In 1991, singer-songwriter Pam Reynolds underwent a daring operation to remove a life-threatening aneurysm. Afterwards, Pam was able to describe the entire procedure in detail… even though she was clinically dead throughout.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
What happens after we die for many people. This question is unanswerable, but in the case of PAM Reynolds she knew because she been there. In fact, out of all the near death experience as people have reported, PAM story is the most famous. It happened while she was in the operating room under close medical watch. The doctors who are there could confirm that pm was clinically dead when her experience happened. Yet she was able to just
cried the things that happen during her surgery, with almost perfect clarity and of all the near death experience is out there. Hers just might be the most believable
This is supernatural power cast original, and I'm your host
Shelly flowers, every Wednesday I'll be taking a deep down.
Into a real unexplained mystery to try and figure out the truth you can find all episodes of super now
rural and all other par cast originals for free on Spotify, and if you like what your hearing reach out on Facebook and Instagram at PAR cast and twitter at PAR cast network. This week's episode is about Pm Reynolds a singer who
came back from the dead. With tales about the other side, though,
several scientists have tried to debunk pm story. There is yet to be an answer to what truly happened.
We try to sort it out ourselves coming up stay with us
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old was famous, in addition to being a singer. Songwriter herself, she owned a company that recorded musicians like Bruce Springsteen and Pearl JAM, PM's career and her cosy suburb.
Life meant that she was pretty happy, but then on a high
summer day. Ninety ninety one PAM suddenly forgot how to talk and I'm not sure whether p
I'm just couldn't make sound or if she was totally forgetting the words in her head, but either way pm
disturbed by this. The loss of speech is,
her only symptom either pretty soon pan,
struggling with extreme dizziness and difficulty moving. Her body is unclear how frequent these episodes happen or whether it was constant but
knows that she has to see a doctor,
after an MRI, her worst fears are confirmed. She has allowed
large aneurysm, even worse,
Its located on pans, brain stem, the area that controls fundamental wife functions like swallowing and breathing,
This means that operating on the aneurysm is particularly dangerous. One tiny mistake and PAM could lose the ability to breathe on her own or eat without a medical aid, but PAN doesn't really have a choice accords
two doctors she's a ticking time bomb and at
moment the aneurysm could rupture and PAM would be dead. Pam refuses such a diet,
fate, so she opts for the surgery. She makes an appointment at the barrel,
Institute in Arizona where she meets with a neurosurgeon named Doktor Robert Bachelor doctors. Bachelor tells PAM that her.
Aneurysm, is so large and located in such a precarious position that a normal operation actually could be fatal. So instead he proposes what
called a standstill operation in this speech.
Medical magic. He would basically drain all of the blood from hams. Head
we'll her body down to sixty degrees, Fahrenheit and stop her heart from beating. This will prevent pans blood from pumping and reduce
the risk of her aneurysm rupturing during surgery. Basically, doctors bachelor is going to kill pm and then bring her back to life
now standstill operations have been performed since nineteen fifty two, but there still
extremely dangerous, with a mortality rate of around twelve percent still PAM. We
we have a better option. So, on a bright,
August morning she takes in antiseptic shower, and then the nurses help him onto a gurney. Then they roller
to the operating room. They help her onto a table.
And tie her legs and arms down, then her eyes or taped shut and
reading tube is inserted into her windpipe. Lastly, ear buds are placed into pants ear
and they emit allowed clicking to monitor the neural waves in her brain with everything in place.
Doctors administer Anastasia in PAM, slowly, slips out of consciousness, but in order for the daring,
nation to be as safe as possible. The doctors need to make absolutely certain that PAM doesn't wake up
so they inject her with a huge dose of barbecue it with the ear, but they are able to watch the tranquilizers completely knock out.
My brain function, her neural waves, disappear, stampeding buffalo could bar
into the operating room and pm wouldn't wake up. I mean she is completely out it's at this moment
twenty person, medical team files into the room there all there
ensure that pm makes it back from her journey to the other side, this team of doctors help swath, pan and cooling blankets packed with ice. This is to help lower her body heat. Then they thread a long been catheter through her jugular vein and into her heart. Her cardio thoracic surgeon hooks this up to a heart lung machine when pans body is at a chilling, sixty degrees, doctors bachelor injects her with a
dose of potassium chloride. This stops pans hard, meaning that not only does she have no brainwaves. She also has no heart beats. So, for all intents and purposes, at this point pm
dead as if that's not crazy enough, though doctors, bachelor drained all of the blood from palms had one
there's no more risk. A blood causing the aneurysm to rupture doctors bachelor begins his surgery. The first thing PAM hears is the buzzing of.
Real as doctors, bachelor saws open her school
the singer. Songwriter describes it as sounding like a perfect natural d and just declare
something crazy here. I'm at this point pm hand
no brainwaves, no heart beat. She is still dead.
We're school is literally being sod open, so none of this makes any sense, but pm not only here's, the buzzing sheep
those as though the sound is pulling
something inside of her. It's like a fish hook, some deep into her car
next target at her soul and the key.
You're the sound, gets the stronger. The pole is until finally PAM feels herself pop right out of the top of her head.
She has a strange sort of clarity. I she floats out of her body. She feels herself drift above the operating tape
Until she's hovering somewhere near the ceiling from this height, PAM can see everything happening below the operating table, the tools even her own body, all of it as clear as day
The first thought that registers to PAN is the number of people in the room. She recognizes doctors bachelor
Almost everyone else is a stranger. The next thing, pen
notices is her hair. They had shaved one side of her head to perform the operation of the law,
I think she register's is the drill.
Oh and doctors bachelors hand PM things. It looks
more like an electric toothbrush than an actual surgical tool, then PAM, here's, the Cartier.
Surgeon say that the arteries in her thigh,
two small- and this confuses her because
pm doesn't understand what her thigh has to do with her brain surgery. It never occurred to pay em at any point that this is all very strange. She sorted just
takes the fact that she's looking down at her dead body at face value and at that point pm feel
the strong pulling sensation again, the doctors
operating room pans body on the table, it all jerks away and PAM feels herself get sucked into a dark shaft. It's like she's in.
Elevator that's going up very quickly and this time the sharp
pulling sensation is accompanied by a voice is actually calling to PAM and pm. Recognizes it. It's her deceased grandmother. Now
This is actually extremely common with near death, experiences or Andy ease. The people who have them often described
Seeing and hearing the voices of their long dead, loved ones for pay this
of her grandmothers, familiar voice ridds, her of any fear. It allows her to calmly travel up the pitch black shaft. Then suddenly she sees a pin prick
light and it gets brighter and brighter the higher she Klein's until it becomes a glare. She, instead
simply tries to put her hands up to shield her eyes but pm surprise to find that she doesn't
surely have any hand she can't see any of her body for that matter. She's, just a floating consciousness like
in unmoored soul, PAN begin
is to discern figures in the light she sees her dead
grandmother her great great aunt, Maggie her uncle Jean all of them are bathed in a bright light, am asks her relatives. If the light is God and they tell her it, isn't they explain that the light is actually gone,
breath and this oz pan she's, moved by the thought that she is standing in the breath of God.
In the longer she's beer, the more she wants to stay so
She is alarmed when her uncle suddenly says that she has to return to her body. Pamela,
currently lets him led her back through the dark, shaft all the
down until the operating room is visible again, but on site
her body down on the table. Pam hesitates, she's, disgusted by the thought of climbing back inside, of
corpse, but her uncle insists. He says: it'll be job,
like diving into a swimming pool as there talking pay,
seize the surgical team below trying to revive her they're using it
paper later to administer shocks which strikes PAM as really unpleasant. She said
since that returning to her body will hurt and she wants no part of it. She keeps
leading with her uncle until. Finally, he just gives her a shop
hey, I'm senses her consciousness, bawling as though from a high diving board. She feels her body.
As the surgical team delivers, another ventricular shock and just like that, PAM comes back to life.
Coming up will explore whether PAM really experienced life after death. I supernatural listeners. I wanted to jump in here real quick to make sure that you knew something new is coming something big. I produce a show called Counter clock and last season I teamed up with investigative journalist, Delia De Amber,
Together, we made thirteen episodes about the unsolved murder of a woman named Denise Johnson because of Delia reporting and the thing she uncovered the officials in charge of Denise his case say that it's now actively being re investigated, but we aren't done yet starting September, tenth, the first two episodes of season
You are dropping and you won't even believe the wild twists and turns that this season takes because technically the case we're looking at is closed, but it's possible. The wrong man was convicted purely due to racial bias and the killer Michael.
Be walking free go binge season one. Now, while you wait for season two to start on September, TAT because hint hint there might be some people from season, one who come black to play a part even in a completely new case, search for counter clock on Spotify or wherever you get you
Podcast two been she's in one and listen to the trailer for season to season to comes out September. Tenth so go now, that's counter clock all one word and you can find it on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast
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Go pushes her PAM knows she's alive. She can tell because she can hear the Eagles iconic song hotel. California
you're playing on the radio in the O. R Pam still has the clicking ear bud, so she shouldn't be able to hear anything, but the tune is just
deemed its lyrics, hit the singer songwriter in a different way than it ever has. As the eagles croon, you can check out
any time you like, but you can never leave in the weeks
PAM surgery. She still vividly remembered her experience, but for some reason she doesn't share it with any one. In fact,
P M assumes that the whole thing didn't even happened. She thinks it was just a
hallucination, maybe some bizarre dream that she had right before she gained full consciousness, but then
one year after the surgery pan casually mentioned said, Doktor Roberts bachelor some of the details that she remembers from what she thought was her hallucination and specula is stunt everything p
says matches almost exactly what transpired in the operating room there. Really
We were twenty people in the room, the doctors really,
did discuss, pans, arteries being too small, this
they used did resemble an electric tooth brush and hotel. California was
playing on the radio doctors, but
there's, never seen or heard anything like this, and he can't explain it from a scientific perspective,
makes zero sense. His reaction causes pm
You take her memories more seriously, so she contacts Doc
Michael save on a cardiologist who researches near death, experiences doctor, say
arm is immediately fascinated by pants case. With her permission, he accesses palms medical files. He too confirms that
hams, description of the surgery was accurate and he's unable to explain.
Help. Him knows any of these details, I mean even if she had been conscious
He wouldn't have seen or heard anything save on ultimately concludes that there
I do have been some sort of extra sensory perception at work, in other words, pm
able to somehow perceive things with her unconscious mind and she's, not the
the one with this experience,
every year. There are thousands of people who report
Now this name is a bit of a misnomer, since many people who have Andy ease weren't actually totally dead when their experience happened. But there are some people like PAM who actually
did die and then come back to life,
and, in general, all these people call themselves experiences
according to a Gallup poll, nearly eight million Americans claim that they are an experience. Are these aren't just people looking for free
even celebrities have chimed in with their own tales of life after death, for example, into
Cousin wine, one actress, Sharon Stone, was engulfed by a boar tax of white light during a brain hemorrhage that almost left her dead, sharing described. Her
de as beautiful. She says she interacted with deceased friends and loved ones and when she wrote
and from the other worldly plain, she realized she was no longer afraid of death. All in all
experience, sounds a lot
like palms in his book transformed by the light PETE
attrition, Doktor Melvin Moors outline some key traits that characterize a full blown and D. The first
a clear sense of being dead. This is usually accompanied.
By an out of body experience where someone feels there consciousness or their sole flowed out of their body. Several people, like PAM, also described travelling up
through a tunnel talking too long deceased, loved ones and feeling an all encompassing sense of peace and well be. They report
wanting to return to their dead bodies or their complicated lives back on earth, and there is one final, common trade that crops up in most Andy S, delight
four p m. The celestial light was the most profound part of her near death experience. She remembers it as the breath of God,
Sharon's stone called it a whole white light thing, but these words are team,
when compared to some of the things that others have said, some eggs
berry enters report talking with angels and running with beings of light,
on me and even said that he sat on Jesus Christ lap. He says he was
all of Christ Majesty and that they stared lovingly into each other's eyes some people, even clay
that their end II was so powerful. They were forever changed as a result, and this was actually the case with
ACT or Tracy Morgan on June, seven,
two thousand fourteen, a huge truck slate,
into Tracy's car killing his friend and plunging tree,
see into a near fatal coma. While he's out Tracy goes to Heaven there.
He speaks with his long deceased father
conversation ended, we Tracy's dad saying I'm not ready for you, then he
ass, Tracy to return back to life like Sharon and pay
Tracy's been deeply affected by his experience. From that point on, he says I love you upwards of two hundred times a day
I mean he'll, say to family members, friends even strangers on the street tracy
so begins to revel in the simple things taking his daughter to dance class and hanging out with his wife.
He says, is Andy: helped him tap into humanity. It reawakened
stayed in his fellow man.
Tracy's, not just being mushy his life, changing experience and palms and Sharon's gels
What researchers are uncovering about, Andy's as a whole, they found that experts.
Hurry answers often do go on
to live very different lives than the ones that they were leading alcoholics.
And suddenly stopped drinking atheists big
extremely spiritual work. Colleagues decide to spend more
time with their families. It's like they
when a sudden personality change and there is reason to think it might be because of another change, one that doesn't make any sense.
In two thousand a neuroscientist they Mario Beauregard, decided to study the phenomenon of near death experiences in a scientific setting, so he invites
berry answers into his lap there,
Mario attaches electrodes see their head and he asked them to just think about their end d.
This allows Mario to watch their corresponding brainwave activity on his monitor. He hopes this will tell him if people's brains have actually chain
since their near death experience
Mario subjects is a man called GEO Bay, Dar G
We had a near death incident where his heart stopped and he claims to have interacted with twelve beings of light before fully coming back to life. All in
a pretty standard story for in your death experience so more
is situated deal in his lab. Then he attaches thirty two electrodes to his head and asked him to her called the twelve beings of light. Just think hard about that memory. He says
He'll obliges in moral watches his brainwaves, and what he sees is astounding.
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As Mario monitors to see he is shocked to see all slowed, neural
the way down his narrow
Timmy resembles that of some one in a deep sleep, not a person,
this. Why a wig with a bunch of wires attached to their head and it doesn't
make any sense. When people are awake, their brainwaves are,
constant motion darting around as their minds skips from thought. The thought. The only people
with neural maps like Jill's are catholic nuns or buddhist monks
we who have spent hours or even days in focused meditation their brainwaves.
Permanently change because of their spiritual practice. So it seems like by simply just thinking of the light gene
is able to mimic a meditative state that takes most people decades to achieve,
Mario goes on to observe other experiences and sure enough. There are plenty of them with neural maps like jewels in
and moral can only come to one conclusion that near death, Exe
variances, open some sort of gateway,
inside of experiences, one that allows them to connect more easily with a calm spiritual round. However, not all Andy Ease are positive:
some experiences have stories that are downright traumatic.
Stressing near death. Experiences aren't as common its positive ones, but they're not exactly rear either they usually fall into three categories.
The first is what researcher Nancy Evans Bush calls the inverse Andy
These cases people report the usual floating out of their bodies and seeing beings of light, but, unlike PAM, they aren't filled with a sense of well being instead, their free time.
Which, if you think about it, makes total sense. No one wants to look down at their own dead body. Now,
another one is called the void in these
then there is no light. There are no feelings of love. There is only a deep sense of despair.
One woman recalls suddenly flying over the hospital into a deep, empty space in the void.
Surrounded by ominous circular shakes. They tell her she's,
ever existed. They say that the
maybe that she just gave birth to the hospital, isn't real either they whisper
that her memories, the people she's known and loved. All of it is a mere fabrication.
From the way she describes it, these voices, or at least what they're telling her seem almost demonic as though there are others
virtual beings on the other side's ones. That aren't you
Jos or relatives. There are still
other experiences who found themselves sucked into a literal void. One may
described it as waking up in a sort of endless darkness, in
boy. He had no idea which way is up which we is down and he was surrounded by complete nothingness, which, if you think about it, is really freaky. If that was just oblivion, a light switch turned off and then you're gone. That's one thing, but to be awake in sight of the darkness, I mean that
a whole different level of terrifying, and some experiences claim that this is exactly what happened to them.
One man says that he felt his spirit leave his body, except he didn't float
into an embrace of welcoming white light like pan. Instead, he fell
lunching do the bottom of the earth until he found himself standing at a set of high rusty gates and instantly. He knows there, the gates of hell. What happens next isn't totally
clear, but he claims he was somehow able to dig his way out scrambling and clawing till he gets back to earth.
Another woman claims she had an even more terrifying experience in Hell.
Not only does she go there, but she describes smelling horrible stench and here
inhuman noise. It it sounded like
guttural moaning coming at her from all sides before she
run. She found herself surrounded by demonic beings with gray gelatinous appendages. She said they tore at her ripping her skin.
Ultimately, these stories raised the same uncomfortable question as the more positive Andy's. Is there really a heaven or hell
do experiences actually have insight about these places or are all eight
million of them just chain was opportunists, because,
One thing is certain: is that Andy's make great stories and
great stories make for killer book deals.
Neurosurgeon Ebon Alexander's book proof of Heaven.
The word to celestial height, reaching number one on the New York Times best seller list. He claims that he spoke with God,
interacted with angelic beings, while in a medically induced Coma
Doktor Mary Niels book to Heaven in back is equally heavy on angels. She claims
talk to seraphic beings following a near fatal kayak incident and just like Alexander's
her story hit the best seller shells, which makes total sense. Both
Alexander and Neil are scientific professional. So, if anyone's end II can be trusted, its there's or maybe their job,
jobs provided a convenient cover in makes their stories seem more believable, but
would be most successful books in the Heaven tourism genre isn't written by a doctor, the authors.
A young boy named Alex Malarkey and his father. It's called the boy who came back from Heaven. The book is
published in two thousand and ten when Alex is twelve years old, but it speaks to an event from when he was just six years old. Alex claims that, after mobile
terribly dying in a horrific car crash, an angel guided him to Heaven. He said the gates of Paradise, booked.
And scaly like the body of a fish, and why
inside Alex claims. He spoke to Jesus Christ. Maybe it's the inner
and of Alex's age, but people are convinced. His story is true. The boy who came back from Heaven
cells over a million copies its adapted.
To a tv movie, people all over America or captivated by this little boys experience there's only one problem. None of it is true.
Just five years after the book is published, Alex Right an open letter stating that the entire book was a lie according to him, he made it up because he wanted attention Alex publishers quickly, pull them.
From the shelves, but it's important to remember that this is just one case out of many. There are hundreds more tales in
having tourism genre. That have yet to be debunked, and maybe it
easier to assume that people are simply looking for a quick profit which brings us back to PAM Reynolds
Her story is especially difficult to make sense of
She never seems to try and profit off her story, no books, no Hollywood films and in that problem is
more representative of the north, of the millions of people who claim that they ve had
near death experience only a view.
A small fraction try to profit from it, which has to account for something. Besides all these people have the same thing in common. They are convinced that what happened to them was real, but what, if there's a different explanation, a scientific one?
Some researchers think that the whole out of body experience is the result of damage in a certain area of a person's brain according to them
Reynolds Soul didn't really pop out of her head. She only felt that way because of some sort of brain trauma.
Still doesn't explain how PAM was able to recall such specific details, things that
Her senses were literally blocked from picking up on it.
The only way any of it makes sense scientifically is if she wasn't
We did after all, Austin?
in researcher Gerald Worley things. This was the case with PAN
in a two thousand nine interview, Worley theorize, that the minute it doctor specula cut independence, skull it jolted her back in December
just as allowing her to overhear the conversations in the room ass for
anesthesia and the ear buds Worley has an explanation. He says pm was likely. Exe
burying saying, what's known as Anastasia Awareness, when a person is awake, but they can actually move
Morally, also things pans, ear buds, just work tight fitting enough, but even if that was the case, it still doesn't explained the things palms
How could she have known that the drill looked like an electric toothbrush Worley explain
this by saying the drill sounded like an electric tooth brush and that pan was able to composite an image together.
In her brain based on the noise alone, which
No, no, it seems like this is grasping a bit for an explanation and it still doesn't explain the other fantastical things that path and the other near death experiences claim that they see PAM, for one was convinced that her experience was real until her death
She does intend cheeky, be exact, same story. She
we did die on the operating table. She felt her consciousness leave her body. She talked to her deceased grandmother and uncle she stood in the breath of guide. A number of scientists have tried to refute pans claims and none of them have been
well to explain what happened in the end will never understand why PAM Reynolds was able to see, even though her eyes were tape, shot or why she could hear, even though her ears were plugged
and will never know whether the stories that pan and millions of other experiences have tried to tell us about the afterlife or actually trip at least not until
we ourselves die for most of us, it's life's final mystery.
Thanks for listening I'll be back next week with another episode, you can find all episodes of supernatural and all other park ass originals for free on Spotify Spotify has all
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supernatural was created by MAX Cutler and Stars Ashley flowers and is a park studios original its executive produced by MAX Color
sound designed by carrying Murphy with production assistance by RON, Shapiro and Karl. Imagine this episode.
Where natural was written by obviate jelly ADI may go with writing assistance by K Gallagher in your call,
to hear more stories hosted by me check out, crying junkie and all audio chuck, originals.
Transcript generated on 2020-09-08.