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the welcome to tech stuff, a production from I heart, radio, the healer and Duncan to tech stuff. I'm your host Jonathan Strickland, I'm an executive producer with I heart radio and how the tech area so it's time for a text of tidbits break it to be pretty long for tidbits, but let's just go with that and I got a message from weight: cold MIKE on Twitter, asking for an episode about jail breaking, which is a term I have not heard in quite some time, but back in two thousand seven, it really started to gain traction and of course we are not talking about breaking Someone out of a literal jail now we're talking about using vulnerabilities, too bright, down the walls of an otherwise walled garden. So, first, let's set the stage. Let's say:

that you are in charge of a tech company that produces a smartphone. And part of your revenue comes from phone sales right. You produce, phones, they go to retailers, the retailers, seldom the customers. That's your revenue stream, hello You've also figured out a way to increase your revenue by keeping a tight control on what can and cannot be loaded onto your smartphone so dear, acting as a kind of gate keeper, you might also be acting as a payment processing service. So you are in charge of the terminate what users can download to your smartphone. Add anything that uses in out purchases has to go through your payment processing system. So you can take a cut of all those transactions and yes, I am describing apple here, but lot of companies do similar things. So,

this is all about creating an ecosystem and then controlling as much of that ecosystem as you possibly can. This does not always work. Of course. For one thing, people have to want to be part of that ecosystem in the first place. Right, if no one likes your product or thinks it's interesting, no one's gonna buy into it and it doesn't matter if you control everything, because no one's entering into your ecosystem in the first place. But we have seen this time and again from tech companies, particularly those that sell hardware, because If all you do is sell hardware. Well, then, you only make money if folks are buying your stuff and if your stuff lasts, you know at least a couple of years. It might mean that you have some pretty rough cycles like sales cycles like if everyone is convinced to buy your product right out of the gate. Yeah, that's going to be great for you in the

short term, but then, a year later, maybe no one's buying a new stuff, because you know the old thing still works great, so This can really kind of lock you into a a a tough revenue cycle. Where you have big ups and downs, that's not great for shareholders if you have to be a publicly traded company. So if you pair your hardware with some kind of service you can contain,

You d charge customers over and over over general, however, along they remain a customer, and we see this with printers and tony cartridges, with famous examples being printers that can detect whether or not the cartridge Eve inserted is an official one from that company or a third party knock off, and if it's a third party knockoff, they might just not allow that to happen. Like it'll, lock, the printer down, we ve seen this with coffee makers curing famously tried to fight off attempts from other companies to create pods that were compatible with curing coffee machines curing just wanted you to go through the curing system, and we see it in the right to repair movement of with companies. Like John Dear trying to force farmers to elect their expensive farming equipment to a licence

John Dear Repair shop, rather than be able to do any maintenance themselves or with a mechanic that they like to work with. All of these concepts are related to this idea of locking customers into a model where they keep on paying to be part of this ecosystem. Let's go back to two thousand and seven: that's the year that Apple produce the Iphone, and you may oh, my drug use of forgotten what that was like things. Changes is scoring Noah days and people quick to forget just gimme a shout out if you actually get that reference and Textile Hs W on Twitter is the way to do that. But when Apple first launched the Iphone it was before there was an app store. In fact, the Iphone APP store launched a just a hair longer than a year after the original Iphone debuted. So the original Iphone owners went more,

in a year if they bought it on day one they went more than a year without any kind of app store, no way to add stuff to your phone, and it's not that the phone couldn't support apps. It totally could and in fact it came standard with several apple provided apps pre installed, but apple was building out the back end of that ecosystem. The process by which app developers would submit applications for apple to consider to include into the app store and sometimes apple, did sometimes it didn't in those early days give her, it was a pretty opaque process. There were times were, developers would get a rejection and not really understand why they were rejected, especially if a very similar app would then get accepted into the app store. So they were confusing days back then again that was a year after the phone. It actually lie.

Just as the apple wanted and actually still wants to control, what sort of stuff could appear on the Iphone which, when you really break it down, is just a small portable computer that happens to be combined with a phone. And computers are designed to run software, but Steve Jobs, the co founder of Apple, had long maintained a desire to restrict what sort of stuff could run on his company's hardware, and there are a lot of different reasons for this. One of those reasons is just a desire for quality control. If you take care to make sure that approved: apps are allowed on your device. You can sidestep a lot of the problems that can come about when junk software hits a platform if we think,

Back to the early nineteen eighties, we can remember the issues with video game consoles and how a flood of really crappy games contributed to an overall decline in popularity of consoles like the Atari, two thousand six hundred and ultimately, the video game industry as a whole in the United States at least crashed in nineteen. Eighty three: now I'm not saying that crappy games caused the crash, but they were a contributing factor to it. So that's one thing you don't want to have your platform flooded with junk. But another reason is security, computers run on code and, if you are clever, you might figure out code that can exploit a computer in some way

Now, when you tell you about a computer, that's also connected to a phone or a wifi network exploits can go beyond affecting just a single device and we ve seen exactly what can happen with big stories like the israeli company in a so group and the Pegasus product that that company produces Pegasus. leverage of lawn apples, I message that would allow some one to gain remote access to another person's phone all would take is for the attacker to send a message to their target through. I message, so you just had to have the targets phone number and you just sent the DE attack through. I message and the target wouldn't even have to click on a link or anything. So this was a zero click attack and it would turn the targets phone effect,

led to a surveillance device like the the attacker could activate the camera. The microphone or just you scroll through all the stuff that that person has been doing on that phone, and this is the kind of stuff that apple would rather not happen for obvious reasons, and then there is the potential for revenue. If you ve got the final say on what can and cannot go on to you platform, and if your platform is really popular, then you can pretty much dictate terms to app developers. You have all the leverage the developers want their apps to get in front of as many people as possible If the people happen to really love your product, while that means the app developers are going to want to develop for you, even if you happen to put a whole bunch of hoops in front of them that they have to jump through in the process and Steve Jobs was a brilliant salesman when he first announced the Iphone back in early two thousand and seven six.

Months before the product would actually release. He had that audience eating out of his hand. He highlighted some pretty cool features that are standard in smartphones today, but they are really innovative back in early two thousand and seven and before two thousand and seven smartphones were mostly clunky and utilitarian, mostly the stuff that busy executives carried so that they could stay connected to their calendars and email or you know, use as a status symbol so that other executives would know how executive they were, that some commentary there.

but the Iphone was different. It was sexy, it seemed futuristic and cool and even as a brand new product, a lot of people wanted it in the United States. Initially, you could only get an Iphone if you got it on a t and t it was the only carrier that could carry the Iphone. Initially in the United States Apple and a t and T had an exclusive deal. That was the last couple of years here in the US, but even with that restriction, a lot of people wanted in, but some people wanted a little bit more I'll explain when we come back after this quick break and now are there, I'm just malaria confetti here, hi, I'm psyche- and I am a shady lady and welcome to boss level podcast, where we feature conversations with gas to have leveled up bringing in x p. to the table. I am like a unicorn here,

because there's not allowed oak like out of the closet, female gamers say: there's not. It was like a battlefield, cool club here, no sorry, honey. The very dark corner and our lot of light afloat brain. We pick the brains of professionals, creators and bosses and industries across the globe to help our listeners achieve their own boss level. We are not just creating a podcast, but a game of hide and engaged community. Doesn't Abbas level on heart, radio, up apple pie, past or ever you got your past to all the parent felt their you'd. Like

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we believe everyone deserves a real vacation, one where you can order food and drinks to wherever you are where doors unlock as you approach, so there's no need for a room keys and we're drinks in life. I are all included because, when you're a real vacation together were, if you don't have to think about everything, you can finally enjoy everything. Planet, medallion, class, crews, with princess plus call you travel advice or a one. Eight hundred princess terms and restrictions I protest pessimism represent the farmer can confront the fantasy website a W W W that CDC backup. So, as I was saying, there are, some Iphone is yes to thought. The platform was awesome, but they were not satisfied with the Iphone as it launched. They knew that as a computer, you should be able to load stuff onto it. Programmes apps, in other words, and the Iphone lacked certain features that most cell phones already had, including a game. There was game on the original Iphone at all, you

out and buy a candy bars cell phone or a flip phone, not a smartphone, just a cell phone and you would get snake on it at least or hang manner something, but the Iphone didn't even have that. But what, if you could load programmes the Iphone will obviously Apple did not want people to be able to do that. The company was creating the framework so that it would have this full control of that ecosystem. But in the meantime, hackers were prodding the iphones programming and finding ways around the operating systems walled garden, and the goal was to create a way in which The user could load unauthorized apps onto their Iphone on a technical level, what the hackers wanted to do was get admins. Fraid of level access to the file systems of the Iphone operating system, or I o s. That is what jail breaking is. It is dismantling or overcoming thirst,

Since placed on a piece of tech, since you can load whatever you want onto it and change it in whichever way you want and in the early days the Iphone. It also meant you could potentially use an Iphone with a different carrier than whatever apple's official partner was wasn't that region. This is more frequently referred to as unlocking so it's related to, but slightly different from jailbreaking times, a jail breaking process would allow you to unlock your phone, but they weren't necessarily always together and while the term jail breaking can apply to any walled garden. Egos. Some more often than not, you would encounter it in terms of apple and specifically, the Iphone and, to a lesser extent, extent the Ipad and the UN and the Ipod touch. I almost totally forgot. What did I pod Dutch was called because has been so long since I've.

Seen an ipod, and I think, a big part of the reason why we associate this mostly with apple. Is that Google, unlike apple when, when they launched their android phone the following year, Google said: give users the option to load apps outside of the official Google Appstore. Now that's called side loading, so you're heading off to the side, to load and app to a device you're not going through the official Yell Android store? And sometimes you need to do that just for the purposes of developing an app rights. I must say that you are a developer, your creating an app The app is not ready for full roll, so you're not going to submit it to the app store yet, but it's yeah the initial development phase and you want to run a beta test to make sure that the app is doing what it's supposed to do. So maybe you contact

relatively small number of folks to participate in the beta and they sideload the app you send them like a direct link, to where they can download the app, and they can do that. Then you test out the app you work out what the bugs are. If there are any you refine it and then once it's ready, then you can submit it to the official store that happens a but require that your testers have to go into their settings and allow it because by default you are not allowed to side load apps. But you can change that feature an android and then there's some developers just create apps that I they never submit to the app store, or maybe the apps got rejected for some reason, and in these cases loading is really the only way users can access those applications up. Google, message was hey all this is risky, but you're all adults. So we're not going to stop you from doing this

but we do want you to understand that it comes with potential consequences. You need to know that so Google was saying that side, loading goodly trouble such as you know, you could end up installing malware on your android device, and that does happen. But if you wanted the freedom it was yours to have, you just had to change a couple of settings on your phone apple by contrast, said the world how there is a scary place, There are bad people who will do bad things to your phone, and so we shall protect you because you do not know better trust in us. We know what you want were you do do not worry what lies outside the official Appstore for nothing out. There is worth your time or something like that. I might be paraphrasing anyway. A lot of the hacker crowd fell. The apples approach was very patronising

and very ivory tower ish, and you know hackers aren't super crazy about companies telling them what they can't do with their stuff off the hook. Pretty much goes directly against the hacker ethos. My wonder: how long did it take before someone founded? way around Apple's ios protections. That would allow you to install a new app on the Iphone. Answer is eleven days. Approximately about a week and a half after the first Iphone launched hackers created a way to bypass the walled garden, one group of hackers Did this in that amount of time were cheekily referring to themselves as the Iphone Deaf I am an initially. They showed that through their process, they could install custom ring tones and custom wallpapers on the Iphone which still pretty small stuff, but a step, something that you could not do if you just had an out of the box standard.

Now there's no real point in going into how they did this, because it gets extremely technical, like some of the jailbreaking, Us as he is for various I o s versions would be more than a hundred steps for you to complete in order to achieve the goal of jail breaking the phone, so it would be Pointless for me to go through all of those that would be meaningless for most of us, including me, I'm not. I don't mean to talk down to anyone. I would not understand what I was saying. I would just be reciting something it would be If I were saying something in a totally different language, and also Most of all that is irrelevant now, because, where we're talking about a process that we see in all forms across data security, which is you get, this sea saw effect so one moment the hackers have figured out how to exploit a system. So the seesaw goes in their direction, then

moment whatever company is behind the system ends up pushing out an update that addresses that vulnerability, see switches, then I could get the work trying to crack, that system, switches again and so on, and this back and forth just keeps on going pretty, it'll keep on going until whatever the company is it's making the thing stops, making the thing and, of course, some Ios updates would end up taking longer to crack than others. I believe that Ios fourteen, which is the most recent version, took the longest amount of time to crack. If we ignore stuff, like Apple TV, which took even longer, but I'm mostly focusing on iphones here and apple, tried to go a little bit scorched earth with their early response to to jailbreak

the company aimed to brick phones that had been altered. First, it's another message that said: hey you don't wanna jailbreak your phone because it could affect its functionality and it could make it not function in the future and then the company, our how right went out to try and make that happen by detecting and then breaking a phone there had been altered and breaking means that the company. essentially cuts off all functionality to the device, and they render it no more useful than a brick, and actually you could argue, it's less useful than a brick, because our know if you ve tried to build a fort with iphones, but they are not stable. Hackers would release tools that would allow users to jailbreak their phones and then continue to update to newer

versions of the Ios without having their phones get bricked in the process for some of those early ones. But again this was constantly a see, saw apple would see how the hackers would respond and change their approach, and then the hackers would do the same now. The point that the hackers were aiming for was always the same. The goal was always the same, which was to get that administrative access over the file system. Now, the method to do that would change depending upon what protections were in place. So again, there's not much point in going through we have them in great detail, because they would only be relevant to a specific iteration of Ios. Now We urge jailbreak methodologies were pretty obtuse. If you are not technically savvy chances are, it would be or two in the weeds for you to me, and when I say you I also mean me, I am. I am certain after I've looked at just a few of the early methods where I was reading the list of

apps and everything I would have looked at those instructions and said yeah. No, this is too complicated. I'll just wait till Apple finally releases a snake game, but if you were more comfortable with code and their plenty, people who are then it was totally do. While some of the hackers would release instructions on how they managed to crack apples code

Others would just show proof that they had done it like. They would show the results, but they will explain how they did it. They would keep the method secret and that would in their minds, hopefully prevent apple from patching that vulnerability so quickly. Now some hackers would go so far as to release tools that would do the jail breaking for the user and that would significantly simplify things when the group ponies tool released the second version of their gel breaking tool. At this time there was targeting the Iphone three g, which I guess I should remind you was the second Iphone. They also introduced a tool called city had been developed by someone else. And I'll talk more about that after we come back from this quick break. There's a recipe for getting your car running just right and whatever, we're cooking up in the garage. You'll find what you need: Ebay motors dot com. They have

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We believe everyone deserves a real vacation, one where you can order food and drinks to wherever you are we're doors unlock as you approach, so there's no need for a room keys and we're drinks and life. I are all included because, when you are in a real vacation together, were you don't have to think about anything? You can finally enjoy everything: planet, medallion, class, crews, with princess plus call your travel advice or a one, eight hundred princess terms and restrictions. I protest pessimism, four percent. The farmer can confront the fatal website a W W W that CDC, backup. Ok, I left off with city city, spilled, see why d I and it served a few different purposes. For one thing, it was a facilitator for jail breaking, so it made it easier for users to jailbreak devices the for another. It was a kind of forbidden app store it. It was a way to find apps that were now

covered in Apple's official app store, and it would allow you to download them actually technically, Cydia came out before Apple had launched its appstore. So for a while. If you wanted to download apps to your Iphone, the only way to do it was through city or to hunt around different hacker forms and find them yourself, but Cynthia made that process much easier. So, yes, city, a pre, dated the Iphone Appstore by a short while not like, but like by a significant amount, the bag a month or so, and then Apple opened up its appstore and had its critical official approach where developers had to submit through

apples process in order to get approved and have their app carried in the store. Now city of was the brainchild of a hacker named J Freeman who use the handle psoric essay. You are. I k he introduced city of around two thousand eight but, like I said before, the app store launched and another hacker named George Hots, a g oh hots or GEO hot was unlocking jailbreak phones to. He had first become known for not just software hacks, but actually opening up the original Iphone and changing the circuitry sightly. He did that using an eye glasses, screwdriver, a guitar pick a soldering iron, which meant that he could switch over the Iphone so that he

not have to use. Eighty in tee, he- u he switched it, so you can use any some cart and he was using a t mobile some card. So you could use the irrational Iphone on the team Obol Network, which was kind of a neat hack, and it was something that a lot of people also in it up being interested in and learning how to do, another important tool in the early days of jail breaking was jailbreak me to point out, though the second version, obviously second, full version of this tool and a day butte a few years after the Iphone had come out, but this was a web based tool and that really simplified thinks so too use it. All you have to do is take your Iphone use safari. You envisage a specific web site. It hosted the jailbreak me tool. There be a little button on your screen. The click on that our actually you'd take technically swipe to unlock, and the site will handle the rest it would initiate.

Process that would jailbreak your phone within a few minutes and you would have administrator level access to your file system. An apple took all jail. Breaking attempts seriously, but jailbreak me to buy now was particularly vital for apples

echo, because for the first time, users who had no real tech, savvy and them could take advantage of a jail breaking tool, which meant apple, could technically lose its tight grip on its carefully designed ecosystem. Now any one could jailbreak their phone if they wanted to see the company pushed out of security of date pretty quickly the made the jailbreak be. Two point o attack ineffective, but then we just go back to that. Seesaw approach. Apple would also try to use the law as a way to discourage jail. Breaking the company argued that jail breaking violated copyright law, but the court's ruled the jail breaking, wasn't illegal and am I violate the end user licence agreement or you love, but you love aren't quite the same thing as legal documents, despite how companies often treat them as such, so

jailbreaking is not illegal necessarily, I guess it depends on where you are in the United States is not illegal, but jailbreaking has sort of had a decline now. This is mostly because apple really pushes out updates pretty quickly these days, so the exploits don't remain viable for very long. So if you publish that you've found a way to jailbreak a phone, then the timer is on right, because apple researchers are going to be struggling to find a way to patch those vulnerabilities, but they are still people out there who are working on effectively jail, breaking iphones and some of them are white, had hackers. So these are people who are looking for vulnerabilities so that they could tell Apple an apple, commend patch those holes and keep the system protected. Some of them are either working for apple, directly or contracted with apple. Some people are just

claiming bug bounties, this is when a company offers up a reward. If someone finds a vulnerability in their products, so you might come forward and say hey. I found this vulnerability. Here's what I did! Here's the vulnerability and then in return the company says. Thank you here is a bucket full of cash, because you just saved us untold of money by pointing out the smaller ability. And then you have some black had hackers out there who might be true. jailbreak iphones on the of an organization or a company or a government. That would really like to be able to explain the apple user base of the inner. So group out of Israel comes to mind here that a company that was looking to exploit a vulnerability within the Iphone ecosystem that it could then sell as a product to customers. Those customers typically were. for a Terry and governments, so not great, but

One of the big reasons to jailbreak might end up not being important. It might be moot before much longer because we recently seen court systems around the world push back Companies like apple and arguing that the walled garden approach is inherently anti competitive and that come These should allow customers to use alternatives to the company store, as it were now if those policies become law, Then companies like apple will be legally bound, at least in some regions, to allow users to access other app stores. Besides the official one now that's one of the big reasons. Apple has been putting up such a tough legal battle recently to resist this trend because alternatives would mean apple would be potentially left out of that lucrative revenue loop that it currently occupies developers could potentially use alternatives,

apple's payment service and apple would no longer get automatic cut out of in app purchases. Okay, quick recap, When we're talking about jail breaking were really getting into the ethos of what it is to be a classic hacker and the the classical hacker is not necessarily interested in profiting office. The storm or stealing information or stealing money or anything like that, thereby interested in learning how stuff works and and how they might be able to get stuff to do something. Other What it was designed to do. They of the learning process and the sense of achievement they get when they figure out the system or how to make it do something unexpected They are not necessarily malicious, though they often can be mischievous and hackers frequently feel that any computer platform should be open to run any software that is capable of running

So in other words, systems should not be walled off and locked away. So if a hacker buys a smartphone, the hacker probably wants to be able to load anything they want onto that phone with out. any restrictions and it really comes down to control. Does the company that made the product control what you can do on it or does the owner who purchased the device? Have that control and hackers typically think it should be the second camp apple? the opposite now. Finally, should you jailbreak your device? Well, I actually advise against it. Unless you really know what you're doing. while jailbroken devices can frequently do lots of stuff that the bog standard version cannot do like people who jailbreak their iphones and were able to access things that the?

wouldn't be able due for agents like copy and paste, which is such a basic thing, and you think what you mean. I phones at one point didn't have copy paste yeah once upon a time they didn't, and people complain that it and the only people who are using copy and paste on iphones were the hackers who had jail broken their devices. However, even though you might be able to do stuff like that. It comes with a lot of risks you might find your device has been bricked or I might have compromised by malware. If you downloaded an app and it turns out, it was hosting malicious code, so apple, not lying? When the company said the jail breaking isn't safe, it is not safe, though. If you know what you're doing you can navigate jail breaking without it running, you know it too much double that is possible, but your return on investment might be pretty low. These days, still the hackers out there who feel

the circuitry they own should be able to do whatever it technically is capable of doing that might be enough. Ok, that's it for this text of TED bets on jail breaking. Thank you so much for that. suggestion. I really appreciated that again was from way too cold MIKE on Twitter. Thanks again, if you have suggestions for topics, I should cover on future episodes of text please reach out to me. The handle is taxed, stuffed h on Twitter and I'll talk to you again, really. The tech stuff is an. I heart, radio production for more podcasts from Iheart Radio visit, the I heart, radio, app apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows

is he there? I'm just my lady confetti here I am psyche, and I am a shady lady and welcome to boss level podcast, where we feature conversations with gas tube leveled up bringing an XP boost to the table. We pick the brains of professionals, creators and bosses and industries across the globe to help our listeners achieve their own boss level. We are not just creating a podcast but a game. A fight engaged community, this into boss level. On I hurt radio at Apple pie, cast a reverie. You got your pockets. This episode is brought to you by square one of your business, could sell anywhere at any time and open to more customers all by making one simple choice swear everything. A business needs to open online, on social media in store and on whatever new sales channels might come next with powerful commerce tools that set up in minutes go to square,

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