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#193: Enough-ness and the Hungry Ghost, Narayan Liebenson

Most kids are not spending their time in solitude exploring the abilities of the mind. In that way, Narayan Liebenson was not like most kids. Fascinated with the mind since a young age, she has led a life studying meditation in different traditions. Her training over the past forty years includes study with meditation masters in the Theravada, Zen, and Tibetan traditions. In 1985, Liebenson co-founded the Cambridge Insight Meditation Center, which describes itself as "an urban refuge and teaching center for all who seek inner peace through the liberating practice of Insight Meditation." She is also the author of the recently released book, "The Magnanimous Heart: Compassion and Love, Loss and Grief, Joy and Liberation." In it, and in our discussion, she describes how to move from the "constant squeeze" of suffering to a direct experience of what she calls "enough-ness." We also discuss how that concept relates to the Buddhist teaching of "Hungry ghosts," creatures with huge stomachs and tiny mouths, who always remain hungry. Plug Zone New Book "The Magnanimous Heart: Compassion and Love, Loss and Grief, Joy and Liberation" https://www.amazon.com/Magnanimous-Heart-Compassion-Grief-Liberation/dp/1614294852 Cambridge Insight Meditation Center: https://cambridgeinsight.org/about/teachers/ To donate to the Cambridge Insight Meditation Center: https://cambridgeinsight.org/generosity/unrestricted-gift-dana/ Ten Percent Happier Meditation – Oren Jay Sofer's Practicing Kindness: https://10percenthappier.app.link/3nu2IRiOiX ***VOICEMAILS*** Have a question for Dan? Leave us a voicemail: 646-883-8326
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
For maybe see Ten percent happier vodka in her figure. There is an ancient buddhist concept known. As the hungry ghost I voiced found this pretty compelled it is, the hungry ghost is a creature with a giant stomach and a tiny little throat whose key Bentley Hungry and can never get enough, sound familiar to you if you're, a human being or, if you're, a human being anything like made this kind of insatiable eighty, this back hum of constant. insufficiency that at least I feel Many others do obviously, because thousands of years ago they can this idea of the hungry ghosts. So this week we are to talk about how many. If not all of us are hungry ghostly. Some of the time, Edward talk about what may be the antidote to this condition, which is the notion of enough this hour
yes, isn't: Ryan Lebanon, since she said really well respected buddhist teacher she's been the guiding teacher at a joint known as the Cambridge insight, meditation Centre in Cambridge Massachusetts, an excellent place she's been the guiding each year there or one the garden teachers there since it opened in nineteen eighty five, she gun training and various meditation traditions for forty five years, and you gotta do called the magnanimous heart. Ok, so a lot of long time losers on the show will know that I have a rather complicated relationship with the word heart and many the other. In my view, a kind of syrup terms that are often invoked when people talk about meditation dry and, as you will hear, as no qualms about using what is sometimes referred to his heart centric language If, like me, you have any kind of aversion or allergy to this kind of stuff, really urge you to fight threat, because neuron is, as you're gonna hear highly trained hard core teacher
who seems to me at least to be incapable of saying anything? Uninteresting I've talked about A lot on the show that I'm kind of doing my best to try and send some of my less helpful diocese and sitting with the teacher like Narayan, is actually pretty useful in this regard What we'll get sooner, I in a second first one lightning, quick item of business. Speaking of heart, centred language, there's a new meditation up on the ten percent happier app. It's called practice. Kindness and from or in so so go check that out and we want to sure that one this week. Accurate, Neuron Levinson aside from Hungary, ghosts and my many Am I too rational issues with the word heart? We're also going to talk about the power of using our whole lives as a meditation practice? Instead of quarantining it to the cushion, we're going to the importance of bringing female voices into the dharma and the difference, between letting b letting go.
and, lastly, weren't to turn the voice mail section of the show this week over Tuna Ryan. To answer a couple of really fantastic questions from you about how to man, dream like states in meditation and how to use the meditative mindset to solve tough questions in life. and just before. We dive in one final note I wanted to note that, especially for the beginning of his chance, you can hear me no Ryan off a few times when she speaking it had it took us, what how to get into the groove of the conversation she's very thoughtful. she talks is sometimes I thought she was finished, saying what you gonna say before she was actually finished. So please know that the Mai interruptions were accidental, and I'm workin on that and luckily, after forty five years of meditation neuron is pretty patient so here we go neuron Levinson nice to meet you. yes nice to meet, you do so How did you get into meditation? Will it really
I was on a continuum for me. I was really interested in how my mind was working when I was quite young- and I was a week later than the rest family. I just going go to sleep and I woke up earlier than anybody else, and I was white interested in what was going on in my mind, and so I started to investigate and explore it, and I ve learned Why, when I was just lying there, on my own watching observed ass. A little girl mind is a little girl exactly yeah. I was brought up Catholic and I also have a father who was jewish, so the jewish part maybe took off the edges of the cathedral.
The system and I was able to enjoy the beauty and the silence and the spaciousness of the churches. That I was then which was really quite wonderful, I'm so grateful for that that I had access. Do these silent on spaces in which I could just be quiet and let the outer silence point to a kind of inner silence, so it really benefited me quite a lot. I wasn't so involved in the beliefs about Catholicism or the mythology but I was quite taken by quite drawn by the beauty of the once. I wonder if he has now, if what, if it is now would have
Is that really resident to any young person now, given that they have a supercomputer in their pocket? I know I know I know I mean you know when I was growing up. You had to get be bored a lot at the time to because there was much going on and that was really beneficial because when you're bored and it's very very close to a depth of silence, that can be accessed? If you allow yourself to be bored, so I don't know you know little kids, these days it some much more of a secular culture than it used to be and John to engage in an enjoy silence wherever you can find it. I would want that fur for little kids. Now it seems like I like there would be a hunger or thirst for that I've heard it said from some will be Controversial meditation, teacher coach, opium trunk error here has his controversial for those who do not always be easy. Drag himself, the death yet and Vienna stir out with his followed
nonetheless created a big, thriving meditation community. Yes, our yes and I have friends of good friends, my horror, followers of his and no longer with us, but he had a practice, apparently called cool boredom, which he actually asked meditate here's to cultivate yard of young makes sense. To me, I mean an end. You don't have to if your meditating you're gonna go through boredom as a stage. It's a phase of practice where you have to. Let yourself be deftly, bored and ask yourself: am I gonna die from this ill hasn't happened yet what it moves you, if you're, if you're willing to stay in their space moves you into something quite profound, were free Where I was going to say is that when I was so rudely talking do I got excited because it is one of these things. Were we so now so programme to avoid I remember when I got my Iphone. I thought I will never be bored yet and
wow. We now have we. While we never like boredom. We, I don't think she's, really like it something we like Yes, yes, were trained for the next to look for the next dopamine hit were always on the hunt. Yes and yes, there sudden bone, cultivating boredom yeah sitting marriages like breaking on it? That's yet, and there you see it's not that bad. As you said, you won't die from that's yet in it not really a cultivating it's more that its veiling, offering you know how it is we allowing it and seeing it as a covering over the natural luminescence of art, ok, I know that there is a lot to what you just think. What do you mean by that? I mean that the Buddha spoke about the heart being free already, the heart or ready is awakened that there is freedom from greed, hatred, andalusian, but its covered over
by our habits and patterns, and so with meditation. We can start to be aware of the habits and the patterns and tat which doesn't serve us or anyone else and then start to. Let them missed a hum begin to dust into the light of awareness, I remember once has Interview John Cabot's, yes, meditation teacher and he was he was getting. This negative with me about language, I was using said MRS Le Pen phrase it. He used kind of off of hand, but it always does decade, a governess I was stuck in my mind. He said I have my own opinions but language which I have put, I idea have a weird hang up about the word. heart. Oh, I don't know what you mean when they say hardware merit of this child of positions and maritime facilities.
I think I'm an actual amount. You mean the physical, yes, you feel. When you say harden you mean mind, I mean yeah, I mean this is worth cheetah right in the teachings. Polly word and it meets heart mind, but I'm really in western thinking. Mine generally means think and heart means something beyond feeling linking will. It includes feelings but It's also beyond feelings when I say a weakened hard on it's, not Even though it sounds like a noun, it's not really a noun. It's it's on limitless awareness. Let's call it that measure of this awareness we kind of got it cut into this quite beautifully, Wait when you said boredom and other habits are, are covering up our natural luminous
art S, natural natural luminosity, if the heart radiance of the heart of what is most important of all of thought, of the sense of of freedom within that, whatever way the conditions are finding those conditions to be workable instead of intimidating or browning in conditions calming or minds calming letting letting thoughts thin out some and that allowing for a kind of space and John and sense of of preliminary contentment, which can then be a springboard into a deep investigation. What is most important to us there is. Why are we here? Why? What is most important to us right? What am I first guess what our first yes on the show was a woman named Lama so more We say
he's in the MID west somewhere. I think it's been a while, since I met her really interesting meditative practitioner in the tibetan tradition and she said that the tibetan definition for enlightenment. The tibetan phraseology around enlightenment, is something like clearing away, okay and bringing forth a beautiful he to be what you're? Yes, yes, Yes, I mean I am like I'd like, even though I am in the Tarawa didn't lineage and feel quite at home. Here. I've like the language from the different lineages, the different Buddhist on lineages, because every way of talking about these things kind kind of opens things up in terms of being able to understand more. Clearly, according to our own experiences, don't meditation we take our life. We take our own experiences, and then we move from their we're not trying to
and send were not trying to get rid of anything, we're not trying to not be human were attempting to use all of it as material Billy for a weakening and one of those elected by the buddhas dyed in the wool sceptic personally here is, he said girl can see for yourself exactly eighty posse. How come in sea come in he for yourself, how things actually are not? Are you think things are or what other people have told you? What actual out or eight years
Here's a court in court, religious leader, saying, don't take what I that's it that's yet, and I think I think those of us who are trying to follow after him on you know or cut in that same vein of don't believe me, but take up the methods take up the practice. Take up the study, usurer life, bring it altogether set. You know, meditate in in a classical wave, using outward bring it altogether and see what happens if you have any trust, her or faith whatsoever in something other than what you have experienced up till now. We are gonna drive dive much more deeply into this. for me, somewhat problematic, word of heart and your her thesis around a magnanimous art we're very deeply that that's a title overdue book, but before we do that, I want to tackle a bit more about your by biography,
We had you in charge earlier than I held you as I do with many of my guess. Can you just take me They are to actually starting to meditate yeah yeah, it's so church and libraries. My parents, you do for whatever the reason drop me off, it, churches and libraries and oftentimes, it seem like them, would forget to pick me up again. but he would be in these situations roaming around. On my own feeling, this vast spaciousness and silence and feeling like I could explore anything that nobody was going to stop me from investigation from looking into things more deeply. As I greatly wanted to do and after that women. Maybe when I was about eleven, I found a book in the library that was about on rebirth and a yoga. and when I read the part about rebirth, I thought. Oh, my god, that explains everything I just
said this. I mean who knows, I'm not saying that I'd know anything about rebirth or other lives it. I don't find that important, but it did open up something bigger Then I had imagined that other people were exploring their psyches as well yeah and then the yoga I started trying to do it and John but a candle and try to concentrate, and then all these No, that's not yoga like body. No, no you're talking about a yogi you'll get a cave exactly exactly so. I started trying to find all these ways to concentrate one way that I found was just to repeat my name over and over and over again, and if I did, it would open out into something beyond my name. You know how little kids are so identified within right. So that was a technique that I found a really on as a way to open out into something for use the net.
the monkey comes the way I see it opens up into something more expensive. we had and because of the identification with the name it would move into a non identification us in doing it over and over again. So I found these kind of Corky Ways an agent anybody talk to seven, these Corky ways of working working with my mind, but I have a lot of fear, you're giving sorry I would keep threatening, ipods thinking we had excited agrees areas so that Nigeria, anyway yeah I promised to stop doing that. He's your given name, Helen or neuron. It's when Helen was my mother's name, so that was my given name nor Ryan. It was given to me by Yogi by John, when I was in my early twenties nineteen, twenty gotcha, yet the name outside my social security card and everything is, it's your official name, yes, but not for the first twenty years
Right, so we were a little girl repealing in your names yourself. It was Helen it, but no, it was John it oh yeah, ok, and so I would prefer Jan Jan Jana can ya Yeah and then would open up into Non GM, somehow the non genius of of from experience you certainly something fear when I was talking yeah, partly why It wanted to look into my and investigate was because I had a lot of the experiences of fear when I was little and isn't like anything was happening It was more fear of some breaking into the house, or you know being murdered in my sleep bore things like and I think carbon fears that that kid's how'd, but they were very strong for me and because I was up later end up earlier. I was alone with the fears of much of the time, so
Part of my interest was in seeing if I could understand, you're on nuff to be free from it site. Investigated in different ways, and so that we saw there was a propelling force. For me. You know in my book I talk about I Duca or unsatisfactory nuisance on suffering as being like a constant squeeze. This was one of my teachers are John Mahabharata, who defined the first noble truth as a constant squeeze feeling. This constancy shells were the first nobles, sorry it it is. This Polly were Duca and it means that things are not quite right sometimes things are, are incredibly wrong, but even when things are good, there's some sense of uneasiness or discomfort, or
knowing that they're not gonna, stay that way that everything is changing. Everything is temporary and then the second noble truth trying to make things per minute, trying to hang on to the temporary trying to push away or hold onto or identify with. Our experiences brings about more on more suffering more pain within the quote heart and then in my book I actually change the young changed. I write this out, but I changed the noble to surround. The third section of the book is about the path itself, how to how to free oneself, and then the four section has to do with with liberation and non grasping and meditative questioning asking the right questions. That might bring us to a new way of proceeding and a new way of understanding, and
really a new way of living and embodying our understanding right. It's not enough to just understand. We have to actually embody and live our understanding as best as we can from moment to moment in all circumstances. So it's not fragmented right. So it's not a fragment. your time. I think we ve launched and rogues you're talking about this term, a constant squeeze the air one of my teachers, early on I practised in a tie, forests, dumb meditations entering North EAST Thailand, with I teach her named, are John Mahabharata, any heavy three pithy definitions for Polly Words, Polly,
the language that the that the teachings were written down in about two hundred to three hundred years after the Buddha died, and this word Duca or the fact this first noble truth. If there is suffering there is on sector fat and satisfactory ness things are oftentimes, not the way we want them to be. Things are not perfect. All of this. He defined this as this sense of of a squeeze that we feel squeezed in life right yeah and he called it a constant squeeze, because sometimes we can forget it when things are going really well, but it always comes back. It always comes back and when we meditate it's so interesting to me, because these days with meditation being so popular, you think you're going to sit down and you're gonna feel better or you're gonna feel.
a more peaceful or calmer or more balance. But what happens is that, yes, you do and you feel the squeeze even more, which is really good news. It doesn't seem like good news- and I think it's good for beginning meditated- to know that, because a shocking, if you dont know that it's normal, you know this right. Yes, is an expression, hurts more suffer less young. So so it's cushion by com, I means or workable, because the calmness cushions thee, the squeeze or the pain and allows it to to be more visible to reveal itself and as it reveals itself, that's the only way that We can't let go of of suffering is if we see what needs to be like if we don't see we're just crunched in a word. walking around unconscious were tents, we're hurting
others, and we don't even know why and we don't even want to whom we are anyway and were not happy ourselves. So we can see this squeeze an experienced. This squeeze and be brave enough on. You know, as long as we have enough loving kindness and compassion as our allies because we want want going there alone, but with compassion and aunt em, loving kindness, we can gently lovingly with friendliness embrace the squeeze Greece- the squeeze embraced embrace the squeeze almost redundancy, the letter let the squeeze start to uncoil itself. Rather than see, using more, but that's the queen. just gonna get a cuz. You then you can. Let it go young lady go, isn't commonly used phrase young and meditative circles. I now but it can seem mister. I too,
the uninitiated because you remain okay. So now, sitting on the cushion calmer than some light ancient pains anxiety. Yes, yes, some up here, you mean go. What is that? Actually, I think what people mean is let it be. There is no doubt about that night. Do we trust that in my book, because letting you go, seems like we have all this agency, I M gonna let go and we don't we don't. We have to see enough for what is ripping us to let go of itself, so it is much more a matter of letting be rather than let a gulf letting go feels like its pushing what we like away, letting bees friendliness bowing down to embracing extending the hand of friendship to so that we love it up, and then it let's go with us.
That's so counter intuitive. I don't want to know my ancient anger at I know, but the only thing that works- you hatred apply to to hatred dozen and bring about anything more than hatred. I'm its practical, only loving kindness is gonna help brought to anything. It's the only thing, that's gonna, but again you know he Pacifica tested out, find out for yourself whether richer and that's I think some of the courage has to come in that we have to develop a kind of courage that were willing or desperately off. That's! Ok to me. That's all! Right, too! That's fine motivation to be desperate enough to go in a counter intuitive direction. So was it desperation for you that finally put brought you to the cushion well after the x?
various as a child and then, after these yoga experience is a little bit of a gap for you: no drug sex and rock and roll and then moving into a more contemplative on life has a kinda Lenny Yogi. I got involved with. With thy teacher name Dumb Yogi, oh boy, forgetting his name yogi by John. You you'll keep us yeah, and so I did that for a few years and I was working in a restaurant, I was the waffle maker in arrest, her uncle the Golden Temple in Harvard Square and every everybody from all spiritual traditions in the Cambridge area, which was quite alive, wit, spiritual teachings at a time when was the seventies yeah yeah exactly with the seventies. Yes, many teachers coming into town and offering what they had to offer
and then leaving town and all of this stuff for waffles before they start oftentimes who suffer waffles. Yes, so I get to meet them. So. I got to meet some Buddhists at that time as well, and I was drawn to what I was being to the kinds of conversations that the different Buddhists for Having- and I am I bumped into someone that maybe you're familiar with Larry Rosenberg yeah he's a colleague is eighty six right now still teaching a bit. I wants to die in the south, which are responsible for so I want to teach as long as he can
legendary meditation teacher Yonder of Cambridge incitement. Yes, yes right! Yes, the we we met by mistake, I'm mistook him for someone else and we started a conversation and he had just come back from a three month retreat at AMOS incite meditations, I was so taken by this idea that one who did not have to ordain. You didn't have to become a monk or non which have never been interested in that you could live a deeply contemplative life. I in the midst of your ordinary Domestic life is so he was. He was modeling that for me that he was just an ordinary guy and he had just come back from a three month, retreat so sign me No, I was just so taken and drawn by that and then shortly after the
I did said my first three month retreat at. I am us and then, when larry- and I started this enter. We use a lot here I co founder. Does I shall send you, listen under this heading off on yesterday. My father so are ideal. When we began the centre was to have a place where people didn't go on these long retreats and then come back completely late, diskin populating. How do I live? How? How am I with my partner? How can I be with my kids? How can I be in my job in contemplative template of way, rather than just getting completely caught up again right, because you know what it's like to be on a retreat into the entry, sometimes can be a bit on the bumpy side, more familiar with what it's like to be cut a completely got up. If I see you again
so that this centre is for those who don't gone retreats and are just completely corridor as well: yeah legged for both exactly media sea of content, I should immediacy of freedom like not like practice years and years and years, and then you get somewhere but right now, just to amplify, just a word. You use their yeah freedom. Yes, I can add a little grandiose freedom. You know we're gonna need You know damn well yet concern not only lawyer slightly political, but also yeah, yeah, spiritual sense. Now little grandiose, her overboard But when you say freedom, it really is going back to letting it be. Doubtfully is totally ordinary. You know it's not at all on anything special, it's not special, its recognising on or or discontent, and then it's turning toward said in a kind and sustained way so that we can find our way through it.
Into reader spaciousness. If you want to use the word spaciousness instead of inner freedom, but I'm here, seeing the word inner freedom, incentives, big word enlightenment- of using the word inner freedom or weakening, and this is what is possible force as were conversing right now, to understand things differently, both of us as well as we're talking to understand things differently than we had and I did at the possibility I just save in terms of that possibility. Ideas, Asia, not being act around by your ego in your emotions, sure that's fine and you reactions right being able to pause and recognise on being the body be aware of. What's going, on in your body and being aware of how your mind is operating now having to say everything, you're thinking not have to believe everything you are thinking
being aware of thinking is thinking in not being as fascinated an enchanted with one's own thoughts botz. Instead, you can actually become fascinated with the process of thinking ass might be under restructure rather than the little absolutely and you can also be fascinated with that that affection that begins to bubble up within what I would just wanna call the heart rate. Now that that sense of of well being that sense of of being happy when other people are happy that sense of one to alleviate suffering where ever you find it and so create it would suit and adjust begins to pop up, naturally, because they are true nature, it's not something that were creating or concocting. We are cultivating it, but it's already there in seat like form bringing forth
arranging. Fourth bringing forthwith already. I do so that such a delight in a win win that begins to happen then, and then we see there's another way, another way to live rather than cut throat, tour uncompetitive or comparing or any room for all of us? I want to be clear, just like John Cabotage in I may have my opinions, but I dont month, militaristic about it. You should not put quote around heart: you should just go for. Ok, heart can enter into a tune to you. Get Don T do better unequal creamy we're talking. About those so resident for me, so mysterious this, KIA in Buddhism, and I think other spiritual traditions, but Buddhism, the one I know the most that are fun.
mention. Our fundamental nature area is loving. Yes, I know it's a leap of faith, yet and you and I had a guest on recently, like I assume you know, Helen Talk of the yes founder of tried every met her, but I have a lot of respect for her guesses she's done great work and she, What region wrote a book? A co wrote a book. I think she probably wrote it but is based on the x Sperience is, of a famous monk name, injure impish. I just tat in interview conversation with him. A public conversation on Friday with me linger ricochet, he's adorable. We had a wonderful time in the book is key in love with the world. Yes, and it's about many things, the one of the things is that he had a near death variance end and, as is attachments falling away as his body was the compensating. He really big got in touch with the idea that all that's left as the stuff get stripped away is love and he was
in love with the world and held, and I had an interesting conversation that I'm gonna ask you. Some of the same questions see what you come up with an like this. You said it before it's a leap of faith committees, there any real evidence that for sure, if you Strip away, all the habitual, patterns in stimuli. What's left here is love. You know when I was growing up there was this idea of original sin, and that not serve the sense. Of original sin of my original sin and everybody else's original sin did not serve me and when I, when I open to this path- and I heard this idea- it was completely topsy turvy, but there was a sense for me all these things are intuitive The sense for me of ah it was this Things are being eleven an and having this Mine blowing idea about life being much bigger than I had been told
So is the same kind of thing was like Topsy turvy o. This actually makes our sense to me. I don't know totally turn up. It makes more intuitive sends me and it makes more intuitive sense, because if we really quiet- and if we look back on our life, all of us- I think- have had glimpses every so often of this, that we dismiss that we cover over, that we just move on that. We just look at her Iphone instead of appreciating and sitting with than say. Ah maybe this is what the Buddha was speaking about, so I dont think this is boring, I do think that an ant retreat, sometimes or even forget about retreats just daily sitting. It has a way of reconnecting us to the sense of fun of inner inner peace in her goodness intrinsic peacefulness.
and the methods you know the techniques and methods of the practice, their waste train ourselves to be able to access it. And then you have to help when I call it courage. You have to have some degree of trust in where you're going or worse. We will thing about desperation, right or desperation, but something that makes you willing to at least look into different way, use the methods and techniques deceit. Does it access right and then you, you understood, a little bit, and it really makes you want to continue, and then you continue than you have. Your own experience is not. Would somebody else's telling you because it's interesting with Russia, he obviously grew up in a buddhist family and everybody was telling him yes, this is the way it is yes, yes, yes, I'm intrinsic peace
in all this, but for him to actually know it, he had to go through what he went through. And then he knew it for himself with with complete confidence, and that is what all of us to do. Each of us in our own way. I don't think it has to be what he did It was in her own way in our lives as they are developing complete confidence there, Difference between having intrinsic com and clarity and intrinsic, maybe there is an indifference button. it seems all different. My unenlightened mind. You in the preceding paragraphs we're talking about eating intertwined way between intrinsic. Loving yeah, yeah, yeah and intrinsic sort of calm and clarity. Yeah here, I'm just using words just using words, I think
It's a point to oh, what does not have words and we have to use or dummy teacher musing words. All the time words are wonderful, but its pointing to the worthless is pointing to the non verbal has pointed to the non conceptual sorry to be careful, and we can use words up to a point. Then we drop off the words drop away and we have to trust that dropping away. And that silence and net love. That is there. In the midst of the silence, I say a few words and see what you think of him. Sure I don't know it's gonna come up. Ok, yeah, yeah! I've been thinking of you even talking about words, so my job is actually to be a little bit personality about words, buddhist sir. Very personnel are very you no precise in her life. Which can be right and proper precise in their language because you're describing
very subtle? Yes, concepts, I'm precise or picky for different reasons. May but I see my job on the plea, Primarily as Europe, ray languages. Some of these concepts to make him attractive to skeptical. What I see as where I get weird around heart? Yes, because yeah, don't actually know what exactly it is referring to get a little anatomical about it. Oh and re it's a little syrupy for, I think some pop relations yeah myself, included yeah, not so much. Now, I'm a little bit pretending now, but definitely the premeditation me would like heart. What is it hi. It would seem a little we gooey. Yes, yes, yes, and yet this is where a minimal things around to what you were just talking about. Eighty one,
The failures of my first book in my initial- and there are many failures, but one of the failures. insufficient sees in my You shall approach to talking about meditation in my initial approach to meditating itself, is that I was really attracted to the calm and clarity aspect, which is ok. Now a lot of it. I can see my mind and see or clearly, oh yes, this experience, this emotion is arising, anger or whatever, and I don't have to be owned by yes, but there's another big peace that you're talking about in a very robust way, which is this innate friendly. Yes or loving nature, which, of course only the interest I'm with the calm and clarity in a way that creates a virtuous cycle. Exactly that's beautiful virtuous cycle is a beautiful way to put it. I love that, I'm really starting to think about. How can I aids orders for myself cause I'm writing a book about kindness now
and I E. How can I talk about it and I will say that I went on a low, kindness, meditation retreat? Ok, couple months ago, with a great teacher named spring wash, who I really love and it was a one on one retreat, I went to mean just me in her oh yeah sprinkle. Oh whether we think there are two other people there. One was cooking and the third and fourth was filming, get four. Where are you it in the papers. I am amp and writing about it. Ok though, she agreed to do it here, because she's very patient person putting up with a very tough yogi, and I started to get the sense that call. Would you want heart, some intellectual The EU integration got what everyone would have you want to call it yes, but there's there's a we may not know for sure that are funded. Nature is loving yacht, but my intuition is closely aligned
yours for the following reason:. I do know that were wired to seek pleasure. Yes, it feels that when you're acting out of the heart for lack of a but our word, if you'd better, when you're being friendly, carrying compassionate yet it does when you're being aggressive, dismissive, he has respectful, etc hence its ten. Yes, when you're being disrespectful and harsh and its relaxed an enjoyable. When we're connect- and I mean just the difference between tween disconnection and can it's the difference between thinking that we are all separate beings walking around each of us trying to satisfy our own needs versus in interconnectedness where it just like like were separate but in reality were sharing,
We weren't you and I right now of lot of sharing is happening on a level that we can not be aware of order. That is not visible to the naked eye. Let's just say I know, scientists would would agree with me on that, but the Buddhist the Buddha got it before before the scientists got there in terms of the interconnectedness of us all. So of course, it's gonna feel better to be a loving and kind and unconnected then disconnected and harsh, an unkind By the way I love the title of your book because it's so humble ten percent, not even fifty, is beautiful title. Thank you. Yeah yeah. Every travel figure out the title for the next book.
Can I also say that on in terms of your moving into this new dimension of of entertaining what you're talking about in terms of heart or got intuition or love on when I was younger, is a younger teacher and didn't have this much confidence as I have now. I would ve away from the word heart trying to fit into the kind of kind of them the suitors in a certain way, but ass we grow as yokels as practitioners. We have to be honest and we have to be open and what we are all offering, whether were teachers or practitioners or offering ourselves or offering our lives and so my language is just gotten in more in tune with what I actually now, rather than trying to fit into a model which really was more male teachers, when I first became and there's up there's a
feminine there's, another voice that is coming out differently now and John. It's one reason. I wrote my book, I felt that there needs to be more more on feminine voices in in the normal world. People asked about that and I felt like I need to do my part. Young men are less likely, although no certainly there are some that are coming to my right now, but there may be per made less likely to use language like heart. Although both Jack Cornfield in Joseph ghosting, two prominent male buddhist teachers have written books with the word heart in title, Yes, yes, and I'm not trying to make this use distinction because, of course the male psyche is
equally mugging, there's not no difference in that way, but but the experiences and life or different. That's that's different to grow up on differently. It helps to help the voice in the greater dormer discourse, I feel what do you think it is that mail voices seem to have dominated the meditation Hush- Dormer World Desgas, mail, seemed to dominate everything. I just think, I think, is changing I think, is changing quite rapidly actually, because when I first began as a teacher, there weren't many women teachers and now there are many. So I think it's just the way things have been. Things are changing now, but it's the way things have been in terms of Buddhism, Bianca, patriarchal religion like every other who does struggle the sexes maybe allow women in the ranks
First of all of you know- and you can say this about anything right, but first vote words were not written down until two hundred to three hundred years. After that's all, he's my wriggle room here. I can't I can't accept him as enlightened, which I completely believe in and think that there were sexism to which isn't it doesn't doesn't work. It doesn't intuitively doesn't make sense to me that you would leave a huge group of beings out makes no sense, so I think it was that he was trying his best in a world in which any moving in the direction of women being seen as equal to tat. Man was really hard and I felt that he did his best in the time period that he was a wife per according to the scriptures which again were written down hundreds of years after the man himself died. Yet the store
briefly if memory serves is that he was gonna cajoled by a family member. Into or gaining women get on. Yes, he had all these months and then he did built a pretty large cadre of them, but the other storage goal. Historically, they were kind of second class citizens than in some Buddhists community Still women earn, my goodness, that's for sure, and what iced I you have a problem. Understanding now is that there is a thriving community of monks and steel in terrible imbues. Do some woman can't be ordained I dont understand that that has to change I dont interest. And how that has any conscience to it. You can rely on the suit us to see the Buddhist said this the Buddhist at that, but here we are now in in modern life, and I too, the two I have never wanted to be a non. I've never wanted to be ordained, but it has an impact on lay women as well
I found this out. It was so shocking to me as a young woman, and not that I wanted to go there, not that I wanted to ordained, but it still had an impact on my psyche of all. What's what's up with this once what's happening here, and I still can't say that I understand, and I do know it will change it. Just gonna, take time or ten percent happier after this better, offers licensed professional councillors specialised in a wide array of issues like depression, anxiety and grief, connect with your profession, counselor and a safe private online environment. It's a truly affordable option and listeners can get ten percent off your first month by going to better help dot com, slash happier fill out a questionnaire to help them assess your needs and get matched with the counselor you'll love so
You mention mentioned your book: let's get into that you could you titled it magnanimous heart? Yes, what Well, it's based on something that dog who was Jeanne centuries, then Master said Anne. He speaks about the men. Knit magnanimous heart he says, magnanimous heart is like a mountain, stable and impartial. simplifying the ocean is tolerant and views everything from the broadest perspective. So it's a heart of generosity. It's a heart of limitless spaciousness, it's a heart of vulnerability, I'm using my own words. Now not your guns, whether he would totally frivolous, but it's a heart that is poorest- that allows everything to come in all
experiences to come in and also allows them to leave without resistance. So, like us, being door and the door is open. You read all of life in you also let it be and embraced it and find a way to befriend. Whatever experience is happening and then, if leaves on its own unique, accumulating experiences things don't build up within you? Don't lists? Don't you know things from? past that you have to correct or change or or fix, you're, not treating yourself like an object that needs to be fixed. There's this immense sore vast way of viewing yourself in everyone and John this world. sensing yourself as as nature, rather than separate from nature,
so magnanimous hard room for everything and learning learning from everything that happens rather than thinking that this is my practice. But this is not my practice. Everything is my practice. Everything that happens is something that can be understood in from definitely an integrated. I can imagine two responses to this one be that sounds awesome. I wish I had this spaciousness com generosity, loving capacity available to me, but you're gonna have to give me massive hit of cannabis or value your how'd you get here, talking about- and I can imagine another reaction of- I don't want to let the early and in that way the world is, is cruel, land has already, have shown me. Whoever this Fictitious person is, I'm conjuring a lot of cruelty, and so I am unwilling to cultivate the poorest near that you describe. Yes,
Well, I want to. I want to just speak about on Eddie, have a son who died in ashwoods, at the age of twenty nine should never choice. You know, because of the time in which he was living and because she was jewish, she didn't have a choice and on she wrote this shared a very powerful practice. I don't, I don't know all the details of the practice, but she had a powerful practice, some of which include the writings polluted the writings of real k, which, as you might know, is always about turning towards the difficult and befriending the seemingly negative forces. So this is what she yes you're reading out of your book. I am yet. if you don't understand, while you're here and she means concentration camp that all out
Experiences are like a passing show as nothing beside the great splendour inside us. Then things can look very bleak you're. Indeed she's talking about magnanimous heart, this great splendour that she's speaking about this Magnon of his heart and she was able to access it and no it in the worst possible situations. I find this variants firing you, I find it inspiring. What's the mechanism by which we can know what I do think that the buddhas methods and techniques are so powerful and so potent and you know that they are yourself right, so so employing the methods and techniques, as well as studying the principles of the practice, so we're not just method oriented, and it's not prescriptive, but we have this this. Why
aid view. This vast perspective, where were learning about the principles and the kind of the concepts of the buddhist teachings, I think, are real. It is really important to understand ethics, to understand the importance of studying the mind to understand the on the essential nature of and compassion, the noble eightfold path is essential to learn about study and then the third component is living our life and using all experiences in our lives as practised itself. So I think those those three compose. Hence our or the crucial once in terms of knowing magnanimous heart with in yourself, so it's not just in rumour or a nice idea or the resultant
the aforementioned pound of volume. Will yes, yes, and in so much reliance on drugs these days, yeah so many different with little kids reliant on drugs. So so, two to find a way to shift out of that with great care, with the understanding, compassion, the are reliant on drugs because of so much suffering, but that it's not it's not the only way. Do you think, after all, these years of practice, on your end that your heart is truly magnanimous? Sir, do you allow all experiences to come and go through folding doors. I I guess they would be a foundation there of trust. I have a lot of trust at this point. I have a lot of of confidence
in the path of practice. That is seen me through immense ups and downs in my wife's I've heard of I've had quite a rich life, I would say, and very diverse life and the practice in the dormer have held me up every time. Never never let me down ever since I began to practice so so I do have have that kind of trust, but not you we may have a bad day. Words, not working as well it never a day. Never is everyday yeah. It's it's a moment right and then it might be another moment it. But it's it's not like a day right. The concept of a day you you talk in the book about enduring not that long ago, both the death of your father and divorce. Yes,
for six years ago, now, yeah, maybe six years, and when you say to practice, has let you down. It was I it was like. I almost like a testing. You know that here this immensity of grief and I kind of bring it on you know the sense of bring it on I've been practicing for this length of time. I do have a great deal of trust, but here I am being challenged me. It was almost like, like gum ricochet, some near death experience everybody's got there near death experience and for me for me. Perhaps was along those lines of live near death because there were so there were so much that was going on and they were so much grief and practice practice practice through it. Because of the trust in my previous practice. Experiences on it allowed something deeper to begin to emerge in something even more
trustworthy to happen in the years since, but take us, I guess it having to go through. It would take us your mind, then so you say practice practice practice he would sit. The grief would well up and at what would you do Yes, this the sitting practice was white or refuge and some yeah and it isn't for every born. I do know that, because of so many years of being with practitioners and teachers and in the german community that it isn't for everyone, but from either sitting practice has always been a very real refuge so I'm it's almost like. I just get into the posture and on the quiet, and incense. Sometimes they say the posture is enlightenment itself, and I've always had had that kind of sense of just just get into the posture. Just be quiet, don't be looking around don't be trying to.
Change anything or fix anything just day completely still in quiet within yourself and then it'll or take care of itself, so in this, my basic practice is not doing anything and what you mean by that I mean just sitting and letting everything be there. That is already there anyway, so you don't in order on the breath, not not really. No, I mean that he's always there right as long as I'm alive. There is breath, I can count on the birth being there, but I don't on every so often I might use use the breathing as a touchstone, but most of the time breath is there, just as a nice help and as justa signalling that life is still happening. Whatever else is going on, life is happening sense of the body just sitting and then letting the mind do what
Everyone wants to do, but not getting involved not getting, but I want to be clear causes moralizers might be thinking. Ok, what you describing says totally impossible, because my sat without China, only on the Brown yeah we're using a noting practice to note if you're himself sure I would be off. You know cooking Vienna planning. I'm sure whatever is yes, you do for a long time. You have a base of concentration. I think it's important a point that I agree with you very much because I wouldn't teach in this way I teach having a touchstone I teach on having an anchor or the breach of the breathing or sound or the entire body just sitting and then gradually expanding to whatever is happening? So, yes, it's developmental
yields developmental, is just important to recognise that it can develop right that this is where throwing herself into the practice in sustaining it over time, so that its wife and not just something you do from time to time. Matters really matters in terms of greeting Thee enormous Joyce and sorrows of life in a way that is meaningful, that's good a challenge, a challenging at a pause in a positive sense, challenging statement, fur. I'm guessing now is not in the minds of all the people who is the I think you're, some listeners, who are you just try it at this point. Giving their toes and or ignoring or feeling very proud. I think justifiably for a heart, maintaining a five minute a most day practice, but our saying Neuro is the whole of life.
Yes, but I'm also nothing. No, no! No I'm seeing five minutes is great. Hey I'm right yes or no buts anything and five minutes out of a day, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, and not to limit yourself, not to think that its more than what it is either? You know to recognise that this is a vast world of dogma that it's it's so rich these days in terms of what one can partaken and work and who you can. known from, and all of that extraordinary in so many contemporary dorm of books that translate the teachings in ways that are more contemporary. So you know it's a it's it's so rich right now. I would just encourage those who are happy with the five minutes to be happy with. Those
and feel good about it and and done in a sustained those five minutes, but just know that there is a much bigger world that tum that one can find one's way into his world as well, not to yourself, it's really about that. It's not about good, bowed or good yogi get on like bad dog. You know it's not like that. Or comparing yourself to any one else, it's recognising what is illegal and the significance of being life right now is something so precious. I had prepared a list of questions. I doubt I'm gonna get all them cause, I'm to use the term mindful of you time, and I want to get to some listener questions. Usually I take the questions, but when there's a great teacher here, electoral alone, to let the teacher do it, but there's one question from my listen when I asked before we bring in the voice males the you in,
both the name earlier of this rate. I teach named John Mahabharata yeah, that's the unofficial, John, given to great tie teachers. John Mahabharata and you you have used the phrase called that he used, which is constant squeeze life As such, the squeeze yes there's another phrase that you invoke of now that I wanted to get you to talk about yeah enough and exactly it's so so it's really brilliant. You know his his definition of Duca. This word that means unsatisfactory nests. Things not being the way we want them to be sometimes from moment to moment is the sense of a constant squeeze, and then he also defined the word Nirvana or liberation, or a weakening
or the weakened heart as the sense that there is enough the sense of nothingness, nothing lacking, because we can go to our life feeling- and we do go through our life feeling like this, never enough people can. The huge amount of money. It's not enough. People can help me beautiful relationships, it's not enough, and this then southern nothingness can only come within one cell and then we can. We can enjoy our lives, whether we have a lot of little, but we always feel this sense of enoughness but in ourselves, and then, if you feel enough, you also have something to share, and then you have the the joy of them being able to share in without feeling in the poverty around sharing.
And if somebody else's joyful there's not enough for me, but actually when you know it within yourself, it's it's easy. It was easy to share its fun to share. I want I don't wanna put in a position of having to be like bad dog with me, but in a bad joke bad Doug, but I will just say that I find it very compelling this cut a concept of enough now. I've had gleam Is it ok on Retreat Europe and I can feel it in the little moments evacuated many Emma that that come up for me a day to day life, but a lot of my still, even though been meditating farewell is insufficiency competition, Yeah yeah. Does that make me a bad Doug? You are never abandon, but no, you can't be a bad doc. It's it's! What a meditative thinks about themselves. Mature point of you no one either a good dog or about we're just practitioners doing our best.
Right on. Let me just read you a tiny bit of those young hurricane, because you didn't really when we are not in touch with enough this, we are like Hungary, ghosts in just cosmetology the concept of a hungry ghost, implies a hunger that cannot be satisfied a first that cannot be quenched. That's what you're talking about really yeah the image the hungry ghost, is of a being with a very large belly and a tiny mouth, so either No a person with hungry ghosts. Mind is trying to nourish themselves. They can never eat quite enough to feel full. That's a really important sentence right, trying to feed oneself, but never feeling for the hunger or third, cannot be quenched because they are looking in the wrong place. Precision situation: the impoverishment is inner rather than outer
what a hungry goose needs is nourishment for the heart rather than food for the body. Not only do we think we do not have enough. We also think we You never do enough, instead of giving a whole ordered attentiveness, do what we are doing now. We often act half heartedly, reserving our full attention for an imaginary moment that may never come when we lose ourselves in efforts to get something done? We so lose a sense of awe and mystery. We find top lost in intensity. Instead of being appreciative of the ordinary, in the awareness of enough. How could there be anything other than a richness of gratitude and appreciation. I love that I just find myself in my own experience hearing between the two right right, so you wanted to nourish the moments when you do have that openness to unhealthiness.
Those are the moments that you don't want to cling or grass bond to, because then you know, then it moves into something to personal. I am enough. I have enough something to sell, entered right, but when you have those those moments to appreciate them and to be grateful for them oriented towards having more of those moments, because in a way your practising a novice in whatever we practise the fruit of that practice is gonna, be more of a practising so few practice intensity. The fruit is gonna, be more intensity scrapped. His anger, more anger me just is just lawful right, so few practice enough this, then there will be more moments. Yes, that was great before I let you go. Can we take some questions? Samson listeners? We have been doing this interview without headsets, but now our putting them,
and so that we can listen to some questions for again, Cathy from Philadelphia. I've been murdered for a couple months, and I just heard recently listened to the podcast and I love it is been really helpful in growing my meditation practice, I met a keeper about ten minutes every day and I feel, like I've, been improving a little bed on my technique, but something that started happening in the past couple weeks. When I met a kid, is I feel like I almost start too. Dreams. During my meditation I am familiar with the noting technique. I use that when I have kind of way thoughts which happens pretty often but the scene,
kind of new to me, I'm not really thinking about anything real. I just start to have, like my imagination goes wild, and I have these weird dreamed almost lucid stream, because I feel like I'm in them and I try to keep pulling myself out and my my imaginations of always goes right back q dreams and bake situation, bad, I'm imagining myself, then I'm just wondering if this is normal at all, and if you have any in Faye on how or I can kind of cut down on the dreams that I'm having while I meditating so that I can be a little bit more present in real life and not in my dream. Thank you so much. I am so glad that our producers wisely said
that question, for you have no not at the hearing again. So I think it's very good. I think that what's Prob we happening is a greater degree of relaxation is entering in and with that relaxation, more thinking, she's becoming more aware of the thing King that has always been happening that she has not been aware of. She speak right directly to her or Joe began, speaks about the ok you're high so on yeah. So I think I think more easily relaxation has begun to enter in and to not reject that you don't have to follow with you. to let awareness kind of pop you out of it, but when you ve, so what I mean by that is when you
feel yourself drawn to it like moth to the flame kind of feeling see if you can simply be aware of the feeling tone of wanting to go back into it. But that's all you need to be concerned about the fact that its occurring, I think, simply indicates that there is a greater degree, of letting be happening, and so you're more aware than you were before and now you're rejecting it. You know why I shouldn't be I'm not doing this correctly, but its natural it there's a. There are different points and the practice where you are doing it, either correctly or incorrectly. It is doing you. The practice is working on you and that's where we have to let go of control and that's really a huge insight is
the letting go of control so much peace when we let go of control that we never had to begin with. I think that's what's going on for you in this some experience at your having is that helpful yeah I received from me, I feel it I'm slipping into a dream, but it only just means, unfortunately, yes, but even that falling asleep if it's happening within the context of the sitting, it's a little bit different. just ordinary falling asleep. You can trust that, to everybody thinks that sleeping because we talk about wakefulness so much that I'm sleeping his dislike the worst thing that can happen because its inter opposition seemingly from wakefulness, but there's a lot one can learn from lethargy and sleepiness and not having enough energy as well. If you can trust yourself, too, we have a little bit of attentiveness on the sleepiness. I mean be awake enough so that you're not complete
the under with it. What can you know that it's happening? Well, you can learn more about the fact that we don't like it. The pushing it away is actually exhausting and makes you more fatigued. We can learn about a deeper level of wakefulness actually, because if you can stay with its stay with its day with it and again just a little bit of of attentiveness not like I'm supposed to be completely attempted, but just to know what's happening, know what's happening, know what's happening if you can be really patient in that way on, sometimes you pop out of it into a deeper level of wakefulness than you had ever known before in your life. Yes, that attractions to come. I have sometimes wrestled with you. I try to get in an hour of sitting today, due to with I got less ambitious recently and I my rule is share in Salzburg. Ashley
this. I just do it in whatever intervals I can, throughout the day I see and are trying to attract yet a little bit yeah like ten minutes or yeah yeah well, hopefully longer but minutes, that's what's available and I'll track it on my phone register, my head right or my watch never and sometimes I'll, be on a plane or anywhere and I'll, just like straight up, falsely like fine that might might torsos folded. For my new. I need an wrestle. but whether I should count There's meditating her. I think it a little too much counting. It. I do. I just think it's just in that world counting there's something very to me resident about what you're saying, because we do a lot of we're in an era where there's a whole there's a whole term? Now that's called quantified self that we we
are constantly counting calories- are how much sleep. What our heart rate is. Yes, get all of this data and its intriguing on some level. Nobody is an analogy with you and see what you think of this. I stopped eating animal products, about a year ago, live in more than a year ago, at first, I got really sick advocates that in what I was doing, and then I got into Patricia Earnest and he got beat account calories track, my food. So we could look at Look at it can actually very useful for a long time because really learned how to eat. In a way that made me, I could be true to my ethical values without getting wet right now, I'm realising our work have kept these still calories anymore, and it's actually giving a little unhealthy, I'm getting a little obsessive over it. I wasn't looking port that back orientation yeah. I think it's actually, and I want you to tell me whether I want you to fact check me on this yeah, that's probably somewhere, but just check me on this
I think, is a certain amount of value in saying, especially at the beginning of a practice. You know I'm went to aim for a certain amount of sitting, but after why the amount of like counting I'm doing, is probably crossed the line into counter productive, absolutely yes, I think it moves into two evaluative on of an approach to much assessing tomb, much centred on on on the eight year on year, and that if you can open up that really more fruitful practice could be happening if you can kind of open that door beyond the valve you achieve and the assessing and the agendas and the hopes and fears if you could open that door a bit at this point for you because of your dedication and your interest and sorry, that's Gustafson cause I sense and rating
with dedication. Yeah comes through very clearly unless sceptical about the practice. Ah, you sceptical about yourself. I guess you have to go generally believe things unless there's ever right right right. Ok, so that's that's! That's seen that same doubt. Right I mean that's doubt that with things that should be doubtful. Yes right, yeah. It's that I've Devlin on its intelligent racket You tell me I'm gonna get enlightened right away, or are they gonna get right, yeah so anyway, thou to on to see that as a pattern mind could be really helpful. In other words, you have to have a certain kind of intention now, eighty, but then you have to let go in terms of what the results might be because they're out of your control, so to have a clear sense of intention, great and patient great, but then all the evaluation and my getting anywhere am I doing this right? Am I doing this correctly? How am I, how am I doing? This- is pretty neurons
I understand that you personally as neuroses well, it may be generally true, but there's always, but if you as well taken- but let me ask you one last question: no worse puzzling letting the bologna or such a sacred to of great cocoa too, to be aware of it s morose he's, rather than as I need this Russia marketing get anywhere in my practice, it was very, very different perspective to move to seeing it as neuroses and making it into an object of meditation. Instead of I can't let the skull I'm gonna, be too lazy, I'm never gonna get it well, that's what My question is you to be ok? Go I might neurotic self is wondering, is wants to ask you yeah the artist formerly known as Jan, whether you, whether you you you would work, that somehow or I worry at least it somehow. If I let go of timing,
yeah that I'll just I'll never get any sitting see. I would love you to try that guy's. You yeah, because today, ok, because you're ready for it in the beginning, you do have to be a little bit more on track, but its developmental. So at this point everything points to the fact that forty to open up more for you, you need to you need to move with it rather than hold yourself back with the old thought structures. I love it. I do ok, nor it's gonna. Stop selfishly gobbling up your time to ask personal selfish questions loved, let's get the latter not selfish, because you know it's it's really. Everybody has the same questions
My name is better. I'm a big fan of the earth from bidding for your word is spreading yet so one of the obstacles that I'm having with my practice is to understand what a mental problem solving problems that should look like
inside my head for one of the most common meditation techniques is below thing has been very well now. So once I learned how to note my thoughts, I can create a distance between them and myself and then I can not engage with unhelpful thought: okay, fantastic, but decision making and problem solving a hugely important things in the daily life of a normal human being. So I dont always know what is unhelpful thought and what is locked. It takes some time and reflection and thinking like what are these thoughts? What is why am I having they thought sudden? which one I said follow which, when I shouldn't follow, so what does that process should look like? You know like, for example, in there and no,
I'm sure you know what that is, so you can make images black and white and shrink them in front of you, gotta be surely to make them feel smaller ones. You think that you don't want to engage with that. That is taught or whatever. I get the feeling that all this mindfulness teaches websites. They talk very little about this specific question that I have or have I completely misunderstood, something about mindfulness and meditation. Thank you so much. Keep up the good work by thank you, and so I would say just to clarify one term. There ain't you got hung upon numbed, I'm getting a little hung up on, but I'll say something before you answered the question. I think she was referencing an l. Ii, which is Neuro Linguistic Programme- ok, I don't know anything about and helping the object was shrinking. The theatres in the Congo maybe said genocide, ok in either the rest of the ok yeah put. This very much
to do with daily life practice where we are in the situation where we do have to solve problems over and over again, and if we abandon dad we are trying to live in this other world. That is not perfect, but not real, and so it's part of our meditation practice to come to the question of how to solve problems but from a medicine. Our point of view. So in our usual non meditative approach perhaps were always trying. We have this concept this is a problem and it needs to be solved from a net from an extra terrestrial. from a meditative point of view, which is equally true. We want to bring our attention to The sensations that are happening in the body, I'm not
or your fan of the noting I want to say I did it kind of his book camp for a couple of years with funding In my early years, attract rate vermes teacher in Yemen, Tita yup, I did it and it was very helpful, very useful, but it was something that changed as far as the practice developed. Recognising that we have to think we have to use thinking and the point in solving problems are we being used by our thoughts, or can we use our thoughts in a wise way right, so come to particular issues in our lives to be free from the ways that thought has its hold over us. This is this is meditative development. because thought does have its way with us until it doesn't, and if you continue to practice, you will come into a mirror.
space in which she had not drawn to thinking in the same way you're not as enchanted by your thoughts in the same way as you were, which means that you can actually think in Euro brings us back to thinking, but in a wise and and thoughtful way, and I think one of the best ways to use thinking is too meditatively question to bring up a question. That is a meditative question for you that allows you to all the problem without thinking in condition two ways about it, because that's what we do are conditioned ancient ways of any general habitual, exactly yeah then we're just you know following following: like will the cage we don't get out of it or we sell that problem than there's another problem. Then we solve them.
There's another problem, but to come at problems from a meditative point of view, means to ask a question that is bigger than the problem and something that does happen in meditation is that problems have a way of resolving themselves or dissolving as equal problem in our willingness to hold what recalling a problem in a different way. So it's it's. It's a shift, its real shift in it's one of the fundamental ships. I think that happens in or meditative life in our life, modification is how we approach what we call a problems. So let me see if I can see if I can sum that up a little bit. Ok, thank you! I'm maybe do it! No, I may not get us.
Close to what you were saying so lets them and make sure it landed YAP alive people, I think, there's a confusion among meditated, because in formal meditation practice your quadrant quote not supposed to be thinking here, you're supposed to be, feeling the raw data of your breath or you're. My fully aware of all sensory input, including thoughts, but you're not must be carried away by the right right, hidden right, no problem that lots of thoughts are happen, of course, that you just know that its thinking that's right, good, So then people get a little confused. Ok, well what I'm not meditating, but I do need to do some problem solving. What's the role of my thinking mine now yet- and I think that the point you made that I think address, that question is once we learned not to get someone added by all of the random while yeah, bitch yell writing process brought that that goes on in inner formal?
practice then, once we're not meditating anymore, our whole, our capacity for thought has improved. Yes, as we have done the new and original exactly exactly our thinking is actually more fruitful. Yes right. Do you mind if I read a little bit of meditative questioning, life questions are precious, they are precious jewels in our lives. I'm talking about the problems that we have. We need to respect our life questions and have great patience, with them. Although there may not be an intellectual answer that satisfies there can indeed be a resolution, an ending of confusion, in other words whatever it is, the problem is no longer one the issue simply dissolves: it isn't to understand that our relationship to issues and problems can change the same. situation may arise with all of the same particularity ease,
but our relationship to what may change so profoundly. That's something that bothered us meant sling in the past doesn't bother us at all. Any more The issue has resolved itself completely, not by being ignored or judged, but through being held with loving awareness. All questions, even such a question as what is the meaning life are resolved in that we no longer think about or experience axed in relationship to what was once an immense issue for us.
The issue does not arise in mind as one that needs to be thought about pondered. So that's a little bit of what I was pointing to, but I do think a question oftentimes is better. Then then the pondering or the ruminating about problems like how can I hold this differently? How can I look at this differently on what is needed right now and what's needed right now might not be thinking about the problem might be. I need more calm right now. So that there is or spaciousness to be able to think about the problem in a fruitful way. You could you use that does at a business in a meeting, for example, when ostensibly were there too, I don't I'll figure something out, yeah synagogue, maybe one you could ask a larger question
and left the room kind us it without. Yes, yes, I think it could be really helpful. I have a whole chapter in here, a meditative questioning, and it's kind of questions that you don't wanna ask like why such a jerk is not really such a you know. I helpful question to ask: there's endless answers to that right, but a question. So we asked the wrong question sometimes and wheat. We think that there's gonna be an answer to that. That is actually gonna, be intelligent or saying, but there other questions, life, questions that are really helpful to continue to ask, and then there are meditative questions like who you know who is experiencing this problem really really cutting through in a different way. and then in a meeting where you have to make decisions, there's a different sense, Beating there's more relaxation, there is more of a capacity to listen and respond. One is in quite as quite up with finding up
to kill their result in so maybe the result is something completely outside the box and completely creative yeah fiscal enclosing a we do this. We have this little tradition on show which, as we use a closed, something we call jokingly the plug zone, o log. Everything reminders the aim of the book agreed and we find you on the internet also tell us a little somethin about the CIA. M C, the Cambridge Insight Meditation Centre. Okay, so my new book is called the magnanimous heart and the subtitle is compassion and love, loss and grief, joy and liberation. I thought I would go for it. It was published by wisdom, publications and wisdom. Publications is composed of many Mediterranean who work at this publishing come
they are just so wonderful and inspired- and when I, when I have to mention them instead of like shining ensure stir suggested. I do this or that I can say wisdom suggested that I do soon, since my little joke wisdom, The book is, is available the eye Amazon yeah and I'm kind of out and about talking about it, because it's really a body of teachings having to do with when I first began to meditate up till now, so the idea is for it to be an honest and authentic rendering of a meditative journey. So something idealized, not something that is not realisable, but on an offering offering from from my heart to yours,. I'm laughing at her part again, you can let you get away with it.
We realize was job seeking. Add. Are you on the internet, social media? Anything like that? I'm not on such a media. You you can. You can look me up if you plug my name in you'll, find different things reduced for the Balkan, and this kind of thing I teach add a centre in Cambridge Massachusetts, called the Cambridge insight. detention centre and its and, as I said before, it's an o been city, Dormice Centre, and so people come for classes for dropping classes for talks and on we have non residential retreats, a number of them every year that I am in great favor of, because it's quite interesting to sit for a day like nine too,
haven't or something and then to go home at night. Go to your home, get caught up by. You know your pillows in your partner in Europe, this in your dad and then come back the next day and on recognize what has happened because of even just one day of practice so these residential retreats are much more powerful than may sometimes appear to be because in our lineage residential retreats at the bathing- and I do of course I teach at the inside meditation society too, and I teach longer retreats and I believe in them- and I I really am- I must have a wonderful institution You go in the right day, my kit, my mom at sea, I M C dry and thank you very much really appreciate a great job. Wonderful, thank you. So much you're really really wonderful, interviewer and practitioners. Thank you are right.
Thanks to new. I, if you want, by the way to donate to the Cambridge Insight Meditation Centre, please go to Cambridge insight. Dot Org came Insight dot, org and click on the donate now button. They do a lot of good work, their most of which is funded thy donations and before we go no voicemails, I've assumed just did that with Narayan. Before we go, I just do. I do want him as always say. Thank you to the folks do to make the show possible Ryan Kesler same Samuel, John's grace, Livingston. These working the boards is the engine here this morning, as I recorded the intro and approve the show big thanks D. are podcast insiders panel. The photo will give us feedback every week, thanks to you for listening, if you like this show you want to do a salad go rate us review us talk about it so from media. That's always extremely helpful, gets the word out about the show and helps us justify our existence etc. and after having said all that, I do want to say that we will be back next week,
Fresh new show was you, then there's, not a person in America who hasn't been impact it in some way by the corona. I was pandemic, but it every community. There are pockets of people who were soon
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