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#285: What’s the Point of Joy Right Now? | James Baraz

2020-09-23

In my opinion, purveyors of joy can come off as oily and unctuous, even in the best of times. Like walking impersonations of Rainbow Brite. But in hard times, arguing for joy can seem pollyanna-ish or downright clueless. Our guest today reframes joy as supremely relevant and eminently doable. His name is James Baraz. He is the co-founder of Spirit Rock Meditation Center in California, and author of the book Awakening Joy. We talk about: why joy gets a bad rap; why it’s not a feel-good project, but instead a “feel-everything” project; and the role of meditation in taking on pressing issues such as climate and race. Also, stay tuned for a cameo from our producer, Marissa, who weighs in with a personal question.

Where to find James Baraz online:

Website: https://www.awakeningjoy.info/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/baraz415

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/awakeningjoy10/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtcjQ-YTKDv18nT6t3Abq1g

Books:

Awakening Joy: 10 Steps to Happiness by James Baraz and Shoshana Alexander: https://bookshop.org/books/awakening-joy-10-steps-to-happiness/9781937006228

Awakening Joy for Kids by James Baraz and Michele Lilyanna: https://bookshop.org/books/awakening-joy-for-kids-a-hands-on-guide-for-grown-ups-to-nourish-themselves-and-raise-mindful-happy-children-9781941529287/9781941529287

James Baraz leads the Awakening Joy course each year which people take from all over the world. You can go to awakeningjoy.info for more information.

Other Resources Mentioned:

A sorority of mothers in Mexico search mass graves in hopes of finding missing children's bodies: https://abcnews.go.com/International/sorority-mothers-mexico-search-mass-graves-hopes-finding/story?id=67639741

EAARTH by Bill McKibben: http://billmckibben.com/eaarth/eaarthbook.html

Dianne Bondy: https://diannebondyyoga.com/

Why mindfulness matters during a pandemic: https://mashable.com/video/mindfulness-tips-coronavirus/

Additional Resources:

Ten Percent Happier Live: https://tenpercent.com/live

Coronavirus Sanity Guide: https://www.tenpercent.com/coronavirussanityguide

Free App access for Frontline Workers: https://tenpercent.com/care

Full Shownotes: https://www.tenpercent.com/podcast-episode/james-baraz-285

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sometimes people might think all their joy boy, but it's deeper than that. For maybe see this is the ten percent happier podcast then Harris hey guys. You may have heard discuss this on the show before, but throughout the pandemic we ve been giving free access to people who are working on the front lines that includes teachers, healthcare workers. So far we ve given free access to more than fifty thousand people. People who are taking on an enormous amount of stress while their working on behalf of the rest of us and we recently expanded that recovered to people who are involved with the? U S, postal service, we wouldn't be. But to provide this level of free access to so many people without the support of our paid app subscribers. So if that's you say thank you, and if it's not you and your interested, let me just take em up
to encourage you, because when you are paid subscriber, you not only support our work and our free access campaigns, but you're also getting access to our bevy of world class teachers, meditation courses and coaches. So if your interested, please go to ten percent dotcom, Slash Subscribe, that is ten percent. One word all spelled out that come slash subscribe go fort hello. In my humble opinion, purveyors of joy can often come off as oily and unctuous, even in the best of times like walking impact the nations of rainbow bright, but in hard times, such as the one through which we are living right now. Arguing for joy can Pollyanna assured downright clueless. Our guest today, however, refrains joy
as supremely relevant, an eminently doable. His name is James Barras he's the co founder of Spirit Rock Meditation Centre in California, author of a whole book about joy, old awakening joy and this conversation we talk about why joy gets a bad rap, why it's not a feel good project, but instead a feel everything project and the role of meditation in taking on pressing global issues such as climate and race also stay tuned for a great cameo from our producer on this episode, where Schneider men who ways in quite bravely my opinion with a personal question here we go. James Barras arise James Joy boy, welcome to the show. I know that moniker is at least some facetious, but super interesting when you talk about joy
what do you mean because what I think of joy- I think I said this before in the Show- unless civil special level. I picture those Toyota commercials from the eighties, where somebody's just bought a Toyota and their leaping into the air. What do you mean when you Invoke the word joy well and put us on the word joy or different flavors of it are quite prominent. It's one of those in fact, as of enlightenment, it's a very nation, in the four divine abodes theirs super happiness and there, promote your gladness in lots of different expressions. For me, I'm talking about all the states of well being and there's a continuum of that from deep peace and contentment to rapture and less, and everything in between there is a place,
inside of us that longs for happiness and that when we discovered it's right inside so truly, I'm too about well being is just not as catchy to say, awakening well being is awakening, joy is the whole range. How does one access joy? What can I do to get more joy, Probably the most direct route is getting out of your head and into your harsh, I would say, because it's usually in the head. That's trying to fix things out war solve problems as you. As far as that is as important that is. When the mine starts spinning. It gets contracted and
when there is a kind of spaciousness and ease and relaxation that now state of being can be accessed then, swirled with that state of. Well, being you see here, you see a baby whose diapered Third and FED, and given a little bit of love, they squeal with delight wow. There's wonder there is openness and We were all that baby it gets covered over with so it's really quite down and giving enough space to get in touch with that natural goodness and liveliness that spread inside one of my main formulas. I've got a few but one of my main ones is first,
anticipating being right, where you are having a connection to that genuine presence to where you are at out of that us into the connection doesnt lifeless that comes in at the beginning of opening to joy. I would say I mean a push you I'm gonna go The character as I do love my role as this fidgety sceptic bring it on. I cannot be cynical, do like being sceptical the Buddha said, scepticism was very good good. Thank you Buddha. I was there for them. My son and he came out purple and slimy and screaming like an undersea creature, that had been brought up from the bottom of the Marianna Trenchant did not want to be here and so on, I ve no use now.
But I remember what it was like when he was a baby and yes, there were times news, cooling with delight and then other times he was puking in my face. That's a little glib, but I guess what I'm trying to get out of. You know this authenticity that you reference getting out of your head in into your body and then the dp sets available therein etc. I dont know like I said, and meditate quite a bed and find myself continually stuck in my head were confronted with all sorts of, of my own ugliness, etc, etc. So I don't know that I feel like Joy is as easy, as you know, like hailing an arbor. No, it's insane practice, editing some understanding of how the mind works, and the first step in the process is making friends with. What's here, if you trying to bypass and so on. Gimme, the joy I get me out of this
confusion, and I want some joy you're, very attitude of grasping of wanting us, version two what's here is gonna work against you, so in whatever way, possible, to get a sense of spaciousness and acceptance and compassion around what you're going through compassion is a key doorway to awakening the heart. So you can bypassed us where you have to start to come to terms first with what your actions Frances and actually. The pain and the confusion and the duke as we call it in Buddhism, become a doorway to joy, it's one of those lists of all is that the Buddha has he has One listed, sir, you can pursue friends with a cold trends in debt all dependent arising where he
Says that suffering he starts with suffering which is what he started when the first novel truth is suffering in the world, and he says suffering can lead to face not necessarily, but it can and often does faith Can lead to gladness gladness can lead to joy, can lead to content and concentration all the way up to awakening, but it starts with suffering being caused a factor for facing some those people say well. How is that possible? And I often ask people who have a quizzical look on their face? How many people here have come to their spiritual practice will come to looking for deep
answers to life through suffering and most every hand goes up. So it's not a bypass the confusion and all things get in the way, but to have tools to work with them. So that can have some space and understanding and that most these things up and creates enough openness that we can access would steeper inside. I could see people getting hung up on the word faith but by faith I imagine you mean a trust and confidence that this endeavour is worth embarking upon it. If the word saga is translated as either faith or trust or conviction or com, prudence, there's something bigger than my own small, story of the world
this moment and there's a kind of inspiration that we can get from opening up to a wider perspective. So how would work- and I'm saying this allowed a hoping that you Correct me would be you can find in meditation that your suffering, you know either it's a leg, cramps murderous it's just above your left, nostril or falling into. Same habitual thought patterns that have been with Since you know that argument, you had with your mom, eight seven or whatever it is all of that comes up, and yes, it can suck it also knowing and getting the increasing sort of bone level action, and then drive level confidence that offering will arise and inevitably pass impermanence in this aspect can be your friend.
That can be. The doorway to the other was sort of more fun links in the chain of faith, slash confidence, joy, etc. Definitely, that's one access, You know, as you probably have heard many times in the practice, is not what's happening. It's our relationship to what's happening, that's really the key, so it's dead doping, a wise relationship to your experience, whether it's a pain in the knee or memory from thirty years ago. Oh can I haven't eyes relationship. So I'm not. Completely lost in my reactions and then I can respond appropriately and wisely. So why
you did you fastened on the joy aspect, because if I'm here you correctly everything that we have just discussed, is you you? You start as your teaching emphasis with joy, but then a very quickly becomes a meat and potatoes Buddhism and police. Correct that, if that, incorrect and if its, not then, the question I guess I have is like what Your life in your mind, encourage you to fasten onto the aspect of joy and all of us who I have in me my natural, but before I came to Buddhism words, there's a part of me that always did like to celebrate life. And before I got in touch with boot. I was deeply impacted by name curly, Barbara Rum doses grew model I'll show read, be here now
in nineteen seventy one and it changed my life really appealed to me. Wherever. Then I discovered the dogma nineteen. Seventy four when Joseph costing first came back from Asia and that for some retina Roper he and Jack were there and Sharon too like I came home, I was thrilled Then I found a past too there, and I had worked. Is called all long honeymoon period where I just one tell the world you just have to be mindful. You just have to be mindful and then at some point I lost my joy. I became very serious about my practice dead, serious emphasis on the dead. And I did lose my joy, there are some teachings that I missed
construed which could easily be misunderstood and went through some internal conflict with what did really teach and I went through a period. It was a difficult period for a few years. Until I realized wait. A second I'm, not The alignment with who, I really am, I said, the Buddha as this kind of stern taskmaster. That said, it's not ok to love life and have fun and then Fortunately, instead of turning my back on the teaching I said well, what did the Buddha really say because he was called the happy one and, the Dalai Lama in his book, the arm of happiness, the first line in this book is the purpose of life is to be happy. So I started Take a look, and I say: okay, what did the Buddhist say about happiness? Not just fine But in one's life- and I said
some beautiful teachings that made sense to me that I haven't quite her package that way That I then started practicing. And bringing myself back in conference, both with by true nature and with the teachings. What are the teachings eastern practicing that helped nardoo towards the aforementioned Congo? glad there were three really she's, not the basis of The book that I wrote an the course that I've been teaching for quite some time. The first is the Buddhist.
Teachings on wholesome states, the teaching on wise effort. There are four aspects of wise effort to having to do with. Unwholesome states are Kusadama and to having to do with wholesome states, so the Unwholesome states are too slow: greed hatred, delusion, jealousy and You know those guys any says God against those if you can guard against them from arising. When they do arise, which is part of being human, learn how to overcome them, and then it wholesome bar cultivate consular wholesome states, love kindness generosity compassion joy. All of those here. Is called mindfulness, which is the key. The whole thing cultivate those wholesome states and the four
which doesn't get a whole lot of air play. He says when there's a wholesome state that arisen reason. Maintain and increase that wholesome state is a good thing so that was the first one, and now you might say well wait a second. If you ve got a wholesome stay and you're trying to maintain and increase it. Isn't that just grasping, but the tricky part is. As soon as you are trying to hold on to a wholesome state, just turned into an unwholesome state, because any kind of grasping is a russula. So The trick is rather than trying to hold onto it. How you maintain and increase a wholesome state is to simply be very present, for it.
The mindfulness form Else not only is also state cultivates, others button when you apply it to a wholesome state. That's here without grasping you give it life, and you actually amplifier enhance it first, one is understanding where happiness really lies, that's wholesome states and to be really present for the second teaching which is a relatively obscure teaching that I came across in. In one of the suit is in the middle length, discourses. He says: there's a gladness, a feeling of uplift, that's connected with them. Some state- and it gives the example in this discourse- he says- if you're in the middle of a generous act,
thank you yourself, I'm being generous South He says this is a good thing not away everybody sees how generous a guy I am, but rather all just noticed how good it feels for generosity to move through this being only feel so good and the lion and suitor. He says that gladness connected with the wholesome. I call any equipment of mind to disarm all hostility and that gladness one gains inspiration in the meaning, inspiration in the truth, so he says: pay attention to that gladness, it's a really good thing and then the third teaching is fairly well known, teaching again in the middle length, discourses wear says
Everyone frequently thinks and ponderous upon that will be the inclination of their mind. So in modern, nor in science. The saying goes, neurons that fire together wire together So it's all a matter of habit and when I saw all of those three, it occurred to me to look at the different, wholesome states that are spoken of in the teachings. I picked. In particular ones that seem to follow a logical sequence for me as far as developing, and if you do it over time and you call them a wholesome stay and you're really paying attention to it. And you do that over a corset several months as your practice
start to notice your mind shifts from seeing what's wrong too not to notice all the good and it creates face for you to open up to all the difficulties. So that's what I do The evolution left us with this, sometimes useful, but often knots helpful negativity, bias, hyper vigilance scanning the horizon for threats. Sounds like you're nudging us toward a rewiring refrain, meaning vigilance for the positive exactly that's it If I were cancelled, armies it dear friend, and as he put sister, the brain is like Teflon through positive experiences in velcro for negative ones, so it takes some training to
be on the lookout for the good and not only noticed, said, but to be present for mindfully, not just as Oh, this is a good moment, I'm happy now, but actually to be mindful in your body so instead of knowing and feel good right now, to notice. This is what it feels like to feel good and just with a few moments of terms, your attention to that, so that there is a visceral experience is tremendously powerful. That's what we do over over course time. I'll, give you an example, just my own life and tell me if you think this is appropriate operational leasing of what you're talking about. I will preface this by saying that my family extreme privileged if you want to less pc term just lucky during
endemic. We were when it hit for the first three months, we're living in New York City with our five year old. It happened there. Least was ending and we had the means to be able to get out of city with my cousin, who else lived in the city and as a single mother of a child is my son's age. Her daughter, six, my son, five and we were able to get up to the suburbs, but is incredibly fortunate thing and I have Rule I met a woman named Lucy DS last year whose leader in Mexico of this movement of moms, who were searching for the by conservative estimates, forty thousand missing people in the country of Mexico, It's probably closer, two, a hundred twenty thousand anyone Lucy's son is one of the disappeared and she's been leading. Hundreds of other mobs to go out and look for mass graves and she's issue incredible person and
one day were talking. I spent quite a bit of time whether one day she said something like you know, it never turned down and opportunity to spend time with your family and stood a little rule that I've generated is that unless there are dreamily. Extenuating circumstances. If my son knocks on the door of my office and says he wants to play, I will do it at least for a little while and this alone sorry. Sorry, we first mood of the country. There was a snapping turtle, we saw a front yard, we were so excited issues bearing her eggs. Ninety days later the little turtles showed up they were in the back yard, but they were going in the wrong direction and we found to them and we march them over to a nearby pond, and then we found a dead one along the way and my son, he was asking me. They had named the turtles that he said. I hope Alexander and chain are doing well in the pond and he said
that I hope Alexander Anders Shane are doing well in the pond, and he said it also Dan as it and he said he had ass the dead one he's got a sharp sense of humour inherited from I'm sure it's mom. Anyway, all which to say even in those moments, when my mind may be calling the elsewhere, I've been trying to pay attention not to the thought of ok, this fund fun Harrison to name but suggest just it feels good in the body and the whole system to be taking a few moments to say, time with this kid who, by the way, not be five forever long story Ipod guys, but does that sound like an application of what you're talking about exactly? How do you feel when you felt it? Oh, this is what it feels like
What a great feeling feels good, even when I feel proud of my son from burning me, I love that, and probably even just in recounting the story, if brings it to light up to which is another very interesting principle that sometimes we We can go I'll, never feel joy and all you have to do is remember a moment like that. And there it is it's much more accessible than We realized, but that's it, being and in fact that's one of the reasons why. Being around kids can be if we can set aside our agendas can be such an excellent doorway, because there they have a sense of wonder and they're playing with the world. We forget how to play often, and we become
doing important matters of consequence, and so a lot of It is bringing a sense of wonder to the world. Like Jesus said he said. Unless you become like children, you will not know the kingdom of Heaven is an Einstein quoth he says there is to it of going through the world. One is seeing nothing as a miracle and the other Everything is a miracle, so it's like bringing back Natural Alliance Sinclair reality and really being present for at once. There is beautiful story one. More very short story. This one. I promise just accentuate your point about playfulness. I love it. Yesterday we went back out in the rain to look for more turtles. We didn't find any, but heard my son singing. It's raining its pouring The old man is boring, referring to me so
yes arena, he senses it too. You know when you get older, you know you can have those very certain things to do, in fact, he sometimes marches around the house saying I'm important, damn imitating his dead, so yes, the playfulness really important, and I wonder just to make this really practical for listeners. Are. There are specific ways, meditation or even just an orientation in our basic meditation. We can use to accentuate these consular qualities that you're describing how definitely there's lots the ten wholesome states that I chose teachings they're all ways to cultivate wellbeing. Mindfulness brings them about. Naturally, there's these wholesome food. Hers and unwholesome factors, and then there are some that are neither wholesome or unwholesome. This fifty two mental factors in through the psychology of one model.
The one you need property of mine for this is that it is the only one that both when there's Michael what's your weakening unwholesome states, suppose you have sadness. Worry or anger when you're my full in a wise way, you or weakening the unwholesome. State you giving its space you're not getting caught up in it and there is a kind of opening wishes by the way one of the key components of wholesome, say, says: spaciousness is a relaxation and all the unwholesome Windsor contracting so, from this weakens the unwholesome states and it strengthens the wholesome states, automatic without you, even realizing it. But when applied, you can call up. A wholesome said, same loving kindness. You do some we time this practice, you just inclining the mind towards
swell being towards wishing well and then you're really present for it. That's cultivating a wholesome state You can tune in to compassion which is a wholesome state, even though it requires suffering when you feel that quivering of the heart that residence in the heart and you feel that sense of caring and your present for it. That is a whole instead of well being one of the most direct ways is gratitude. The Buddha in one discourse in a blessing suitcases to be content and grateful. This is a blessing supreme, some a direct way towards
Well, being is to think of something that your grateful for and be very present for it if you like, I can take you through thirty seconds of well being if we opt for. Yes, I do like ok, I close your eyes, go inside, bring to mind so blessing in your life. Some one that you grateful for or some circumstanced grateful for just be quiet, call up the blessing.
And now have an image so that you're even more in touch with it, that personal situation now give a simple silent. Thank you right from your heart to that person, nor to life a thank you. And now just relax and enjoy that feeling of gratitude, feel it a new body of thank you just marinated it. Thank you so much. Ok, you can open your eyes
So two things to say this just came to mind him my end and won't surprise. Anybody to hear me say that the thing I am most grateful for is my son, and this morning he came in to my office. After use, soaking wet came into Gimme, ugh and yeah. I can feel I can feel gratitude to him gratitude. The universe to the universe, to the IVF doctor life, and then I also feel fear. You know that something would happen to him, etc, etc. Would you make that your human, it's great, can see it carefully. So you can pass out the gratitude. Then the joy see the subtle
conditioning of fear and attachment that can block that it happens all the time since people are afraid to love or To really let go and let themselves feel fully joy, because they they're afraid of the other issues can drop, and so they can advertise there. Well being out of fear or as You probably know when we feeling matter when we feel in loving kindness, but your enemy of loving kindness. What disguises loving kindness, his attachment, and so They can get mixed very into try very easily and sell. The important thing is, to see how that works in the mind. So you're not subject
to that very deeply practice. Conditioning and work with the fear, don't preach and it's not? There really see it and name it. So it doesn't have power that it often does over. You say you can just, hold it wisely and then go for that Well, being that's expansive much more, my conversation with James Barriers, read after this staying in full has never been more important. Information is coming in us faster than ever. So how do you make sensible start here? I'm bread milky from ABC News. In every week days we will break down the latest headlines in just twenty minutes, straightforward
porting, dynamic interviews and analysis from experts. You can trust, always credible, always solid start here from ABC News. Twenty minutes, every weekday on smart speaker or your favorite podcast app so, I think you ve brought us very nicely to L a If I want to do in this conversation, because other issue. People will inevitably have in this won't surprise you at All- and I am happy to make this pivot cause. You have a very good answer and a very good track record. Big issue that people have with the emphasis on joy is in a world that is deeply lots, swear sauce. I messed up Jos him. Another word in a world. Such as the one we have an occupied today. There is a lot to be. Really angry about to be scared of. So what
all this joy play in a messed up world yeah? That's the big class and as May, you know, I'm besides being involved with joy in teaching about joy. I'm also vary involved in things that have to do with making this a better world and dealing with all the suffering Climate is a big issue for me in, and certainly these days between, the virus in race and injustice and tree. That seems like its past we going off the cliff or else maybe we'll go in the right direction, doing everything I can to make sure the latter comes true. That is one important. To do what we can to make it a better world, but not be so overcome with our feet.
In our region or anger, so We can be more effective because As I said in the teachings of bonuses, hatred never ceases by hatred, hatred, ceases by love alone. This is an ancient and eternal law. When you're around somebody who's Phil anxiety and worry and outrage, which can be any said. Any time I mean definitely get into those play That's not where I live. In my share of news to be informed, and there are those things can be, activated, but when you're around somebody in environment, who is expressing that? How does it feel you might, compassion for them or commiserate with them were say yeah. This really is a terrible world, but it's not gonna. Do.
Be leading to the wisest response. When you're around somebody who care deeply about the world, but has islands and equanimity and also sees the good in the world it affects. You Just like fear is contagious, so is balanced and centred ass, one my friend says: we're in a race between fear unconsciousness and you don't wanna get caught up in the fear. So the more you can be realistic and see what's out there and address it wisely, but come from a place of love, come from a place of gratitude. Come from place of seeing all the goodness in the world, then you're. She will be much more effective
You also magnetize inspiration, so it seemed like it's one of the most important things to do to stay in touch with. What's good, along with seeing what's difficult one thing about it? First to me a number of years ago, when I first started to the climate issue, I read a bill MC book and I ve been aware of climate, and it was troubling, but I just kind of put it on the back burner and I read that book earth with two is to see the different kind of earth that we were about to enter and it shook me it shook me deeply fur really about a year to really take in the enormity of what we might be facing, and I was with a friend of mine who was a dime, a practitioner and also the head of a climate programme for World Wildlife fund,
and I said: hey Lou, I've gotta do something, but I've just been teaching Buddhists meditation and Why, for the last few years, you know, I don't know what I have to bring to this and he looked at me, and he said James Joy might be the most impact and saying we need to remember now and then just getting colors shivers remembering at me- such sense, because you don't wanna, be putting out to spare and fear. Worry as important as those things are. Two metabolize Wanna come from love underneath all of that worry and outrage is care and if you can get in touch with the care with the love with the gratitude for the life and this plan
we ve been given that much more inspiring and back the title. So I really want to hear what you have to say about something. I was on handle the other day Mashable, which is a big website. It was doing a big panel on mindfulness and was me another mindfulness teacher and Diane to use an african american female yoga teacher. I was doing a little bed, a sort of a much less articulate, less a full version of your rap about the importance of joy and and and trying have a careful relationship to anger in this moment, given everything that's going on in our world from climate race to politics, the pandemic and I am that the over teacher she said something that really stop me. My tracks, which was she did she didn't you. These words exactly she was quite careful about how she said it, but this is how I heard it. She basically said it straining for her when wealthy white men talk about the disutility of anger, because anger
she was saying, really helped her see things clearly and get moving and by the way what happening out in the world is genuinely infuriating, and I had to agree were there. But I also agree with what you're saying so a sailor. Words their weight. Where do you land on all this, both true they're, both true that anger is not only a human but important in that it offends to see injustice and rule and yeah just unfairness, son, so many levels and ignorance, but it's not. Sustaining kind of emotion. It gets one going. The outrage is important to get us out of our complacency, but if we're stuck in anger,
If that's the only thing, that's fuelling our actions, it is not us sustainable nor magnetizing quality that were putting out. So I think it's absolutely essential to get in touch with our anger, get in touch with all of those feelings of our but, as I said go underneath them to the place that it hurts why this anger is a kind of protection for the hurt inside because we care, because We love, because we want this to be. Kind of world permits, children talks, getting on the need to the soft spot that place nor ability said it would coming really from love all The anger is what has gotten us going at
woken us up and his absolutely essential to honour the anger and honour the outrage it's not as effective action coming from that place to go on anything from carrying that. It's really trying to protect us from love can be, at least for me, as a sceptic can be a bit stop her as a word, because it can sound grandiose, but you in earlier on. In this conversation that you'd, I believe you invoked me your remember shade, Was on the show, a few weeks ago, great meditation teacher in the twin tradition: he was talking about love as like. Just the way you are that he doesn't need to be grandiose. You can look at every shift in your chair every effort to be more comfortable as a form of love, if you just think of love as just giving a crap or caring, and so yes tuning into that being the under girding force? Anger being
secondary to that yeah. The anger is the response to the arab world and there is a contraction, but underneath his something much cheaper and when I say love, there's lots of different words, and this is one of the things about a weakening joy, that I am quite aware of words- really important. So you want to be able to communicate the words that people can resonate with. That's why I have allowed different definitions for joy right off the bat when people doing that, but love can be carrying is kindness, like the Dalai Lama's by religion is kindness. Most people can relate to that or basic goodwill just wishing well, so it doesn't have be flowery. In fact, it can be a little bit tricky, you're trying to do
walking skipping the field of daisies and saying: oh yes, it is, wonderful, but that basic, deep caring she's there and compassion is well, which is in the face of suffering all of those qualities of. Wishing well and having want sensitivity in the connection with life. Those are all work, those are all race. It's as you try to- and I want to emphasise the done. A lot of work on climate and race is well As you try to walk this line of sizing. Joy and leaning into sort of engagement with the Ngos of the world. Do you have see in your own mind, earn other people's minds and emphasis on joy, leading one to a kind of Pollyanna S could denial? Definitely theirs.
Passing in so many different ways in the spiritual journey and when I start my course, I say this is not a feel good programme. This is a field everything's programme, and so well being does is give you a larger context to process all the different feelings that are there. There's nothing left out and sometimes they say in Buddhism, and so you have to honour that's. Why said before often tickly being where your at and feeling the connection with it, then you and have some space around all the painful feelings in the hurt feelings, in fact one of those ten steps. There are ten steps in my book in my course. The force after gratitude. After you, you know I've gone through intention, and mindful us and ingratitude is the third, and that gives you the space. To then go into the first step, which is opening up to the difficult
An essential piece of opening to joy, say you're, not living in denial. You not covering up what's here that why the buddhist storm, the first tell the truth there firm in life. Until you're, ready to really open up to that you're gonna be in denial and avoiding so they go right together. I hope you are mad this, but I want to bring in Marisa whose producing this episode, who you were talking about the difficult Then she was on a retreat with you where she had a real insight around dealing with. Difficult, emotion, around shame, Morrison Would you be willing to come on just tap a question? Fur. Mr Barras above us how exciting I'll catch you, my so yeah I did the three month meditation retreat and James is my teacher further for
Six weeks and the retreat ended- and I did not go very challenging and area right. That's why we're doing there Maybe I understand the power of the triple jam and why samba matters and sound it isn't just being in a room silently with people. It's like having spiritual community to support you and the retreat ended, and essentially things got very complicated with who I thought maybe was my spiritual community, and I basically have been in shame about that ever since a holding a lot of shame about that for two years now, You know talking with James and Pre, reviewing him and seeing if this would be a good shovel and decided It was your a retreat. We haven't spoken since then, and it sort of like the floodgates opened because one I realize had been holding this with me. For so long and just felt so much shame
around it, because I think that can get really tricky whispered. Full community is like almost we try to bypass when there's a problem, because you don't busy bore spiritual and they practice and James told me he said. Shame is a misunderstanding of honor. Top emptiness barely struck with me, so I guess the question would be to explain what that means and how that can be of value to people who experience, shame and suffering, which I think are people do First saw all I'm so glad that just through this Arranging of this interview, we got a chance to reconnect and process what you went through, and I'm so sorry that you did go through that, and I glad that we can work with it because
It's all workable as soon as you start having a wiser relationship to what happened, and this is not do. This is for all of us there, the healing and, as we were talking. Tat. I really enjoyed reconnecting and talking and exploring. What I said was when we have shame we're stuck in thinking. Oh, I. Was a bad person. I am a bad person. I did something that it's hard to figure myself, for I dont want people to see who I really am the mind might say, but that God, who you really are in when I said that some misunderstanding of matter, and not, as is the concept of we are the selfless nature of reality that taking why
everywhere ceiling is who we are and taking ownership of a particular ceiling. That comes up There is a misunderstanding. We have all of these feelings that come and go. I know what shame is like. I know what fears like. I know what self judgment is white and in fact, processing that and seen. Oh, this is part of being german enabled me to be. There are others who go through that. It's just part of the human experience and so to look back and see. Oh, I just didn't understand. I just seeing clearly really in Britain, the way I see it is not so much evil. Just not understanding not seem clear Well, that's the definition of a personal to see things clearly, its ignorance, real villain ignored
so to forgive the confusion rather than to blame myself for what happened. What I did and even to forget, rather than to blame myself for what happened, do what I did and even to forgive the confusion if we can get to it when we're ready in others, people who have their own confusions. Dormer teachers are included in there. So that's where the healing really occurs. When I hear and then in mercy may have follow ups, but what I hear in that- and I I confess to only having episodic passing understandings of selflessness Another is a sort of impersonal nature of the various emotion mental qualities that wash through us
Shame personalize is any ignorance or greed or whatever makes it all about you, even though derision really a you there and dead to see oh yeah. Well, I was caught in something else, maybe not so wholesome, like an ignorance or agreed, but it's not so much that I am thoroughgoing we rotten because there's thorough going about you at all. I wonder if one could hear them. And say well as that away to disavow responsibility? Will first very well put like the way you just explained the latter it's all just arising in passing arising in passing how many moods have you had today, Europe? the EAST coast say you ve got three more hours on me, but you probably have gone a lot of different places. Your moods in your thoughts, how many different parts of your head and which, one can you point to say: oh that's why I really am you know
you see, you saw me, you get happy, you an email and you might get grumpy. Whenever so, it's all just coming and going and coming going, but as far as responsibility, if you don't know any better than you dont know any better, but once you do now Once you do see, I have a choice here. This is one of the vote. Blessings and curses of awareness that you can't pretend you dont know anymore, and once you see where it this leading to a few. See that you have a choice, this opens up. World, and so, as far as responsibility, you know Of course it is based on intention and on
just standing. What your intention is behind your actions, most people are not in touch with their intention. So precisely, and so they just keep on creating more trouble for themselves by acting out of greed, hatred, confusion, But once you see that you can choose, then that changes everything if you dont want to create suffering you'll choose a different ways. One of my favorite teachings of the Buddha he says to the calamities ceases adopt leave anybody, don't believe the teachers, don't believe the authorities, don't believe the Buddha. Don't believe you views. But when you know for yourself this leads to suffering. Then, if you don't want to suffer,
don't do it and when you know for yourself that this leads to happiness and a few well being and happiness then go followed. The choice it's yours, so the response. Stability, It comes from seeing more clearly that Europe actions have consequences but until you know until you know you don't know so I looked back on my life, for instance, about this in my book, all the mistakes that made when I was in my twenties. Secondly, in my twenties I looked back. And I went on one loving kindness retreat. My first loving kindness retreat Maggie. Happy may be peaceful and I thought of all the awful thing
they didn't. My life is very comment that this happens is a kind of purification and whose, like oh, my god, I can't believe I did that. Oh I believe did that it got so bad. I said: ok, I'm gonna name the twenty really awful things I did in my life and just get Fortunately, I only came up with seventeen, which was the tremendous relief, but what I learned as I cringe each time. I can't believe you did that It occurred to me cringing is really a good thing. It means I'm not that person that I was anymore I wouldn't do those things so, but I didn't know any better, then I was so confused and there was a wave of self forgiveness
genuine self forgiveness. Us, oh gosh, you confused. You are trying to do what you thought was well, you didn't think, It all- and there was that healing and see- I didn't know any better if I could have done it better, I would have- and now I know how Louisa I see another way, yeah I appreciate grounding yet and that because it feels more practical to stand basically to James. You know. First, I was like I'm never meditating Gonna be best, I was my initial after their retreat. That's like this just brings more suffering but then started trying to bypass and say well we're just a heap of foam and saucer anyway. My pain and her is invaluable legislative except some. Such a move but you know in this world is lay people and we have to meet that with the heart
I guess, even if I don't want to die, for the healing really comes in until you, do you're just nothing! You were not one Go there. When you see- oh- yes, oh I see what happened. I see my confusion and their confusion. Perhaps you don't have to go there before you're ready to, but I. Stand and even feeling that pain and like I say, metabolizing it, then there can be a real lying and transforming it into genuine compassion. This has been a great interview, I'm just giving to space in case we miss something or do we feel it. We ve covered everything. I guess wanting that occurs to me is
seeing that we all want to be happy inside. Even those who say why, like being grumpy, that's the stairway of being happy so everything we do, there's something inside of us is really rooting for our happiness and well being and then to get in touch with that very pure place. With you Let the Buddha insider, your true It were the kingdom of Heaven within to get in touch with that. There's this goodness in us that wants to come out, that we, the more we can appreciate and celebrate and listen, listen rather than figure out, listen to the wisdom inside that says, oh, what went wrong. Really be of benefit to me and to the world not just to me
to me and the world, then its listening to the Buddha or Claudia, Jesus by the merry within listening to it and loving the goodness motivate you in whatever you do. Then we will all benefit. And your own well being becomes a gift to everybody else, because it helps awaken that and others as well as Beerus. Thank you very much also thank to Amerika dragging her into the various episodes, but I don't feel guilty, but it all just grateful too big thanks to James and just a plug here. I mentioned this the other day, but come up on the first of October from seven p m to nine p M eastern standard time. Joseph gold Saint share in Salzburg Seventy slashing I will be doing a live stream event. It's a benefit to support the New York in meditation centre and also the Cambridge Insight meditation sender if you want
information, you ve gotta, and why I am see dot, org and search. Your events and to make it much easier for you, we also put a link in the show notes and is always a big stood a team. These people work incredibly hard. They show Samuel Johnson, urging you producer mercy, Schneider mean our producers are sound. Designers are met point and on your sheikh from ultra violet Maria we're tell us, are predicting coordinator I have a lot of wisdom from our Tpa colleagues, such as urgent pliant make Toby than Reuben Levin and, of course, a big thank you, and so to my ABC News College rang Catherine Josh Cohan him we'll see you on Friday. For a bonus. Right now, at this defining moment in America from ABC nurse turning point around making more thanked me all right laden pvc
Transcript generated on 2020-09-23.