government restored power to the catholic Church and did not tolerate descent laws, restricted civic freedoms, including the freedom of speech.
And people who opposed the government were tried in military courts and given sentences that were harsh and arbitrary on September. First, one thousand nine hundred and thirty nine. Just five months after the end of the spanish Civil WAR, Germany invaded Poland, which marks the beginning of Europe's involvement in world war. I,
and it seems likely that Spain would ally with the access powers of ITALY and Germany, especially given ITALY in German
military assistance. On the nationalist side, during the spanish Civil WAR, Spain's
Taylor ship was also more aligned with Nazi Germany and fascist ITALY that it was with the allied powers, but Franco prove to have the same kind of self preservation
from that he did back in the early years of army service, he met with both out of Hitler
but he does you Selina and discussed what it would take for Spain to join the war on their side. Spain wanted territory after the war was over, including Gibraltar and Morocco, and Spain also wanted huge amounts of assistance to Hell
with the recovery from the civil war. Neither ITALY nor Germany was willing to agree to Spain's terms finding their way to demanding. Hitler is widely reported to have said after this meeting that he'd quote rather have three or four teeth pulled than ever have to have a meeting with Franco again so Spain sympathized with the axis powers, but mostly stayed neutral in world war two but ass. It seemed increasing,
likely that the access powers were going to lose. Franco started, making gestures to the allies, for example, Franco
loud allied pilots who were shot down free passage through Spain, so that they can get back to their units for Portugal. He allowed jewish refugees similar passage through Spain,.
Spain's relative neutrality during World war, two was not enough to gain the trust of other world leaders after the war was over, though Franco was described as the last surviving fascist dictator. Consequently, Spain was barred from joining the union
nations and the other United Nations member states withdrew their ambassadors out of Madrid. Spain was also
left out of the Marshall Plan that was meant to aid Western Europe's recovery after the war was over. However, Spain's international eyesight
She did not last very long as the cold war grew between the United States in the Soviet. You
in Franco, was vocally anti communist, as we noted
episode of the Mirabal Sisters, the United States, was willing to overlook a lot when it came to nations that opposed communism. The United States and Spain started re establishing more normal diplomatic relationships in nineteen. Forty eight and one thousand nine hundred and fifty three, the two nations signed a millet
assistance pact that involved allowing the? U S to build military bases in Spain. In exchange for economic aid, Spain was alive.
I join the United Nations in nineteen fifty five. By that point, Spain was at least
technically a monarchy. Again, the ninety
Eighty seven lives accession, which was passed in part to make Spain's government more palatable to other nations, had established that Spain was a monarchy
That Franco was just acting as a regions until naming a successor, but this law didn't set any kind of timeline. For that to happen, it gave Franco the freedom to be regents kind of in quotation marks for life. In the nineteen fifties and sixtys student protests led Franco's regime to relax some of its more authoritarian policies, at least somewhere.
But there was still ongoing resistance to Franco's rule along with violence from separatists. This was partake.
really true among basque nationalists, but to be cleared. The Basques were not the only separatists in Spain. Spain's remaining colonies also pressed for independence with Morocco becoming independent of both Spain and France. In nice,
fifty six and one thousand nine hundred and sixty nine Franco finally named his successor, Prince Juan Carlos, the grandson of Alfonso XIII, Franco continued acting as regent until one thousand nine hundred and seventy three. Although he continued to work behind the scenes after that,
till his health prevented it. He died in Madrid on November twentieth, nineteen, seventy five. After more than a year of very serious illnesses, Franco's
Your place is what brought us to doing an episode on him today and we are giving it to vat after we pause for a little sponsor break. This episode has brought you buy Office Depot Office Depot as supplies and services for businesses of any size. I you speak to this personally. As a college student, when I was a business, the size of one office Debo provides twenty four seven tech support. It lets you print your own marketing materials and it can help you design your office with a bunch of furniture solutions. They also have exactly the supplies. Your office needs from your home office to a commercial set up. They ve got the ink. I've got the paper, they ve got the cleaning, they ve got the brake room supply. So when I was setting up my home office, I went straight to office depot because I had a ton of stuff I needed to get, and I wanted to get it all in one place
but don't take my word for it see for yourself office depots, ready to help your business with knowledgeable associates in over one thousand three hundred stores or online at office depot dot com. After Juan Carlos became king of Spain, he and his prime minister, Adolfo Suarez Convalesce started reforming the spanish government. A new constitution was passed on December six. Nineteen, seventy eight with almost unanimous support this constitution established Spain as a constitutional monarchy with the monarch in an apolitical role that nineteen seventy eight
institution also establishes that spanish citizens are equal under the law, and that includes fundamental right
and freedoms like the freedom of religion, freedom of expression and freedom of privacy, this was, of course not the end of strife in Spain.
but one Carlos was able to make sweeping changes that modernized, Spain, protected civil rights and restored democracy. Ironically, a big factor in his
our to do. That was that he was following Francisco Franco, as head of State Franco had given himself very broad powers,
and after following him, Juan Carlos use that power to make big changes. He basically use that power that Franco had had passed on to him to do the opposite of what Franco had done during his time as Dick
later, and these reforms were really not what a lot of people expected of the new king, Juan Carlos, had very vocally praised Franco when he was named successor and then after Franco's death. He made the Franco family part of spanish nobility, so Francisco Franco's daughter was the first duchess of fright
but Juan Carlos had also started secretly meeting and planning with democratic reformers. Long before Franco even died, the king also oversaw for
those funeral and his burial in the valley of the fallen outside of Madrid, the Valley of the fallen is an immense monument whose construction started a year after the spanish civil war ended, and it went on for twenty years. It's a basilica encrypt at the foot of a cliff, with a massive granite cross. On top of the cliff really hard to describe the sheer immensity of this whole thing,
and, during its construction Franco, had described this monuments and its building as an act of atonement and reconciliation, one that was meant to bring Spain together. However, it was also built by republican political prisoners. The circumstances of that building are described as everywhere from forced labour to political prisoners being promised time off of their sentences. If they worked on this being built, it was also
tended from the start, to basically be a monument to Franco and to be his own massive tomb after the monument was finished, the bodies of thirty three thousand eight hundred forty seven people who,
who killed during the war were exude and reinterred in the surrounding forest to increase the scale of the monument. This was often down with
The permission or knowledge of the families and records were also really spotty. So in many cases people whose family members,
remains were relocated now have no idea exactly where they are and there are ongoing
legal battles to exude identify and return people's remains, there really hurt
breaking stories and all of this, and as far as people a few
like a cat. I'm looking for my grandfather meticulously tracing the process of
or their grandfather was finally figuring out. We exactly where he was killed and where
people killed in that battle were buried only to be told that everyone there was just dug up and transported to the
the valley of the fallen without anybody keeping track of exactly where only too
People, though, are buried inside the church itself at the valley of the fallen, there's Francisco Franco and then there's the foliage party leader, Jose
new Prima De Rivera and today Admission
into this church is only supposed to be for religious purposes, but for decades people came to leave flowers on Franco's grave or to spit on it or vandalized at or try to blow it up.
People visit the valley of the fallen because they lost family members and the war, but they also visit annually on Franco's birthday to memorialize him
over the years there have been repeated proposals to exude Francisco's remains and move them somewhere else to a more modest location that isn't effectively a monument to a dictator, some
that wouldn't become a pilgrimage site for fascists, but those proposals have proven to be incredibly controversial. Unlike Germany and ITALY, Spain did not suffer a military defeat during World war. Two, there was no war crimes investigation, no formal attempts to seek justice and atonement after the civil war was over. Instead, the exact opposite happened in nineteen. Seventy seven political leaders agreed to what was called the pact of forgetting some
This is described as the pact to not ever discussed the civil war again, but that's not exactly right. It was more like a negotiation among the various political factions to not let the war get in the way of working together to form a government and not to invest government resources into trying to resolve the past. This was followed by a nineteen. Seventy seven
see, law that legally formalised that agreement, this law released political prisoners and allowed people who had been forced out of Spain to return, but it also protected the people who committed war time, atrocities from ever being processed
you did all this means that nobody on any side was ever held accountable for the many atrocities of the spanish civil war and the fascist regime that followed, including Franco. There was no investigation, no truth, commission, no civic commemoration of milestone anniversaries of the war. Spain, instead just tried to leave the past in the past and move on that has started to change. Only very recently, Spain's two thousand seven law of historical memory, condemned Franco and his regime, and establish terms for removing some monuments from the frame.
Arab. It also recognise the people who fought on both sides of the war and establish the victims of the war and the dictatorship, and their descendants could seek restitution. The attempts to identify bodies in mass graves that we ve talked about on the show before mostly started after the passage of this two thousand seven law. Just this year, Spain announced
plans to establish a truth. Commission, the historical memory law and legislation to examine Franco's remains and similar steps have generally been taken when socialists have had the majority and Spain's government it and that's been over the objection of Spain's conservative parties. Conversely, when conservative parties have had power
Maybe they're tried to roll back those earlier laws or stopped supporting
are allocating money in the budget to carry them out, and a lot of people feel like the his
Michael Memory, law and other similar legislation. Is this digging up a horror from the past that should be left there? All of this has control
did to Spain being really divided over the legacy of Francisco Franco and how he should be remembered on one side or people who consider him a fascist dictator whose regime murdered or imprisoned hundreds of thousands of people following an attempted coup against democratic,
Elected government on the other side. Are people who think this attempted coup was unnecessary intervention against communism and the Republicans would have treated their opponents. The exact same way if they had won and since the republican forces, also committed massacres and attack
cities during the war. There are also a lot of people living in Spain, whose family members were killed by the loyalists and not by Franco's regime, because Franco's dictatorship
was motivated more by a military style efficiency than by a specific political doctrine. Another
Gay man was that he was sort of noise
that bad as fascist dictators go. This reminds me of growing,
been North Carolina and we would talk about slavery and history class and was sort of like well
we didn't have merely as many slaves of South Carolina, so it's
not that bad, which is just not a very valid argument. There's a whole lot of heat
the dictator, but he was a good dictator or he was authoritarian, but not totalitarian is the his supporters. Also
note that he never smoked or drank and has never known to have had an extra marital affair, and they point to this is evident
that he was a moral man rather than being a war,
Criminal plus Spain's economy started moving in the nineteen sixties, which continued until Franco's death. This period is nicknamed the spanish miracle.
Franco himself didn't really have anything to do with it, apart from handing the country's economic leadership over to relatively young ministers who liberalize the economy, but it still means that some people remember him as having finally rescued Spain from the economic devastation that followed the civil war and that went on for decades. Afterward. Spain has also faced a huge economic crisis over the past decade, so many people who remember the sixties remember them as a time when Franco brought prosperity which democracy has now taken away. Plus all those decades leading up to the spanish civil war were very turbulent, with increasing the vision and a series of coups and attempted cues before the war itself even started by compare
then Franco's dictatorship with kind of com. All of this is complicated by the fact that Spain has never had a thorough accounting of the war and Franco's dictatorship, and it is divisive one pole conducted in July of twenty eighteen asked are you in for,
of removing the remains of Francisco Franco from the Valley of the fall in just under forty one percent said yes to the question: do you think it's a good time to address the issue more than fifty four percent said? No, I've also really still unfolding Franco's design
thence have said that they would like to have him Marie interred in the family, crept at La Madonna Cathedral in Madrid with full military honours, but that plan has brought on criticism that it would just make his burial place even more accessible.
and just as likely to be made in some basically a new shrine, a shrine that would,
a monument to fascism and we
are recording this episode on December, eleventh twenty eighteen, at which point the issue is still not settled, which means that I feel
We believe that three days for seven huge news story will break there will change
think that said about where it currently stay. If that is it,
and when we record episodes that reach into the current era, yet it's pretty much immediately after we closed the door and recording then suddenly there's a brand new needs that mean the most recent
articles that I read about this were firm yesterday and we're you know we went and we go into the studio at ten o clock on Tuesday morning. So too thick three
like yesterday afternoon, was my last news update on the status of the burial place of Francisco Franco
all right away until about twenty minutes after the episode publishes said rang, prepping for holidays were prepping in advance, so will be like trying to have Christmas ship at madly, trying to acknowledge that things have shifted, free up completely
do you have a little bit a listener? Mayo, I view, and it is from Katy Katy, says longtime listener and huge fan Katy here.
a month ago he did an episode on Kristallnacht which later raised the discussion about the evolution of the name for that night last week I happened to be in Berlin at the museum, the topography of terrorists.
Where, coincidentally, they were showing a special exhibit on that night. The exhibit itself was called Kristallnacht, but then throughout the text of the exhibit the event was referred to as rights programme knocked. I found that interesting and thought you might as well. They didn't really address the evolution of the name, but did address how awareness of the event has grown in the past decade.
Attached our photos of the exhibit overall, it was incredibly moving asked the was the museum itself built over the black that used to contain the headquarters of the S S and the gestapo, also in episode suggestion in pictures the gate of Ishtar. So she goes, I'm sorry about the gate of Ishtar in this email included. Six really beautiful photograph,
of the gate and then also of a part of that museum exhibit. So, thank you so much Katy. That was an interesting.
Look at how a museum in Berlin might address the fact that people may
remember something by one name when that name is not necessarily the preferred language in Germany. Now, if you would like to write to us about this or any other podcast where history podcast it has to work,
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our pod cast on applied catch, the eye heart radio out and wherever you get pod gas for more on this and thousands of other topics visit Housetop works, tat com. This episode brought to you by Office Depot Office Depot has supplies and services for businesses
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