« Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris

#164: Ruth King, Being Mindful of Race

For many years it was Ruth King's job to work with large corporations, making them aware of racial bias within their company and helping them rectify it through diversity training and leadership development programs. Over time, for a variety of reasons, she decided it was time for a change. However, just as she was about to move in a new direction, she met a woman who would introduce her to meditation, which in turn would revolutionize how she approached the challenges of her career from that point forward. Have a question for Dan? Leave us a voicemail at 646-883-8326. The Plug Zone https://ruthking.net/
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
From ABC this is the ten percent happier Podcast Dan Harris, hey, hey, guys, apologies in advance! My voice is a little raspy got a cold from my son he's three, so I can't really blame too much, but anyway I digress. Let's get to the show by the way, during the interview, my voice will not be as raspy, because who was taped a while ago and I'm really excited about this interview. I know I said at every week, but I really mean it every week and in this case I mean it in an especially powerful and poignant way, because Ruth King is among, if not the best person I've ever spoken to about how, who address, perhaps the most painful issue in american public life and one of the most painful issues on the planet, which is race, and she just has
incredible way of talking about it and and the role that meditation can play in helping us have successful dialogue, I say this not always result in having sat with her to do this interview, but I've spent some time with her personally, as she just has away about her that just whose is intelligence and reason boldness, that's even a word and compassion. she's got a new book called mindfulness of race, that I recommend and in the course of his interview, whereas hung about the fact that she's done racial awareness, work with major corporations likely Strauss and Entails- has really been on the front lines of this. For a long time, she's also a long time. Meditation teacher and I asked her straight up- you know what about my fear about addressing the stuff has as a white man who as a certain amount of financial and and cultural power. How can I discuss this?
without putting my foot in my mouth and you know her her answers, if or fascinating really helpful to me. So all that is coming up. First, I one one quick item, vision, since then, but dear voice, mouse the businesses that our guest next week is Orange Schoeffer. Who is one was popular. Teachers are act, ten percent happier app and in advance of of him come in on the show. Next week we ve put up a couple of new meditations from him on the EP, one of them about a topic, that's kind of near and dear to my heart, these days, which is self empathy which can sound a little gooey being nice to yourself. Blood, but I've learned through practised recently, where I've been getting into but more of this of reserve, compassion practices, which I thought but on the show before they're a little bit annoying at least at first, but they are, I think, incredibly powerful and will be the subject or the at the core of of the book I'm workin on. Now and she's got one on self empathy, which is really
about how to get through tough situations, and I've always been of the view that the way to get through tough situations is to beat the crap out yourself. It turns out of traditional I've been wrong about that. So this is a meditation. It goes right at that and that one Meditation will be posting on the EP without her up in the EP right now, so check him out then check out or on the show next week, aren't let's do your voice, males here's number one they can escape from. Orlando. I'm just curious what you think about the importance of having some sort. a community or someone to bounce your ideas off as we move forward in your practice and as your learning for myself right now. I really am only learning through the podcast and a couple of books yours included very good. But understand, do not have a teacher. I don't
I've really anyone else around me. That's kind of into the cylinders curious what you think about that importance by flop, love everything you don't buy Thank you out. You know this is a question we tackled before this. I'll get her a reasonably quickly, because I know that in the next question is quite media but yeah. I think teachers are incredibly useful, but not a must. So I spent the first year my meditation practice reading books a ride. There was a podcast that I was aware of it and I don't think I even listen to podcast. At that time I read a bunch of books and went to a few, I'm in New York City, which is such a privilege to be New York City. Were you there are lots of events. You can go to weaken here from teachers, and that was really you utterly practicing on my own and was before since two thousand nine by these before it in meditation apps we're out there
practicing on my own based on the right. You know that the basic instructions for my photos, meditation, are pretty simple and either is fine, but but my practice really took off when I went to my first retreat, which again I am I I we tackle our retreats ginger, because it's not a a lot of you, wasn't it a show are of the view that Europe have the time or maybe even the resources to gone retreat in that's fine I really, as as anybody, listen to the show for any period of time knows. I I think, even if you're doing a minute or two most days, then you're getting a lot of the benefits, so I don't- push you or, by extension, any of the listeners to get more aggressive. Then you need to be so the very individual decision, but if you're up for it finding a teacher can be incredibly powerful It really depends on where you live. Do you have exit most major cities, now have meditation centres of one flavour, another
Secular centres are or popping up in New York and allay Austin Texas, Miami Chicago, I believe in Chicago and then there are more buddhist he places which again I don't think you need to be a bit afraid of the buddhist thing I think they'd they teach really solid meditation techniques in these in these spots, most of them at least unwise. I've been to end this smells and bells of it. If there are, even if there even are smells and bells and formal buddhist ceremonies. You can ignore that stuff. Just focusing on the instruction, but I think the ability to ask questions of inexperienced teacher either one on one or raising your hand and asking questions from a crowd. The benefits are: are you knowing to really be able to run by an individual who spent a lot of time travel. going down the various byways of the mind: what Europe parenting and bill of their good teacher, they're gonna recognise it
the way and be able to give you a couple of options. So if it's available to their teachers in your neighborhood of you find one whose available on Skype, I would say, go for it. The other thing, I recommend is, if you, if you're on the app and I know from the service work, we ve done that a lot of the people as it is by guess or on on the temperature and happier up. We have these coaches, some of the happiest and most frequent user. The users of the EP are the people who talk to our coaches. These people, the coaches, are experienced editors. They live answer your question. You can ask them as many questions as you want free of charge once Europe, the subscriber so take advantage of that, and and these p
this, you will be driving a lot of the benefits of having a teacher by talking to these coach. It. Thank you for that. Question was get onto voicemail number to hide an thanks for all the work he has done and bringing medication, and, like so many people. You certainly take this thirty two year old life. My question is that of in one of Joseph got things guarded meditations on fear in the ten percent happier act, which I am I happy subscriber. He mentions how important it is to fully accept negative emotions, like fear, rather than to resist them, and even tell this personal story about it in some situations. For me, this worked like a charm and the negative feeling does seemingly miraculously dissolve, and it's amazing, but in others.
I invite he is so fierce that if I start clinical setting it enlarges so much that it almost feel like I'm going to be drowned in it like completely overwhelmed my seat and that I might even pull off, and I dont know if I can go through with it. So what I do they then clamp down want to get to a certain point. The question is: have you experienced this before. And how do you deal with it? I'm not sure that the EU has a negative feelings, have the chance to go away. If I keep pumping out and resist them at a certain point, it may be. The point is I can try to assume that they'll or want them to ultimately go away, which is Joseph Point, but I'm not sure I can even get to the point of allowing them in because it's just so overwhelming, and so large thanks so much by. Thank that's a great question. I end everything in a lot about this because, actually we're making a change in the way
a number of changes in the way we handle the voicemail section on the spot cast of first change. For me, is that here too, for I have not heard the questions in advance. We ran a pod care, we rent, podcast listeners survey a few months ago in five hundred of you took a lot of time and answered. Oh really, detailed questions. I am so grateful for that one of the pieces a feeble we got. Was that Why aren't you listen to the voices in advance so that you can give us more thoughtful answers, pretty good his feedback, so now we're gonna be or I'm gonna to be doing that and I think in the future were actually can be brief. Being in his work, the things. I was often saying in my answers, was you know, I'm not an expert, but here's. Here's my take on its work, Finally, in some cases, go into bringing experts and pipe in their answers to your questions, so stay tuned for more changes to come.
anyway, so I long waves thing, I've been able to think a little bit about about that question. Has a news coming and let me just first talk a little bit about the the guided meditation that she references from Joseph Goldstein. He's gotta meditation from Joseph is on. Its is called fear if you search for it in the applicant, find it its excellent talks. A lot about the fact that you, for many years and is life even after a long time. Meditating was dealing with serious doses of fear, both in walking around life and in his meditation practice, but here he found that he started to realize that The attitude in his mind toward the difficult emotion of fear I will be mindful of you. I will try to note that you're here, but there is an undercurrent of. I want you to go away. He calls this and if he says this in the meditation, but he calls this
often in many of the speeches, in order to mind that we think we're being my full of a difficult emotion. But really if we look closely is, the subtle element of aversion were were were being mindful in order for debt. That emotion to go away and that isn't real acceptance and I'm not saying with a wagging finger. Acceptance is hard and a skill that we are training and sometimes it's doable. As we heard in that excellent question. Sometimes it is doable sometime we owe a pushing arises and we are a summons mindfulness, we're ok with the field with the feeling and does have a way of going away, or we just become okay with it and and that being okay with it. He changes the nature and the force. The valence of the IMF,
however, there are times in my experience where it's just too strong, if you have it anxiety disorder. My case have panic disorder, I'm not of the view that I can meditate my way out of panic that I can said and just allow. I am not a good enough, meditate or yet to watch panic arise and pass with. I can't do it, but that that is I'm worried I am, and we are all training, this skill and two over I'm I would argue you will get better at allowing this intense anxiety to just be there, but you think about how far you ve come, that you're able times now at age. Thirty, three etana! How long you been meditating to see something
times the anxiety arise and to say oh yeah, I see it here. It is I'm ok with it and that it can sometimes dissipate or you can just be ok with it and not be paralysed by that's a huge achievement that sometimes it is too strong for you. I don't know what you mean clamping down in order to stop it, but that sometimes it's too strong for you. I guess my opinion is: is that's ok and you're, just gonna get better and better overtime at at this skill of true rightfulness, which has an back of acceptance, so I would say Bravo to you and keep doing the work. And I would I would really be interested to hear in this is we're gonna make over time. As I said in our voicemail section of the show, I would be interested to hear what somebody like Joseph for meditation with teacher say about exactly what to do in the moment where it's too strong, but
I'll tell you what I would do, which is if I was experiencing set, sometimes for me restlessness Is the thing that I you know I can sit with it, the bodies, the physical discomfort of restlessness. I can sit with it for a certain period of time, but after a while I have to stand up. I just like a reach by breaking point, and I talk about this with Joseph and he's just he's. His has any is talked about this too, with physical pain with me. You know something two experiencing physical discomfort unrelated to restlessness or restlessness, that produces a kind of physical discomfort. and he says that you know we're training the ability to sit with us. You want to test your edge here, but at some point it's too much It's ok to stand up and for in my case I will meet all continue the session of meditation while standing up.
And so overtime. I'm just continuously, I hope getting better, accepting and being with these difficult sensations. But you know at a certain point, is just too much So that's my advice in my my overall advice is as like, or my overall responses. You doing a great job keep at it and you will improve continue to approve, over time. I do want to say one other thing. I know I'm giving a long answer to this, but you I've been doing I'm really really quite deep now in in in the research into my next book tentatively entitled. Ten percent nicer, although I don't know, if that's what you told me, but it Billy about kindness and I've been doing a lot of matter, Meta, TT, a meditation, loving kindness. Adaptation and I was on a retreat recently with the teacher spring. Wash em who's been on this show twice and is incredible.
We get a one on one, a loving kindness retreat and I had a lot of really powerful insights during the course of that retreat and one of them is, is directly germane to this discussion about acceptance. Would I found was that I took for me a lot of the difficult emotions, I d during meditation are restlessness and impatience. I just why did I just don't want to be doing it premeditation and went to my retreat. I don't wanna be down the retreat and I'd. Never sleeping fully mindful of that before and what was interesting about do about seeing these difficult emotions arise within the context of matter, but loving kindness, which is often, I think, better, translated as friendliness, this kind of meditation, where your cultivating friendliness, just as brief aside the technique here, as many of you
we know this, but for those of you who don't the technique here is your systematically envisioning people, including yourself and in repeating phrases of well wishing so so may be. Happy may be safe. May you live with, is it said, or at cetera and so you're doing this really annoying practice, but over time it's that you actually start to general hate this feeling of friendliness and within the cut once you ve, created this kind of container of mental friendliness. Once these difficult emotions arise, in my case wrestling this sometimes anger frustration, although at first by a more mindful of seeing it because of the mind, is tuned up and out truly accepting it with some friendliness. As to me was a mean. Pete meditation teacher talk about this all the time. That is not just enough to note, with some non judgmental remove whenever I admit it, whatever emotion or sensation your experiencing, but to do,
so with some friendliness and warmth. Well, ignored. The latter part of that and structure couldn't really know what it meant, but on this retreat, where the mind is flooded with this friendliness, I rest oh yeah. Actually, I can have some warmth doesn't mean I'm site that I'm feeling so restless. I want to run away, but and see it as was so. I can, you know blow at a kiss, so that has made a big difference from me in terms of accepting all of the difficult emotions and physical sensations that arrive arise inevitably in any meditation practice. So I said a lot, I hope it was useful. Let me get now to somebody who really knows what she's talking about Ruth King. I guess this week I said a bit about her at the beginning. She is edge
as a reminder along time. Teacher in the insight, meditation tradition, she's written a couple of books on the issue of race, the newest, once called mindful mindful of race shelter, wrote a book about rage which is about powerful emotion that arises for many people in in discussion of race answer, she is gonna. Wrap alot of knowledge on us in in this package. I'm really grateful to her for coming on. So here she is risking great to see you yeah thanks for coming, and thank you. Graduation is on the new book. Thank you. So much so as I warned you in Advance- and we asked this question: how did you get into the meditation game yeah? Well, if it's it's out I'll make this story brief, because it's really rich, I was in China where major say dome in brief visit is that this is a pod cash right. Brevity is not rewarded, ok, good, that's even better! So I am in China
the Beijing women's conference back in the late eighties early nineties. I can't remember- when you were seven years old. I wasn't so but I was well well in an adult, and I I want to that conference and did a try name, I'm generational healing and met a woman when I was there ah who we were both black woman staring up this five story: golden Buddha with tears kind, running down, arise for no apparent reason. She turned to me and she says: do you met it and I said well Kinder and is: where do you live and, of course, on China eyes? I said: well, I live in the Bay area. Only people in the Bay area would say they live in the Bayer area. China, assuming everybody knows where fatty acids, but she said so, do I and so is so as a turn Now she was on the Board of Spirit Rock, and she said I want you to come.
and join me. I want you to be with me. I need you there and I said well he's talk about the very telling Winesburg ruckus speared rag, meditation community and would acre California which is northern California and so and I was living in Berkeley and which is across the bay. and I said you know- I'm just not feeling like I'm up for all this diversity stuff again, I've kind of been there done that she wanted me to join. the Diversity Council there and support the away getting. That was starting to happen there in, but I went to admit meditate ten class with her with her teacher Jack Currency. a lot of Monday night is crowded womb and I fell in love with Jack Goin feel. Basically, he offered a tea In that EU aid, where he started off, saying oh, no,
Golly born. Remember who you are be willing to know for yourself. Don't take my word for it. No for yourself, and there was something about that message that I guy, had been looking for in a spiritual practice that made my heart crack wide open, because I I wanted to know for myself, I didn't want to just. Trust. Somebody blindly and here the good faith message without it being an embodied kind of thumb, spirituality. So they receive then about that. The kind of cracked me open had me relax had me, believing that there was something more I could do to attend to my distress, I was basically just grinning and burying them. You know having positive thoughts, but really struggling on the inside, so Spirit Ragman.
the community, became my son go my community where I practice. damn I've been there every sense. Let's just go into that that the no for yourself martyr there is, I think that is the main one of em, Knowing the buddhist words here, but something around along the lines of for yourself exactly because I think there is one of the biggest reason, one of the reasons why people are attracted to whose minds I'll speak for myself, The lesson is that it isn't somebody telling you hey. You got except my dogma either. We, the boot himself, said this, which was look. I'm gonna make some metaphysical claims. You can't take him or leave em patrie, but just try. Out this meditation thing. If it worked for you, then you can keep doing that's right and you know it SAM from being raised in a Baptist church where church was really where the community lived, you know No, if I saw everybody practising the phrase, but it was worth
the community hung out. It was where you took care of Sarah and her family who had the drug problem or the fathers who got laid off work know there is all the sense of community It wasn't so much about the teachings of the Bible as much as it was about community and by it, and so there was a lot around faith. Believe in God. Put your faith in God, which is nothing wrong with it. The pretty you, a good friend of mine, says the Lord is it is cheap since my Lord and personal Savior, but the Buddha left instructions. I think there was something about the instructions of how to embody. Faith had a no for yourself how to relax and to the experiences moments that can then that the accumulation of moments where you get a taste of potan homeopathic drop of visa freedom and were lease
there really carries you to up to a place of really nor what you're capable of thumb letting go of so that was really powerful for me. Those moments that have accumulated over the years, where there's faith in what I am capable of understanding in my mind, that supports freedom, not freedom as a destination, that freedom is Heaven but freedom each moment. When I can let go of some entrenched strong hole, I my heart and mind that interferes with me sing. Early in opening to two. What's here right now, you mention in your childhood, going to church what words grub. I grew up in South Central LOS Angeles and the heat of the civil rights mom movement in black power, movements of that time, my family was very active in the civil Rights Movement Term premier. maybe in Tbilisi pay the urban league.
and there we all are watched, was involved, counter peripherally in and that term very potent time and so group in South Central LOS Angeles. Some you know in Watts. and there is the church- was big button. Jazz was also big. As well as a civil rights movement. So there was this interest. Being bland of again improvisational jazz was a big part of growing up where we have These jam sessions at home and my mother play the piano. So all the other instruments have come to our house, and I think what I saw was is palpable deep Lou, some even a tuning, creating stream that was running through all of the struggles of civil rights and all of the despair that we saw in communities with struggling families. There was jazz,
there was improvisational jazz. So there was a richness SAM listening a tune in to the collective witches were jazz does, and so I was a beautiful stream that was running as well is really a sense of creativity and connection unless mean and creating something together about you couldn't possibly do by yourself. So so that's a big influence and my life is not really being raised its interim. Let me go back to the golden Buddha for a moment standing in India. Where were you? Can China and learn yeah you're? Looking at a golden Buddha enraging two questions about that? One is. Why are you crying and two when, when your friend said. I need you to join me in the board because
I'm assuming she was saying I'm one of the few, if not yeah african american- and it was only an you said- I don't wanna- do echoed averted I've already. I don't want to do more of this diversity stuff. You have so you can answer those whatever order. Do you want, but I'm here is about both those well I am the the tears I think for both of us she's sense passed away. Ah that's Marleen shewn over Jones, who was a very big in trying to bring more diversity and racial awareness to the buddhist communities, so they saw, you know, bowed to her for that. But I think we were both in tears because of though the I'm just the the majesty of this statue was huge. It was golden a lot of the imagery of the Buddha, is this sent some farm, stillness equanimity, quietude
You know- and I think there's just a hunger and longing for theirs recognition that this is something deeply? This is the first to a large stand that we have, and yet it was so palpable I mean I think for me. I could see myself I've had dreams of sitting and being that in that still persist, your way before I even knew what Buddhism was. So there was a recognition and I think along with it, wasn't offer an offer of something that you get to. You could say you kid, you could be the rain. You know this is touchable testable. That was my experience them and just just being so relieved him away to see that into be touched by something so simple, yet so profound and your reluctance,
one well. My reluctance is my whole career. My professional career was in corporations doing diverse training and leadership, development programmes and coaching leaders you know how to wake up to- power in group, dynamics and diversity. This the skeletal shape of You know power dynamics, it happens inside of corporations e oblivious surround issues of raising our and ten an impact. So I did work for many many years and I was just retiring from it, I was just around that time, leaving entail corporation and Levi Strauss. Where I get quite a bit work and deciding to pursue more of a stillness practice, I wasn't even or what it was at the time? But I knew I was done with this. This group I end of pushing against the system
an effort in trying to get people to wake up that really more? That is interested really around these issues, but I was, I was interested in it, but interested and addressed, in a different way. There had to be in my mind, a way of addressing this kind of internal struggle without comforting, so much without Bernie, now to many people I knew it died, early, diabetes and all these in know these Worrying warrior black people- that I knew and other races as well people of color, primarily who were just eyeing way to young from stressing and region and it just was not gonna be my life. I'd just decided it was not gonna be my life. So when I met Doctor Jones who was invited me to come back in to kind of
addressing some of the institutional things like I've. Been there done that I don't want to to that end doing that anyway, and you know- in another way, continuing with a corporate work by Ankara and continuing to sense sense with it, with the corpse But bringing mindfulness into a corporate work and oh that limited my actions, of course, but that was ok, because the work was really juicy to work with corporate leaders that were really interested in how to integrate their. Though their habits of mine? The way they think they're, conditioning around race and diversity can awaken with up to that right in the middle of corporations, but I was SAM here, so I dont do a lot of corporate work any more, but I do work with a lot of teams and organizations in groups that wanna deepen their relationship with awe raise their racial conditioning. One unpacking examined closely to really see what their
you know thread, is in this tapestry of racial tension that just keeps being repetitive motion, injury and our social system. So would you it would be fair to say that your that the introduction of meditation into this work of diversity revolutionise the work for you. I think it did for me personally. I I I, totally? Thank it was kind of a real deal changed her for me. How so well, I think, mainly because it's that no for yourself peace, I it it, but the other piece for me was really recognising the impact that my actions had on collective well being. I wasn't enough for me to be right and rageful, because I was planting seeds with all of my actions. There was something
and about knowing that might drop from my, energy and effort in pointing things out I'll when it was twanged in hate and righteousness. I was planting more seats of that and there was something disturbing about that. Inside that it images in doing harm just was no longer an option. Me. I got in touch with just how how how much I was hurrying to and in the in the ways that I was so righteous and angry about what I was saying I mean I was a good appointing these things out. I was trained well, and I was right there was a way I was dead right. I was the iranian side, I was down you know when you
you so right above something you know when you so fixated on it then something's always left out of you. What you want. You can have a tight focus like that without shedding something out and because I had open heart surgery at the age of twenty seven from a micro valve programme which I think was related to how I had been living my life up to that point and a lot of stress alot, of rage, alot of anger They were just something about the heart is always been interpol and my life, you know I was your heart, a growing about a cry baby. You know I, I was very sensitive as a child in highly controlled in my family, eight ever so, there's a lot of high control and
you have the silence myself for a number of years lot of violence both inside the family, an outside in the community around us. So we ways I had to silence my a rage in order to survive, and then, when I became of age or an adult, I started raging all over the place. So I just feel like that. Just accelerated a certain color, chemistry inside my heart and mind. Just you just put my heart at risk. It was enlarged m. There needed to be said Jerry, and then there was the recovery, which was my first silent retreat. I didn't, have any energy to defend myself anymore, and there was. There was a profound experience of thumb, gentlemen and softening the thumb.
Healing from all of the things I ve been running from all of the things I was not really willing to phase in Hell. So there is a lot to my upbringing that was also in them mix of knowing I needed to find another way you know like I remember, my great grandmother pacing. When I was seven years old, she died. She paced the lad and worried a lot. She couldn t help you: couldn't protect the black bodies in our family that were going prison in being harass them, so they resist ad. Is fear of fear and worry, but not the skills to be able to work on gently and bring the heart enter. Mix of this- and I remember how hard it was that I couldn't comfort her at the age of seven and wench
he died? I remember saying to myself: you know I'm just not going out like that. You know it was just something about that, as I can't do it that way that you act, I couldn't comfort her and that the real moment and I think she'd be happy to know. I'm doing walking meditation these days instead of hay the floor and worry I really am that worried. Like I used to be that's one of the things about meditation, you can kind of look back on your life and is usually and when you in the practice you can look back as they all I'm not we want that. Like I used to oh, I didn't reenacted that were used to. Sometimes this is retro spectrum. This kind of view of really looking back that helps. You see that you really handling things differently with a bit more clarity with a bit more understanding of your impact with her.
With a deep wisdom about our belonging and that what we do really matters were all in the business of planting seeds and down, and we really need to be more cautious about what they are, so it it's, I'm not so quick to be and righteousness. Then you know, like I used to be didn't you talked about the richest, there are many things I want to ask about from the paragraphs you just which were all very, very interesting violence in the family got too. If you're comfortable keep talk a little about that. Well, you there's violence in the family. You know every year. My mother was a single mom of eight kids. He had been met,
create a number of times and the kids were indifferent set, so the first three kids had a father of a second three added, no father and in the last two had different fathers so like them cause against the smiths which several here when I was in the second said, and then the first six kids were one year part so really tight, close and age, but my oldest sister ended up having to be responsible for raising us when that's really not the job that she wanted, and so we really felt her raft around back. She didn't like that job, so
was very hateful and really angry cause. She didn't get to really have a life. She wasn't that much older than mass and have this saddled responsibility of parenting eyes. She really wasn't that good added she wasn't interested in it and she hated the job and so Leif. We felt that ITALY, especially that the though the second set of kids with a different father, because there was just a struggle between whose dad was love, the Maoist who was it, was complicated, but in my sister
just passed away last year term. There is a lot of healing. That's been done over the years. I doubt I think again, this practice supported me in being able to return to that early imprinting of it was violence, but it was mostly fear that I felt and a real terror of some of us via high control and also terror, of doing something wrong of of of thumb. Upsetting anyway, So it was a really tightly controlled, critical environment. You know the violence was more of them threats
lot of emotional violence. You know some physical violence, but it is just an atmosphere of of terror, of of being afraid being afraid of speaking of farm, doing something wrong. You know, there's there I was raised in that atmosphere, yeah. Why we're just gonna say it? Maybe you just answered it better, be curious to hear about the content of the rage felt suffusing your life. Many years before meditation was it was it about unexamined unexplored compartmentalized rage about the way your childhood went, or was it about the content
racism in America who was at all. Well, I think it's hard to separate the structural racism out of the equation because of of internalized oppression. You know, I think, the lot of the physical violence that african american people especially display is there result of of being so violated through generations of slavery and abuse and seen silence as a form of control. So I think that some of You know some of that gets played but in the family, setting as a way of controlling your children. I don't think it's necessarily conscious, but I so it's hard for me to see how to separate Structural racism internalized oppression from the equation of parenting, especially in families that struggle
with day to day mean some survivors, families that are on me. You know, don't have you know a lot of resources map. We didn't have great educational system, so there is the whole cycle of systemic racism. That puts a lot of pressure. I'm families, and so that gives played out their press gets released and places where you can control them. I think this also happens in families that have a lot of money, but it that's a whole another story, so I do think there's that, but I saw the rage that I felt was. Primarily about this high control inside my family. I think come you know. I wasn't as aware of the racism directly as it came to
yeah. I think there was a lotta overprotection in the family, but you were doing this work and corporations where you were pointing out the racism yeah. How do in work But we're talking about my early are you talking about? my early, I was, I was harking back to the re. Jude said you saw the disutility of the rage you wanted to drop, which it what made meditation? tract of to you- and you said you were- you- were right- the dead right, which I think right, you're, amazing weight of the airport, I laid it yeah, and so I'm just trying to get a sense at that point. The roof king of of right around the time where you're getting introduced into meditation is your late twenties. What was my life thirty eight thirty nine. What what was the content of your rage was Was it all about your childhood or was it about with the races?
You were while I was annex yeah. I think it was a maxim again. These are very gradations here, but I, I you know I was I was so Who did my rage that I gotta high pain, consulting job that afforded me the privilege of pointing it out. You know so much He was well utilised inside these corporations because I will- as good in pointing out what was happening? What was missed, and that is my unfinished business, you know that was underneath it that was really feeding, I wasn't necessarily cleaning my and looking my own wounds around this, but I was wrong a good and pointing out. You know how grew up. You were white boy, you know that's gonna want the job was, and there was a interestingly enough, there was some real listening of of the message I had to say
though I felt very effective and the work I was doin inside of corporations. Despite the rage I had, because I I I was, I was able to steal point out some very obvious messages, but what wasn't happening was me being able to adapt to my own Bernie Internal destruction was happening I and my own approach so yeah. I I think I was some bypassing the needs. I had to heal from being controlled, my my being control but hadn't been addressed, but it became controlling and the work that I was doing so it got projected ah under an oppression, a professional.
Suit wearing, can experience. So what wonder specifically how how you approach it differently now because this isn't still there and by the way worthy of rage here. So how do you? How do you do this work without the ridge? Well,. Well, I I I I think if rage can be sometimes rages, loaded cause it's just dipped in the waters of unfinished business, then, ah, you know we have to look at the character of the rich, because, as energy you know, it is as it is of certain thing, that's running through tat alive and
and real time so is not to be ignored, but I think we need to pay attention to its story. I think the story of rage oftentimes belong to us more than it belongs externally its owed, its usually shame based. You know we need to understand. My first book was on rage by the way, so it's was its been a big teacher in my life, very big teacher in my life, so yeah the rage is still there, but I think we become responsible for the impact. We have another people it through meditation practice. You you, you get ten, the rise to your impact and to ah you get really acquainted with your habits of mine and your heart.
la mean an you learn. I often say how this life is not personal is not permanent is not perfect. You know so when I'm in the heat of the moment. I feel, like a rage moment, a racist moment, a racism moment when I turn on the news each eight or I'm looking at the prison industrial complex than how many dark brown bodies are in it. You know when I see the the star buck sambo two guys in the poor women black women golfing in the yield, black student napping and the police are Carter to fix the problem, because these bodies are so criminalize? I mean I can still get pretty inflamed about it, but I think I'm more sensitive to
how that energy get to used, and- and Billy choosing where it goes. I don't want to waste energy at this time of my life. I it's it's a utility just spew it all over the place and discriminant way, it's very important that I use it to really make a difference. I don't want to talk to people that don't want to listen. You know, I'm not somebody that would be out there on the front lines of a protest. I like to write books and I like to deal with people that are going to be able to hear I have to say and to be able to reflect on it. I'm not somebody that can work This area and crisis situations, for example, my work is, is, is the places we ran before it becomes a crisis so that we can examine how we are responding because it
Russia and, of course he has a ladder right greatest rage out there right now around it. I think we need the fire. It is useful. It gets our attention. What we do next is what's what's important, what most important, though it sought what the new book, my full of rice, you didn't you union, except my title suggestion. I title suggestion your your phrasing. Apology you had used when we had breakfast a couple years ago. You use this term today, cried the new work, and you said it's messy abbess asset that your book, when I listen to me, but I find that I personally, but what I did do Dan is it's the last chapter about Iraq it's on my responded says mindful of raise not fair, yet slackness he had best, but it is messy itself messy. That would be great book. Title But it's the last chapter, not only what I like. That's what I leave people with, because I'm not trying to say I don't want people thinking back.
who's gonna. Be solved in our lifetime. This is a life's work, its deep, the ingrained in this culture, there are moments of of beauty. We can learn to recognise even in the thick of it and there's two stuff. We, after who, with their heart and mine, in order to really turned around, and I think that a big part of that is some white people, especially really recognising that their part of racial group identity, there are in in their members in whiteness, and it hasn't been examined. And tat when that when white people come The table is just good, well meaning individuals. Without being rooted in their history, lineage and how that gets played out on socially politically. Ah, then, I think there's a lad missing in our potential to really graduate to real human and respectful com.
Station zealots impact at all of its own. As I understand it, the I'm gonna try to restate what you're saying you tell me where I go run a foul of accuracy Delano why people come to that people of racial dialogue? Thinking you know having themselves on the on the back a little bit thinking: oh yeah, I'm gonna go white person are participating this, but then they look around the table, everybody else's interracial group and they forget to notice that they too are in a racial group. That's right! That's a big piece of it. You know Oh so alot away people I know- and I do a lot of mindful of race to That's my primary training that I'm doing now. and a lot of white people come in out. You know well intended and one address race, but it's the racial other. It's how do we fix the problem? How to work?
tell me what you need. Tell me what I don't need to understand and I think it's it infuriates people of color to have to tell white people about whiteness this. It is that that they, a race that that there is a dynamic in our social round, that there actually kind of oblivious to the sting car whiteness. So- it is such a crucial part of the equation right now that bad gets claimed. I was Charlottesville! I did this training mindful of race, for the insight meditation community there. They use this training to bridge separation and unity at large, so the invited a number of people from the king. unity to come in and train, gather, learn together around this, this has raised now there were the last meeting my hair was with them, was in preparation of them. Getting ready for this out right kind of rally that took place there and Charlottesville
and I remember after that incident where the woman was killed. The mere said you know these sites Why national system, people who come to our city, they just need to to leave. They need to leave our fear city and I was thinking where in the hell are they going to go where they going to go? Where do you think they go and when white people put them out and disowned them, which is a lot of that, is understandable to some extent that they are somebody's mother, father, sister brother, you know so there is. You know there is a connection to some extent when white people just owned that of charge, people of color and having the pick up the slack they end up having to be the one. That's addressing the issue, starting the movements. You know lean against the complexity of the these very deep proves
so this idea that they need to leave is a piece of You know, they're, not me! That's not my people is is is a piece of advice. I lineage and history, and membrane. That, I think is sir, is price is problematic. When I, when I get people in a group to talk about whiteness together, they look at each other and scratch their hands. What are we gonna talk about living at such an interesting point, because I dont think when I see people marching with tv torches in Charles will. I deplore it obviously, but I'll think of this problem with my people, when to address it, whereas just as in a rough analogy after nine eleven, there is a lot of talk about the onus
being on moderate Muslims to deal with radical Muslims. Violent Muslims could because there was a problem with those people. Eighty really speak, sir. The fact that their wee wee white people don't often see I put myself in this category. I'm just learning about this now, don't really think of ourselves. As a group of people, we can arrange yourselves as like the mainstream, and everybody else is part of a group of people. Here, that's to me as a real, missed opportunity. You know because we're all individuals, suffered and had our lives and our stories in our traumas. Him had to do these dancers with our parents in order to get approval in the stay, love and but were also part of racial group identities, and that that's a collective experience that you know that people,
we have as a race and and then all races are not created equal, there's, a dominant and subordinated group dynamic around race and earned in our country. This is a relative reality that we live in is not ultimately, if it's a relative, some people might know, not know the difference in relative terms. This is a buddhist concept, so buddhist concept. I think it's it's a concept also around you know this idea that we all know that we're not a race, when you know that we're not just simply a race that, with renewed define them. You know just these concepts that we live with his not totally who we are where more than that, but it's the concepts and language and and
identities are ways that we navigate in our day to day life, but we know, especially from our from faith, traditions and spiritual practices, that you know the heart is bigger than all about the mind is big them all. so when I am talking about, is I'm really about that relative data day? Conceptual way that we navigate our relationships are communities? Are politics are and in our lab? Actually you know it's it's it. Some we're making choices were making choices based them. How we ve been condition to believe certain things and fear certain things then naturally come open to certain things, so the elder. It really reality is that you know what you I guess you could use.
The somewhat controversial and also very cliched term of oneness, with the universe where all one, then that you can argue about that, but let us leave it there for second. That would be the ultimate truth. The relative truth is that action You know you are you and you have put your pants on in the morning and you do have a certain pigmentation. And you will be viewed in a certain way and you will view other iron way right. A mature spiritual practice deals with both. That's correct. That's well said: try yeah yeah, I think you're it you sure about that, especially not on this subject, because I really feel like I'm at the beginning of a very deep learning and we're all learning and thus at another reality around this, we're in different places, with the wake a peace around raisin ratio, Harmon injury. You know I was just talking
then centre video, send any New York sense at over contemplative care right. I was doing a top there and a woman of color. I raised a question about you know how do you deal with them? Just the fact that so many of our buddhist institution, thirty, so so, white and so segregated him? How do you work with that? And I get so tired of seeing them yeah. I know, but I said to her. If I said how can may not be that I mean you know you have to look at our conditioning, most institutions, most organizations that were that are organised by white people. Does it does not take into consideration people of color from
start is just not in the consciousness and what happens when there is no examination of racial group, identity or whiteness. Then the same individual, individualistic mindset, I'm a good person, I'm a good. You know I'm a good white person even but is individual, not collective, that same consciousness roles itself into the institution into the organization same lack of conscious, yeah, you and so to me. It's not a matter of whether these institutions are re. You know, have racism, folk have been nod
the issue is. What do you do about that when you do at your privilege? What do you do with this once you wake up to it, and how do you not go back to sleep laddie not just cannot just ride on the privilege and all of the benefits that come with palm. You know just privilege of having power like that. What do you do with the power? Will you do with the privilege? What do you do with the waking up? The guys, like you- come very interested recently in the issue of bias and I'm writing a new book and about all the ways in which we work. find unkind and specifically looking at my own lack of kindness, and I want to look at bias and I'm the get to the question of this is just a long winded way
ask a question, but I meant using my bias and lots levels: racial bias, but also political, ideological bias, and so I've ever really made it my business of late to start listening two podcast on all ends of the political spectrum and he as part of that I've been I've, been listening to the conservatives who argue for reason. I can't fully understand by the council at the beginning of my research, but they argue that white privilege is a myth. I don't agree with that. I think there's a lot of evidence to suggest a white that way Knowledge is real, but what would you say to somebody who can do you know who was arguing that white, which, for example, Jordan Petersen, is very popular guy right now, and I haven't even watched his Youtube speech on this, but that is all about why privilege, not being real bench, appear other similar argument. What is I would
It's a little bit of an unfair question, because I can't reproduce their arguments I don't know I don't have to know their arguments because a real common, you know posture a common thing that white people would say I don't know a lot of people of color, saying, there's no such thing as white privilege, which is a piece of why this is so significant. They would argue, just decided the ice. Their argument is well that's you no kind of a victim mentality. I said her and so for me What I would I I have this arm Rubik. I am I an emerald rescue, this Rubik's q. When I talk about them
people wearing this Rubik you have in your hand. I have it in my hand. Right now. The first pair is around what we talked about a little bit, which is individual and then racial group identity, white people tend to focus at the level of individual. This is also where bias is at the end of visual level. So it we all have biases white people. All people have biases we're all part of racial group identities. Some of us know that some of us- don't some of us by that some of us don't most people of color get that they're part of a racial group identity. Most white people relate to themselves as individuals. This is crucial. The second pair is on dominant and subordinate
group dynamics, races, white people are a dominant raise. This is where privilege lives, it lives on the collective. It doesn't live at the individual level. Most white people, I know, would not described themselves as privilege because we know there is only one percent. I mean it's out its has a lot to do with how you defining what privileges but privilege, white skin privilege is this ability to I acknowledge that you're a race or not in age around race or not- and there is not really a lot of consequence around it, you can flip it off. You can turn at all. This is that that in itself is white privilege, but it's mostly the denial that you're part of a collective that is until that is in a in an dominating role. In this society, so the only way to understand privileges, understand group identity, the route reason that's not understood as we can.
This group identity has not been vetted among why people there has not been a coming together to examine the his story: pervasive inheritances of whiteness that exist as at the collective level me thus the missing piece, so we can hang out at bias. We can hang out at individual opinions. That's all individual is still not the work at the racial group, identity level that still each in a scratch for white people, and I think the question needs to be. Why is it so hard goes there we had. I want people to read the book, so we don't need it. I don't want to get to say everything that's in the book, but can you just talk a little bit about the sort of the basic thesis and structure of of my full of rice? You know it's. It's kinda like this. Rubik that I'm talking about, even though the Rubik. Symbol didn't come up until after I wrote the book, but the first.
part of the book is really the belief. So what we're doing with his book is we're intersecting, mindfulness, meditation and meditation principles rooted in buddhist teachings, but not not all of them were integrating this kind of technology t if you will, with with recognising and be unable to understand racial distress and injury. So the first part of the book really allowing people to really diagnose the issue to diagnose their racial conditioning, and it's really sharing these for these two pairs. First, two pairs on the Rubik of you're standing yourself as an individual understanding yourself as a racial group member and am- and it also is talking about the dynamics of dominating and subordinated racial group, there's a pattern theirs.
Constellations. We can begin to recognise the book, offers six hindrances to racial harmony that way he can began to notice both internally and externally in the world and to make some choices around and the end. So these are very important and no way is of looking at how you have been vision, the round relating to raise both yourself into others. So that's important. That's not so much Buddhists teachings that's teachings more from The work done in and understanding race, racism M power- dynamics within my corporate community work, and then this
in part of the work of the book is really speaking to meditation. Specifically, establishing meditation practice where you can work with the distress that you feel internally and diving into this inquiry of race and racism. Especially your own conditioning, and it offers a daily meditation practice Hata to how how to develop our relationship with being at ease so that you can bear witness to all of the rise and fall of craziness. It happens as we start the pay attention to our mind when we start looking raise the way we think our habits of mine the shame the blame the yield, the the rage? All these things had come up in the mind how the body collapse,
So we're learning how to can be with this. This, whether landscape seasons of internal experience inside the heart body in mine. The learning, how to forgive ourselves were learning about compassion, were learning about I never were learning about rain, recognising allowing investigating and nurturing distress that moves through the heart.
So a lot of instructions on how to just be with the ten chairman hum aversion, and you know that the ways we distract ourselves is in part two of the book witches meditation, which really is the intervention. I talk about racism as a heart disease and its curable is curable through, to a large extent the intervention of mindfulness that supporting a certain inner atmosphere that allows us to respond more wisely to the to the distress in ourselves and in the world ever see clearly, first and to see clearly anti see. Clearly, that's a really good point and then the third part of the book is really speaking to a culture of care. And this is looking at our interdependence. The way we are part of something larger than ourselves
I have a lot of fun in this section, because I have a chapter on how to talk about what disturbs you, which is there. Some really pointed instructions were a good third of the instruction is about turning your attention, inward to deal with your own distress and am, and there is a section on equipment, and not just equanimity that we learn about half of the again that Buddha, but the fire. Laurie golden Buddha, just a posture of sitting
in Spain in your seat with a sense of dignity and awareness and full heartedness. So I'm talking about not just our capacity to do that that we gain some of the fruits from city meditation, but also our there's a social equanimity that weaken concern ourselves with the gifting, the extending of our practice to the communities that we live in and their families there's also. A chapter in that section on our industry as cultural medicine and how, when we are involved in some kind of artistic expression, that natural for us are we really kind of being? We find more alive, nervous and more creativity and more joy and our lives when we have fun tumbled into the territory of creating an offering. I think if we
in the struggle of racial tension, we'd be creating we'd, be dancing more singing, more be more light and our hearts around was possible because I think our energy would be a bit more purified and cleaned to two leaning towards what's possible instead of what's wrong. Finally, let me just ass. You re exercise my privilege as the host of the show us that at a privilege to sit and talk to you what what? What vice, would you give me as a white male? Who has enormous privilege, you know economic privilege, I guess look platform. How? How could somebody with my everything I have been given?
And in the position that I'm in what what do you think somebody like me can do to be part of the solution rather than for the prompt? That's really get question down, I'm taking that her heart, because sometimes the suggestion as I have for people like this, you know it is not always well received. one hopes that I only have an anchor. One hope that I am, let me share a story with a I who am I worked with. It was very senior in a bank and though, when D, I think it was the Florida hurricanes hit the ones just a couple years ago he decided to take a crew on his own. You know he hired a couple: a try
took a crew of people down there to help clear out some communities, because the moulding the environment had gotten so toxic for a lot of people, I ended up right in the heart of a black community. And was in the end with a woman who was a hoarder, and so there was all these papers and things backed up to that. She still couldn't get rid of, even though it was all damaged from the hurricane and so he's counseling her and telling her. And meanwhile the crew is. With her consent, clearing things out and in the middle of that his boss called and said you know you're in violation of a company policy. You need to return the work right away and he said to them when you Who can come down here and see what I'm saying and
do. What I'm doing, then, we can have a conversation, any state and there wasn't any real repercussions from that choice that he made. But I was intrigued with him because he made a choice that was not so much his job, but it was I use of his privilege to take care of something that he saw any organise it and took care to care of it Those are ways that people in positions of inner, Lincoln Bacon pushed the bar authority. I mean that could have been the case where his job would have been respected, really was, and I think he may be new, that to some extent maybe you would have been a risk if he wasn't why, It could very well have been a risk if he wasn't white, but I dont know that I'm, but I'm looking at what he did, I'm looking at what you can do in terms of you know being able to push that bar when people of color can't you know
I also think that there is that there is a collusion dynamic among white people. That includes blind. sameness and silence. I think why people in positions like you're an can break, but you know the collusive dynamics of not speaking about raise, not confronting. grace you know, turning a blind eye. You know you can be the person, that's just not having it. You know, and I so that's another thing you know you can. There I mean I m sure you run into many situations where the the thought arises, and maybe it's not spoken, but it could be, can could be interesting practice to see what it's like to to be different in a sea of white powerful people to raise these issues to work with the egyptian scratch that might be different because there is a wide collective is just not claim
any. But you know what it is when you started doing things that are outside of it. You know- and I think a third thing is too One of the things I really advocating the bulk is is forming racial affinity groups. I mean would it be like if you in one or two other white guys got together and committed to unpacking this thing called whiteness and really understanding it more intimately what it? What is it? What is our conditioning me really keeping the focus inward and how we ve been conditioned to not be members in what is a consequence of that again? I think this is a life's work and is not about fixin asthma.
Jesus about understanding how we ve been tightly condition to stay in our lanes and in that time, question how we got here, the so much as I see it, and thereby the careful bottom, but to say, although the fact that I am being careful says a lot because it alot of fear about talking about this issue. Actually you were, I just finished, shaken a class online class through the Berry Centre for Buddhist study. An organization, I highly recommend the ale r r e bury centre for Buddhist studies. Your name came up a lot in this. It was an online horse on race and the dogma taught by four creature to him than on the show. Seventy Selassie I'm having a temporary Brian sire. You know,
another few Anna Hard Joanna hurrying out- and I was also a teacher and then Emerson happier APP shoes to be named Joanna Harper, but now she's your party, and I found it to be incredibly interesting, the course and where had we did do all these readings and There was one there was one reading on Sunday called white fragility that I had never heard of before, and it was written by white person. They talked about effect a year of your family? Were this? I'm not telling you anything, you don't know what I'm talking to our listeners here. The that white people ought when confronted with the things you ve been talking about, which is that we are a racial group and that we do have privilege. Often we get super
fragile around that we we we we get angry AIR defensive Anna. That struck me is true, but I also got the sense that it puts why people in a double bind, because if I question anything then I'll be in fragile. If I say, if I do the uncomfortable thing of questioning any statement as being made when we start talking about the structures of racism in United States, then well I mean maybe I'm just being defensive. Maybe you don't look at the thing and I fear that at
I may say so. You have the vast majority of people who don't want to talk about this at all in that's that's the bigger problem, but even in the smaller groups, where people are willing to address this stuff. I think there is another issue which is the sometimes we wife you will get so cowed that we turn off our critical thinking and we I think we yeah been here. I don't. I don't know if I'm saying this court but I do you notice a dynamic where o ice Among my fellow white people, I sort of, this mode of just wellmere contrition, which some of which is totally warranted, but but that of its fully thought through on some in some cases and met when he may not thought through
Well, everything is just six. If so, for example, I noticed that when I would question even in paper. There's a seminal paper on white fragility. Basically, they're all these footnotes in it, and it looks like an academic paper, I'm not sure that, just because, as an academic paper that everything there is true, I actually think work for daily. they're having read it. I thought this is mostly spot on, but there was a It's a very like. Is that true love? That's true but I am- I am I allowed in this- So I ask that question here the dynamic I'm trying to get an eye. Then you have real dialogue, give the white people these situations are just try not to get in trouble. That's what I'm getting at exactly This is a really important point that you, bringing up? Let me make, let me say a couple of things. I am familiar with that the Robin the Angelos work she's, the enforcers on my book. I think
he's doin, some really important stuff. Here we don't have to agree with all of us. I think there's a difference trained fragility and vulnerability. I think this this I'm she coined is really trying to get it something very specific about the white Paper, which is that I think the fragility of, the way I understand it is this fragility that happens when you're, not in control. Things are not perfect and yours, you're you're, you're, feeling vulnerable. You know that that these things start happen. So I think she's trying to really nails something that people of color have been talking about a long time but wouldn't have quite called it fragility. We would call it. You know, privilege in a number of things, so she's getting into the whole emotional territory,
and the ways we hide out or can escape the exit doors that why people can take and do take right in the heart of the vulnerability of engagement around it. So that's one piece of it, but a peace. I think the so potent about what you're saying Dan is here's how I would say it if I can't argue from from my experience as a white man with people of color. If I can't talk about what that's for me. If I can disagree without being then seen as labour law or of of now really being a good white ally or not being somebody, this really listening, then what is this said, Why just roll over him and be run over art? Do I get to have a voice? I do I get to screw it up: do I get to learn. If I'm really can I learn without can I learned in the ways that I learn? You know- and I think these are really important things
think a real compliment see. I think, though this is but there's a few steps, the step, the step of white people doing their work together is crucial, because when, when used, but I'm packing the way you're describing them is in this way Oh, I don't see it that way and are I have, buildings. Are I have this point of view when that discussions? towards unravelling, are opening. And there hasn't been work around whiteness. then a lot of the awareness that my go with that end up having to be pointed out, because there is a collective dynamic, thus pervasive in the social realm. That's a piece of that. You swim, and that is that is also a piece of the mix, some one mass Manning
cooperated into the dialogue, the sense of understanding whiteness and how it could be also engaged in the very thought that your having the expression measure, you know when that's not a piece of it, then you speaking as an individual, absent of rudeness and whiteness, and I think that's where, it gets. It can go down here, so it's real importance that this kind of collective peace is engaged him well understood, because otherwise you know it's having to be how it lives is never gonna be perfect again, it's messy at best, but it is going to be recognised and respected when white people start bring your charge, bring your energy but also bring your history, bring your group identity. You know you're, not just some in
visual. With a point of view, you ve been condition and whiteness and invest the peace dismissing I feel and our engagement, but I do think the challenge is important. I think, is a real compliment. One white people you know are from and what they're bringing but they need to be educated and will come in from a compliment. Half Jesus about you, you're standing. This is my experience. I'm done my work over here. On bringing this experience, I don't I don't know if I agree with that, aren't you know whatever it might be, and I dont know what it is but I think, been willing to get in there in the rough of it and have Real dialogue with people of color is is, is not a you know. That's that's that's my hope, but I think there are some work that why people need to do be rally bring to that, rather than either hiding out denying it or
being condescending and pretending outgrew. That's right! That's right! Yeah, yeah! That's really arm patronising ray. I mean that's not what we want. There is a place of deep listening and hearing which is born of the educational p. and you do have to know your buttons and when, when you're getting defensive, because we all have defence patterns in ways that we protect ourselves, we have to no one that playing every people of color. Don't always know, and that's why plain right so is messy. You know about. Why think the peace that we all need to really bring to these discussions as a sense of ourselves as, as is individuals an Azure Rachel group, I guess gather relax, I'm holding that visit of that this is their before we go. Let's do the plugging that I like to do so. Give me a sense, a gig name. Every book you written tell us what your way
for a social media? What your website is give me everything, ok. Well, this is my second book. The first book was he'll enrage women making inner peace possible. This book is mindful of race, transforming racism from the inside out God, a few audio meditation books I want around rage. I have I dvd on cultural competency. That's survey, HU as a download, a bunch of stuff, I have his wristbands mindful of race, and we get em, not there. Yet all on my website I have, which is you, which, through It is our Ruth King that met ok and of the book. Is there that the products are there, recordings? Are there a number of recordings guided meditation, severe resource pages on racial awareness? Is there
guidelines on forming a racial affinity group is their upcoming, retreats and meditation retreats mindful of race retreats lattice there. Their website is a good resource, very grateful to you for coming here and I'm gonna see on the so great. Thank you thank you to your machine. It ok does it for another edition of the ten percent happier podcast. If you liked it, please take a minute to subscribe rate us also. If you wanna suggest topics, you figure should cover our guests that we should bring in hit me up on twitter at Danby. Harris importantly, I want to thank the people to produce this paragraph. Lord Efron just go ahead and the rest of the folk tyranny BC who helped make this possible
We have tons of other broadcasts. You can check them out at ABC, podcast, dot, com, I'll talk to you next Wednesday, there's not a person in America who hasn't been impact it in some way by the corona I was pandemic, but it every community there are pockets of people who were sitting up, every day. This is my my day last day of the cylinder stretch of proteins for one of our time in these or America's essential workers, the people who are keeping moving. I turn into a home school mom and now in a new plants from Ebay, see news you going from damaged and even worse, I she went back to my office inside crying because it's not fair hearing here, making sorry that our community smiled faintly moraine. This is essentially inside the from the urgency by the police cruiser to the czech outline. You hear what this pandemic sounds like the people putting themselves,
No one's way, there's always a risk that I could breathe is home to my kids. Are my husband or my parents? Listen to the essentials inside the curve on Apple podcast revision, podcast him.