With the development of increasingly smart artificial intelligence and lots more cameras spread around than ever before, we have reached a critical point in the US and other countries where governments can easily track everyone, everywhere, all the time.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This podcast dynamically inserts audio advertisements of varying lengths for each download.
As a result, the transcription time indexes may be inaccurate.
Hey. Everybody wants to talk to you about our old friends from square space. He needed
website, everyone, it's like the future
and if you don't have your own website, then what are you doing in square space? Is the best
they do it. It's the all in one platform to build a
beautiful online presence and run your butt
and right now we when they have a new feature, email campaigns, say
war and sell more with square space. Email campaigns is really great
again the all one platform that makes it easy to unify
or brand and voice from your
page to your emails,
de great everyone and right now check out square space, dot com, slash short stuff
for a free trial when you're ready launches the offer code short stuff to save ten percent of your first purchase of a website or domain
everybody, it's me josh- and I M here to tell you it's official we're going to be.
In Vancouver BC and Portland Oregon this March, a March Twenty ninth will be at the chance
in vain Coover in March, Thirtieth will be at the Arlene Schnitzel Concert Hall in Portland. So come see us tickets go on sale. This Friday go to s why s k, live dot com,
four ticket links and info and everything you need we'll see you guys in March,
Welcome to step you should now production of Iheart radios have stuff works, walk into the bargain Josh Clark theirs
Jerry, Matthew, Roderick mortgaging tends to establish good. What's your name change, ok, Josh, OECD in WAR Games Clark. I know airing coopers doing right now, man, how cute wish in that movie, like, I think they design that movie for, like every thirteen year old boy in America to fall in love with OECD wrong. I think you're talking about
Tom Short Circuit. I never saw that we let. Why would Johnny five? I mean another moment. You gotta see it really it's pretty awful, especially with them. I what's his name. Who is this sleaze ball from first Times average, my high, who is the ticket scalper Damone yeah yeah he play
is a indian, like asian indian character, like full on brown face and everything
bad the movies, bad enough
but then now, when you go back and see that to your life, I can't believe this. I can't believe it think he's a tellin ya easily, maybe jewish or maybe just a straight up like I am definitely not asian indian but anyway go see short circuit yoga suit. You think alleys shady just keep looking at the camera going Hesba get though she didn't even be sorry about so
guess, war games is kind of a new you're, we'll house up. Yet there was a little old for me here, because I saw that when I was like twelve issue and you have been to know how much younger you sort of seven seven, he added to low young for war games. I would thank the Minister watch your wherever bows like yeah, that's hilariously, computers.
Call whopper yeah? I mean it was right in my wheels right. I remember at the end of war games they lock in the another decoding the the code, one.
Number in letter at a time very suspense and yet very suspense when it finally locks in
me and my friends memorized it. So we can go home and plug it into an apple too hard to see what happens will happen. Nothing
actually a plug in a number anyway. What is even mean oh yeah yeah,
the very rudimentary program you can run where you kid type in like four lines of whatever on an even if you call it code and with the phrase, and it would run the phrase like a thousand times all of your screen and a big squirrel
and then I just thought that was acoustic. However, I feel it. I remember what you're talking just like five lines as likes at the only party remembers: twenty go to ten and ten was of the phrase I thank ready set. Something like I remember like me. I was ass. Black ass, it opens
that was a good one in Oregon trail I'd ever. It is what else castle orphans time, but like Wolf, design on the pc,
yea. I move left arrow right. Arrow shoot shoot dash near that which has some sort of a bullet, the one that was fun, and I thought it was just like the height of technological gaming. Air was, it was at the time, but now chuck we reach.
The height of technology, which is being track everywhere. You go, get you all the time by
Whoever wants to do that. I'm gonna change your name to judge smooth operator color her that transition very nice. The egg like AL, Rashid Clark, Josh, OECD War, Games
This is a good one. Did you put this together with us? You, and this is the
room, diversion good stuff in high Dave. We finally got to meet Dave and his family lovely family, that we cursed awfully in front of him in Seattle, felt terrible thanks for adding yourself to the men and he was like Marianna. Whenever he was fine, his kids were adorable, they were, there were great, they couldn't look at me, though there really here they were probably just intimidate by your president- knows- has a curse at sunset, and so this is good stuff, though facial
recognition technology that they been kind of at since the nineteen fifties which they rolled out as a test in two thousand to the Superbowl and not once did not go that well now it was a little clunky back then, but it's gotten a lot better. Since then
Let me explain why, for anyone who listen to the end of the world with Josh Clark, the a I episode in particular now everything associated with artificial intelligence got way better sorting round two thousand seven: when neural nets became a viable form, a machine learning, because you don't have to train a computer, what constitutes a human face and what to look?
for you just feed it a bunch of pictures of faces and say these are human faces, learn what a human faces and they train themselves and so run about two
doesn't seven, two thousand and eight slash two thousand and nine everything that had to do with machine learning got way smarter because we started using neural net and facial recognition.
Software is no exception and there were a few things that kind of converged all at the same time around the same time social needs
Can it coming on the scene right in that we'll house was a big deal facebook? This is staggering facebook, just by itself processes. Three hundred and fifty million new photos through its facial recognition software every day a day and every time one comes.
Through Mark Zuckerberg. More, like you think, is neat when you go. When you put a picture up and says I would you like to tag Emily, your wife, because that's her anything over that super, easy thanks, Facebook, but then you don't think like wait a minute. They know that's my wife, oh yeah, then Vienna, it's like with everything else,
there's privacy, people that were like won't, you guys realized, was going on and then the ninety nine percent of the sheep there. I ha no they're like no
great, like I'll, have you gotta go in and make the click to links or to button the of the tax out in ways you're so there
was one thing. There is way more fun
those out their fiddler. Those machines to learn on yellow, good highquality photos right
three hundred and fifty million a day just on Facebook alone, but which means the machines were getting smarter,
we're getting better and better at a training themselves, and then, lastly, that has led to a ubiquity in in facial recognition that the better the machines have gotten the easier it has been to put together. Data sets for them to train on lots and lots of pictures of people
cheaper. The technologies gotten, which means the more people that are now using facial recognition than ever
Amazon has a service called recognition with a k which is not a good look, no looks
Reed German there's something without actually we're wasting at sea with the k, shoots, thoughtful and it just looks creepy like when you spell America with a k here it. It means something it means like bad America ICE Cube, yet they were
right, full steam ahead and called it recognition with a gay, you had to say
they do it and you have to be like squeezing
air out of a syringe while you're saying it too. So they have this. I didn't even know about this, but its ubiquitous and it's not super expensive, and that means that that won't Foresman ages scenes agencies. They don't have to like create their own. They can to say of sign up for recognition right exactly because it's there and because its its relatively cheap, you can just get a subscription, not just long Foresman agencies. If you have a photo
sharing, app or whatever, and you want some facial recognition technology you just contract with with Amazon and Amazon goes here. You go hears our data and you
in like our code and you can put it on dear platform. Anybody can use it, so it is kind of everywhere, and that makes a lot of people, including me very, very nervous because as the sky Woodrow Herzog, if he's not Verna Herzog brother
I'll, be disappointed. Others let hurts ox, but a Woodrow, no Werner come on. Maybe you know anyway, Woodrow Herzog. As a professor of computer science and I believe, privacy, civil liberty, he basically says look, there is no way we're going to reap the benefits of facial recognition without ultimately sliding irreversibly into a disco, paean surveillance state where it's happening right now, and if we don't do something about it, it's never going to change back we're about to fully give up our privacy, because it's one thing to have your phone tracked right. You give up your thumb gear self burner phone like your Jesse, pink bent or something like that, and they just throw their fun away. You can't be tracked him more. You can't get a burner face,
and if that does become a thing down the line it'll be very, very expensive, so that every person can't get a bird face will be tracked by our face everywhere we go on as we have more and more cameras and lists technology becomes cheaper and cheaper
it will be living in a world where there will be zero privacy,
be monitored and track, because it will be so easy, so it will be sold to us like its being sold to us. Now. That's like every at its a law enforcement tool to get the bad guys that right, but this eventually going to it
Then you include everybody. But what do you have to worry about your in abstaining citizen? It doesn't matter. If your tracked, that's not true that Russia is not the case, everybody! It's not the case. I we're gonna, call that so so box soliloquy number one of what I guarantee will be probably three or four
Ok, let's talk of a little bit about how it works. It is Biometrics authentication, it's like a fingerprint retina scan and basically what it does is there. It is precise measurements of a face to calculate every person's, very unique visual geometry like how far park your eyes are sure how far part pupils are from your nostrils. Yet your facial geometry. How are your faces all set up? I think yards even gotten into things like facial hair, skin tone, skin
texture on yeah, I'm sure you'll get just more more specific yeah in them. The you know, because their giddings, the machines, are getting better and better and easier and easier to train. On the stuff you,
does add more more data to it and the chief they, the recognition, we'll just become increasingly good. Yet if you want to throw off a facial recognition, software in freak out every human you meet to shape your eyebrows, oh yeah, there will be little freaky. If you ever seen that you ve seen, I heard your movies and stuff. It's an interesting thing. Member kid and industrial arts clustered that one year is like
little Mina convert nitrate burn out into shut up when they have no eyebrows. Her, you should think like not having a nose would be more easily accepted sure, there's something just uncanny when someone shapes their eyebrows like one day to have on the net,
it wasn't like immediately recognisable what
thing was or was it like now, there's something ten off today that, whereas, if you you know
came in the next day without a nose, the first thing to say is what happened: you're, not what happened to your nose, Todd and try to be like at rid of it. I fell off so those measurements. We were talking about what happens in as they compared that, just like a fingerprint,
the database of images and depending on what this is for, could be like just within your company or it could be the FBI's database of mugshots earned. It could be deemed these database of drivers licence photos, yeah, which will get into
yeah. What's interesting as each stage the way, there's a different algorithm that does you know each increasingly sophisticated step,
until you finally have basically like all of the different data points. For that the know what makes up that facial geometry and then you can compare it to all the other data points we think of. Like a computer running like a
You know a picture. You ve got your input picture right and I'm running you know all the pictures next to it this now, it's doing it out
running the numbers, basically stewing computer stuff, yell of that first step, which is he had to teach the computer, what a faces yeah. So to me it seems silly, but of course that's what it is well yet because of me, if you showed a picture of,
a person standing next to fire, hydrants ethic assuming under fire idea and say hello handsome. So this is what a human face looks like yeah or no that's a but yeah, and then it starts Yale. Closer closer are right. Now, that's a face. You'd know two faces right now: move on to step to witches, stop screwing around
yeah. So now you know two faces you gotta normalize it for the photo, which means there art and not that many while thus put it in a dockers. Normally, you icily
that face, and then you have to make sure that its normalized as far as looking at the camera. So if it is, we get a photo of a someone from up Cctv, let's say, and it's sort of a three quarter: they have the ability to make it as if it is looking straight at the other computer Kim pretty accurately predict what the rest of the face looks like face.
On. I guess face on maybe an eye when it normalizes it like. That makes it much easier compared to other pictures because, as will see, most of the pictures were most the data points that its comparing it too are taken from databases of pictures that have been taking of of people
face on right, said: that's why it wants to grow more get your driver's license. Yeah well despoiled, but yes, majority said there are we to the added I missed it
sorry, so it's from there. If you have more algorithm still that isolate parts of the face, then this is where my old theory that, like there are only so many facial combination. So that's why you have doppelgangers.
We are doing observed that Bulgaria, there's only so many things you can do with two eyes to eyebrows and those in a mouth and cheekbones right and gin while care. What else I mean, there's not a whole lot. Theirs
lips sure what about Tibet it? These are call eleven, the ridges between your eyebrows. Well, if you wanna get super
the civic. But that's what I say I think they're getting more more specific, oh yeah yeah, but my hope winters in will learn in here and facial recognition. They they do used awful gangsters yeah, but.
And so they recognise all these features and then each feature becomes what's called a notice point or no doubt point, I think noto noto. I think- and this is where you gonna- get your super exact angles and distances between all these parts as a flat, two dimensional thing, which my question was because below here you know, talks about apple and their Iphone have have authority. Facial recognition is that is two dimensional
the period to three d. I don't know where is it just because that's what all the pictures are in the databases? So that's what they do. I don't know. All I know is my phone usually unlocks. When I look at you know it. I hate is having to take off my sunglasses. I not worst so I found a got some way fares that I do
have to take long, but my aviators, I do have to take off interesting. Do they keep trying
Make you into massive
have on the mediators near her work, but is that that was Tom, cruise laughing and chewing gum while things I feel good, ok, we!
We I keep going says about to take a break unnecessarily. So when
then when the computers running through the pictures, it decision goes like no, no, no, no, no millions and millions of times and finally Gus yes, but when it says yes in its spits out another picture. It's not like this is that person now and you wanted
be because we all watch and see I as we all. What's. Yes,
We all watch out.
Law and order. I don't we all white thumb
party down. I do any Griffith like
all they got their Matlock now the whole should make it so we wanted to spit omby like here's, your here's, your your person of interest rate, but words really doing is its producing a similarity score. That is probabilistic. It saying this is there's this percent chance that this is the same person is the picture for the person in the picture that you upload. It gets a bit of a guess. It is so a sufficiently
I guess it is in the better computers get at this. The third likelier it is that if they say this is a is ninety nine percent chances in person that it's the same person right, but it was, will see it's up to the house.
In user, to determine what is an acceptable right threshold of confidence. Is it fifty percent? Now is a seventy five percent now, frankly, really should be about ninety nine percent are higher, should be the confidence setting
in writing for the confidence. I did that what the Amazon's recognition says the threshold should be air. I'm glad you said that men, because it really is creep,
and I can put my finger on it in its exactly- I mean I knew that
Looked weirder whatever by hadn't, hit me that two so creepy. It is just how off the mark or potentially on the mark. That name is like Hulu like if my name is spelled C h, UK, I'm sinister I'll bet, you be more sinister. I dont think you could ever be. Truly sinister can appreciate that are at least take a break, undergo work on sinister ring up a bit and we'll talk a little.
More about some of the uses of f are ready for this,
We want to tell you about the Subaru love promise that right we
have a super outback. Emily does, and we had to these now and now we love the company even more because of the Subaru LE promise. So Subaru has made a commitment by the company and its retailers to do
right by the communities that we all live in and work in and play in Dr Supervision, since two thousand fifteen Subaru its retailers and they leukemia and lymphoma. Society have delivered craft kits and blankets to more than one hundred thousand patients across a nation. Yeah. That's right! In this past year,
more than forty three thousand blankets in over ninety five hundred kids were delivered to patients, along with messages of hope, which is pretty nice. It's great to learn more about how Subaru gives back visit Subaru Dotcom, Slash, love, dash, promise. That is s you be a R. U dotcom, Slash lsd!
dutch p r. O am I s. E walk outside of Washington DC people like Donald Trump, and you have to register that reality. We realistically, what are the states trunk and look to incite Hillary Clinton one these spot? I could potentially bring as they are there any welcomes Macleod she's beyond the bubble, with most of the people a tempting to lead this party. Don't really understand I'll be right, but every week we taking inside the rates for the White House in the states that will matter most the result here, Charlotte Observer newsroom, where I am currently looking upon a breathtaking view, highways implore, you get a completely different view about Donald Trump strength, large back inside me. Unless it's been beautiful and of course it gives me bourbon Biden, Bernie, worn Buddha judge. Now you ve got this global our fact
one of them could be in fifth place. That's my death! Now we are in an entirely different political. Soon we will hear any post trump politically universe subscribed to beyond the bubble. Now, wherever you get your pockets so as without technology has to be abbreviated into two letters with the slogan of workers are, do they call it effort I've seen LUCA? Is a house just being silly, but then spread me nope, so, in afar, facial recognition technology there are. There are some some beneficial uses for it. Like we said, young got, attacked, people said ill, ghoul chief among them the first people like you and me, that's the pinnacle as it stands here, you don't have to tag p,
yourself. Facebook does it for you. Yes, that's what we're trading everything for. I had come there look at, but there are some other really genuinely beneficial uses to there's a nonprofit company called thorn that scans missing persons, pictures against pictures of children and child porn videos or suspected human trafficking. It is to get matches and apparently they rescued a hundred kids. So far from using that technology.
There is a pretty beneficial use, a facial recognition, software dating apps. Let us say you want to you, get pretty specific on what kind of face you find attractive, which is interesting, but
can say. I really think I like guys with high cheek bones in but
Oh, you would go find my lips you, it would be more like em somebody could be like. Oh, I really find christian bail attractive and they get a picture of criteria in his dating at
and I would come up, but I wouldn't because I wouldn't be in the dating at because I'm happily married, you think you look like christian bill. I'm told that alot really yeah. That's why? I don't think you look anything like I don't either, but people sexting- I am, I don't know what I would do if I was dating now. I guess I would just go to its service and say:
the OECD type, a chair for more games era, but they be like. Ok, sir, you would just upload the picture.
I come into the office which is really not even open to the public. The dangerous tell us you're interested in an alley, shady type like a weird you mean dating
don't have offices where they d field, complaints and interested parties
sit down and they had a videotape. You with the vhf, however, put you on with someone
guys on a tape, that's how they used to do our. Yes, that was one of the sub plots of singles. The camera grow movie, oh yeah, it was expect the best was the name. The dating service in you would make a video tapes and, like a watch
oh deeps, of people Nino saying who they are. How do you remember that I was a big single span? A bunch gets, you expect
first, you me Peggy cigarettes in some coffee. We need anything else gets into
So what else here this was Taylor Swift and an her security team on tour used it to scan the audience to see if any of the creep
who have harassed and stopped her were in the audience near that super beneficial shirt. No one should have to go through that also cops use. It
myriad ways, but in particular, especially beneficial or when they use facial recognition to identify people who can identify themselves
yeah this interesting somebody in the midst of a psychotic break. Perhaps somebody wasted
Shhh rooms. Somebody, sir you're, not Jesus, corrects a who, who is of amnesia yeah like our from Benjamin Kyle, who apparently knows who is now but he's decided not to disclose it publicly you're the guy he was found behind a burger king, near dumpster heads
zero, recollection of whom he was her, how he got there. Remember them like there is this international publicity publicity
in like who wasn't that he couldn't remember who he was, and somebody finally came,
Lord and identify them. So now he knows who
he was, but he went like a decade without knowing
away. When I said sir you're, not Jesus Christ, I was making fun of the guy mushrooms, not someone in the midst of a psychotic break. Oh, I see swampy very specific. I think I was very clear make sure by knows that, so those are some of the good ways that it can
he used the Dallas talk about all the bad ways. Here I mean when you're talking about the government you telling that law enforcement when you're talking about things like
going on allegedly in China, with Cctv everywhere train to
to single out ethnic minorities and religious groups just walking down the street going up
their day right being random yeah. That's it gets into much different territory than tagging people and dating upsides, pretty difficult to attend your religious service. If you're not allowed to retain a tenure religious service in your being tracked everywhere, you go yeah, that's why places like- and this is the most predictable thing
the World San Francisco Oakland in Berkeley and then Somerville main. Neither Maynard's would be in there to their night into this, live free or die
They have banned law enforcement from using facial recognition altogether and California as a state and
as put a three year moratorium on the use of it body cams or it's a big one,
acl. You is basically and others jumping ahead, but there the point where there like we needed tap the brakes here for a few years and like cause no legislation about this. Yet when it's just go and full seamen,
yeah? I really I don't want to like bike run past that there is a side from Berkeley San Francisco who's, the other one Oakland Oakland and Somerville
There are no laws, state, local or federal, governing the use of facial recognition technology by law enforcement.
Yet it is happening very fast. Whatever they want to do what they can do in some cases they do all sorts of stuff with it. They,
will use it like God, and why PD very famously used, or you talk about with double game.
As there is a guy who is caught stealing beer at sea vs is amazing nanny.
Dwayne read a severe and they said with this,
looks a lot like Woody Harrelson. We now have a good. We now have a good shot of them to use inefficient working,
when you we do have is lots of great picks up woody heroes, and so they went
gotta pick of woody arrows in and there they came up with the match and they
think it was the guy on video and Cv S answer
The Georgetown School of LAW produced a study called garbage and garbage out, and they were basically like. That's not okay. You really shouldn't be doing that.
But that's the level of legality as it stands right now. There's it's just open season and I'll do it
basically whatever you want to do, you can do as far as facial recognition is concerned. In that story, in particular its like some people like awesome, the system works or other
boy like what about poor Woody Harrelson. He was really in danger right, then, of being
located in this beer stealing scheme from severe in what he said. What did I love that guy added to man true detective, the first season? First for episodes just them.
That's called that using a probe photo when you use. When you say hey that looks like someone. They also do the same with one of the New York Knicks. Apparently I could not for life and we find out who yeah
filling in learning protected or something may no one said who was a couple, a numbers,
though the FBI receives about fifty thousand facial recognition search submissions a month, yeah for their database. So that's the other thing
if you dont have even the money for a subscription Amazon recognition,
Are you don't have an I person whose capable of assembling and putting it
are using it and you can just submit these requests to the FBI here. So there's a lot of
four avenues. You could take his law enforcement to two to use facial recognition, technology to catch suspected criminals. There has been a bad guys, but who knows, as will see-
That's not the case here, so here's some more numbers, though, because
It can only be regulated, but when it works, it really works
really does those a thing here. There was one department where they set at lower the average time required for an officer to identify a subject from an image from thirty days to three minutes which Canada brings home. The point there's another number in here this interesting but seventeen it it brings home. The point that like this is something that human policemen were doing, officers were doing with your eyeballs by flipping through books. Yes, for thirty days straight saying, like did look like this person than this is like a chance.
Really speed up the process and to spend more time in theory, catch and bad guys. Yes, I am arguing for them to saying they were
this anyway, just through manpower right, I think the thing is is
anytime, you, an artificial intelligence, automatically makes the user of the artificial intelligence aside unfair unfairly advantaged. It's not like the criminals
able to use a I to steal beer from sea vs more effectively. But the cops are
using. I did catch them stealing beer more effectively and is kind of like. Yes, it makes sense to catch like child pornographers and human
Africa Ray and rapists, and murderers and violent criminals with this stuff. But using that kind take on kissed somebody still beer from a city s feet, that's when it starts to feel like
What kind of society are we moving toward? You know? Well,
someone I do not harm. Let me keep going here, forsaking cause. I don't want, you will be like what are you in favour? The guy stealing beer from CBS does not, I think, you're scumbag, if you still beer from sea vs, but I also think that it's over kill the use, facial recognition, technology to catch, that person, use old fashioned police tactics.
Or don't catch him. Yes, I have no time to the fairness of the West in New York City. I think I might be on the other side, because I dont think we need to set a fair play and ground between criminals and cops in saying, like it's unfair, that cops can use this stuff and criminals urge stout they're not able to use these same techniques. Ok,
so might the fairness thing, it doesn't just end at the law order thing right like it like it's, not just with cops using it that they have this huge advantage. I totally get how people be like no give the cops that huge Van
I don't have an issue with that. In of itself, I think my issue comes a step
two down the road sure where the government or the cops
thing on behalf of the government, use that against everyday citizens who have no recourse whatsoever right that that that that law?
sightedness that so evident when you're using a I catch, somebody stealing beer from the sea vs it
really easy to kind of, follow that a little further across to the horizon and see just how unfair life could be and how oppressive that could be using that technology. I think that, ultimately, what I'm saying I hopefully Doug myself out at all, but now so in this gets into some of the controversies and the arguments if you're, if you're sick
any mugshots fur rapists and arsonists and murderers and violent criminals and your catching people,
find a lot of people that say well, that's not fair. Go back in use, take a month to look through a mug shot book instead and waste a bunch of time and dont be efficient, so I think most people would
If you look in a mug shots, although we should point out that a much I mean it just means your arrest,
that doesn't mean you were guilty of anything right. So there were plenty of opportunities for false positives and people being put in jail. That shouldn't be right, but but there is now a lot of people who are like no don't use mugshots
debases right exactly if you're scanning driver's license databases or other just general public databases. That's gonna get super tricky because we can avoid the fact
what that means is and in the centre on privacy and technology can have stated very plainly. What that means is every one is in a perpetual lineup. Essentially right, if you have a driver's lies,
you're part of a police lineup. What yeah, whether you like it or not. What are you know it or not? And if that computer says here's the guy, it's chug Bryant
they will say. Oh he does not strike me as very sinister in the computer, be like trust me. This is the guy with I get eighty something per cent confidence interval chuck suddenly you're going to give visited
the cops and may be leaving get arrested because you a little cagey when they talk to you and you set off their cop radar. Whatever right
The next thing. You know you're in court being charged to the crime that using commit cause a computer implicated. You right in the cops thought that you are acting cagey and lets say that you are.
A very, very poor person in Europe, have any money to mount a decent defence. The best you can afford is a free public defender who has fifty other cases
I really paying very much attention to you and you
jail now because you got convicted wrongly because you were put in a line up just because you had to drivers life,
yeah, I think for me- and this is total my privilege coming through as well. I want to see some numbers, and
if one of every ten thousand arrest and conviction of a real criminal or in a rapist in a murder and there's three people that get falsely identified and have to go through the system and may or may not be acquitted. I'd want to see those numbers. But again that's coming from a privileged position is someone who could afford a legal defence who white yet exactly it's another one to the people of color, buried inordinate,
a disproportionate burden when it comes to facial recognition, technologies will see well, immunize will go and talk about that. Its, I think, from the big
even with social media, there were certain facial recognition, early facial recognition, technologies that
mitted like we're, not as good as seeing recognising faces with darker skin is just not that good
Yeah, I think something like darker: skin men and women were recognised, twelve percent and thirty thirty five percent were misidentified compared to one percent and seven percent of white skinned men and women, and they say it's because of the data sets that these machines have been trained on, which is not.
Raise its, not purposefully, but it makes sense if you live in, like a generally like, like the white.
For empower and it's like whitenesses, the most celebrated part of the society or whatever. That's where you gonna have more pictures of, and when you feed it, just a bunch of picture.
This from your society into a machine and say learn what faces? Are it's gonna? Go? Oh white men. I gotcha! Well,
it is our more white people numbers wise shareholder value, something to do with it right. Yes, it's really. That is an excellent point as well for sure, but the fact of the matter is
the data sets that the machines are learning on are largely white and largely mail, and so it they're just nod is good at recognising the differences in faces among people who are white male here, less read these quotes. There's a couple. A good quotes here. The first one is from Woodrow heart. Zog is gonna, be
it is Verna again, I should get nowhere near. He does a good burner area. The most uniquely dangerous surveillance mechanism ever intended is an irresistible tool for oppression, that's perfectly suited for governments to display unprecedented authoritarian team, I'm sorry, authoritarian control and an all out privacy, eviscerated machine,
does the line I just realized. It's hard saw so has its spelled differently. It's all. J R T hurts August is eighty hours, Z, Oji.
I am glad that we didn't feel beforehand.
Take the other, and I also I have to say, as the protected a hint of Michael Paine and thereby to ban all a bit. Sorry to get Michael came out of my sister
What's the other went out from Microsoft, president breads Mitya, so Bread Smith says,
When, combined with ubiquitous cameras and massive computing power and storage in the cloud, a government could use facial recognition technology to enable continuous surveillance of specific individuals like their supposedly doing in China, as it is
it could follow anyone anywhere or for that matter, everyone everywhere at any time or even all the time, and he wasn't this- wasn't sales pitch you speaking out against this Congress sing like guys. We gotta wished to do something about this, because this is the than the pathway heading down and that's why set Abramovich changed his name to Brad Psmith. It sounds like a total. Like me, read the like. I just want to blend in
so you ve got scanning against mugshots scanning gains, drivers, licences and then there's a new one that just came at the New York Times is released this expos a on January. Eighteen is a few days ago on a company called clear view. A I.
And apparently even among Silicon Valley. There has been this long
Standing kind of unspoken thing were: let's steer clear of this facial recognition technology because it's such a tool of oppression and
and clear view. I said: hey we're not from Silicon Valley, lawyers, we're gonna, do our own thing. So now those of his Ackerman there's this tool, that's available to law,
Foresman agencies that they're using remember that one that one guy who adequate saying that I'm it went from thirty days to three minutes. Yet they were almost
and lay using clear view. I will and the reason clear view. I has such an advantage because they ve gone to this place where everyone else said was off limits which is scraping social media.
So rather than the forty one million driver's license a mug shot pictures that is available in the FBI's D
basin clear view. A eyes is apt that you can subscribe to four year for like two thousand and ten thousand dollars, and they have three billion pictures, including my links to the social accounts of the people whose p
yours come up so that you can not only see who it is
find out where there are right, then right and it's a hugely invasive
thing and there's no legislation on this whatsoever. Here- and it's only just recently come out this- this company even exists or that the sap exists in that law enforcement is using this
because again there is basically no laws saying you can't do this. You can't do that right and again. Woodrow Herzog has basically said.
There's no way we're going to realise the benefits of this without the incredibly disproportionate drawback right and he's a calls for an oil band of the technology is basically saying it's not worth it. I was sick, another break, oh my gosh. We can take our second break yet nope, ok and we'll be right back to talk about
the rest of the stuff tat after this.
I think we should talk a little bit like we talked about the false positives and I think, within Amazon, their contention
Is that what you're talking about with, like these studies out of MIT? That said that there are too many false positive? Is he's there saying
make your talking about facial analysis, not facial recognition and those are two different things. I
not understand this at all? I went looked it up and I didn't fully get it either. There's it sounds like some tap dancing the me I looked at
like not a distinction between those two aside from in this quote, really is basically the same thing and also it
then even makes sense as a defence. So basically, what they're saying is that that they were being called out
MIT media lab. They did it. Two thousand eighteen study, that's the one that found that others are
twelve in thirty five percent misidentification em right darker skin,
men and women like women, I think yeah. Yet an m
As I don't know,
guys are using facial analysis. Not facial recognition is, I know it's. It's not the case at all.
Doing facial recognition. I M glad I would just make. As you see I wrote, I dont get it next to this. It was. It was a bad, a bad jam. I guess, but I think they're point one.
Well you're, trying to tell the gender of somebody and, if you're, doing fine,
Mary gender stuff, like China
This is male or female right. You can't really use facial recognition for that, especially among darker skin people catcher, and they said that you shouldn't use out, especially in cases of people, civil liberties or whatever, but it still remains the case that if you are a darker skin person and you're being looked at by police department that has their threshold for confidence level set low yeah,
there's a chance that a false positive is going right, foot out their right and that's that can be trouble for you. If you don't have the money to mount and defend in any event, if you
have the money you shouldn't matter mounted defensive, spend money,
on that to be acquitted of crimes is because it is not so good at it distinguishing black people. Yet it is among white people yet in which you know when it comes to where this is going to end up with
really. You might want to look at the fourth amendment. It gets really dicey on how you interpret the constitution when you talk about illegal search and seizure. Is this a search or a seizure? Probably not
because it depends on what we're talking about with the Supreme Court. You probably been stopped in a letter to you, I check point and that stopping everybody that's right. The same thing it's like if you're in a car, we're gonna, stop you in check you out, because the public that the public, the public his said, you know, that's, ok, it's reasonable. It's not super invasive and if you're stopping drunk drivers is just putting someone out for a few minutes, he had the court said if its men
the invasive and the public good or the potential for public good, which is in this case right getting drunk drivers off the road is high enough. Then it's it's ok to basically search everybody without probable cause, yes, aim with tee essay checkpoints.
When it comes to official rulings, obviously don't have one in facial recognition yet. But if you look at Carpenter be United States, the court ruled five for that police violated.
Fourth, amendment rights of a man when they asked for his cell phone location data without a warrant from T Mobile right. So hopefully, this nuance will prevail and it just won't. It looks like it probably won't be some blanket ruling the justice yep. You can use it for whatever you want right if it even gets,
that point, and if the court hears it, we're probably would so. The other thing that that is is has become worrisome for people, though, is there its becoming m. Our society is becoming increasingly surveillance right, like ring the ring, doorbell sure they market to law enforcement. Basically saying like you, can you can these people
I will pay to have video cameras put on their house and you can go get these videos and neighbourhood rate is all the time you like my car get broken into. Who can help me out with her came right so as being marketed along Foresman, your tea,
He has a camera that you're smart speaker as a microphone and it so the more that we are surveilled and the more ubiquitous facial recognition technology gets the easier it will to not just scan a picture of somebody. Stealing beard of sea vs IE
against a mug shot database. Her driver here they re, but to say this person right here that you're you're. Looking at the cameras following that's this, that's that some that said,
that's chuck. Brian right there, in everywhere you walk through
a little icon. Next, your head Chuck Bryant, you know if you click it I'll show you your facebook page or a map of
your house or whatever they want to know your police record? It is a matter, and this is what were were increasingly getting closer to you, and some people say this is what they are already doing in China, yeah and London, his as they were one of the first on the Cctv train. Yes, but they use human right, which is fair right.
I was for recognising basis yeah. They have people like actually looking area at dividend.
Your monitors, looking for crime. This is this is the idea of this. Is it's a tracking people who just doing nothing wrong here
But there are plenty of people on the other side, we should point out that our, like you know at if you're catch him bad guys, that's great. If you're, a good guy got nothin to hide solutions,
yeah, I can never remember the name of the article I'll try to find it, but there's a man. I wish I could remember tat my habit. There's there's this
amazing article from a few years back that that basically says like that's, that's a terrible argument that that, even if you have nothing to hide you still
or a human being, and if somebody I haven't, I didn't put to get here and but if somebody wanted to put together like a dossier on you're, embarrassing things at you,
on or sad or thought or whatever, and in put it all together in condensed it you can make anybody look bad. No one should one!
live in a situation where, like that, could conceivably happen and that a police state, yeah police state their good stuff. I guess what european us out, I'm not saying please, therefore, as good stuff police states could stuff,
yeah. I will see what happens right him Woodrow Herzog, and let us know what to do.
If you want to know more about facial recognition technology you,
Can I go on the internet so readings of about a definite.
We read the New York Times exposure about clear view. I came out January. Eighteen guess forget possess it s time for this
no! It's not. You know it is time for oh yeah. I know it's time for you ready, yet you say it's time for,
Administrative DE alright. This is part to this is where we think people on the show that have sent us kindnesses the snail mail city. As idea since set me, some handed it
sucks, not you for some reason. I don't know why. I got some socks too really yeah, I didn't know who they were from, so they may be from siggy. I think probably what it was as you left him with my desk and okay, and I thank you for it
do another one one. Poland on my list, my acting Julie, Shoop made us tee shirts shoop. This is good
foe, ban, name, tour, shirts, Superfund thanks largely miracle you're, still working second, keep going Folliot does as our power from Australia set my daughter cut.
Books she's, a very lovely lady who has a very adorable and whip smart daughter about the same age who listens to our show, and I was just like manner which she looked here. We could go and played a here. They both seem like Lobo humans. There such things planes.
Good. Australia replace eight, so at our Portland main showed Chuck. We had like a lot of fun. Gotta lotta need gifts, Jim deepen Bachar made us amazing. Cross hatch, portraits, oh your answer, but there was a great of us like a photo. We took, I think, friendlier West Coast tour frontiers and fifteen hill. It brought back memories. Yes, on its is really great stuff. You can see Jim's work at Jim, deepen, Bachar DOT, com, J, AI, empty. I e F, F B, I see each dot com and they were framed in everything very sweet stuff. Jim. We get some home tapped, maple syrup from Andy Hunts, burger from Elgin. I a ok what I said. I will yeah, ok whose, but this said the wrong state. Where are you going to say? I think I want to say Illinois heresy.
Governments bid on it that abbreviating states did just look it up. One of the great comedy bits of ever seeing its hysterical c o another at the Portland show. We got a letter from told Braun from Downeys Data from Boyd Bron told, brought up and down his day boats missions to breathe
Annabelle Delicious Scallops from Maine to the world, and she said that scallops have varietals like oysters, and that mean has the best so check out down east they boat, dot, com and scallops. Hope Braun feel free to send us some scallops as long as they ve been appropriate.
Who did the entire? Yes again, other children spoke. Are you a good egg nets? For my Peter Joyful, along with some stuff, you should know customers yeah yeah thanks again Peter. I think we thank them. Last of coastal areas
no about children, Sarah LAW, who is
Kay Army member. She came to the Toronto, showing she bought a bunch of canadian goodies, everything from Japanese, she's, cakes and tarts from tattoos,
so good, and I think some other stuff too, like coffee crisps, which are my favorite. Yes, a thinks of that terrorism. Has everything from Japan awesome
It is this really get the day. They don't necessarily invent much. They just take other people's inventions and perfect in Vienna seems like they take a lot of pride and like doing things right. Yes, I think you could say that, probably here, because we got format an assortment of food things from Japan that came in today, including
our beloved Kubi man. Is I love this of it's been too long. Thank them! Man! God bless you
see. Leah Harrison gave us some amazing goodies too, including coffee, Crispin, canadian smarties, which are
better than american smarties. His aim of chocolate Super Smartest
the student, Maria styling wrote us a letter for an honours english projects because she had to write some one who inspired her and she asked this. I told her we'd answer: how do we choose a topic? Maria? We choose a topic. It's not
pretty low fi. We just send each other one each week on whatever happens, to grab fancy row
looking around our world in thinking wonder about that matters. That is easy to get some medicine
to their an email and ninety nine times out of a hundred will say great us: do you see
Oh Michael see Learner whose an attorney line Reno sent us a letter
about getting the word out about the national Consumer LAW centre, for which
does a lot of pro bono work for people who are poor and getting screwed over because of debt, as he put it. So he pointed to the National Consumer LAW center in the practicing law institute. Consumer financial services answer book, so if you are in debt and you're, getting pushed around
this means that says, Michael's good stuff. In austrian, we gotta think him again or body from Washington sent us.
A book by his friend, any Robins called field guide to the north american Jackal ass. Pretty ass gets very fine, Paul S Beth.
From Mars Community Brewing Company in Chicago gives a bunch of beard. The Chicago show. Thank you for that
I got one more okay, I'll go and finish up. Then you can round us out man. I have a whole page right. Robert I'm,
and from WHAM. Oh, this is just came in today. He works for ammo. He sent us each their seventh anniversary Superbowl. Oh, I think philosophy has talk. A lot about women products is abounds. I've not drafted on the floor
find out over the dry. I made you a couple more and then woman who spoke these cause there for both of us another upset it's up to you. He can play served to knowledge to many. So let's see
The crown royal people again for hook in us up very sweet. They serve to sup many many times and they gave us a nice congratulations because we get the best. Curiosity. A word from the Iheart Podcast, avoid last year saw this when Mixed Sullivan gave us a copy of his book. The meat shower, which is amazingly illustrated you can check it out on the past, curious nature,
sounds really really. Does it see an all round everything our Daniel Dixon, who is a real life? Marine biologist, Chuck the year received Delaware and she sent us a couple of copies of four kids book, see stories, children's books based on real science. You can check it out it s, a S tee, o r. Why books dot com? You can save the rest.
To save their us was blown up thanks. Everybody who sent us stuff in- and thank you also just for saying, hi to anyone,
does you can say hi to us by sending us an email, rapid up spent on the bottoms in adopting stuff pug
I heard radio doctor
study should know is pretty
I heard radios how stuff works for more outcasts, my heart, radio
that I heard radio apathy
wherever you listen to your favorite share capital. One has a fresh. Take on banking
Now you can open a new savings account at about five minutes and earn five times the national average banking with capital. One means five times a savings towards your dream, honeymoon or five times a savings toward your family's ultimate vacation even five times a savings toward just feel good about saving. It's time you make your savings goals come true. This is banking re imagined. What's in your wallet capital, one in a member empty, I see
Transcript generated on 2020-02-18.