On the last day of 1992, Debra and Tony Pickman moved into a rented house in Atchison, Kansas. A few months later, they began to notice flickering lights, cold spots, and items moving by themselves. They learned the house was haunted by the ghost of a little girl named Sallie. But as the haunting grew more extreme, they began to wonder if there was something else lurking in the home.
To view this episode’s full list of sources, please visit parcast.com/supernatural
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
In folklore, a shape. Shifter is usually a creature or animal that takes on the shape of something attractive or playful. It lures you. It gains your trust and keeps its motives hidden until it reveals its true colours for better or worse in the choir.
Town of Atchison Kansas. There is a kind of shape, shifter that isn't a living being its house, a haunted house with a friendly ghost, a little girl
named Sally, but behind Sally Sweet little face is a present, so dark and so powerful that it draw
a young family to the brink of insanity,
this is supernatural apart cast original and I'm your hosts Ashley flowers, every
this I'll be taking a deep dive into a real unexplained mystery to try and figure out the truth you can find
all episodes of supernatural and all other Parkhurst originals for free on Spotify. And if you like what your hearing
out to us on Facebook and Instagram at par, cast and twitter at Park ass network? This week's episode
It is about the Sally House, a home in Acheson Kansas that is said to be.
One of the most actively haunted houses in the country, but its unclear. What exactly is behind the hunting? Is it a ghost
or is it something even worse?
dig into the mystery right after this stay with us
The hunting of the Sally House was first recorded by one young couple. Deborah Ann Tony Pigman Devil
Tony pigment moved into the house on New Year's Eve nineteen? Ninety two Deborah?
twenty nine tony- was twenty seven. They were this newly married couple and expecting their first child, and this house seemed like the perfect place to start their new family from me,
outside. It was quaint, a two story: White Brick House with blue trim built in the eighteen hundred. There was even this little porch it had em
He spent and three bedrooms upstairs one of them the picnic
turned into a nursery for awhile
after they moved in. They didn't notice anything strange, but then little thing
started happening bulbs. Would Flickr
of in time or were turned on and then start buzzing by itself, and the cordless foe
I would, though, dead and then just come back on, but you know this
an old house, so there might be false
he wiring and they kind of trying right things off, and
the time their son Taylor is born at the end of June. They honestly a kind of forgotten about it altogether until
one day when they go to Tony's family house and they come home after dark when they get the bay
up to the nursery, they see something surprising some one has to.
In all this stuffed animals and put them on the floor in a circle with their hands. Touching
first thought is that its tony sister in law she dropped off
chair for them. While they were gone when they call
she says, yeah like I did, go up to the nursery to see how you decorated it, but there was nothing on the floor when I was there and I didn't
He tells them something else. She did get a gun,
be feeling when she was in the house. There was this weird draft kind of like
cold breeze ass. She went up the stairs by the time she
to the nursery. She felt so uneasy that she left ass, fast ass. She could now Deborah Spelt COS
spots in the house before, especially going up the same stairs so
tony sister in law asks: do you think you have a ghost? She thought it.
It seems totally insane also debars
always wanted to see. A Goethe did something she's,
greatly kind of wish for all her life. So the thought of having a ghost is honestly more exciting to her than scary.
But she tells herself. No, it can't be a ghost. Some one must be messing with us, so she
in go back up to the nursery. They put all the stuffed animals back where they were turn out the lights
and go downstairs
as soon as they get to the bottom of the stairs
they see the light in the nursery is back on
and when they look in the room again, one teddy bear
is lying on the floor. This spooks them out
a little bit. So they actually search the house because, whoever is doing this must still be inside. But after looking
every single room upstairs downstairs the basement, there's just nothing so they put the bear
back where it was on the chair by the door and they turn out the light. Again they go back.
Downstairs and they kind of just wait to see what happens
after about a half an hour, Deborah goes back upstairs to use the bathroom and sure enough when she looks in the nursery. The teddy bear is on the floor again at this point: beer, terrified,
today called Tony's brother, Leary, Larry's kind,
if sceptical- and they figure that he'll have the
or for what's really going on so
here he comes over, but now that he's here nothing half
They sit in the living room for a while kind of waiting in watching, but everything's
calm down and then
just as Larry's about to leave. They noticed something enough.
Teddy Bear One did they kept downstairs, has been turned around in the
opposite direction. Now facing the wall this
to have happened while they were all upstairs in the nursery, because the last time they ve been downstairs, it had been facing the other way now. Leary is
just as confused as the others. He tells them
He's going to speak to his boss, whose sister is actually a psychic, maybe she'll, be
to give them some kind of answers as to what's going on
after Leary leaves Tony actually calls his mom and tells her everything that's going on, and she invites them over to spend the night at her house just so, though failsafe, but they do so
to stay put the knife
stay. His mom realises something she had a friend
whose daughter lived in that house before. So she asked her for,
and if there was ever any weird activity in the house
and her friend says you know they do
notice some strange things. There had been this
a key smell in the house, and toys were
ways on the floor when she talks
our kids to pick up the toys, they blame it on someone named Sally and at the time they always
thought that Sally was her daughters, imaginary friend. That doesn't mean
who much to Tony initially until they hear back from the psychic Leary connected them with her name is
Barbara and she lives out in California half way across the country, but without
in visiting the house. She can pick up on a few things
We're says that they definitely have a ghost. It's a little girl
between the ages of five and thirteen, and her name is Sally now this is prey
Specific, especially considering that she's never even been to the house, but it's not
uncommon for psychics to be able to give readings over the phone, or at least they say they can do such a thing in any event
Barbara said: listen, you dont need to worry, Sally, actually likes you and she especially likes the baby. She wouldn't
or do anything to hurt. You
She says Sally is a child, so you need to lay down some ground rules with her like telling her to put the toys back after she plays with them and the next time
She disobeyed. You need to give her a talking to now tony
Don't really know what to think about this.
Tony's moms friend and the psychic both came up with the name Sally. It seems like I can't just be a
Winston. It's maybe there's something to this to Deborah
Pierre to having a dangerous intruder. A playful ghost really isn't bad bad
honestly again, she's even a little excited about it, but Tony is sceptical. He's a practising Catholic!
He thinks ghosts are nonsense and, if they're not
he doesn't want anything to do with them. The next day,
Tony's brother George comes over and Tony tells him all about. What's going on, he even shows him the stuffed bear in the living room that turned around on its own. When Larry was there, while there
ok and kind of jokingly, Tony picks up his camera and says hey Sally. If you're in here say cheese and right
he snapped. The picture. George seized the beer Hearn around here
out, the beer has just moved right in front of their eyes and that's enough for Tony. He makes a b
for the stairs and George
takes a step to follow him, but he can't move something.
Is trying to push him backwards and as he stands there, he feels this
Sensation go through his body when he finally
control of his muscles. He's able to follow Tony up the stairs when they tell Deborah about what happened
agrees it's time to get out of here, as they rush
the door and as Tony struggling to get the baby buckled into the car seat, he feels something
steam him on his back
literally so painful that he cries out, but there's so much commotion that he doesn't even stop to think about it. They just drive away and get out of there
not until later that Deborah lives up his shirt to see what happened a mere on his back or three
long bloody scratch marks
everyone knows Tony didn't do this himself. He wouldn't even be able to reach that far behind its physically impossible. So she calls
our brothers psychic and
Are you sure that this ghost is friendly? Barber decides that debate
thing to do- is probably too just come over and look around in person or herself, so she for
as all the way out from California, a couple of Knights leader
after seeing the house she's very clear Sally.
Is not dangerous.
We can actually see Sally and she says she's adorable she's, just a little girl who wants to be part of their family, but there is a potential problem.
Sally doesn't like men. She may have been abused,
her father or another man in her life bar was not a.
Two percent sure all she knows she doesn't like men. That does
mean that Sally is violent, though, when she scrapped
tony. She was just over
excited. She says different tone.
Just need to tell her that she can't do that anymore. Now, if I,
now that there was a ghost in my house friendly or not child or not- and I was now responsible for parenting that goes, I would probably want to get out of there as soon as possible, but the
means decide to stay for one day,
they can't afford to move they just rented this house and they ve spent all their money. Getting the place, decorated and furnished, and whatever this thing is it's not really harming that just a few
scratches sure, but it not home
movie stuff endeavour
already starting to feel kind of maternal towards the ghost give it
the child, they need to shower her with love and attention, she thinks, and so that's it
Exactly what Deborah does she talks to Sally praises? Her sometimes Deborah can feel
hold spot next to her when she sitting around, which she assumes is Sally, trying to cuddle with her one day.
Whereby, by Sally a doll, sheep gift round,
a and days it in the corner of the nursery for her into the
he's later, when Deborah is alone in the house. She walks into the nursery and she sees the doll laying in the baby's empty crib. But here's the thing the box is still in the corner, with the wrapping p.
Still on it. Somehow Sally got the dull out of the box without disturbing the paper and without making a sound Deborah is in all of us
sally, can do like
proud, mother, almost but Tom
He is not sharing the love, his income
with Sally, are always a little bit different, sometimes
James, he can hear something scratching from inside the walls almost like it's trying to get out and he hears voices at first there really face
but as the months go by, they get louder and louder. It's like there are several people
in the room, all of them talking over one another, but he can't quite understand, what's being set by October. Tone
begun to feel something biting his toes
not necessarily in a painful way, justice, steady,
nibbling. He tells Deborah about
his uneasiness, but she assures him. It's just Sally trying to get his attention and men
on Halloween morning Tony comes
from work, and
Standing there in the kitchen is Sally
will learn more about Tony's encounter with Sally when we return.
So much out of our control. Many of us have had to start new routines, but one thing that does
we need a change, is control over our beauty, routine, whether its
virtual date night or getting ready for a hot night on the town with chick hydro.
Silk razors you're, always in control, hydro,
it offers a full portfolio of products that deliver high performance solutions. Ideal for
the hair of war zone, the hydro silk
I've sensitive razor has five curves.
Seeing blades to give you your closest shave it
Each a water activated Hydra boost serum with Shea butter that
moisturize is up to two hours after shaving and the hydro silk,
grim style is the old
He too in one product features
hide rating razor on one end and a waterproof bikini
tremor on the other. The incomes
all of your beauty learn more at shake dot com, slash, hydro, silk,
supernatural listeners like you. I am a big fan of podcast, but sometimes the
hardest. Thing is finding new shows to dive into, which is why I'm here, to help? Did you
No, that the same team that made supernatural is behind a whole collection of other shows here is a
was from one that I think you're really gonna, like thanks Ashley, if you loved it
activating stories told on supernatural. Then you'll definitely want to check out our true crime. Podcast serial killers, I'm Vanessa,
Jason every Monday and Thursday Gregg Paulson, and I catch a rare glimpse into the mines, methods and madness of some of the most sadistic murderers ever to walk the earth there now
aims have become larger than life, their crimes, some of the most
Venus in history? There
stories will shock you from this
of SAM David Berkowitz and the Kohen killer, Edmund Camper to Jack the Ripper
Jeffrey Dahmer. Syria,
killers, takes you closer to the killers crimes and
cases that forever changed
ace of history follow them
are cast original series serial killers free on Spotify or
Ever you get your podcast back to the story,
when Tony first see Sally in the kitchen. He thinks she's a regular little girl who followed him into the house. Then
he realizes she's, dressed in old fashioned. Close she's got
on a cue white lay stress with puffy sleeves and her brow.
Hair is pulled up into a bow and she's got these
enormous adorable blue eyes he's star
by the sight of her. You literally drops his glass and just like that, she's gone as far
ghost go even Tony has to admit this one's pretty cute, but she's definitely not harmless
as the months go by Tony, starts to wonder if their dealing with something more sinister than a little girl
one night when they have guessed over for dinner, something scratches Tony on his forehead. It actually scotches so hard that it draws blood in everyone's.
He's the scratches appear, but they don't
actually see what caused it. Another
Tony dreams that he's being dragged out of bed by the wrists, but it's so vivid it doesn't feel like a dream and when he wakes
the next morning. His wrist have blisters on them in the shape of child fingerprints
another time. Tony even sees a woman who, at first he thinks is Deborah walking down the hall. He followed her.
To a room, but when he enters nobody's there, then he finds
a bird in a totally different room and she's, not even dry
So he knows at the woman he was following wasn't her now, despite
How scary all of this is. The couple still won't totally rule out a natural explanation for all of this, with a new
We're baby in the house. Tony was pretty sleep deprived which could have been
causing him to have delusions or even minor hallucinations, and that,
Deborah says every time. Tony has one of these episodes that he's just tired, somehow
for its own go sightings dont register. I strange to her. Those are all totally real, apparently, but
using violent or scary that can't be sweet, Sally so eventually
he just start to keep everything to himself and there's no,
ass. He can talk to about any of this mind you. There
in a very conservative town. Everyone is catholic to this point Deborah.
Then his only confident about all of this stuff, and now she doesn't even believe him, which makes it even harder when things keep
getting stranger when they take their family
Miss photos, an eerie buller, shows up in the prince. They send it to bar.
Bread- and she says, that's a completely different ghost
an older woman with a domineering personality, probably the same woman Tony saw walking around in the house again
Barbara says they shouldn't worry this second ghost.
Probably won't do anything bad, but it's
harder and harder to believe her by now.
Baby is waking up in the middle of the night, screaming
one day, a TWAIN, the nursery begins to play Horrible's
reaching static. It's meant to record
babies voice and play it back to them, but it's no Babel
it's not a scream or a cry either at least not a human one. The big question, of course, is
This thing reported that sound in the first place, Deborah had
in the room right before it started, making the sound and heard nothing
that same day, Tony is trying to take a nap in the room when he sees dust particles in the air start to come together. He says
form into the shape of an older woman, dressed in black, with black hair piled on top of her head
as she comes near him everything
in the room starts to shake the dress
the mattress. Even the door slammed shut, the woman
sticks out one hand in a black lace, glove just inches from his face and says I'm gonna, and at that,
we moment a blackbird appears on her finger Tony crawls out of the bed toward the door,
but he can't open it,
just as he sure she's about to strangle him, he wakes up back on the bed. The
tired time, Deborah hadn't heard a thing. Not even the door slammed
as things are starting to escalate, the pigments get a phone call from a television show called sightings Barbara. The cycle,
had been talking about the pigments in some of her lectures and producer from the show heard.
Their story. The show
wants to come to Kansas and actually film them and the pigments go along with it. Tony hopes that
Maybe bees people can finally help them the siting,
through a in July of ninety. Ninety four and things are immediately off to a scary start, the very first
filming while Deborah was being interviewed. Tony was attacked by an unseen force that left deep, bloody, scratches
on his arm
then in the middle of his own interview. He got scratched again on his stomach. The crew just held the
camera on him for nine minutes straight, as the scratches slowly appeared out of nowhere over the
course of one night, a filming Tony, was attacked,
I've been separate times by the time they were through. He was,
covered in wealth and scratches this all have,
in front of a parasite who said that in all of his career heed
ever seen anything like this. There was even
One occasion when Tony was scratched on his back, the will
actually came out in the shape of the initials and see which happened to be the first
and middle initials of the man who built the house. You see
Deborah had done a little of her own research by now, so she knew that the house was built around eighteen, seventy one by an eye
Immigrant name, Michael Chrome, in Finny, Michael had
in the house the year after he built it, leaving two sons and a daughter behind one of those
and Charles became a doctor and lived in the house for a while, the sightings Crew
brings in a psychic who actually senses that a doctor used to live in the house, which we know is correct, but he easily could have looked
that information, so we gotta take out with a grain of salt, but he also can
arms? There's a ghost named Sally in the house. He thinks she
may have died of pneumonia and that she may have been the doctors patient. This
Dixon Sally, has been trapped in the house ever since and she's not the only spirit here. There's a darker presents to this
I keep leads the crew to a cemetery and finds a grave for the little girl that he believes is behind the hauntings Sally.
Isabel Hall who died in nineteen o five
Fortunately, when they look into it, Sally Hall wasn't a little girl with brown, hair and blue eyes. She was thirty four
years old and didn't match the description of either the girl or the older women. Apart from her now
There's nothing linking this person to the alleged ghosts. So if
this isn't the real sally. Who is
now there's one more possibility, but the source is a local legend that has really
in this story. Sally was a seven year old girl who came to the doctors house one night around the turn of the century. She was in terror,
pain and her mother was frantic after taking a look at her,
doktor believed that she had appendicitis, and so he had to operate immediately to remove her appendix he tried to give her amnesty
but it didn't work so when he cut
into her Sally sat up screaming the doktor.
Have any nurses or assistance to help. He was on his
On here, so he had to continue with the surgery, even though she was wide awake
according to the legend, Sally died right. There on that table in excruciating pain,
This is an interesting story, but it doesn't seem to be true. There aren't any rights.
Herds of a little girl named Sally dying in Acheson around this time to be fair rigour,
keeping wasn't as accurate back then as it is today. So that doesn't necessarily mean there wasn't a sally, but the lack of proofs
it leaves us back at square one after due
for entire episodes on the house. The show is unable to explain what is actually happening. All the
seems to have done is made. The ghost angry right after
sightings crew left. For the last time the pigments, exhausted and disappointed were approached by a media. She offered to
lens the house for them, and they accepted the meat.
Identified three spirits in the house, a little girl, eight through
Meaning older women and another
Spirit who she described as a perfect gentlemen, just before
she cleanse the house. She asked the pigments if they wanted to
Let any of this Spirit stay Deborah.
Chose Sally. Even now, after
everything that happened. She didn't want to abandon her ghost daughter, but something else apparent
he stayed behind as well. In the middle of the cleansing, Tony was attacked. A guy
by the end of the ceremony. There were eight deep scratches across his back and think
did not improve afterwards, if anything, because
using only made the spirit more violent by now,
Tony's mental state was seriously deteriorating. He felt
angry and on edge all the time, but he no longer wants to leave the house. It's like he
but come resigned to it. It's taken him over
been hearing voices at this point for months and at first
where he couldn't understand a word that they were saying
now he could and
We could he understand, then they were telling him to do things. Terrible things things like cats
his wife one morning when Tony was alone in the house. A stray cat got into the kitchen Tony's.
Drinking milk out of its cereal and something about this was
so infuriating to him that he grabbed a butcher knife and stabbed the cat dad. He then took the bull
down on the couch totally unmoved. The only thing he could think was Deborah is next
When we come that I'll look at what finally convince the pigment to move out before it was too late now back to the story:
in a two thousand eighteen interview with the podcast astonishing legends Tony says he doesn't remember killing the cat in his kitchen. He says it happened while he was blacked out when he came in,
the kitchen later on and saw the dead cat lying there. He snapped
ACT to his senses. This was a wake. Up,
all four tony. The disturbing thoughts running through his head were completely out of his control and if he didn't do something soon, it might be Deborah that he killed next or even the baby. He made sure to clean everything up,
or Deborah got home, so he didn't scare her, but Tony was resolved at that point they needed to get out of this house.
Two days later, he was walking out of their bedroom. When something pushes him,
into the staircase show hard that he breaks three railings. He also
goes over the banister and down the stairs when he calls
Britain tells her somehow this is what finally gets through to her. Whatever is in
This house is not cute, it's not harmless, it is trying to kill them. Both
so two weeks later. The pigment finally moved out today
It means are still married and they still live in Acheson, just a mile or so from that house, and even though twenty five years have passed, there still haunted by their
Sperience, they no longer believe the house is haunted by just the run of the mill ghost they think the true culprit is endemic
Tony was actually the first to suspect that while they were living in the house, the attacks he suffered were examined.
What you'd expect from a demonic oppression as it's called bruises or scratches form. Seemingly out of nowhere been there
the voices he hurt and the UN's
tolable violent thoughts. If you remember the episode I did on the exercise of Anna Ackland, those are typical hallmarks of demonic possession.
Question is why
Tony the main target instead a Debra
he says it was simply because he was the weaker person in the house, but it also could have been something to do with his catholic beliefs. Remember demons supposedly hate anything that has to do with religion. In fact, the catholic church believes that demand
oppression tends to happen to people who are closest to God. It was
common thing for saints to suffer through, for example, but does it mean
Deborah, wasn't targeted at all. She believed,
the demon possessed her to it, made her indifferent to the abuse being suffered by her husband, something she still has trouble for giving herself for to this day. But the
even isn't the only spirit in the house there still
Sally Ann. The
the woman who the pigments believe are regular old ghosts of people who died there. They theorize
the demon is holding the spirits there against their will and using them as a front to lure people in
We saw this happened with Deborah Sally was so cute and endearing that she completely ignored all of the dark
stop. That was happening in the house by the time, either of them
We realise that there might be something dangerous going on. The demon already had its grip over them
even though the pigments moved out the spirits didn't not. There were a few.
Their tenants over the next few years, but none of them
stayed for long delay,
Lord said that one tenant saw the little girl in the house and moved out after only one week by two thousand,
were the house was vacant. After all, he was sort of famous from the sightings episodes, and a few other paranormal investigation shows that came through the owner had turned
over to the Chamber of Commerce, and today the city rents it out for tours they billet as the most haunted
who's in adjutant, which I dont think is a stretch, a lot of tourists and
whose hunters come out of the house, convinced that they felt something or seen something or even been touched by something they talk about here,
voices, laughter footsteps, even children's giggling, and it got the recordings to back it up an e p,
or electronic boys phenomenon is a time for a sound that is picked up on an audio recording with
no known origin. Often too,
times they sound like human voices, saying very clear, distinct words and phrases according to Paris
one investigators bees are the voices of spirit who are somehow able to influence the recording equipment.
Needless to say, the Sadly House has created its fair share of GDP recordings and easy
he, specialist name. Renee Liker was able to identify seventeen different spirit, voices inside the house, men, women and children. But the way these
hoardings. Our meat is a little bit unreliable.
Unknown sounds appear on electronic recordings. I mean aspire.
Labour using older equipment is usually because of mechanical problems with the device itself either the
chronic shielding is malfunctioning and you're, picking up interference or the new
reduction filter is glitches and creating noise. Artifacts garbled sounds that weren't actually bear originally what you end up with
kind of sound like a human voice. If that's what you're? Looking for this,
scientists call confirmation by us your expecting to see something. Your brain
will do what it can to make sure you see it, or in this case here it for exam
Well, if a psychic comes to your house and tells you you have a ghost you'll, probably chalk up, every
strange noise and bizarre temperature drop to that ghost, whereas, if you
spoken to the psychic. You might not even notice these occurrences in the first place, but considering
The huge range of things that happened to Tony and Deborah inside this house. It seems hard
dismiss all of this as confirmation by us. Whatever was happy
he was real enough to cause them to move out of their home.
There doesn't seem to be any logical explanation for how objects were moving on their own or for Tony's spontaneous injuries devil
and stand by their experience today. In fact, they still are
free of this thing, Tony
woken up on the couch to find his clothes on fire. He seen butcher knife
Do the air narrowly missing his face and he
still feels in unexplainable pool to go back to that house.
One night, he even woke up finding himself standing in front of the Sally House. He walked almost ten blocks.
Through the snow to get there in his sleep.
And he's not alone in this, some people who have.
The house claim that a presence has followed them home in state,
than four weeks. Sometimes
months, even just watching waiting appearing in the corner of their eyes, the pigment advise people to just steer clear of the
it could lure anyone in just like it did then. But of course this only makes
haunted tours more popular, so the next time your travels. Take you to Kansas, you might want to think
twice before stepping inside the Sally House, it knows who you are,
knows what you want, and it has no problem showing
in all other part, castor regional, for free on Spotify Spotify has all your favorite music and pod cas all in one.
Besides, if supernatural and all other part cast originals for free on Spotify Spotify has all
favorite, music and podcast, all in one place and they're, making it easier to listen to whatever you wanna hear for free on your phone, computer or smart speaker,
and if you like the show, follow at par cast on Facebook and Instagram at Park Ass network on Twitter supernatural,
was created by MAX Cutler and Stars, Ashley flowers and a Parker Studios original its executive produced
sound designed by carry Murphy with production assistance by IRAN, Shapiro and Karl. Imagine this episode
for natural is written by Joanna Philippine with writing assistants by drew corps.
Dear more stories hosted by new check out crime junkie in audio Chuck, originals.
Transcript generated on 2020-06-28.