The filmmaker and co-creator of the TV show "Billions" talks about his practice of Transcendental Meditation.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
It is then hear it. I am fidgety skeptical news man who had a panic attack live on good morning. America- led me to something I always thought was ridiculous meditation. I wrote a book about it called ten percent happier started an app. and now I'm launching this podcast to try to figure out whether there is anything beyond ten percent basic Here's what I'm obsessed, can you an ambitious person and still strive for enlightenment whatever. That means hey it's Dan. Our guest today or my guess today. I guess I can say it's. My guess, who I just kind of like my show, is Brian Kaufman. He is the creator of the new show on Showtime held two billion, which is a great show if you're not watching, you should be here. it also recommends movies like rounders, which is called Classic Oceans thirteen runner runner he's also- and this is important, given the contact. Meditate her and meditation shows up really prominently in billions wherein
First episode, you see two of the main characters. What is a hedge fund billionaire or the other? Is the Eu S attorneys out to get em both of them meditate, o Brien fetched covenant? Our share my my real pleasure to be here. I just met your government. Is clarity really like you ve, never liked best. We could be friend right. We actually could be friends. We have the same drunkard that I can't there is the Boucher where my office, I should say, the beginning where my office was the first time we're doing a pike s in my office and I have electronic drunk it. Delay That makes me look seven. Five thousand times cooler than I actually am, because the truth is, I've never played it because until the day was blocked up by like boxes in pictures which, in in in anticipation your arrival. We actually hung up the pictures. I just love the idea, if you have it because it says something about exactly the right kind of aspiration for how you want to spend your daily. Even if you never can the idea that possible. You put the headphones on crank up
back in black and try to play it any of his at ABC News is also, but doesn't it then a kind of suggests that I'm like really not into actually working notes the right kind of Chile right premeditated. It's the right kind of silliness its. I think the sort of data That is really a good thing and no, I think no question that you need in any kind of hard endeavour? That requires a certain kind of focused creativity, the unity to blow up the exact kind of steam that playing the drums allows you to blow off is probably should be real iron. It shouldn't be something you have to excuse. I just lovey is added a sheen to my distract innocent laziness So little asylum of education has brought it up and because this all shows about meditation, you, as I said, the two main characters right in the pilot. Are your seen meditating one age, fungi and the other is a? U S attorney. Why did you have your character to do this? I am pro
a few different reasons story wise in character wise it make. That's because, as you do even a little research into the world of high performance in New York, Greenwich Westport people you find that their chasing there they are chasing. If, if If not inner peace, there chasing a kind of coordination as performance enhancement. One of the key things that they seem to look too is a meditation so that from it, fits the world and its true to the World Dave, and I are developing as my creative partner. He and I Both the practice, transit, imitation and so address or address orders through our creator is well. He all does meditation, though, maybe have to ask him
Tommy's tm either. Those tm recently has antium and so when we have found tremendous benefit in it and would go to events in New York. Occasionally, watch people speak, look, at the ways in which people are using meditation now and with this idea that or there isn't it, he will carry around that. it'll necessarily make you a kind of person or a general or person or a more giving person. I mean infected and even promise Auntie em, They make none of those promises that a few more of the best of what you are, is what they promised regimes. An idea really did really fits the hedge fund, world and the world of prosecutors. Who are driven by the kind of ambition that our characters are driven by two there. I want to talk at length about what meditation does for you
but there are a lot of people and I hear from them who are critics of the growing popularization, slash commercialization of meditation and the idea, that masters of the universe and people who are complete would be using meditation not to make themselves better kinder people. But themselves better at what they already are. For example, your: U S attorney character play by Paul D, Amato, you see a meditating and in the next seeing he threatened to put his father in handcuffs and arrest him. So this This is not making any kind of person unless his baselines incredibly low. So what is Europe thought you say I love you daddy. Does he d write? I worry. I rise more either. I loved it. Add, MR that's a minimum aid of integrating detail, but do youth? Do you have any problem is a guy who meditates with people using many?
Asian just to make themselves more effective. Even if they're gonna be actors in the world, how should they use it? Well, can we you do not, unlike other with anyone, using anything to be a bad actor and in the world right, but I mean some. could decide to drink a cancer kilcullen go, get all hopped up and something bad, but look. Meditation is a tool so and it's a really effective tool, and so someone's going to use the tool to be more to me to be more of what they are to help them in their own aims. Now. Is it possible but if you really pursue meditation and you are Don T, I M, so you doing it forty minutes a day that. perhaps some thoughts or some feelings of calmness or that your quarters all levels will adjust to place where, you're just naturally a little less hair trigger yeah
that be nicer for the people around you, yes, but I dont have. I dont think that there is a value, positive or negative in terms of societal good to any of these things. Theirs. a societal value to yoga verse, it is doing spreads or to bottom right. It just has certain acute eastern accoutrements that makes a make us think. And that it must be a more peaceful somehow. I don't necessarily think that that's that's the case that look. There's philosophy you could read alongside a meditation if you want their town of other things you can do, but what I found it to do for many people is just make them more. They are so our true like it more distilled version, it's possible that I disagree with you, but what I wanted out loud. I don't understand how? Yes, you can help me, I'm not only I'm not sure to move figure before. I think that I think it might be useful to define terms because,
your time, transatlantic meditation, which is the carpet type of meditation you do, and just just for the uninitiated. I should explain that transit annul meditation is derived from Hindu ISM and it was popular, a basically invented. If you want to use that word by the maharajah, hush Yogi that mean that name may be familiar summer. Listener such viewers because he was the guy who was for prepared a time. The spiritual guru, too, recently well known rock band, known as the Beatles you gotta a rocketed to global fame. As a consequence of that, so he was tat. He was teaching transcendental meditation. which again is basically form of Hindu, meditate, in which uses a mantra which is a silent word, you repeat yourself and as you repeat this word yourself, often in conjunction with your breath, you can achieve its level of concentrated absorption. That allows you to shut out the discursive thinking, mind and can put you in touch with
a sort of levels of calm and even bless, and maybe even creativity that here too forward well. You know you're not chasing bliss in TM as your meditating right, one of the one of them sort of central tenets of GM. Is that What happens in that twenty minute period, the way in which, you perceive what happens doesn't really matter so that I am not looking for a blissful state. All I'm looking to do is say that monster myself and if thoughts com, Can I make it, they can exist and then they'll move past and I keep saying the moderate. But what happened to me and I'm not a spokesman for tm emanate from an atheist and unlike a hard core atheists, And one of the first things I said when I went to talk about learning this was that the court like aspects of any organised, meditative group freaked me out
You know you don't have to believe in any sort of ideas. They came from. Hinduism, you don't have to believe if the Mari she had tapped into some mystical thing at all, but he you can look at aside, the e? U can we, the e g, as you go to the scientific studies that show what happens to quarters all levels when people do this or blood pressure at blood pressure record levels of inherit all these things that that just happen, and you know the controlled studies I mean. I know you ve gone through this stuff, but You know if you just sit quietly for twenty minutes. There some benefit to that and breathe. But if you said quietly, I repeat, a mantra adding there are more tangible benefits that are greater than if you don't
For me it was a salve for and a way to control anxiety, and I found that the physical manifestations of anxiety, just dissipated by about eighty five or ninety percent and so that was a gigantic life change to not get feel a fluttering stomach to not get stress? Headache were you a J J. I jus in agony, pretty good well an atheist but I am a g I mean I guess I was raised. Jewish and actually, I guided make their term up with some years ago, for when Yes, when, when fashion The leader comes to power, decides to kill the Jews. He'll kill me whether identifier as Jew or not. So yes, I guess I buy that definition. I am name
whatever the anxiety of our being someone China make a living in show business or more the point I like up apparent, who loves his kids? any kind of outsize worry that I might have, it doesn't mean, I dont still have concerns rudder and old. Still worry as we all do. I don't I must tell the wherever they come in a Finn, existential situation we find ourselves in, but the physical manifestations, the action all sort of way that I walk through the world and feel changed? attic em out when I started meditating after probably three weeks of meditating show just back. You deserve a clarification of terms when I ascribed to him. I've never really done to him. So when I described it that I described more or less accurately get twenty minutes, you twenty minutes twice a day. The astonishing
up in the morning and that at some point in the afternoon before dinner, I said quietly close my eyes and repeat a mantra for about twenty minutes and so the difference in this this sort of cut goes back to what I was saying before about how maybe I disagree with you, but I want to get to talk it out. It encourages that the car meditation. I practice is called mindfulness meditation, which is derived from Hinduism, but from Buddhism. Actually, to be honest with you, I'm a Buddhist riper, but that kind of means more and less than you might incoming io view. Buddhism is a religion, it is practices religion by some people, but I believe Buddhism is something to do not only to believe in, and I too, I wouldn't know of the comments of an atheist, but or like a respectful agnostic, so I dont believe anything. I can't prove, although I'm willing to entertain other people's arguments on behalf of those unproven metaphysical claims So in Buddhism, in
The argument is that you should that there is an ethical component, but the effort the interesting thing about, It is not a finger wagging at the component that it is that if you act like a jerk when I let us we're here, so they use the words I would use. Otherwise I can't use act like a jerk. It screws up your meditation practice because it's very hard to concentrate when you are trying to keep your lie straight or dealing with a matter so large round. As I sat on the show, there are there's a moment in the show couple: episodes in where Damien Lou it's our version of of the king trying to plant a trying to pray and in Hamlet, which is not a strictly buddhist text, but I think has the same idea: Universe had to write a hamlet and, and so when the demon character body. Axelrod is inevitably tight spot. He is
trying to meditate can't and you see it so. Yes, of course, your life please in to your meditation brag. Instrumentation brag is please in your life, but what I would what but I dont like is the fake spirituality that gets grafted onto this kind of practice, so that people? I don't agree with this idea that if you meditate, you will become a better person, a more spirit, a person whatever that means. For me, it's simple are like the more I can reduce this stuff down and still it this morning. Make things simpler, it basically breathing with some stuff attached to it. The primate, you feel better if it makes you feel better, maybe be nicer people when that be great
but I don't think you can say it's going to make people nicer. It's like you know what, if you have lessons anxiety and less most people given less stress, less anxiety, clearer thought are going to act like better versions of themselves, but I don't think you can promise it. I think I was. I would agree with that like eighty eight percent? I would give that a huge amen you- and I would say, is that there is a difference between an idle full Anderson Because again I don't know enough about him to speak about it with authority to be clear about that. But my interest any. But the difference between Tm Unmindfulness is that mindfulness goes with extreme prejudice at mindfulness, which is lowered, emotional reactivity and While I believe there is a huge Michael, this component to two p m, because every time you what does that you're thinking and you you just noticed-
These are just ass, you, my name, I much less reactive at an early, because you see that the voice in your head is just like just a compulsory and I look at the age easier than mindfulness lights up these certain. The brain that a targeted towards empathy and TIM lights up. Oh, why of a broader area. So it includes that area, but actually fires other things as well. Yeah, many friends of mine practice mindfulness What what do you do that practice as opposed to GM or one of the other, the science, there is definitely some science around TM at that appears to be quite good. I mean it. Look I think in all I draw meditation needs to be delivered with big grain assault because it's in danger at times being hyped because it really in its early stages but having issue DEC I think most of the science has really been done around my fulness and
surely what I like about marvellous meditation was, it is, is really thoroughly secularized, whereas TM is associated with sectarian organization is promulgated by the Marinucci, and so for me as a pretty hard core I was raised by scientists, I'm married to a scientist, my phone, the seems like the more interesting thing. Also. I was reading a lot about Buddhism and I thought that the philosophy to serve intellectual infrastructure of Buddhism was really compelling. So I was also onto Buddhist meditation yeah, but I'm not snobbish about it. I actually think mental exercise of whatever ray you choose should. You should do you. I just knew I needed technology. I needed some access to it. Auntie em, I had friends who done it. Friends might introduce me. No Barbara Thrones, David Lynch Foundation, I'd read David Lynch, his book really cash in a big way.
And his book really spoke about the connection between his art and meditation in a way that was incredibly compelling and and a few other things Russell Salmon's book as well. Russell who lived is really big. and a crazy life really. So huge changes and became by his own account and much better person through tm and eye? He also had stayed with Bob rose from the table and foundation, and so I got neuron with Bobby, and I I asked him what these questions you know about Its ties to religion and they really. They no longer really draw their connection. Have they got a connection to the Mai she'd. Have we brought it to America and they love him and regard him, but they do view it as a technology that is, yeah. I shall we. You asked me why I was drawn to my phone is over and over, rhoeteum, those,
This is why, at the time six years ago, but I dont have a yet him are you know where I met its units? Honey, robins, there's a thing, the one meditation that he brought over media. I did that with his only and that was really great experience, to Wit TM as a reprimand practice. I can repeat of I've, always said Arthur as one of my favorite books. Again, the idea of the Buddhist kiss and that kind of enlightenment cause. I know you're interested in this idea, I meant is really compelling. It seems like a lot to get there and you gotta go out to the river and a lot of stodgy, also be hungry for a long time on the lot of stuff, yeah. I mean look argument to amend this we're position of being interested in pursuing something am, I meant that I don't even know it's if it's real, so it's it's a kind of a need dilemma, and yet my my hair is on fire with curiosity about it who have you met? Who do you think is
and I ve never met anybody who collect what actually I've met. I met somebody who claims to be kind of in the area of fully enlightened, my meditation teacher when you Ask him. You fully enlightened his gun. You, Joseph Goldstein, is like a man. She, jewish guy from here in New York, when the Columbia join the peace corps and ended up like in Thailand. Finding meditation fifty years ago has been teaching ever since. He comes from a school of Buddhism where these these four levels of enlightenment, these four experiences that you need to have before your fully enlightened. If you where are you on the spectrum? He'll say casually somewhere between the first and the third, but you didn't ask you asked about, would like ink is actually line- and I have to say that of all the human beings with whom I have ever had contact Joseph Goldstein is the closest to being sort of. Behavioral e his behaviour attitude speech
all things that I emulate on my best days I just parity of clarity of thought- cares about what he should care about. Yes, dozens. but I stopped that he shouldn't care they ass ever. I've seen him on having bad hair days. He would joke that. He doesn't have that much hair. I've seen I've seen him get. You know, mildly personality about stuff, but not really that much, and I just did the innate on contrived integrity to the man is hard to describe, and so to me that gives me some confidence, even though I am not sure than like Ms Real or this whole map that he's that he's risk I'm still is a real thing. I don't know as soon as you try. I mean it tonight. I can simply start lay out a metric I wish to measure I'm checking out that mean there's something about that that feels like what's in karate or something, and that,
no nobody who is really good at that stuff ever talked about the moment. They went from the Bluebell to purple belt or somethin as the thing right, the people who really can practise it or on a different kind of genuine? That was only about learning and knowledge and Mining mare abilities, so to me when I met people occasionally who seem to really have the ability to be present because any give it to me. I think you can really just really take it down to can. I exist right here in the present right now, with my full, like empathy and all my antenna out and ready to just like react. Listen not worry about the consequences from external forces. Can it be right here? That's really challenging, but that's the closest thing than I can.
imagine to the idea of that kind of enlightenment which is like to live without fear for even those little moments? And so, if you can have two seconds where you're living without fear of judgment than you have those. If you can look at somebody else and really be there, because if you can just be present, you'll do the right thing right, cause you're, not about the other stuff. So then you can be really good, you can help, and so there are very few people have met. Who really are like that? I mean. You know there's a teddy and challenges short story, but that's not a real person. Sadly He's enlightened, that's good it! You know that he's enlightenment eleven times that I haven't thought so, but in it then the extent that meditation allows you to string a few more
those moments of presence together, then perhaps it's a road toward that kind of enlightenment. But if you go back to said Arthur and the idea that. the chasing it right go vendors chasing it. The whole time starts as is not chasing it he's just fine following in a very present way. What feels like the very thing he needs to do, and, of course that leads him to it and it's not something you reach air other than by a kiss and so the by a kiss, the transfers, the feeling not any kind of knowledge that that you can gain. So you know for some people its list, sing to a great song or reading a book that transports them, and maybe in that, like a little moment that lingers after you figured finish a great piece of art, there's a moment you're just like right there, and maybe that's the closest to it.
That we get to be so whatever ladder you need to climb, like whatever that thing is, is worth trying. I think, as long as the the idea of trying doesn't become the thing right as long as we remember, the goal is to not be trying its be right here. Well, said, all of that and is also possible that there are, that there isn't a thing called enlightenment. But there are things called enlightened Mintz and there may be lots of different she ran and sell those things. I actually you realize you selling, unlike get out there and do I believe my mother largely gave me them in my Christmas stocking I married and untutored anyway, but back to boot, but you recently- and I just want to address- which is you talked about Europe
your worry about like a map that you wouldn't want to be part of it. So let me just play devils advocate in defence of the map and the maps, because in the various religious traditions within Buddhism, but also, I believe, within the mystical strains of of Abraham face, there are the sort of step wise progression. Toward you know you. You can start with a few moments of presence and empathy, but then you can get to protracted periods of it and then you can have it become not just a state, but a trait and and so the argument for the map is that actually you can do things practices and that outcomes will their will, be predictable and reliable outcomes to the maps to which armor don't involve, like you have to study with this. You have to pay x amount of knowledge at this point, what there are simply monastic over twenty six hundred years have found in this. I find truly fascinating that if you sit and do this the practice in a certain way. Certain experience as well,
happen in your mind, reliably and predictably again, our visitor. I've had these experiences, but it is, As an aid to me that there is something going on, apparently in the human mind, as a baseline capacity that you can have these experiences, if you sit in, do follow the instructions and that this has been happening for millennia is, is a really really interesting thing again. If it's true show, don't worry. I'm not referred to some sort of shoots and ladders type a thing where you have to study with Ex person pay this fee and then access revealed. Yet That's not really what I'm no end, even as a sceptic which I am like. I can. He'd Tony Robs book awaken the giant within, and I can find. Often there that's useful on I'll just, but I like to look at those things. well is there a discovery that someone's made about like a tool or technique that I can try
And then I will be able to measure whether its helpful or help me find direction in my life and, I didn't look for that suffer more sceptical at when it's in the religious sphere, because I I that's that's been used to can even every religion has been used to control big groups of people. I love and share your scepticism. I fear- old, I think, as a podcast hosts to do one of the primary things which is to get get give our audience a sense of like how. became, who you are so low. Let me just say a few things about your passing them. Let you pick it up from there. I know that you want to Tufts Europe here in Europe. Did he your dad's grove along on long island? Sorry, your dad's, a music executive, yes, and when you in in college, I understand you actually started getting interested in in recruiting artist. You discovered Tracy Chapman. If I've I have that, I did.
I've been there wasn't a yet. So I started going too they were going to see what my father, I was very little boy was incredible thing to get to do and in fact theirs. but he's dragon in for my dad. Only in the last episode of billion, someone says that Bobby Axelrod has Laura Mars eyes and my dad produced the theme song from that movie. The eyes of our Mars EL works, great xyz or feed on where it all worked. Great people love the line, but an an interpreter when I got attacked from my dad say like I gave Weaver lore Mars and which is great, I remember falling asleep, MR recording that I'm a studio, couch and just come back from the great musicians of all time play this guitar solo at the end of that track, and emotionally nine years old and remember just sitting up in watching him. Do it over and over again and was mine blow. Experience but when I was in college, it was at the time that,
so because was around museum. Listen besides all the time in an absurd music fan, I learned how to figure out what was good. I learned about what made somebody a good, songwriter, good singer. We will talk about all the time and I, Hours and hours listening closely, then, when I was in college, I was very bombs in government and just click on the northeast. He's a big movement. They the end. Were invested. Many of them in companies business in South Africa during apartheid, and so I was one the two or three people who led the movement? I my campus for divestment, which was to get the ball to agree to divest from these companies that we're doing business in South Africa, because endowments were hung in a punch, hundred million dollars And in doing that, I organised and all day boycott of classes and got speakers from
All over New England, a calm and speak, and a friend of mine in Petersburg said there's this folk singer that I'm I wanna go seekers. She might be great. The played this rally and, unlike her and I went to see her and it was Tracy German and I got by broke down a tears watching her perform, because my allotted set me up to recognise what it was that she was able to do, and I mean they talk about a revolution that night and so I got Tracy to play the rally and then spend the next two and a half years trying to get it agreed. Let me record demos with her and to make record that I brought Your commission is my dad I'm to fly up. It took a long time, but that did end up becoming that first huge Tracy Genome and you then spent many years posed college as I understand it as an air and archives, Leonardo and amusing business, and what the law school at night and and When I turn thirty Riskin staff.
Is he returned turn thirty? I realise that if I had in mind she was born or for child. I made my first child and I looked at my son using nine months old, and I realise that there is a big, I, which was I was gonna, tell him grow up in chase. His dream and I realized I wasn't chasing mine, I realized I wanted to be an artist and that, if you did If I, if I didn't, go out and chase it somehow didn't commit to it. I wouldn't be able to tell him that. Look, I'm really in the eye, and I realized I was a block rider blocked writer for a long time- and I I realise that it. If you, if your blog writer it becomes toxic and that toxicity. When that dream kind of dream dies, the toxicity spreads, and you end up, I think, becoming talks to the people around you, and I don't want that. I wanted to be like a great husband and a great father and
that's when my best friend my went into basement ever agree to mean a basement every day and we rode our first movie, which was rounders and bade the research for that movie. was involved you're getting involved. I was Panada yes, oh years a poker underground phobia How did that? That was all part of like the realisation that I wasn't happy eyes, the realisation that I wasn't living life I'm supposed to be living was found myself in my office one night and I'd like gain weight. and I had never been a cigarette smoker, my entire life- and I was- I- was twenty nine and never to cigarette smuggling, I was like smoking and fine cards like and ever opportunity I had, and I realized what the problem was promised. I wasn't lemon lap us both live you ve got on built the fantastic writing career You said that was at thirty or forty nine, now forty nine nineteen years of nineteen years of doing this, and when winded meditation start so
What I did then, when I was thirty, I wasn't meditating yet I was doing something very close to which I still do, which is joy, Cameron's the artist way, which is these I'd freely, thing fur, an hour in the morning three longhand pages, we write anything that you want to write United can't censorious out what you want to write issues, what you happen to write, and so There's something very meditative about that practice, because you're not censored your free flowing you're not in any way, is reacting to the words any he comes in your head, you're putting out and it for. For me, it has a centering, a fact that I start taking very long walks, and so I did those things and that's what I read Tony Robbins book awaken the giant within try to figure out why Do what I want to do and how and I started meditating five years ago and because I felt like this price in pressure of all this stuff was becoming intrusive and
I'm always looking for a way to like fine tune whatever it is that I do as up for me as a parent husband and then as an artist and well. Yes, as I say when I read that book by David Lunch and then read rustles book and and talk to a few other people I thought that I should really investigate end and try it does it help with creativity, and Finally, what is the mechanism by which it helps with greater well being sought? anxiety and fear to me are the greatest blocks to creativity that I now because for me, I need to be in a state where, where I feel free aware, I don't feel burdened and where I don't feel the pole, to the monkey mind right and to those who are not feel the pole to that stuff to reactive thinking.
and so it helps because I think you know the science as it changes your quarters. Levels, and it does all this stuff to make. You feel less anxious and then also there are. I have just found a few different times, and you don't push for it. In fact, the opposite you're, just saying a mantra. Sitting there. Unlike the answer will just show up. We're it'll show up ten minutes later and an answer, huge answer to something that happens in the season finale of billions. Just do you know. I did all the stuff that I always do to generate ideas, and then I remember I just sat down to close my eyes and, like this whole thing just popped into my head as those Mediterranean. Did you stop meditating? Guess what I asked Barbara the other day? What do you do? it's really one of those ideas you stand up,
you write it down when you come right back and meditate get it out of your head. Why? You think t am specifically has taken off in such a big way in among celebrities and also like in Hollywood generally, what in a team, Ferris and if you know too, I don't know a friend of mine and he says it's like seventy five of more than seventy percent of his gas and oil communities. All these incredibly Achieving people do it do tm are met in meditation, but I think I hear percentage in M duty Priscilla. It's very simple the fear many people have in meditation mindfulness is everyone? Does Most people do your kind invitation caused how hard it is people who did see em cause you talk about, how easier sellen because I get nothing by talking about it, it's just easy, and so it's the and lets say for the sake of argument. Let's say that your
maybe Maybe they're slightly more benefit to you than to me if you're looking at them, science or whatever, maybe mindful practiced everyday correctly. Let's just say for the sake of it, Gives you five percent? More of some. I dont know that. No, I don't even think that that's true, but I'm seeing let's say that it does the thing. I know I'm not doing stuff that I'd have to do to do the mine, html sit down essay margarine- whether I can do it or not, doesn't my all I have to do is say two marginal myself. You can't fail to atm. point of it is it you can't fail the whole way you relax into it is to know I don't feel like it was a good meditation I don't have to seed, a blocking thoughts out I don't have to this my breath on my upper lip, you know I mean I was an actor all through college did stuff that similar, mindful that you did breathing stuff, I hated all of it- am I love how I feel afterwards
I love every part of doing it. It's look in our culture. I think we feel like if something's not hard, it's not worth doing, maybe and or how can I make gain if it's not challenging? Tm is great because it's simple to do. You just have to carve the time and you get results. So I think that's why I think that's why catches on. Also mean a fact. It bob wrath who you ref reference a couple times, is available to tee ease. He works for the David Foundation, I've never actually, madam, but you have. I would rather have in mind for sure I want to reach out to him. He seemed like such an interesting guy, but he he makes himself available. As far as I understand it took two too pretty prominent. To teach them one on one, and I think that I think that as Meda, if he does and his team will. But I mean they're, not least in that I've worked into that office and Bob can somebody for free who's. The furthest thing from famously all point to give an explanation is:
the numbers again. I'm not I'm the furthest, think from a spokesman for any of it. They taught the hundreds of thousands of inner city kids to meditate and veterans who have opposed you, know post traumatic syndrome too, to meditate Yan, high schools for sure sure yeah switch here's your slightly you do. You mention the name Tony Robins a couple times I know you producing you're involved in producing a new document. Red is gonna, come out about him yet, given our executive producers of the document, Joe Berliner, whose great Documentarily you know, one of the like legendary Documentarily, made some kind of mine there are any made the outcome of your he made. The paradise lost movies would rather important films that really important and figuring out who is really innocent, whose really West Memphis three guilty in the West Memphis three. Berliner made the film David. I just introduced him to Tony
is your view, because you you have established yourself in the course of this interview, I think in a server rock solid, whereas skeptical dude. What is your view of tiny Robin I mean I I actually, I will admit again, pilgrim haven't remit is a lot in this interview that he's not somebody about whom I have a night's encyclopedia inside it encyclopaedic knowledge, but I know he does have its critics So what is your view of him? We all have our critics, and much better, but I think Tony has fewer and fewer court critics now and I think that if you see Berliners movie, you'll get her around a clear sense of what it is that Tony Robins does again, I'm not a spokesman, tiny, but I'm a huge fan. The wagon, calls thing yet, while the one on calls thing to me is met a metaphor, and he talks about about it as metaphor in his events, but that's the performance piece of what he does.
What works about what Tony Robins talks about is theirs to me. He found a way to codify some questions that are really important, and I think the EU wait. If you watch is TED Talk, he gave it up. Al Gore and the audience a few years ago. That's like one of most popular tat docks and if you gotta, maybe there's a link to the shone out or something. But it'll give you really clear sense of what it is that he's interested in, which is like human beings and their. Why their reason for doing the things that they do and how he can help you figure out. whether you're doing things just reactive layer. What are you doing things for an actual reason, and I can tell you there a few different times in my life, where I read Tony said, or I listen to something, and I was about to translate into language that made sense for me and help me to get to the next level at something.
sounds like it's been regularly specific, Blakeney specific little things, their tiny things. Given our try to get a movie made called solitary men and which it was very difficult to do. It was a small independent movie. We had Michael Douglas wanting to do it and play the lead I'd written. It took me four years right, a demon organs wrecked gather and we this conversation with some, agents, whose at all can there be able to raise the money for this may give us all these. Like technical reasons, why and I happen to be listening to thing. We're Tony talked about The danger of listening people who hold themselves out as experts are smarter than you in an area if its powers, well you're, smart enough to like do the research herself read up on thing and figure out. Sort of destructive language and forgot to sign Troutina sounds like I can do that, and so I spent, reading a little bit more about how foreign sales were done and he talks about
Ways to sort of remind yourself take action every day, so I made myself Nike Idee shoes than other word, solitary on them written a hundred and I wore them every day for until I got them of agreement, and I would like this whose- and they would remind me to do something- to move solitary meant forward and I call these agents one day- and I said: ok, here's! What are you guys? Have those conversations David going to go? Have them set us up with meetings with these points as people in their like their bankers? how to talk to them, and I said you know I gotta talk them familiar with them. I get the money will go, make the movie. We then we can make an echo. We had the money because they realize we were going to go. Do it? Yes, it was harder they had to do but rather than be embarrassed by having us do it, they had to go out and figure out how to do it, and that was it wrecked result of like reading three things that the guy had said. Now I don't, not a fan of the walking on call idea, because it is possible. People miss the metaphor and think it actually dangerous, but I think that peace helped a lot of people and I think that the work is like has helped me
Looking forward to watch the movie, the movie was the best reviewed thing of our career. It was Roger Hubert's year, invest less than your time here and best, lest the small movie in art movie, like I said, but we knew that it was really an important thing get made, and this really helped helped us to it. We'll have a government in the remaining minutes are there any other things that you wish. I had ass. Any other projects- you want, but I'm the only other thing I would say is that people like this kind of conversation, I was too podcast called the moment where I've cases of people that are similar this about the in inflection points inflection poison, their lives moments where everything was kind of in the bow, and so I'll talk to someone like set Myers about what it feels like to be on. The cover of time and news week, you know as like, Bruce Springsteen before him or I'll talk to Morrow Vitaly about the night. He had an aneurysm and what that changed, and so
I'll try to authors that I love musicians and really draw down about how they found the best version of themselves. So it's also my Itunes store. That sounds ass. An on going to sleep Dr One, last quite on I was reading something you wrote the other day about the things that you do to get a put yourself in the zone and one end, and we, things? A comic as you listed exercise you listed meditation, but the other thing you mentioned, which is a little obscurantists overwrought it listeners or viewers, might not know it. If you mentioned a banker steady, our gas guys arm and what so that's the sort of my party has your star wealth is the absolute then Craig and TAT. I got both women, their tag, cooler so either I'd who I did a long since deceased, Slash, euthanize, show about in Iraq many years ago and I'll amplified, and I had them on and their incredibly nice guys and are also great ban. So what's your favorite hold steady sung that we should play out? The show with
who dropped her, for I mean really probably sequestering Memphis, but hood referenda. Frankly, people don't know that's on its grants agreement and we are going to set out a resurrection really feels, but which is the swish right. Their rifles at Radford Young. For now, a phenomenal, almost killed me man. The whole steady, almost killed my friend my new friend everywhere there doing this. You are phenomenal guessed. What a pleasure great talked about this, and I'm really glad you do in this research. Tell me what you find the suitors. I find out everybody what billions everybody check out the moment Thank you again right for shit. Ok, so that was crying compliment. I think I'm gonna make one of my new friends. I guess how awesome I want to add- and I know sorry this is self promotion. Also excuse me, but I want this gas to live.
for a long time, and part of that is that is too beg you to subscribe to it to rate it, preferably five why don't you know, work the rest here, but might be nice. And to write a review just do a short little review anything, but all that really helps us stay stay alive which we want to do is we want to be bringing you this progress for a long time? I think- Very much for listening will be back soon with a new one.
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