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Welcome to step you should now production. A pirate radios have stuff: where are you Morgan, Podcast, on Josh, there's Chuck Jerry's out there in the ether somewhere like that. One kid. And made from the camera to the tv early Walker together. One a kinds are wrong: But anyway, this is stuff should know which is appropriate. Did. I get something a kinds: IRAN right at the beginning. Did you ever hear the story from Jean Wilder about the move at the beginning of that movie, where he walked out with a cane worried? Did the spill somersault ye see. Sticks are gaining ground and does a somersault. No, he said it was his idea in this just shows the brilliance of gene wilder and in he said he did that

because he knew from that moment on and no one would believe anything that that character said. Oh, yes, I do. I have heard that before grids at is that is brill. The man was a brilliant man in a wonderful human being who loved him he's got. One of his last interviews on Colonel Brian was so great is gonna, Miss DE gushing in shirt Jean, while there was very, I think, can have taken back by how much he means to people your arms have you ever seen: oh no, that wasn't the question I had did you know? Did you know that question was? Did you fart kid Did you know that Conan o Brien and Denis Lear, your cousins, I dont think I knew that in the current o Brien asking a question on jeopardy. That is his cousin speaking of jeopardy. We have a colleague named CAN Jennings, who is on jeopardy

and we have another colleague to colleagues called D you and Jorge and they a a pug has called Daniel and Jorge explain. The universe is pretty cool, but they also took. I just saw have a be ass. Kids, animated programme coming out September, seventh called Eleanor wonders why Elk in it looks adorable mile since, like a red at my daughter's Ellie yeah, so check it out everybody PBS kid September. Seventh, Eleanor wonders why, in Congrats Daniel and Jorge, do you have any famous cousins? they? Mr infamous, I think we are the famous cousins. That's that's us at our families are in feel pretty great. There keep being like hey. Let's have another family reunion this month, speaking of infamous cousins shook about those angling brothers yeah man. This is, I kind of thought,

I thought we did this in a way that we do on Alcatraz. Maybe just briefly touched on it. Absolutely because this is this movie the nineteen one seventy nine escape from Alcatraz Movie with Clint Eastwood was One of my favorite movies as kid it's a good movie. I watched it is the other night as part of this it was an hp. Especial so, I must have been added when I was eight probably was like ten or eleven and it was one of those men- I probably watched over a dozen times when I was twelve twelve year old, followed by cross, an outline, a mandatory great there, we spent together in the year or games. I mean that those are all HBO specials, but this is a really good movie in I'm a big big fan of prison escape movies. Sure- and I was thinking today, when I was looking over this stuff again that it so we feared that, like these guys,

hardened criminals. And yet when researching this oil can think about is oh man. I hope they got out of their rights and hope let the fat light in Brazil. There really speak still like who they are, what they became because of this escape, which is put most simply their folk euros. I guess oh yeah, that's definitely part of being a full cures that you can transcend. The end of like our I'm judgments. That society, typically levies against criminals like if you, if you are so good at your craft, are so good at thing to do with criminality that new trends. In being judged for your crimes that you ve become a folk euro. Four shirts, I d be Cooper, yeah I think it helps that you know these guys were armed robbers in thieves and, I think, Frank worse and we'll get into all these? These deeds are, but he was a drug traffickers, but they did. Weren't rapist

I don't get it trains in that no they are. They were definitely non violent criminals from everything that I've seen near these to a gun in one of these robberies. Yes, adorable. Let's talk about these like you're, saying I'm talking about a group of people who escaped from Alcatraz in as far as anyone knows they are the only ones who really may have escaped from Alcatraz. They vanished in nineteen sixty two. Seen leaving their cells and were never heard from again and He said they were all hardened criminals like lifelong career criminals, Frank Morris, was thirty five, when he left Alcatraz indeed been criminal, since he was thirteen he was in and out of institutions and light. Said he wasn't a violent, violent criminally. Wasn't a rapist or anything like that. He was used he liked to to sell the drugs. He had. I his forehead tattooed earth star towards tattooed on his forehead

for a while, which you very sensibly had removed later on. Without that means, but It is a drug traffickers. He no. I think that means that he did a few many jugs one night. Oh, he really did have a star yeah. I thought with some like prison thing for, like the teardrop tattoo means you than I mean you killed somebody or somethin, so I've always heard, but I don't know it Beer been legend vs. Wherever we have now, I really did have a star. Ok, I think he got super wasting a head start tattooed on his forehead. There is a tattoo artists, far too handy that night yeah yeah, which I think the old saying don't ever make friends with a two hour yeah or at least drinkin bodies- sure it's true, but he was also super smart yeah. They point this out in the movie in a lot of the movie it. I mean it's pretty close to the real story that they did a really good job, but they do make. Big deal a the movie about how smart he was

I Q, is to take it or leave it as far as that being a real measurement of one's intelligence. But he supposedly had an iq of one thirty and the the bp which stands for them- was a bureau prisons? I didn't know they had rankings, but they had rankings of an intellectuality. That word yeah. I think so. It gets appointed cross air, goad, yeah and I'm curious what other rankings they have, but best look Beth Ebbs, but he was in the top two per supposedly in the mirror, in prison system, as far as is intellectual capabilities. Yet so you'd is you A point that I think we need at least at least bring up like the the the the movie did follow the the actual the truth of the matter fairly closely. In some cases. In other cases, we wildly away like there was a character based.

One guy who was very much involved, they didn't even use his name, and they made him seem less involved that he actually was theirs the movie gets wrong, but the problem with covering this is that there are so many gaps in holes there are so easily casually filled in the UK, help. But wonder like weight was this was this detail, provided somebody saw the movie and took the movie is fact Where are we exactly and just how pure the knowledge and understanding is of this escape. He have to just kind of bear that in mind that its kind Blur in the annals of crime, as far as factually goes yeah, but it's a good story, great story. Most of this is pretty true. I think so Frank Morris was four years into a fourteen year stent. This was for a ban. Robbery and he was transfer, to the rock and nineteen sixty

the right. Now we we're using lingo is its Alcatraz. It's a prison island burn island, prison, yeah, and some might say that Ireland itself is a prison which will get do And then his buddies, you mention the Angolan Brothers J, W John William, and, as you, your brother clearance thirty and twenty nine years old and they were a very big family of migrant Farm Workers and South Georgia. They travelled all over the country where it, wherever the work was basically as a big family and got into stealing things from people, yeah. They were the ones who used the toy gun later on. They they were, I think, visiting family in a small town called Colombia Alabama, which is in the South EAST of the state, and they found out that this bank had been around for a hundred years in this town it had never been robbed, so they assumed going to change that

easy to knock over and apparently was pretty easy to knock over and they had a toy gun that they used and they still manage to give way with at least I think, like ten grand you're twenty grand something pretty substantial amount of money and they were on the run further while but got caught in the Albanians, were very happy with it may through the book at these brothers, they got twenty five year sentences for robbing a bank with a toy gun they actually was way better than the sentence they initially face, which was the potentially the death penalty. That's crazy yeah. So they were, they were, they were caught in busted and they had a third brother name Alfred too. Who is also involved that he was never sent to the to the rock as you put it, and then it was not a bad. It was factually a lot easier to rob banks back The air was ways you to be a criminal even just a few decades ago, just in general, I think now it's like do even try. Now you get a mean if it

the cops and their cameras. He get some dumb neighbour with their cameras. Like me, oh man, I hate to get off topic so quickly and we should put this on facebook page or something or maybe I'll put it on Instagram flight. I got attacked by squirrel and it was captured by my front of the house. Camera Nguyen. Everyone wants to see that is greater deserves. Cannot some recycling and I heard some rustling in a way around the corner, and I was like this squirrels free now and then he literally leaped if he freeze frame it, he leaped three feet the air wound and hit my leg and ran up my leg a little bit and then- and I thusly that's. Some new be wonderful if the inner cut closeups of your face when you got that Charlie horse and internet round, my God in with this oil attack It's a good thing! I don't care about myself in looking dumb. Why did Why did that girl attack? You would you do? I didn't? Do anything was freaking out and then I turned and looked after I dropped the recycling off and he in another squirrel

go and added our oak tree. So He was just he was all riled up. He might have pointed out on you dear. Did he have a star tattooed on his forehead. Right on his little funny very forehead. Well, yes, please do posts there again, so Are these guys are all in Alcatraz and Alcatraz at the time was like us, it was sort of the rock itself, was the prey and that was the idea- was that if you're If you manage to get out of the prison that they eventually built, which will talk about, then you still can't get their cause, you got a swim. Over a mile to the nearest body of land about one point three miles that waters really cold. The currents are brutal. The winds are really strong. Separatist obey bay is not you now, for me, but I've been there, it's not just some lovely little she'll body of water tat, you hang out in no it's not very hospitable, body of water, it's not so.

Therefore, the idea was that yeah like when you got sent Alcatraz you weren't getting offer their eyes. And you either paroled or died, and that was The reason that the Angolans in Frank Moors were sent. There was because they had all met at the federal penance, let Diana. I guess the window and grant part great yeah, which that building is amazing, its work. Most forbidding buildings in the world. I would say it looks like an old timer federal penitentiary, The poem was there too for a little while yeah actually drove by their, not too long ago, with my daughter for the first time in a site check out the building. Look at that site, that's a prison what's a prison and oh well. I guess I got explained that I'll tell you when you're eighteen, if you make it and don't go to prison first,

so they they all met at the federal pennoned outline, and I can't remember if they actually made it out or if they were cod escaping, but they were known escape artists, like the that I'm Frank Morris had escaped from places in Florida. They they didn't stay put when you, when you put them in prison, and so that's why they were all sent to Alcatraz and just crazily as they arrived between one thousand nine hundred and sixty and one thousand nine hundred and sixty one. They were all put pretty close together in fact, the angle brothers ahead. Joining cells, which is a very stupid thing to do, but that's what they did in part. I believe, because there is a certain through of arrogance that ran through the administration of Alcatraz that it was just basically inescapable yeah, and I think you also sort of want happy prisoners. In I've, heard of requests like that being made possible before, like hey put me, My brother were can be a lot better behaved. Yeah were deaf

not going to break out I don't think we mentioned either like Alcatraz was so formidable as it just as an island that the very first time they used it was when the army put soldiers there who, who cheered on President Lincoln's death and so they don't even bother building a prison that aid is built in barracks. The room on the islands like well, you're imprison out is good, but getting out here yet said I saw too and when the the bureau prisons took over they they really fortified it even more. Like you said there is a larger building that how's that Being from like the mess hall to the cell blocks So when you were in a cell in a cell block, you were you're in a little tiny prison inside a larger prison on side, this island prison in the cell blocks themselves had like three inch thick

concrete walls reinforced iron bars. The building itself has made a very thick concrete. It was. It was just mention two to basically tell you, there's, there's no getting out here, but what's goods crazy, is Frank: Morrison, the England brothers they weren't, the first people ever try to bust out. I believe they were part of a total of thirty six people who tried to escape in the history of the prison Everybody else. Almost everybody else was either killed, captured or bodies were found, except in did not realise this Worse in the angle, Imbros were not the first people vanished without a trace from Alcatraz. Had you heard about TED Coal and Ralph row, I hadn't about them until this, but in the thirties, late thirties, they did escape and they did vanish and in a sort of like where the stories gone on the guinea, one

to admit that from the prison system that they can really made it right there they're like they, they die, they drowned The thing is the thing that really differentiates. The England, brothers and Frank moors from guys like TED Colon, Ralph row, they also common that they escaped from Alcatraz and vanished without a trace. The thing that differentiate. Morrison. The Angolans is that their folk euros, because almost exclusively because of this plan they devised and executed, and that the plane was so good and so complex and well done that did, they actually lens credence to the idea that they may have survived and escaped from Alcatraz genuinely yeah and what they heading common is that they were all topped in in a best ebbs in the prison system and what everybody listening right now has in common. Is that you're about to hear an end

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ok we're back everybody? And I think it's high time we talk about the plan, the escape playin, don't you yeah it. If you're going to escape from Alcatraz. It's not the kind of thing where you distract the guard and just run and jump over a fence. You got to start this thing this plan, many months in advance and by all accounts they and what accounts, meaning from the one account that we really have this started planning of the easily six months before the escape. They started. Helping this plan. They start collecting kind of anything. Can get their hands on that. They think they can use it. Everything fringes loose nuts and bolts and screws too. Things that I mean they actually ended up using a lot of stuff, but I got there:

They were just kind of like any time. They saw something that they can squirrel away and hide they would do because you never know what you could use it for you and so like over the six period. They amassed something like eighty tools that they either stall had stolen for them rebuild a re purposed out of other stuff, just made completely out of their own labour, like that they had a pretty extensive tool kit that they created one of them They got a lot of the tools was from Alan West, whoever mentioned yet, but A lot of people are realised. There was a fourth can barrier in the Alcatraz escape. Who was a major integral part of it, but who actually didn't go along with the escape, as will see a man that partner movie. So tough, it is especially with that point.

He's he just looks the other character outer boom. Like down on my work, I can t spare a dime rhodium. He so good he's been an eight, so many things, but he was, and I think, was the guy who played Kramer. He asked I get all the media in the pilot I'm busy. Violet yeah like in the show the guy playing Kramer is right on the show in the show. I think that was here. He stole the image names I think yet so he was innocent. From Alcatraz two year. He just his pervert for that part, but this guy, Alan West, he he was on the painting crew and he put that to use big time one of the first wave, did it was used in the prison, barbershop and managed to steal a pair of electric clippers while he was in their painting and they were like, This motor will come in handy well, let's repurchase it into a power drill and they did yeah, that's pretty cool. He also, I mean having a little motor so handy. So he came across a a vacuum cleaner that wasn't working and he said he

you mind. If I repair this, I gotta shake the tree but after that you mind, if I repair this in, they call it the vacuuming now, when you gotta pee on them on jangling, called shaken the dream. Oh, I guess I think that's what it's called sure, but I me was to do things in a vacuum. Nothing is just prisoner Samuel out of prison, jokes all the may be worth listening. Rhinos busted out laughing, like you, said, shake the tree well to drinking game outwards. If you listening from prison, if someone to shake the tree take a drink of Peru, know what that's another drink, yeah, that's the! But that's what you would drink when somebody said shake the treaty says a tree one more time right, shake the tree guys by kept pretty good buzzing prisoners. So he says: let me fix this vacuum cleaner. They say, that's fine! He saw that the vacuum cleaner, couple of different motors

and one of which he used to repair and actually making you know, pass it off his working cleaner, and then he just took that other one, and that met They could make a drill that was even more powerful than the other one yeah, so they had not one but two electric drills at their disposal, which can give you a pretty good idea of just how dedicated in Smarten crafty. These guys were right. Yes, they also very famously ended up with fifty five. Zero different raincoats there were made from prison issue raincoats, so they got from other inmates, and this really reveal something I think, a lot of people don't necessarily realize it seems like basic We all the inmates in prison with anger The Angolans in Morris were well aware of their plants, not necessarily every detail, or even any of the details just that they were planning break it out into the night,

she get their hands on, like fifty different raincoats from other prisoners that they used to build a life raft in life vests were pretty great. I think the idea was that these guys like being on Alcatraz, so they kind of figured hey if these guys, she'll get out. They're gonna close this place down we're gonna get out of here right now. You know I know if I were to go along with that rationale. I would, it's gonna, be even worse for us here, but Oh hang on what happened to the end of the show, however, that I think everybody would have kept their prune. From you had you raised that point so they gallows stuff, they get paint, they get paper, they could be collect, hair and from the from the barbershop they like sweep of his hair and keep you might be thinking why in the world would they need that you'll just way, you'll see and then they had about three and a half hours each evening after dinner, slop and before lights out where they had to work.

And create. You know a way out of their prison cell and then once they get out of their prison. So, like you, said their stone, this larger building then away out of there. But the first trick is getting out of their individual cells yeah. Also from what understand that took up like the lion's share of the time. Tween, when they first hatch this plan in when they finally escaped there. There were like these little six by eight or nine or something very small ventilation, chef cemented in the wall these there? were submitted in the wall. But really it was just a little metal great overhaul, so they figured it. They could start chip away at the hall. An enlarged the whole into something they could crawl through an that's exactly what they did eventually: overtime, frank, more and then both of the Anglo brothers managed to create these holes and they did so bye. Bye, serving his look out for one another, while the other one,

chapter one night than they were trade off that kind of thing, and then here's a question that I have a could not confirm one way or the other if it was a movie thing or if it was a real life thing, but in the movie, they create these kind of cardboard, false walls yeah that their able to fill the whole with that allow like the great is still there in the wall is still intact. So they were out of their cells. They could put this false wall and behind them and Nobody would be any the wiser when they just walk past and casually glanced in there. I don't know if they did not. I mean it's a pretty great data, all of the movie so I'm inclined to believe it. Let's go with a what didn't see in IRAN is a long time. Did they have Drills in the movie is just remember a lot of digging with the kind of dislike used to sharpen, is it a little. Many pick a sharp and spoon with they are the wardens, fingernail clippers, Eddie, still

in like one of the first scenes, but there is no general in the movie. What utter not that I remember about how to fix their deftly were to drills when one of the girls that one with the vacuum motor they actually figured out ages to loudest too powerful get into that so they they abandoned that one. But I dont know what became of the hair clipper drill. I didn't hear the thing about that when other than that they created an used it. Well, they manage dig through, though, where they can get their bodies out of the cell and that you must have felt like you know where we're halfway there at this point, guys in the o I'll bet, so they come from there It led to a utility court orders about a meter wide and there were no guards in here cause this sword like the debts of the prison yeah like. Why would you, the guard where there are people wink wink and in that corridor they could can move around freely. They would climb up to the ceiling. This is like a three story: cell block still within

a larger building, though of course like we mention, and then had a full on workshop up there for a few weeks. They could store their tools, they get hide their stuff, they could build, We already talked about the rest, but where they were much, it would build the raft their minute just sort of sort of sir there staging area, where they would eventually leaf. To go by this big heavy iron, great to a ventilation chef which actually finally led to the rooftop great. But the big iron gray was a big iron problem, because the hours were reinforced, there was, they were, I think, welded or maybe screwed, I'm not sure into this iron ring that covered this ventilation shadows a big problem, and then they figured out the boy. Holding this whole thing together were actually not nearly as strong as the bars that made up. The in the ring that held the bars, so they started working away cutting these

one way or another. I think they created a wrench. They build themselves a ranch in. They managed to use that some pretty good effect, but- It went from digging out of their cells to figure out a waiting to get through this great. That was kind of like stage. Two men must talk about the wrath, because the raft is an extremely important part of whole thing. I think really one of the things: if not the thing that that lend credence dear that they might have actually made it yes, these raincoats in back, then raincoats were just basically sheets of rubber in brief, very well very hot, think I guess sweating Gordon's fishermen type of stuff sweaty Gordon's fishermen are yet again, as I swear it so they ended up creating a six foot by fourteen for life raft from his raincoats rum article in popular mechanics, which shows up a couple of Times variable magazine and if you are trying to escape prison There was an article about a hunter who

had got Marston survived hunting geese that he attacked it using rubber decoys that he'd made so they get. Idea they build these info whoa pontoons made from these raincoat sleeves, so they were stuffed inside and made airtight gluing rubber cement contacts emit over the seams. Then, pressing against steel pipes, which vulcanised it is basically melted. Everything shut. And then you have. These Photoshop tunes that you could. Who's in craft. This larger raft, yeah so they had something that was inflatable that the because those seems were vulcanised it would the air they couldn't escape. And they use the Concertina I can remember handsome PETE. There is like a little a little guy who plays the forty and down on the docks that looks just like her. See the clown in one of the Simpsons episode and he's playing concertina, sick. A squeeze box is like an accord

without the keys in the button here that it acts as a bellows cause. It moves air, essentially, that's they used it for me, modified so that they could use it to inflate their wrath very quickly with his concertina that I guess they stole from the prison music room, which is pretty great. They're working on all this stuff in the raft in particular this? This is like the the linchpin of this whole plan. As this raft in these life preservers there, work fell to Alan West. So, while these virtue were words like chipping away, the ventilation holes Allen was to standing look for most of them and he was creating raft in these life fast, so he was unable to chip away his own ventilation whole nearly as fast so, while they were out, you know working on the the great event cover great he. Still had no way out of his cell. At that point he hadn't made it all the way through yeah and you know we should point- something that earlier we mentioned. If, if they happen-

walk by and they don't notice a hole in the wall because they may or may not have made these false grates and walls if you're listener- and you don't know the story you mother said like yeah, but wouldn't they have there was no one in the cell good question. What they did was made paper machine recreations of themselves. They made these bus these that prison hair cigarettes is so good. And use a rubber cement again to go this hair on and if you see the real things, it's not I'm too so or anything. It's not like boy. Look at that likeness for a realistic, but it's in the dark and you're sort of, I think, is a human trained as to see what you're looking for. So, if your guard, this is walking by you see a head turn the other way with with prison hair on it. In some pillows under a blanket and you

think it looks fake. It just looks like it wouldn't like Ferris Bueller style, with like a fix nor on the highway, system or anything, but kind of walk it. It worked well enough, like they did this for weeks and weeks and weeks with these paper, Michel Bust and at work. They never got noticed now they didn't because I may remember like that that they were working between the end of dinner and lights out, so they just seem to have made it look like They went to bed early and put the paper machine. Busts and they're sure sleepy Heather Muddy burn over you, Frank gotta. I got a lot of questions about this problem, can investigate anniversary is equally so you want to talk about. Escape and I'm gonna break. Yeah. I think that the way to do it, ok, so, finally, they get to this point where the gray It is the bars are removed from this great enough that they can slip through

and they realise that they have. They have successfully penetrated to the exterior of the building. That right, ok they're on the roof will they know they can go on the roof now they know this go night at that they got up there at least wants to be like I don't know, I haven't, heard anything like that and there's a lot of questions about why this particular night was this, the very first night that they were able to get out there like, let's go, which seems likely to me or were they waiting for a particular night or, like you said they tested before they do any dry runs? We dont really No, that boy we do know is that on Monday June, eleventh, nineteen sixty two J, W Angling, Clarence Angling in Frank, Moors, all left yourselves and the first thing, frank more, it was go to help out West finish them punching all through his cell, while poor girl until had not done this. Yet he's like come on

to go, but apparently part of the plan was to help him punch the whole. The rest of the way and then he would escape with them. Frank moors: parentage, in vain and went off to get clearance angling too, to come, try they traded off and then Clarence tried he couldn't do it either. So I guess he the very comfortable governor I'll right back, I gotta go, I gotta go shake the tree or something like that. I'll be right back. You see here and there the last. Anybody ever saw of Frank Moors, Clarence Angling or J W angling from from moment until today. Yesterday get to that corridor. They climb up to the roof of the cell, blocked into that ventilation. Shaft. That great is now under problem and they put out Alan Wesley. Is barely here. I'm gonna get you coming back right any minute. Now you said so. They There's a rain cover on top. They push that thing off in this. This all makes

noise and in the movie they they can. Accurately display that tourism clanking and clanging around in I dont think in the movie. They did this, but in real life supposedly there was so much noise they did like a little forty, five minute, Canada a search of the area right. It's not a good journey. They didn't show up on the roof. That's for sure they basically didn't find anything. So the guys- out. They shimmy about fifty feet to the ground, the drain, pipe which, as I always do it, go to that perimeter, fence and I'm sure the perimeter? France was fine, but I think the idea was that there never getting out anyway. So I don't think it had like fifty feed of razor wire. Anything like that. I think it did have double Dwyer at least shirts, nothing for its knowledge, concertina wiring, up like that around one in the morning. Alan West,

or Alan West. He finally gets that so great broken open. I am sure he just thinks all right, I'm gonna catch up to these as in its gonna, be all good I'm getting out of here follow that same route is spend a couple of hours. This point, though he that these were genuinely good deeds. It seem like, as they did, leave him a paddle dumping. We mention the maid paddles the chair legs in the writers and nuts and bolts and upon tune that was, inflated form, and he had it snack, low rice, Krispies rights because between them Bruno Lozada turnovers for his courage and then looks over terrible timing There's a guard in a new position. They basically could see anything. He tries to do yeah it from any way forward. Here. Usually pinned down on the roof? He can't do anything so this around one a m or something, and he figures: ok, the girdle eventually move, while in my The guard never moved for

old dog. Does it this guy p right doesn't shake the tree he didn't. He did not say the trees stayed put in. So eventually Alan West was forced to climb back down the ventilation sham back down from the roof of the cell blot as worrying Iraq to his cell, that he had just a few hours earlier. Finally, after months, punched, the whole, through and he went and lay down in just waited for the the heat to come down on them, and indeed it did because at that Seven, a m bed check, three dummy heads were discovered were three inmates: real head should have been and the prison just one preserve. You know that feeling you get when you take a wrong turn and go like through miles in the wrong direction- have to go all the way back. The other way you imagine being Alan and having to do that that times, infinite that times infinity, you're gonna break. I think so,

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on a book and the book author a Believe basis, stuff an interview or interviews with Alan West. There Ellen was head with the bureau prisons and the FBI because, basically Everything we know about the escape from Alcatraz came the mouth of Alan West, yes, he made it he'll, he said, listen I'll, tell you all about it, but you can throw in here for longer, because I tried to gay prison. You gotta give me immunity for that attempted escape let's disguise. It really wasn't much of an attempt. Can you give me a break here, the sad walk of shame back here now, I have, feeling that there definitely factored into their decision to give him immunity like man. Probably so you really. Are you really got a hard luck case, so he makes a deal and says I ll tell you everything. But again, this is just his account of it one thing that can jump out is maybe it's not them Accurate account was that he was

yeah. I was the mastermind. I thought up the whole thing from the start and That's quite true, because it seems like Clint Eastwood Dead, yet the fur then the in the movie, the movies. Basically it should be called coal in the frank, moorish story here the main character everybody else's aside character, whose quiney some it really kind of doubt. Play the lot of the contributions by the England Brothers, certainly by Alan West, doesn't even use Eleanor s name. So I dont know how much of an influence is from a movie or if their movies is based on the general idea. That Frank Morris was the master. And in the leader that he was a very intelligent. Person in kind of a born leader from what I know so that don't clear whether Ellen was actually came up with this plan or not was the one who, there. There raft all this time and he got left behind. Or maybe he had really weak arms, and this is just what he told the the the bureau prisons investigators

The reason why he never was able to chip out of the his cell, who knows, but just so bear. My from his point, forwards is going to go on with the with this is gospel, but all of this is coming from. Ellen was mouth. He was the one that was left behind I feel like in the movie. He got to the point where he could not jump up by himself and reach. The great is that right, So in the movie they help each other up Ryan. He would would have had to have done it himself and he couldn't job he has kept. Jumping and jumping in couldn't make it. Yes, from what I know he made it up to the roof, was pinned down on the roof by that that guard and the here right, I wasn't. There was a guy inside none of that. We know you right in the movie. It was like that so The plan was in this again from West Account said, was to sail this raft Argus paddle this raft across the bay to Angel Island about a mile away. Little over from there they were gonna arrest for a little bit get their bearings sir. Ash everything and then said

to the mainland across what's called the wreckage, stir murmuring county and then once it Got there, they would start who, in crime again immediately, they could rob S, store for clothes and money and steal a car and get the hell out of there as quickly as possible. Before word gets out, stoutly, which is pretty great plan, actually examine other crime part I would have had an. I guess, Is this get as far away as possible, but I'm not out of reality car is selling somebody's going do give you one hang take the Bart sure you could take the bar. Gas is available was around back, then. I think it is good, maybe they're, just like one last face to get away from here. Maybe that's what it was. Maybe they just want. I mean I get that want the urge to get as far away from there is viable yet, but also what? If The sudden cops are on you from stealing a car immediately

ago? Is a really gets all risk? It is a big risk in a lot of people say that they were actually helped. On the other side, there is a guy named dumb May I care members last name, but is his first? The earth nickname was bumpy. He was very hard crime. Lord drug Lord, who has just said it'll be a and they think that he may have heads thing to do with helping them escape with somebody who would have shown up in and pick them up and driven them off other. Will say that one of the angolans girlfriends is there, but the FBI supposedly investigated suppose, Frank Morrison have anybody? He was an orphan. He didn't have anybody in the outside. He could help the Angolans had family Definitely what helped if they could, but they I didn't have the means to actually to help them out in San Francisco bumpkins, so

yeah, but they were tight family. There are the kind of family were. I think, if one of em and call me like I'm breakin, I need you to pick me up. They would have done it that they're, like that, that kind of tight family bond now, like my maybe I'll call you re back in Cologne FBI, how General Ward, have for giving up a prison escapee, yes, of a federal prison all much on crate, PAN can he do any better, it's you who does exactly my failure will follow up. They did find him evident, so they did a search for about a week and a half With the F B, I like your scene in the bureau prisons in the Alcatraz people they're all Superman, of course, actually in the movie version and They search Angel island. Are they? all the other islands in the bay, and they did find. One of those I preservers that had teeth marks. The inflation valve. They found a wallet wrapped in plastic that they, it was Day Debbie England's. Yet they found those oars and

they found they look like most of one of the rafts or most of the raft, but no bodies stolen cars, no burglaries, had reported anything in the area unusual to the two. According to their plan, which was You know still close money in a car yeah, and so the bureau it's like right out of the gate, was like they drown. Third, they were washed out to see. That's. It will never hear from again, but they're dead didn't actually escape and that this was a nineteen six two. It wasn't until nineteen, seventy nine of the F B. I closed the book and said yeah, that's probably will happen. We presume that they were dead in their bodies lost at sea, but when rebuilding this case. They recited the story of named Seymour Web, who had jumped from the Golden Gate Bridge a virtually the same time, the angolans and more would have been in terms, is go Bay and his body was profound I'd, despite there being witnesses who watch

some jobs, very Fonzie, yeah, yes, but at the same with this kind of demonstrate. Like look. Maybe it had this guy was never yet he was never found. He jumped the same time, the angolans in more through the water, so maybe their bodies were never found. There was citing of a body about five weeks lay in July of nineteen sixty two a group of norwegian sailors who saw something floating off in their like zen embody the ensuing gap, anarchy. In this area to body it was. Body it was floating upside down, so all they could see was the but basically bobbing in the water and the but looked through their binoculars. At least to have on genes, have on Denham, and You know that was part of the prison outfit was they were wearing Denham and at this this is the part that kind of gets a little fun enemy is the F B. I said that there were no miss, persons in the area in that time frame. Were wearing jeans, Are you ready for this so

sitting down. Who knows Anna was reported many weeks later. So, if you know it was all those kind of hearsay, I guess at that point it was and then by the time, actually reported the siting of October to their like. Well, it's kind of useless, but there they do pointed out and say: okay, this combined thus more web. We think that their bodies were swept out to sea. Not everybody agrees with that, including the angling family, who very much maintain that their brothers survived this escaped from Alcatraz and actually had a photograph that I dont know where they got it, but they they have a photograph. There was supposedly taken of their brothers in Brazil and nineteen. Seventy five looks today like I could have been them all this. Certainly, doesn't there actually a company a camera, the name of the company, but they do like gum, artificial intelligence. Facial Commission gather dust Billy, leading the way to a disappear, but they, like everybody,

we want to introduce you to your software, so we're gonna analyze. This picture and dumb there. I said yeah fortunately the angolans. How cool is that yeah certainly looked at it in it, it could be it didn't, So unlike them, there was no way right, and again I found myself be like him in these guys made it to Brazil Robin banks. There did this technically that I have them raising cattle in Brazil. That's my my idea. In two thousand thirteen there was a letter sent to De San Francisco police Department Lee from J W Angling saying we made it guys, but just barely died in two thousand eight. We kept in touch great guy Clarence, in two thousand Levin and I'm still on but I got cancer, I need help, and I'm gonna come forward. If you, if you promise in pinky, swear until the public,

you're, not gonna, send me to jail for more than one year and you're gonna hear my cancer yeah, and apparently they analyze the letter or like this is inconclusive, but the FBI was like we closes. Ninety seven nine went out about nine open it up, but here's the thing that the aid- that they survived is at least possible enough that, for this whole time, the? U S, marshals office, who took over the case from the FBI, nineteen. Seventy nine have have kept. It open These guys are wanted outlaws still to this day, even though they would be eighty nine. Ninety ninety five, I think by now they are cindered wanted fugitives and the cases open even I believe the marshal service typically believes that they're dead. They haven't closed the case. Yet here's my deal, if you do something like this and you leave some rock solid deathbed evidence the near just selfish you really are you owe it to the world to have this? Be a lead story, be like Frank: Morris died,

and he had no here's. The evidence is that little flower from railway yeah exactly t teach your smartest head of cattle to stamp out a message in Morse Code. That's why I want you in your dying days, doing teaching that cow the marsh. Say that they dont think they survived in and went on lead lives of solitude. Because there are keys hazard, career criminals. They would something again they would have gotten caught again to good point arguments, for is that They don't know they plan this, that way or not, but when they went on the day they went in during the hours they went actually had a few good hours, a pretty com bay currents, the It could be so bad that they're gonna pull you ought to see or so bad that they take you the wrong direction completely away from land They said that you know whether it's providence or whether they planted this way. They had a cloud, night, so there would much light from the moon and they had

we combat so in theory they they might could have done this they could have, but the Winds were really terrible. That night too, I think there are Gus subject twenty miles an hour sustain wins. Ten miles an hour in which direction that's tough to row. I who knows if they, it was lucky, then yeah it was boiling. I'm towards angel idle in that was in their favour, was blowing in any other direction. That would make it very very little to Brazil. And then make Mehevi serve the illegal? I was fortunate, didn't even the seal car, the The other problem is the water, the water temperatures like fifty degrees Fahrenheit, which is very, very cold, and you get very numb and that eventually he sent in. Shocking and exhaustion pretty quickly after being in this water, for thirty minutes her last, but people swim in that thing and it happened before they have triathlon in the end that water and people do it. So it's not to say that these guys could,

I have done it. It was it right so frigid that science would say. Oh no, you would die inside five minutes in this water exact. Me, especially if they were operating Ahmed Adrenalin, that they surely would have had from the escape. She means fifty feet down a drain. Pipe alone will pop your full of some pretty decent adrenaline. So who knows what they were capable of at the time? I have a theory monsieur that the Angolans killed, Frank Morris. There on that raft and that was the body offloading and that's why they to Brazil, and we never heard from Frank Moors again I don't like your theory, I don't want it already on them at the last minute. Now No, my theory is that that body was actually see more web, that he was wearing Denham genes, underpants that got taken off of other plants,

and then he wasn't icily dead, but he met a mermaid or man who he fell in love with and spent the rest of his life under the sea. With from that, slowly, like that theory, but not the chariot up here, Is it those prisoners who wanted to help them escape cuz? They thought the prison clothes were right, the prison. Shut down the following march, and bureau prison said you know what we were going to shut this thing down anyway, because Alcatraz is just too much to keep up. This is big, concrete block on a rocky and when is too expensive, to keep out right with very few guards soon but in the movie they definite sort of betray it is is that's the reason why here Warden never had a happy day again tried pretty satisfying film. Pretty satisfying Phil in. I guess we set all this to say this. We have a book coming out that we would love for you to pre order

it's right stuff. You should know that jarring an incomplete compendium of mostly interesting thing in guys wondering lifelong dreams- is to be a money order. The best seller list, and I give you a teacher We really want to get on that list in if that was Well, today we wouldn't be on it. So we would love for you, step up and help our dreams come. True sure has evidently, I think, that's a great plea, A plea and unplug altogether to police egg was in cost twenty bucks. I think so and is worth every penny. I can you because we wrote it. I oh that's it. If you want to go to a book, you computer anywhere, you get books. Thank you in advance and I think that it for escape from Alcatraz to write it, if you want to know more about escaping from Alcatraz, there's really great articles books in all sorts of stuff?

the internet for you to dig into so get taken, so I said, get dig in its time for listener male, unlike others, Delaware response. We can put funny Delaware Little bit a we now. I guess it was me Delaware, Syrians Delaware and still wearing the Delaware Wary and nine They are lovely people as it seems because we ve done quite a few emails now have good humour about their their lovely little state. Hey guys, are Delaware, family had a laugh at your pirate radio broadcasts, Delaware, and I m threat. There would be proud to be known as the Luxembourg, the United States, most people drive where state on five in less than thirty minutes. But if you do stop by our state, is rich in history and culture and we have a few nice beaches. What you should know is the Ark on the top of our state. I guess is an arch is made by a twelve mile radius from Newcastle in historic town

many people do not know, is the bottom of the Ark for a wedge betwixt Pennsylvania Maryland in Delaware Ownership, that land was in dispute between Delaware Inputs Pennsylvania for decades only to be, resolving nineteen twenty one rumour has it that the disputed and was a haven for unsavory type to capitalize on the uncertain jurisdiction thanks for the show and forms in entertains my family, and we wish you from Delaware, the first state to ratify it, institution that is wrong. Where's get in family nice Doug. You. I would lead with the first state to ratify the constitution, think that they taught that allied, that's a good thing to doubt. Well. If you want to be like Dugan defend your state of others, Delaware or not, we want from you and you can send it in an email to stuff podcast. I heard radio Dhaka study should know its production.

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