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and other stuff. You should know podcast. The only information network is there's somebody for sporting through the spur another so check. It is cheap. You're still have you noticed? How often is a right, the it's mine, numbing first, Someone all right in and save generously right all the time and wars as arm returned. Eating hard candy Allison. I know that not the case you ve never eaten anything in here I can attest to that. The imo really Salvatore. Yes, Chuck. As you know, I was a student of anthropology. Yeah still consider myself site and I first came upon this term called carrying capacity when I was I took this life

anthropology class right. I don't remember the teachers name anymore, but he was also introduce me to follow my favorite article or essay of all time. The worst mistake in the history of the human race right by Jerry Diamond awesome, stuff anyway, just in time, but he might diamond by Jerry Diamond, gave a collapse in terms of steel and stuff. That's required in my opinion, I just think you should there s not necessarily book, but this that I was also introduced. The carrying capacity in this there is really cool. Video referred to Point across and it's a map of the world right and it's it's there's red dots which has population growth. Yeah am each red, daddy was, I think, in people, and so it starts out in Africa in Ethiopia. I believe in the cradle of humanity and starts there at all. You know

very slowly, there's a guy. It's time lapse, obviously here through the years go by like that and on like that doubts are appearing very slowly, sir moving out of Africa's spreading the Asia Europe all that, and then it starts to a pop up around North America and South America, and then the sudden you get to be, I think, like the sixteenth century, a little later, the Industrial Revolution and Allison map is good red and is really really gets the point across it like how quickly population is grown in the world and the impacts of it. Now. That's why, coupled this was carrying capacity because they are well yeah, Population growth. Who cares- and you say I well there a limit to the amount of resources we have and that limit

All the carrying capacity of earth, meaning how much earth can sustain human life and their supposedly appoint two right. I got some stat there's my injure those great taken here's a couple of stats, Josh, the United Nations Population division estimates, because five babies are born every second and there is an election. The world is going to have seven billion people by years and they think seven billion Euro six point nine to and change right now something we're close, and I'm too to illustrate your point there about the red dots spreading like a disease that is humans yeah than a billion people in eighteen hundred jobs, like eight hundred million eight hunt. Eighteen hundred due to them, it seems, ancient history, but ain't along three billion people in nineteen sixty and only six billion people

As recently as ninety ninety nine year between nineteen fifty chuck and ninety ninety, the global population doubled from two point: five billion to five billion. That is easy and behind this that's what Exponential growth, yes needs is adding like a million people a year. Slow and steady, your adding a fixed number. It's your Annie. You know populations, in forty years, the exponential growth, and that is the basis of what a guy Thomas Robert Malthus, a in eighteenth century English, clergyman predicted in his essay an essay on the principal population. Basically saying human growth is exponential. We have a big problem because the growth of food is not its linear. And we're in trouble again, and he was a fairly controversial at the time he was debated by lotta people, one of which the system

William Godwin, and he had a theory called the perfectibility of society, which is basically no did we wear humans and we no matter how much meat we grow. We will be able to counter that with advances in technology to allow us to grow, so they debated like crazy. Godwin subsequently was one of the first proponents of anarchism and Malthus talked about eugenics way back then before it was eugenics, he said. I could see something like this being possible, but he says violence and we should do- and he also, incidentally, was the first one of the first people to to support or popularized that the economic theory of rent really- but here is this all over the place. One may well, but our kind of ties in the population, because eugenics tied into a because he was talking about drawing population, sure and rent he feared

It was only possible with a surplus of resources which allows you to second place in rent it ruckus or rent a tool or whatever people room again, Malthus is talking about his generally classified as economics yeah right, but it is also a strip. And all sorts of dirty nasty, little areas like greed, arm, ecology, population, control, so eugenics, family planning, abortion, infanticide, all sorts of stuff that has a lot of implications, far reaching implications, yes- and so I didn't realize that there is somebody who is a contemporary of him, they argued like no humans will use technology to outstrip the outpace. This nothing malthusian curses it's called right. Yeah there was more than God. When there's a few people too. I didn't realize that it was at the time, but I know that over the centuries people have been like Malthus, there was agreed

dear, but you really missed the mark and we're gonna use you as an example of how badly Somebody rocking can get it wrong right because it wasn't it ology there's another aspect of it called the demographic transition, which is basically as soon as we get better with this technology are one of the things we come up with his birth control right arm and while while our mortality rates are are lowering sir We too are fertility rates right and we eventually into this thing called the replacement rate, which is two point one children per household leads to zero population growth right and I think they set in Western Europe. The number was one for in the late nineties, like some people are afraid that the Malthus was corrected. This point and other p say that, like in Europe and Asia, they worry about the opposite, because

from over there- that there are not enough young people to take here- the retirees Wendy, exactly negative population growth so the whose right they do estimate his, who they are Nobody said researchers estimate that populations level off until midcentury about nine billion. Well, that's at best. If we that's, if we do have a lovely they continue to enjoy the rain Now the replacement rate at least zero population growth, which is two point one right now we're at two point: six worldwide and with Africa doing us the other way. Sub Saharan Africa has about a five point, one fertility rate, which means very hold your five point, one yellow born. Does that point one child? I feel so bad for money down on one leg but the yet, if we can,

the zero population growth and we're not gonna, really have to deal with the malthusian curse, possibly ever right, but were not than that's that's, but that's one thing: that's that mouth is didn't account for his things like as societies become more educated right for till it he reads: tended dropped dramatically sure. So that's that's another way to put it off to so. He was scoffed at like you said this: The people out there you think he's he was. He missed the mark, but people doing a little bit a math lately and have figured out that it is entirely possible that he's that the somewhere down the line is right yet the basis we should say of Malthus. This whole thing is a lack of food and water really I we need air food, water, shelter and on its tough, but he was mainly centred on was eventually the food growth will not match up with the population growth and a billion people go hungry, everyday already.

Might argue that already the case new These resolutions are very, very difficult to keep get more exercise save more money. What about this? We have a resolution that you can really work with stop wasting time going to the post office that right, you stamped out I'm instead because they bring all the services of the Eu S postal service right to your computer with yours, business, sinning invoices or packages. Or an online seller shipping out products stamps that can handle it all with ease yank it. This was simply come you get five cents off. Every first class stamp in up to forty percent of priority mail. This right. U S posted! twenty four seven for any letter any package any class anywhere you want to send it, there's no risk, and Our promo code, ass white, ass, gay you're, gonna, get this offer afore weak trial, plus free postage and digital scale, and there are no long term commitments or contracts just go to stamp that come. Click on the microphone.

Top of the page and type in s. Why, as K that stance, I come from a goat s. Why, as K stamps that come never go to the polls, office again. So let's talk about carrying capacity chuck yet as a school, if we had not transition, which we have, which can approves the positive positive lists camp near that we in the technological. If we had a transition from hundred gathered agriculture, the carrying capacity of earth would have Reach said about a hundred million people long time ago. Yes, because there's just so many animals runnin around there, we can killers only so many barriers that are going to occur, naturally armor on the divine right, but we did transition to agriculture before, we hit the hundred million mark, possibly maybe not farming.

And we we use technology which is growing crops to feed ourselves in animals and then we reached another point right where we hit was while the Green revolution remember that yeah? I remember Norman boil over where there is a lot. For her saying about a billion people are going to die. We are no longer here- gonna be able to provide food for all the people here right. We ve come up with great vaccines and other technology that lowering the turkey rate, but this means are living longer and they need food longer over the over their lifespan right. So what I do not remember log- comes along and says you know what we're gonna do tell YO putting exactly the tap yoke of pudding for everybody. Elderly care in every grounded. Now the go ahead. What with what he said ass? He was,

he's ever going to maximize the yield that we get out of arable land when I'm just gonna plant some seeds and will I hope you grow right. We're going to apply tons of pesticide tonnes of food, Are we going to squeeze. Core in size, your torso out of every every plant right yeah. He wasn't some like awful mad. That's what makes him something some awful mad scientist in the eyes of a lot of environmental at sea. He almost well, I mean think about all the run off all the young, the soil depletion. I also didn't he also winner Nobel Prize sure here is credited with saving that billion people are predicted to starve because he came in just in time, because the earth would have reached the carrying capacity for agriculture right. So we ve had at least two different events where we were able to forward through technology right and avoid the malthusian Kurtz right? Yes, so there are people out there who say well, you know where we're

we're going to avoid it again, but what will that be sure and come up with another one? So I'm sorry Chuck, we would have hit capacity a hundred million were we hundred gathers right now? So what are the predictions now, well, they say- and this is where it. What I think is really interesting incompletely said is that we have a potential carrying capacity of billions of forty billion were clearly pass the two. So one might ask: how can it be that big range and the answer is lifestyle and here's a very sad set. If the entire earth live like middle class Americans, not the super rich who you know, probably consume more energy- and the like than your average human, just regular middle class american folks consume about three point: three times the Serbs. Since level of food and two hundred and fifty times the subsistence level. Water, clean water and that means the earth.

Everyone was like us, there only support about two billion people So, what's going on is twice I presented the earth is consuming. I don't have the percentage, but the Seventy five percent of the earth is left with, what's left right is really really crappy system at disparity in the allocation of resources. Yes consume. So that's why it can be a range of two billion to forty billion because of the different lifestyles of everyone live like the twenty five percent there will be plenty for everyone unknown, be sorry! No if everybody live like that, twenty five percent, we would ask. We would be like the seventy five percent right. Sorry, well, the that's that's where the forty billion numbered comes in a scene. Thirty, and I seem forty on the high end for the carrying capacity and that's where every square inch of arable land is being cultivated to its maximum yields. Right in all, people live in high rises that are as high as we can build them right now I write

and where mining the asteroids for for minerals and all that were no longer going or no longer going to the earth. Foregoing the outer space like terraforming, Mars may possibly dont. Think that that should have started. Fifty years ago around but the year that forty billion prediction is stand the absolute minimum requirements and everybody forty billion people living on the planet. Here all using the minimum amount, which is four hundred leaders of water a year and about three hundred kilograms of food a year, mostly grains? And you can basically kiss me- goodbye yeah cause. We need that land to grow up means rather than us further programmes. If he cow right now, it is another way that the West consumes resources more than more than its fair share, neither meet rich diet which is

not only eating the meat reading, the greens that the meat eight right right so chuck it. Let me ask you something of it. If you had, if you want and turned on your tap and there was hot water and it was flowing and it was as much as you liked right. Would you care how you were getting there. What do you mean? How is being delivered through my Fawcett? Yes, your sister questions. Now, if they do not get me wrong Ok, if you were home random, answering in turn on your hot water, ours is much hot orders. You wanted yes and you knew what was coming from a sustainable source. Would you care, I feel sustainable yeah? I guess not, but I'm kind of like a water savour. So you want to save what, if you knew, you didn't really have to save water because it was, those sustainable you wouldn't care. No one cares is low.

We Hauser luxuries that were afforded. Yes, he does you dont care if it came from burning banana appeals right right. No one cares. The problem is that the problem with this- that were on apparently right now is that we are using technology not to get more from less, but to get more for more more. Cheaply right, yeah it SAM it's a uniquely human The call in the article which is pretty much true, but ten o clock advancement is the many ways leading tat are habitat destruction. Ideally, at this point, everyone with beyond solar and wrote the massive companies would be solar powered and all that kind of thing. That's another great point is you don't care where you're electricity comes from due care. If it comes from a solar panel or wind it, of course you don't you just why you're electricity, yet so if we had in

state or if we could invest our technological advances into getting what we have now from last from whence he solar radiation or wind power right then we would be that that's true cutting edge technology rather than you know, figuring out ways to deplete things faster, more cheap. Which is the way we're going you're like thinking of illicit, a more efficient oil drilling or a more efficient the way of getting call from a mountain. I e mountaintop removal, using technology, they're using in ways that are also destroying the habitat and sustained, Lady is all about finding the right balance in your habitat, so here's here's. The conclusion I came to you from reading is right that the argument from the positive list camp- I don't even think I'm using that word correctly, but the people who are the optimists camp shit.

Dela right arm they're saying no matters was incorrect because he failed to account for human ingenuity and as population growth so too, do the number geniuses sure and that's where innovation come from the. I think that the optimists are missing the point in their model, and that is greed. You can't really sway greed too, to benefit human ecology. Can you now and you can convince an entire population of people to change their lifestyles, which is what it would take? That's what I'm saying you. You can't

because they don't care right, but if you could deliver them the same amount of hot water right that same electricity and eight was coming from a sustainable source. No one's going to fight the right right right right is having to get them to fight that fight. To get the people who are controlling it to change over they're, not going to do that, so there's that a flaw in the model that the gloom and do camp has over the optimists camp. In that you either they dont account for four greet. You have you ever seen, who killed the electric car none and encourage people to see that I ve already scary that everyone was me out of your remember, but that everyone was it was ready to go. There were tv commercials, you can look up anyone commercial on Youtube, they were running on television, electricity. Electric cars are here, they're not coming, they are here and boom was gone I'll. Take it up and I'll give you a few guess.

Is the way it left so quickly, not only where they gone. Did they literally? them all up and crush them. Really like. So may I e theatre again he said, but during its core here's the thing. Saving money with Geico was almost better than playing pick up basketball, there's always that guy who joined your game, He never passes the rock he constantly bricks theories and who can neatly hack, you and then put his hands up and say no foul, no foul with Geico it's easy to switch and save on car insurance no need to fake an angel sprain because you're absolutely exhausted. Switch and save. With back up it's almost better than sports and down powerful lobbies. Other Russia. I got nothing man. This is. This is a good one. It you want for people. I think I think that it would just encourage people like we always do just that:

You know we're not say in Vienna, put your job and go like built solar panels for a living and live on a wind farm. You can do that that be awesome, but little little things. Little positive steps, lifecycle, water saving power at this agreement I don't think the onus is on the people. I think the onus is on the people who are misdirecting technological advancement at eight on both eyes agree. I think that this is on the people to conserve. Now I think I think it I think it is. I think we put it on the people, but I think it's going to make enough of an impact. I think it's on the policy makers are through. I think, in time. I was anything having its above. I'm. Ok, all this debate to be played out on Facebook page. If you ask me, I am able to tell perform so few another more type in. Has the earth reached its carrying capacity or

Miss Malthus, email, th? U S in the search bar has to force that common agreements and critical stuff, while the men, listen. I Joshua call this this. How to make it. My teenage son was, in your show from Portland Oregon, I got Jerry. When you have a teenager, you will quickly you can't just tell them what to do and expect them to do it in those days it's so frustrating because his apparent you know oh that your kid, what about something and get lots out of it? But you can't come right, I'll, say it where they were never ever try the thing you told them the drive, for example your pipe cast a for a fact. Like I know that will reign in Portland that my thirteen year old son Ethan would really loves stuff. You should know his. I love the pie, taciturn other people onto it and they love it, but I knew I had to be sneaky in order for my son to give it a try. Ethan is a venture the time, was also working on a research project about renaissance jostling in turn

so one saturday I was working in the kitchen. I played how night's work to catch his interest every time he came in the kitchen at play. When he leave pause, I would figure heaps man he's got sick along on the finnish itself, He would hang around the kitchen longer and longer each time, and I could tell I almost had him on the line like I was kneeling, although you Adam on the arm. Theirs when it was over? He said he already knew everything you talk about the past, but I could see intrigue. Then I had him with DVD Show, and that was it. You had another now his downloaded the out for his ipod and listens. Each night is going to sleep well, and that is why the others from acting in a very sneaky mom. Thank you in Portland. Oregon thinks after then also criticising the colts in brain.

Episode student yeah. She said when she replied asked her. If she said sure- and she said I get so now- I'm a little trick now, but he'll get such a kick out of being mentioned. Even if answer yes, you forgive them yet in at least he can rest assured that she's not like putting anything in his soup to get him to do what she wants seasons, more subtle tactics I wish you could put some soup to make people is witnessing now to get idea put in all suits so you are, if you have any suggestions or where we can put in people's suit, to get them to listen to stop. You should now and to get them to go. Give us a review on Itunes yeah that that helps us out. When you do that, You should send an email and you should send it to a specific email address that is stuff podcast at how stuff

that can't be sure to check out our new video podcast stuff from the future joint Housetop work staff as we explore the most promising and perplexed brought you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camry. It's ready are you twenty two thousand twelve Camry. It's ready! Are you I am Bobby Brown- Welcome to my podcast beyond the beauty show from show from radio, to be sitting down with different people each week that I think we can all learn from. I hurt radio is number one for podcast, but don't take our word for listen to beyond the beauty. I hurt radio APP Apple Todd cast or ever you get your podcast, because we all have something to learn about the real me.