For maybe see this is ten percent happier by cast I'm Dyin Harris hey, for many of us in this pandemic. Our relationship to time has become particularly fraught, for example, may be noticing that, with no limits on your work time with your work and office becoming the same thing, you're going into overdrive and feeling more craze than ever Orient be feeling like you have too much time in our board out of your mind, or you may be feeling both, voting on the day or the time of day my guest to they. Actually, Williams is an assistant professor at Harvard Business, school and author of the book time. Smart she was recommended to by a former guest on this show lorry Santos, the professor from Yale who's, the host of the happiness lab podcast actually have pretty radical approach to managing your time or taking your time

to put a new spin on an old cliche. Her goal is to get you from a state of time poverty to one of time after In this conversation, we talk about how to do a time, audit funding time, finding time and re framing time, the surprising sent to which priority in time over money predicts your happiness and what to do if you're, not that kind of person. a handle time confetti and the value of cancelling meetings. This is actually the first of a two part series we're doing this week on the subject of time on Wednesday, we're gonna talk to somebody with a rather different approach to this issue, her name Jenny, Odell and she wrote a best selling book called how to do nothing. One last thing before we get into the air so we would love it and deeply appreciate it if you could take a few minutes to do us a solid by

answering a survey about your experience with this podcast were always looking for ways to get better at what we do. We love to hear from you importation I would like to hear from anybody who listens to the show, but doesn't use the ten percent happier app. That said, we really air from everybody. Please go to ten percent dotcom forward, Slash survey, ten percent doc for its last survey, as always link in the show notes. Thank you for that. Here we go Ashley Wilkins, actually, Wilson's, thanks for coming on things are having me. Yes, we both owe a debt of gratitude to lorry Santos at Yale, who suggested that I chat with you so shut out. The lorry I'm interested in how you got interested in the subject of time, what was going on in your life that time achieved a high level of say I'd say decided to dedicate so much of it

more time to studying it in teaching people about it, yeah so studying it and teaching people about it happened at different times in my life, so to start on the first, just, how did I get interested in the scientific staff? he of time is. I was working with Elizabeth done at the University of British Columbia shoes. adviser in grad school and He was doing all this really interesting. Research showing were not very good at spending our money and ways of promoting happiness spending as little as five dollars or twenty dollars, and others can promote greater happiness in spending that same five dollars or twenty dollars and ourselves. But we don't recognize this and we get it wrong kind of, we spend too much material purchases and not enough on helping others. We spend too much Our furniture and not enough on vacations or experiential purchases and the Son of God- listen. I thinking if we're so bad at spinning, one of our values, resources. Money were probably not very good at seven.

our time in ways that promote happiness either, so we started to market series of research projects really trying to understand how to people navigate trade off between time and money to people spend money to save time. If not, why not and are there things We can all do on an everyday basis to spend small moments of free time. Five minutes. Thirty minutes. in ways that are more likely to promote happiness. So that's how I became interested in the research side of things just trying to understand how do people navigate trade off between time and money and how can we help people spend their time? even small windfalls of time in ways that are more likely to promote happiness. And then I think, interested in applying my research in my own life and writing about it and communicating it beyond academic journals. When I started on faculty at the Harvard Business School probably be most.

Financially maximizing in time minimizing decision one could make it as a junior faculty member working constantly having dough time off and actually ruining my first serious relationship, because, even though I was studying the importance of putting time first, I was doing the exact opposite and my personal life, and it's got me thinking if I someone who said these the importance of time for happiness and making all of these decisions on an everyday basis that, prior to his work, for everything else. If I'm struggling to put time first, I must not be alone. I was giving a talk Coronel University, on the importance of valuing time for romantic relationships. Meanwhile, I was break help with the partner of ten years I was like,

Ashley. What have you done with yourself here? You are leading experts at the time and have today that you just ruined you're, very serious relationship of ten years by focusing too much and work and productivity. Moment became why I decided to serve. writing about the importance of time, so we could go from moving from an abstract concept here. Yeah, we all know time matters, but none of us are going to put it first, we're just gonna, put workforce and start helping myself and others live a more time. First time focused lie by making small decisions around the margins have more and better time. So, in short, to kind of summarize, I became first fascinated by the scientific,

we have time, money, trade us and how those influence happiness and on a very personal level, I wanted to help others and myself put what we know from the scientific literature into practice in everyday life, because knowing and doing are two very different things, but I'm sure you ve heard this question before. But if you couldn't do it Are we supposed to do so? I could do it and I am doing it now. I just wasn't doing it at the time, and so there is. for all of us. So, let's start with the biggest. impact for moves. We can make in this area because well we feel like we have too much or too little time. It's gonna be an issue for every no human being. Where do we start? I think we have to start by first note seeing how we make decisions between time and money. So, in my empirical research, I posed a simple question to probably about fifty thousand

in people all over the world and the quest is due value time over money or money over time. So you more Taylor. You, warlike, Morgan Taylor, values, time more than money is willing to give up money to have more free time, such as by war. fewer hours and organ values: money more than time. Morgan is willing to sacrifice leisure in order to work additional hours at the office, for example, and one I asked people this about fifty percent say their Taylor. Fifty percent say their more again and critically people who say their more like Taylor are happier and spend their I'm in ways that are more likely to produce greater gains and happiness like falling tearing our spending more time socializing, but it's not and misery sentence. Someone who focuses or on money and work and success at the expense of leisure. You just have to start to cultivate and awareness as the first step

of whether you're someone who values time or someone who values money and the way that we make trade offs around time and money happen. Kind of suddenly across is anyone over the course of our lie? So the example I was talking about Personal example of me take A job that made of salary, but also me to work around the clock. That's an obvious example of sacrificing time in order to make more money you're, making a clear choice. I personally was faced with the decision to worker government job on the West Coast of Canada glass, money, have more leisure or to take a job at the Harvard Business School We have no free time, but I make more money and potentially advance of my career faster I chose this more money. Focused decision that's a more obvious kind of time, money, tradeoff. However, we also make small treat us an everyday basis where we are sometimes sacrificing a lot of our time

a little bit of financial reward like researching for the best deal online, oh and over for many hours or deciding the very far away from our place of employment to have a slightly your house that's a little bit cheaper when we could live close to where we work, maybe that's less relevant currently in the moment, but definite become more relevant again across time, and so the First thing I advocate for is doing a time audit and becoming mindful of the ways that we spend time and waste time. the trade us that are making on an everyday basis and over the course of our lives that may make us feel time, poor and then thinking to yourself was there any trade ass. I could start making that would allow me to make different decisions and have more time and greater happiness for me people ask me: what is the one consistent thing that you putting the pact? your own life and because I am more of a money and work focused person,

Overall, I more of a more again less for Taylor, I'm very delay for it with how I spend time in my personal life? I point in time in the MIKE calendar for Leisure- and I don't move that time, no matter what worked out I am working under, so I become a lot more thought full and deliberate about protecting, might be sure as if it was important as work, because it is in fact more important than my work projects, as I've learned the hard way, and then, of course, we can get into this more, but there are other strategies we can take. In addition to doing a time, audit like funding time finding time and framing time they can help. All of us feel a greater sense of control of our time on an everyday basis and to gain greater happiness and feel less stressed

One thing I learned: that is, if I get to this point the interview and I have a million questions, it's a good interview that I have a million questions. Okay, so where to start I'm assuming Taylor and Morgan are made up people not like Taylor, Swift and Morgan, Fairchild or whatever, like these are just like avatars Eve, great ass, their avatars, because tease time and m is like money advocate tailored organ our gender neutral, but so totally made up but we didn't want to ask people what they valued. I didn't want to say: do value money, people billing? No, I don't value money, but then meanwhile, they'll go work, eighty hours and never see their family, so we had to make these hypothetical characters to encourage responding. People are more likely say, yeah, I'm a little more like Morgan LE less like Taylor, if you make it about a hypothetical fictional character than about them, because, if I ask you, what are you value? People feel like there being judged,

by the same biologist studies, happiness I'm just wondering, though, does this Taylor Morgan Dichotomy, really capture all of the new wants, because just take you, for example, you had this up, and I don't the details ivy, six, that we ve never madness for her first interaction, but you had would be sounds to me like a choice between a government job on the West Coast of Canada and going H, BS and you portrayed you're decision to go to Harvard Business School as short Morgan or money focused, but it could be because, like this is the maturity of a lifetime you care so much about what you do. You love what you do and I would argue that development already the hours you're working you're, not thinking about whatever the financial ramifications are, is because you have sex with what it is you study, and so I don't know like. Does this dichotomy really hold in the real world AIDS day?

predict people's time and money. Tradeoffs you're right. It's an imperfect measure, so there's other things that people value that are going on to, but general lot of our decisions. Do involved sacrifices of time. They have more money or sacrifices of money to have more time and you tell me your more of a tailor or more of a Morgan? This predicts We are decisions. This predicts daily Asians on an everyday basis? How much are going to spend time researching for the best deal or not whether you're going to spend more in a direct flight or not, and it reliably predicts how much are going to spend in Iraq someone tat you ve never met before so how much willing to socialize that, even if it might not pay off for year, financial successor career satisfaction. So it's not everything, but it does reliably predict time and money trade us across days over the course of people's lives and importantly, predicts people's happiness extend to

people prioritize time over money predicts happiness more than material is more than just liking, stuff more than the amount of money that they make more than personality characteristics like extra version, more then financial insecurity and how financially sat people feel in the future. So it's not the only things that matter. For happiness for these decisions is not all that's going on in people's minds, but it is capturing a framework fur thinking about how you might wanna be making decisions, or at least recognising that some of your decisions about money are also having a time implication and people we'd, better able to recognise those kinds of trade offs that decisions about our finances are often implicating. Our time do seem to report greater happiness, last stress and better social relationships. Are the tailors happier or is it really just about an understanding yourself in that's what dictates the happiness

So tailors are happier, but in part I think they are happier because of what you are saying, so people who who are more time. Focused, do spend more their time in ways that promote happiness for them. So we see in of our research papers that we published on this topic tailors are more likely to die four intrinsically motivating, as opposed extrinsically motivating reasons which protects their happiness in clear satisfaction years after graduation people who are more time focused our so more likely to spend more time socializing tearing interacting with colleagues all of these constellation of activities that are good for happiness. so you might beyond is something here when you're saying well, maybe time people know why it makes I'm happy and are better allocate your time towards those meaningful unhappiness producing activity. Since we do find evidence that our data, that that is the case- and so

This is why the first step of becoming time affluent is to become mindful of higher spending time it. With time at it. If you well, where you think about what I Please bring me meaning what activities bring me joy and think about how much time you tip We spend and activities that are meaningful and satisfying and maximize of time you spend on those activities and minimize the amount of time you spend an unpleasant or stressful activities. Labour economists call this maximum in your you and that's my book added or causes summary condo method of time pick it up look at the way you spent time yesterday in the morning afternoon. In the evening did activity bringing meaning was it just some higher goal. You haven't life. If no should you keep doing it, maybe you should get rid of it, and so you can through this activity and think about allocating the way that you spend your time in a way that matches ideally how you would like to spend your time and on the active

he's at bringing more meaning and more satisfaction. So there is some in this idea that people who are broadly tailors broadly time focused, might be better. Both have the skills and understanding this awareness of what activities, bring the meaning and satisfaction and their more clearly allocating their time to those activities, as opposed others that they might be pursuing more for extrinsically motivated reasons, as opposed to intrinsically meaning, enjoyment directly correlated for argovie denoting apples of That is a good idea. I teach this I'm hp ass. They teach you to buy to grant right. So you can have an activity that high and meaning low and satisfaction, maybe taken care of your kid stay up all night with a new born high meaning? Does it go get in the moment. Maybe not does it feel good the next day, no you're, probably exhausted and then still trying to do a million other things, but it's high on meaning low on pleasure, so just simply about maximizing

pleasure? You also have to maximize meaning as well, but maybe you had a different examples- another I was actually going to think. I was just going to talk about my every night after dinner, my son, who six were about to turn six wants to play this game where we, he jumps bad and I throw pillows item, which is that Syria, typical male kid desire. You know something: semi aggressive and is high on meaning, because often in that context like share things about his day that he otherwise wooden but is incredibly boring. Most of the time So I prioritize it, and yet it I, like I walk away. You know like I would from up you know massage yeah, so massages a perfect, not very big, far, purposeful, very pleasant activity, and you want to be being about time as diversifying your portfolio, since you, when you're financial investments, you want some companies that are high and meaning like taking

Your kids hang out there, but not necessarily super pleasant in the moment. You need some activities that are high and pleasure, but not certainly high meaning and then, of course, you want activities that are both like engaging and purposeful worker bar and tearing engaging in civic engagement with your family are your friends and then what we talk about in the book in what research Airports, as you also want to minimize the amount of time that you spend in unpleasant and stressful activities like doom scrolling on social media or other ways that we were time on an everyday basis, constantly checking email that get in the way of these more purposeful, unpleasant activities and even household chores might fit into this. And this is where the strategy that I alluded to earlier comes from this idea of funding time you can you whose money to outsource some of these activities, all into this lower left hand. Quadrant of you know if you kind of think about unpleasant.

non meaningful activities. You can think about spending money to get rid of some of the activities that make you stressed that aren't bringing you joy. Don't have a higher meaning in life, both at work and in your personal life. I suspect ass question hour. I suspect listeners have been wanting, ass for up minutes, which is, can you say more about how exactly we would do a time out it? Yes, so you can think back to a typical work today? We want to think about a normal day where you would experience the typical stew means of everyday life, not a weekend where your schedule might look different than it does. usually and then think about the activities that you engaged in in the morning the afternoon and the evening, write down with the major episodes were, and then you just want to write out was the activity meaningful? Was it pleasant? Was it not meaningful? Was it unpleasant to make you feel sick,

now and then you can think about fraud, the activities that were not meaning form and not enjoyable. Could you get rid of it? Could you either stop doing the activity? Could you pay? someone else to do the activity, could you delegated to someone if it's a work task? and maybe the answer is no, in which case you can think about re framing that activity, and we can talk a little bit more about that or you. If you can outsource, maybe you can pay to get rid of it. This is the strategy of funding time or you could double aid to someone else. You might see it as morbid opportunity than you do, but really the point of this exercise is to begin to cultivate awareness. About what activities you find meaningful and pleasurable what activities you find stressful. What I These are you engaging in perhaps mindlessly and two cultivated. Greater awareness around how you spend time on an everyday basis in order to start spending moments, minutes

and time in everyday life on activities that bring you joy and satisfaction. One thing that emerges from my data so clearly is that we often think we need to have a lot of free time to spend more time in ways that bring us joy and satisfaction like helping others like exercise. Sing like socializing. However, even bending thirty more minutes. A day engaged in active leisure can have powerful benefits for a mood so act. These are socializing exercising volunteering spending. Time actively engaged in social activities with friends and family and so the whole purpose of a time It is to see where your time goes missing on an everyday basis and then to think about how might be able to imbue summer time that you spend in the wise unpleasant activities and more positive and pleasant ways. So this doesn't require clearing out

Seven more hours of your day to do the thing: that's in the upper right quadrant of combat it that quadrants, but the most meaningful her most pleasurable stuff? It sounds like you can do this kind. On the margins yeah, that's really. The whole point of this exercise is to find places where you might, and half an hour passively scrolling on social media and trying to substitute that time with an activity that you want to do more of like exercise or going outdoors or spending time of your kids just to go back to the base. blocking in tackling on doing a time on it. I believe you said, but it's possible, that I had some sort of rain glitch at the moment. I didn't hear you correctly, but I believe you said sort of pick a day and map it out, but wouldn't you want, for the sake of more holistic accuracy, to pick like a month, Sir, if you pick a typical day, that'll be pretty representative of most of your typical days. The signs,

big literature, says Tuesday is a perfectly average day. So you should pick a Tuesday that isn't it weird Tuesday, just a regular work, Tuesday and pick that day in due time it there. If I really want to get into it sure for reliability? Do it every Tuesday of next month, but again we're talking to time. Poor people here might not have to do it. Every Tuesday, Tuesday start there. It might not be perfect, but at least it's got you thinking so pick up Tuesday and just really take up I have to say how did I use every say, fifteen an incremental this day? I don't feel like you're. It you're an eighty percent, maybe you're like every fifteen minutes, but I dont even hundreds of people like that backs unaware at all. You know, I really resent you diagnosing me so accurately: I'm the one that I use my parents come down on me they're, like yeah. We always knew you end up at times,

men junkie, you used to keep less ever so detailed about all of the things he wanted to do. Better of my day to the hour when I eight years old or something so it's ok, it's from one a type to another. We give it, we can give misery, but it can be employers, as at the end of the day, think tears thought what activities today do in the morning the afternoon and evening what was it the rifle moment. For me, what was a meaningful activity for me? I was a stressful, unpleasant activity for me and is there anything I can do about that? Can I spend less time engage in that activity. Can I get rid of it? Can I delegate at what here that is unpleasant and productive is under my own control and really start idea find those activities as a first place to start and let's make sure that that makes a ton of sense and do you can listeners can apply this advice whatever level of complexion suits their personality type, but you talk about

meantime finding time re framing time, and I think we all understand what funding time is because you talked about it at some length, but you don't you can. If you have the funds, can you pay somebody to do the more assertive enervating, less meaningful, lower lower left hand to quadrant of the of gas of the matrix what about finding time in re framing time. Yes, so far, Long time comes from this deliberation may receive just kind of thought about where your time, was missing on an everyday basis. I love talking about this. This is one of the major time traps item, About in the book around why we all feel so time poor as we often waste time or we let our technology take up too much time than it should, and so far in time is this idea of notice saying where we get sucked into a trap like technology

email where we're engaging and unpleasant unproductive activities, but we're maybe not conscious about how much time goes missing in those activities? For me, it's me, in box when I should be working on something important or should He spending quality time. With my partner I get sucked into my inbox and For me, finding time looks like becoming mindful of one. I do that and trying to substitute that time use activity for something else So part of the reason I'm feeling so stressed is because I am constantly connected. Can I set times In my day, from five to six or from seven to eight, where I'm gonna actively disengage, whose activities for me that social media and do thing more proactive with that time, instead go for a walk, have a conversation with my son,

house call my mom and so finding time is finding those pockets in the day that go missing and trying to be pro active and schedule time. That is more positive. Over top of those block that tend to go missing when we are meeting. We talk about this example. You can also think about finding time is imbued being some of them. negative moments in your day with something more positive. If you like, listen, to music but are not able to engage in as much of that activity. As you would like. You can think about trying to listen to a pod cast I'll doing errands around the house or a while exercising. So that's another way in which you can find more time for the activities you like by connecting and activity like with something you don't like bundling time. If he well and have you said all there is to

about re. Framing time knows, of reaffirming time is something I really like. Obviously, we can't always outsourced ass we don't like, or maybe we don't want you one of my colleagues read my research on buying time, promotes happiness and was like I'm never going to hire a house cleaner. I know I could I have four kids, but I want my kids to see that their parents. care about doing the chores, and I went in still good values with my kids. Never gonna outsource. I get why produce distress and promotes happiness, but I'm never going to do it and that's totally fine, but a lot of what time poverty is created by this feeling of goal conflict of having too many things to do not enough to do them feeling pulled by many directions in our life, so Wonderingly can do to mitigate against some of this goal. Conflict is to rephrase some of the negative activities that we have to do that. We can't outsource that we don't love that feel what about Strasbourg

but might be helpful for our broader goals in life, if you are so one re framing strategy We can take at work related to finances this based on science. Is this idea Thinking about how drudgery in the workplace can help our colleagues get their work, and so simply seeing the connection between our task and other people's task is one way you can brief frame, negative experiences. That work is something more positive. Another way you can put this strategy and practice in your own life. Roundly framing time is actually can help. You get greater joy out of you weakens, I think something we ve all been experiencing in this forest spare me in working from home and not having the same so shawl and leisure opportunities, as we used to as weekends. Don't feel especial so we might work through them. Re framing time does supported by empirical evidence suggests that we should be pre framing our weekends, like a vacation simply telling ourselves that the up

coming, be sure that we have is special or different and trying to treat it like a vacation can help us safer, more and feel less goal conflict. So we don't even feel like we should be working with like we should be present in the moment enjoying our leisure. So that's a couple of simple strategies we can put into practice in our everyday life to reaffirm our time spent at work, time spent in leisure to better promote our happiness. I just pick up on the leisure, so it sounds like a minute. there certainly sounds familiar to me, but it's, although you saying that a big problem that many people experiences especially now in the pandemic, what is the least nominally leisure time can put us in a state of what you call goal conflict because we think well. I could be getting stuff done right now, but I'm not And soda think of it,

stared as Nada humdrum regular weekend comes around once a week, but in fact special vacation time them. can savour it in ways we otherwise might not. Yes exactly It reminds me of some advice that I got from a very wise person who, unfortunately, is no longer with us, but a young woman who was helping named grace. Who is helping me with a book that I'm writing right now and she was tired as a book researcher, but her job kind of morphed into which he called book therapists. It's a member so it's a very personal book and we will talk about a lot about the content of the book in which is obviously very personal content and lot of the things we talk about are directly related to what you and I are talking about em. You know how to my using my time, etc, etc, and, what's making me happy, what's make miserable was making me less pleasant to other people, etc, etc, and before I went on a vacation once which I read We do, and I know where to talk by vacations. I went out of a family vacation

and to Disney World and employed by Disney. So unless you're, if your tempted to say something, I'm sorry about Disney admit this aid the place. So I went to Disney worlds, and actually you can say what everyone I'm kidding islands. Canadians, I don't know much Snyder thinks about. It, then find so I waited the world and it is not much it. Disneyworld is personally interesting to me, but my son was there. He was so excited and dancing most of the time does he was so happy and where was some really good? and in their kids and so There was a lot serve emotionally to appreciate as much as I might not like savoured the Wid way p mover as much as a four year old wood, and she grace gave me this thing. This little the sole Cheesy, the idea of intentions, but I found it to be very helpful, but just to show ask me before I went on a vacation like what your goals, which are both a vacation. I said, yeah to disconnect from work and to enjoy spending time,

with my family and she said well just gonna- try to bring those two up in your mind is much possible- and I did like a little mantra- is- I was going through the day, disconnect so put pay phone in my wife's bag and enjoy. You know all of this size the sounds of my friends and family. Having a good time- and that still is minders were really helpful and I just wonder whether that feeds into what you're talkin about spending a weekend like a vacation yeah. I love this story because I think it does emphasise so much of what our data suggests as well and so the study that shows that treating and are coming weekend like a vacation is that it has happiness benefits exactly because it helps people be more present in the moment and safer everyday experience says to a greater extent and ice

this in my data as well, people who feel time affluent and who feel they have control over their time and have better social relationships and all that are better able to savour and get more so its faction from otherwise seemingly mundane activities. We see this increased, cultural data, which is so fine, we see that the French spend more time eating than America. Who spend more time choosing their food than actually enjoying it, and the time that French spent enjoying their meals directly translates into how much happiness they experience over the course of their lives, and I think we are tired you north american Cultural context to maximize to have the best of inexperience. I remember moving to the states and feelings overwhelmed by choice here. I know she knew the anger and others have done some great research on this. Where we spend so much,

time choosing what we're gonna eat in this example that we fail to realise the broader per this is to enjoy meal with our colleagues- are with their family members, and so we spend a limited amount of time that we might have had in the lunch break or at dinner thinking about what are we going to eat as opposed to enjoying each other's company So anything we can do to remind ourselves to be pressed in the moment to savour the positive opportune is that we have in our everyday life to connect with those that we care about For example, your friends and family will go a long way for time. Affluence and happiness is reminders to savour the present moment. I talk about this in some of my writing. We to keep our big. Why in mind and actually makes physical reminder is in our environment to stop and say for everyday experience, as though I advocate for this idea of a time wants to do less. If you find yourself at the council, meeting or half an hour

break and move the day you weren't expecting instead of working over that time, think can I go for a walk around the block. Call a friend can I do something? That's more socially connected, as opposed to more work focused. I also have a tattoo, on my rest as a physical reminder about the importance of food we and the limited nature of time you don't need to go as far as getting a tattoo, but you should put something in your physical environment, that helps you live with your intentions and goals in mind so that you can capitalize on the floor. Time that we do have available, even if the amount of time that you have is rather limited Can you tell everybody what you're tat too is the eyes so that my tattoo is an olive branch I realized it was an olive branch later, which is great, but I picked it in line lives with

my friend, on vacation at Disneyland. Actually, so there we got to Disney reference. We are sitting on Instagram waiting in a long line for a ride and we both got sort of matching tattoos, mines and olive branch and has the initials of my cousins, MARC and Pau. My cousin photo shuns muscular dystrophy and passed away before the age of thirty. Meanwhile, this was happening as those breaking up with a partner. ten years and reflecting a lot on what really matters in life and getting it. Two on my rests with their initials reminds me every day of the fleeting nature of life, the preciousness of time and the importance of savouring. the small, simple moments at the people that we care about, because we never know when a conversation is going to be the last one we ever have with someone and again, I think being a physical reminder in your space, just to help you centre and realise the most important Things in life is a useful exercise,

specially because our work is demanding, even if we love it, we need to disconnect sometimes and its can be hard technology sucks. Our attention in our work can be really fulfilling and can focus our attention and it's really Britain have physical reminders to focus your attention back outward beyond that. Technology that we're all using to communicate and to our social environment. You said you want people to be in touch with their the term was big. Why he had w h? Why so to be mindful of what is your purpose, your goal, your intention? What do you truly care in life, if you had one day remaining, what would you spend that I'm doing and living knowing the answer to that question, and then, find a live every single day so that the way you spend time on an everyday basis is closer to how you would spend time in an

Ideal day, or if it was you last day remaining, I think those reminders are so important. Yeah I mentioned is on the show before, but it maybe bears repeating because its directly relevant to this I said, a few moments ago that this idea of like setting an intention, something that you repeating in your own mind, it can be leads to me as somebody who's irascible, pretty cheesy, but I found it to be really helpful, and so I actually took me a long time to be able to remember to do this. But now, when I wake up in the morning most days, remember to actually state in my mind. What my aspiration or intention is, which is not very catchy, it's basically to make awesome stuff that health people do their life better, while making sure that my relationships are strong,

when myself and I find that is actually quite use and I try to come back to it throughout the day. That's my big! Why I do find it? It imbued everything I'm doing even the enervating stuff, because you know somebody is written a book in that process of writing a book right now. It's all horrible, my experience and so it's very helpful to bring myself back to the Big Y yeah. I think What I love about the example you just keep two is, when you remind yourself of your intention, one thing that I've done since writing this book and being on this time affluent journey a few well is I try to disrupt that. Habit that I have a rolling out of bed and going straight to my computer, as if my in is the most central, important thing in my life, and I note Sundays, where I go directly to my inbox and start working

even before I'm awake. Those are the days were. That's all I do I'm just focus on my desk. I dont focus on anything else. I dont reflect, and where I'm at some sort of head downward hang on things that feel urgent, but not might not be important. But when I take a step back- and I take half an hour before going to my desk and are much more deliberate, in the morning and color. My whole coming day with the sense of intention reality. My day is Wherefore I more deliberate, I'm engaging in more mine flaw activities around time, so combining what word Talking about and some of the research, I would say, trying to disrupt your habits and making it a mindful exercise to think about your purpose. Your. Why every day right when you get up or when you find yourself slipping into do scrolling or some of these habits we all have when we're feeling anxious, are frustrated checking emu.

Was mindlessly whatever it is for us to remind jobs in those moments of what our purpose says. What are meaning is what our intention ideas, I think that's really important for helping all of us live or die with more intense nasty and spend our time in ways that are more closely with the meaning and values that we have in life? Much more like adversary with actually women's right after this brought to you by the Capital one Quicksilver card with Quicksilver, you earn unlimited one point: five percent cash back on every birches everywhere. That's unlimited one point, percent cash back on everything you buy and Unlimited really means unlimited with Quicksilver. There's no limit to how much cash back you can earn capital one. What's in your wallet, credit approval required capital, one bank, USA, an aim

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and we're back just to note here in the sector Half of the conversation there may be a few moments where you might hear a little bit of background traffic noise, while actually speaking, it's ok, you're still be able to hear her that let's dive backing now with actually Wilkins. You may have covered this, but I suspect, more to say about this, but I believe the phrase of yours that the aforementioned lorry Santos used when she came on the show was time. Confetti So can you say more about that listeners may remember what lorry said, but I think it's better to hear it straight from you. Yes, a time confetti is one of these time traps that makes us feel time, poor its term from bridges out, but has also come out of the organizational behaviour, literature and its idea that, although we objectively have more

I'm for leisure than we did in the nineteen fifties and thanks in part to modern convenient, says We now feel more pressed for time. Than ever in my data regardless How much money you have her where you live. Eighty percent working Americans report feeling time poor like they have too many things to do, and not enough time in the data do them and these feelings of time poverty of we as we have been discussing so much contribute negatively to happiness, undermine or social relationships. Are associate with greater risk for cardiovascular disease. We are less likely to healthy or exercise more feeling overwhelmed by the demands of working life and time confetti places central role in these feelings of time. Poverty. Again, when we talked about a little bed, not only does time confetti.

Caused by our technology leave us with objectively less leisure time, because every time we check an alert were being pulled out of the present and into other things we could or should be doing. But importantly, it creates these feelings of gorkum act when we're trying to have a conversation with our partner or engage in a meaningful conversation with a colleague our mind is constantly running to other things that might be honour phone or calling our attention. This creates for conflict and creates his feelings of time stress. My colleague Georgetown has a great set of research studies showing that pay hence enjoy spending time with their kids last. They derive less meaning and satisfaction from going to a museum with their kid.

when they have the alerts on their phone on, because all of a sudden there thinking, but all the other things that could or should be doing in the opportunity cost of their visa, somehow feels higher and so time confetti creates all this goal conflict it's also undermining the amount of waste we have have chips aware and small moments, and I think this is why talk a lot about technology is because how much control we feel like we have over time, is dictated in large part by how We use and how proactive we are using our technology so We have time confetti, then little shards of time. Throughout the day that we tend to revert to tech, sleep, walking, tech automaton, dooms, growling stuff that we could instead use to make our I'll feel much more alive. Yeah thing that yeah. So we used to before technology.

gee. If we had an hour off, we had that full hour off we're not being pulled in multiple directions now, because all of the ways we get alert sire I got an email. Our text messages are what saps we're now breaking up the least in the small bite size moments of time that easily go missing. Some of our leisure time is getting suck way into our technology and on top of it Not only are we objectively losing some of our leisure to constantly switching between whatever were doing and our technology. This is also creating feelings of goal conflict We think we should be doing other things than whatever it is we're doing at the moment. And so this is where having the time affluence to do list could be useful, so the o, whom one of my favorite that ever happened to me as a meeting gets cancelled and so that these gotta be in my top ten zero.

Things in the world right now, so a meaning gets cancelled and instead of just check twitter? For an hour, I could look at my to do list of oh yeah. I need to call my friend, Willie or you're. My friend Joe or you know. Maybe this is a family to meditate. Things that I know that are sorry to be a little serve. Cheesy here, but, like nourishing to me, is psychologically yeah. Absolutely that's exactly what I would advocate for, and I would say not in addition to being reactive, one were afforded with a glory windfall of time. Has a meeting gets cancelled. Also love cancelled meetings for the record and for anyone who wants to cancel meeting feel free I think that we have research suggesting that people worry about cancelling and wearing about asking for a deadline, extent and requested, and this conversation between you and eyes indicating that the receiver of that Kind meeting might be happier than you would expect Eddie so that such a small plug for cancelling meeting

if you feel like you- don't have anything to beat about, but seventy years, being reactive. I think it's also important, and we have research suggesting, is critical to be pro active and not just waiting for a meeting to get cancelled, but proactively pudding blocks of time into your account there were you're not going to allow technology to disrupt you. These proactive lots of time where you're going to work on this important goals and not be disrupted or distracted by meetings and holding to those blocks as if they were your most import meeting with a colleague or a supervisor, and so we ve run experiments where we asked busy executives to put these proactively the time into their calendar twice a week for two hours, the significantly reduces burn out and stress and you also have a planning block of time for thirty minutes a week before your two proactive blocks, where you

I know what exactly you're gonna do with those plots of proactive time, because by putting apply en Bloc, in your calendar, you're holding yourself accountable to following through and you're, not gonna, get to those lots of time and wonder what you should be doing, so the planning is also really important. Part of maximizing the benefit of those proactive time blocks. So I do this I mean, I'm gonna keep referencing, then I'm writing a book. We're gonna, cesspool, gettings thing done and it's not anywhere near done. So I block off from nine to eleven noon, one or two every day, unless it's a really bad day, where my counters been swallowed by other people's priorities to write, that's why I don't need a plan. I know what needs to be done. What I do. That seems to violate your guidance is. I do allow myself to occasional, clean out my inbox while

doing that usually procrastination method, because the writing is so painful. But it sounds like I should drop that. I would say, if you're gonna do- that make sure you're not doing it for more than five minutes as somebody who wrote a book, I can tell you that sometimes there are thousand task that could fill your writing lifetimes. You don't want to get into the habit of old five. More emails are just as one other thing. I think if you allow yourself a little bit of buffer, but our pretty rigid with yourself, otherwise it shouldn't be too much the problem, I know even sometimes easy my work day, we're getting tat kind of fundamental needs year of autonomy and competence, but it can be important. Is start with a few low level task, because that's building up your competence, you're feeling of confidence to get things done before taking on a task. That sounds like right: seven pages or red fifty journal articles,

sounds pretty onerous and difficult to do so. You can build up some of your competence along the way by checking a couple emails, or even what I do is. I will kind of structure my task ended to sanction, so the first they're both say they're, both related to it writing or chapter writing or case writing whenever it is, I'm writing a noise writing something but the first thing I will put on my kind of agenda for that. Writing block is something that sort of easy like us, the references are edit this pair if he wrote yesterday, and I ll start with that, leaving I feel like I'm, making progress and then all proceed to ease in two. However, as the harder more substantial thing, I have to get done that day, just a viable just think about this. You know happy, I'm not compare myself to emigrate, trust me, but I ain't Hemingway famously ended every writing day in the middle of a sentence, or he knew eggs.

nobody's gonna do next so the next morning, when he started again, probably hung over that competence was there because he knew what he had to do and actually I've been starting to experiment with something like bad or, if I'm not actually, writing him in more of a research mode on a chapter or just having something free, Dez left on the table for me to start with the next day, so they can against the Jews flowing, let's drill down for a second on the pandemic, how Taylor. Your advice to the current suboptimal circumstances in which were all living So much of my research obviously was conducted, prepare dynamic, but it's oh really relevant now, so what we re finding is that employees are actually working more now that their working from home, as opposed to last so on average, active data from three million global on play suggest that work days have been

about forty nine minutes longer employs my global, Cerveza reporting more time stress in part, because now they're, both simultaneously being professionals and parents in the same place. So these breaks boundaries. Transitions that we used to take for granted when we went to an office have gone missing in the virtual environment. creating a lot of time. Stress, Strasbourg, conflict and unhappy and so what I ve been advocating for, because I've been seeing this in my data, you know we cut a joke that none of us can things that we should all feel like? We have an additional our free time every day, but in fact the opposite is true, we're just scheduling meetings over that time- where we used to commute, we, sending way more emails were making way more. Phone calls were feeling more stressed and less in control of our time. my colleagues and I have been advocating for building in breaks boundaries in transition.

deliberately into our schedule is given that they ve gone missing. Microsoft recently put our suggestions into practice, and they have virtual commutes now where employees are not able to schedule meetings between eight and nine and instead cannot be logged in until they have taken. Virtual commute whatever that means for them. Maybe it's breakfast with their family. We ve also been advocate, for starting meetings later an ending meetings earlier to allow employees to have these info More social interactions, they have completely gone missing, the virtual environment and not schedule for more social interaction time, because it simply adding another obligation on to employees, Eddie very overwhelmed schedule. As you know, we ve been hearing so much, in our interviews and in our research that people say why feel like, even though I could size during the day would have my boss needs me, so they ve been running in ten minute interim around their house, there, pirate

in the middle there ruddy five minutes or ten minutes every direction, just in case there are needed, and so there is a lot of uncertainty and ambiguity and employees lives right now. We are in an economic recession that makes people work harder, focused more on money and productivity and even less on time off and leisure. We also our feeling bet underwhelmed by the options of our leisure. Like all this work all weekend, what else am I supposed to be doing anywhere? I'm gonna forego my vacation time, because it's not exactly like. I can take my ethical vacation that are usually take every year anyway, and so what observing actually, as people are more stressed, feel more time poor lesson, control of their time. They more demands on their time than they did before, and there taking less of their paid vacation or even unpaid vacation than they were pre pandemic, and so I think this is, restarting to advocate for small, simple changes in the work day, but also more organizational level

and leader led changes to help employs take time off, so that This work from home environment we're all in is more sustainable going for it again. I think we ve been spending a lot of time overlap. you're in reactive mode and going for and into the new year. We have to stop being more proactive in order to make work from home, more sustainable for broader swathes of the population. There was a couple things in there. I think, at least for in my view, will be worth saying. More deserve improvisational on script, dared interaction, is that I knew I miss desperately other You get a little bit of it because I get to go into an office on Saturdays and Sundays. Cause I hosted a show that weekend additions wearing America's. I get to see my colleagues who are also my friends, which I consider B, and we all, I know we all feel this way. This is like a massive massive stroke of good luck, for us ever gets to see each other and have those and script

interactions, but I miss it with my other colleagues who are so many colleagues that I dont get the sea, then I know so many people feel this way. It big you're, saying Joad if you're an employer or team leader dont schedule an hour for that, because it is going to feel like more work instead make meetings. shorter and unclear upper room on the front or back end of those meetings, so that you can, you know, shoot the breeze yeah exactly, I think, leaving time for unscriptural social interaction, is so critical right now, because many of the employers were talking to feel like every conversation has an agenda and, as a result, are not surfacing genes or receiving informal mentorship for sharing as many jokes at their colleagues as they used to others. small interactions that make work and life enjoyable have kind of guy missing. I think one thing that's also really important is that we get

spontaneity and our social interactions that we chat with for that, we don't always chat with and this random bump in the hallway is very difficult right now and the work from home environment. So one thing I've been seeing in advocating for within organisations, is to have random coffee chats see randomly putting people into small go online zoom together and it sounds a little bit silly, but is it really, wait. Wait a mirror these casual, spontaneous conversations that are a source of a lot of joy. Research suggests that these casual Relations are even acknowledgement by people that we don't interact with on a regular basis, bring as much happiness in an average day than a longer conversation with a close friend or close colleagues, some missing. An enjoyable were also missing out and opportunities for creativity. Please spontaneous informal, cumbersome,

since the source of a lot of great ideas, new project opportunities and has really gone missing in the virtual environment. So finding ways like random coffee, Chad, sore leaving space in a day to run in to each other. Online is really important, especially goes on for longer we ve been doing. That is I've to employers. One is ABC News, which is on Disney and the other is ten percent happier, and at ten percent happier we ve been doing this. Some program called donut that runs through slack and it sets you up with some random. I think that's called coffee roulette. It's like you get set up with somebody in the company. And so I really enjoy it, and it's like a thirty minute thing. It very casual and its often people that I dont know very well, but doesn't it I, like your rule or your injunction against you. Employers schedule Time, for unscheduled time, I think is low, it feels optional and spontaneous.

I'm ok with violating narrow got it makes sense. Are time off, you said were not getting her tropical vacation. That mainly really sad because I want to go. I know that we're not getting our way. Patients are why why take it? Why is it so important to take time off So we show, over and over again in our data that employees who take time come to work happier. More engage, more satisfied that employees, who are the most productive employees, are the ones who take a break from their workplace, so they can come back to being more fully engaged so many of us leave our vacation time on the table in one server. that we ran pre pandemic. Seventy five percent of working Americans did not take all of their paid or unpaid vacation, and what I'm here

with organizations. I've been consulting for now is that virtually no one is taking vacation are paid vacation at the moment does not often until we stop to check. When do we realise how tired truly are, and I think it's really important for workplaces to be encouraging employers to take time off in that burn out? Is high teams are running hot there's. A lot of challenges were all faced with economically from a health perspective. This is a very impressive and time and most of us, the ideal worker nor MR push passed any personal concerns and beer, Eight employ no matter what, but I think organizations to retain their best talent are going to need to encourage those who would be the least likely to take time off to take a few days and research sector that the most relaxing vacations are the ones that are very log, taking a few days off three to four

five days can be more relaxing then taking a couple of weeks off in part because of all the work you have to do. Once again, back to the office, if you ve taken a longer vacation and partially because we habituate to the benefits of aid since pretty quickly anyway, so you might as well take a couple of short vacations or take a couple of longer weekends to recharge and recover and to really refrain that weaken like a vacation and do the best you can within the circumstances to enjoy so everything we ve been. Guessing thus far, is building towards this goal of allowing us to go from time, starved or time impoverished. To feeling like we have time affluence, I got an interesting bit of feedback from a listener. Recently the leaders who read it to you, because it kind of

me up a little bit here, it is says high. It seems to me that whenever Dan does talks on the subject of work, the issue he seeks slash offers help with is being too busy and how to find com. When you ve got a hundred things tugging at you would that I had such problems. I used to be quite successful and court, unquote, talented in a creative fields that slumped for many years and has finally died. I feel enormous disappointment with myself for not finding a way to become self directed productive, then creatively fulfil them. I own, I also feel blocked. I dont know if this is something you help me with that arises in my daily meditations and so far goes nowhere or may be damned conducive. Podcast talks with people who understand the listeners who are out of work so

thought and on the foregoing. Yes, this is a great question and it relates to some of the data that myself and my colleagues have been collecting. It is true that time is the balance and time affluence has to do with feeling in control over the ways that you spend time on an everyday basis. That means that people who have too much time can also have a sense of happiness or as the reader is talking about, maybe not as me, fulfilment in the ways that their spending time as they wished? There is a great new paper. That's coming out suggesting that people who feel in the most happiness are those. Feel. Like their talents are being used but not stretched, but that all of us can become bigger and more time, atheling or hit this optimal amount of time affluence. So this is

a real issue, that's going on right now in society there is under employment, and unemployment and research suggests that that can also lead to these feelings of incompetence and dissatisfaction. However, we can also re frame our free time as a way to experience greater com, dense and to engage in productive activity is so in this research. They found that people who were under employed, who said they wish they worked more hours, did not experience, lower satisfaction if they spent their free time engaged in activities that they felt were making a positive difference in society or that were too damn productive. So my very concrete recommendation: this listener until other listeners it might be facing this situation is to find ways where you can spend some of the discretionary time that you have to make a positive sign

to be sure, said society in whatever way. That means to you by filling your time with productive activities and activities that allow you to help those around. Do that's gonna help. You feel like that, free time that you have is more productive and, as a result, you'll be able to enjoy that for time more. There is some interesting research and economic showing that would work under employed and unemployed, even though we have more discretionary time available to us. This can make us feel not very good. might feel ashamed being under point. An unemployed is stigmatizing in our society in particular. So even if we have more time divine here or to socialize or to vote and become civically engaged for less likely engage in those kinds of activities so might feel counter to our feelings. For unemployed right now under employed when of course need to focus on putting food on the table and paying bills. But we should also

think about allocating some of our temporial resources to helping those in our community Cosette can help us feel a greater sense of control over time and greater happiness in meaning, as a result, vague to use the summer. Certain general now working for jobs none covert issues and wrote a book on loneliness and has come on the sugar reform and has recommended for people who feel lonely, which is a separate. Maybe related issue from what the listener who wrote to me his experiencing should also consider engaging in acts of service. because it reminds you of what you're good at what you're uses by the way. It also puts you in contact with other people just to wrap things up here. I'm thinking aloud as we're talking about a conversation, I had known a year or more. I think ago, the great guests Joscelyn K, glide. She has applied casket,

hurry slowly and it's all about what she calls, and I love this term I like, where she's gone with it, heart centred productivity, and I hear a lot of the same kind of notes from you. Although there's a much more research backed aspect to it, where used to be- and maybe you'll tell me I'm wrong here- that your cut a counter programming against the dime store productivity hacks that so many of us imbibe from one source or another does not feel onto yeah. So I do you think I am advocating firmer research perspective to try to take our time off the clock we ve been so train to think Our time is a mechanism of productivity and of. Making money and so much of my research, says we need to undo of that cultural learning summit,

organizational learning that we ve done in our modern workforce. Today we ve been told that ideal workers, one who never disconnects from their devices, constantly available that the best worker is the most response of worker assessed Please it's become harder and harder and knowledge worker professions to understand what objectively good performance. means. Anyway, we ve been rewarded for constant responsibility and work. A holler nature and constantly putting work at the centre of our lives, and so much of my research suggests that we'd be happier individuals and as a society of data on this too, if we moved work and productivity and economic success last from the front and centre of our minds and more to the periphery. I have research showing that countries with a higher proportion of

citizens who value leisure, overwork, our countries that are happier- and there are also countries that better able to navigate economic recessions when the two thousand and eight recession hit countries that had a greater percentage of cities who valued, family and friends as opposed to work, showed less of a negative mental health. Dep time. Poverty is in our fault, where time poor in part, because our organizations incentivize us to work constantly. So in order to live a happier and more meaningful life, we need to take back control of our time, at least the time that we you have available and to begin to recognise one work is truly important, verses, and were responding in an urgent way in a way that pudding work front in centre as two other goals and values that we might have in life. So I think I am advocating for again soon

simple changes around the margins that help us at least take ownership over our bees, your time and to be checking and fully engaged and ensuring that we are. leaving our lives in a way that is consistent with our I use and not just our economic goals, but other goals that we might have in life as well. Let me see that restate some of that back you from very selfish standpoint. As you began that paragraph I started to feel guilty cause. You were talking about pudding Leisure, over work and I was thinking while you and I are both recovery, Morgan's, maybe that's even charitable. I could feel myself defensive! Well, you know of my work. I think this story I tell myself is that my work is impact fallen, world and is important, and I would definitely make our case about your work and I do spend a lot of time trying to balance

the old mother, my wife and son, and tat, other family members and friends, etc. I think a lot about that. But I don't know that I am. I still think me Morgan and so, but then at the end, The answer you got into what seem to be territory that felt a little more a terra firma for me, which is okay, so we or what you are you are sort of constituted. How your constituted but there are many ways to take stock of how Europe These are actually playing out on your calendar and try to tip the balance towards the things that you truly do believe our most meaningful in your work and in your non work? And I and the ball Park exactly, I think, people me wall, it's easy to make

these changes, and I say no, it's not easy to change whether you're a tailor more again. Like I said I a more again it very difficult to change my value system in life at this point in my life, but there are small sum, changes. I can make around the margins to me sure that I'm spending the time I'm spending at work in ways that are going to be the most impact full and that I'm spending the time my personal life in a way that allows me to show up and be present, in the moment and be the best verse of myself to the people I care about, and I think that's what I'm trying to do in my researches to help people makes. All changes around the margins, both outwork and outside of it to live with more intention and purpose and impact hopefully, because what I see in sometimes what people push back on his oh I'll, be

The tailor when I, when the lottery like NICE, one each bs, professor ed, But I see my data is that people were tailors, are better able to serve others because their less overwhelmed by the demands of work and life, so I'm always trying to make argument that we could all be a little bit more time focused or at least more time, conscious, conscious, overhours, and in time on an everyday basis, and that doing so is not selfish. In fact, becoming more time focused and time affluent is pro social, because we are they going to be able to better show up at our work and in our personal lives and contribute back to society? And of course doing that makes you happy here, which is more likely to make you successful and healthy, and all that others a virtuous cycle! Is there anything I should have asked but fail to ask? I think one thing that I get pushed back on some time and I want to just underscore it's come up in our conversation- is just that

focusing on time and being delivered about how we spend time on an everyday basis, is not only for the affluent We can refrain time. We can find time, regardless of whether or not we can fund time. So we can think about the way that were spending- I'm on an everyday basis and we can- ray frame. The way we spend time settings more regardless of how much money we have in the bank and I have so much data showing that people who are the most materially constrained also tend to be the most time poor, because it might be single parents, they might commute to multiple jobs, all over the city and LE very far away from their places. Employment summit, see in my data actually. Is that the most time poor among us, are the most financially constrained typically and that sir,

this is that alleviate time, poverty among the working poor can be very beneficial for, while being to a small extent as alleviating financial constraints, and so the broader take away, Is that no matter who you are, how much money you haven't the bank or what you're financial priorities are? All of us can think about putting leisure and social relationships more in the forefront, our schedules and that people who are financially constrained might stand to benefit the most from doing so bottom line. This is not just for the wealthy yeah, and I know you ve done a lot of work on the working poor. That's a big aspect of your research, so speaking of your research your writing for people who want to get more of it. How can you do so, they can go to my website Well, it's a w h. I l, L and ass dot com all my each year.

Because, thanks to my research paper, is my lives. Research is all there and the book time- smart. Yes, they could also read my book I'm smart and it's a very economical, a hundred and eighty five pages plus toolkit, so shouldn't take up too much time. I think it's a good investment What a pleasure you ve done a great job with this. Thank you so much yeah. Thank you for the conversation in the gray questions. It's been a pleasure to speak to you today. big thanks again to actually really appreciate her common on also I think everybody who worked so hard to make the show a reality. Samuel Johns are fearless leader, are senior producer, dj Kashmir is our producer, jewels doubts and, as our AP are sound designers met Boyton from Ultraviolet Audio Maria were tell is our production coordinator. We get any or miss him out of really helpful input from Tpa colleagues such as Jen pointless, having been Reuben, nay, Toby, as always the big parties

due to my ABC News, college rank ass large ass, go hand will see while on Wednesday, with Jenny Odell the second part of our series on time, Jenny is the author. How to do nothing. It's a fascinating conversation with seal on Wednesday. For that.