As far as meditation teachers go, they don't come more highly regarded than our guest this week, Jack Kornfield. Kornfield trained as a Buddhist monk in the monasteries of Thailand, India and Burma. He has taught meditation internationally since 1974 and is one of the key teachers to introduce Buddhist mindfulness practice to the West. You might think this meditation master is unflappable, but you would be mistaken. Kornfield discusses how he, one of the preeminent teachers in the field, still encounters difficult times, including how his marriage ended in divorce. He also delves into the role psychedelics play in the mindfulness movement. Plug Zone Website: https://jackkornfield.com/ Books: https://jackkornfield.com/books-audio-programs/ Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/heart-wisdom-with-jack-kornfield/id923017416 Twitter: @JackKornfield Facebook: @jkornfield, https://www.facebook.com/jkornfield/ ***VOICEMAILS*** Have a question for Dan? Leave us a voicemail: 646-883-8326
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
For maybe see the ten percent happier vodka in her, this is gonna, be, I think, a blockbuster episode. Jack cornfield is a true. Oh gee, a true legend in case you don't know anything about him, although I suspect many of you do briefly The trained as a buddhist monk in Thailand India in Burma in the seventies, you'd really wanna, first people whose on it Vanguard of this group of you Americans who and over to Asia and learn how to mediterranean and brought it back to the United States, he along with such tower effect? percent share in Salzburg and Joseph Goldstein ended up founding a place called the insight meditation society in bury massive, who sits and then Jack went off to found another place, called Spirit Rock Centre
She's in northern California, which, where I did my first retreat p as written- a series of extremely successful books that have sold more their million copies, including a wise heart, a path with heart, seeking the heart of wisdom. As you can see, he like the word heart more than I do He also became wrote a book with amazing title after the ecstasy, the laundry which is about what it's like to have all sorts of amazing experiences while meditating, but then you go back to your regular life and in this the interview you in here we talk about the vicissitudes of his life. The fact that he is this this man has been practicing meditation training is mine and intense way for fifty years. yet he had Georgia, divorce, a divorce and then remarriage, and so he talks, I think very candidly and bravely about that. We also talk about where he still gets triggered. In fact, we start with that and at the end he's gonna take,
your voice mouse. So, unlike most interviews where I started off asking people, how did you get into meditation? I wanted to dive right into different sorts of questions with him, so his biography, I just share a little bit of it with you, and it will start to spill out during the course of the interview, but we pursue a little bit of a of a different format on this one, and I think I think you're going to like it. So here we go Jack Kornfield Thank you for doing this. It is a pleasure I am happy to be here, and I am glad that it worked out me to address a big opportunity for us. Our audience is going to love this. Oh I'm glad love this so a question that was submitted to suggest it suggested by two people in the ten percent orbit. Both teachers, one is named, J Michaelson and the other is named. Cholera lie. They both independently came up with the same question that I thought was a very interesting one, which is, after all, these years of practice. Is there an area where you struggle the most to apply the tea,
she's to bring mindfulness in well, nothing comes to mind right away. I may be able to pull something up because they're, all both wonderful and difficult. It's not like there's some particular area there had been at times in my life and in past decades. I can get triggered by different things. When there's a lot of conflict, one things. I've noticed is that there are two different levels to my experience, Oh that recently I was helping a community it- was in a lot of conflict and people were angry and blaming and resentful. And I notice that now in my seventy fifth here that my nervous system is not as resilient at it used to be so that
for some hours of dealing with everybody's upset. I sat down to be with myself and my body was very unhappy. It was Anson, colonel all wired, and things like that. At this stage, in time there was a lot of economically. And it reminded me why I came back from the five years that I first lived in Asian. Most of them is a buddhist monk I was driving does in your twenty. This was exactly was in my twenties and and left the robes and was lay person again. I was driving down the Massachusetts Turnpike and a big tractor trailer in front of me lost a big piece of tyre its slammed into another car and all these cars were breaking, and I was very calm. been doing some years of meditation. My mind was really still and said: oh I'm slamming on the brakes, it looks like I might die now
oh how interesting it was very, very calm and at this in time my hand, grab the wheel. My body got all activated and run The car out of the way of the crashing and found me over to the dirt on the side and its head I'm going to die. Yet I'm gonna keep you alive and it was these two things that were happening at the same time, one was a great com. the other was my body saying: no, no, you gotta take care of yourself and that I found interesting and still carries to these day that there can be periodically in conflict or difficulty or thing.
I can get triggered activated upset, even although not so often and then another part of me just sees it as all upset, I'm not a problem and that that's grown over the earth, and it makes me very happy more than ten percent. Is that achieve a will for those of us who are never gonna, spend five years in robes and dedicate our lives to the except you have to the practice. I believe it really the possibility for everyone, and it's not that one has to go on long retreats or go. He noted the Himalayas or go to Kyoto and become as and monk or something like that. The beautiful thing is that the mind and heart can be. trained and it turns out even with modern neuroscience, which we might or might not talk about.
At their discovering that even short periods of practice start too. Rewire or Deacon mission, our kind of habitual responses of that were not so caught in them and I believe, and have seen people who practice over some time in it dedicated way, in their daily life for getting at certain times getting away for a bit of entertaining the people. We have a great deal more equanimity and balance and more perspective, so absolutely and if it were, What good would it be? You know how many people are gonna go to the Himalayas and it would get crowded in the Himalayas anyway. So it's not not it. really is something that's in us and because it's are the beautiful language that uses its your birthright. It is
you're human capacity to awaken both compassion and empathy for others, babies are born with it and your human capacity to be present. Without being so, we act of cod and things and no end and we love the exemplars of it in the world when Nelson Mandela walked out of Robin Hood prison after twenty seven years with so much, magnanimity and graciousness and compassion. He not only changed. South Africa be kind of change. The imagination, the world really it was as if to say they can put your body in prison, but no one can imprison your spirit and we can learn that and it doesn't take that wall. The meditation isn't just about making yourself quieter. You know stress reduction, but it's actually the ability to become more spacious with Europe's
periods and say all this is happening. They become the the witnessing what my teacher called the the knowing or the one who knows, and that spaciousness has more ease and more love unless reactivity say this is what human incarnation brings me to day. Em- and I can manage this where I see that play out my own practice, ten years of a little bit of practice, not heavily no robes and no living overseas, extended period of time, but I notice that old situations that would trigger me or automatically I would sleep. Walk into some sort of foolish behaviour doesn't happen as much.
And yet there are areas where the mindfulness I just can't summit it summit, for example, claustrophobia have very bad claustrophobia, deep results in a kind of panic response, a can't hurl myself into the Lotus position in those moments or certain things with my wife. We have a very happy marriage. I consider marrying her. The smartest luckiest thing that ever happened, that I've ever done, and yet there are moments where the knife illnesses is unavailable. To me, it might be helpful to no that when the Buddha and Jesus both went back to their families, they both had a hard time. So this just kind of gifts, set the bar in the right place I had a big fight with his sister in law whenever she was trying to get
women earlier with it well with it, with his stepmother buddy, also difficulty with his father when he went back to them it was and is an his ex wife. You know and by the way. Navies kid fetter. Yes, he did. He was. He was not a good good mood about child rearing. On that day, I was before my men exactly examined his defence, but any I so so in our life your friend rom dos, whose a wonderful in no wise age and spiritual teachers You think you're enlightened go spend a week with your family, basically, so that the more the closer we get to pee will the more vulnerable we get and also then our history conditioning can more easily get triggered for me when I was talking about these difficulties recently in this community,
that was all up in arms and so forth. I notice when I sat and a quiet that it also triggered a kind of fight flight or freeze memory. From my early childhood, I had pretty painful childhood. My father was in some ways, brilliant scientists, who was a bio physicist who worked in space, medicine and health design. Some of the earth hard, lung machines and things like that, but he was also had Mendel problem and he was paranoid and violent and he would be really abusive to us beat my mother and as terrible thing ass, a kid to watch them fight, and am I know said that conditioning, even though I feel really peaceful much of the time it can get triggered
and now more aware of it there it is, but it still hurts in some way, because it's it's a kind of trauma, that's wired in very deeply in the in my body and now, of course, the responses really different. I just have a kind of compassion for myself for free anybody that gets caught and things because we are all human and we all get caught and I've become less and less judge mantle of anything that's human cause. I see that we me that damn we contain at all
as Whitman's had I am large. I contain multitudes and they're, not all like. You know the most beautiful incarnations of ourselves so that its you're you're now talking about what is sometimes referred to is self compassion. Yes, not my favorite term, but nonetheless we can set that aside its aid. Now they ve returned, but it is one of my favorite concepts here. It is very difficult speaking again for myself here. I find that the development of empathy and compassion for other people, while not easy, is certainly easy or that it is for myself when I see things that I am ashamed of, I it's hard for me not to spin into spirals of self regulation. It sounds to me, based on the foregoing utterances, on the other side of this table from you that your actually at this stage of life, able to
really see this triggering in yourself and send yourself some good vibes here and by you talk about a something really important. There was this famous discussion that a number of us who were teaching starting the seventies. we had with the Dalai Lama sometime in the eighties. It was a teacher meeting with him and we asked him about what to do with the amount of self judgment and self hatred that we saw meditated encountering in classes and retreats. We taught and he was confused because there's no Worden Tibetan for self hatred and he in his translator, Jimbo went back Fourth into batten: why? What could this mean hum? And finally he understood it and he looked up with this kind of surprising and sympathy, and he said, but this is a mistake. Why,
If we do this, but then we then he said how many of you have experiences and all of us raised her hands. So becomes a really important thing for people who undertaken meditation, Brad, this tonight, use it to judge themselves already good enough at that, and some of us are so good wouldn't even higher us to be a judge, kind of humane society. We have to go up, you know through some dictatorship or something, but anyway, one of the great blessings that comes from mindfulness is that you can see the judging mind judging mind of yourself for others and the moment that you have this revelation there. You are sitting with em mindful loving awareness, which is the translation I like from mindfulness loving awareness, you're, noticing your experience, And then
judging mind arises: you're not doing it right. Those people or messing up whatever the judgment is And the moment you recognise all this, judging mind, and then that moment of mindful less or mindful loving awareness, you can almost bow do and say oh judging mind. In that moment you stepped out of the story and out of the belief of it, you recognize it. It's conditioning hum almost as if you could bowed would say. Ok, judging my you can even say. Thank you for your opinion. You know or yes, thank you for trying to protect me. I'm ok for now cause underneath that judgment is some kind of self protection, friends in some fresh or other and to be able to meditate.
Step back from the grasp of judgment and other states like it is tremendously relieving now. It also happens, as you point out that its harder to do for ourselves than it for anybody else, and so, when I teach loving kindness meditation, for example, which is a great compliment, Unmindfulness it used to be in the traditional form than we were taught in asian temples and so forth. They you'd start with yourself, but people in the West often find it really difficult. As you said, and so what I like to do now, his half people picture. first one and then maybe a second person who they care about words. Not so conflicted were there's love for you. My peer sounds like you of this wonderful relationship,
with your wife and wish them well. May they be safe and protected fuel, the care You have for them and also become aware, of their measure of struggle or suffering like every human being, and when you picture your wife, even as we talk and you see that she too has her struggles, there come so naturally compassion because you love her. It just arises as part of our art the way were wired and after wishing well and developing love and compassion for one or two people, then what I will do I will say, or right now imagine those two people turning their gaze back to you. Imagine your wife turning her case, backed you, Dan and wishing for you what you wished for her, she looks at you and I can do with my daughter, for example, or my beloved Trudy, my wife, and they want
same thing. They say: oh Dan, I wish you are what are well and safe and protected, and I feel a tender or compassion for your struggles like every human being, and you start your eyes, you can take it in from these people cause. They care about you. and then the next step also say is all right. Now, if you like put her hand on your heart and take those words that you heard from these lovely and bring them in and say right if they wish it for me. I guess it's ok to wish it. For myself. May I be safe? I hold myself with compassion all my struggles. May I be protected and it's as if the people that we care about can teach us why We can't find in our self. I had the great good fortune to do it
one on one loving kindness, meditation retreat with your student spring, wash em room whose been on this pact has several times and is an incredible human being and in teaching the practice to me she did send a very similar, which was we spent the first. This is a ten nine day retreat. if we spent the first couple of days on easy people who know eyes about the first one or two days, only Sending the phrases may be, happy may be healthy, may be safe. May you live with these etc, etc to life, then three year old Son and his cat oh and that was really easy and then She would say as soon as you get the juices flowing slipping yourself and that I found to be quite effective therefore also much the same way. It's like the the principle. We kind of think that meditation has
some sort of grim duty and it's really the opposite. The principle is to do that which opens the doorway of the heart most easily, whether its loving kindness, medicine Take your dog, your child, your beloved in whatever way, and let the heart open then little by little. Let it opened two things that are a bit more difficult, the same unmindfulness you don't wanna sit and say all right nominal not moon, make real pain for myself and learn to do this, which is a kind of nice war We are training in his and monasteries, something in fewer young man, as I was you know, we would say things in the forest monastery. Others live like us erasing dangers to do around here. You come on, prove yourself, but what's most helpful. Actually is to allow it to be a gateway to well being so winds and master tick, not Han says
as you breathing and now use the word com or ease with each breath, and I tried a point people as they begin to meditate to look for even moments of cod. homer, well being that start to punctuate the stream of thoughts- and, as you feel, even a little bit of it relax into it, and invited to be there a little longer let it spread. The point is to overcome things but to come back to a deeper sense of rest and yourself, and you can learn to do that, so that it becomes become something that you want to do or that you find nourishing, and even when you don't costs, a lot of people also use meditation when they get triggered enough, sad and so forth
You have the bodily memory. Oh there's a place that I've found already, where my body fines, greater ease, where our attention is much more so, Anxious, let me see if I can bring that into EU in this difficult time cannot go back to sending you said earlier about you, you were talking about mindfulness and you said it relation with the phraseology you now prefer is loving awareness. Yes, ITALY's say a words in them. You can river that I've noticed. This is I learned on the aforementioned loving kindness retreat with spring, which is that I had by that point, been practicing on nine years, whatever not some massive momentum, but
nothing and I notice it and my. Why didn't notice until this retreat that my mindfulness, which I would have to find a sort of non judgmental awareness, seen clearly what's happening in your head without getting carried away by it? Something in that range by my phone as head of here too, for to me impressed first of all, a verse iv flick to it. So I would notice judging- and I would note I am judging myself but there was in there or something I hadn't seen at which was, I was kind of pushing away, just as there was just the around the edges and what I notice about adding doing intensively this complimentary form of meditation, loving, kindness, another terminal love, but whatever, the EC created such a warm sunny day.
Position in my mind so that when all of my ugliness and it's all there for all of us all of my ugliness arose, I was actually you know welcoming it to the party as opposed to getting my teeth. So is. If I, in the range of what you are talking about, when you say, loving awareness, exactly because it's possible for mindfulness to be suddenly a form of judgment. I see it, but underneath it's like well, I'm seeing movement, the judging mine. The kind of wish it would go away or the other I'm so proud of myself. I have seen it we all kinds of reactions. and with loving awareness. You say, oh he's, proud of himself. Isn't that charming or you know still. Judging. Thank you for your opinion. It's ok. We know recorded those judgments in there anyway. We won't talk about them, but thank you for trying to protect me, and there
a sense of humour and a graciousness and kindness that which is exactly what you found in yourself in that retreat with sprang and this is again part of allowing meditation to have a ground of care of well being and dumb even of a kind of happiness. That's not the happiness of pleasure, but it's it's in somehow deeper than that. It's the ground that relies! Oh, I'm, ok, I can view with all the stuff that combined creates, although, as you said, the ugly things in the frightened things cause most of the things that are really ugly actually come out of fear of self protection and so forth. I can be with all that and say: oh, this is this is just humanity
you know I think about Oscar Wilde- phrase something about him: the tainted glory of humanity that we have all these parts of ourselves and not to be so so judgment, color or I think it's Auden who said to love you good neighbour, with your own crooked heart, some poetic line like that were in this together as human beings, and with that there comes a kind of graciousness and no kind of. Care for our common humanity and and much much less judgment of our self and others. And this is really important to say. When we talk about non judgment, it doesn't mean if they're still isn't a discernment so that actions that are causing harm to
there's two us or others. We see that clearly and can stand up and do whatever is necessary to stop that so that others are not causing harm to us or to other people. So it's not a lack of clarity or discernment. There's a kind of theirs. Actually, that's part of compassion response, a natural response to her Tat, our and others when were quiet and its in us, even the most hardened criminal is gonna pick up a child that fell into the street when the traffic is coming it's just wired innocent, the earliest studies, the stuff he's a yell of you, no pre verbal kids infants when not their own cries if they hear their own cries recorded their blithely. They don't care about but if the here the cry of another child or they see and adult, or someone in trouble the the the tree,
king of their eyes in their senses issues they want to do something about. It were born with us and in a certain way meditation makes the space we become the space to loving awareness. That can say yes here here is our human predicament are human life and allows for that? I call it the great heart of command, and that's born in new and us that, original goodness to to come forth its like you're, bringing you're better angels to the gym absolutely or to the game or to life itself exactly, but the gym by the Jim I mean is that these are therein us better angel, yes, those the ugliness and you can train one and let the other atrophy. If you go down this path here,
and in what you say. This is a major cause. We live in a very paradoxical life that just like light has, is both a wave in a particle in some way you could they are. We have you know better angels in ugliness and so forth and that to elicit way, but then there's another part of us that can step can be the awareness itself. That says, oh there's, all this going on, but that's not really. That's not, who I am, who I am. Is this witnessing this awareness? And even you know, as we talk, you can sit there and be in Europe identity as Dan. You know doing an interview which you ve done many times and have this scale and comfort with you can be identified with your
age or body or personality and so forth, or you can be the awareness that says here. It is all this is playing out as if on em, you know on the screen and that awareness is outside of time. My teacher on John Char, who was a great forest, meditation master. Really celebrated in Thailand. When I met him, he was not well on all and in some ways he was criticized a lot because he was a very strict teacher but after he died because his wisdom and humour was so beautiful and it started to get this I needed by little cassette tape in the nineteen, a million people came. His funeral, including the king and queen, because he had such love and wisdom that came through him. Anyway, he had practice
for ten years as a monk, in a really ardent way. Back in the day when you read those stories and people who lived in caves and out in the jungles in their word tigers and things like that Any overcame alot of obstacles and then he started to have all kinds of beautiful experiences of great peace and com. Dissolving his body into light, having a sense of some and which is a word for just unified consciousness and openness or tremendous love and things it also. Come in meditation, and this is a little parentheses is in the middle of this story. Western psychology tends to focus on pathology We have this great big manual, that d SAM Diagnostic Manual, where you look, up. The number is this person a depressive I polar or you know, have an anxiety disorder, and we that, where you get the insurance to pay and buddhist psychology tends to all those things it understand.
those, but it has a whole other volume about the positive part capacities of twenty five different stew it's a joy and fifteen of happiness, well being and states of tremendous peace and equanimity and how you develop them. So he had developed a lot of these things and had all these great ex insights and he went to see the greatest meditation master of the day. Another your honor teacher named John Man bowed to him, and he said I can tell you about my meditation and he said I went through this and I had these inside incites in these visions and also overcome the difficulties in what should I do next and the master look back and said: Chaw, you missed the point. Those are just experiences. he said there like movies, you have a romantic comedy and a war movie and a documentary,
You know, and there are different kinds of movies you can see. He said, there's really only one question you have to inquire into, and that is whose watching the movies to who Do these happen so, instead of trying to get ok, I've got a great movie. I want to keep it, but you know anything. You try to People like holding your breath, you can't keep any mine state. Is that, instead of trying to keep something turn your attention back to the knowing become the one who knows was his phrase seeking Bhutto become the witnessing to experience and that's the place that you'll find freedom, and this is really what I'm talking about us, loving awareness that there is a place, that is available to us, no matter the outer circumstances where we can be come where we shift back to become the cards.
This witness the loving awareness of experience and not be triggered are caught, and in it there is understanding and discernment, and Compassion and even when we're getting caught me say all there areas caught again, you know, but there's some all smile with it like ok, I don't have to go down that road fully and this capacity that we have to shift idea. Eddie, from being in the middle of everything, to being a space of love and awareness. Hum is really the gateway to power, our well being and freedom and that's possible for anybody Low pick up on that plea, please you say that it is possible for anybody, and you invoke invoked this phrase of the and who knows, simply and grand new largely. How do we inhabit that space? And that's that's the big question
so I was invited a few years ago to the first Whitehouse Buddhist Leadership conference. There was a White House buddhist leader. Tat was under action president. Let us say the previous present. Ok, it's not gonna be happening in this next next week. I dont think who knows, but one I knows it's true miss the universe is more mysterious than we could imagine your old may it have your old friend Joseph Goldstein likes to say anything can happen. that's right so may it happened, but anyway, I'm not pack my bags to go. I will just say that much, but any as I was able to be part of the kind of summary address what we talked about an eye, quoted. I brought a teaching from the time ancient time of the Buddha these as these things were written down. You know going back thousands of years because not only was the Buddha he was
human being. He wasn't some kind of a god or something, but he was awakened being, which is to say there were Buddha, mean someone who's awake is living in a conscious and free free, hearted, compassionate way. He was also a councillor two ministers and kings as well as to but he also be met. So I said so. The Buddha were around these days. You probably would be invited to the White House in own he'd have, and then I said so here was his advice to a particular M king or ruler. He said for for a society to prosper, not decline. The first principle is people have to come together and meat and listen to one another with respect to see the dignity and each person and if they meet and bring a quality of respect to their differences, they will prosper or not. Line. If this society treats the voice,
honourable among women, the children, those who are in need with care and protection. They will prosper, not decline if the society tens, the natural environment- well, no prosper, not decline. If they follow the the healthiest and wisest traditions of their ancestors and of the wise teachers before they will prosper. Not So I read this and I said now: the truth is that this is not unique to buddhist teachings. You can find it in Socrates and play
when you can find it in China and lots you can find it in the indigenous elders of the Iroquois Nations are in Africa or other places, and I said the thing that makes buddhist teachings particularly important in our time, and it's not to make you become a buddhist spare. Are your friends and family. You don't want to be a Buddhist. You want to become a Buddha, but the thing that makes them particularly relevant. is that there are training to do so. This is not just a beautiful philosophy or a vision of wise society. Here's how you train compassion, here's how you train loving kind here's how you train, mindfulness and by day, so even in small chunks. In ten or fifteen minutes. I have a programme with my dear colleague, tar bra called my
from this daily online that you'd get for free on my website. I'm forty days of fifteen minutes a day and people report changed my life fifteen minutes a day with all the instructions of how to do it, and that leads all the way up to this beautiful teacher training that we do for people. But I said so are our neuroscience research. In the last couple decades, there been more than five thousand studies, papers published on the benefits of training and mindfulness in its capacity in training and compassion show who's that in education and health. Care in in all these different dimensions in business and so forth that if people actually spend some time training and do these systematic trainings that the mind and the brain itself starts to change is amenable to as actually responsive
to how we pay attention and how we train ourselves- and I found this first of all. I find it to be completely hardening cause. It means it's not just, when there's not tattling, some new idea or some belief system, that's fine. These are a lovely ideas. But how do you do them? Which was your question? That there are ways and that therein truly pretty straightforward and they're, not beliefs The sums are not a new religion, I mean we ve had our retreats catholic monks and I'm catholic nuns and pray listen rabbis in Emma in people, while different faiths- and you know it- so the agnostics and everything in between say totally fine. Whoever you are, these trainings offer you a simple way when you undertake them.
to learn, to quiet the mind, to ten the heart, to find an inner well being and balance to open yourself to compassion in the world. These are the birthright of humanity there. Now only in other ways in the world? It's not just unique to Buddhism, but there's beautiful, systematic ways to do it and now Neuroscience says yeah. These actually work. Is there something if I'm listening this past right now, and I want to be able to access this space that you ve described of the one who knows? Who is there a way to do that right. Do I do I need to take your coarser wow? Is there something I do there and there are two things. One is up. Myths helpful to take a course. My course happens to be quite a good one, but there are made there little judgment in there, but there is a limited bolster been Yahoo and terror brought over its head, the gold standard, so
and at the same time there are lots of other, very good trainings in meditation online. That one can find hum and it's really helpful to have instruction cause. You set first and you close your eyes, and you say right: I'm just gonna become the witness to it all and ten seconds later I'm really upset that she or he said that and I'm going to go and I'm going to call them and write a letter, and you know- and then I have to own I'm worried about this. You know and it while the monkey Mind- and you see it is so
easy to get lost in it. And then you find yourself faced with restlessness and doubt and confusion in fear, and you can you don't know what to do with it. So having some simple instructions, it say: here's what you do with the monkey mind, here's what you do with the judging my here's, what you do and fear arises or pain in the body. You can approach that pain and hold it they're like three steps. First, as you turned toward it. Secondly, you acknowledge it and see what is that pain, its fire, throbbing and so forth? and you see reactivity, then. Third, you step back from it and hold the pain. The way you'd hold a crying child with her. You know: there's this infant and their diaper changed. I ve been feds whose nothing you can do that way and there still crying. What do you do you pick them up? You hold them and just the fact of holding them with a kind attention that child
little by little. There are crying slows down there, breathing quiet and they become more peaceful in your hands or your arms, and it turns out you can do that with your own bodies. Pain doesn't make the pain always go away. Sometimes a body were her. But you can hold it in that way and all of a sudden, you realize all right, there's a level of freedom. Here I didn't know I kept running away from it being afraid of it, and now I actually can be with it, and it doesn't scare me so much then. The next step is to turn your attention from the pain and that space of holding with compassion and say well, what's holding this who's. Holding this I'm in and not some kind of weird way, cuz, you don't find somebody in their work and there's like a little person in their the wizard of OZ, with the levers or something. But instead you start to sense.
That there's a space of awareness- that's not cod in it. That is available to you, and so, if I say to you even as were sitting here down, I just stop being aware right. So this is our little practice for you know ten seconds or some do whatever you can do. You know close your eyes, grit your teeth M, imagining. What ever you can stop being aware? Ok on your mark gets it dry up and you can't do it now best. I can do is try to get lost in some stream of right. You could even going, but then you are kind of look the aware of that thought, your sort of in at stream, but to stop awareness. You can't do it cause it's here. So
what them the movement of becoming the one who knows in his in a kind of simple way, a little bit like fish in water, which is why it's hard to explain and something in some way is to say out. There is awareness and then there's all stuff going on at the shift from being in the even there whereas we were in that example, holding the pain with kindness and realize oh yeah. This is now holding the pain with kindness. And there can be a little commentary, that's thought, but beside the commentary, there's just spaciousness and still We longed for silence. You know we law, all for it, and yet we don't quite know how to find it. Yes, it's beautiful to go out and in the starry night and look at the sky and feel a sense of mystery
but we live in industry and justice. Worse seated, here speaking or those who are listening, you can step back and become the the loving awareness and say are wow this day. Isn't this mysterious this moment and that is available at any time yet, just as I said before, in the show that that there are lots of great mysteries, we'll huh, how did the universe come into being? Why are we here, but the great mystery that is available that you can bump up against? In your own mind, twenty four hours a day, if you want, is the mystery of consciousness? How do we go free eyes? I've heard you won't say: how do we go from on this planet from rocks to being able to sing opera how'd? It would, however, how do we become aware, as how did a bunch of particles become aware
all you have to do is look. You know. I didn't notice whatever your hearing right now and then to look for what's hearing it and then you can add on the other question of who's, asking a question at it and you find anything but, as is often said, probably by you in there, finding. There is something very important, there's something beautiful, which is this space of openness that sees that everything actually arises in mind in conscious this mind is the primary thing you know and that, while there are several really important things had fallen from one is the teaching that No one can harm you more than your own mind, untrained and no one can hope, you, more than your own mind, wiser, opened or train, not even the most loving family or friends that in some way
It says who is your enemy mind? Is your enemy if it's not train who's your friend mind as your friend that the ability this remarkable ability we have as human beings to turn our attention from the our experience to our own heart and mind to see both the content of mind and then to recognise that there is the possibility of awareness is, is magic more ten percent happier after this better help offers licensed professional councillors specialised in a wide array of issues like depression an anxiety and grief conduct with your professional counselor and a safe private online environment. It's a truly affordable option and listeners can get ten percent off. Your first month, by going to better help dot com, slash happier fill out a questionnaire to help them assess your needs and get matched with a councillor, you'll love
As I mentioned before, I've been collected, some questions from you from or you from all sorts of people under another present suggested. Some questions was our mutual friend doktor Mark Epstein are listeners will know him he's been on the show several times great psychiatrist here in New York City is written. These beautiful books the overlap between psychology and Buddhism, and so I asked them so with which it ass Jack and he said very severe short quote: ask him about Silicon Valley and psychedelic acts and love. So I won T love we ve been time a loving awareness, but love is it boys raided term I just wonder if I could get you to refund the term yeah, it's frayed because it has so many meetings in our culture. You know I love Baskin, Robins ICE Cream,
you know, or I love you know certain p bull or I love a sunset, so there's there's kind of theirs sense desire. I love it when people who ve been in conflict can find a way to resolve it, there's those kind of love. You know, I love you who understandings and then there's just plain love. You know feeling somehow connected with the whole world. It is mysterious. Love is like gravity, we don't quite know what it is, but I feel in myself that love is that residence or connection when the sense of Britain is drops away. My dear friend, Alice Walker, wrote he's had one day when I was sitting there are like a motherless child, which I was it come to me that, for Gonna be in a part of everything, and I knew if I cut a tree
my arm would bleed and I laugh- and I cry and run all around the house, in fact, when it happened, you can't miss it and we all have had that experience. You know it might have been making love your fortunate enough to have that which is a wonderful thing or might be walking in the high mountains or might be her lying out. You know in the grass and looking at the night sky when it's dark that guy, mystery, or maybe it's when you're there at the birth of a child part another vision, the mystery how human beings come into this world of another person's body or here there are holding the hand of someone when their dying and that person this Spirit leaves that body there's that by
there have been in a moment, it's just a dead body and you can feel the difference when there's consciousness and when there's not and the gates between the world's open or maybe it through taking some sacred medicine likes academics, almost everyone- has had the sense that were not just limited to this little visit. a body? U are, are our family identity or our conditioning that who we are ass connected with the vastness and that some part of love I am tempted to just interrogate that little bit by sallies sounds to me like you're, describing ah, an inter action and interdependence. Yes, that's different from the way, many in our culture would perceive love yeah. Well, I think that it serve like
you're worried about climate change and the rain forests, and things like that when you feel that, as as has been written their part of your lungs, that every breath you take Pask, you know at some point through the Amazon Rainforest. It also dusted. The tops Monica and monitor lower, and Fukushima nuclear reactor that we are. This is our air and our lungs there's a kind of tenderness and love that comes cause. It's us, and So there's one dimension of love that we actually fuel a care because naturally it is it is who we are. I dont tend to use the word. Even I- about loving awareness. These time using the word compassion, alot more because of the complexity of the word love, which is where you started. This question that, in fact,
You know I want you, I need you rock and roll songs. You know baby, oh baby avatar with away. We have, I mean our culture, All these you or you know- or I of my new. You know air sneakers, etc, we have all these different meanings, and we get confused about, and we could talk about that and you know intimate relationships and so forth, word compassion, has a lot less afraid it. It's not exactly the same as love close, it's more attending or carrying when we meet the suffering of the world is a hard opening to try to respond in some way to that, but what it does speak too is again are very deep sense of connection and caring and maybe instead of talking about love, I talk about universal connection or universal care.
and to live in? That way makes us happy and makes the people around us happy if you know carrying people, you want to be around them. You know and when you had a day when you ve been able to express some care, you could call love and so forth. There's a satisfaction in that day, that's beautiful it and so important, because in the hospice work I've done in many things had been written about it. The end of life. You know some of the biggest regret for the biggest questions are
Did I love well that I let myself loved and I let myself express that of two people- things that I cared about? Did I let it in as well as out this is what makes us human and makes us happy so there's a little rough on love. What about. You have more to say about romantic love. I love romantic love You know the problem romantic love is there are several times. What is that it doesn't? Last generally so long, its half life is not as long as you would like, and I've been together now with Trudy for ten years and sounds like you have a wonderful beloved. South and most of the time it's there and I'm like just still happy. We em
I asked her to marry me. We ve been together first, some years. And I asked her one point: what she wandered for her birthday or something- and she looked me said: oh I'd, like a husband. She I want to get married and an eye pause and I wasn't sure cause I've gotten divorce in it was, it was sad painful. I didn't want to get to force, but there it happened. I was a little but reluctant, even though I was very much in love with her, and I said all that something for you what I said was something like. Oh ok now I understand where you walk, but it wasn't like. Ok, let's do it. I was a little reluctant and she knew that she will issue a sort of teasing. Me too and then I sat with it, and I really I love. This will, of course, why not so oh some,
on Slater after I'd sure of work through my own fears about it really because the ending four of my marriage had been so pain, I invited urgent to take a ride on the Ferris wheel in Santa Monica. We her home, where we live part of the time is in in Venice, next Santa Monica and she likes that she's. A big kid in a lot of ways- and I do to source of this- around the fairest wheel and, she said sure was lovely afternoon and I whispered to the at the bottom of the first real I said: stop the top I'm gonna proposed to this woman, and so he stopped the top and I've, got on my knees, and I pulled out this box ring in
yesterday, Mary means used completely surprised and it was wonderful, and now, every year we goin ride the fairest wheel in kind of redo it. So there's something beautiful about romantic love, because we able to see the beauty of some one, in a way that makes us happy in them happy now that the downsides beside the fact that it can change is that it often is also a kind of idealisation that, if this person loves me I'll, be happy so there's a sort of business, an exchange in that way and We see all the beauty of this person when you're in romantic love. You just see how great that person is another. course later on, as in all the great poets writing about. Oh, my god. It turns out that they have feet of clay and they far or whatever it is, and there you men and they're, not just that beautiful Ideal that you imagine
and in that way romantic love, I think, is the gateway to a deeper kind of law. I mean we can seek romantic love and try and find one that ideal fail then we and our relationship we look for another another another as if that's gonna last and enhance very unsatisfying, but when that romantic love becomes a gateway to see that secret beauty of that person that they are behind these eyes it was born in them is a child at the kind of innocence and spark in and consciousness that's far deeper than you know their conditioning in their personality. Then love really blossoms and differ away and my experience of meditation is that it allows me to be present for myself in a more
fundamentally honest and open way and allows me to be present for others, and that is part of the gateway to love. I enjoy romantic love, I'm still happy to have some of it. You know just I enjoy beautiful music and enjoy great art. I asked Oh enjoy it. You know a mystery, or a thriller or other kinds of things. Even you know that aren't romantic, but it's it's a gateway for us me. I've heard you speak in other places, quite in my opinion bravely and you helpfully about your divorce. I can. I can hear a question through because I'm such an expert meditate her I have the divine ear. I can hear the the questions of my audience. No? They have even listen to this. Yet that's my tongue in cheek Here, a question possibly of disguised suggested a meditative adapt.
How did he get new? A relationship that went pear shaped, I think that's an unfair but I can log career coming at our question to what, because we're always looking for exemplars like ok, I would pick it by teachers and say how enlightened. Are they really you know or and then I've watched cause I'm in the industry, and I hang out with lots of swamis lamas in Mama's and crews, and things like that. I see all their beauty and I also get to see you know the shadow side of it and sometimes a course. It's just a bad shadow side because its people who are in the roll who are actually quite unconscious and exploit people, and that happens, weathered teachers or doc. there a cruiser anybody who has a role of power to misuse of power. But I have also been around and watched great teachers like sand bastard, hon get angry. You know and upset
or the Dalai Lama get upset a war. This is interesting and dialogue is fantastic. He has such a. One of the finest human beings I've ever met such a gracious, hard and beautiful laughing. In fact, you know I think people go to see the Dalai Lama not so much for all. Those tibetan Buddhist teachings which her mysterious and some of them were. You know like changing and allow of we can't even figure out really. I don't think they go for that, or even because Is the sort of celebrated Nobel laureate I ain't people You hear him laugh that somebody who could carry the tragedy of too bad
The burning of the monasteries in his life in exile and still have such a beautiful laugh as if to say you know if, if he can live with so much love and joy, which he has and laughter, I guess it's possible for me, it's possible for any of us So living a human life is not without its difficulties, and everybody, there's the they all. take not Hon was in exile and had terrible, difficult, the Dalai Lama and in my marriage I got married, quite young. And how do you know about that? beautiful daughter and some years of quite a lot of joy and happiness, but ass. My daughter left for college in Graduate school law school and things as we do in marriage
tenacity sort of look at well alright. What are we going to do now and my ex wife is one of the most introverted people. I've ever met in my whole life, very private, very quiet. I, on the other hand, Have you know a thousand best friends travel around teaching large numbers? Have you know I've kind of the crazy extroverted life It was not really a very happy match in that regard, and it takes two to be married she's like ok. I had enough of this. I think it may know not words in her mouth quite, but she didn't want that and I'm a pretty loyal person I would have stayed married, but it
happen and it was. It was really painful and thence erases wall. How does a mindfulness meditation teacher get divorced? They get divorced like anybody, they go through the pain of it. They have regrets, says I I admire your grads. You try to do it and thoughtful ways you can, but it's not easy and you do it is human being at without trying to hold at all, without so much judgment and without with some compassion for everybody, because it wasn't easy Ludden, not just hard for me hard for my axe hard for here, my daughter and it was interesting. I was talking to my daughter, whose very wise I said she was in her twenties and I said so. Your parents are getting divorced and, even though your grown up with still your mommy and daddy, do you
have any anything that would help you and us, and she looked at me and she said TAT be happy and if you're, if you happy, then I'm ok and she under that for her mother to it was a beautiful thing and very, very wise. So, let's an incredible thing said: yeah here, that's an example of ice and has thank about this thing tat. You invoked the name of the Dalai Lama, the first am. I interviewed him. He said something to me that really had a big impact which him sham shared among the person. He said this too, but he was talking about the fact that all human beings are selfish were wire for that. But there is a wise kind of selfishness, which is to develop generosity, empathy and compassion, and that's what your daughter, it seems to me, was demonstrating their, which is the best
for her is for you to be happy. Yes, the other things on mark of scenes we're Silicon Valley and psychedelic sets out the humane. Them in connection due care to talk about either about those. I will talk about both of them. I written about psychedelic acts in a number of places of work whole chapter reading a book called bring home the dogma and one or things that's true is My generation of Buddhist in Hindu teacher, spiritual teachers who had a big hard in bringing eastern practice, not just eastern philosophies from practice alive in the U S were almost all deeply affected by taking lsd and other psychedelic starting in the nineteen sixtys when they became culturally more available
and what we found was dated. It open certain doorways to c o the mind really creates everything, and how do we work with this mind and so forth, Now I want to learn more and it took share and to India, to Thailand, places or rammed ass to India and various teachers. So I think it's really important to acknowledge that its woven in with the movement of these practices from the east that that have really transformed our lives. It was a gateway. It's not it's not. panacea, and it's not something that will just saw things but now Was it went underground because the culture became or the you know, the FDA and medical establishment became scared of it in some way.
Was mixed with the revolutionary ideas of the nineteen six exciting. To but now with the publishing of Michael Pollens Book on the scientific research and sell us I been and other such things. That book just for the curious is called how to change your mind. New York Times. That number wonder your comes a seller. He documents, the new research, is being done there certain cases. Still aside, then, and other such things have really powerful beneficial effects so that people with PTSD that's coming back. Sometimes one or two sessions changes their life and releases them from that work. I'm stopping smoking, which is a really hard thing. Almost any intervention. The best interventions were like fifteen twenty percent, and then people start smoking and nicotine so addictive after
tell us I've been sessions. I think it was either it and why you medical School, Johns Hopkins after a year. Eighty percent of people were not smoking, so These have great value and there spread in other ways. Lookin Valley, where I work part of the time cause. I live in the Bay area and there's this sort of Hip Silicon Valley culture that the exploration of these things is also become relatively calm, I am all for it when it's done Anna, thoughtful and sensible way. Of course, We're Americans who we know how to misuse anything. We can misused meditation and it can be misused, weakened sue, psychedelic dream, but it discerning and wise way. They are one of the that kind of medicine is one of the gateways that can help us to some kinds of really important under
standing so say that much and I written a bunch about it Priscilla can valley living where I do, we ve had a number of texts. Leaders come to retreat, Serbia. Twisted in meditation and I've gone to different companies and so forth and I've become part of her a group called Moebius, among other things, in doing in Silicon Valley and connected with the centre for humane technology of Tristan Harrison. Other really wonderful leader, I'm trying to find ways to recreate a vision of technology that is, brings out the best inhumanity because it turned out like everything to have a very beneficial side and there really destructive side, whether it's the destruction and you know it in used in ways to ferment system or tribal is
more violence around the world in different ways or to squash things, are false news, euro or teenage girls who were looking their image. On the phone and how many likes and and feeling terrible about themselves with all kinds of Miss uses Two were part of a group of people Silicon Valley that are really stepped back and saying. How do we make principles for artificial intelligence for the engineers for the debate? uppers so that this gets steered in a way. It's not just about profit that doesn't just try grab your attention by making the scariest or the most in time same thing one after another. Until you can't stop watching you tube is inadequate or something. How can we do it in a way that enhances our well being and that's a question for our time What's true is that
and the reason that I'm a part of it, we have neuroscientist and Contemplatives, and then then, tech leaders. Is it? No amount of outer develop nanotechnology com, viewed technology. I biotechnology space technology is stop continuing warfare and racism and environmental destruction. Those things are based on the human heart war conflict in our mental destruction, and so the outer technologies that are so remarkable, where I have the great library of Alexandria in by smartphone in my pocket, now have to be met with Intertrans nation that humanity is being called upon. to learn these capacities for compassion interconnection.
wisdom, loving, kindness as One of the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said we a nation of nuclear giants and ethical infants. And so are outer. Development now has to be matched with in development or those outer things become forces of destruction. But do you think the titans of this particular industry, tech are going to listen to you or is the profit motive, just too strong and they were holding after all, it's their shareholders. When someone asks a difficult question like that, my answer is yes to both. The profit motive is really strong and its both in the industry in that kind of greed and Wall Street and how're our whole economies based on profit and greed in some way- and there also some leaders who have great hearts and wisdom who are really looking We do this imbalance this is our human predicament.
Those who are listen. You have all this in you. It's not just those titans you're, the type in your house for growth or whatever, and the beautiful thing is that when you quite you yourself even a little bit and step out and stop Multi tasking and running around, and you know whatever, and let yourself get in touch with what really matters you can begin to both ten quiet your mind, ten, your heart open to the deepest values. You have an end, discern incense. How can I live those, and I like say: there's a beautiful quote from Albert Einstein that I dont think as an artifact of the internet cause. I read in scientific American where he said if you can drive safely while kissing her girl. You are simply not giving the kiss the attack
It deserves, and there some way in our modern life that we get so pulled by distraction whether its technology or other things that we lose touch with ourselves, with our own hearts with what really matters and part of meditation is too quiet ourselves. But that's the beginning in that, coming to quiet we connect with ourselves and a deeper Level of wisdom and care, and even tenderness for life starts to come and also a deep level of courage that we can. We can stand up with a kind of dignity he for ourselves and others that we have a kind of courage. Costs were connected to what we really care about. You have heard of this traffic stupid a Tibetan
Tibetans. Phraseology for enlightenment is something like a clearing away and bringing fourth lovely lovely. I think so too. We have about thirteen minutes left. I would love to get to listener voice mouse. I dont know if will get through both of the ones with a cute up. But let's see what happens to your mother put some headphones on the up. Can you hear me very well? Ok, cuz I got calling from Norway I'm at ten percent happier inside there and have been meditating for the last ten years. I've read all your books down and listen to every episode of your podcast and I'm a huge fan. The first book. However, that put me on this path is the path with heart, can't you come on when he does look many years ago and I consider Jack my first and foremost our my teacher, even though I have never met him in person, I'm not extremely happy given a chance to asking the question
Now I am, I think that we are instructed to identify with our thoughts and stories we tell ourselves, since they are not necessarily true war with ours, feelings and emotion, since they might stop us from seeing clearly nor with how we exist in this world, the jobs we have the people around us. Since these are the things we cannot always control or two nor with our bodies that will bear is instead we sit still and see who we really are. That's at these things short my undressed, ending of the teaching. My question is: how do I know who I really am? What is it that I can identify myself with the in the water? Can I reflect myself? What are the dimensions? Are references on media to use,
he who I really am when I am no longer my thoughts. My emotions, my surroundings, my body, what's left thanks, gun and keep up the great work that you for the question. Just so you know, Jack, ten percent, insider ear or Pakistan Centre is basically the herb group of people who give us feedback on every episode so that we can do better job and that a dedicated enormous amount of time to this. So we give preferential treatment to the insiders to be able to ask questions Well I'm glad to hear from an insider netted. I feel I feel like now I'm inside to upgrade the question is a deep and beautiful one and its one. That's asked certainly in the practices there it's and where one might sit and have the call on the question. What am I
who am I given by the master, it's there in the advice tradition in India, where a great teacher like Rama Har, she might say, there's only one question to ask: who am I and so she's asking this question in some way should also asking for my answer like how do you find this and the answer really? Is there in the question because as you, ask her. What you discover is that there is no solid answer. Ok, I'm not little person in their working? The lever is like the wizard of OZ and I'm not those thoughts. I can have thoughts about who I am, but those thoughts appear and disappear and it points you instead back to then mysterious quality awareness itself, which is openness,
and presents, and when you look for you don't find yourself in it. But you do find awareness and you do find the connection that it holds everything. So I would invite her and those were listening or in some way following along with this, not to look for something solid, because that would be the mistake, but to be in that what ones and master called don't no mind to say. Well all right. I know I'm not this in this in this and to be open to that's base of not knowing where there is still awareness, and there is also still a sense of presence and connection and explore this in the simplest way rest in it and and experience that it's possible to rest in awareness itself in loving awareness, because it contains.
connected with all things, and this is one of the great beauties of meditation there isn't a cookie caught her answer right now. You have this new fix it in you find it. Instead, it's an invitation. For you in your own way to discover? Ah, yes, even as I listen to these, urge there's the hearing in the sounds in the ears and then oh there's an awareness that here too no this not just the thoughts on thinking about hearing but there's actually awareness. These sounds, and now I will be the space I'll, be the vast open space in which sounds in the experiences arise and pass. I will become the space of awareness itself. There is meditation that I'd like to teach and my dear friend colleague, Joseph Goldstein, teaches it often as well called big sky MA
and our big mind that we have on our websites and so forth. There is another very simple doorway to help people enter into the question that she raised remind us exactly where we can find your. If you go on to two things, either to die Missy dont Org, which is a website that has thousands of teachings from insight, meditation teachers and look under my name or Joseph Goldstein you'll find big sky or big mine practices or, if you go on my website, check for cornfield dot com. There will also be you can look under meditations, and this is an invitation to practice together for a time and turn your attention into that mystery, and it turns out to be brave
of the accessible as you do this meditation, starting with sound and allowing yourself to sense that your mind is not limited to your head, but that detached actually vast, like the sky awareness on which all things are arising in passing, try it it's actually pretty cool. Ok, we have just a few minutes. So. Let's do the second question and if it's so big that we can answer it in time, that's allotted will drop it. But the was given a high, its Ghana and I may put an insider. This is a question for Joseph and Jack, I'm wondering about including somebody who has died in a in as part of my loving
practice. So, first of all, the people do that at all or how would you go about even phrasing that? And how do you include somebody in that? So thank you for everything by that's a simple question. There is a teaching in some of the instructions for loving kindness meditation to not use people who died when that practices being used for profound concentration because it can be destroyed then you might feel grief for you might miss them, but in the way that its asking and our normal practice of loving kindness, it's great to bring in people who died and to picture them and to wish wherever you are causes again, were now opening to mystery,
wherever you are may you be safe, may be protected wherever in whatever form you are, and to turn ourselves to that mystery with love is beautiful response and part of what you learn and meditation is how to wed the the individual and the personal with something that have asked in universal. So you remember your Buddha nature, your vastness of awareness, but you also have to remember your zip code near social security. Number after drive on the right side of the street and stop it light and so forth and were creatures of paradox and the. the discerning mind and heart is natural to us. We know how to love. When we get quiet, we live and present. We live in a wiser away and we lose
with these two worlds. We live with a world with the great heart of compassion and a sense of vastness that grows as we practice are access or ability to to shift our identity to that becomes more available and then- we tend the world and an insane. They say there are only two things you said, and you sweep the garden and it doesn't matter how big the garden is that, is that you quiet the mind and tender heart and open yourself to something mysterious and vast and filled with compassion and love, and then you get up and you ten, the garden of the world, and each of us has particular gifts or areas that we can do and were not happy. If we don't do some gardening or life, part of our happiness comes because where each born with certain gifts,
and to be able to offer some of our gift to the world is also what makes us happy so like, breathing in and breathing out. There is mindfulness has two dimensions: it has the dimension of presents loving awareness and that it has the dimension called mindful response and both of those are part of what it means to live wisely. To think society was your first, your lovely wife Trudy who I've met. Would you pass her a message? Yes, please come on my podcast. I will tell her that and she'll do it, I'm sure, to thank you very much? Thank you. It's just a pleasure and I feel, like you, have with your your own personal experience with Europe combination of scepticism
and and sincerity, and wit and honesty, self, honesty and so forth? You open the door for people in ways that again is not some kind of weird. You know cultural transplant, but you actually invite people to get real, an honest and then say that this is not only is this workable, but my guess is that actually you could change it and it would now be like twenty percent happier, maybe thirty percent Mark Epstein has argued that my next book should be called twenty percent happier, I'm I think I'm gonna get out of the math business for now, but thank you so much out of those kind words. I really appreciate it very much thank everybody who was so cool to sit. with Jack Mean man. Is you ve heard it till? I don't need to commit to anything, but he is. He is a giant
cue to everybody who makes this show possible. Samuel Johns grace, Livingston Ryan Kessler might give working the board's, as I record bears I close, I want to make an ask which is I know we always say- radar Review S, Sheridan, social media, every podcast who says that it's really helpful for us, because we always one- RO and I just on the sharing Tipp, if meat or maybe maybe five an episode or to that is particularly meaningful to you and share that. Would you friends or a friend, and he had a great way to get the word out there. We care lied about what we're doing. We think we could be useful, it even more people. So if you want to help us with that, I and the rest of the team would be super grateful, even if you're not up for it no worries. I'll see you next week, a person in Amerika who hasn't been impact it in some way by the corona virus pandemic, but it every community there are pockets of people.
We're suiting up every day. This is my my day last day of the cylinder stretch of quotas from one of our time, these or America's essential workers, the people who are keeping moving. I turn into a homespun mom and now in a new plants from ABC News. You gonna hear from damage I actually went back to my office and saw a crime, because it is not fair hearing here making sure that our community to sell faintly Bahrain. This is essentially inside the from emergency room, it's the police cruiser to the czech outline. You hear what this pandemic sounds like the people. Putting selves norms, which is always a risk that I could breathe is home to my kids or my husband, or my parents listened to the essentials inside the curve on Apple podcast, refitted, podcast, em,.