Nate Lanxon from Bloomberg joins the show to talk about the history of Internet Explorer and the future of Project Spartan.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Firstly, I set it up in less than ten minutes and on top of all that, nebula by Milon quadrille uses fifty per cent less water, so you can showered knowing you are being environmentally conscious, while enjoying your spot. Like experience Go to boeing dot com to learn more! That's m, o ye dot. Com to learn more the welcome to tech stuff, a production from I heart, radio, the and welcome to tech stuff. I'm your host Jonathan Strickland, I'm an executive producer with I heart radio and hell the attack aria. it's time for another classic episode. This is actually the second part to the classic episode we published last friday. It is called the store of internet explorer part too, as it originally published on may sixth, two thousand fifteen and has spent guest hosed, nate langsyne on the show name,
It's awesome if you're not familiar with his work, definitely google nate Langston he's got a ton of work to his name, is just a really interesting, intelligent and retaining person hope you enjoy. This call I think episode. I know people Still, I would prefer to use windows explorer to any of the other operating systems that have come out since then. There I legacy systems that depend upon windows xp. You cannot migrate to. Who operate system without re. Inventing. All these legacy systems that interact with it There used to be a joke about how people would stay on windows XP and now it's kind of a sad one. So, Six comes out, bundled with windows xp. That also means I e six has continued to be used, after you would expect people to have changed in a great some other version of internet explorer.
pc world. This is where we get the sad part called it least secure software on the planet. Because I had so many vulnerabilities and made the list of twenty five worst tech products of all time from pc world. It was number eight a number seven- was a different microsoft product, one that I did a episode of tech about microsoft, Bob Bob so named by bill, gates' wife, I believe he and the gates. We had a whole air. The episode, if you have It wasn't aware of textiles, I highly recommend you go and check that out. lauren, vogel bomb was by co host on that one, and we had a grand old time, dissecting bob and, and it was the first time ever in countering bob and boy. I mean that that I e six rank higher on the list. Then bob
Tells you how bad I e six was because Bob was atrocious. So this was another one of those problems it rife with vulnerabilities that allowed hackers to get that same kind of level of of access to a computer, whatever level the user was logged in at so if you were a giant business and you only allowed your employees to lie again under a lower access level than that was bad, but probably manageable, If you are one of those businesses that allow employees to log in at the admin level, it was catastrophic and because I you six was london with windows explorer, because windows explorer was so popular. It meant that it was eight or get rich environment now, need you you being a mac user. Are you one of the mac users who who very smugly trumpets the fact that max are largely free
from issues of viruses and malware I'm one of the people that says that they are well yes, I am in a way I am actually completely, but what I want. I don't say that much I get viruses right. The older they are more secure than they are in as much as everyone targets, windows and therefore far far fewer people are targeting max but on the other hand, max can also be conduits. Provide viruses rifle You are able to pass on a virus, and if you are immune to it, you can you can be a carrier but not be be affected by it. Exactly that, I don't run antivirus. I don't care about windows, users why get vaccinated right I make a boy, although this this is a great deal, but this is a great point to make in that again.
These had so much of the market share. I mean we're still at the point where max had not, really made a big debt. It would be it wouldn't be until the mid too late to them. But we really started seeing the mac take off on a true market share level. meant that, if you're a hacker and your designing malware and you're trying to hit as many people as possible, that's you. oh, then you go to where the people are. The people were at pcs on windows based machines, specifically windows, ex p, internet explorer six had all these vulnerabilities. It was open season for hackers which that's why it made this this list of the twenty five worst tech products. I mean if, if it's a gateway, if microsoft had not a patch of olive on rebuilding its a huge issue, though, marks of dead and start to issue patches very quickly. But it was still one of those things that became a black eye for the company,
like the promise of serious, that the united states, computer emergency readiness team, told people hey You don't have to use internet explorer, don't use something else. Then the only times you should use internet explorer is when you have no other option like it's. It's only compatible with internet explorer. I've had- I've worked at companies where the internet would only be accessible through internet explorer. Other browsers just could not render those pages, which could be a very frustrating experience for someone who doesn't prefer to use internet explorer? Unless I can't, I don't have any other I need have. You ever had that issue to where you ve had it. We worked someplace where the the a system was designed. You had use a specific type of browser to access it. I'm work at one now. So I probably
shouldn't, say very much, but it's a very secure internal corporate environments sure an end. I mean that that's one of the reasons why I mean I still have a version of internet explorer that runs on my machine because there there are certain internal technologies. We use that it really only works with internet explorer. Now, once once it's up on the web, any browser can see the stop, but for the internal purposes we use things that will only work with internet explorer and, of course, we are also very concerned what about security? So it spreads one of those things that you know if, if you had built it on internet explorer six, this would be a huge concern, obviously because of those vulnerabilities and fortunately I think most companies don't rely on that or they are relying on one that has been patched thoroughly so that those vulnerabilities are no one
an issue, but for someone who doesn't for grandma who doesn't necessarily know how the stuff works. It's a problem right, it's easy to explain to someone who grown up around the world of software and software patches that this is an issue at all. It's I it's hard enough just to explain that this is not the internet, it's a browser. Joe, so definitely was a black mark against microsoft and its funding I looked on depends upon what source resource that said: the market share of various browsers and three point one percent of users in china, according to the source,
still using internet explorer. Six three point: one percent seems like a small number, but that means hundreds of thousands of people are still using internet explorer. Six that's yeah, I incredible China is an interesting one and because the rampant piracy that has taken place, yeah over the last couple of decades. In particular, when it comes to computer software, and there are so many old computers out there- computers that physically can't run more. Since operating systems that for some machines that may be the limit of what they can even install. Because of how old the hardware is, Yes, I mean in an impulsive, india, so that's probably a factor on the other, The other thing is that there are a lot of banks, believe it or not, have this really old software installed.
the case in China generally. There are a lot of a lot of places and are you and that's the other thing is that when you spend a lot of money and energy and resources on building in infrastructure and its using a particular particularly suite of software, are particular operating system? It's you know. You've created the system that now we call legacy system at the time. Of course, it's not a legacy, it's just what you built, and you built it, because you needed something and this that you know the suite did the stuff you needed. The problem is that you know you don't necessarily have those resources to dedicate to reinventing that every time there's a new operating system that comes out especially you're talking about really big systems where it would require a massive effort across multiple locations in order for everyone to stay in communication with each other,
and ass. We run into these problems meal if there are no easy solutions. It's very easy for us to say: hey, upgrade your operating system or upgrade your browser. because I'm a user to user level. It's not as big a deal I mean it might require some financial investment. If you're talking about having to get a new machine, scalable running of a newer version of that software, but ultimate ultimately it's not as big a deal as is telling a an industry or just out of the takeover company within that industry, hey you need to do. This is a much larger effort on their part, so at flippant. As I'm being, I do realize that you know it's not so simple as oh. We need to. We need to install this new program. It's sometimes it's, not the the new browser, like you said nate could require a more advanced hardware or a
more advanced operating system, yeah alright, so that was two thousand one. Now we're going to skip ahead to two thousand and because there were no updates in that. I'm but another night, two thousand for a bit Competitor to internet explorer would launch mozilla foundations, firefox one point o goes live a firefox was the first, real challenges to the dominance of internet explorer to to really capture a lot of people's attention. Before there had been devotees of other browsers, but they were pretty small audience is firefox is one that actually threatened to take. Some real chunks out of microsoft, and part of that was because- There was still this ongoing issue with internet explorer six and the security vulnerabilities it had had. Such a had a pretty bad reputation. Meanwhile,
might say well why? Why didn't microsoft, com, with a new version. firefox came out. There wasn't really need. right I mean there were no if you dont, have a competitor, then you dont have a lot of incentive to improve your product the problem on the reasons why the big reasons you don't want any monopolies out there, because you would rather have competition that drives the various entities to continue to innovate and invest in their technology so that you ultimately get better stop out of it. If there are no competitors Then you gotta just hope that the entity, are motivated enough to continue that innovation and invest. Which is not always the case- and it wasn't in this one- so october, two thousand and six, we see microsoft launch internet explorer, seven, because fire it's starting to eat at microsoft eels. I to take up some of that market share. Microsoft suddenly realized hey, we might have a problem,
We might need to to start really looking at in. in this space again, because we're not- the only player in town anymore. So this was I year absence of dates, and then we finally get one in two thousand and six Six or seven was also the first time they change the name, because the previous editions of internet explorer roll call microsoft internet explorer. Whatever this time they were called windows, internet explorer, whatever so windows internet explorer seven are interesting because of the settlement with united states department of justice earlier about how they didn't really want to get The indication that windows and internet explorer so tightly integrated, but after the settlement of that case, I guess they were. Microsoft was looking at it saying, look if you, if you
use the windows environment. This is the browser you want. I guess that was their marketing push, I said and it became the bundle browser for it's. My piece of software windows, vista. We'll be back with more of this classic episode of tech stuff after this quick break and what happens when vanilla gets toasted and hand shaken with ice. You get the new iced toasted, vanilla, oat milk shaken espresso at starbucks, it's their toasted new, take on vanilla paired with shots of richest preso and creamy oat milk, mmmm starbucks new iced, toasted, vanilla, oat milk shaken espresso is their exciting new. Take on vanilla, it's handcrafted with rich layers of caramelized, vanilla, flavor, blonde espresso and creamy oat milk for under two hundred calories. You haven't had vanilla until you've tried it toasted
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From the producers of star trek discovery and star trek. Picard comes the man who fell to earth academy award nominees. She would tell it to you, for this is the next step. Nothing the academy award nominee naomie harris. They are coming for you the man who fell to earth now streaming only on showtime, think windows vista did more from mackintosh sales apple it was it wasn't. It wasn't great to begin with, it was basically all right by the end, but yeah it was when I was. It was one of those that the did require patches to make it to the point where people gave it that kind, damning praise right by the end. It was ok, But when it came out it was not ok,
There were a lot of issues ivy. I remember all the different permissions windows that would pop up whenever you wanted to do anything in windows. Vista and it was almost like microsoft- had overreacted to the problems it had experienced previously with products like internet explorer? Six Where is the well? We want to make sure that we are really concerned with security and safety. So now you're going to have to go through five permissions pages. Whenever you want to run anything on your machine every time you want to run it so instead was maligned, probably justifiably, when it first came out, but then like like we said it got better with patches, although it was too little too late. At that point, I you had all these different people and companies school systems, everything Saying you know what we're going to stick with windows xp because
Even though this operating system is the new one, it breaks everything use this older operating system and I can say like in my career, we went from it was xp to windows, seven, we did not we, the vista. I went windows xp mac, not particularly because of vista, to be honest, but but I think that was a turning point for a lot of people is either ignore vista. We to seven or ignore vista and moved to the mac yeah. I think you know, I think even know Looking at at some of the the operating systems out there things like linux, I mean, I don't think
linux has it's own, like devotees, who are all the developers who who love to work with that operating system and help make it better, and it's almost like a a crowd sourced o s, but they, you know, I think things like vista, definitely help fuel that kind of passion. because you look at what is the product of a car a corporation, saying: here's. What we think it will operate system should be verses. something like a mac, which apple has done a great job positioning themselves as We know that you think you know what you want, but were telling you what you want and you're gonna love it and it works, because it's designed so well and then you have. The linux approach was, as we know what we want, because real ones making it Yes, there is that as well, and linux is so infinitely flexible from the you know. If you wanna bet,
old your own operating system in translation of linux once that was designed in the style of his of anonymous series. cereal experiments lane, which is very with turkey, on a maze. You have won a check it out. I want I point something out that we actually didn't discuss and put in show notes february. It just occurred to me, as we've been talking, that there was a con, though as a as a it's parallel change in computer usage at this point in the insect or a lifestyle which was the introducing an introduction and success of the net book that just the opposite of what microsoft would have wanted with vista, which required more, high powered high stakes machine? It was much visually It was much more visually. Rich vista was that is there Secondly, another netbook came out and became this giant. Pre ipad pre tablet crazy hundred dollars,
little portable notebooks that needed to run really low power old stuff. So speed. They ran isaacs only run limits. Of course, I'm and I think that that that was such a pocket. the choice of machine for admittedly maybe a couple of years, but I think it may have made a difference in the whole exploiting and devils, the once two thousand and seven rolls around you had apple introduced the iphone and that really changed the game. because suddenly you had were at least here in the united states. We here in the eu, as this is where nation can kind of chuckle Because, in the u s, the smartphone was adopted very late on the consumer side, whereas in Europe you had some smartphones that had traction before the iphone came out here, the as the iphone might as well have been the first smartphone ever People had any other site type. A smartphone were executives who had blackberries here in the u s thou.
Very kind of you. It was very kind of you to to suggest that we were far if a gay man, I I think, really that that sort of wherein the realms of the sort of nokia, communicator sort of thing and yeah and they went they weren't particularly smart, but they they were more feature rich, definitely right and some of the? U s, phones, cousin, because nokia didn't do anything really in north america the time right, yeah here, you have a phone that could browse the web via text like it was just a text, based browser. Then you are ahead of the game. Then the iphone comes out and suddenly you have a new way of viewing the web, which would get improved Ruby with future generations of the iphone and then with competitors like the android own and ultimately, with windows, mobile windows, phone and then just windows for mobile devices, but that really change the game big time to the point where now, if you look at market share of, what's being
used to browse the web. The mobile devices are killing it. And so you see things like ios- is a huge player and market share for web browser If you're. If you include mobile devices, if you look at just desktops, then internet explorer is still a large, a large player, especially once you fact when all the different versions of internet, its or their stolen use. But two thousand seven ends up being a big year, because we start seeing mobile become a true competitor or at least a a potential competitor in the web browsing space march, two thousand and nine, be microsoft, launched internet explorer, eight, which was the first browser past. The acid to test did not pass the acid three tests, but a pass. The esa to test which that's a test designed to check a brow this ability to render a web page based upon the intended design of that page. This
back to what I was saying before, where you just painstakingly create a web page and you can't wait for someone to see it. I mean by by can't wait I mean if you, if you could go back, and visit the web pages of the the mid nineties, I guess to you that more Eighty percent would have a counter on that web page. We'll tell you what number you were to visit that webpage. Those were ubiquitous back in the day. Oh my god I was there. Hundred and thirty thousand person to visit the website. Yes, do remember installing one of just figure like. Why do I do this again? Like it's been months. I can still count the number of people who visit my website onto hands That was Those things were again: if you put this care into it, really wanted to make sure that
all the browsers. We're going to render it properly and it was very important for microsoft at the time because they were no longer like no One version of internet explorer was now the dominant one, because firefox had done so well, so If you're the dominant player, then sure you could essentially define how web pages should look. your browser's, the one the people should be designing for, because you're, the one that most people are using and anyone is using a different web browser is going to have a potentially at any rate, a list. Then I deal experience. But who cares because you're the one is the biggest player in town. We are no longer the biggest player in town or there are viable competitors out there. You have to start rethinking that strategy. I guess I've got a good thing here. And building a web browser that was going to be more true to the designs of the web, page administrators than what they had previously been
doing. I also benefited those of us who actually used firefox or some other browser at that time, so that was that was good, glad it's an interest period, because all this time, all this discussion, opera, chugging along in the background. Doing it's thing and justice will be. talking I just downloaded and installed opera on my mac, because I just wanted to see what it looks like these days is based on chromium and like like. Google chrome is, and you know opera- is always been this underdog. It's just never on very well. Market share wise, but he's always had this resolutely loyal, fanbase and desire, really innovative things on the mobile side and always has- and I remember in about two thousand In seven I wrote an article, the scene at saying: opera should stop making desktop browsers just focus on mobile future and I had one person who said that I should throw myself off the top of the scene at building for saying something. So
the heinous against the beloved or propose a bright eyes too. You know, Nearly ten years on I stand by that they should focus on mobile. and I hope that person revisits my article from two thousand and seven unread says: oh yes, you were right. Well, don't you feel is very forward thinking because, as it turns out, mobile browsing has become so important. Now that that's where everybody is looking, I mean not the desktop browsing has gone away or that there aren't other platforms mean heck. I I I browse the web very rarely, but sometimes I browse the web on my xbox. so that I can watch certain content that I couldn't otherwise or that I am want to have a podcast on in the background and that's the easiest way play it so, but the mobile certainly is-
is at least as important, if not more important than desktop browsing as these dates. So everyone really need to be looking at me. I think you were really just giving some valuable advice I mean I really trolling page. It was based on It was based on real opinion and fact, I've already that the time you know we we ve all engaged in some click bay at some point or another living here, we've got more to say in this classic episode of tech stuff. After these quick messages
what happens when vanilla gets toasted and hand shaken with ice. You get the new iced toasted, vanilla, oat milk shaken espresso at starbucks. It's their toasted new, take on vanilla paired with shots of rich espresso and creamy oat milk, mmmm starbucks, new iced, toasted, vanilla, oat milk shaken espresso is their exciting. New. Take on vanilla is handcrafted with rich layers of caramelized, vanilla, flavor, blonde espresso and creamy oat milk for under two hundred calories you haven't had vanilla until you've tried it toasted try the new iced toasted, vanilla, oat milk shaken espresso at starbucks order it ahead with the starbucks app today. This episode of dexter is brought to you by state farm, if you're, a small business owner, let's just say, you're busy, weekdays weekends, keeping books managing staff watching the bottom line to protect what you buy.
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Learn more at royal, caribbean dot com sunday night showtime lying mission is your. from the producers of star trek discovery and start trick. Picard comes the man who fell to earth academy award nominee. Each would tell it to you, for this is the next. step, nothing the academy award nominee naomie harris they are coming for you, the man who fell to earth now streaming only on showtime the internet explorer eight is currently the second most popular version of internet explorer. As far as market share goes, keep in mind we're up to eleven now and in fact internet explorer. Eleven is the current most popular version of I e on the market. I e eight is second, so that means nine and ten didn't do quite so well and
I'm not saying this is necessarily the case, but perhaps one of the reasons that it has done so well. For so long is that as the last version of internet explorer those capable of running on a windows ex p machine. So maybe that we have still a significant number of folks out there who are running the windows, operating system they never upgraded vista or seven or eight or ten. Now and there's their staying with windows ex be for one reason or another and they might be running internet explorer. Eight, that's a guess, the fair one year I mean in a mobile. Well, it's I am sure a lot of people listening have had the experience of downloading an app and downloading and update a week later right firing up the optimist. that your eye was is out of date in and you need to update and that's because apple or
or android. All something has been up as a result has released enough. In the time between you downloading the up and firing up the up, and you ve dated the up in time without firing it up or updating. I was and is already out of date like crazy, personally, I haven't had that issue, but that's because I use the nexus six, so I get those updates like immediately. Although iphone users out there like yeah, that's regular operating procedure for me I have an extra sixth as well to be noted at it. I didn't get us a sort of my android sort of test phone thing. Of course How can I use that your main phone has to be an iphone? I imagine yeah how'd you like the next six. I know this is a tension I have to ask I love it. I really like it. I am I I use the iphone six plus as my main phone to the nexus. Six just feels like an evolution of that feel wise and the screens
the screens nice, the battery life for me has been pretty good and didn t at an at like it, but I don't not much. To be honest, it was is just like a like a sort of a dummy review type thing that has been hanging around right, I just They were a little bit larger. So that way, if I hold it over my head on a sunny day, I shaved my entire body. It is big phone, it is like that. I don't use it that much. It's mostly there for me to test android, and if I need it a review all right about new apps. It's just their guys find it here. I understand. well getting back to internet explorer. This is where we're starting to talk about some of the the the boring ones for me. So I guess that's why I'm so eager to go off on tangents but march, fourteenth two thousand and eleven explore nine debuts.
and the tagline the beauty of the web. So, finally, we could experience that as as good that by two thousand and eleven we could finally see the beauty of the web and, after all, that text and the read access for images that wouldn't load- and this one wasn't tied to the premiere of any new operating system which might be one of the reasons why it's not as popular as I e eight or I e eleven, because it was not. It wasn't, bundled with an operating system, so it could run on windows, vista service pack, two or later versions of the windows operating system. There was no support for windows. Xp, like we said, eight was the last internet explorer to run on that platform. You do things like websites to the application bar which would allow you to navigate straight to the Right away, so if there are sites that you always go to Egypt in there
There's always there's three that I always open up. First thing in the day, so I looked at my browser then, since the pen, those first three just to be held a click on whichever one or even pen them together. You could do that as well. We could open up multiple tabs. and just associate the ones that you always go to first thing. That way, you don't have to spend those precious that calories typing in The first few letters of whatever you are ill. You go to each time but very innovative approach at the time and It also had a download manager that will allow users to pause downloads and alert users to potentially malicious files. Very important as far as security is concerned, something that has pretty much standardized throughout all browsers now, but was brand new back in two thousand and eleven at least for internet explorer anyway, and it still includes separate
five for audio and video tags. So we started to see that that migration, which is still happening from forty five, and so it was important. It just didn't make a huge In fact I ever used, I e nine. I don't think I ever got to that I hear I don't know. I think I, You think I will have done because I was I was all mock at that point, my machine it why it at the time, Michael o, my my machines at wide world markets as well He did always have either a parallels. installation of windows, so I could do. My browser task, as I always did, the browser reviews the scene it. in the uk and then why it is well after that. So I always thought of cats. I call them instead so I must have used it at some point, but certainly, I said,
It was the last one that I could honestly say really remember using positive, the eight that oh, no, no lasting impression here and I imagine that people with macs when I run boot camp, so I can run I e nine. That would really shock me. I would not be out to be away please tell me what what's the why you might want to do that What a while, with some of the best windows machines, you could buy right. That's true, like via my Look out for windows on. It is a better experience for most windows, users who didn't want to use a mock orally didn't want to use our time right. Did you do? Do you find it amusing when he users try to go the other way and create hacking touches seems like a bit of a waste of time, but I suspect that there are people that are probably doing it more for the joy of making it work than the fact that it's productive for them to do so. Once they've done, it rang out what I mean
the ios design. I am a windows user. I mean my gaming machine. Is a windows pc? It's a big fat gaming rig with a twenty one, nine ultrawide curved monitor. for windows, but I bet it literally load steam and most realistically really loads schools online as soon as I turn it on it, nothing else sailor with that huge screen, it's gotta be papers, please you're, just like papers, pleasure, no it's my immersive experience, that's good now. I know I know what I could run into you ever ever I haven't that world. Oh please do you are welcome. You would make a fantastic nord. I'm still playing actually the wings cairum again, I'm? U, I keep playing it. I don't know why I play. I finally actually finished the game for a long time. I was not finished
The game was just doing other cyclists, so maybe I neither maybe I'll need say goodbye to sky remain and jump on. We you think this conversation of line, because they are definitely want to persuade you to get into ellis goals on the line, but was will save eldest scrolls free future texts. Regulating itself has a rich history, as a franchise worry Is it yeah? Actually I remember getting to play the the early build of that at a c e or e three several years ago, but Ok, I will say that products would not with its power. on, through the end of internet explorer April, twelfth two thousand eleven. That's when magazine announces internet explorer. Ten. It was less then, a month from releasing export nine, so they release nine and less than a month later, there's a hate it an export ten is coming. which seems like a weird choice, especially when internet explorer. Nine. Wasn't being bundled with an operating system so I don't know why they expected people to migrate to nine.
announced hey something even better is coming really soon that that to me is a very odd decision. I honestly don't understand the motivation behind that unless they gave their probably like accounting purposes more than anything else showed him return on investment. I mean really don't like that since then, and explore, wasn't like a product that you would go out and purchase. Maybe they just didn, air car hard to say are, they showed a demo of an early build of. I e ten at the mixed eleven cons conference in LAS vegas, dear my ex conference in vegas. I've never been to that one. That's why the few that I have not at all it was September two thousand and eleven. They showed the developer preview of windows, eight that ended up becoming available to the general public. So if you wanted to get
hands on an early builder windows eight and then be one of the many people who complained about the metro lay out. You could have done that then I was what those people What do we actually just had a machine here at helstone works? That was no windows, eight machine and it was Does it machine that did not have Anyone using after what no one no one was using it well. First of all, there wasn't a whole lot software we could use with it and, secondly, we didn't have a touch sensitive screen, so you were using this her face. That was clearly designed after the you are. You would see in a tablet but transmitted transferred rather to a desktop experience. But if you didn't have a touch, green monitor and you were navigating it through your basic keyboard and mouse. It was. a very satisfying experience, at least not for me I can easily see why it would be very attractive if you are using it
screen device, although I'm not big on touch screen monitors, because I don't like having big old greasy fingerprints all over my monitor all the time, and I prefer my desktop to be still keyboard and mouse until something comes along. What about you? Do you use touch, no monitors same here. I don't see I don't see, I don't see a benefit to that, at least not in the current. and where iterations that right there yeah, I don't. I don't like the idea of having to reach across and touch the screen anyway, I'm also lazy, so anything that smacks of effort. I would like to edge away from ah It was absolutely necessary. I e ten would end up being bundled with windows, eight and windows windows, server, two thousand and twelve in the fall of two thousand and twelve. And it had two modes at the metro mode. So if you launched it in the metro, they no longer metro, but at the time what we to it as
when it was in the metro, which was that tiled of windows eight had a limit red features and it also ended up eliminating privilege, harry user interface was eliminated from casual glance, he would have the swipe from the bottom of the top in order to pull things up, but otherwise it was meant to give the website the entirety of screens landscape. I can appreciate that on one level I like the idea of slimming down your your frames so that you're giving the website as much attention as much of the focus of the users possible.
But at the same time I want to be able to easily navigate to other sites. If I need to so I'm not crazy about completely hiding in a way. I think that might have been a bit much if you launched it in the desktop version of internet explorer. It was a little more like the earlier versions, so it had more of the the capabilities built in it, and I think I think windows, eight was really microsoft's approach to trying to make the offerings as accessible to as broad range of people as possible at a notch. Clearly they were entirely successful. They, the rapid development of windows, ten kind of points to that, and also just that of greater windows. Eight point, one which ended up kind of reversing microsoft decision. their original points, but microsoft tends to do this in a terrific talks between between big success
and at least the perception of complete disaster, which is windows windows, seven great success, windows, eight better disappointment. So I sort of feel that they are to a great success and the next and the next one. I think so. I guess I'll go out on a high point as its one yards also interesting as this to me parallels. A similar thing happened with with microsoft, with ie the announcement. xbox one. I remember you and I had a conversation about which console we thought one that year when, when the that's one we're both announced. Yes, I remember the easing of very messy hot dog with you are. We had our conversation
We we talked about how microsoft made all these the time they sounded bold and sometimes slightly dangerous. whereas there there, the the People would view the xbox one they made these these announcements that, ultimately, I think, would have benefited them had they stop with them, but they listened to the initial reaction. The gamers had and they reversed some of their initial pray that their initial pronouncements, which ended up negatively, impacting certain features down the road, I think it's very similar to the way windows, eight and internet explorer ten the same for situations, they went through the same kind of cycles. They went through this like work, were really trying to push innovation. The problem was there were,
in the innovation and the direction that the public just didn't get behind, and you know I think this is really is- lizzie problem born out of the business model and they are not to blame me result at all. This is just the way business is, but they knew. what is expensive the decision to move operating systems work great. So they have to change something. Significantly, which is why it seems to go from great to bad to great to bad to potentially next great again, because, basically, What they then change is they go back to what people want it in the first place, you know that it's the problem with riveting broke down fix it, but the auditing broke, but you need to make more money cause. That's what your business relies on, then, maybe don't fix it. Just try
do something to it and then writes that right, right yeah, I mean that. That's a that's a great point, and I I I think it has to be endlessly frustrating to microsoft executives to really push for big big changes. Big. Wrists, innovation and seeing it all flat and then watch apple where it seems, like apple, is able to make that kind of declaration and and What do really well with it now. That being said, there are clearly examples in apple's past, where updates to certain operating systems or software packages have been met. With lots of criticism there, certain o s, updates that people absolutely despised in the in the process of the evolution,
mac ios. There is also I mean anyone here and how stuff works, who works in video could go on and on about changes to certain video editor, sweets. I love that changes. Brilliant idea, premier interviewed final cut when they change that everyone here, the other way, a glass. They were probably doing it further for a living, whereas I do it's semi professionally. So for me it actually, that's a lot of stuff particular things like multi com. I wasn't doing anything professionally professionally with it, like wasn't my soul job. But I but but on the other hand, the the big difference is that microsoft? Now does these big giant huge overhauls and pushes it as the next big thing and like the later innovation and leap in personal and professional computing apple makes a big deal about it's always, but there they, the incremental them all like service packs. Now- and they are free and apple, will trumpet in this new innovative feature.
new innovative feature, and yet they are convenient. But you know what you pay for it really I mean people did, but it never really felt like a big deal to more felt like just they were making boxes, in the one shells and shipping them around the world. They could probably charge something for them. That once is all software and download based it's just like mere heavier, so they like completely different. This is they're not Can an egg is not chicken eggs without choking cheese? Now, they're, just when comparing apples to apples by comparing always tend to windows updates. Wise, though, was that chocolate she's here, that's but there's no one wanted by eleven at night. I've been up for you now is at this point. I'm fine, I'm just that's. If there's a common saying or that's just a gap. Ok,
it's really common yeah they're like chalk and cheese that don't go together I'll I'll. Take your word for it. I I have never heard that phrase, but I'm I'm a cause. I've been very sheltered. My entire life, so impossible just hasn't made it's way to the, south, yet stay tuned for the exciting conclusion of this text of classic episode right after we take this break, what happens when vanilla gets toasted and hand shaken with ice? You get the new iced toasted, vanilla, oatmeal shaken espresso at starbucks. It's their toasted new, take on vanilla paired with shots of rich espresso in creamy, o milk starbucks new iced toasted, vanilla, o milk shaken espresso, is they are exciting new, take on vanilla, its handcrafted with rich layers of caramelize, vanilla, flavour, blonde espresso and creamy oat milk for under two hundred calories you haven't had vanilla until you ve tried it toasted
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number reading so many reviews said hey if you switch the chrome, because you wanted it to load. Web pages faster, you don't have that reason anymore, because internet or eleven was doing it as fast or faster than chrome could So it suddenly became clear that, Michael thought had really pushed to do not just have new features but to improve them orbits, so that it wasn't going to be viewed as a yeah. It's there thing that everyone has, because its bundled with your operating system. It was actually valuable browser that could stand. on its own against all these other competitors sown. It was one of those things where you start hearing some real positive thing, reviews about internet explorer and yet it's also the last internet explorer. Microsoft announced
dear that it is no longer going to be developing internet explorer. I thought I think that it's a necessary is change, because I think that the name, I e is a lot worse than the product itself. Internet explorer is a perfectly good, great, modern fast. now like it is it's fine, it's a decent browser and if I I feel the peoples, with you know who say: oh, I use internet explorer most of us. the gold cargo really really. But you know what if you're using the latest, I e on windows, eight point one: it's not a bad browser, you might write, I ate it, and I mean this objectively speaking, not subjectively like objects. These on a pauper but the word I e just it just brings with it. This history yet people just associate with either bad technique,
or horrible compatibility issues like you had with where you had to build. Basically, a version of your website just for one browser, a lot of problems and obviously these security issues with icicle its get rid of the name. It's it's. A real problem is why people dont really name that children after murderers, because while it there's a lot of agony there, there's baggage that here there actually yeah and, and so the the next one who knows by the time the spot gas goes like. Maybe they'll have officially announced the name, but its code name, project spartan, which is built on different code. It's code, that if you trace it back, you know it has it's that are common to internet explorer. But again it's a different evolutionary up, and It's going to be that the new approach for browsers other there will be continued support.
For internet explorer for a while, but we're going to see that gradually taper off until we are left with the whatever projects partners named at the time. I am curious where they came up with a name because have the personal assistant, cortana cortana skip here. Yeah tell me for one rail is cool export, causing microsoft's ever done. That's true name it after the most popular thing that the most popular thing is named after the army. There they weren't gonna call master chief, so master chief, the main character in yellow is a spartan soldierly. The type of armour he wears is is designated as spartan. So it's So this is another halo reference. I could be there, sport and jaded is totally is a halo reference like spots in either because it's a very bland, open interface and possibly, but it's not is its eight halo,
still think they should call it windows grunt Well, I guess I guess they could called elite, and we know that with you then I would have possibly had a nicer connotation than Rockwood, although, honestly, depending upon what version of windows you're running grunting, might be your natural reaction to booting up your computer and cause. I remember running older versions of windows on older machines and thinking. Alright, I've turn my computer on in about half an hour I'll, be able to do something. At any rate, that's that's it. That is the the all blown history of internet explorer from the early days before there were even web browsers to the current situation. Explorer is, is surfing into the sunset. I guess we're talking about the web. And now we're going to get this this new type of browser in the future. It's
interesting story of antitrust lawsuits. focus on the web. getting a little you're, not lazy, but complacent, perhaps that within this place I mean it's, it's a. U can also look at Sadly, development of the other company microsoft as well, just what the company was going through During that time, we could do a parallel timeline and really see how there is a lot going on. already wise and ended the popularity of windows internet explorer. Six on why extent, Internet explorer six itself was both the best. The worst thing that happened to I e as a franchise of browsers yeah. You know if its popular I would see it accounted for over ninety percent of all browser installations at one point around two thousand and three, I think, and yet
That was the one that effectively caused the downfall, now in terms of actual secure the issues. Public perception in the feed need, eat for something to challenge the dominant monopolistic. Looking I e you know that have caused his own ultimate downfall and the complacency just made. That was that, without without I e six, you dont how necessarily be the incentive for a group like the mozilla found they shouldn t really push for an alternative like firefox and then firefox ends up becoming, not just first it would take years. It's it's definitely the underdog, but then very quickly in the grand scheme of things, became a true content ah yeah you, without without the problem of eighty six, there wouldn't have been added there would have been a drive or the alternatives
Ultimately, when you look at the way things have shaken up now again like we, we barely touched the mobile world, but it's so what helped drive the development of things like chromium and then, therefore, you could also say it helped android It is definitely affected by internet explorer like we. We would not have. the same experiences that we have available to us now were it not for I e whether it whether it's from microsoft or from someone else that was trying to compete against them. So successful and what a great product fit. You know for the last two decades, in say this is a monkey user, but, as someone has a deep amounts of respect for microsoft and I'm worried as and what it has done and internet, sport has to go down as one of the most popular. If not the most,
and the whole piece of software ever made. You know I don't know, there's a controversial statement but you'd, but I think even there What I'm getting at that at its it has it done so much for sure what the modern web is, even if it was by being popular or too bad. At one point, it has been a driver. change for the modern internet. I think I feel safe, saying that if internet explorer had not been, if it hadn't been for internet explorer, for one thing more people would ever have been introduced the world wide web because since it we're bundled with the operating system, it took that bear we are entry and and threw it out the door right and made it It became something that your computer could do as soon as you got it plugged up and connected to the internet, there are still a bit of a barrier cause you still. I d get connected, but once again past that it was already ready to go,
and so there was that and help remove that barrier to entry and because of that, because it had this enabling turn the drove more people to the web and allow allowed for the creation of things like websites like how stuff works, dot com, which means that I ultimately was able to land my dream job, so I dont know Oh, that things would have an older the same way had microsoft, not gotten into that some sure it impossible to say, but I mean I'm pretty sure that there's no way the wouldn't still be an incredibly influential part of our life
it's that whether it would be to the same extent that it is now without internet explorer. I don't know- and I mean something that powerful and useful and and and ultimately profitable could not remain obscure forever, but it certainly could have taken longer without internet explorer. For it to get the traction that had got so we're here for the next twenty five years of the west, yeah. Who knows who knows what you know? Maybe maybe will, using a microsoft machine and at that time and mac will be a distant memory and my my chrome up, my chrome browser will be seen as as antiquated and cute. yes, I doubt it, but we'll see I'll, be just I'll, be passing through a midlife crisis and planning a sixtieth birthday, yeah I'll, be I'll, be
Roma mid life crisis and well into my decline made lange said. Thank you so much for joining me for these episodes. It has been a pleasure for having you on the show. I greatly appreciate you taking the time and as people have heard, maybe you- maybe you didn't notice, but name has stayed up past his bed time to me on my show, so I appreciate that now much if I, if I can stay up for two epic podcast episodes time to talk about the history of. Software mean that is that, isn't it stick in my book and its I'm just about it we launch an entire publication in in europe, and I am well past my bedtime definitely and said, but but it's been a lot of fun and kept me kept me awake despite what I probably should have been well need I'm going to take that as a positive. At night?
If I can have you on the show again in the future, I would love to have you back on and and chatting about EL sub, some other great tech topics. Nate is incredibly well versed in tons of technology. He very graciously agreed to be on this episode next time. I promise I will give him the full list of chart choices and just open up the option, so he can pick whatever he wants to cuz, it was. I was playing unfairly this time and that wraps up the story of internet explorer, at least as far as it went there. obviously we could talk a lot more about internet explorer today and the emergence of edge as well and hopefully, will do that at some. point, maybe I'll even get Nate back on the show.
If you have suggestions for topics I should cover in future episodes text up, please reach out to me. You can do so on twitter. The handle for the show is text of aged as w, and I thought you again releasing textiles is an eye heart radio production for more pod tasks. From my heart radio visit the eye, hard radio, an apple pie, casts wherever you listen to your favorite jobs Never forget, the best way to relax in the middle of rush hour traffic. Have your mickey d's breakfast sandwich right, shotgun,
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this one's on the radio out app apple guests, wherever you get your podcasts hi, I'm Brendan francis nuno, I'm a journalist, wanderer wander a bit of a bon vivant, but mostly a human just trying to figure out what it's all about and not lost. Is my new podcast about all those things. It's a travel show. for each week, I go with a friend to a new place and to really understand it. Try to get invited to a locals house for dinner were kind of trying to get invited to a dinner party. It doesn't always work out out I have to go back. You listen to not lost on. I heard ready, lap apple pie cas or where we get your punkahs.
Transcript generated on 2022-05-31.