Sometimes providence smiles on historians. Thus is the case with the Rosetta stone, an ancient Egyptian tablet that served as the key for unlocking hieroglyphics, lost to time for a millennia. Learn about the international intrigue, rivalry to translate it and the luck that led to the founding of Egyptology.
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Stop. You should now run housekeeper of Stockholm and welcome progress than Josh Park. There throws the beach of Brian, and this is that you should know the overly thought studio addition. I know I do not at all happy. You also said that the urban or New Yorker shook your hand. So what does that say that his strong, handsome and you're always called tell these Lamson here? Well, Jerry's decorated, it's nice! It is nice, its legislation, IKEA cattle, on track chuck. Yes, how many times even to Egypt.
Tying the trip in high school zero same here, yeah, and yet we know an awful lot about Egypt, yeah popular especially ancient Egypt, Sir, like I would wager that we probably know more about ancient Egypt, the modern, Egypt, Libya, the most people in the west.
This is their modern, Egypt. There is undergoing quite bitter turmoil right now and getting I'm ok
I want to make sure that you knew that Egypt was still around yes, ok with me,
that you- and I know a lot about egypt- is thanks to a soft science. One of the humanities. You call it called each
technology they're, pretty on the nose name for the study of ancient Egypt, yeah, it's a real popular thing and has been for a while, but not too terribly long. I would say about the beginning of the nineteenth century and the reason that all of it was fostered and they're all of it came about and that we you and me no about Egypt was because of the discovery of a tablet known as the result of stone threat, but you can also go back him further and make the case that if it wasn't for Napoleon Bonaparte, we may not understand Egypt to this day
that little guy he wasn't that little though it is a right right, he was every type right. Why? What is what people say that there were that come from because some doktor rode down, I think, upon his death that he was five foot to, but what a lot of people don't realises that the doktor was using the french inch, which is longer than the British imperially it really. So, when you translate Pfeiffer two from the French and to the imperialist six eight, he was about five, six, ok, which has every type and the other reason why he was called like a little emperor by his armies. Yet was because compared to most of his body guards in his speech,
he had around I'm sure he was shorter than them. Yeah, I guess when you five six, you want some six for deeds around you not so, but the idea that he was a very short man is not correct. Yeah I'd always heard that what is another story, the French there's your band name for the day, although a typically dont like rhyming names, french inch, doesnt right, it is sound similar. I wouldn't call a rhyme French, an inch french inch of the Inn. I yeah that's NIT. Picking up. Oh yeah
the vowels that rhyme nothing continent, the other. If you're still mountainous and you put French at the end of the line and entered the into another, it would be, it would be right me, buy and sell a lot of records that right
yeah! Well, there was are pavement reference, that's becoming a daily thing to you. So are you wanna get on with this year
Let's do it bring me talkin Rosetta stone, not the language software, which neither one of us is a reused, we're talking about the the real thing which is actually bigger than I thought. You know many things are smaller for me like when you seem in person, motorways, of course, mainly small, like with England, those big been, and it's a big really yeah. I dont think I have the impression of big bimbo case. Can underwhelmed a definite didn't seem big, whereas the Eiffel Tower those bigger than I thought there.
Where I developed the fear of heights that still plagues me. To this day, I literally happened to me on the Eiffel Tower on the way up, never had a fear of heights, my entire life,
on the way down to the light like with hanging onto the faint really in it, took me forever to get down, because I was suddenly deathly afraid. If I just hit me my brain changed air healthy seventeen is well. I don't go to the top upright missed out. I didn't either it was the first.
Will they got me half a mile or so anyway,
going out to bigger than I thought it was. It is on black base alt, and it weighs about three quarters of a time. Forty six inches high point, five thirty inches wide and twelve inches deep and its large heavy it SAM. You didn't. I just did you know now it's about the size of a heavy coffee table where you about to make fun of something. Now I can say, however, wrote this rift mean a reference to a city tv reality himself, medium screen, Elsie television
oh by the way. Thank you too Teresa dove Fan request that we requested this one so its larger than I thought, and I learned a lot-
This. I thought the Rosetta stone, because I'm a dummy was literally like here's. What I
for that is in here's, what everything means and now that you found it. You can now decipher everything you. I think I have the same impression as well. Until I read this that I thought it was like created as a key year. You hire glimpse not at all, not so it was a year government document, basically Stelly Della stairways the plural and sent to suggestions that you Stella still. I am. The mines have largely been figured out, their language has from old stairway one. That's it does. It feel that use stelly yet in this case is sitting in inscription carved in three different languages: greek hieroglyphics and domestic with tee, not demonic. Yet De Martinek, but since on from the south I saw in my thesis might somewhat contained, demonic, yeah and basically was in the three languages to ensure that everybody could read it because it was an official government
three not super exciting. Now, no wasn't basically what the result of stone says and, like you said it in three languages, there's a decree that says it essentially that Ptolemy, the fifth is a great ruler and he is a righteous worshipper of all the right God. So he's ok, our book yet in this decree was made by some priests who gathered at Memphis.
And they are inscribed stoner headed inscribed in dated March twenty seventh one, ninety six busy here and it's not it doesn't actually say March: twenty seventh and higher growth x. It says eighty monsieur the egyptian calendar translates to something like
March twenty seventh night. They get the one ninety six because somewhere in their references, the ninth year of Ptolemy, the fifth rain right, which is about one ninety six, so that where they got the date from the what we would in the west equated to yet so I'm like we said it, it doesn't say anything a particular interests. At the time there was an important message, but it's not the rose at a stone because of what is transcribed upon that stone. No, it's the fact that it in three different languages, exactly yeah so there's like you, said higher Griffiths, demonic and greek and hieroglyphics
a sacred alphabet: yeah these efforts are really important stuff. She added another see there. I thought just any old thing they wanted to write was hieroglyphs. No that's what they had
Me Artic for demonic, that was kind of like an abbreviated short hand, more vulgar version of hieroglyphic
yeah and in between that was. The higher attic well was slightly more come
hated than demonic, but less complicated and not sacred, like hieroglyphics. Yeah was a kind of a transition between domestic and higher gothic. Yeah is personal right, so you can see you could use a higher attic for like a business transactions. But if you are saying the king is a very righteous ruler in you mentioned the gods. You're gonna use hieroglyphics that's right, so to have it written in Greek, demonic, which has an offshoot of higher attic, which is an offshoot of higher cliff exists and arm, hieroglyphics these priest that gathering issued this decree that was written on the result of stone. There made sure that everyone in Egypt, whose literate- yes, it read this one way or another
yeah no sort of is not a stroke of luck. I mean it was too smart thinking at the time, but ended up being a stroke of luck as the three languages I mean. Without that, I don't think we we may have never been able to figure out, hieroglyphics no agreed and I've been lost forever. Exactly and that's that's not the
way that the result of stone was kind of a bit of fortune by arm. So the reason that it was lost was up until the fourth century, a d. Now any average gypsy could have read the result. Is that one way or another? Yet? But after that, the Egypt, it left the foreign exchange
yeah Cleopatra was the last fare of Egypt, and then it came to be ruled by the Greeks later on the Romans the taller might come in a bunch of different foreigners or different groups, and with these groups came the introduction of new gods and the suppression of all gods, and since higher glistened were very much religious yeah nature, their sacred are wholly but associated with those or gods. Her glistened itself came to be cut off, stop suppress the especially Christianity, the tentative wanna get rid of
competing gods and languages that are tied to those gods throat. But luckily we still had demonic. That's right and dramatic wasn't taboo. That eventually became what's known as coptic and Coptic used, so
Greek and then a little bit of us still of the hieroglyphic symbols. So there still exists is just a little very tenuous link between Coptic in hieroglyphics. But then Coptic is lost its pushed out by arabic, yen, and that was like way gone. Goodbye hieroglyphics debts
Those like the hieroglyphics, is no longer understood by anyone walking planet earth near, and that means that all of the ancient egyptian civilization itself was lost a thousand years aside from its structures, the the thought put into it
sitting behind it all the explanations, all the inscriptions. All writing all over these ancient buildings are understood by no one now and then, as a result of that, the buildings themselves, the last vestiges of this ancient civilization, are deconstructed
and used for the next wave by a new rulers, and so ancient egyptian cultures lost too to the mists of time. Yet. Well, thanks
in fact it. Yet there was no love lost, they were basically like. We don't need this language anymore. We don't need the sacred buildings anymore
their pagan anywhere else, terrible down, build up new ones and oddly the Rosetta stone was actually use as a buttress in a wall of a new building. Yes, so part of that
stretching right. That's how this is another way that this is all the stroke of luck, as it goes lots of the first stroke of luck, as you pointed out, is that they just happened. A decree that this thing be written in three languages, the same message in three languages, then it's used for a building a wall,
Then it happens to be discovered by some French who are marooned in Egypt because they got crushed by the british right when they tried to invade yeah. Guess was talk about that, for the french thought pay we needed. We need to get a stronghold on India eventually and the points that I think
the way to do that is to start a little further away and lets say Egypt, let's cut off the the Brits access to the now river and not really help our cause, unfortunately, the Brits at a great navy and pretty much destroyed all their ships in stranded them in Egypt for what nineteen years yet, and so for the French, whose ships were now at the bottom of Abu Keer Bay, very decided that they really can I needed to set themselves
to creating forts yeah like sets were here right and it wasn't a military that was their part of this invasion. This strategy that Napoleon had come up with to take over Egypt was kind of hearts and minds strategy too, and so he created something called the Institute of Egypt, also known as the scientific and artistic
mineralogy mathematicians art historian, lot engineer chemists. All like all these people from the letters and sciences brought together to understand in study
Egypt, yet there actually give a military rank, but they weren't. I think that was just moreover here. Just so we'll call you military right, like they, they weren't for military background
so they're thinkers, but they were among this invading force yeah that was left stranded in France so as to the real military guys revealing the fort. The people from is to Egypt starts studying Egypt, yet I guess you're the first Egyptologists each year, a boy
Of course, they definitely were in those very covert operation.
They weren't really want to talk about what they were doing that much except to say, hey, we're following Napoleon's orders acting on behalf of the good of the French Republic right. That's what we're doing don't ask any questions here. That's don't ask: why have this measuring tape out or wine transcribing things from the pirates, but they did, they dig become, I guess, embedded with the local population as well, help learn as much as they could, and so it's under this climate that french soldier one day finds this very polished black stone. That's inscribed and something about its told him. No was pretty important, so he took it to these early Egyptologists, the French and said you guys think this is important and they said yes, yes, that was Lieutenant Pierre Francois Bouchard and he took his boss in them. They said. Okay. This is weird that this is built into a wall but its clearly something of
May we should take a closer look at it and immediately they start to get to work on on trying to transcribe it super difficult at the time they would prove to be difficult over the years. It eventually ended up in the hands of England, of course, but luckily these the Institute of Egypt people made copies of it. Yet I think they're like etchings are out and the plaster Malden thing, I'm sure yeah, but they had readable copies of the Rosetta stone so when they did give it up to the British, it wasn't entirely lost them, that's right and give it up as in not here have this. It was more like here we're taking this in the treaty of Alexandria. We're gonna take this in a bunch of other stuff. So now, basically you have the French
and the british both have the Rosetta stone. The one group that doesn't are the Egyptians bogus that later hello step, you should know listeners. Do you want a new year's resolution? That's easy to keep yes resolve to help
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Hurry glass, which people have tried to understand, is not new. Now people going back to a fellow named horror, polo who was a fifth century scholar, supposedly he may not have actually existed. He created. Basically, what was a translation for higher glass ex right, but it was of a false translation, as will see, but you know dating back basically from the moment that higher glistened were lost to history. People have tried to understand them. So these this this was the british in the French, were aware of this
This may be the key to these mysterious hieroglyphics, and this is important, so we're gonna try to translate it yet well became a race really because they didn't like each other very much, and they both wanted to be the first ones to figure out what these hieroglyphics meant and how to
unlock this history and dumb, so they set their best in their brightest.
English side, the british side Scour named Thomas Young,
And then, on the french side we had Jean Francois Shampooer, who are
He was sort of born to do this. Apparently he was way in the Egypt as a kid, even and as a young,
I said, I'm gonna under the figure highroad with its one day yeah. He was even called the Egyptian because he had dark skin and dark hair, and am, I think, a magician like foretold his fame one day here when he was born. Supposedly actions in this case can be famous and that any was an dumb idea. He was
talented linguist. He studied under a guy named Sylvester, discussing yeah entwine Isaacs of history to suddenly he am who would take a crack at the rose at a stone, but he trained is shamefully on. Is that our thing? It yeah sure he trained him, but she polio, be quickly became, went from student to Master he applied for he applied to be a student at an institute in Paris, and they were impressed enough for this application that they said to skip the school part and combine the faculty at this pretty good. Yet that's a talented linguist. Yet it's the same thing when applied to Georgia that right that you just want to go and be an english teacher, yeah I'll. Really you turned down.
Sure I want to be stood I'll gotcha. So before this happens, we have the greek inscription transcribed, which there was Reverend Stephen Watson in eighteen, oh two and I want to say it was no big deal, but there were quite a few people that could have done this. It wasn't like unlocking hieroglyphics now, but it was a necessary part of the process right. So you want to give him his do. So we have a. We have a translation and accurate translation of what the the great over stone says exactly so that step one, and if you have one translated in if you're linguist, I guess I'm his house really difficult to do it. I mean it's. I can imagine the painstaking.
The process of figuring out an alphabet, Yemen and think about how hard it is to translate of well known language language that you speak. Imagine translating language. It's totally lost into something understandable.
So we had the Greek and then eventually we had the dramatic as well yeah, thanks to
on and on and that same year at the same time-
diplomat named, occur, Ballade also translated. The dramatic enables went about two different ways other this is pretty interesting. Yes, so the saucy figured out that there were two proper names, at least in their Ptolemy and Alexander, and he used those two men of sounds and symbols occur. Blood probably had the bigger breakthrough yeah. He used a different technic. He recognized that there was something similar between domestic and coptic, yet he was well scolding. Coptic right helped, obviously, yet that there was his big breakthrough. He he figured out what words felled love Temple in Greek, any use that
the form. Basically, this rough structure for demonic, based on his awareness of Coptic yeah. That's only eleven letters, it's pretty impressive young, but I mean, if you got eleven letters at a decent, think they call it a skeletal outline right. I guess it's. What you'd have more Europe means, especially since Coptic was only what twenty two plus a couple more from hieroglyphics yet like a big wheel, a fortune game. Yes to that right. So the thing is, though, this established connection now between Coptic in dramatic and then demonic and hieroglyphic
side by side that kind of opened up this mentality that would be needed to finally crack the hieroglyphics further for the result is done and Thomas Young was the first to really try it. He was the british guy and he guy somewhat
but he gave up yeah here in eighteen fourteen, his big breaks through was figuring out what a cartouche was yeah
That is its they say over, but it's a little more squared away with round edges, but it's a loop basically with hard with the characters in it, and he figured out that these are not only proper names
royal names you anything in pain and contained in a cartoon, is a royal name which was big breakthrough because he identified Ptolemy the Faroes name in one of the cart cartouches cartouche J
cartesian producers and his queen.
Nigger was in. There is well sir, he said you know it again. I've got these two names now to work with them, but he was still working on her up allows false premise that hieroglyphics was not phonetic in nature and that was based on symbols right, that's what her uploads big contribution was to confuse.
Trees worth of scholars up every young because he was onto something in it. He wouldn't even at the failure of not fake, but just the poor system than he might affect it out right. So this is the thing like everyone believed her upload, because for uploading claimed that his translation was a direct translation from higher living. It was written in the fifth century, a d right around the time we lost hired with it. So it was considered to be a primary source and basically completely reasonable yeah, but it was wrong. It was wrong because it said that
Legal effects are symbolic so like, if you see a cart, a picture that looks like a cart next to a cat and then a lizard. What that should say under her upload translation is cart. Cat lizard.
This kept throwing everybody off because it didn't make sensitive rashly right, especially when compared to the greek translation in the translation of demonic. They didn't make any sense whatsoever. So, like you said, young gave up buddy published his findings.
And you can really strongly make a case that, had it not been for young breakthrough, sham pollyanna would not have cracked the resistance now, which we should mention here that like they should just accept each other as as co workers and colleagues and get along, but there was a competition that existed this day of who, what country
claims that they translated the Rosetta stone? The French still say that she empire was really the one. The Brits obviously say now. Really young
and even when they dissuaded and nineteen seventy two, the when the few times is left England or maybe the only time they let France displayed for like a year. They argued about the size of the photos of the two on both sides of it when in fact, the photos with the same size of young and Jim Polio, they're not photos, but the Portress portraits yeah yeah. But the French were like one now young.
Bigger the Brits like now. His is bigger right and they are the same size, so they were really just they never came to a common ground on who did it were infected
that- and there were rumours apparently during that time, that France is going to steal the Rosetta stone and keep it turned back to England. This isn't snacking seventies. It s not like a London
right so shamefully and picked up in eighteen fourteen where young left off and start to think you know what I need to think more about this. This symbol
that hurrah below. I got enough you he was on base after all, and that was actually the breakthrough. He arm he got some old cartouches and he figured out
that the last two letters and one of them were identical. So that's a good thing, because you know that it's the same letter he figured out that it was,
there s and then the first character was circle. Any said. Maybe that's the sun rise in an ancient Egypt, the sun, God was raw inking Coptic yeah in so basically figured out that that name was Ramses yeah. That was a huge breakthrough. He figured out the identical
so ass to where asses first was raw. Ensigncy knew that it was in a cartouche that it was a royal name it from there.
The only person it could have been was Ramsay. So that's how he crack the code like he sat there and cracked it in like hey. This is a fanatic thing. He was wrong the whole time and apparently he fainted on the spot here, which is dramatic becoming too he was rich sure, I'm so out.
That moment, Egyptology was fully born like now. We had away to understand all the stuff that hadn't been destroyed and values is building material. Stick a long time wasn't like they could just read. It is still too
Lot of translating oh yeah over has a basis exactly the owl they done is transcribe one Single Stella, the head millennium, worth things like pyrrhus, isn't reply, airy
in filling inscriptions and sarcophagus and all love letters, whatever you sure and so Egyptologists born and now. That is understood at that moment. There is also a great desire to protect Egypt in all of its treasure.
Yeah and get things right because previous to that Napoleon and gang did a pretty good job. They also speculated Alot yak, as he couldn't red hieroglyphs. Yes, they ended up correcting a lot of things about what
odd about Egypt and dumb, like you said, we want to protect things because Egypt at the time was,
have you never sell in these things off the collectors left and right, because aid
other true value and beat it was there was a market for it to do
there is a growing the middle ages, who were just big dummies would use mummies from Egypt. They grind it up and use the cure disease which didn't work, and so there is a move to protect education, antiquities on a gypsy is there. We have ended his patriarch mentality, especially among the British, that we need to get everything out of Egypt and in the museum in India, but like the hands of us who will preserve them and not sell them. The middle age or middle middle ages. Doctors, yeah for carers,
but to his credit, in my opinion, shamefully on, argued very strongly in favour of keeping them in a founding a museum in Egypt to store these keeping them in Egypt. Ya think he was a little bit of a control freak like he knew tat. He could care for things in the proper way and he'd be trusted even other museums, that the time to care for things in the right way and he's gonna write. There's a lot of it was destroyed, yellow apparently
preserve and ancient papayas, you have to store it in a low humidity area in a chamber, Bambi Box Container and they didn't notice and they ship them by sea to the UK and the old, like crumbled, nothingness on the way to me,
so there was Edison still sits in the museum in London where it's been since eighteen or to accept for the time it went to France. Briefly in two thousand three Egypt, like you know what I want this thing back, not I we want this thing back and it's ours,
and I don't care who found it. It's ours and England said in two thousand five too can two years to build a replica and say a word about this. This is just like it. I guess at least it into an impasse. It offers the real well yet mister
the cinema replica there like. I appreciate this is nice, but we really would like the real thing and England said no, and not just England, but
a lot of the big museums, the Louvre,
and I M a bunch of the world museums kind of all got together in support of one another.
And said you know what repaid repatriation is were not into it. Where does not gonna get things back anymore because we can care for it. Best belongs to the world now, and they just sort of banded together and said, were keeping our stuff crazy.
In that sense, I think words, propaganda state that they are trying to get it, for, I think, two thousand twelve. They try to get it for the grand opening of the grand Egypt museum. Suddenly it didn't happen, but even in they said now, they want to fill it three weeks and is it not under the guise of one of its guys, but they said to be too dangerous to transport. It that's the story. They have at least so that sir, how museums work pillage and deny
And then I ll do anything else number there is the Rosetta stone everybody. If you want to learn more about it, you should take the word. Those words are o s. Eating a stone in the search bar has to work and will bring up this article, and since I search bar
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I propose that you don't know this is at the point where we read of the people who were nice enough to send us little gifts and trinkets and music and letters and all sorts of things and dumb he would go. I Sarah sinister Muckle Graphic Prince one of which was you can't take the sky from me from love one another. We chose Firefly every corporate Amy, Seneca lovely carved wooden cicada from timber Green woods, yet vehicle
I M gonna send us a sleepy postcard, handwritten mutter thanks list from New Zealand sent us a lot of stuff: that's New Zealand, Candy, New Zealand, chocolates, new and ships, Sir for postcard, really lovely frame photos from her dad Rudy Goldstein Photography, it's on Facebook. It's our Goldstein Photography,
check it out? Yes, work. I have those are my desk John Antonia cynicism, custom finals, some speakers from eight one, one graphics, that communist brother did not have this company cool stuff, like skaters thousand break down by costumes, dot com at b you why costumes dot com cynicism?
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prescription hand upon my shoulders cat Tb Megan sent a cat teepee. My way as I have two cats
My big boy, neuron, gets an analogous spirit, tenth
hangs out there and it's pretty need a means. What you'd think it's like a little small tv for your getting those very cute? So if you have a care
I would suggest you buying one c: Susan sent you a birthday card. Is a dog drinking beer, Callum Clarkson, Isn, T shirts
and he is a handyman in Brooklyn and he gifted us two hours of any man work to give to someone we know in book in Brooklyn does very really cool, so I've actually texted our body german desert in any work done with two reactors, handyman work. So if your Brooklyn, you can go to not just handyman that come and give Kalama help fixtures incurred, do whatever you need around the house, I get. What's he gonna differ job. I don't know Jordan respond at what we gotta Hodgman next. I guess it is what we are waiting with other hotline,
an affordable people? We should give it that, like all figured out, ply fancy gave us some really cool Panama Canal, Postcards Rachel from Goober. Have you heard it? Uber said, sir? We're like a taxicab service. Now, oh yeah, but it's town, cars made an avenue can make say just come. Get me now right, yeah, whom you saw me my dear. They send us over gift cards and I was in your gift code for us off like a hundred bucks in flowers vessel last somebody's
the airport debris here at the christian current has been taking us along with her on a tour of Europe. It seems like me, I got postcards from her from Edinburgh brutish Amsterdam, Slovakia, Berlin, all over the place,
thanks for that, we also get something from thread was sought, design, T shirt, bigfoot cradling, an alien Loch Ness monster is in the back of the other, was also like a man in black and an abduction going on.
Of course I mean here, neuron sent the wives and jewelry and you can visit her store. Thank you very much care, caribou classic start at sea that come. So that's! That's are administrative details for your part, one why the party, I guess a minute's episode. Yes, we were, there will cover music in books. I, if you want again touch of this, you can treat to us at ass white, ass, cave podcast. You can join us on Facebook account
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Transcript generated on 2020-01-17.