Hello friends, I want to tell you about love book, the very easy way to personalize a book to someone. You love in three easy steps. Users can create characters that look just like themselves and the recipient right down to the outfits and accessories customers have the option to personalize each page as much as they like love, but now offers a membership programme as well. You receive a free book when you sign up fifty percent off any additions books. Love books are the perfect gift for all occasions or just because so right now you can check out love books. By going to love book online dotcom, Slash crush, you receive especial twenty percent discount only for the movie crushers, that is it love book online, Dotcom, slash rush. Welcome to study should now run Hasta for external

I welcome the podcast on Josh Clark with me. As always, is the lovely encountered Charles W Truckers Brian? I they chuck which tends from when to win from Chicago Bears had to the Atlanta Braves yesterday, and today we are made of many had many. Yet family online appears man. You know their pockets, yes, punkin chunky. Yes, ass, we are going to mention once again, the discovery channel are awesome. Parent company is releasing to television shows on Thanksgiving night, took a few people check. They're gonna, be on the science channel well, on Thursday November twenty six, which is thanks, giving us a dead dead Turkey's that day, yet the road, the pumpkin,

Duncan and Punkin shrunken right. The road, a pumpkin, shrunken, comes on at eight p m eastern time on the science channel right, followed by the real punkin shonkin right at nine p M Eastern. I would follow it up with a show called the road from punkin fear. I M back home after punkin, jumping in Delaware, no less! So that's that right sure variety so Chuck! Yes, Josh, this have like a little. This seems vaguely familiar we're talking about mutual assured destruction ok. Well, how does it seem familiar because I did it with Candice many many moons ago on stuff, you miss in history class, really back when it was called factor fiction to that was another lifetime. Wasn't really was I have so many more grey hairs. Now, like my postures, much worse due to give the Seattle swamp, I do actually nice when I give a chukka talked about

I think, you're there we ve mentioned it remember we did a. I know how easy it is still a nuclear bomb. We concluded that if the Jamaican are buying it in you steal it on route to Jamaica right, you probably get away with it right. This podcast is specifically on a cold war. Strategic doctrine called mutual assured production, which is abbreviated as mad appropriately enough. Yet funny it's like it's scary, is I'll get out, but it's also comforting in the same breath. It's weird! Oh yes, because I mean, if you think about it, you and I grew up. Cold war babies sure we grew up with the express knowledge that any moment nuclear work break out in happen there. Everyone on the planet was dead, church and, like that, how we were raised, like our kids, were born like what, unlike mid eighties spray wishes. Not to me that there's people walking around that are sentient that were born in the MID eighty. But I could

We're border the middys and after did not grow up with that spectre. Lou, over him- and I imagine, are completely different people personality and like you- and I want that's like everyone else on our staff almost agreed. You ever think about that. I did not. There are few old folks like us, although on me older than you. Obviously you definitely I'm goin out checks wearing right now, a gene jacket with a sharp marker used to do the journey logo on the back, it's pretty cool jerk. You, you burn out so Chuck. As I was saying, we grew up, as is cold war. Kids. Yes, in every one, so I have to stop it. Think? Why didn't the? U S in the USSR blow one another up. Are you asking me that, well

talk of ethical Worley advocacy answer at the end of the podcast LUCA to save that the Cold war Josh. I had a couple of really scary moments. If you wanna talk about those, I do the cuban missile crisis, Willis of pretty tents. Couple we probably the first one in nineteen, sixty two President Kennedy threatened to strike he found out that Russia had moved or I guess a Soviet Union had moved missiles to Cuba were pointing them at his face and Cuba seems like a world away, but it's really just ninety miles off the southern coast of Florida, a short boatwright right, so you, if you have nuclear long range, nuclear warheads pointed at the: U S they can now hitter we're probably as far as Kansas City, let's say right and that is definitely hit temperature asketh scary couple of weeks, It was because there was a yes stand off. Basically, if we were saying hey we're, gonna nuke you, if you don't move these missiles and the Soviet Union said. Oh, yes, will nuke you back then

you can? Actually you can? You can point to. This is perhaps the beginning of the mad doctrine rapture, and not the other scary one was in nineteen eighty when yeah anybody hurt her. This was weird chuck. This actually happen like several times I. This is probably the worst that's some bad communication on what happened was Nor add got some information that this of eating it had launched. Two thousand two hundred and twenty nuclear missiles our way the you're in no nor add which is like our the command. Centre for our missile system. Events do been Ashine Mountain in Colorado, mice on some computer screen, some guys computer screen that that tracks soviet missile movement, all the sudden images peppered

with missiles that we're coming this way in and national Security director Brzezinski. Much of that right, I think it's right. I can't remember a lot of continent, then it's not that I can't remember it's there. I've never heard it. I haven't under present ski sure, we're going with present ski he was alerted pretty early in the morning right yet to em. He was alert in woken up in there like hey, there's, a soviet missile strike. An all out missile strike twins two hundred and twenty missiles coming out. And he is picking up the phone call. President Carter, who I dont know what Carter would have done. Carter was an exam Lee the most militant president, we ve ever had great guy yeah great statesman, great diplomat. He might have put his pants and go back to bed and I may be so, but hey, that's what you mean

he never get. That phone call, because Brzezinski was informed that oh wait. It's a computer glitch right. They whack this the monitor in it are correctly. This is what shocked me was over seven minute window that we had to decide what to do what a long way from the Soviet Union to the? U S, even in my way in Alaska, seven minutes, they scary yeah, yet the makeup, mine and seven minutes, whether not you're gonna destroy the world. Basically, I'm saying you I think that it would be less than seven went well here: ok, you're so and I'm telling you like, that was probably the worst case, but that happened many times during the course of the cold war right and from what I stay in the Soviet had similar incidents to right. I did a year, so we have these incidents where the cuban missile crisis, why didn't either side pull the trigger because of the doctrine, the mad doctrine? Basically, which indicates that everyone will die so the piano

the blow everybody up on both sides. So let's not do that right in the USSR, in the United States could actually very quickly from nineteen forty, seven and nineteen forty one both nations were building up. Their nuclear arsenals is called nuclear proliferation. Rice sciatica got that, sort sort of the nuclear proliferation, and you take that one for the rest of the Pakistan. Ok, ok, and they ve. So each side had this arsenal inward keeping up in step with one another. You know that's come yet nuclear parity, which is ideally what you want. Strangely, yes, in this case, you definitely do so both sides had more than enough nuclear missiles to wipe out not just the other side, but the entire planet several times over. That's a really important point several times over. Why would you need a nuclear arsenal that could wipe out

the world the planet several times over now, maybe if they destroyed some of our weaponry with their strikes, that's part of it. Ok, but another part of is because if one side the missile. You got at a missile. Why? If you, if you are seeking, clear parity right, really important! Then you there can't be it can't be out of whack. How did they did they release all this information at each other? Was it knows intelligence gases that kind of stuff. So it all I sudden, there's like metal hole, in the ground and Wyoming that wasn't there before the Soviets partly assumed I will they have a new nuclear warhead there they didn't. I am each other and say built Newman

so lol. I knew you were going to say that hello friends, I want to tell you about love book, the very easy way to personalize a book to someone you love in three easy steps. Love books, helps customers express the sentiments that may be difficult to say out loud for some of us. Looking in any one particular direction, users can create characters that look just like themselves and the recipient right down to the outfits and accessories customers have the option to personalize each page as much as they like, but the express option creates a complete book with just a few clicks. Love of now offers a membership program as well. You receive a free book when you sign up fifty percent off any additional books, unlimited free digital books and discounts on gift, wrap and other products. Love books are the perfect gift for all occasions or just because right now you can check out

looks by going to love book online dotcom, slash crush. You will receive a special twenty percent discount, that is it love book online, dotcom, Slash crush, so both sides are building up their arsenal and early on Chuck as reading another article on game theory, which will see plays ended, written by our esteemed colleague in my b? F, F Tom she's here, and he talks about early on apparently Eisenhower who, what the second president have the bomb, but really first, president manage liken, amassed nuclear arsenal to love the bomb he here he stopped working. He looked at them is like any other type of weapon he was a military man right, but luckily there is a game theorist named Thomas, showing who had the ear of Eisenhower, managed to convince him that

No, no. No. These things are way way more powerful and destructive than anything else in our arsenal. They exist in this in this vacuum that it has to be kept separate and therefore they should be viewed only as deterrents and he man, the change Eisenhower's view and from there I M going on it was the presence of a nuclear arsenal was a weapon in and of itself. It was the prevented and not only to nuclear war? But the point that did you write this when the point that you made, which I found interesting, was it it also? Is it a deterrent to conventional warm excellent point because conventional or there really after after the arms race, there was no such thing as conventional war, no in a knot between the U S in the USSR or a guaranteed convention were might start out that way, but it will escalate and all of a sudden the button is pushed at some point right, because our nuclear arsenal did exist and say

vacuum outside of the rest of our arsenal. But once you exhausted the rest of the arsenal than the inevitable conclusion was that that nuclear arsenal being deployed right right or even if you didn't exhausted, even if you do said you just got man was just in this game exactly it so as a result, the U S in the USSR, just for a cold war thing I ever directly engagement other, but they fought one another through proxy wars and places Nicaragua in Afghanistan got a lot lotta good movies. Ethical were definitely Rambo three and good, some good James Bond. That time I liked it when the risk is where the and it was like, the James Bond movies of the cold war, Ok yeah, maybe the early was unthinkingly Timothy Doll nearer with me. I mean trust Roger more, is kind of a laughable bond.

But I'm older and look back, you're crazy, Roger more is the better to now I ask, as we grew up with them, but looking bagged M income on Roger, more was kind of a do maybe, but that was I think that was his directorate, that he was working where I can like pierce browsing, and he was good- is ok, I'm pretty hip on the Danube. Craig he's all right. Well, thus yelling direction. They could take that really loved rond, now just more realistic god, but kickin with fists in anything. You don't think we're. Rigour was realistic. He was constantly like winking at the camp, dad you ve police on the same yeah. It's like Jonathan Strickland is James Bond Goodwin. I'm so sorry about this. I tracked yeah. What happened? Was we created a data it wasn't like. Ok, we all have the same amount of weapons so we're be affects now and it's all good. It was a daytime meaning sort of Asia what was the best description in uneasy truce yeah. So, basically the

U S in the USSR, had our weapons and were keeping an eye on one another, and time, one added a new, more solar, some new capability, the other scrambled to catch up and vice versa, and we just basically went to sleep with one eye open for the next several decades, trying to suggest what two things have to take place in order to achieve this weird stability, while the weird stability, the very fact that it existed. It's not, it wasn't an organic. It wasn't organically created by the presence of nuclear weapons Right Henry Kissinger, who was secretary state throughout much of the cold war, Love Kissinger. He actually was a huge fan game theory? He took a lot of game theory classes when he was an underclass minute Harvard and he kept in touch with game. Mary and hung out with game theorists, and he actually was one of the people who is responsible for applying game theory to nuclear strategy? Really,

yeah and other people kind of cod on and saw that there was a lot of merit in validity to to viewing nuclear strategy through game theory sharing, so the things really are having that. U S about four answer, my question: that whisky is aid to have the weapons to begin with right, as Robert Mcnamara points out. The defence secretary in nineteen sixties was that you have to believe that the other guys actually has the colonies pull the trigger right in apparently both the? U S and the USSR like to leak, false information about how crazy their leaders were sixty remember how we are brought up viewing, like the Russians sure They were all knots right. I would just push the button it any set. Yeah. They wanted american blood, apparently that was planted by the Russians, because you have to believe that

The other guy is willing to strike right in and not just create a first strike, but definitely a counter strike as well right you're. So if you are assured that, if you watch a first strike that the next the other side's going to launch a retaliatory strike rang, what you have just done by launching that first strike is committed suicide. Pretty much. The the basis of mutual assured destruction is that nobody wants to die. Ok, yeah, ok and also at the time I mean at first that the the way the nuclear warheads developed over the years is pretty cool because, like you pointed out at first, it was just a big, huge dopey bomb that would just blow up everything.

Have you seen pictures of fat boy in little man yeah? They let you urge alarm some day they do there are lots of money would drop out of the back of a plain. Yet did you know they weren't the same type, a bomb fat man which was dropped, Nagasaki with plutonium and a little boy which has dropped on Hiroshima was uranium I didn't know that, and they were they were working on both these. So basically we split the atom in like the and all of a sudden, we're just working on any kind of atomic bomb. We want right right, nuts, so over the years, though, that it became very precise and much more strategic, Joe. You could dumb, let's say, send your nuclear warheads, two specific military targets at first, obviously to wipe out. You know some of that capability. Homer! You talk about escalation. Let's talk about the nuclear proliferation, Let us do matter of escalation, woven let's talk about where the nukes were Roca and so at the height of the cold war. It wasn't just

so silos and Wyoming, an israeli crane it was. There is European Theatre, eastern and western. We, nuclear warheads all over the place there at any given time, both the Soviets and the? U S head aircraft in the air at any point, right with nuclear arms with nukes right we had nuclear submarine, all over the globe? Yet so land, sea and air both sides had covered, so ok were the with the world's completely covered with their own nuclear devices right very high tech delivery systems. Civic and both sides have enough to wipe the other one off the planet. Several times were added, they taught rightly so. What happens if somebody does launcher first strike, because it's no longer a holocaust were just shooting missiles anymore. We have

capabilities to want, ran precise, surgical strike. Will there be counterstrike? There is, but this is where the ladder of escalation you're talking about, comes in well, yeah, you like in it to a chess game, there's a strike than a counterstrike, and then you know increasing levels of of strikes as they climb up the ladder right, our so basically yeah. It's like I'm trading punches right right, so you start out. You start out soft and I hate you. I don't know who I am bringing all from the beginning. Then I'm really glad you weren't at the helm of the United States or the USSR bearing the cold war. But let's say let's say we or evenly we yet- and I punch you- u punch me a little harder,

I'd punch you a little harder right then way keeps going on until finally, one of the like, ok stop idle, but what we ve done is we ve escalated. The damage were doing one another right, but there's something very important. They that's easily overlooked in that trade of punches. There's a moment that comes after each punch where someone might quit were somebody has the operator to quit right or try. Another punch in if you trade, another punch you're going to escalate right. So if it in the case of nuclear arms that are real precise at this point, they take out a few of our military bases. We take a few, others are out and all the sudden one of the leader steps back into the wait. A minute

we're gonna annihilate everybody? We have to stop you win at right. Exactly what's crazy is like the fact that there would even be a retaliatory strike is all based on saving face shirt which is kind of discussing it in and of itself. Yet the ep both sides had this kind of agreement. A camera was called where it's it's like in the ladder of escalation. First, you stop, with like say nuclear silo right, and then you, the next us the next wrong on the ladder. Is you no actual troops right it's wrong after those like maybe a rural area, then after that is like a city and it keeps rowing- and I am in each other between what give up yet both sides knew what was coming next right part of the ladder of escalation. Luckily, we never engaged in that. Luckily, those now instant messaging MAC than to have now been fun or could have saved that. Well, I guess we were saved but Chuck. I know you recognise that

or of escalation, because your favorite movie, or one of them had this factor heavily into your war games. When did we talk about this one in that the nuclear bomb, or was it another one. We ve talked about at least one other time, yeah, it's a great man. Two like ten thousand and ninety podcast so far. I think so your games and about half of those states in nineteen eighty three Matthew Young Matthew, broader, although only he still looks exactly the same, quicker, really does. Suddenly. He doesn't age surges parkers an aged either yeah. But if you look at square pegs, her verses sex in the city, her there is quite a different LUCA, although I still don't find a very attractive to be honest, Chuck here from the Ladys allowing insurgents Parker that you too, she listen to this They be great, you're, really hot Sarah Jessica Park here yet Josh and WAR Games Matthew, broader EC hacks into the nor at system and to play some games and what each year

who plays thermonuclear war and the computer constantly at the end of the movie? Now it's like the only way to win is not to play right, which is actually correct, and that is right on the money it some. It's also akin to an actual game theory exercise called the prisoners dilemma yeah, that's cool! Tell us about that! Joshua prisoners lemme! Let's say you have to accomplices in a crime that are separate what's it to you and me, I so chuck your being interrogated in room a just did it It's an well learn both in a shovel. In trouble in you're, not right but let's say were- were actually buddies and we like each other outside of the pod cash or had that legal and we we ve, committed a jewel heist, so we ve been caught, but nobody

anything yet where an interrogation room, a I'm an interrogation room, be problem is I have no idea what you're doing you have no idea what I'm doing. If you implicate me, I go to jail. You go free right. If I implicate you, you go to jail. I go free. Your rank, both implicate each other. We both go to jail. What's the best option. Here too not say a word not say a word in the nether. One of us is implicated. We both go free, that's a classic tv and moving too in you always split a month. And you and you always go into the one room and say your partners in their sing in like a bird yeah, Stuteley yeah see what's a rock is gonna fix. Your says yeah and then all of a sudden they get that prisoner to or that criminal to read out the other guy as they think that they are being ran out, stupid and they should keep your mouth shut. Hey Chuck, are you like them

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what the lesson to our younger viewers. Keep your mouth shut. Yeah! That's a good sized good, never rat people out or it so if you want to read more about mutual assured destruction. Frankly, I think that I wrote this little flowery article I got. I is one of my favorite once this is interesting in united typing, the troll assured destruction. Recital also bring up Tom Sheaves game theory, article which is definitely worth reading as well, and you will take them into the handy search bar, which means it's time for listening now. Indeed, Josh going to call this are for genuine unicorn, all right sort of what about the ones were. People sent his pictures of unicorn genuine spots hijacking Josh. You mentioned that you wanted to Munich

stories, and I can resist any this when it might be a good led into a podcast on traditional medicines, islamic centres I just got back from a trip to Vietnam and, as a part of my trip, I went into the hill country and in vietnam- called supper. Where many minority tribes are residing in part of their way, It is selling their where's the tourist and offering homesteads chemical after day hike group of his ended up in a family home and they served as a delicious dinner of traditional food? something they called happy water. I like that, made rice wine, you can imagine what have you got us a little giggly to begin with and what really got us going missing? The lady, the house nonchalantly walk out of the kitchen with a cows horn stuck to her forehead ass if she were a unicorn when we finally contained ourselves. We all felt like slabs, because our guide explained that this is a traditional way of getting rid of headaches for on the people

corn in the fire branded to your forehead after a short time. You take it off for the next two weeks, you have to run at the round red mark on your forehead, maybe effort more than the headache and therefore to remind us all that I'm not sure only the first crazy. Anyway, this my semi unicorn story. Thankfully greatheart task from hang me and maybe the M M thanks ANG for that. Actually, yes, that is definitely the closest thing you an actual unicorn listener, We got so far. Indeed, if you have any cold war stories or any unicorn stories or your name is Aang or contains those letters in that same arrangement

It's an email. You can send it to stuff podcast. How stuff works that come more on this and thousands of other topics? Is it how stuff works dot com? What moorhouse of words check out our blogs on the house works: dot com page text day will be here before you know it everybody but relax, because each in our black, as your one, stop tat shot their tax pressure. Experts certified and train and eighteen are black- has up front transparent pricing, which means you know that, before you begin no surprises and with offices open early and late, it's easy to walk in, make an appointment or just drop off your documents. Do your taxes out or in your maximum refund. In your pocket visit each hour, block dot com, slash textile, define the closest office to you, it's better with black