Few riots can be attributed to passing fashions, but zoot suits are top among them. After originating among the Harlem Renaissance crowd, the zoot suit came to symbolize political defiance. Find out why it's still illegal to wear a zoot suit in L.A.
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Welcome to stop. You should know from house to what extent
I welcome the Pakistan Josh Partners, Charles Debbie Checkers, Brian and since two other things together again and it's not lunchtime on his leg wrestling time to this means that you know how I just I'm good. We just got something in today. I want to give a shout of thanks for your friend Martin Weir Nostrand Document today. Ok, he kept Emily S. Pestering me. Land has not come here like I like him, the postmaster general, or something like that right, but anyway he sent us each a t, shirt and a new cd of his band. The Bangalore seer in vitro meat is the name of the album and it's pretty awesome. I listen to you a discard. It can wait. He cynicism some.
Things off of it already out some previous latin yeah. He he was the first person to record the stuff. You should know song like in two thousand eight remember well yeah, and I think he has talked supplies most a song on the new and write he does it. We ve inspire lot. I think you release the whole album of stuff. You should know someone really yeah, unlike quick little punk songs to like a minute and a half of those. Fifty of them there, but anyway thanks a lot of an austrian. We won't say his real name, but we know we do find.
We didn't for a long time but anyway, if you feel like checking that out, it's the Bangalore is like the city in India. An album is in vitro meat and will called again trouble for endorsing their families.
So shock you wanna, get too. Yes, I have you ever heard of them
down laws. Yeah man. There are some term laws in this greatly universe. For example, if I may have prepared a shortlist autumn in Alabama, bear wrestling matches are prohibited its elite
the cell peanuts in Lee County after Sundown on Wednesday, overly county alibi
To give reasons alone know there are some
This is from, I think, danglars dot com and
They have like international laws, state laws,
was an under some of them. They have like full text to the law or why this lugs, sketch it's pretty comprehensive site in Hawaii,
coins are not allowed to be placed in one's ears for spending only tat. All residents may be fined as a result of not owning a boat.
You're going to Hawaii tomorrow right, I don't ask up what I dare you to put a coin in your ear and walk around and whirling out of again violating ILO known a blow. I don't own about tried, chumps back in our first date of Georgia to legally use profanity in front of a dead body which lies in a funeral home or in a corners office. That's respectful! That's a good law
in a course which is close to Canada, where I grew up where you had a gun. I didn't notice in act with all citizens must own a rake really not have lower rate coca,
I think a blur. The cannon like asking a lot of some some of the results were income classroom
in Athens on Mondays, it's illegal through one to whistle very loudly after eleven pm. What but on Mondays, and then California, of course, is going hasn't, zany lost. They have tons and tons
back. He done laws. Animals are banned from mating publicly within fifteen hundred feet of a tavern score or place of worship that I agree with women may not drive, and a house coat I entirely with that too. In Fresno, getting drunk in a playground is against the law that is
I don't agree with that,
and then in LOS Angeles, it's illegal to wear a suit suit air still still. While so I bring that up, and I need shook with like that
because I'm sure stories behind almost all the zany laws, or at least there, some reasoning, people not just make up crazy laws, bear wrestling.
Got out a hand once analogous like this. It is illegal so check in
actually know. The reason wisely suits are illegal in LOS Angeles County, California, and we're going to tell you about it today. It's pretty need. This
article started off as a bit of Asia, a lark avenue where we thought suits it does very interesting cool, but it's more than a suit.
As it turns out it, it was at least you should probably mentioned like what is as such.
Everybody seen him before,
Can the nineteen thirties they were very much in fashion, especially Anna and latino community.
An african american communities. Caustic us the YAP seems like Caesar Chavez, Malcolm,
Cab, Callaway, big ban leaders
jazz. Seen in New York, all very much associated with suits Tomcat from Tom and Jerry who was going after a girl, and she said she was a square and was corny and he goes out and get the Missouri suit and becomes
Cool can look out there, so I you you'll know as you too. There were originally morning made of war,
then later re on, but you'll know it because the very distinct they have very
very long wasted, coats soup
were worn, really really high like up over the belly
and were very tight at the top. Then ballooned out like empty hammer, style right and then tapered back down again at the ankle or were pegged. Oh of course, had sent you
gee that look up and down the jackets exaggerated contours in color.
A lot of times. It would where the big guy
watch chain that went down there me in the hat with a feather and desires, pointed choose sure. So they, if it sounds a lot like, come pimps, seventies. Pimps. Where to you not to forget, I think if you could make an argument, there's a predecessor there,
In fact, you met him. Malcolm X, favoured suits it. I didn't realize asleep in researching suits it. Malcolm X used to be called Detroit red. Who was, in fact a pimp.
And he apparently got his agitation Harlem and became Malcolm X. Did you not see the movie, none
It was good that, from what I remember from the awesome, slightly movie was that he was in
routine earlier and then once he INA became Malcolm X and not was his real name shares. Yes, I believe have now come to us. So once he became Malcolm X and got serious about civil rights, he pleaded the zones deficit
traditionally, garbed write another way so that the zoo to you you just nail on the head. You said the zoo suit seen it was very much part of the scene, part of the Harlem Renaissance. It was part of the patio seen out in LOS Angeles, which will talk about putter picture, but you go. Did you go
I used to like slang on top of slang, jail echo. The sailor was
in a word, the uniform of a certain kind of scene, apparently the upscale black night clubs of Harlem. I give if you saw an african american man,
growing is eat suit. You like that,
hi roller and he knows how to get into the good clubs. I thought you were gonna bust out. Some cab Callaway slow,
Well, you mention care. Callaway was one of the people who loves you sit and he wrote a dictionary of flying a drive, a job of jive, saying, thank you. I'm a could not be square.
If I tried in one of the year, one of the words that he put down was suit, which he says means exaggerate. It turns out that there's a whole
lot of mystery surrounding the origins of Zeus suit. But if I may, in Camp Callaway JIVE sighing describe what is it suit looks like you did a great
normal square corny yet terms. But if you want to talk like a have kept from the jive Jump, Zuzu Ere, you describe it as a killer dealer coat with draped shape, real police and shoulders
like a lunatic? So well, it's interesting me. He said draped because originally they were known as draped suits and even advertised as extreme quote: extreme drapes right and newspapers critical,
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twenty five percent off. So this is hanging out there. It's kind of weird
Alison wrote about row wrote about it as an invisible man. His novel
the narrator encounters three young and extravagantly dress flax in their seats, and he says that they were the stewards of something uncomfortable. So he saying like this is it's almost like it? It's the same as if Europe, if you saw a bunch of
Kids wearing like the stupid pant, yes in the nineties or wherever in our hip, hop kids. Today, as this is the same thing except, this is much much more upscale write them
but it was no doubt lads. Today, young people travel walking in, but there still gotta have that look. You know right cassettes with kids exactly so this was you could are
you. The original american version of Counter culture dress right.
Red and it grew out of Harlem was later adopted by some mixed. Can Americans latino Americans in LOS Angeles here? What's this one bed they
could have originated in gains. Will Georgia so yeah? There's a lot of there's some origin stories right
in the end their number the same right of either all very different? No, but I do like that, when you're talking about from game
what is a year? They
a man, a bus driver, I'm sorry bus worker and implied
can from New York, came back to New York with one and said he bought it gains for Georgia and allegedly he had been inspired by gone with the wind and wanted to look like Red Butler, and so I got a tailor
gains will then make a missing I'd like to go that story, and while the New York Times put that story for them, they said it basically unequivocally they didn't igniting forty three, and that was this,
for many many years until historians actually started put real effort in thought and a visit suits, and they found that there is possibly true, but most likely came out of either guys like cats, Callaway wearing them or guys. I kept Callaway copying people in jest
right and then in a basically going forth like that, and ultimately it seems that it did come out of this era. Weather is this Clyde Duncan fell?
right who had the idea originally whatever you can basically say the Harlem Renaissance, Zuzu came out of it
gotcha, and you know I knew that I did not know of its association within me, latino in largely mexican community now, but that's where, like really started to its switched when it hit the latino american community before it was dislike, I'm wealthier can get me good clubs and part of this kind,
seen in Harlem when it hit LOS Angeles and was taken up by the pot shows. The troika sprang square inch
transformed it turn into something political and became. Ultimately, a sign of defiance
We were too, you know. Everyone knows that there were those rationing going on everything from food to metals and ultimately, wall and cloth, so wearing a suit to which required an abundance of cloth was
I deemed not patriotic, because your basically flaunting hey, I don't care,
the war effort unaware my suits. You that's more important right exactly so that in in the forties, the war Production Board basically said we need to cut back all fabric use in the states by twenty six percent,
and help you here is the new american suit it streamline. It uses less fabric as long as you're making stuff. According to these, they sketches
you're patriotic, your American, your within the law, right uncle same ones, were tight clause, pretty much everything about. If you look at the seats in the fifties and Sixtys and after the forties that the American, the classic american suit, is narrow, narrow cut the costs, are high, skinny tat yeah, I'm. So I wonder if that came out, I'm sure they did, but you can take what they were saying a different way in that Uncle SAM.
Telling you dress like this and everybody just like that so suited immediately became a symbol of defined
is anybody warm were saying, you now appears Uncle SAM and it was ultimately illegal to manufacture or advertised
a zoo suit or anything that fell outside of those american suits so incredibly boots
An underground tailors, grew up to make and sells it suits us true
same time, especially LOS Angeles
an association with
gang activity, criminal activity in thuggery, largely because of newspapers that would call them. You know suit suitors committing crimes, they would now label people and its particular clothing
criminals. Essentially yet will racism is definitely nothing new in this country and it was hot and heavy in the late thirty's early forties, in LOS Angeles among it, was mainly targeted. I think toward latino Americans, but it's not like African Americans didn't get the brunt of. It is well sure, but basically was white people in California relay K. There's a lot.
These days, so you're, making this a little nervous and dumb
you wearing a suit suit is easy to target
happen that the group that they were targeting was actually
homogenous people who wore Zeus it's kind of war them in defiance, but also identified themselves with right, the potatoes yells estate,
independence, not necessarily thumbing your nose United States, but just hey. I'm independent latino living in LOS Angeles nineteen fortys- and this is our look so the patch us, but the put you first, the Duke US, the purchase, unseen power chose re here, Octavio Paz said: Porthos. They nachos yeah, look so the patch.
Were its they weren't an import from Mexico. They were a real american hybrid. They were second generation latino american kids, who I radically because of the war effort, were latch key kids. Their parents were off working, the night shift right for for war production and they were basically left to them their own devices. They call themselves twenty four hour orphans, the first latchkey kids
and they were also arguably the first rebels and out of their emergence in America, came the the whole concept of juveniles
Quincy near. I love that one quote from Octavio Paz Canary that yeah. He said the zoo too was a symbol.
Love, enjoy or horror
holding an embodiment of liberty of disorder of the forbidden, so it was the single fashion
meantime asserting your independence in and individuality, as well as what white folks eyes them in their nose the white man drastically, and then I guess, that's exactly what they are doing because, as you said, likely, weren't necessarily wearing the zoo suited his statement.
Anti war protesters right, but it was more like you know. I'm sick EU racist white people
and I'm I'm not going to high
identity are not going to try to blend in right. I'm not going to go back to my traditional routes for Mexico because I was born here, but am I can't
during the service and in way an american suit. So this is where this was the compromise and it kicked white people off like.
Raise the ear and sprightly in LOS Angeles here well, at the time in southern
for you. There was an enormous presence of service manager who were waiting to ship out to the Pacific. The
from California, and they were you know, rubbing elbows with these guys it alot of people, thought were gang. Members ensued, suitors and they rubbed elbows
in a very good way, either which you know ultimately led to the suits riots, but there were some pretty striking events that led up to that nineteen forty three summer. So one of the things you said you mention was that there were getting negative press right
people in suits. It were associated with things like a messy quote, the
good already reveals killing stabbings in cases of innocent women having been molested by suit suit gangsters. That's from the LOS Angeles examiner and the article was titled. Police must clean up Ella, hoodlum ism, which is not a word
federalism right did so it so there's this joint effort of this general racism among whites ended in the general public ends.
Servicemen waiting to be deployed specifically and the last
Those media can a fanning the flames and then the sleepy lagoon murder happened. The sleepy lagoon.
Kay sleepy lagoon Josh was a reservoir by the l, a river
there anymore in that pass their mother Nausicaa Plastics plant there now, there's no reservoir
Yes, don't go looking for, even though they said it. So roughly it was at fifty five hundred Slawson Boulevard in May would unaware that is actually things
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so the sleepy lagoon case at the time.
Americans were denied access to public pools and swimming halls and stuff, like that,
so they use sleepy again as a big hang out where they would go
the music and swam and have a good time an August two
nineteen, forty to the boy
of whose ideas was found at this reservoir and what I gathered
A big party like a Big House Party, where a fight broke out.
And one guy ended up getting killed.
As a result, they rounded up three to four hundred mexican american use had occurred.
Trial where they basically deny the many civil rights cooked up evidence had no Evan
had no physical evidence had no witnesses, nothing
the sword, and they basically pen that murder on twelve guys there right, nine kids
nobody around one out of three hundred
but they re nine with no evidence that the guy had even been murdered.
And eventually the sleepy Lagoon Defence Committee and the? U S. District court of appeals overturn that as a miscarriage of justice right, but the damage
already done. He had his killer, incidentally, was never found than ever singled. Anyone out which is safe,
that's gonna lost a lot of times. I think, but at the same time he can't is cook up a case against deeds that were there right and say that they did it exactly so that the present tension that the sleepy lagoon case received just fan the flames further and further
and then in June, no may of nineteen. Forty three yeah, that's on things, really started to take a turn for the worse right. I guess about a dozen servicemen. I think Navy boys were down in a still I and a few of them approach. Some girls, one of them kept walking and the one that kept walking
A group of pouches, her wearing suits us and winner when he passed. One of them apparently raised his hand in what they get,
is a threatening manner, so the surgeon and grabbed his arm and right after that, everything went black because some
knocked him over, the back of his head was something any Phelan broke. His joints, who places the other guy, see this. Then I see it
before they even react, the the pouches jump them, and these
Eleven other servicemen fight their way out here
further way over to where the guy is laying the guy who's knocked out with the broken
and gave him get him out of there. So this is not does not bode well for mexican American White Relations, in LOS Angeles and nineteen. Forty three
three days after that, like revenge, is on the mind of everybody. After news of this gets out yet big time, especially in the military community.
Basically sort of the same thing happened: Main Street EAST outlay. On June. Third,
and sailors got off a bus, and there were
words with a gang of young Mexicans and when I say gang I should say group in
shouldn't, say in a surly Mexicans. The delay
Who was that they were Mexicans, then I'm authorities, but there they were latino Americans. I try to get to the bottom of that word Chicano as well. I know I'm hispanic is from Ronald Reagan. Is it and it's basically it insinuates that everybody from central or Latin America
or South America comes from his pain, Yola well, and what I found from Chicago was that it was a net derogatory term early on very negative, but it meant specifically mexican
Hurricane and then later, I believe they some some of them,
to embrace that were again as I wanna ride, yeah her Sixtyth centres where it stands today, so
leave out was gonna, say
so they ran into this group of young Latinos, dressed in suits gotten an argument
The sailors of course claimed that they were jobs, although its unclear exactly
the LAPD responded and with it
above all to the officers and ended he offered officers calling themselves the vengeance squad
it upon themselves to clean up the streets of east away through the cap, roughhouse style, the cops, including off duty calves took on the name. The vengeance
and went down to the latin american quarters, latino american quarters and distorted beating,
yeah, and this really really set off what would be known as the suit suit riots. The next day, on June forth, about two
U S Navy servicemen jumped in a bunch of taxis
the east away and is fairly in Vienna Caravan like a mob essentially and started beating up,
scan, kids, twelve and learning Euro boys clubbing them stripping them of their clothes.
Their clothes does that there was the first group they encountered in a bunch of adults should intervene. They got club to then, after that it wasn't just people way.
Due to deal with any, let tee, no American, that they saw here. They storm movie, theatres, they storm bars, they stormed like any, yet they pull them out.
New cars yeah they in black eyes got caught up. In
to hear is right over. There lie african American going on on the street car in
make it wasn't Watts who is pulled off and beaten pop by service?
Just because you happen to be sitting there was black, it was, it
literally riot and it was perpetrated by white service.
For several days. It was known, as is its rights cops were there, but they had.
It is not arrest any of the servicemen, so they were gonna given Carte blanche for a few days. So for a few days, finally, the lessons of City Council comes it senses and bans the presence of any,
service men in their area of LOS Angeles and issues, an ordinance whereby zoo suits our problem?
and, in the end, a hundred and fifty people were injured and the riots police arrested more than five hundred Latinos on charges, ranging from writing to vagrancy, and I dont know if any servicemen were arrested
think bagel number here every is probably good guess I can't find any say didn't happen, but my feelings is probably is
and they are you know the local press
Hold it s called it a quote, cleansing effect and said it was a pretty great thing going on in the city when in fact it was one of the darkest some of the darkest days of of LOS Angeles and their history. Pretty said it is it's pretty said, aunt strange story. He added
mean. Is there anything else do this now I dont the aftermath is now I say
One interesting thing from the article was that,
years later, I young russian soviet teenagers would where's it suits area as an act of defiance against communism, communism yeah. So this article of clothing is fashioned statement.
Lot more than that. We address in this is one of those weird moment in history where it's not just like. Did you know the Zuzu com
this right, and then you find out that it didn't really right. This genuinely started it. This was part of this made these this power chose easily. I didn't
Targets the whole reason they were wearing. It was out of the fines in it is the establishment, like the zoo to cause these rights is crazy. It is crazy.
Heaven another lasting legacy. If I make sure it it juvenile delinquency, the whole concept of that coming out of this area. In this era, I believe gave rise to the like slew of great movies rebel without a cause sure the while one- and if I may I was a teenager, werewolf stirring, Michael women, who was a character saddled with a terrible affliction of throwing milk. So there's a little clip. I would like to say I put a lot of fight three times.
Up in the last month. You're just like you do want any formal complaints but time of borders in the supermarket it. The checkers mistake you it. You didn't even get a chance to rectify a poem you throw a cardinal milk right at him, contain bowling growth hormone, any turn into a giant com, so that was the mistress science due to three
and take known by land and, of course, and his milk throwing problem autumn, which probably wouldn't have existed Head Zuzu. It's not combat I've. Never heard of that movie. I was teens wherever they picked him because of his youth mounted
maybe he's he did the kind of where he read out, plus, even without the Mr Saint Cedar, three thousand guys discussing it against us frontal. It is a scandal
Yeah, look for podcast on the stone wall, riots, organ cover that seem to that's another overlooked blight american history like to point this out,
If you want to learn more about all the stuff, we talked about like a cat, Callaway JIVE Dictionary, you should search for their own, your favorite search engine scuttle. Yet you could also search version suit. Smithsonian mental bring up a pretty cool article from I think, like nineteen eighty four,
pretty comprehensive and, of course, the article on our own beloved site is excellent as well. You can type in zoos suits Z, o o t space, as you idea,
If you haven't known what we ve been talking about this entire time, you wanna take that into the search bar has therefore set it's, as I said, search bar friends, neighbours,
It is time for a listener. Man, you know. Some of that JIVE calculate jazz drive is still like a few of those words and recognises that can create established a lot of us like I'm not
the cool enough to speak like this on a regular basis by that's all I want am I really like corny came came from this era, really groovy. Ok, I say rivulet mood use for milk, never that you ve got her that there's a buddy g as a guideline thanks Buddy G of her. That
but it's g, h, e chrome crushers would keep pace, freebie no charge real. Iran is free that Cuba
some skin and came out of there.
We would not have one of the better part of the movie airplane if Jack
away in his cronies and come up with an I wish. I had one cell of my body that was a school was kept our views,
you know many. The meteor like had alighted drug references in Arabic. Yes, smoky is cookie. He like cocaine
how about kicking the gong around which apparently smoking opium and many actually in the extended version.
Is taken to an asylum where she dies and that's why,
and with poor man made man.
Bringing to call this polygraph inside scoop
given that anybody ever offer you polygraph personnel and kept the surrender
since in the pot gas- oh, he said dear Jacek, in Gary,
I just facility replied cast on possibly grass, but my personal. It's me.
Is my add a little to the discussions,
at one point in my life to submit of how a graph exams as a witness and a crime. I was interviewed by two different polygraph first at different times. I won t.
Equipment I did not hear you described, was a path that you sit on, which read
whether or not you fidgeted during questions, I'm glad you said fidgeted instead of what happened
This may not be standard, though, because only the first examined or use one. I was not given a pre
like you described in either case. However, they did tell me all six of the questions in advance.
And which is like a protest. I guess he didn't have to answer them.
The polygraph asked him to make sure he understood all of the six questions. The first summit
Are there lights on in the room and in both cases there were questions like
You worried, I will ask a we did not go over, then I got different first.
The same question, for example, did you see a man, a blue jacket, for
Was a man wearing a blue jacket at the scene after the court
we're gonna get a break from the machine. Then I got all the quest.
Again in a different order, followed by another break and another round of the same questions asking each question.
In a different way, multiple times, was apparently to reduce the possibility of reporting the false reading, but it did not as a couple of heavy things guys for them
the first examiner had me close my eyes, so that the readings would be guaranteed the in response to questions the second guided.
Ask me to do so, and when I asked
Why should he said it didn't matter?
You also mentioned techniques referring polygraph according to a sign in the waiting room he set. Niecks can actually calls false positives more than false negatives, those probably by a source. Although sciences. Yes, I shall ask you to keep your feet flat on the ground
I said he tat trick. Wouldn t possible, that is for math. You and Matthew says I by the way, and one of the few listeners should be thrilled if you included tribal drums in the background of your episodes, oh yeah, with few reading, Mr Male throughout the whole time. Yes, this combined with the track of us. Nothing says that wise were hearing this right now. Weird, I have noticed it interesting pointed at start. Weird is ok will thank you Matthew. Also. We want to thank our house band.
We'll drummers and will, I think, are producer Jerry for sending to urge everyone. I've had a moment says step if you
However, any info about a cool little piece, a history there may be overlooked. We want
about it and we made progress about it, and we may even be courteous enough to give you credit for bringing up yeah. You can treat it to us follow if we'd have to be pretty short. His horse has progressed fight if you want it as my escape podcast or on Facebook at Facebook that complex that we should now. We also have a couple of spoken word albums up on Itunes and urge that we should know Super sub guide, still cost you put their worth it and you can read it.
By email, tough, attract stuff podcast. It has the force that can be sure to check out our new video podcast stuff from the future. Joint housework staff
We explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow brought you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camry. It's ready are you. We are living in complicated times, I'm seventy rule, MSNBC Anchor and any
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Transcript generated on 2020-01-18.