« Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris

#130: Janice Marturano, How to Be a Better Boss

2018-04-11
Janice Marturano was a vice president at General Mills working on the Pillsbury merger deal in 2000 when she lost both her parents, and began a regular meditation practice as a way to soothe stress at work and in her personal life. Noticing the relief a daily practice brought her, and wanting to lead by example, she sought out a way to introduce mindfulness to her coworkers, and by the time she left General Mills to start the Institute for Mindful Leadership, she said more than 700 employees had completed mindfulness leadership training.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Four, may be seen as the ten percent have your vodka than her without temper centres on the show. This week the woman who first demonstrated to me You can be a hard charging high level corporate SAM, her eye and still incorporate mindfulness into your life in a meaningful way. She was a is a pioneer in bringing meditation into corporate Amerika, and you first met her if you read ten percent happier in in that Her name is Ganis Moderato more from Janis, much more, tat is coming up, but first some business and then some voice, males and then Janis so business, two things. First of all, thank you, everybody for your comments, questions, etc on twitter,
about the pivot, in the editorial direction of the show that I announced last week. Essentially announcement, was we're still gonna. You a ton of meditation, primarily meditation, but were also to talk to folks who may not meditated read anything to say about that in particular, but they know a lot about human performance and human potential and, as I like to say, getting your s. work together on every level possible and and that's where I think we're heading with issue, which is that it's you no kind of chicken soup for the sceptic or self help for wise asses, some people were very supportive of this idea, this kind of pivot, the gentle pivot. Some people, though, on Twitter were expressing,
some apprehension about it. I respect that- and I appreciate you saying this and looked at me to say a few things about this one is: it is an experiment. My team and I made said that that we don't want to do is pivot. After all, if you please continue to tell us what you think, second, I think it's just important to know that. Well This is still obviously going to be a pot casper I about Mary. Asian give yours. There is but meditation the practice doesn't exist in a vacuum. What you eat, how much you sleep? What your work life is like, which parenting and family life is like these all are inextricably intertwined with your meditation practice, because we know meditate just become good meditated. Come we meditate to be better at that life. So that's the Spirit in which we are in
attempting this pivot, but please continue to tweet me and tell me that you think this is dumb or smart or whatever. Second piece of business is that I do have a public event coming up to which you are all cordially I did it with a guy named SAM Harris were not related, but he is kind of a brother from another mother. I just I look up to a melodic, controversial guy, but incredibly smart and very serious for a long time about met it. It is also the host of a very popular Podcast called waking up so SAM Harrison. I are doing an event together in LOS Angeles on work, today, may second eight o clock at the stir ball. That's S K. I r B, a l, l, Screwball cultural centre. You can get tickets on stir ball, dot org
I was his voice mouth arrogant, number one. I damn Slater, calling you work preceded this help me a lot. My question is it regarding trying to say ten percent happier while you shop in castle with everybody blocking the lanes in blocking the other rains, fear Russia, Kafka. Nor I mean if you could tell us all how to remain calm meditate through the lovely experience of shopping casket Could you could be fun thanks? So I hear you, I mean every every life, maybe there's some exceptions to this, but I am unaware of them. Every life has experiences that are really frustrating and that we dread, but we have to do anyway. There are parts of the traveling experience travelling on planes going two airports that I detest, so the first thing I'd say is you're not alone. The second thing I d
is it doesn't have to not suck, I don't think were expecting to snap fingers and make everything that's annoying about life not be annoying, but I think you can use. These as opportunities to practice in so much that training. So what are we? Training in meditation were training to be awake instead of asleep and. the awake in a way that allows us to, see what's happening in our head as we go through, whatever were going through a clearly enough that whatever random emotion, has just ambushed us. A random thought has just popped through our mind. It doesn't own We don't necessarily act on whatever urges are impulses. We may have Do we call they noting practice so it we probably talked about the toward the package, and I know we talk about it. A lot on the ten percent happier abbot, noting practice is not a complicated issue
Whatever you're doing in your head, you make a soft mental note of it and I'm an so you're, I'm not talking about getting super complicated here you know have to note o thinking about kill wondering about what life was like on the savanna during the early days of evolution, not actually just make much simpler. So as your Can you can just make a note of movement if you get yourself thinking thinking he catches feeling really angry, because somebody's just bought all the kitty litter and you need some note the feeling of anger and examined, whereas at shown up in my body, is it my chest buzzing and my ear. Turning my ears attorney read what kind of thoughts my having simple notes that, and some people when they hear that they think. Oh well, isn't that just thinking and are you not supposed to think in meditation to answer to that thinking?
inevitable and meditation, because that you can't stop the mind from producing thoughts. That's what it does. The point is just to get knock away by the thoughts, but more importantly, mental, noting is the skilful use of thought to direct you to your direct experience. So, just as your going through this Ss, you you're standing online at the check out. It's going forever. You notice somebody maybe going is, speedily, as you would like to make a little meant load of anger, seeing hearing, and in this way I think, actually, you can reduce the suffering Experience immeasurably. Oh my last meditation retreat. It really occurred to me that if you are suffering. If anything is bothering you, there is something you are not being sufficiently mindful of business. Then you're not be mindful of at all and when you are mindful of something even something unpleasant.
actually in the little nanosecond when your mindful of it bother. You you're just not judge mentally aware of it, so try again the noting practice just making soft little mental notes as you go through this process and every time you get distracted start again, and Just make a little mental note of what it is that has distracted you. I hope what I just said made some semblance of logical sense, I should have issued the caviar that are normally do before the by take the cause, which is another meditation teacher, I'm not a mental health export of justice you tried to meditate a reasonable amount and writes about it, and so you should take everything I say with a grand assault. A great question. I hope a works call me back on me now. Here's question over to a damn good morning walked from Rhode Island question. Here is still present. Obviously you know the real main go here. That's kind of the holy girl. If you will
however, you know, as is a guy who owns his own business and also as a parent of a special needs child. There is a fair amount of time that I need to spend thinking about. You know where I want the company to go, how you get there. Can it be the steps as well as of coming up with scenarios, for we need the inevitable emergencies pop up with my son, and so you know those things are kind of best plan doubted advance. So how do you now? It's? What just being there, which is ok, These things are to be constantly thrown out you and you know in how you could create a business plan for the future while doing that mindfully in the present make you will really bring They talked about two things, one being here business owner and to the parent of a special needs child
I know a little bit about the former, given that I am the last couple of years have been dabbling as in the world of business as a co founder of the Temple. Have your company, and I have some sense of how it's like a running existential crisis. All the time being in business. So I feel you on that. I too parents, but not of a special needs shouts. I it's hard for me to imagine the amount of stress that that would entail and it has to be significant, So I would say you know again based on my limited meditation experience Anne and some experiences in the world's that you're, describing that the planning that you describe as being necessary sounds absolutely necessary and from a business, ten point. You need to think a worst case scenarios. You need to figure out how you gonna developed the business, how you gonna grow it. Should be hired. Who should be? Let go the lot of thinking and plant.
that needs to be done and then again from the apparently sampling you talked about sort of thinking through. How are we going to have, and all any number of tricky scenario that could arise Visa v, our child? All of that to my ears sense, absolutely. Utterly reasonable, non negotiable. You have to do that stuff from It reminds me of a conversation that I had with my meditation teacher Joseph Goldstein that I wrote about in ten percent happier where I was on a meditation retreat and we are nearing the end of the retreat and he said to the group this was in silent, meditation retreat, but the teachers were allowed to talk in this was actually during them short period everyday, where you were allowed to ask questions of the teacher and so he said something about like a rat we're getting toward the end of the retreat. You're gonna urinate start thinking about What you gonna be doing when their retreat is over. Try to resist that an Irish
my hand and said women You know if I miss my flight. That is real world consequences is not this, isn't a and adjusted a thought. That's disconnected from reality and he said something brilliant that truly in this is over used phrase, but but in this case apt- changed my life, he said yes, it's true. If you miss your flight, that problem, but on the seventeenth time that you find yourself running through all the horrible things that may or may not happen to as a consequence of a mist flight. Maybe ask yourself a one simple question: is this useful? And I remember kind a rocking back in my chair thinking. Oh yes, my whole life has been organised around the principle of protective fretting no just but worrying and gaming out all the potential
moves to be made in the event of whatever whore. Movie might arise in in my life by the way. Most those things never happened, as Mark TWAIN is reported to have said the worst things that ever happened to me, never app but many of us operate on this idea that we need. The only way we can survive is to constantly worry so. My argument to you, based on that advice that Joseph gave to me eight or nine years ago that I've road tested every day of my life is yes, of course, you, We need to be thinking about business issues and parenting issues, but at some point you reach the point. of diminishing returns, and at that moment that's the time to ask yourself. Is this youth Somebody set me on twitter the other day, the day actually made that the homes green on their phone,
or they get a room and they sent a reminder on their phone that pops up every hour, or so they just asks them. Is this useful? It's an incredibly sorry to be repetitive, useful little Manfred too, to employ so Then I guess the other party. Your question is: how can you stay mindful, while doing this planning and worrying yeah absolutely just use the tools, were there were we're learning in meditation witches can you occasionally pull yourself out of your head in back into your body? Just fur nanotech at a time to me? No make you less crazy mess last serve lost in this whirl of thinking that goes on one were planning, but of course, you he you carried away, and that is part of the deal don't expect for perfection here, but just rely on the basics of the press. Which will remind you to come back to right now, what's happening in your body.
in your mind at any given moment, add also throw in this mantra get in the habit of using that is in you know is that actually we crossed the line, often between what I call constructive anguish. You know useful. Worrying and and the other side of that line with you, which is useless rumination. So thank you. Well, good luck. I hope that I hope that helps If you want to call and have me lamely answer your questions: here's the phone number six hundred and forty six, eight hundred and eighty three eight hundred and thirty, two six thousand six hundred and forty six, eight hundred and eighty three eight thousand three hundred and twenty six. This week she was STAR Janice Martorano. If you read said happier you met her because I met her many years ago. I think two thousand ten or something that I had heard about her work. She was a vice president.
At general mills, and she was kind of viral leave, spreading meditation through general mill. Which, as I often joke is like the most american company, you can think of they make hamburger helper and their basin Natasha Minnesota, and I flew out there and she had very successfully injected Meditation into the executive level of this company so much so that they actually have imitation rooms in every building in their corporate campus and minnetaki and She really help me see that you can be trade and in it let's just say, counter intuitive environment, for invitation, maybe even a hostile environment for meditation, not elites, surviving but also thriving and more than just driving, also helping other people thrive,
she's since left general male, she now runs something called the institute for mindful leadership is a non profit and they teach ball in leadership positions both in the corporate world and outside the corporate world. Howdy he's meditation make themselves better at what they do and and and better at their actual lives as well. Before we see I just want to say that, if you're interested in her work, she doesn't talk about this during the packets, but I will talk about it now, starting on May first he's got this online program called finding the space to lead You can learn more about it at her website, which is mindful leaders, dot, Org. Ok, he would go. Janis murderer anybody who read ten percent happier if you didn't know, what's the matter with you well. No will have seen at least you're a little bit of your backstory, but just as a refreshing,
let's do the long version here, because I think it is really interesting. I've heard it before but is really interesting. How did you come to meditation, given your cut a unique circumstances in Minnesota at the time sure Kay so go all the way back to the turn of the century. The year. Two thousand The time I was what I call the twenty first century juggler, which is what probably most of us in the work world, but consider ourselves and that's you- have lots of balls, and for me The main goal every day was to try and keep him from falling, and so the balls in the air were. I was at that time a new vice president, I was married to school age, kids, but butter of aging parents and the president of a non profit board in twin cities, so lots of balls in the air and actually, I felt very happy. I was poor
You much doing what I had always hoped I would be able to do. Interesting work, joyed. What I did. My kids were great. My husband's gray, I loved my parents, are real. important to me, and I was. how to give back in the community's. I kind felt like this great and then the phone rang one spring morning- and it was our ceo and he said, general mills is gonna, buy pills, bury so and act. session of equal size organizations, my ridge No training on Wall Street was as a deal lawyer. So doing deals is not new to me, but as it would turn out and surprising to everyone, this would turn into the deal from Hell and rather than take fibres six months for a whole host of reasons. It would drag out to a full eighteen months more about six months into this. I remember coming from
car to the office one early one morning, and I ran into someone from an officer from pills very an he s. Me how the latest round of interviews at the FCC went- and I explained Well, you know federal trade, Mr Barroso, that was what was getting. It was getting our hung up on the feds, getting hung up that they have to stay in. Actually, one person at the empty c and d I should tell you that that hold the old now that I'm not in that line of work. Right now, I can say it was about. Ninety nine cent cake makes if you can believe, but that's a whole. Another topic anyway, I came back and said you know, I thought we answered all our questions. You brought them, sent the experts they wanted. It all went great. The interview seem to go well and the way out of the door they hand, another pile of questions to respond, respond to any, sort of Noddy care care get it, but as it was
walking away. He said you know if you can't get this deal through. Ten thousand pills by employers are gonna, lose her job, so no, like I needed more stress at the corner, more pressure to get this done, because the team- and I were already working seven days a week to to satisfy a mill- questions and get everything that they want it done. and we literally I remember days, were I would work out twice a day to have energy at night, for the strategy sessions or for filling out more questions, so is really were burning. The camp both hands an array on that same time, my mother, who had been ill passed away. This rocked my very foundation. I was very close to her no time to grief no time to do anything had to get the steel done. Ten thousand families ten thousand jobs and in my mind, that meant ten thousand families and be specially because both headquarters were in the twin cities.
me that fella, ten thousand neighbours who are gonna be effected. So back to work right away about sick months later, still within that eighteen month window, my father, who is not ill, had some surgery and as a complication of surgery, became quadriplegic and passed away. So all this confluence of personal tread they professional chat, challenges beyond anything. I had encountered meant that during that period of time. I was, sleeping well, I'd lost twenty pounds, always kind of stuff, and yet we I did what we do were trained to play hurt we just keep going because that's what has to happen. There is a lot at stake. and then it was over and the deal went through and I had a little bit more time and I thought ok now bounced back, but I did it and what that was a big surprise.
This to me because, as I said, I'd done deals before in their crazy and have taken many have some space new bounced back. Only this time I didn't So, although I started juggling again that twenty first century jugglers stuff started again, I profoundly aware that something had been lost during that period of time. Then, although on the outside, I look like I was doing everything I something had been lost, significantly lost and but it would learn later from the work that I would ultimately do. The research before the development of the mindful leadership curriculum, what learn from neuroscientist. What's words that you can get to a point of such depletion that your resiliency is gone and it's not easy to bounce back A good friend of mine was
a physician and knew me very well and said you know what you need to do. You need to go to a spot. That would be the answer. If you go to spa, you'll sleep, you'll, eco, food and ill bounced back it'll be ok, go to spot for weak, ok, so you young ton. I had young children at that time. The last thing I could think of doing was home and telling them minds going on vacation without you, as it was. My husband, my wonderful husband and my children, I had to sun on vacation twice during that a team on paired without me because I could not get away, though this was not happening, but he was variants sent any sent me. This link up the number of one's got survey spot in the country, and one morning when I got it, I got this link
send an email- and I was really feeling tired. I just click on the link and opened this magnificent photo perhaps this place in Arizona, and you felt better just watching the pictures. Just looking at the pictures made, you feel better. It was just gorgeous And I think it ok yeah gorgeous spot, but I'm not going to a spot for a week, and then I some others this little blurb in the corner. They had special programmes and one was the power of mindfulness, an intensive retreat for executive and honestly and my work little mind at that point. I said, ah, maybe if its intensive it'll category and for executive and executive, what else could you
anyway. I went home. I spoke with my husband about it. I did some research into this too, because what is mindfulness stuff in the business world, nobody knew with this is the year. What do those thousand still two thousand so euro? Two thousand one very marvellous, wasn't goal. That point. It wasn't even further away from the angle. It wasn't even known. And my full leadership didn't exist at all and but mindfulness was not in the business world, and I looked in his like well, what is this? right? I mean I grew up here in New Jersey. I went to school in what you I don't hug trees. I don't and I'm not burning, incense. What's this stuff and so like to throw up who's? The John Cabot's then cause he was teaching and psychosis sky, and then I felt there is, I saw oh, isn't MIT got ok he's into slant, ok, training, the mine I get. That does not make sense to me, because I actually grew up with that idea. I had a father
Who believed that mathematics would train your mind, so the idea that you could do things that could train in a capacities of mind was in a hard left for me to make Celtic ok. What's that We just quickly say that, if anybody's interest in John Cabbage and he's a former guest, others Pike S, who can go? Listen to that gas are so ultimately I went sixty is Arizona desert. To this a Dan among the ten hardest things I've ever done in my life. What was unable to place you into Marivaux? Ok, I've been there. I was giving a talk. Not I wasn't in them. I wasn't children so just It would be. Ok, if you were Chile right, that's where you go up there you go So I remember the very first day John Small group of twelve of us in the desert. Right to all of us. even that was a beautiful resort, ridden no time to enjoy the resort, as we would go six early morning till nine o clock at night practicing
engaging in dialogue, ok, so the very first night sitting in uncertain a first time we're together and Johnson. are you gonna, be seen by clock time about forty five minutes, and I remember thinking or into what, for forty four, how we're just gonna sit here. I'll go crazy only out, and in fact, after a day and a half. I was ready to go and told him so The government has not kept do if he was being the fabulous and and I wanted amazing teacher that he is. We talked and I stayed, and I will tell you that from that first time where I thought I won't survive five minutes, the last day. When I remember going for the first early morning, six thirty in the morning we would carry are cushions out too edge of the desert in and sit in this Kieva? Ah far, morning, silent practice, and I remember that last day carrying my little cushion out to the edge to have our morning and all I could think of all that was, in my mind, was
in our it I'll, never be enough. That's what happened then sixty. So I was hit hard by this. So that's how I was introduced to mindfulness. That's not how mindful leadership came up, but that tourism what was happening in your mind that was so useful for you. When I stopped it was a lot like hitting a brick wall, because I had been living in life That was going a hundred fifty miles an hour for so long, but I had no idea what it was like to actually stop an enhanced at this moment and actually fully be here for this moment, as opposed to being on autopilot and being that juggler awe and it opened up a whole amazing aspect of my life to me. It also
started to teach me one of the big aha moment such as why such a critical part of the work that I do now. The institute is the idea, But you could notice. Thoughts was mine blowing to me like. Oh my gosh, you could actually just rest and notice thoughts. I think and dissolving because that gave me a different way of being in relationship to those sought, no they're, not owning you as much sooner. General mills D tell everybody about her husband. No, in fact I was a closet meditate her. because I went back- and here was the big issue I come back. I worked at first. I walked into my home my husband notice, the difference in moments after I arrived home like oh, my gosh. This is like what happened. And I started to have a regular daily practice, but I,
had no support, support around me at all. So here I was a corporate executive. I Absolutely told, no one about this and much That was because I didn't know how to describe the shot know what to say about it. I wasn't sure exactly what the impact would be. It was new and I was still a curious I the wanted to learn a lot more so I just set about learning and I learned from many teach earth from many different ideologies, it was empty. and to me I wanted to hear from a lot of folks and began to notice. at the idea of living into art, the best of humanity, actually exists. Lots of places. Lots of theology lots of cultures and the idea that we can train parts of our mind in
certain ways and it has physiological changes. I wonder to learn. The neuroscience saw I was learning in practice mode four years before I started to consider that I really hate to bring this out and it really became ahead too. I can see for a long time. kept saying no- and this is gonna, be my friend and that's enough- and I said it almost immediately within a few months seeing how it was changing the way I was not only at but also at work with my department in my company and then I was then came the day. And it literally was one day when I decided the has had such an impact on leadership and in the training I had been doing just kind of us today. No leadership development and how it began
and two intersect in phenomenal, powerful ways you mean you already involved in traditional leadership development within the corporation. Yes, yes, four year for decades, and not only in their company but impasse companies they helping executives rise up, etc, to carry out an in people in My department as part of an office as part of a corporate officer was involved, and I was always interested in my own leadership. How do I get better at this myself and then I started to see very big changes. That were happening in my own leadership and in the way I was coaching others and mentoring others. So I was at an end. the first meeting one day where they had set aside an entire day to talk about innovation, gather all thee. So from all around the world together for a full day had some concerns Then we were going through all kinds of stuff exercises, the certainly anything and fight.
I got to the end of the day. Not much progress had been made, and one officer who is a good friend stood up and said. Look: here's the deal We don't have bright people and organisations, we do. We have bright creative people, but here's what happens? We get a group. people together, we wanna beak, more credit, about something. We want approach something indifferent way. Somebody says something and before The words even touch the table: eight people pounced on it. We ve tried it. Where there's no funding will never get approval, blah blah blah blah all the stuff in it dies before the seed even has a chance to. Is there something here? Should we turn it this way, and that way and in that moment- it felt like that was all a lot of storytelling alot of reactivity I also had a great deal of feeling of compassion, for people
that room who I knew so many of them personally had great regard for these people, as individuals knew that these are with bright minds in good heart, and they get crushed and of well buy stuff that I knew in from my own experience. Certain combination of mindfulness and leadership development would make better how did it got me? I wouldn't want to put a fine point on this, because now Meditation is an all sorts corporations. It's not surprising when you hear that apple in Google on Twitter and at nine. All these other corporations are doing my fulness for their employees, but this was not, common when you started to gingerly, broach it with your colleagues. So you're at this was a risk. So how did you go about taking this risk was. It actually was a very big risk and I knew was a big risk and that's why I said it really got to a point where I could not do it. That's. I saw so much
you know it's a big word and an I'm about, say suffering, but you know people here that word and it can get creepy meaning to it and what it really just felt to me like there's a lot of potential here, there's a lot of annexed here that doesn't mean to be here. A lot of potential is not being tapped and just felt like I had so much caring for my colleagues that Our young and I'm gonna try and I'm gonna see what happened so the way. How do I try right? How do you do this? So I just start it too literally, I would be walking the halls I'd be in meetings with people. Do my job as the debt the General Council and I'd see someone an I'd say: oh you know that's ten, his! open minded about stuff, Mummy, just see and I'd say, have some kind of, Conversation about? Hey, you know, I've been exploring this kind of interesting
meaning of the mind. It has some really big effects on leadership, and you know d, and the thing that surprised me was. The answer I got from people was a whole, is what's been different about his people noticed, and that was a surprise me. I knew it, but what underestimated, was how much other people saw and so what I got was yarn what you're talking about what this mindful my staff. But if that's what it was sure I'm gonna learn about this stuff. Anderson, genocide and refugees diagnosed. This proves a point there, I say a thing all the time with you're saying better. Just in many ways of people ask you know what, if I get really the meditation, how do I get others around me to do it and I always say: don't talk about it because you're probably going to be very annoying enough putting- and you did this thing- which was to lead by example. They saw in you something they wanted for themselves at sea
modeled it and by the time you broached with people, he wasn't annoying. He was like, oh ok, we'll gimme, some of that please yeah yeah and What is it that is so so important? You can't make someone do this, and so, although we work with individuals, We work with organizations and teams. We always ask somebody says to me: hey I've got this leadership team. We come on retreat with you for your five day retreat and we want the whole team to come. The first question out is: does everybody want to come? Because if it's the leader of a team in the meanwhile now we're making everybody come as a disaster kiss, you know this is hard. It's easy, you really can't get to the kind of things that were talking about this kind of transforming transformed leadership. The kind of touching in to your best south, so that you can increase focusing
clarity and creativity and compassion. You can't do that by flipping a switch or doing this for three minutes a day so. If somebody saying we want to invest in this for a whole team, I often are my other instructors at the institute will often have a phone call with everybody and say: okay, what are your questions? What do you think's going to happen here? Let me tell it: let me answer your questions about it they know what they're getting into, but southern the first group very brave group right, big bang, went away, a general will yet dispersed very first group of thirteen. They went away for four nights. This was not a hey, come listen for an afternoon if you want to do that, you gonna jump in, and so we had an intensive retreat and they came back and I was very interested in gathering feedback I wanted my our researchers to do anything you want to be me. so I had our researchers do that
and the number one most use term from the and every single person there was an officer director. The number one most used term was transformer, but here is the problem. They came back and this was the thing you did what channels in other. people they work for their colleagues in their department. What's a thing you did, you are common in and what you would you do? Nobody could describe what it was So all they would say with you and I can even describe what it was. You just have to go. Do this so go. Do it? You know you next time she offers at you. Do it too, and as a result, of course, you can't send everybody away for four nights. So, as a result, the great leader do a great leaders do when their touched by something they want other people to touch it too. So within a week. I had one of the Vps from their retreat say. I want my whole division to have access to US
people want it. I want to make it available to him by can't send them all away. So what else have you got, and so I took that curriculum. And turned it into a weekly, seven weak exploration. That was to every one, because I firmly believe that every single one of us is a leader and every single one of us has the capacity to lead with excellent, and that was to begin things at general, males by the time I left to start the institute more than seven hundred employees had had full training in mindful leadership met you. When you were in the throes of this thing, I flew out there two thousand ten or nine, and did a story for ABC News about you listen. I then I use you in the book as the example of looked at least likely meditate her in the least likely meditation spot. By that point, I mention this in every speech I give than mine general mills. You know the people may hamburger helper have met it.
She rooms and all the buildings in and their corporate campus and Minnetaki as in Minnesota, which is amazing, and because of you, so you lie you started the my instrumental Monday's meeting. What does it do and who you? What your, which are life like now another leap off a cliff because again and still not in the business world when I'm starting at bought those five day retreats had word, had spread outside of general melts? We had started to allow professionals. from other organizations to come on those retreat along when we we usually had those between two and four times a year and we'd, let other people like some he would tell a colleague at another company or whenever we let them come as well, then the demand got so big that I start have those same feelings of over like too much like the pills, Berryville, this time a little smarter and that ok got gotta pick here, something Hasta happen, and so
decided to start a non profit. The institute for mindful leadership, and do this full time and recruited people who would apprentice with me to learn what this is. So what we do is we work. We have our role open, restoration events in a year and they ran from one full day to four weeks, live online. So all of our teaching is live online and then we still, do the five day night intensive, retreat. and so that's one of our missions, and then we do customized all of that customized for organizations and teams who want it. We work with the government, we work with nonprofits and we are non profit and and were very happy to be a non profit that allows us to do all this. Make sure that nonprofit leaders have access to our work as well, so we always have bad available so far out there in a minute corporation, and I am interested Spi blackmail time I work for this x or why cup?
me and I'd like to introduce mindfulness. How do I go about it, giving you a call. Only one way to go about would be great and looking at our websites, easy, it's mindful leaders, dot org, just remember plural, mindful leaders and daughter because we're not a company were a nonprofit. So my that's the place to get information and either join us individually or have us and I have all of our instructors are people who have been in. What I called in the fire. So they are present and some international companies or managing director of financial organizations, social workers from healthcare organizations, but these are all- People who themselves know both sides. They know about leadership and then about mindfulness. What would you say leadership? What do you mean? Yes, so a leader added core is someone who influences right mates about influence? If you, about whose leader is someone who has influence okay. So if you
Think about us. Individual interest stopped for men and think about it ever single person every day with our actions are inactions are words we influence for better or worse every day, we our community, our families people around us. The work we do so in that context you can think of mindful leadership, training as occur a that is about teaching, ourselves to more often influence for better, and less often influence for worse, so You can be a leader without a title inside we have all seen that many times in our lives. If we start to think about it, we can probably think about it right now. If you work in an organization Is there someone in your department who may not have a title but as somebody who really has an influence on the department who really has an influence either their compassionate their creative
really smart they're, just the kind of open a person who you want about ideas off of, and they may or may not have a title. The opposite is true. HU as well, we ve seen people were titles, big title, sometimes big titles, and they see who have influences but not for better influence for worse so or not, influence. So it's not about leadership is really about influence, and then you say: okay! Well, how do you influence for better While we have a very specific way that we incur so when we talk about mindful leader, someone who influences for better we're talking someone who has culture, they did their and our capacity to strengthen when I call for fundamentals, focus clarity, creativity and compassion, and they do it in the service of
others, so mindful leadership training is never bow. Greed, it's not about self alone. It is always with those for fundamentals. So focus right your ability, even in the world of technology in constant distractions, tis disdain. Tension when you need to Clare knowing your own filters. What is it filters, my ability to make a clean. Our decision in the moment to answer that question. What called for now, not real or to know where my filters are an unconscious bias. So that's the one of really understanding what's here and that's worth noticing. Earth thoughts helps us to start to see what pops up. creativity, innovation on neuroscience tells us that it's in the spaciousness in our mind that we put them together? A new a novel ways, while for constantly doing the loop
of the two: do less there's no space. There is no place for that to happen, and I, like to tell the story thereof of you know you, work at it, a trying to solve a problem in you. You talk to people and you really think about it. He quotas leave in the morning here in the shower and ah the answer comes up, and you said why that's easy answer what we know how come I shows up in the shower not the magic of shower water right. What happens? You're mine hasn't started the loop yet and there is a little bit of space, and the Good NEWS is that with training we can cultivate that quality of spaciousness through reflection. That's why leadership reflection is an important part of what we teach And then compassion compassion as we use it is about deep understanding. So it's not sympathy. It's not empathy, but its deep understand this when we allow ourselves that deep understanding we also
often noticed, sat pull toward an act of kindness and the hardest thing. Learned in now these years of teaching more than a dozen years of teaching. That mindful leadership, is that those foe so those bright mines and good hearts self compassion is hard itself compassion. Self compassion is hardest to me. Ass humans, we get our brass tacks and their talked impact stuff, you're gophers or sell us to start where you ended itself compassion. If I have compassion for myself, I am not going to go soft and just give myself break and not have high standards, No self compassion is about finding the as ways of nourishing yourselves of that, you can do your best work I'm so that deep understanding of yourself could be something as simple as take an example as simple as noticing, because I've been paying pension to my body that I feel it?
Lastly, I wake up exhausted, I'm good, I'm exhaustive, any I'm exhausted all day long, and I start to understand that's here than I that in my body, cells, tat self compassion that pull toward an act of kindness can be something, simple. As I'm gonna go to sleep half an hour early, every night, sweet, I'm just gonna do it can be something a small and simple, as that doesn't mean you try to aid the project you're working on where it makes you more likely to aid the project. In fact, because when you're exhausted you can access your best self show what about compassion for other people We work in competitive environment from walking around worrying about what the people over it and b c might feel about me, scooping them and my, to be fair, not not that I don't done that recently, but but Am I going to be effective in my job, I'm in a competitive environment right so again, if we think about it, as understanding it's really more about. Am I treating people with equanimity.
Am I treating people with respect, my listening, open, heartedly, two people, it's not about giving away a competitive advantage in any way that, that doesn't enter into where it might show up is if the way you got, that scoop is that you stole something for it or you bribe someone for it or you did something that was now Respectful was not in alignment with your principles and and was not ethical. Many of Us- and I should Speaking about my, I am genuinely not speaking about my own situation right now, because I have heard I am lucky enough to have great, really ship, my current employers, but many of us I have in the past when the future are now working for malignant human beings and what? What a? How does one without situation? Mindfully yeah?
that situation, and I can give you an example, and it's not that this is the solution for everyone, but I can tell you just as an example that might give folks some ideas, always teaching that we can't change people around us. What we can change is our relationship to what is here and, As an example, I had someone that I had to work with in one of the job I had who was such a toxic. Person that if I was sitting at my dusk. and their name showed up on the collar id, I get chest pains with that kind of like they're just difficult. I didn't think they nice in any way, and it wasn't even like. Oh, I want people to be nice to me. It was there were harsh. They were toxic to the department, they were just not good. They were good for the business, nothing about them, but they
Are there and so one day when I noticed that just tightening this person was asking for meeting and they were- to be in another building. So I had a long distance walk, eight minute walk, to get their normally. What would happen is the high way. There here comes my story, you know I feel, like feature film in my head twice. She so difficult This is gonna be miserable, and we're gonna be able to get her to where we really need to go with us. meeting is just going to be contentious and she's going to be blah blah blah. You know by the time I arrived at, the doorway. Can you imagine how I was right, defended tight, There is virtually no chance that anything positive could come from that. Just because I right that way. So one day and decided take my practice into that situation in a very simple way.
And so next time this house, then, where this phone call happiness, I ok, I'm gonna, try something differently. I know you're familiar with kindness practice. Some people call loving kindness practice, but what a ring they simply is it's. Just thinking of freight is that would be things that Everyone wants like feeling healthy or feeling happy or feeling strong or being at ease in kind of the basic humanity shared goals in it. What does each individual want. So what I did in the entire walkways with every step, I would say one of those things. May she be happy? May she be healthy me? She live at ease. I would go every step, We had no idea what would happen from this, but I thought: try. It experiment, I'm a big fan of experimenting, I arrived there and I was amazed at the
sense of calm and openness set We had a meeting looking at the meeting and the doorway she stopped man said: hey Jana. That was a really great meaning. I did said nothing to her about what happened. There was nothing changed, except how I arrived there so sometimes we can look at. Is there a way to me what's difficult in our lives, a little more openness, a little more easy for ourselves and that can begin to make things. Did we become best friends now, but it was a different world kinship, and so when we work for people who are toxic, what we can, look on is, is there some way that first I can meet this away? That's not adding to the difficulty, then from that, is there some way that I can make it a little bit
a small step but wise in on us. We're not the toxic ones, because you can't change people around. You can only change how you meet what's here and if we side that we're going to change the whole world to be like. We want it to that is a futile effort and that's really gonna. Just the plead us. In my experience speaking of toxicity? Do you think boosting them on his quotient in corporate life could have a positive impact on but what were now learning is a scourge of sexual harassment. I think and help both making women feel empowered to take some small steps. Them cells to some of what holds That is a very real lash back. and some of what holds
Women back is us. Fear that we feed in our heads- and this isn't just about women but often times one of the great gifts of being on this mindful leadership journey was noticed. At times when we are telling ourselves stories and help stories, keep us from our best lives. our best leadership, impostor syndrome, impasse but more than sometimes in in an organization we start telling ourselves like was taken, ample one of the things we work with. His calendars is people's feel like they have no time and we actually due reflection on calendars and why the things that people start to notices or why my going to not meaning. There are five people from my department going to that meeting. Why am I going there and then to answer that question? Why are you going there? So we started Look at all, because I've taught myself this that
while people will think I'm not interested if I don't go or if I don't go there's gonna have an impact on micro or sullens who's gonna be talking about us. That's me, favorite one, you know so until it's gonna be talking, but the reality is nobody's talking about you. Weeping people talk about us both. We don't talk about other people, they're not talking about us. So many, times. We have this fear that drives us to do things in the business world. That when we can stop and again have a different relationship to the stories that are coming up in our minds, say what I suggest people do when there in that practice of working with our thoughts is just hold. It gently hold thoughts would arise simply as an I want me hold onto them, but notice them with than enough spaciousness to say they may or may not be true. You'll have to dismissal a push in where anything else, just that
They may or may not be true, and what, if I can notice it in that way, and then ass myself? That question once called for in this moment when that thought arises, but you think having more people with some meditation of their belt might in any way down on sexual harassment, people or mindfully surfing their urges, as opposed to just acting them out. Well, in general. I think we can have less reactivity by, there's so much that goes into why people feel free to engage in sexual harassment that I think it's a lot to put on. Mindfulness as well. That's gonna curate! I think, just like any behavior, whether its disrespect or harassment or
Any number of ills that we could talk about. It will be helpful but not the panacea. Until I certainly wouldn't say it's gonna, take it out of the work place. If everyone meditates, I think it's one one way to waiter stiffer penalties making completely unacceptable. Having more women in leadership roles, there are lots of things that need to be done. You mentioned calendar Is this arm intriguer? That, because I would say, the biggest problem in my life is that I am too busy I often described as drowning in chocolate. I love everything. I'm doing so. It's all chocolate, but still drowning. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on on business yeah. So one of the things that when I go when I go
back to when I was first developing my own practice and bring it into leadership and looking at that one of the practices that started to look at was my calendar and every morning when I came in and I you know tat my computer on and start to look through what was on my Agenda for that day, what was what was coming up in that day, I think a few moments and try to look at each thing as if I had never seen it before and pay attention to what was a rising. In my mind, the thoughts and also in my body- and it was a bit very telling exercise to do every day, so you might want to try it out just one today in the morning, taking a look, pay attention and takes three or four minutes and then I would leave myself every day with a question. Is there one place today, where I can make a conscious choice
it is, and you can fill in the blank, for whatever is meaningful for you. That is more personally nourishing. That is more. efficient, that is less wasteful. all you can fill in that blank for whatever is meaningful for you at that time. That has not burn me out. That is going Allow me to connect more deeply with my family in a filling the blank for yourself, and now tat wonderful practice to start with what people often discover is that the most in Orton thing- truly, the most important things are not on our calendars, and so that can lead to an intention to put them on their calendars to actually make space on their calendars. For whatever is most important in your life, so it the combination of reflecting on what's important, of looking work, critically on it. I know for me: I had a wonderful assist.
and for many years I went out of the and in the interest of being of service and of doing a good job. I accept, or she but except on my behalf, everything and I read placed at one point that there were remember the number now, but at the time, their products or fifty five thousand employees- and I really Fifty four nine hundred and ninety nine had the right, what time on my counter, and only one person Didn'T- and that was me- one of the harm moments. In terms of how do I do this more effectively? How do I do more efficiently so that I can have that little space and speaking of base, one of the things that related to Callin during and something that I noticed in the early years of my own, mindful leadership Journey- was that then, when we finish things and maybe Danube. You relate to this as well. We finish things. People tell us g. That was great
you know- did good job on that that that project went well an interview went well that cloud did well under your guidance. We do a lot of work with teachers as well, and yet we feel tat was. It was good, but there's just kind nagging sense, for there was for me that yeah, but still My best still something could have been an again found the body. could then more creative could have been more compassionate could have been more forward thinking it could have been more whatever found the blank and I started to pay. attention to that nagging feeling of yeah, but not not really That's not really what I thought I could do. in those early years of teaching, mindful leadership to the other exacts and people at every level a general mouth, I start to hear the same thing from the officers from the directors that nagging
so I turned it into a reflection for my, health and for them all right. What's missing, what do you need to be the absolute best Do you think you can be what missing? What do you need now in now most situation knew ass. Leaders are professionals. What do you need? I need a bigger by I need more people, I need better direction. You know filling the bank again, but that's what you'd here and here any of that for people who have on this mindful leadership journey and not or came up for me what I heard over and over again and what came up for me was a really simple thing What do I need? I just need a little space. I just need space. And that in fact, was the inspiration for the book finding the space to lead? It's that space that we collectively,
eight when we start to do things like the calendar exercise likely due reflection, inspiration on leadership principles. We are to learn more about. ourselves. What import in how to heartily in a way that is more often for better and less, for course, whether that in our family or community arena our companies to work mean practically like I've. I've started to experiment recently with saying no nicely to be like I, you know I am a little overload right now. I can't do that is that we are I wonder to space, and then what do you do that space? I don't know what I'd do it, but would you recommend yeah? Ok, so that's exactly of does a perfect example. So that's one of the examples some of it is about letting over ego, because our ego sucks allotted time. of our days when we start to look at and it's not like egos a bad thing, but sometimes we
eating our ego with things that really are in a bell what's important to us and that's why it needs to be both things like what's really important to professionally was really important. You personally and then, where we see in time out of the day that really doesn't feed those things that are about that. Its also can something as simple as putting a space into every week into every day. one group that I worked with, which was a whole department and they wanted to improve their innovation and we put in place for everyone a space and we called it free parking like the monopoly game and the reason called a free. marking a fear monopoly France fan or for those who aren't it's a corner peace, and when you a monopoly, it's a place where you get to take a breath because nobody's gonna money from you there. Nobody is also the
It's the way my family always played where you put all the fine money Sophie actually Lena there. You got new riches. You got surprise something that helped you. So we called these one hour times during each week, free parking spaces and they were sacrosanct. Nobody could touch that one hour for unused Sonny. I couldn't give it away. Nobody can intrude on it, you know that was it that one hour in the work week and then to your question, There was a great question: what will you do with it all. During the week, we gave people of free parking little no pat, stick by their computer and in a week we all have these things. Where you say, we see a headline section I'd like to know more about that? Seek you draw it down, or I really run this past so, and so I will. I wish I had time to make a call. I wish I had time to set of coffee somebody or whatever it is you a list. So when you come to that our you open up your book and say
which of these things he had. This is all the stuff I didn't get to all week. It started make an enormous difference in people's court. They have their lives in there stretch to the stuff. That's interesting to them. That's nourishing to them, and that really move the dial in ways that were personally important people. One last question, and I want to get to this properly brought this last question. You makes things a little of noxious, but I would ask you to me, So there is there's a criticism of what do which I just for the record. I am a supporter of not the criticism of what you do other. I think the criticism has merit the criticism, that introducing mindfulness into corporations is some believe questionable. Now, for example, you are for general mill There are a lot of people, criticise general mills, the nutritional quality and content of the products. Et cetera. So in the end, what are we doing? Who we helping by bringing this to
people who are executives, who may be you know, slashing our benefits or selling stuff, that's not good for us, or your maybe they're, introducing mindfulness into the corporation to make more play employees are some of the criticism that we ve heard. So how do we respond to this yeah? It's a good question, and I don't think it's an unfair question. I think the question should be asked. I go back to a couple of thanks. I guess there's two things. I answer. The first thing I would say is. corporations or not corporations, corporations or groups of individuals, and while that sound simplistic, it's not it's important to remember that the people are the. And who make choices. So it's not general mills making a choice. It's an individual! It's a group of individuals who are making choices and so in my experience when you can have a son which I certainly had a general males there and
most of the organisations that I work with, and I will tell you that there are some that I will not work with that. The institute has said no to and I can get into that that not by name, but I can tell you why if we have time but for the one swear We are happy to work with people. These are people who are some of our best brightest, there well educated. Most of these people are, people, as I said, bright minds and good hearts, they get overwhelmed with pressures and strong and they become reactive when they should be responsive and not should be, but it would be better for them to be restored and so when we are able to start teaching people how to reach their best cells to touch their printed, which is why our stuff isn't about teaching somebody to meditate for ten minutes with their breath. Our curriculum gets to what are your principles? What are your efforts? Where does it show up? What do you do when dissonance between what you're out
to do, and what you now know are your core principles. That's all a part of our curriculum and what we aim for and hope for and encouraged. But to look at is: where are the win win win choices? You need to keep the organ patient health yep, because you want people to have jobs, but we so win win, win where's the choice, that's good for you innovation good for its employees and good for the big picture good for the community, and I, seen again and again and again that, when given the ability to not feel overwhelmed and reactive. That they want to find those choices to and when give them the chances to be their best saw it's what I believe that is the best hope
for US meeting, the problems is to take these people, who are our best and brightest and who I believe most of them have good heart and we help them me. What is here in a different way? and find those win win win, but I think a good place to close would be on this prop that you brought me witches of nobody can see this, but I can see it and it's a word cloud. So tell me tell me about this One of the earliest exercises we do in the institute's curriculum is a reflection on leadership axons, and to do this we first teach people that, although we ve been well trained to use our minds for analysis, which is an important part of leadership. We have to know how to analyze, we also need to cultivate and develop our minds capacity for reflection, because reflection is that spaciousness that place where
we can be more creative, more innovative and also where we touch our own wisdom, and everyone has this abundance of wisdom that we need to, tap into more. It's that connection that we all have as well. So we do this reflection and guide this reflection, by inviting people to call to mind some on who has had an influence on their lives. That really touched in some way, so some that, as we said, leadership is about influence, someone has influence their lives either at work, school in the community doesn't matter where could be in your family, what somebody said that was a great leader, because that person knew how to implement for better, and we have them bring that person to mind really bring at mine and then ask just one reflection question: why, out of
everyone whose touched your life that person come to mind. What is it about him or her, and when we do this reflection, the work. It's that arise. We then ask people to say what are the words of phrases that arise, and so that TAT cloud that you have in front of you is a compilation of areas where the words listener and supportive or rightness centre, respectful, genuine, humble visionary, compassion, patient connected those are the biggest words yes, and it does not matter whether you do that reflection in our experience we have done this before I've done it. I speak about my own experience here. I've taught that reflection The world economic forum torrid in China, Australia all over North South America? does not matter where I do it doesn't matter. What culture, is, doesn't matter what the professions doesn't matter. What level of employ these same words come up and never
Have I had anybody say met quarterly earnings or worked well with the, Lord or any of those things any of those kinds of things, and yet I can remember decades of training, leaders and and evaluating professionals on their leadership qualities, and we would not be including virtually any of those words on it, and so this is a big aha for people, especially experience leaders. At that point, say So this is what we're talking about when people are touched and wise and important for people to be touched, because when you're in the trenches, when you're doing something it's difficult or stressful time sensitive. You want people to feel like they're all in and that their connected to you and that you're going to have their backs and that you gonna, be there for them that you're not just command and control you're, not less
being by division. You not leading by bullying you're, not leading in those ways that are not excellent, are not mindful get the best out of people for sure of his via what I think about I've never worked for him, but when I think about who would come to my for me as a great leader, max my elder brother ass, you see Harris who doesn't listed as Pike so I can see nice things about, does not lead to them, but the at these words are all would be what I would describe my brother's being. before we go. Let's do what I call the plug zone. Legit plug everything give us. I know you mention it, but let's go back on the website the name of the book any where you are over social media. Anything you like to get out there gray topping thank you, so mindful leaders, dot org is where you can find information. We are happy to work individually with organizations. We work with government and nonprofit him and for profit. We
what teams and whole organizations, and then we also have for the folks who want to do it on their own or for the folks, unwanted check us out before they bring us to their organization. We offer basically three things a one day which call which is called fighting the space to lead a fall are weak, live and which is so once a week for ninety minutes, but its live in real time within instructor and and then are for night a five day for night retreat witches. Obviously, residential and our most, intensive training in that's, usually a wonderful gathering of international leaders, and so you can check this out on the website. Social media were all those regular places. They spoken linked in and all the rest, so I'd encourage people to come
and the book is finding the space to lead. It's a practical guide to mindful leadership, and so, along with the book, comes a whole host of free meditation and leadership reflections right on. You can look at finding a space to lead dot com, that's a dot com, and we have it in english and spanish Meditations Twitter, Gower Twitter as well. What is it it's actually my name Janis Moderato via our twitter, but instead four mindful leadership is also there are some. Thank you. Thank you for a job Ok, that does it for another edition of the ten percent happier podcast. If you liked it, please take a minute to subscribe rate us all of you, wanna suggest topics. You think we should cover or guests that we should bring in hit me up on twitter at Danby. Harris importantly, I want to thank the people who produce this podcast Lauren Efron Josh
hand and the rest of the folks here at ABC, who helped make this thing possible. We have tons of other broadcasts. You can check them out at ABC News broadcasts, dot, com, I'll talk to you next Wednesday,. There's not a person in Amerika who hasn't been impact it in some way by the corona virus pandemic, but it every community there are pockets of people. we're suiting up every day. This is my my day last day of the cylinder stretch of quotas from one of our time, these or America's essential workers, the people who are keeping moving. I turn into a homespun mom and now in a new plants from ABC News. You gonna hear from damage I actually went back to my office and saw a crime, because it is not fair hearing here making sure that our community to sell faintly Bahrain. This is essentially inside the from
emergency room, it's the police, cruiser to the czech outline. You hear what this pandemic sounds. Like the people putting selves norms, which is always a risk that I could breathe, is home to my kids or my husband, or my parents listened to the essentials inside the curve on Apple podcast, refitted, podcast, em,.