The future of phone service is here and it's called visible for forty bucks a month. All in you get unlimited data messages and minutes on Verizon's forty LP network, visible d, do annual contracts and unlimited data means unlimited. They also to have physical fund source. So you have to deal with annoying sales. People. Are you ready to learn more switch divisible? Then head divisible, dotcom slashed stuff to get twenty dollars off your first month of service. That's visible that come slush stuff at IBM. Problems inspire us to push the world forward. That's why so many people work with us on everything from city traffic to ocean plastic. Smart, gloves problems IBM, let's put smart to work, visit, IBM dot com, slash Smart, to learn, more hither ruined. It's me Josh, and for this week's S worst case works chosen. Can we treat mental illness with psychedelic spoiler alert? They answer is a big big, yes,

is one of those neat pieces of history where things just kind of fell out a place for something important and it we also have the rare luxury of seeing where it went wrong and exactly who was responsible so enjoy this really interesting episode of stuff. You should know Welcome to step you should now, a production of Iheart radios have stuff works, would unwelcome podcast, Josh Clark, there's Charles Cheech Brian each year ban. I wanted to start this one out like a twelve year old. That's what I'm going to have your old on acid, maybe maybe, which has happened before in France, actually really thinks you're old friends, the CIA of the dust, kids, they just a whole town to see what would happen in one kid

he met his grandmother inside the strangler. Really can't remember the name of the town I can log. Are you fucking know? People were like shown up at the hospital right there. A lot of it was funny that, like all these nineteen, fifty french user rights are losing their stuff. No apparent reason right right, but you know the the suicides that resulted yet not from that not very funny before we get started. I think we should do like an official see away for this one. I think this is a very good idea, because what Josh and are about to talk about are illegal drugs, but we must find it fascinating that they used to be used for things in their starting to be used again in certain scientific research labs, for they think it is extremely fascinating riches, while we're talking about exactly I give this could be a follow up to our r m K, ultra cats. It's a follow up and it's an epilogue and prolong yes, yes,

very nice, because we cannot came into the other see a Ellis De Am K, alter podcast like right in the middle of the history of L, s deep, lay out well, we toward the beginning, but one of the things after nineteen forty three, when not Albert Hoffman right? Yes, the chemist to created LSD, LSD, twenty five try to use this twenty. Fifth attempt and tried it on himself intravenous Lee as I understand it injected it. We always says it first. He took it by mistake, exists the blood thinner and then he took it for yeah, I'm forever that first bike ride home is like cattle some more than a red is quote, please. I became aware

of the wonder of creation, the magnificence of nature, yes, secrete Doktor Hoffman, and he was just some swiss guy named chemist. He was at the first person to come up with a synthetic loosened, Jim Baron, nineteen fourteen, a German, can to work for Merk, the pharmaceutical company came up with empty Amy, better known as ecstasy that for backup and here's a tip for each other's any time. According to the Associated Press, you write about a designer drugs in user base, designer name capitalize. So ecstasy is always capitalized. The word ecstasy when you're talking about the the drug. Yes, I will share, and not just the before feeling you get from life. That's different! Yes, this lower!

but it should be all caps. Yeah sure I was nineteen fourteen India May was created crazy and it was um. I guess it served as a it's, not a catalyst cause. I think it's change, but it was to be used in the synthesis of other chemicals and a kind of sat on the cells for a little while until somebody along the way and then I wonder what would happen if I take this stuff here and they did and the CIA again looked at it wanted to see what it can do past it up and a guy by the name of Alexander Shoguns. Yes, he's Adele Chemist in a nineteen. Seventy eight at the age of seventy four he published a study on the euphoric effects of India May was the first time anyone had ever published a study. What year, nineteen seventy eight, but he was seventy four and he first noticed the euphoric facts because he liked to take it and got a cocktail.

Parties courses at her, so he's like hey man, this stuff is the bomb and here's my study on it here that my findings and, let's everybody, start taking a sweet. He starts given to his friends, including some psychiatry. Did he give up pacified not yet that's. Coming, though, is a very, very close nineteen. Seventy eight pest fires came about nineteen. Eighty, eight, ok, so children give some to a friend who's, a psychiatrist right psychiatrist, some of the more avant garde, psychiatry treasure start giving it to their patience and they called Adam for a little while, for while this is not being used by established psychiatrists, a mysterious financier in Dallas Texas find out about the stuff inserts. Take. Hires an underground chemist and has it made himself and then start selling

it, clubs, all over Dallas, and so this answer, this illicit use of this substance simultaneous to it of emergency and the club seen rat in about the mid eighties, led to the LAW of India me or get into more bite, the point is to this very long and rambling interim both of these drugs and others word legal. At one time, nature were put to good use beneficial. You and then outlawed, possibly unfairly and they now we're starting to see them come back into use, hallucinogens being used to treat mental illness and mental harm in legitimate circles. Very legitimate, quick question was that Dallas person was at cowboys owner Jerry I don't know, I don't think anybody knows everything still gotta start, maybe Pope

On donor, to begin with, so, document in the sea. I do want to point out. It wasn't just the Americans, the CAN in government in british Britishers works and am I six also experimented with LSD and between nineteen fifty and sixty five. Forty thousand people all over the world had been treated with LSD and and treatments. Yeah Cary Grant yeah can we go back to Hollywood in the nineteen, but yours is nineteen. Fifty, so a couple a guy set up shop, Arthur Chandler, Mozilla, Guy's name, o, Hartman Hartman, Mortimer Hartman, who was radiologist, took ass Hartman. Instead, you knowing and getting psychiatry these guys set up a shop all the Psychiatric Institute, a Beverly Hills right, the Middle Beverly Hills- and this is

can the day when things were clean living going on aside from the rampant alcoholism, cigarettes being smoked adultery, probably its America going on here there, but I was among the hop heads yeah exactly so. He that's up a couple. A rooms with a couch in starts booking patients at a rate of like six or eight hours, assessed yeah, depending on what was going on with the person. In five days a week there were book solid hundred bucks, a pop honey, which is a lot of money back there sure I guess that included the drugs for example, the time that you were there right now, so they would with you, they'll give you some blinders to block out distractions, and then you would go to sort of like the more meditative sort of acid trip. Essentially, you were just ribbon hard they would cause. You were on pharmaceutical great LSD produced by the Sandoz company, yeah we're talkin.

Alice, Huxley novelist and actually he died Tribune. Did you know that really yeah? He was here them throat cancer. I think and the last thing you ever wrote was a note to his wife requesting as such and such milligrams of Alice, dear Micrograms of L estate injected, inter muscular interim muscularly really, and that was about six hours before he died. So he died Turpin an artful dead record that was his last request. Before the grateful there remained shocking, screenwriter screenwriter Charles Bracket took it directly said the LE met as it Le Mayor limit. I lament, I think I was of a maybe to think I'm wrong. He took it. A few times went through sessions, call a wonderful. He re experiences on board we merely people they never that I haven't even and Clare booth. Loose was a player.

Married to Time Magazine publisher Henry Loose. She was also an ambassador, possibly an agent for the, U S, government and they too good both took acid so much the Henry Loose in Time magazine said when you to write about this. This is awesome. Yeah, there's a lot of good press that I magazine gave LSD in the fifties as a basically a cure, all end again. Cary grant get into a big time. Apparently he had like at least a hundred trips. I believe yeah. He was yellow sock about him for second, because he was one of these guys that carefully constructed his persona. You are very high it. Apparently he he was that the the line here gave was a lot of people Wanna be Cary, grant Non one of em indicating that this suave, Mr Kohl per cent-

it was completely fabricating created by himself, so he could get. You know the fame and everything but deep down he suffered as a human. Until he started taking ass it right and then he had dumb while he had some pretty interesting revelations, one of which I read one in that somebody thought to write down the stuff that he some of the insights he had some kind of deep others were like. If I have to look at a man, he should be required to pay to come, his hair brush his teeth and where a clean shirt thousand acid revelation. Yes, it was interesting. So it can. I ran the gamut but yeah he he became a reeled Dave, o t love Ellen. The Ex wife do yeah that's an dumb while she got enter. I think so, who wrote that were part of this were basing this

on a vanity fair article has really mad article yeah, oh, is called they're carrying the sky with diamonds yeah a but he was a huge advocate for LSD. He wasn't the only one, but he lived to see it outlawed and public sentiment turn against it night. Yes, it's like India me till the cyber magic, mushrooms and part of the world. Really one of the you could say that Timothy Leary, almost syn. Handedly led to the tremendous suffering of a lot of people who might otherwise have been helped by El Estate, IRAN with his his naive bravado yeah of you know the establishment needs to get over. It hang ups and we should all take ass. It yeah whether or not you agree that that's a good idea. It's a stupid thing to say Sir Leon. He was originally a Harvard psychiatry straight yes, and he started taking, I think, mushrooms and then eventually started taking LSD,

and was fired from Harvard because it turned into a hippie. And dumb that was pretty much the begins and availability. Yet they may have continued to use lsd as treatment for mental patients mental illness into Russian, if not for Timothy Leary, who was trying to spread the word about acid. That's right back to Cary, grant real quick was so Intuit Josh. He had couple of stories written about him and nineteen. Fifty nine in look magazine. The curious story behind the New Cary Grant gave a glow account of LSD, and then this is the best the following year, the Good Housekeeping magazine it got the good housekeeping seal of approval in the nineteen sixty issue and they called it. The secret of grant second youth. I wanna get a copy that magazine. How awesome would that be yet, and that's kind of like the theme of this podcast is so weird that these things were considered

Incredibly, wonderful am benign, and now, they're they're, just viewed as too so there evil in their outlawed amply because they were made illegal right, prohibited right and again There is kind of a movement toward saying hey, you know. Maybe Timothy Leary did give this. A bad name may be that that underground, chemist in Dallas really kind of put a terrible swear on this, and we should look at these again scandal, more store. Yes from Hollywood of the nineteen sixty yes, Esther Williams, famous diva actress from the indian studio friend of carry grants called Cary Grant up these articles and said Hake any introduce me to your doktor doktor Hartman. He did so time she was aging, just had gone through a divorce. Her husband left her with huge debt with IRS and she was

he'll struggling with the death of her sixteen year old brother. She doesn't the office, she takes acid Does her session goes home to her parents? Still on acid, dinner with them and then go into the bathroom mirror says good night to apparent. Looks in the mirror, agony read this quote: I was startled by split image. One half of my face, the right half was me. The other half was the face of a sixteen year old boy The left side of my upper body was flat and muscular. I reached up, with my boys hand to touch my right breast and felt my penis stirring. It was a hermaphroditic fantasy and I understood perfectly in that moment when my their died. I took him into my life so completely, he became part of me

but a huge thing they understand, pretty jarring waited come to terms with their yeah. But that's what they're finding out now, though, is that these people are having these breakthroughs in the throes of their final days of what's a cancer, and they have these epiphany. A friends, we want to talk to you about the future of phone service because it is here and it's called visible yet for forty bucks month. All in you get unlimited data messages and minutes on, since forty LP network and visible doesn't do annual contracts. They also do do shady hidden fees or foot long foam bills either when they say forty bucks a month. They mean three bucks a month yet and when they say unlimited data. That means unlimited data. They also don't have physical phone stores

That means no waiting a minds are dealing with annoying salespeople with visible. You can sign up by a new phone or bring your own device get help. That's a tap away the chat text or tweet and get better phone service all from their app

website without ever leaving her couch. Yet so are you ready to or more switch divisible, then head divisible, thy com, slash stuff and get twenty dollars off your first month of service and exclusive special offer just for stuff, you should know listeners, that's visible. Dot com, slash stuff situated on the beautiful table beach by Hamas, is a spectacular new resort destination in the Bahamas. With your choice of three ocean front hotels, the grand high it s less rosewood. This is the place to find your perfect lending luxury relaxation and a lot of fun whatever you're looking for you can find it at Baja, MAR the Bahamas most exciting, culinary destination. The resort is home to over forty restaurants, bars and lounges, ranging from casual, waterside, uterus too high end shaft, driven dining experiences. Eleven glorious landscape pools, acres of prestige each front,

and a soothing esper spot offer endless relaxation, while guess fine, thrills Obama Casino in a ray of high energy nights bought and at the royal blew the most acquaint new offers in the kid just a short flight from the. U S and fifty minutes drive from the airport by Hamas is an easy get away any time of the year. The book your next vacation at one of the results, three iconic hotels and tools- We're winters vessels, including up to thirty five percent savings on your stay. Yes, thirty five percent visit, Baja Marduk, that's by Hamas gotta, be a h m, may are dot com,

so LSD is outlawed were following timeline here. Here, yes, was these outlawed? In I think, sixty five, something like that at the very at the latest. Ninety seventy, yet shut down the shop in Beverly, Hills, yeah and Sandoz stopped making it an actor, It was a lot and pushed underground. And they may made it until nineteen. Eighty five An empty amaze story is linked very closely to a guy named Doktor George require tee. Who is Johns Hopkins researcher? This floored me so in nineteen? Eighty five about the time, the d A is reeling from being totally unaware by the crack epidemic. Yet, basically, a lot of people think looking for a whipping post, sure

then they start considering outlawing India made. At that moment, this guy Doktor George Recorder publishes a study that he says this drug deplete yourself. Hunting levels permanently yeah, causing brain damage right. It can kill you yeah well now adding that closer later. Ok, so this guy who is unknown at the time publishes? The study starts to get National Institute of Drug abuse funding. So basically, this is his job. He starts a career, creating scientific evidence yeah in favour of banning drugs leads to the outlaw of amnesia may right. Yes, that was quite enough. They they scheduled it the the feds winter her and the may even harder in two thousand to they came up with this thing, called rave ACT, that's ok! It's o! What is rave stand for the rich.

Using Americans vulnerability the ecstasy. I wonder how long they sat around looking at the word rave saying we gotta make it yeah, don't get the yes, so they re backed basically said if your a boner and somebody gets caught it taking ecstasy or has ecstasy your club we're going to shut down your club right. It was a huge huge law and it was all stirred by another. Another study by Doktor George recorded that found that he tested on ten monkeys. Yet this is the big one he injected them with India. Me a bunch of moment. Psychotic some of em showed early signs of Parkinson's sudden right in two of them died almost immediately after being injected. Yet so people started asking questions about this. They were. What are you talking about? People have been taking this drug forever and this is never

happen. Perhaps so they started kind of going after recording and they found out that he had actually injected em with methamphetamine, Maria reversing the mafiosi injected em cause people Reich, lay down inject ecstasy. So that's kind of a weird way to do it. And then they found out it was methamphetamines which he blamed on, labeling of drug shipment, which bade trace back, and they went they all right here. The jug providers like Tom Play, mossy folks, it's pretty clear. So this is by this time the rave act is already pastor and the raven get past, but something that included that right was passed by that time. The study

That record a produced was pretty, was published in science. The journal science, like that's, how I browse you get as far as I intervene journal right and finally, he gets beaten up enough that heap he prince of full retraction taking clean they'd science runs this retraction saying the hopes. The whole study than I produced right, forget it ever existed, but that didn't happen much. No, it doesn't that's very unusual, Yasser Corday, I get the impression is kind of this, though I just can't seems like this scientific community views him largely as a shill Gus. So yeah there's a couple of articles that he shows up. And on a reason in reason, magazines were taken out yet Nina the other interesting thing about the whole story about the big fake study he did with met a myth That means as ecstasy is it the Parkinson's foundation the people were Parkinson's researcher said I dont think that that's true

that doesn't make much sense to us either that they would show signs of Parkinson Rice or they looked into a people. One about reproducing study here, and the people who run the Parkinson's foundation actually issued a statement. Saying ecstasy does not do this yet so they they basically came out in favour of ecstasy. It's kind of need to watch from the outside, because there's this guy who's again can be viewed as a show the other government who'd beating up on this. That a lot of people who are also in the scientific community He'll is being unfairly outlawed currents of this kind of beating up on him in retaliation right, it's kind of neatness ie, eight heads beat up on one another in fights and that the idea when so far that the idea just gonna quietly pulled their effect sheet on ecstasies like was just take this down off the website. After them

tractor doesn't three little rewrite it. I'm sure it's back up now sure as something else, but it doesn't include immediate death and Parkinson's disease. I would imagine that's right, so Timothy Larry dies he get shot into space he's out of the picture entirely. Everybody gets sick, hippies generally yet George record? Is that basically, the guy who single handedly getting ecstasy outlawed his work comes into great great question, yes and start going back and looking at MIT may again, and they said looking at LSD again and that's where we find yourself right now, slowly, but surely people are starting to run studies on whether or not you can use these hallucinogens to treat mental illness in the results are pretty stoning actually yeah. You know where their leading the charge in Switzerland, in LOS Angeles, all these years later same place, yes, hippy freaks.

So yeah Josh. They are a thinking Switzerland solar thermal Switzerland? They have been experimenting with Ls De suicide and which might know his magic mushrooms, yes Ketamine, you might know special K. That can surprise me that that was in there ya the hadn't heard much about that one either. And they're. Getting these. These studies published in nature of use, neuroscience and other leading industry peer, reviewed publications, now under the table, backroom experiments- oh no, you're, very heavily overseen you have to very legitimate researcher. To get government approval. They're not funded, are still there's stay, say this time in a hard time with funding and there sir, looking to get some restrictions loosen. They're, not San, make other stuff legal right,

now battling legalization on the legalization front it all now, but what they want. The reason why so many people are kind of starting to put them reputations on the line is because big the results of their seeing. So we have anti depressants right yeah. They take weeks to kick in church. They have also decide effects her and what their wooden we're. Seeing in these studies now are that the these things like ketamine M. Dna lsd are having like a huge impact right out of the gate. Right. There's one study, that came out in July. I believe in it found it was a study of twelve people who were diagnosed have PTSD Post, traumatic, stress, disorder, yeah, that's one of the big ones, yeah, that's huge there. Looking at the that's where you it worlds. What will you say

Shell shock area, you you go through traumatic experience in you relive it over and over again in its debilitating. They found that of the twelve people in the study, ten of them. After going through the study, after taking India may no longer met the criteria to be diagnosed with PTSD afterward, ten of the twelve yet for my standing in most of these studies is it's not like. You have to stay on ecstasy, your whole life, like a lot of people, have these opinions and they quit taking it and they had to change their outlook in their right. Yet that's me and I'm getting to Ketamine apparently is good for depression. In the same way, just a very tiny dose- I can get you over severe clinical, the pressure that the results, the early results we should say yet in everything from quitting smoking you suicidal far yet cluster headaches, yeah

are studying those are migrants from men right what they call. My misery migrated think sign there's a debilitating that you consider suicide or Nina. Not everyone does obviously but sure it's just this awful awful pain. You can't leave your house, you get to sit in a dark room. So it's helping there and what I thought was interesting. Johns Hopkins, you might have heard them sure reputable institutional recorders from was it. They didn't experiment where they gave so aside and to the mostly stable individuals like this wasn't even people are mentally ill people. That taken hallucinogens before it is interesting that you would be, I think, a sixty four year old that signed up for this. The asked Craig and they said it is twenty four to sixty four and they said the experiment. A year later, they said the experiences when the most meaningful and spiritual experiences of their entire lives and that those were mentally stable folks church- and this is a year on right- still have

employed the reward circuit in the brain right, which is how we become addicted to things right are flooded with open, mean member. It just affects the mood circuits and there Sir tone In- and we don't really have a very good grasp on Sarah tone in exactly how that works by we do know because they target serotonin in the brain. This is another reason why they're not addictive they. Don't they dont employ the reward circuit in the brain right, which is how we become addicted to things for are flooded with dopamine member. It just affects the mood circuits in there serotonin and we don't really have a very good grasp on serotonin exactly how that works. But we do know that there's correlations between high levels of sir tone in bright or low levels of Sarah tone. It and depression right right, and we know that using anti depressants, which block the real take serotonin reduces symptoms of clinical depression and people. So we know that sir tones

somewhere. Yet we know that the more certainty have the better, generally or low certain and by and right right, and then we also know that hallucinogens target this. Somehow that's pretty much where that research stands right oh yeah makes you wonder: where would we be if Ellis in India may hadn't been in the wilderness feel ass few decades, while yeah they may have a pill like a low dose pill. These studies, just so you know Back Cary, grant state him in its full involvement, as it should But a lot of these, like the suicide and pills they'll, give you be very low dose. So I don't. I get the feeling that it's not like this huge. Mushroom trip that allowed these patients are gone through because it said like eighty percent of the people

recognised when they did not have the placebo. So if it was a hundred percent than it was probably a pretty low dose, yes, but you, my guess, would you if, if if everything was legalised and members may came to be prescribed for just happiness right, would you too Would you take a happy pill that was legal and didn't have side effects, not to say Andrea, made as an aside effects, there's a like. Basically the three he's after sure, depression that follows when your serotonin levels are re pleading themselves, I don't think I would because there are cordon quote happy pills now and I'm it's not like I'm against anti depressants are things like that is people definitely benefit from those who need them, but I just I don't need that kind of thing. So I would not

I would not, sir, you are not alone chuck. There is a survey conducted for this BBC Series on Britain of british people are that found that seventy nine percent of them said that they not take a happy pill. Riot was legal and had no side effects is interesting, yeah because it kind of, I think that, for a large segment of the population, that is the idea of synthesizing happiness is untoward yeah. You know it's weird, I mean that's, not the same a square, and I don't like to get down Another aspect Josh and me we're we're talkin right now about literally the effect it has on your brain in your serotonin levels. In your moods right, they ve all I found that patients cancer patients in particular, who can SAM Hallucinogens or people with just dramatic events from earlier in their life. They have the ability

to relive some of these memories and events from their past. They can unlock buried, traumatic episodes deal with them, psychologically put them resin and come out the other side, with a new understanding free from these demons right. Remember, member whom, in the hypnosis episode, where were you talking about how Wade's viewed now, is that you, you are it's your accessing. The subconscious easier more easily popping open a control panel. That's what this is this. What Seeing with India may apparently you

are able to access things from a very empathetic way. I think that the term of heard for it is called a psychotherapeutic catalyst, he's a chick, starts right things and I think one researchers called it. It's psychotherapy sped up. He had occasion to call the yeah psychotherapy on acid hides the heard this just in its officially fall, and that means a lot of things to a lot of people. The leaves are changing, collars time to break out the pumpkins break out the foot by most importantly, break out the truly hard seltzer truly has only one hundred calories, but has five percent a bee v in only one gram of

your container if the cat missed regular season so pick up truly hard seltzer today truly drink. What you truly want- hey miles. Aids me jack rain here here right next year by next to me, just like a work, hey one join with you to tell people too tune in to a very special episode special year of tedious that is, I guess this is actually look. I know you saw the social media Zaza, the Ellie Otto. She said what are these two juggernaut supplied casting doing there when Mazda cause me ever they say miles. We know that you're, a loyal, Mazda owner. We want to align with you because you get it yeah. You know what I am willing to answer the call and help Ding Ding help people understand the power of it. So what we did is we actually got to record of special episode inside the new Mazda six. Thirty,

where we talked about kind of like flow states and was feeling alive and how we feel alive? What makes us feel like it was really doped actually record inside the car. I got to press a lot of buttons and make them mad, because you like, please don't fumble around in here set out in it out. I like to explore. Nonetheless, if you actually want to check out the first ever see Ex thirty check it out at Moscow, USA, DOT, com, slash, Iheart or, if you're, trying to check it up. I already them pull up to the local dealership today, Lsd specific he hasn't been the greatest friend to everybody, who's ever taken it. Yes, your funny and in this article that it's on the site can we treat mental illness with Hallucinogens Tom XIV. Your body has to go to the sixty psychedelic rock seen, findings for other people who had a bad van time on

ass. It apparently, what would the conventional wisdom is? If you, are predisposed to mental illness. Lsd can exacerbate that. If you, bad trip, you're going to have a really really bad trip, because you're already predisposed mental illness, Brian Wilson instead bear it as the two in airports and those are stellar examples. They really. I gotta say that there also counter to due to what we are seeing with like PTSD. You are already suffering from a mental illness, so here's some m dna right, probably lsd, would be horrible to give to a piteous De Cheshire virus yeah right outside. So and what else Chuck can we talk about PAMELA, secure sure, yeah. Very interesting ray. This is a woman age. Fifty seven, at the time of this article who in the final stages of colon cancer, she'd, outlived or prognosis. She was anxious and

press she was worried about her family husband and what they were going to do without her. It was not a good life. She was here at the end, and she was prescribed anti depressants, of course, deaden work. Do a thing for so she volunteered for an experiment. At you see, I lay in two thousand five and start taking so a the magic mushroom till right until form She had a lot of breakthroughs. They her husband in at the end of one of the sessions and he said, there's pay me. She was just beaming with light and seen her that joyous and so long. She was totally alive and happy and she continued to take it. Until she didn't need any more. She had these breakthroughs and then all of a sudden husband and PAMELA we're going to concerts, they went hiking at the Grand Canyon. They went on vacations. They did all these things that she had been doing.

Long time because of these epiphany she had under the influence of silver, Simon and, sadly, she died while she had cancer, yet she died and that's what she'd high from in two thousand six and her husband said she in his arms, but her husband was very appreciative, actually did a benefit about a week before she died for the institute. That was doing this work at you see away so pretty interesting, yeah, the definitely not one of the applications that their finding is end of life care therefore using em, the Emmy, LSD or so Simon sure or special K. Apparently what about this? I will their finding the Imo game works really well, I began is a its former hallucinatory route plant in Africa. I believe in their finding that you gonna thirty six, our trip? That's a long time, his time

but their finding that it's really effective and breaking addiction, unlike serious addictions too, like Heroin, Yang, cocaine so being on this stuff. Just for thirty six hours creates a break in the addiction cycle itself, sure, but what their finding this most notable about it is theirs lack of withdrawal symptoms that you see in every other type of crazy addiction, removal, yeah especially with heroin like heroin you're supposed to have physical, withdraw sent yet withdrawal symptoms and people who were take I will gain are not experiencing that like they would. If they tried to kick the habit without it is pretty remarkable yeah. It is very remark was very interesting. We should probably say I don't know if we have yet that with this part this is in no way an endorsement of going out and buying yourselves and street drugs. Intent Hannah

Seeing what happened. Did you study of what we find it be very fascinating? The fact that this is there's been a resurgence in us in these in a qualified doctors, you say, lay Johns Hopkins after saying we should look at the stuff and they definitely are in their getting some interesting result. What about the egg? I we should mention the Cliff House fleet funny. Oh yeah, Bill Wilson here, one of the co founders of a yeah he apparently took lsd in the fifties was it and this is after he was long after he was sober from alcohol. Yeah can, at any rate in the thirties, I think had yeah, so he he takes lsd in the fifties is like this is really helpful so I think everybody who comes into a taking Ellis Daily, they really need, should probably not do that talked amount of it, but the reason why he found it helpful when it is their hallucinogens part of a twelve. That programme is to really referred.

On past wrongdoings, yeah and then ill elucidate them right. To another human being and apparently, I still am there. May these other drugs help they serve as a catalyst for that process. So happened that that's why Bill Wilson thought this really helpful, because again, psychotherapy sped up fascinating, very fast, and I will say this so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say even though we're not saying oh, you should go out and do these things. I will say that some chemicals, created in a lab pill called an antidepressant, isn't a mean? What's the difference, the differences, I think, in my opinion, from what I've seen ones marketed in legal and the other is illegal. To simple is that one is made by mark and one is not made my mark but

immortal to make this right, which is public sentiment, counts for everything the same reason: the alcohol. You can go into a bar and get completely way out of your mind and get in the car. But you can't walk into a bar and smoke a joint or shoot Heroin or shoot heroin. And when I lobbying for gaining is just interesting that the things that society has deemed acceptable alcoholism is just fine whilst not just fine, but It's it's legal and you can do it even kills all these people This is not acceptable, since it's funny how we ve evolved to think something's are evil and some things are disgrace. I wonder what the future holds Josh. I wonder myself we'll find out. Yes, we were. We live that long. That is about it for this one you should probably check out. Can we treat mental illness with policing

and on the site be sure to check out carry in the sky with Diamonds Wright Vanity, fair article type in George, require t r. I see you a our key in the reasons website that will grant some cool stuff. Now, there's a killer time magazine article from I think, two thousand two thousand one on Ecstasy Annette DNA? It was that's really, it's called the happiness in a pill, I guess it's time now for a listener. May I yes I have a listener. Male Josh from russia- and this is about octopus or octopi- we're corrected the occupies an outright, but she says it: geography highest right. Well, we how's people say and actually the latin thing about remember traces like that

hi, guys you're podcast on octopi made my dated eight. Thank you. I work as an aquarium at San Francisco Aquarium and one of my favorite response, Billy's, as is our cephalopod gallery nice. I get to do enrichment with giant Pacific actor to make sure all of our eight legged friends stay out of trouble and am currently teaching a to spot Octopus how to open a jar to get his favorite food, which is life crabs right there with you, mister To put, it was great to hear someone besides myself get a little too excited about these critters near. We got great feedback on this people love documents, because the story about Lucretia Mc Evil, especially crack me up. I worked with GPA. Oh that's! The giant Pacific ACT upon that might give her run for money. For the past few weeks have been walking around with what my colleagues call Octopus kisses up the length of my arms, but am I

My husband is giving or suspicious about the number Vicky's ebbing acquiring. So that's from the little suckers will suckers clearly These were given to me. While I try to remove the individual from blocking the flow Who is tank and stop his flooding of the entire? Her quick. Never boring day with cephalopods and your life guys thanks for all the great podcast, if you ever in San Francisco, one of my favorite places Josh. Let me now and I'll see you can't work out some behind the scenes, cephalopod, goodness nice, and that is from Russia. And she says and don't worry by the way I have trouble pronouncing Hector catalysts as well, and in calling in the sperm technical, sperm technical works. Sperm is what she says. She says it's time to remain an organ. Yes, we'll thanks! Ria right! Yes, thank you. My dad always said life is better with cephalopods and really

you have a fantastic saying that your father mother grandfather, some old time in person, told you we want to hear it, wrap it up in an email then the bottom and then send it to stuff podcast at how stuff works. Dot com study should know is production, I hurt radios how stuff works from what had cast my heart radio. I hurt radio apple podcast or wherever listen to your favorite check. What is it that makes us human connects us? Now. Remember taxing my husband videos, I've heard saying I I found the perfect dog one of those moments that turn the ordinary into extraordinary and I thought and I just went that's my kid. Like he's mine I'm calling on both hosted the new podcast love? What matters presents your story which shares

he'll stories of love and compassion from real people all over the nation. Listen unsubscribe when I heard you apple podcast or wherever you wasn't upon guests,