For maybe see this is the ten percent happier podcast I'm Game Harris. We backed away from celebrity interviews on the show of late because we get a lot of feedback from listener, saying they are having trouble relating to some of our more famous interviewees. I am confident that this is not going to be the case with today's guest bread. Eldridge may be a big country star six, or one heads, but he is no deal account when it comes to tackling mental health challenges, you're about to listen to somebody who is truly dig in and doing the work. By way of background, I had never personally been a big country pham, but I Brett when he came on the show a few years ago to talk about his onstage panic attacks in general anxiety and after that we struck up a friendship, and I also really started to like his music. I've been so impressed by the rigour with which he has attacked his men.

Well being, and in this interview he really goes there speaking in utterly on guard.

It weighs about how ambition and protectionism have fuels his anxiety, as well as some of his romantic challenges, describing a special kind of therapy designed to address panic attacks and holding forth on the impact that meditation and just loosening up in general, have had on his creativity, as evidenced by his new album, which is called Sunday drive before we get to Brett quick reminder, are free elections. Entity meditation Shoun starts inside the ten percent happier app next week on Tuesday ACT over twenty seventh download. The ten percent happier apt to day join us for the challenge will really excited about this thing. We really put a lot of work into it and by we I mean pretty much everybody else, but me, and we decide to specifically to help you face the commotion of the current election without getting burned out so download the apt to day will see in the challenge. Ok now here we go with my friend, Brett Eldridge, very nice to see you,

thanks for making time you'll see a big country star and show I love it. I told you this was texting with you a couple weeks ago and I told you that our nanny, my son, you know his nanny Eleanor who you ve met. I walk into the kitchen and our house all the time and who's coming out of Alexa bread, Eldridge yeah. I really appreciate I got to meet her and was just really impressed. Insists that sweethearts up, I appreciate still holding shrines phantom. That's she's number one day she going to be so mad at me when I tell go downstairs after this for dinner and tell her that I talk to you about without it, putting her my love, and I will Eleanor and my son and wife and I went to see Brett's Christmas show last year, Pre Covid nineteen was awesome and we got to say

allows so the last time you were on the show. You were really candid about some of the panic anxiety issues that you ve struggle with us as you know, I've struggle with them too, and you and I have spoken about them both publicly and privately. Subject, curious to checking with you now what's new on that front, how are things go on? had turned to go along with that was we did our first per category may recover yours go here. Yes, so am I what has happened since then I was, a boy starting to become aware of the things that were causing me to be some of the ways we know with. My anxieties does, and there was a figured out, but I was turning dailies- gives him good awareness of what would put many situations in it. Patterns, you Know- and I guess, and our last I've had talked Rawhide Darwin anxieties in kind of just

worst case scenario, mine, kinda guy through the years- and I really have allowed, came from the pressures of haven't you deliver every single time and be perfect. I got changing perfection and that thirty me alive. wake up in the mornings I was. weeping, maybe a our tonight, not together getting debating it I'll. Just wasn't just tossing turning and I was running on a bus than highway the times, and I was tat the and then out. I would sit in the back of the Boston. I will sit in the closet on the back of the boss, like this Le Closet, like almost just kind of waiting for the day waiting for the moment I was going to take the stage and I was just brutal time. Then I got a point. Where I would almost pass out of my work on stage and in how we put some pressure must I offer my voice and by when nobody knew that which was crazy.

No one ever knew. Hardly anybody new an hour. He read guns data starts the stars out, do not lose my breath, confront our breath in just a bad place in an I got tired of that and decided to start my journey to try to figure out how to sail a ban since dances years ago, and I was already on that path and steer to we're talking. I started a religion in a better place, but then I decided to take the pressures so far back to our The mega really special record only changed several things. My professional life so changed a lot of things and I I'll ask for media. I gotta flip phone, you meaning no more smartphone. It's just a flop thought, I was just on my I had an Ipad for like email It was like I was walking down the street with my path. I drank forgot, sir, I hardly ever desire that this round easier to use funds. I I was off the grid in a major way, and I said,

where do they go off the grid for how long it takes me to figure out the so who I am. I was ten years ago today the man is on record dealing I've never stop. Since then, I have had an incredible gravitas boy, but I felt like may I left out a lot of myself through this whole journey. I have left out I'm not allowed myself to feel a lot of things. I'm not done with a lot of things that I could have cuz I was just going. I was just doing. Okay, here's the next stage or I just got a number one- was the next one I could forget about it. Just focus on that and not for any other stuff and I started me alive. So I I slipped away said what we really want and this allow me to do to get off the ground and then- and it was really surprising- and I actually her when your heart ass. They can move towards book, digital nationalism, which was something I've got another from a larger about, you know really had her, because I was on search me all the time Call me this knapsack king and, like I was there,

the guy you know for country music area was the guy. That was, I would wake up and do better answer. My hair is almost haven't, seen my phone ever more than a catalyst pressure from doing that, and I was checking all time make sure by was like an intimate if somebody was really mad. If I, One day they eat me alive that I wasn't doing then I started to realize I gotta this step away from social media, from That's not. What I want a dog on my social media time, an enemy came a thing we I was on there all the time you will get mad. If I didn't bring em on stage of justice endless cycle, days or hours like upward, and all these pressure on myself when a dog at that info sir, on this agreement, to be my dog about that, spells the bill. there are. Many was a grey ride with that, but it is. I want to have a dog gotta come home. Just that's the guy. Bosnia Disneyland for me that moment for me in and the scientists have all those things out of the picture and to all those pressures and started

feel, a lot of things, I was gonna therapy during s this really working. I myself in that process of turning down the boy you turning down there kind of going for a long walk in the woods you know I found not only was I starting to feel things and starting to feel kind of connection on myself, while I'm, where I was starting to all these melodies and his legs and his emotions pouring out that way as act. My true sulphur, that I want to create was really turn the show up and not to just. You know how this music be something that I had to run it by a bunch of people to say. Is this cool? because it's the moment you starting a bunch of opinions on it, then you might get yourself away from what you're gone after and so on just me and my manager going through music. I was working, myself and I would just keep syndromes as I recall on my phone, and I was just getting this profoundly different sound of. I truly feel what

fully coming out of my heart and the person that I am because I was really dig deep on those emotions and led him show up and and- and so I think that was China, where I've since then, and now you are in a much better place. You know that the pandemic came along and all sorts of other things in our world where its brought up tough times raw that, but I feel like it the tools, a lot better awareness that at least the old take a better stepped forward and kind of your things. A little better have my bad day still, but a much better place, and I am optimistic going- play music again put out an album in the middle of a pandemic. it was really something. With that. I will do what the in order They assigning I'm grateful to be here to be understood.

doing hopefully to get some music out there that gives people hope and lets them. You know put some things in life into perspective and that's what I want to do my music. So that's where I'm at I have a million questions about the music and the new record in the different approach you took to it that you record Sunday Drive, but let me just stay on the. If you don't mind- and you can bet this away, if you do mind, annexation, anxiety, Tipp. You said you have some bad days still. What is that look like, and how do you deal with it now, as opposed to like these sitting in the closet method? You are using years ago there's a couple bucks that idea. I gotta learn- fear that I found. I told you about before but I'm not afraid to talk about Iraq, monsters I was in an interview, and Scotland, before our kind of really taken this whole journey over there a year and a half ago or two, I was in view upon state

age. I think there's an artist before me interviewing I was jet lag. Is you get as much as I possibly go. Then I was drinking coffee. I was wearing up really heavy jacket, because I've- I just got an new phenomena that was coarse elsewhere and that at the end, but I would like go and I wouldn't their hearts are going there. So anyway, that's gonna, gonna synergy and from a bunch people a pretty good. Reviewing and like. I always felt pretty control now I'm kinda guy, but I forget it These, like I can turn that part myself on internal, offering off stage a beacon of an introverted person, but I can kind of get lit up and go from here. what kind of entertain and I enjoy it- we're gonna onstage, I'm in the middle of interview, preserve small crowd and fry me, and I'm the guy who asked me a question and asked a nice girl, massive panic attack on stage in front of us in all these people, meaning maybe hundred people every year was the Sunday

never have had. A beggar tax was usually like in the mill the night were, does indifference. situations, but never in front of people like that, and so I was you know, I'm not jackets. Of course, I'm sweat like crazy. Our hearts. Raising like crazy get nauseous thing would throw up front all these people. And then the guy asked me a question, when you wrote wanna, be that song. How long was between the moment. You get the idea and when you actually wrote it and I had a whole story about it- He asked me that now, as like we're gonna throw up, RO, I would raise, is replete massive nightmare. My head down a dragoon, always people. I somehow I kind of just answer something and no one realizes. No one knows I have pro the worst moment of my life for one of them in front of all these people. I stumbled through it and I want a in- and I you know, by then I'm gonna have it

living on you now and the next couple show the half of that kind of goes into my shows in it. So press forward What's that goes on I have had to learn now is when I didn't even in interviews like do me right now, I'm fine right now, but I still feel a little bit. I've had some very popular. tv shows you? I had a couple of these because my brain learned that I'm supposed to be afraid that, like in our sudden acres. You scared Ankara's, don't walking towards me these. very well on a friend with us. The pressure was on meal sudden and then I would ever my mind. Remember that, and so for me that The one thing that I am working Now, because I still get it even like it's an interview that maybe no one's ever gonna hear or something one. Also pressure was on me ass, an hour butler Inferior come up, so I've had a really have exposure of certain have children. Things right the show

up and do interviews and like set of whites and have them ass request in all its like fake interview, like a therapy. Yes, that's like cognitive, behavioral therapy, so that's amazing. I've had to struggle with from then on and I'm not afraid, say act even if I still have an anchor people know that and one on tv as such, sending thing to you in your mind- but you also add to my therapist- told to watch it- I wasn't our never even now. I put in your mind. It was like you feel the shaman the other. You had that scared. haven't you and then you watching I I bet you're. There was a bigger store. I really like you- was a worse things up I doubt that an answer that one man network work on now and I've gotten better with it or not perfect area, but I know I get to the point. Words back to where I was it's just taken the work with that, and then you know my bad.

during all this. I found I get so pretty down walls during this time. A lot of us can relate to their anxious. Its moments for I search for connection You know through devices through in our time. Which I had dried up on my phone on a time limit. By still have it more, I'm like yours. I saw that football So I found myself searching for connection as theirs civilian loneliness with what's bonus world at times we feel at last and helpless at times in, and so I felt those heavy down moments and what Help me really is forcing myself out a comfort zone of, sing with it on my own and I have to get active, I have to get out. I have to usually if I get on the phone with a friend or if I go on a hike or something like that. That's held me. Those are the got things on my heavy down days, I have it as I've heard or get out of my head into my life and kind of you don't get out there and nuts.

Not bad weather. what it is not. Let it over run me and it's easier said than done. Sometimes. Sometimes I just sitting Ah then, I feel like get out of it. But I have learned the thing we're on I know I'm gonna get out. That's when one of the biggest things his pride tiger, Meme water years, is it's going to pass This is something that I heard people San Podcast, some different. meditations or whatever I want to started, reason why I got into a now be on the side of it happened. Those times were, I told myself, I'm there get out of this and always ends up going to a place where I have some moments of freedom to right now, and so that's why I try to put my forest, honest this alarm at the bureau. That is sometimes rather than others and right through it in being active in connecting with others.

a different downwards harder connect with others in the same way as you normally used to be able to that's help me, I so interesting over the course of doing this chauffeur years sitting with all of these experts on happiness. Tina meditation teachers in just over and over and over again what you hear shining through the data. The research on happiness is perhaps the most important variable is the quality of your relationships, and you're just obvious Lee when you are in one of what you called the lulls, it sounds like you're instinct is too well. Sometimes your instinct is to reach out somebody I'll take I get on the phone and that that is useful my instinct that I've been time, I'm gonna, just do amount. I, like others, go up and is to be a man. A of them have been used to so long

that's what I've been used to do and I'll get on it. I go to a hotel and do that. I'm in front of people and I will go, and I recluse I got my gun and now so now, I'm really good at that, boy where young variant Verde, but also I get to divert it arrived just stay, Where can I stay in my? resign and even I'm gonna hacking is gone myself where I could just you know, get a friend and go walk out on a hike and and do that or whatever, and so I had to force myself to be like. I know that's going to be better it doesn't mean other times, and myself are good, because that does help me this alone, but I got my myself this. This isn't always a just just go out of my own that the other thing he mentioned was this exposure therapy thing for the pan in this area. Real lights and doing a fake interview. I've done a lot that around claustrophobia, never around stage fright I mean and cause you're in good company or maybe bag company. But, as you know, I too have had paid pretty

famous episodes of state fragment dining out on it for years now. Does that exposure therapy was setting up a fake interviewed? Has that work? For you It's worked. A lot of. I think I think the exporter there beyond have been better for me to this. Do the interview whether out they're gonna, throbbing heart, which is still very, but I really do have I'm a big, they were not really kicks out for me. So nothing and then I focus on that matter. Ready on area. The really close friend of mine reason is Bulgaria, but very close friend of them. and ass in Rome, The studio and out it is getting worse than they did the countdown another five? Fourthly, do one thing and we're about to go live whatever Naomi But I didn't- I didn't I promise you never have died from it. from your enemies. As I was not fondness,

Only by then I got the sirens like I did it. I didn't call a man who say I can't do that cancelling and so you know that's the worrying brain somehow Brown it's gone head on and every morning I get up around on the window shower. I write be bold and I put my handprint like I'm, making a promise to myself the people and show up there all that Do you not through those kind of moments in there just haven't This kind of intentions I wake up. Is Burma jerk. For me, that's gonna get the spigot thing for me, but being borders scarcer but it's also it's also superpower. If you can get yourself to do it, I was just going to say that I was teaching my son who you've met my little boy Alexandria's v. I was teaching swim a couple months ago and I kept saying what what's the definition of bravery and I got them to be able to internalize and repeat being scared and doing it anyway.

Absolutely- and I feel like I have always pills, though the girls I too will be aware. I mean nothing now. If you start, I bet you always had then like valuable, but it might be programme into your love it to where you find yourself in the middle of that, and I think that what I said in the data scare me more like up up after, but there's maybe loving, alas one, but I went skydiving when I was really scared of heights. Really scared, pilots, Romany job airplane, still hated it. I really hated it like to the point where I would definitely never do it again behind that I did it inside I've got the more. I learned that you re with those being brave to show up and being scared, because Do you not scared of UNESCO? self a decent amount of time. Probably does not really gonna a lot exciting things a gas. not me, I don't want to go. The Ex games gathered.

going to go, try to do all the craziest stunts, but I mean I feel like I'm trying to get myself to that place, and I don't give myself enough credit for dinner cuz. I tried to do it, but I'm trying to push myself to really make sure that they was going to be, but also, if it's like most likely to be fine from this and I'm going to go for it. I love it. I don't mean this in a patronizing way, but I can't feel just proud of you. When I hear you talk about You really are not shirking the work here. There was a word you used early on in this conversation, as it pertain your anxiety and panic that real resonate with me, and if I'm gonna play arm chair psychologist right now, a kind of set off my and ten a little bit and wondering whether this could be short of a cause or a route to some of which have experienced the,

were you use was perfection area, and so I do wonder whether you think I'm onto something there in terms of that being linked to your anxiety and panic, concern for me and where you are at with that now after having done a significant amount of work on yeah, had there been perfection for me, is my worst enemy. and also has got me a meal made me very successful. In some ways, do you always like I've, never reached perfection, but I have push myself to try to reach it at times. Where do you know the many work hard? try to get to that point, but it also warn me up at the point where, once I Finally realize you can ever reach it. I was too poorly burnt and they perfection in every single thing I do in my life from you know, recording sound, being on Stage America point where I was on stage.

The biggest reason, I was worried about going to stay just cuz, I feel like I'm gifted in a way where I can sing live like I can send in my records a lot of time, and I ve been told that a lot were now. I think I got it. It's gonna sound like other records, if not better on stage or I'm not gonna write, you know those are the pressure and myself. Say an arm and the Doktor Danvers, Mr Scope working am I throw away what's wrong accords and as a worn out. His arm points stress and everything on it. I never leave intact, I about that. I about that. I'm not scared of that, but it was us putting too much pressure myself, I'm so uptight Why so much stress in my neck muscles on my shoulders and everything there. Clauses on his muscles and it doesnt giving money where to go so you're wearing your goes out like right away side. Would like one son, Be wearing it out now, some people went even always now cause I'm trying to just hey said the little man, my mine, I'm still banking

on an hour. I'm allowed to have, you know you're playing every single night, marijuana nights in Rome. I had again Ok, myself, haven't times, or you know, my voice is not going to perfect tonight or is lacking you're amazing tonight, I'm not gonna hit all the notes the term a long time ago. That point when I started yet there and I actually started, engage in the show asian, when I was instead of just I was like for none of the max them. Why not go like trying to stay alive up their attacks, still known, really knew, and I could still have moments a fine, but there is a period arguments. There were hours just trying to make it through a show and once I can start on this journey start to realize, embraced the imperfections, and that's that some of the stuff that The most about love music is that it doesn't sound decide the records are that somebody screws up and are actually human onstage, and I bet that part of the perfection. I think you know I'm supposed to be up there and be the provocation.

Love. You know why you loved my music handle. It's gotta, be just like that. Once I realized friends don't want that. That is what you anywhere in life. People don't want you to be pervert. They want you to be you and once I started figured that out. I started work in the eyes of my drummer and feel that groove alot, more and golden or migratory player in this laughing and actually feel in the joy and just that feeling connecting with the fan. Like I remember I was working on my when I would give my head space. I was working on that their wits about this and there he said, go out there and actually connect with somebody think really in the crowded. You think really needs show that needs this moment, get it out of your mind and got there. These people are there to see you and that's why I started. Do I started but my fans around my head start to go to a man. I got a lot more sounds f and I'm pretty tired. Just stand there and why not go and on the next day and I'm going out there and I'm region out, I'm connected with them in a crowd in those things

facing all those things and embracing the imperfections in the show corrections in our, according even with special, this new album and not trying to fix boggles aware. by saying that exactly riding on the recording level of my friend recordings are kind of some of them they may not hair exactly on, but many feet you feel a lot more than their spot on. Sometimes in that The soul is in an amused the artist, and so that really were. Am I not fully got there, but I am definitely gets bar that and when I get back into those patterns that maybe you knock as you're going to have some re visits to those things from time to time. I know that I have. I have this mindset. I have the people care about me and I have the people that just want me to be an artist and personally I am and family progress on that a grounds me back to justice, bread and not. You know that

picture on the wall that you think it has to be perfect in some of that, you look up to you, look up to him. Cuz they're real and you relate to him and that's that's why I've had to get your very tall meta, look up to you and work together and I ll answer for it. The the I just have to wonder if I dont know the country world very well enough, never admitted this you before, but before I met whenever really listen to any country or nor did I like it, but and I started to like you and then not now, I really like your music. How does it? go down in the country world for you to be talking in the way in which your talking I super open, super honest. I love it. I am just floored by dynasty, but is risky. I hope that I have is This point I want to talk now, because I just thought I mean should I grew up in a town, parasol, Paris Illinois like thinking about any kind of mental.

A man, amazing, childhood Maisie parents may be family about very fortunate, but didn't know about any that stuff and for me I can had to start living through a lot of tough. For my lived, her sorry eyes in what I was. through with brute overnight I see it all around me and I couldn't live that way more of this, acting like everything's, maize and music. in general. I am here very lotta honesty, no one, small towns. I really am water. True as people, but I think this in general and all me, we can all everything people are starting to speak out about which gives you more strength about their intelligence. I wanna be one as people there opening up alarming. about it and because I just know how much itself gone through but how much better it feels other people going through and that it does get better, get worse load

when I get back to normal, it's gonna be there with you, but this Ruggles are are the things have really IRAN the horizontal, Sandra there. The things it made me way stronger and weigh more because I became aware of this and support, so I guess Lazo sure yeah this If it is a thing to be risky that I'm glad I'm taking a risk, because I wanna be a voice out there, that I helped build through it and then one day, everybody's mediterranean area. He's been kinder gentler to each other and sharing compassion and fine and loving kindness for each other, and you know that It's a long journey itself, but I have a little bit. Voiced in there and I don't want to miss out on that. I want to help him, so I'm gonna take them and I think there are a lot of other order centre and of doing it wasn't like on the first whenever I just want to be one that doesn't and I'll take them. All day from here out and hopefully even more so as I continue to grow

my journey in trying to figure it out and very fortunate to make relations. Like I with you in and our people that have now been entered, a business and had their struggles in an friends that work it. in banking that have had their struggles in the same way in the United States is really fascinating any start to realise that the anxieties in the front those are the most human thing that there is and what you see. That gives you a power to act and act with a lot of people. You mentioned meditation and I dont want to be a meditation bully. So this is not a pass fail question here, but are you still meditating and if so, how they're gone four or five? There we guileless, if I stay away, one in a movie on Friday night or something then, often heard in the next day and the weakened the pillar gonna fall urging the same, but I do pretty go further, still kind of try to forget the things. I work better

and what don't work for me in and sometimes it's guided. Sometimes it's put on a timer and listen you know and just kind of focus on sounds very feeler Some sensitive, personal waterways were sometimes focusing so much on the breath. I'm thinkin, I didn't give my full breadth. Then they re today. I just need to focus on sounds some guy, just always trying to figure out what the best thing for me, but I still show up and I try to do the work in and sometimes still feel like I don't know what I'm doing most almost always I set off like an often do, but I had this trying to do the repetition of it in an amusing, better, after I did, I'm gonna get it, and even if I only have thirty seconds of that ten minutes had that I actually cut myself in some thinking. Listen yes, I'm always ruminating, and trouble shut that often I just realized. I showed up at his hat to see that I'm in

in the middle of it and go back to our focus on my brother. What's out there in nature, do allow I've been my hikes. I do like the more the walking meditations to which I have enjoyed, because it makes me here more in awe of what I'm around India is beautiful, like nationals this beautiful in I got every morning on hikes and up on guided walking me asian related underground trees and actually seen his things are actually feeling my feet. touched: the ground and am actually I'm here. I'm actually doing this instead of Sunday they're gonna happen on. I realise that his walk before from his own. I was doing the entire tat. They have. It's gotta work, I'm trying to strengthen those. up and get better meditation but out, but I'm trying to show up still above had a few walls. If it a few moments where I get for furthermore, the butter

definitely gain more than have lost out of it. So I know that I said to keep on giving a shop much more. My conversation with bread, Eldridge right after this staying involved has never been more important. Information is coming in us faster than ever. So how do you make sensible start here? I'm bread milky from ABC News and every week days we will break down the latest headlines in just twenty minutes: straightforward reporting, dynamic interviews and analysis from experts. You can trust, always credible, always solid start here from ABC News. Twenty minutes every week, smart speaker or you further podcast app. I think I can say something that might alleviate any frustration you experience to help for which is that, when I heard you describe your meditation practice to me, it sounded per

now I use that word very carefully because striving for if is the enemy of meditation, it is inherently imperfect, but what I you say: was you have moments where you wake up to the voice you're at it realized. Oh, it's just that's this nattering voice inside my head. I can drop it and go back to my breath or back to the sounds or back to the feelings. The raw data of my senses, as I walk through the four that is meditation and over and over and over again by in this confrontation between you and the nonsense that No, the voice in your head offers up. That is the point. There is a great meditation book called who ordered this truck load of dung That is what you see over and over and meditation a code of dung

yet is like an amazing, but I also said that he was a robot. It's a real book, now the author on so anyway, that's a lie, way of saying keep going. That sounds great me about my main struggle with it. Sometimes time limits I got bigger David kind of ongoing I'll get trapped in the version I get trapped in the because his dinner, maybe it's I can't The thing about something with my own that I'm really been working hard on that I keep my figure it out and it's kind of a whole thing and lasting for a few weeks. I can really get figured out when I wake up thinking about it and go to bed me about it. My way, thing with that is sometimes I stay in that for a while and that's what I've been working with is trying to just be ok is going to be there. You know and that's going to show up- and I remember a tip from one of your meditations about asking you. This is useful in that's. Helped me a lot this animals up as its useful,

and when I do that, the further now they have used? As always I mean you know the kind of question certain things but usually requesting a million nine times, you ve already very plain, recently on your head to the boy were like This doing me a yellow and is making me more wound up in more tents and more asleep, listen, more aggravated and irritable and more short of breath, and now you're gonna me heads up a beggar catch myself, that's what I'm workin on now is is sitting with that in a number of the growing whether rather keep going. so you mentioned the Sunday the new record? So it's interesting to me these you made. We ve been talking about risks, is another risk, you had gotten famous, first sort of kind of like party, anthem, country staff, some of them

songs were you know what I wanna be that song and I guess it's love somebody or drunk on your love. Like the the was like good time music. if it had a romantic overtones and you went in a pretty different reaction. I read an interview. You gave to rolling stone, actually a great interview, and you said that you told yourself. You are not allowed to use the words damn or girl in your lyric and I was Maya my manager, and I really does. I reckon is really trying to get a more kind of real another issue. That was a real, but I feel like I grew up, really are in his arm. Making rigorous alum instead of singing I love song, because it's going to relate every single person. I want to see if it's a love song, I want to be more reliable to what I'm really actually live. In my You know I'm not in love, never been like deeply Am I opened the idea that finally got it.

plays in my life were given myself enough credit to be able to be that person Somebody you now tell me a while to get to that, and I was call the one you need that like. Let me be the one you need. I've spent most of my life in love us outreach, maybe just as well She could be the one I need. If you let me be, the one needs like open myself up the idea. Okay, I'm here the b that foundation for somebody. Instead of this being, like when you love and drought regretted the sun's gummy here, and there are still There are many. There is your allotted time or Nessa love what they do. Is they love to sing a song? and other energy of it, but I thank getting to this point. Record? Were I'm not trying to write a sound, just causes the head or just because I think this is what everybody secure here all to because it means something extremely only to me in a deep way back. It's that honest, that everybody else is gonna, hear the heart and that every becomes a heads, because it's that

who is real. It's that wrong and the honesty right right, chase down, and this and and the squire do you know you? Can I please change aware, may my record from other changed evolve right and with that everything that had some of the people that had ridden with other records, but I always want to try to grow and the fact that I was wrong in such a my purse, Less well really. This outcome actress better, I'm out front in the risk of that was everything to lose. If I didn't take the step, I think of my mind If I don't get, I mean I can continue to put out sounds? Are you now this in my mind, and I were really get inclination for what I think are its eyes and I really love right. It sounded also still nicotine of its arms, but focus just on that. The risk is enough the things that I was then be myself up there all the time and unapologetically and now is the time,

If someone else tell me all I don't know, this is gonna work and it doesnt really know is now. Nobody else is there. Now is like one ass started really our fallen trends, but better in that. I am uniquely myself actually have an people around. You do found that the support bat mission you know took take that risk and step up there and say in our work in your report, an album in Chicago with dismay in a couple of musicians and Africa We live in Chicago and make this music in and when when you live in music city, as the anger front door and I could write down the stream me recording, studio and amazing place, but I the different wins the wound. Had ever lines on my wife and looking at it had ever where you get a different way. every aspect easy to give up on yourself in that process. Cuz. It gets scared at times and then I was out in California and I, when I started this I got my crazy and am I

Am I going to make this thing I'm going to tell people I'm going to go, make something really special and I come back in a year and a half. Ah gremlins, you know your mind. gotta go. You haven't made some weird arts erected herself in sight but I really I just with them. A manager was right there with me. and my level is right behind me. I got people there were really in it for now because This is gonna, be you know, we're gonna have for number one on this album wherever you around something really important to say: it's gonna be unique. Lay myself people behind you in that way. The one. For me, I've got a lot more meaning in two behind I feel like I'm, I'm in like I said, I wasn't a fraud from what it was before Mugabe here and I think it all is growing up to a place where I can actually get them. the record like this, and I want to be able to make the record that I made on this one when I first came

Now, with my record on my first out, and I think that each writer got deeper and now I finally to really take that step and seven, I think I'll get to be seen for many years. A common, and this really Fiona and embracing those perfections like atomic as well, You are quite a record like this. I was the studio where, in Jack, whose producers and Dale passion is producing a robust. The record with those guys and they're playing in the room with me. I've seen on the mark. In the same room with them, so for people at our know how music recordings is much the vocal bleed sometimes like the dry bloody into the microphone off your singing on the same microphone in the room, together drums on your microns, so not a clean, sound. Sometimes it's really honest it's really real and- and I never would have done it before seeing a raw to the boy

We cannot go back and fix it, because the drums render MIKE and everything in your voices in the drums and also you gotta, never believe the nail in that's when I, when I put the further myself, do then had now. People buy me said near very capable of timing, Ah, I showed up in the first hour accorded with Sancho Gabrielle with my personal from it. and we need it to the point where the first take. It was amazing, like all that weight and like all those doubts and actually them. I believe in yourself and stick into that made aware that ever that's bread he's Nashville. He can't he can't hear you, but he says hello So how can you say number one member when he sang to the Christmas Aung San Diego funding was

next year. Maybe we'll do it again next year after covered, would do it again. Okay, tat, though he dinner I'll, see you in a minute every time and here I love every is already grown up and here he is grown up every time he comes in here he had boxes mates, just unbelievable I think he's saves it until we lose time. Visit that in part has got moving the strong it's pretty arable. So I want to ask of you on the record you you were talking about them, I heard you were saying you know you over time. You ve recorded love, songs, but you ve never been in. I think you used the term deep love and I just wonder to pick up on a theme that we ve been exploring throughout this conversation. Does perfection, stand in the way of love, for you absolutely huge were that's been

a heavy target. Work that trend right now is: yes, absolutely perfection is said unaware of everything, especially in love and relationships in everything has been the top part for me. So I and now I am very aware that I'm gonna way better place with that, but absolutely as devils tonight. You know. Another thing you said was growing up on this record and it is for my may be. For me, perfection did stand in the way of finally achieving romantic love and I think perfection is a big problem, not only in getting up and running in a relationship, but also keeping their relationship up in because we're sort of in this arrested stated development sold this bill of goods by the media. Hollywood about how love supposed to be, but it's not really like that of a friend of mine. Remember when I was first get married and friend of mine said

it's not the Oscars every night, some nights, the people's choice awards you, and that is true, and but the other thing you say was a grew up, and I just reminded me, I remember, being like twenty five and haven't a break up conversation with a girlfriend. She was saying will, until you are with yourself, you can't be with anybody else. Yeah. What's a great born, the journey up and running on is just being with myself a little better, like the spinning diamond myself in our alone, like God, but I actually also disappear like you, myself, some self love and actually feel like. I can give a lot of myself of it being in this position. You know I've learned it have some trust issues, gonna weird like date or anything when you're this production, I don't like the same part of anything, so I feel very soon. I love a girl one stage and saying- and I said you know, I love to connect with people and everything

but when I get outside I just the part of the flame is definitely been a weird part. For me about dating and everything and and the pencil an interesting thing for me is I always feel like I'm supposed to be giving some perfect picture Somebody else how do I know it been aware an extra hands? I guess I can imagine that they really tough, like you find yourself questioning people's motive is the person with me because they like me because they like that, you know what I do. You want some of their love, your passion and trust me, why there are no people. This era I too believe that they really actually do dislike you just at the back of my head and had a really work away from the idea of thanking somebody wants to hang out. As I love you know- during your music and in all that, somehow to really step away from that its very the very strange thing, this being somebody that I still in my mind and the gas sprite, a people,

As I said I, I am exactly I kinda before at any heads rowdy, thereby knew that I was, I still feel exactly like them my hand, so when you, when people start screaming your name I'll, you love that connection the crowd and everything you got that forever the bar words like the image on the street or something you then there I take a thorough and Amelia mail or something I'm terribly fire they use it, but I just wish to make is that I still have to get used to that such distress in saying the Gonna have that suffer from when you actually and stayed and then actually I'm going to the dining room are actually trying to find love or wherever this is financing I spoke, but I really do believe you know now. myself with this time and spend this time a really open myself up to the idea that you know I got a lot to give to somebody. It says a good honest, real person, and you know be kinder to myself in a tough time

has obviously how those perfections over you said. I gotta be something really pervert for somebody yards Urim, dinner, slimy, great and so on. Can I perfection your otherwise even more the perfectionism today, that's good! That's what I'm working on it free therapy, it's worth when you're paying for it. Unfortunately, so last question just put on the record that in many ways the centrepiece of the record from what I can tell just as a fan is the title track Sunday Drive and a really landed with me because it starts talking about the EU being a kid taking Sunday as with your parents driving and that it ends with a Sunday drive, with you driving and the parents in the back seat. I had experienced recently with aging parents, and it's very painful a poignant and quite literally being the guy in the front, seat, drive and my parents now and so

yeah they're really landed for me. I just- and I know that you actually I read- that you kind of broke down while recordings so I would be interested to hear that whole story, so song when the sun actual, road every record except us all, and the story about the sounds very soon, because I was an intern, add up music publishing Company Universal Publishing back in the day. and you know you just taking this internship- you wanna get to know, songwriters going its know how this crazy, music, This works I was listening to you All the signs of organ in, like a dungeon looking out, I mean it's not that scary looking, but it was like a a basin with no windows. They had a bunch of cities and Datsun. I got them daily at transport mp3s and I was just going to rally songs and, unless you know know twenties than does

enamored by songwriters, but you didn't numbed the science to learn in a thousand sound, an alarm or grey by you. This listening you now as your job to wear them, Son came up Sunday driver, we live destroyed buyers My young sub always got old soul and the outbreak pause. My family in the song to stop me my tracks, and I very much do you know I take my family the core when they everywhere I go, and so the thought of you now being the key in the back seat in life. Never gonna lies all yours, this way in times like enough, why? By and you this backsliding ice cream, and could you don't work? new spilling yourself and you are aware you'd. Do you notice word by going to the fair, and you know what I mean I M going your baseball practice or whatever next thing. You know you're high school in your flight on the winter you're about to go off to college and you're thinking, that's never going to go, and then the next thing you know as our degen you on Sunday drive

beginning when you're thank anything was special about that. You are taken Listen, I drive and Emma Branch or still young buddy. You know. Inevitably, like we're all gonna grow older. You start to feel, then you can start to feel the fragility of time and when I get through that third version, the sign in the studio and promotional guy, but it always is like breakdown cry thing: it's just that I'm very emotional way talk a lot of times- browser regular hiding at times to watch. I'm learning tonight is much worse. I'm in the studio. My friend David Raw, Sousa now a measure. The Cubs united became friends the years and he was in town and use Kinraid, in an interview for the causes of use energy, as he has a few kids, so he's a father in the book. when I produces another room he's in the birth. He's got three kids Amazon, but bigeye plan. Piano has come

here there is very family- aren't in this room. Everybody in this way emotional about how the stones gonna go down Oh, I got in the room because we try to at once before reported, sent a dry and we distant quite now it so I told him friend David away when I reported ever come on animals. We are real each other, my provision, as I think we so we went in there as I could get me. We're gonna go Today I go in there, but he's playing appeal I'm seeing it down, live we get down to that their birth and is completely lose at its last it, like I mean, You know distorted picture my mom and dad I started feeling, every single word from that song so emotionally so deeply and I started bawling and I think I could even look up. But when I finally looked up, I saw the piano player in Fiji still playing and he's so emotion,

They still point through it and I came and say word, but I'm also so blown away, but if I did you stop lying in the motion is still the music that he point all the through the rest, the song and allocated in the other room and the boot. Where are you know, these other fathers advantages on producers in and they're all so emotional. In our view, it is wise man. What's your man, music is such a day when you were somebody I have a letter? Go there it'll take you there, you don't make you feel in it'll shift something in you in theory, goes even cable, like sobbing crying in my adult life. For a long time and Man I did and then we were back in there. I say that I find the guy myself going up to signal Asperger's agenda and we have taken in that, and I think that this came across if you feel when you listen to have you watch the video Dallas a I had to shift again. I watched it. I broke

crying as I was driving smoothly in the parking lot of a juice place, I think, that accurate bill neck as I've learned piano just for this and then really play in October I'm piano during quarantine, We can learn a son, a piano voice, animal learn how to play on stage when we get out of quarantine out to do a German. I forgot to beg pardon my routine. wind out of my phone, the room. I want a drink. Some hot came out here and sit down a piano play temper demands the song. Now go to bed and by the time I got to report this video? I could actually play the song. Canada's are all came again, during all this in and that emotions came out again when I saw a video and as is the really special sonic gonna, be the heart of this out, because the APS very reflective and kind of reflective of the path taken it to get here It's very real and honest and after the sounds a good place

and again you know heartbeat for love, it's a great song and it's a buddhist song in many ways about impermanence. So yes, as absolutely as a consequence, Bread every time I interact with you, I, like you better, will say here my room. I hope we can we get together. They referred to on shouted again last year we were, we were jamming in the beacon, theater together, and I do have the beliefs that, on the other side of this we're going to do that again and it's always a pleasure. My friend, I share that belief and it was absolutely a pleasure and I really appreciate your just out early on- I did, and I respect you, for it will coaching for the years into the. I appreciate that that you get for free forever. So as long as you take it with a grain of and

it's about the mass of better. They thinks about really appreciate him come on. and check out as new album Sunday. Dr again, I've never been a country, but I really like your stuff- and I really like him so thanks again to him and a quick reminder. I mentioned this at the tablet mentioning it at every opportunity these days, but join us for the election sanity meditation challenge download the ten percent happier app and start meditating your way through the final stages of this election season, and then the challenge begins on October, twenty seventh big thanks as always to the folks who worked so hard to make the show a reality. Two and a half a week, Samuel Johnson, our senior producer mercy, Schneider Men is our producers are sound designer is met bulletin from violet audio Maria we're tell us our production coordinator. We get an enormous amount of useful input from GPA colleagues such as Jen Point, then Reuben, Nay Toby, unless Levin

a big thank you to my guys from ABC News, Ryan Kessler. George co hand will soon on Friday, with a bonus meditation from to wear a salon. And now a message from our friends at Disney Plus. Thank you for coming series returns to Disney plus have been questioned, covering this one back to its current. This is no place for a child. Wherever I go, he goes experience the next chapter streaming October, thirtieth away the mandatory and new season screaming to return. He is only on Disney plus