« Stuff You Should Know

How Kleptomania Works

2009-12-17 | 🔗

In this episode of Stuff You Should Know, Josh and Chuck discuss kleptomania, a disorder in which people have an overwhelming impulse to steal unnecessary items.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Hey folks, available now from Iheart a new series presented by T Mobile for business, the restless ones join host Jonathan Strickland, as he explores he coming technological revolution with E restless, business leaders who stand right on the cutting edge. They know is a better way to get things done and they are ready, curious and excited for the next technological innovation to unlock their vision of the future in. Each episode will learn more from the restless ones themselves and I've deep into how the five g revolution could enable their teams to thrive the restless one is now available on the eye heart radio up or wherever you listen, podcast brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camry. It's ready are. You welcome to stop. You should know from house to work started a look into the park, Testa Josh Clark, the shock, the chuck. The chuck is on fire
Are you doing to events in about this? Since yesterday we actually have not recorded in two weeks, and I have a feeling just been planning a week. I just told you I came up with a yesterday. I was listening and you're sweet voice, while I sweat floors in my house Like a you. Think of me, I thought like that. I thought it was your voice. It made me think of it, I thought. Maybe I've been opening at the show, pretty boring wise lately, while I'm glad you're talking about this now. Yeah anyway chuck how you doing good sir. There has been a long time has an ok, so warm you know it's stealing season body. Is it yeah it pretty much kicks off in November and really goes out through the roof? I now at black Friday,
much more difficult to steal their cyber Monday. But I see that comes around people love steel, people of the whole people up with guns, knives, threats of physical violence. That kind of thing, while this is inspiring yet it is. Actually, it turns out that this stealing season will probably be worse than usual, because there is a report released called the global retail theft barometer and tat. It was released in MID November couple weeks back the Gr Tb and the fan. I know you are, and it said that this year, businesses of loss, retail businesses and was two hundred and fifteen
billion dollars, were wide from stealing from theft. What what's America you have that forty five billion, while because in our article says ten billion ten billion, is like an average? So that's a huge angry. It is actually I'll tell you what usually the there. I guess, there's an increase every year and usually worldwide. It increases by about one point: five percent. I wonder if that in direct the cost of goods increasing, I thought that met that actually does has to do that. In the same article I read this year six percent increase worldwide and in America, North America there is an eight point. One percent increase, while so people are still left right and they were the authors of the study, the centre for retail research. Apparently toxic cops talk to shoplifters and said you know. What's going on, they talked a shoplifters has a dinner.
People who ve been busted for shop carefully meant that had not been caught lily. This hang around Macy's in her, like that, you look like a shoplifter use gospel or I saw it. You did, and I won't report you if you enter these financially exactly and give me a saw book. What is that a twenty two greek governments before thing to fibre occur so arm are now to ten. I bet we get some less real solidarity. There are five or ten such up where they found from talking you. These people is that there is an increase in the perception that companies are making off with all this money doing, while everybody else is having hard times and so that they can feel justified in steel, a gadget and their seeing of much a rise in the middle class is dealing people who can afford.
Stuff in just aren't paying rent. And apparently this of this victim was crime, that's kind of another perceptions. From a giant corporation in the United States, we paid in extra four hundred and thirty six bucks, a household in consumer goods prices yeah, that's what happens. Yeah same with credit card acid fraud was shrinkage along right. Yes, him credit card fraud, that's why I mean that. That's all why? But one reason why the interest rates are so sky high, because people sad is charging stuff, not pay it insurance fraud on its eyes, fino that stupid into that stupid credit card companies can take the hit then the, but they
although this should they build up their ticket here they pass it all. Of course they do. Networks were all slaves chuck suckers anyway. I somewhere in that those those statistics. I just dumb, you know, spewed out, but there are a very tiny pop, a percentage that population there are kleptomaniac poor, you like, I just gave birth to a watermelon. A square watermill here, yes, Josh Kleptomaniac is not exactly in fact is not at all shoplifting. Shoplifting is the means by which he would perform your kleptomaniac, this an excellent deafened chuck, and I read this article two and I know that that was not in there. There was a study special and is made up of, although I would say you could
from any one, and it will be clear to me that at the store give, but apparently it is generally store really or parties but yeah if you're gonna steal from another from an individual's easily at a party. I think by generally is retailers list what what differentiates kleptomaniac from shoplifters well, there's actually definition as outlined by the american psychiatric associations, diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders, that says that they they outline this criteria. Just the individual repeatedly fails to resist the impulse,
to steal items that are not needed for personal use or monetary value. The writer one year the individual experiences tension before stealing detention is relieved after stealing, and the theft is not due to anger, revenge, delusions, illumination or impaired judgment wreck and ethically. Yet one more psychological disorders can't account for the stealing behaviors different. Other great psychological disorders are still play acting chow. I love this. I'm going to be a club, the maniac. You are going to be a tool, lipstick outright. Ok, I won't. Let me get in the character. Man, you're, you're, a master, ok and they're. Ok are so I'm walking into the store, I'm you know. Looking for some sunglasses I intend to purchase and all of a sudden, I feel, is horrible tension. My stomach is tight, answering a sweat a little bit because I just spotted Chuck
You have lipstick, who is sitting there as an inanimate object, because if you talk than that's delusion, it doesn't count kleptomaniac some looking at Chuck, I'm feeling is horrible tension. I know that I'm going to steal, I dont want to steal, but I have two because the only way to relieve the tension, described, Chuck and put him in my pocket, and I don't even where lipstick there's no explanation for this, I make it out of the store and as I enter into the rest of them all and start to feel like I'm not about to be caught. That tension goes away, may be replaced with a little bit of a thrill, the kick right and then boom. I get hit by this crushing of the stolen again, not only of stolen from something from somebody. I have failed to yet again result
this over welcoming urge. So I take the lipstick- and I go to my grandmother's house, whose now dead, but in the scenario is actually alive, and I just put it in with the rest of her lipstick- go about my business feeling generally bad about myself Can I talk to you? First of all, his little we're being in your pocket had had. I liked duty to sit on a lot of the major points: tension relief, attention, a gilt arrive, giving away what you stole stealing something you don't need or home sometime mortal yeah, it's a lot of times. People were hoarded. I read a case of. Woman in the early twentieth century who was caught shoplifting upper middle class. They caught her, went to her house and found all the stuff that she'd stone with the prices are clearly not used. There's not knowing they dont use the stuff.
Deal. I've got a harder for everybody was here this dude in April of this year in Israel was busted. They went to his house and they found motorcycle helmets, watches Louie Baton, handbags hundred fifty pair of shoes to interfere sunglasses, olive oil, laundry detergent, all kinds of stuff on open in disguise yeah literally stacked in in every corner of the house, from room to room, and he admitted that he been shoplifting for a decade. Every time you went to a story shoplifted for a decade. Any clearly lived alone at now. He has a wife and son and his family now to keep their mouths. While this is for the funny part- and of course this is from an israeli newspaper- it says his wife and son, or suspected of knowing it Activity, but doing nothing about it. That's a formal charge, but he also was busted with a big role of stickers. That say like paid for thank you for coming that kind of thing
So why is it that was part of this deal? He would go in there and like put that on his big tv box or whatever. I wonder if that disqualifies him as a kleptomaniac. There are not things like as he pre planned it. Because one of the things about animals frightened rich, is there. We say his name author of this article Phd nor I, like others, Craig forensic there's no hell out, there's not a total invented that had been reading it. That way for two and a half you were gonna call him doktor, Freud, ok, ok, doctor, for it pointed out that people who are caught the maniacs, true kleptomaniac or I think, from what I gather. We don't call unclear to me. We call him people with Kleptomaniac right, don't go into a store intending to steal. They dont go to steal their just overcome by the IMF
in his store them, except the other thing that makes that guy? I think he is a candidate for a person with Kleptomaniac. Is that he's a man yet women more often- and this is a little hanky too Women are more often diagnosed kleptomaniac, but that islanded a little bit, because I think it said that women are less likely to admit to it or to report it to like their psychiatrist that kind of thing no men, domain, who still go to prison women who still while psychiatric evaluation here, so that that could definitely slayer the populace. But traditionally people think that cut Romania is a feminine disorder you have seen. I storm now need to really great Mary you said that, shamefully, I do feel kind of ashamed. Actually, the mother and daughter, Joe now and Christine Richie, both shoplifting that film, it separately I didn't leave harlot breakers. That signal.
We were in dumb butternut general of your yeah, nothing, but I still think things. In fact, I think John Alan actually still lipstick do yeah. Maybe that was me. It isn't my favorite movies, yes, Josh early teens and twentys. If we're talking more about the pattern is usually when it begins here, but it can run up to the things they found. Click the maniac in their late seventies. Yet didn't we do a story about japanese elderly that are stealing yeah just so they'll get caught. Unlike have a friend they're so lonely their trained. If I may make friends with the police yea being arrests of ethnic clapped him any share in who knows thinking about, and I saw that in the late seventy some I thought of that Seinfeld episode were juries, finds out that his parents, steel batteries and in turn, I thought that almost all of them people still bad idea. That's good for their tick calculators. Get out of here.
The Willard. I'm ruined you know another thing Josh. Is you hit again with your little play? Acting they usually still stuff. They can afford an stuff like shampoo, it listed and sunglasses are big and they like famously well known writer when on Horwitz excuse me no near really ha. That's your name. I had no idea she famously stole several thousand dollars from sex with avenue, five I think they're taking their place that year and I dont know if it ever came out that they did David lead kleptomaniac anything with heard in there now, quietly traded, INA pay their fine and yeah and that their brings up a pretty good point is a club them
Nea defence is really really hard to prove ordered successfully get off on it. Is you know why why I well your defence lawyer must argue that win the argument that there was no reason for you to steal it right, no financial gain or revenge that Europe prove all those things beyond reasonable doubt. First of all the one you want, Well, I know the Thea, the Justice Department doesn't recognise kleptomaniac defence. So if you're out of your federal charges, turning in Trier yeah exactly in that's, that's like the Americans with disabilities, acknowledgement in legislation right, good luck in this, so Chuck Kleptomaniac what is it? Is it an actual disease? Should it be covered in the Americans with disabilities act? Should the d o J finally open up their eyes and be like? Ok, ok rather too thing is clear. The mania! Well, we don't know for sure
There's some people think it's like tagged onto other psychological disorders like obsessive comply, or a personality mood disorders I get so it may possibly like it could be a symptom yeah or A by product of a larger disorder. Right, yes, ok, but by and large, is classified as an impulse control disorder like gambling, pyromaniac fire starting off on or. Trickle till a mania, yes to try getting old man. I never heard of that. Yeah, obsessive airport, yeah, wonderful point around here, other people's, probably both- I don't know it's an excellent question. Actually Tat are producing the general giggling, so you know it's getting, so it either a symptom of a larger disorder or its own impulse. Control disorder were the reasons we don't know is because treatments
were cut. The mania are pitter, Miss yet studied a lot and the other thing is like it hit me like everything else with the brain. It's still or the mystery is in one of the reasons why they have had trouble studying cup demand is finding kleptomaniac wreck. I found a study from two thousand to that was just get off the ground at Stanford, and these people were looking for. Twenty four kleptomaniac further study and work go on tv radio everywhere to try to find like true kleptomaniac and one of them. This guy, who was quoted in in this article on the study. Again him will cut check, which is a pretty cool name. If you ask me agreed with the Toronto psychologist, he said
in the four hundred and fifty cases I've assessed, probably only one or two people were actual kleptomaniac, really retirement and very very small, fascinating part of the larger population did nay. I think ass. Also many articles eight, they said. Maybe five per cent of psychiatric patients yeah admit to being our diagnosis, kleptomaniac, n n, you just These. You revealed something else to think a lot of. It is a mission and you're like remember when me the play acting click, the maniac left in inventing the moors crushed by guilt, I'm going to get the object away from me. You remember the design two. I keep this secret. I think probably keeps a lot of people from coming for
near so. We have no idea how large or small is popular right. It is, but I think, from people who examined shoplifters, they find that the actual clicked maniacs among them are a very small population. In a who has studied at the University of Minnesota School medicine. Yeah, specifically site it was John Grant and he studied the brain and there are a few little deposits. If your theories here one is that a defect in a molecule that transport serotonin might be messed up, your honour, the defect, was messed up. The defects of the defect is Macedonia. You're ok, potentially had trauma could cost something like this. It, the circuits in the frontal lobes right now, maybe happen and decrease in the fine structure of white matter in the frontal lobe, but on the front of love
and the limping system, which is, of course we know, is the brains reward centre. So at an affront look right, which also controls on impulse are the final low controls impulse mood. They have it yeah so clearly, could be its own disorder and have an allowance gonna there. So did we say that treatments don't work all that well like I'm. Sometimes, as is our eyes were, not all the time right. Cognitive therapy work. Sometimes you wanna tourism, the cognitive therapy, yet he can have feared he cracks me in here. Snapping a rubber band on your wrist and impure thought right, covert, sensitive, sensitive nation Josh's. When a patient wants to steal.
And then all of a sudden near your train. To imagine the consequences which to me that's like I thought, that's what you're disposed to teach people it's like come now. It's like the cookies trouble ring a cat and face like every time this. If you dont want with a little water bottle aversion therapy. That is, if you feel the urge to steal, you will be told to do something like holding your breath until it literally painful. Oh I'm, sorry, that's the one that it makes a great yeah you're right with a covert sensitive situation that is kind of what we ass humans should be walking doing at all times, Riah thinking about the consequences of your action. Should and then the last when these is a systematic desensitization, which is relaxation therapy in substituting relaxing feelings instead of the earth to steal. All of those are probably the most difficult thing, click the maniac will ever attempt to-
found another little study the research in April of this year. They started a test where they gave a club to maniacs or click to me. What do you call em again, those with kleptomaniac people with clubs mania, I guess known, must become a maniac in anyway. They they studied, they got twenty five habitual, these men and women between seventeen seventy five and they gave them the drug now track zone, which is what they give alcoholics and drug addicts to curb their their bad behaviour is that the stuff that makes your hang over really really bad? I think so it's supposed to quell those impulses and it cannot work after eight weeks they found that two thirds of the people who had not given
placebo had no urge to steal, and only like eight percent had placebo did so. They also ate their vegetables and went to bed when they return to be good drug yeah. We could use that shook his head. It almost we're going to travel back to the beginning now urge the should have been at the beginning of domain. You was them. I think it first appears in literature in three ninety seven see: ok, Saint Augustine admitted to a lasting the thief for Saint Augustine surmount. He really was if he existed archer and then it ends up in them,
echo literature and eighteen. Sixteen, as was physician by the name of math, he wrote a very unique madness characterized by the tendency to steal without motive and without necessity they have a teen. Sixteen yet and infrared came in and said that, as they do, with peanuts envy, knowing no kidding and out of forty five while not caught the mania, but shoplifting is a forty. Five billion dollar in this country took off him. Eighty six in two thousand nine, these goods that are worth kleptomaniac. You wanna, know anymore. You can read the article by our own doktor Freud. By typing in club. The mania member of begins with cake and the handy search bar has therefore that camp is, as I just said, that of course, dear friends, this means listener male Josh, I'm just gonna call this hippy rob followed up with your old buddy happier. Should you say something about him you are well? Was
hi, Josh and Chuck like him? I mister I don't normally right in the tv shows radio shows etc. But I've heard Josh talk about hippy Rob and at the end of the hang over park ass, he mentioned that he wanted to hear from people who knew of his way doubts. I do in fact no heavy rob and wanted to offer my knowledge of his person to determine if it was the same hippy raw seamlessly, I know that the real hippy rock is capital is the age and the right the hippy right I know is originally from then on Haiti Maine a medium side. Size island off the coast of down east me. We're there dummies His full name, I didn't say, is forming here, but its Robert Blank, and he is thick black deadlocks. He sure telltale, sign of a to sure
about five hundred and ten and never talked about his age, but I would put them in the upper 30s and possibly lower forties and one thousand nine hundred and ninety eight. He loves coffee, alcohol and they mention one of his other habit, city laws which were not intervention on the air, but his name is happy, rob so filling the widespread he swatted at my apartment. Portland, let summer some ninety ninety eight so close at the time he was living off the social security. For me, permanent work related accidents, we ve all known a hippie rob, but something tells me that his permanent disability was not physically it would seem every few summers and main and he would shoot the breeze. We would see the breeze while drinking coffee and doing other things. He was a terrible mooch I know that he loved to travel the warm places in the winter with this neighbour being Hawaii and if you read this on the air could give a shot out. My girlfriend Kristen is amazing sport about me. Listening to the podcast Galen from Portland me so
What is it you have your ah now there's a couple of things. Missing too is so close. I mean the aid. One thing is no one knows the origin of the real hippy wrong. No one knows where have you out front relax he does yeah he had in blood, although you would say more, like Strawberry Blondin, not true blood. Has can the little guy in Ninety eight he would have been late. Thirty's herself been late, much exam yeah used to, like you know, with five beer and by sea or in about a beard run then have any money for a while and then you get paid in he be his turned by the beer and violet gets well pack of walking. I assume you like this is this is not the same. Rob right! There's a dog missing in this is a very key point. The dogs, you don't have to tell you. I am sometimes water
Sedona happy Rob own yes, now these they were best. Friends are now. Of course, he has evolved, argued that echo appropriate his best friend and then the real give away was that he be Rob loved alcohol. That won't than ever. Even now he could have given up booze. No one No one would say, rob he's out the hall. He just didn't drink it anymore. Anyhow, we still ass hippy, rub leather, Was the one is the tell tale given not give you, unfortunately, and I guess you know we're hippy Rob is revealed Sonora clues here then, is an email still no we're looking for and is a Christian in the email, Valence girlfriend Kristen Kristen special thanks, you for letting Galen listen to us. We appreciate their if you have any cost, is about Europe significant other letting you do something that you want to view
put it in the email. Also, if you know where hippy Rob is we want to hear that you are. You can email Chuck and me at all times that stuff podcast at house works that come more on this and thousands of other topics? Is it how stuff works out com what more house words check out. Our blogs on the house of works not come home brought you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camry. It's ready are you text. They will be here before you know it everybody but relax because h, our black is your one: stop tack shop, their tax pressure experts, certified and train and eighteen are black, has up front transparent pricing, which means you know the price before. Again, no surprises and with offices open early and late. It's easy to walk in, make an appointment or just drop off your documents. Do your taxes, outlawed,
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Transcript generated on 2020-01-28.