« Supernatural with Ashley Flowers

MYSTICAL: The Pollock Twins


When his two daughters died in a tragic accident, John Pollock prayed for a miracle that would bring them back. Less than a year later, his wife gave birth to twins who defied the odds of genetics. The only clear explanation? Reincarnation.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
The death of a loved one can feel unfair or even unnatural. We say things like on two soon or though always be with us, because it's so hard to believe will never see them again: especially when the deceased person is a child in nineteen, fifty seven a couple named John and Florence Pollack lost both their daughters in a tragic accident. It was their worst night where come true and the Pollux would have done anything to have their girls back then, just one year later Florence gave birth to twins and the similarities between them older sisters were uncanny suggest
thing that perhaps the dead aren't really gone. Maybe they're reincarnated This is supernatural Spotify a from her cast, I'm your hosting they flowers everywhere his day I'll, be taking a deep dive into a real unexplained occurrence to try and figure out the truth you can fly all episodes of supernatural and all other Spotify originals from par cast for free on Spotify this week, we're looking at two cases the Pollack and, and and alaskan boy named, Corliss Chart Kin Junior in each instance a matching birthmark might be the
key to proving that reincarnation really does exist and that death is actually only the beginning will have more on the twins coming up stay with us. This episode has brought You buy blue aproned dinner time should help you unwind not cause more stress blue apron. Let Few unwind in the kitchen, with nutritious Jeff, approved recipes that feed your butt. Mary sue your mind and no she also the best part meal start at just seven. Forty nine a serving get eighty dollars off across your first for deliveries and distress with simple, delicious dinners visit, blue apron, Decamp, slash supernatural: that's blue apron, dotcom, slash supernatural
This episode is brought to you by Ford have one fifty the only weapon Fifty is available with seven point two kilowatts of best in class onboard power. That's enough to power. A big Green tv loudspeakers refrigerator, massage chair Electric Eater, and even your beloved nodules cheese warmer all at once, introducing the all new twenty twenty one forward up one fifty tough, this smart can only be called up one fifty explore the all new twenty twenty one up, one fifty at board dot com, slash drugs, slash one fifty glasses full size. Pick ups ponder eighty five hundred bounds. Gb W are donors manual for important operating instructions. If your tuning in it's safe to assume you like stories that send chills down your spine,
but only when the stories are well just stories for peace of mind, considered aid De as the leader in homes, security, eighty t provides twenty four seven rapid response, monitoring from their nine owned and operated call centres So the only thing you have to worry about is the Wifi connection to keep listening learn more at eighteen dot com, in nineteen forties England, a woman named Florence meets a man named John Pollack, the two fell in love, get married and they run a grocery business and answer, ass. They attend church now, John, was raised in the church of England, but he converts to Roman Catholicism with Florence, and presumably
both believe in the tenants of Christianity like original sin baptism and heaven and Hell beliefs. They play on passing down to their children in nineteen. Thirty six foreign gives birth to their first daughter, Joanna and fight years later. Jaclyn is born Joe wanna in Jaclyn are both healthy and happy girls. Many sisters, they rarely leave each other sides. They love to play dolls come each other's hair, but just six years later tragedy strikes by now the family is living in the small british town of heck. Some Joanna is eleven and Jaclyn is six. The two of them walking to Sunday School one day when suddenly a car spins into the sidewalk and crushes them both against a wall? Joanna and Jaclyn are killed almost instantly
to make matters worse, the driver that hit them was suicidal. She die, but she was later sent to a psychiatric institute. Apparently it came out. she just lost her own to children in custody dispute and accord. to John she'd, specifically singled out Joanna and Jack when on the sidewalk thinking she killed. Then, as some sort of cars retaliation, Pollux obviously are devastated. Despite everything his church believes about the finality of death and heaven and Hell job I insist that his daughters, we'll be reincarnated, it's not clear exactly when he in believing that sport, apparently he tells it to Florence and continue to insist like he knows, he's pushing her buttons and its honestly. Probably we to him too, but he can't help, but he just has this feeling forms is a bit more pro,
to call. Of course. She would do anything to have her little girls back, but at a certain point they need to let go so she packs of the clothes and toys and begins to bon and an early nineteen, fifty eight less than a year after Joanna and Jack ones, death. She becomes pregnant. This riles up John even more. He is convinced that Florence is pregnant with their reincarnated daughters and that she's gonna had twins for dinner. doktor, like yeah right twins, are medically impossible. Given her and Johns genetic histories. It's really. Really unlikely, then, on October fourth, nineteen fifty eight Four and a half after the accident Florence gives birth. And sure enough. One baby comes out and then a second two twin girls, the Pollux name them Gillian and Jennifer. So all right,
The Florence is like, but little free like how on earth did John predict this. At the very least, it feels like some sort of answer to prayer and not long your birth. They noticed something peculiar about the youngest twin Jennifer she's got a birthmark just above her note which wouldn't be strange on its own except that Jack. When the younger of the two dead sisters had a scar. In that exact same spot, you see, it three she'd fallen on a bucket and gotten three stitches and the left off scar, looked exactly like Jennifer's birthmark, The public's also noticed something on Jennifer's left waste. this one's a tiny birthmark, basically a more but strange because you guessed it Jaclyn had one the exact same spot now Joe
probably sees this Ngos. Yes, there's proof. The twins have to be Joanna and Jaclyn, but Florence isn't convinced for one. The birth marks only on Jennifer. It's not really evidence of anything at all So it's got to be painful to just keep bringing up their deceased daughters in this way. So around the time the twins are born. Florence and John agree not to talk about Joanna and Jaclyn in front of the twins No, the conversation is probably something like here. We have beautiful daughters. Let's just be grateful and start over as far as I know, John does shut up about the whole reincarnation thing when the twins are infringed the pie let's move out of access to a sea side. Town called Whitley Bay is probably thus the change of scenery, they need to make a fresh start, but as the girls get older, John
and formed noticed some odd characteristics. First, it's their physical dispositions Jill in the elder twin is fairly then, just like Joanna the older of the deceased sisters and the younger Twin Jennifer is bigger and stock here, as was Jaclyn when the girl begin walking. Their similarities only intensify the older. World Gillian walks with her feet turned outward just like Joanna Debt, which again could just be a coincidence but by the time they are three years old and talking it's not just the. Physical stuff, anymore. The twin actually start having memories about them, only Joanna and Jaclyn would have known first, it's an old box of toys he's inside of it- are two different dolls. One up
want to Juliana and one that belong to Jacquin and sure enough Gillian claims. The older sisters, Doll and Jennifer takes the younger one. Then the twins comment that the dolls were into them by Santa Claus which isn't true for that, but it was true for joy. in Jaclyn. This is just the first of the strange things that they remember later when the twins are four years old. The family takes a trip back to Hack SAM, strolling through their town on their way to a park when Julian Jennifer start talking about a swing said that's inside the park and also a near by school, and this as before, they can even see them now the twins- did live in packs them until they were nine months. Also technic e bay had visited the park before and they probably pass the school. Multiple times the lake,
four year old, remembers things from when they were nine months. All that's just unheard up to Jain its further proof that the twins aren't remembering this stuff from their own lives. He thinks the memories belonged to Joanna and Jack Land before they died as the twin get older, even their behaviour, you're mirrors, their older sisters when they learn how to write. Jennifer holds her pencil incorrectly in her face to just like Jaclyn hat, and of course there is the best. we're dynamics Jennifer really dependent on her older twin Gillian. She basically followed her around similar to how Jaclyn had been with Joanna again, like all of this could just be coincidence. A lot of kids hold their pencils in their first when their learning, how to write and taking orders from your older sister, is pretty normal sibling behaviour like none of this is Proof of reincarnation until
one day when Florence sees Jennifer resting her head and Julian's hands, the girls are talking and ass. Florence listens. She realizes it's about something that they couldn't possibly have. No It was never discussed with the girls they're talking about the accident that killed them coming up. The Pollack twins. Remember their accident you discover their practices, seek their advice and let yourself become more vulnerable than ever before they, the ability to heal what the doctors can't, or so they say HI listeners is Vanessa from the park, has serious cults, be sure, did our four part special on miracle healers airing right now me
figures from around the world who claimed powers and pushed remedies, but harboured more sinister intentions, you don't want to miss it and if you're looking for more episodes are the most radical and deadly groups in history. Tuning the calls every Tuesday from Jim Jones, in the people's Temple to Charles Man, seven and the man and family to Keith, remarry and next cm you'll uncover the unscrupulous methods used to turn bright eyed recruits entered, die hard. Believers follow this: I defy original from PAR cast cults. Freons, The fine or wherever you get your podcast visible though it is brought to you by Ford, have one fifty the only weapon. Fifty is available with seven point two kilowatts of best in class onboard power. That's enough to power. A big green tv loudspeakers refrigerator, massage Chair Electric Eater
and even your beloved nodules cheese warmer all at once. Introducing the all new twenty twenty one forward up one fifty tough, this smart can only be called apple and fifty explore the all new twenty twenty one up, one, fifty at board dot com, slash drugs, slash one fifty glasses, full size. Pick ups ponder eighty five hundred bounds. Gb W are the owners manual for important operating instructions. Now back to the story when Florins overhears, the twins there talking the accident as if they actually lived through it I'm not sure what exact words they use. But Jennifer's head is laying in Julian's hands and Julian looks down. She says she can. See blood trickling down her face from where the car hit her. This matches up with how Joanna and Jaclyn accident happened,
even though she was pronounced dead at the scene, paramedics had put a bandage right above Jacqueline's eyes. Obviously this wouldn't be quite so strange. Had John in Florence been talking about the accident all these years, but remember they supposed We decided not to discuss the crash or their two older daughters in front of the twins, so there's no way Gillian and Jennifer should know about it with the memory of the ash seems to play out, even in their day to day lives. When the twins encounter a car on the street, they artist cautious their terrified and if they unexpectedly here a car start up, they will literally grab onto each other and shake with beer, somehow the girls even cry out when they see a car thinking that it's coming for them specifically at this point, Florence is just as convinced as John the twins
to be the reincarnation of Joanna and Jaclyn. There's just no other way to explain it. In the early nineteenth sixties, local newspaper gets wind of the poor. twins and runs a story on that. For John, in Florence, it's probably validating, but it doesn't help their credibility at church. around the time the stories published they start receiving nasty letters from other parishioners, a machine What these letters say or how John in Florence respond, but to get so bad that they decide to leave their church Meanwhile, their story attracts attention from a doctor, name in Stevenson No, I mentioned Doktor Stevenson before in a previous episode does I was like the king of reincarnation studies. He spent nearly fifty years at the University of Virginia Psychiatry Department, as both a professor, an department chair and when it Mr Reincarnation research- he is one of
the most highly respected people in his feel. Even for sceptics. In fact, most of Stevenson's work was spent on separating exaggerated cases from believable ones with any one can determine. The twins are actually reincarnated versions of their older sisters. It's this guy, steed and get in touch with the Pollux in nineteen sixty four, when the twins are six years old and he again colleges that Johns desire to see is dead. Daughters again might have clouded his judgment like this could all be job. On reading ended things and getting for to do it to listen. It's even with John in Florence is rule it's possible that the twins overheard them talking at some point about the accident, but when demons and watches the girls behaviour he is unable to abuse, their memories himself, because at this point they pretty much disappeared.
No, this is pretty normal in cases of possible reincarnation, according doktor Stevenson, children almost always completely forget about their past lives at some point between ages, five and eight. It's all part of a author phenomenon called childhood amnesia. Basically, the older, a child, the more they lose their memories from just a few years before. In fact, it's not until about age, seven, that their able to store and retrieve memories like adults it stands to reason that at a certain age, their memory of a past life will just slip away. altogether fortune, Lee, there's one thing of the twins: that Stevenson is able to test and that's their genetics, Stevens and doesn't run this test until nineteen. Seventy eight, when the twins are about twenty years old at this,
Gillian and Jennifer know the whole story themselves, and while they can't remember that part of their childhood, they also don't discredit their parents and apparently, their curious because Doktor Stevenson arranges for them to come in for lab test to determine whether there identical or fraternal twins, now you're like me, it's easy forget witches, which so, basically, if a pair of twins is fraternal, it means that they have different sets of dna from each other, so their differences. Both Physical and behavioral can all be explained by genetic The same way, any pair of siblings can look and act very dissimilar, but if the twins are identical, it means they share virtually if not the exact same dna, so the Pollack family, Doktor Stevenson, all wait for the results and sure enough Gillian and Jennifer are identical
They have the same dna, so they should. Look exactly the same, but they don't not Lee. Is there the birthmark thing, there's the different? Body types no you're probably wondering what does this have to do with Joanna and Jaclyn, and obviously doesn't prove that the twins are the we of their older sisters, but it does, I mean that the difference in their birth marks the fact that Jennifer has to birth marks, whereas Julian has nine defies the basic laws of genetics. According to Doktor Stevenson Gillian should have the same birth barks as her identical twin Jennifer, and yet she doesn't, it turns out that people sharing matching birth marks or scars the chances of that are really low about. Why in one hundred sixty the chances that to birth
occur in a single occasions, one in twenty five thousand in other words, Jennifer. Jaclyn matching birth marks are an incredible coincidence, but in the hundreds of case is that Doctor Stevenson's investigated matching birth parks like the match to Jack scar are present in roughly thirty. Five percent of them so there's gotta be some sort of connection and like before the Pollack twins aren't the only case involving birth marks and possible reincarnation, and they definitely aren't the only case where a child seems to be an exact replica of a deceased family member. This takes us now to Angolan Alaska. In nineteen. Forty five a year before the first Pollack daughter Joanna was born, there's an elm really fishermen and anger, and by the name of Victor Vincent all his life. He spoke
then with the pronounced stouter and in his old age. age. He has fairly advanced tuberculosis. He doesn't have long to live now sure is a member of the twin get people and they have one of the most intense beliefs in reincarnation out of any other indigenous group in North America. So it makes sense He not only assumes he'll be reincarnated some day, but he a believe about who he'll be ring. needed ass. about a year before he dies Victor decides to visit his niece Irene at her home in Sitka Alaska. There talking, and he tells her a little secret- he says quote I'm coming back as your next son. I hope I don't. Other than as much as I do now. Your sign will have these scars end quote. Then Victor live
sub his shirt and shows her two very specific marks on his body, one is on the upper right side of his back. It's probably from a biopsy. Or draining of along abscess the US is near the bridge of his nose underneath his right eye from an operation he had to remove a tear, sack he's that when he reincarnate Irene will recognize him. Because of these two marks in this king of nineteen, forty six victor passes away. A year and a half later Irene gives birth to a baby boy, his name is Corliss Chalk and junior after his father, Irene, husband and joy, As Victor predicted, the boy is born with two distinct birth marks in the eggs exact same location as his great uncle victors even more incredible, the one
Quarrel is his upper back? Doesn't look like the kind of mark a baby should have at all like it's a long gated and has these periphery all kind of Chris crossing marks that look like faded stay. it's just like victors. You could say that the coincidence must somehow be attributed to genetics book coral is only victors Grand nephew so that of them. Sharing similar dna isn't impossible, but it's pretty low and remember Victor's own marks born even genetic. They were the result of two different surgeries. There's no way he could have passed them down through DNA. With the marks on correlates, his body aren't the only things Victor seems to have happened down because later, when he starts talking quarrel, tells his mind that his real name isn't actually Corliss instead He insists that his name is actually Cody and I,
and is dined because cocoon He isn't just some random name. Her toddler made up. It was victors official telling it name coming up. Horrorless becomes more and more like victor. This episode has brought you by blue apron dinner time, should helping unwind not cause more, dress as we had in distress awareness month. Remember, d, keep your body mine and spirit engaged! That's why Blue, apron. Lets you choose how you want to end today, especially That means low maintenance recipes that our big on flavour, not on crap theirs. No access planning or shopping. So you can spend more time being present
and actually enjoy the process of disconnecting and making a home cooked meal. You can always count on blue apron recipes because their chef created, nutritionist, approve and suit a variety of food lifestyles. The best part meal start at just seven. Forty, nine preserving get eighty dollars off across your first for deliveries and distress with simple, delicious dinners visit blue apron, dotcom, slash supernatural. that's blue apron dot. Com slashed supernatural misunderstood, underestimated, affecting thirty nine million people in the? U s alone when a migraine comes knocking dissolved in as little as sixty minutes with a new attack, Odp Remit, Japan, seventy five milligrams, the
a quick dissolve treatment for migraine attacks that can get many people back to normal activities and last up to forty eight hours in just one dose nor tech. Odp, prescription medication for the acute, not preventive treatment of migraine in adults, don't take if allergic to new attack odp them. Common side effect was not for more information, including important safety, information, patient information and prescribing information visit, nor tech dot com. That's an u r t Feed out come talk to your doktor about nor TAT Oh today, now back to the story, We clearly says his real name is Kekui Irene, can't believe it she, in giving quarrel is a twinkle name before this and it's unlikely. He would have known his uncles. Later.
She brings it up to one of her aunts, presumably Victor Sister Anne. Response that, just before poorly birth. She had a dream that Victor was on his way back to live with that. No this part could just be coincidence, like its past will that Victor Sister was influenced by the twin, get belief in reincarnation and that she had been thinking about her brother coming back, which is why she had the dream. Coral is two years old. He his mom or walking to the docks insecure when he points to a woman in the distance and she's pretty far away. first Irene doesnt recognize her, but Corliss does he gets really. Site like bouncing up and down. He start saying things like there's my susie and sure enough. The woman is Susie Victors Step, daughter Gorlias, gives her a big hug and he continued repeating my Susie, my Susie, he even first to Susie by her telling it name, which is just what we
its everyone out but some time later, the same thing happens again correlates I'm a man on the street in Sitka and says there is William. My sign and sure enough, it is victors sign, William These kinds of sightings continue over the next few years, with a total of seven people. Victor would have known once its victors widow another time. It's his friends, coral is recognizes them all. He even uses the pet names that better had called them, despite the fact that supposedly he'd never even met them before a few of these incidents happened without Irene Press, and so we can, even say she was beating him information on the spot, like Corliss acts Lee knows this stuff, as Corliss rose up, he combs his hair. the same style as Vincent he's left handed like Vincent
and he teaches himself the ins and outs of boat engines, a skill neither his father or mother have an interest in but big Der who as a fisherman did, but to me the weirdest and most convincing part is that Corliss speaks with his uncles, exact stutter, remember, Richter had said, quote. I hope I dont stutter then as much as I do now. End quote and just as Victor had wished for coral is his stutter bathes as he gets older. It mainly shows up when he gets excited, like the Pollack twins wireless, his memories of the people and nicknames from victors life pretty much disappear by the time. He's nigh Doktor Steve sin is able to interview Corliss as a teenager, but by then remember what it was like to recognise: victors, family and friends or thinking his name was Cody and doktor. Stephen.
It can only tracked down one of the relatives Corliss spotted as a little boy the others have either passed away. Org declined to comment which that's a little suspicious, but there's still the birth marks, the one releases back, has gotten darker and the one his nose ships down a little bit with age but other than that they're the same, no, I said before out of the hundreds of possible reincarnation cases, Doktor Stevenson. Studies over a third involved marks in some way unfold, Currently there is no proof that matching birth marks exist because of reincarnation, but there are other theories It has to do with an ancient belief, called maternal impressions. Basically, this is the idea that a mother's emotions during pregnancy can imprint on her baby, causing birth marks and other physical abnormalities, the ancient Greeks when so
far as to believe that if a mother looked at her figure like a painting or a statue for long enough, her child would grow up to look like it like if Irene Shotgun spent enough time looking at or even thinking about her uncle victor, his scars would imprint on her fetus worse. His idea has been used in massaging a stick and as ways as a way to blame mothers for their children's disabilities and obviously there's zero science behind it. there's even an old superstition that birth marks are the result of ignoring your pregnancy craving so like if you're really hungry for pizza and you don't eat any pizza, your child could come out with a birthmark in the shape of a New York slice, we do know about birth marks is that they usually come from an overall growth of cells or blood vessels in the womb. But we We aren't sure about much else make reincarnation just
is good of an explanation. Is any end if popular It is any indicator, it's totally possible tourism is the world's third largest religion over one billion people believe in it and Coordination is a central bully, basically goal in life is to create good karma in to advance to a higher more elevated stage in the next life. If you have good enough karma and you keep advancing been eventually you'll die once and for all all achieving ultimate blissful union with God. The process takes. Many cycles, some estimate up to one hundred so until then, whatever don't achieve or accomplish in one life you'll bring to the next. In other words, you get a second chance, that may sound almost two ideal, especially cases like the Pollack, twins and Corliss Chalk and where supposedly they were
turned to their own families, but a court two psychiatrist Doktor Walter Simcoe. This is how it's supposed to happen. Doktor Sim Coup is basically the follow up to even Stevenson in terms of well respected, reincarnation researchers. He believed that when our souls reincarnate, we do so intentionally with member of our so called soul group. In between there last life and the next soul. Group members will actually meet up and coordinate location of their future reincarnation. So there sure to cross pats on earth so like You and a loved one could actually be members of the same soul group who planned to reincarnate as like best friend, there are even siblings. In other words, death isn't b and of our families or relationships, and think of how comforting that my speech
especially if you're, a parent like John Pollack, your young daughters have died in a tragic accident, but you can picture them gather deciding that they'll be reborn back into your family. Who knows, if that's true but if you think about it that way, maybe death isn't as unfair. air or unnatural, as it feels It literally just our loved ones going on before us as planned, and when we say will always be with us, we're right
thanks for listening I'll be back next week with another episode for more information on the Pollack twins and Corliss Chalk can Junior we found Doctor Stevenson's book. Children who remember previous lives extremely helpful to our research. You can find all episodes supernatural and all other Spotify originals from par cash for free on Spotify, and if you like, the show follow at par, cast on spoken Instagram and at Parkhurst Network on Twitter supernatural stars, Ashley flowers and is a Spotify original from part cast its executive produced by MAX Cutler sound design by carrying Murphy with production assistance by IRAN, Shapiro Carly Maggie this episode of supernatural was written by Stacy, leaning back with writing a by alley. Wicker fact checking by on you barely and research by Mickey Taylor,
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Transcript generated on 2021-03-04.