« Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris

#331: How to Understand Oneness | Roshi Norma Wong


Today we’re diving into a concept that is simultaneously one of the oldest contemplative cliches and one of the most profound head scratchers — oneness. Can *you* be one with everything if *you* don’t really exist? And, even if we manage to grok this idea, what are the practical ramifications? Actually, this is just one of the many riddles and paradoxes we’ll be exploring today. 

My guest is Roshi Norma Wong. She was recommended to us by frequent guest and friend of TPH, The Reverend angel Kyodo Williams. Roshi Norma is a Zen Master, a life-long resident of Hawaii, a former State legislator, and abbot of a Zen temple called Anko-in. In this conversation, we talk about:

• Understanding -- and experiencing -- oneness

• Removing the binary between relaxation and focus

• Why she thinks we need to cultivate pride and humility simultaneously

• Why she thinks that before we try to solve the world’s problems, we need to become better people

• And why our current moment of compounding global catastrophes presents us with an unprecedented opportunity

Speaking of transformation in the face of crisis, we’ve always done our best to use this podcast as a place to figure out how to navigate our ever-shifting world. Over the last year, for example, we’ve spoken with experts about how to cope with the coronavirus, from dealing with anxiety and grief to parenting in a pandemic to worries about money.

The practice of meditation undergirds all of the practical takeaways you hear us discuss on this podcast–and many of our podcast guests have contributed to our companion meditation app. Our app helps you understand both how to practice meditation and how meditation can help you navigate our ever-changing world.

We hope that you'll subscribe to our app to learn how to care for yourself and others during crises (which are, after all, inevitable). 

To make it easier, we're offering 40% off the price of an annual subscription for our podcast listeners. We don’t do discounts of this size all the time, and of course nothing is permanent—so get this deal before it ends on April 1st by going to www.tenpercent.com/march, for 40% off your subscription.

Full Shownotes: https://www.tenpercent.com/podcast-episode/roshi-norma-wong-331

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
From ABC this. the ten percent happier Podcast Dan Harris hello, low today we're gonna dive into a concept that is simultaneously one. The oldest contemplative cliches and one of the most profound head scratches oneness what does that even mean? What is being one with the universe actually mean, Can you be one with everything if you, according to the Buddhists, dont really exist, and even if we manage to grab this, idea. What are the practical everyday ramifications? Actually, this is just one of many riddles and paradoxes and imponderables that we will be exploring today with my guest room, she normal long. She was recommended to us by frequent guest and friend of TH, the Reverend angel key William shut out the angel like
Joe Rushing Arma is AIDS and master she's all oh a lifelong resident of Hawaii, a former state legislator and abbot of ASEAN Temple called on co in and this conversation which are but both understanding and experiencing oneness remove the binary between relaxation and focus why she thinks we need to cultivate pride and humility simultaneously. Why she thinks that before we try to solve the world's problems, we need to become better, people first, and why our current moment of compounding global catastrophes actually presents us with an unprecedented opportunity. Speaking of transformation in the face of crisis- and I say this before we dive into the episode here- We at ten percent happier have always done our best to use this podcast as a place, to figure out how to navigate our ever shifting world over the last year, for example, we spoken with experts about how to cope with the Koran.
Iris from dealing with anxiety and grief to parent. get a pandemic to financial concerns, the practice of meditation course under birds. All of the practical take ways you hear us discuss on the show, and many of our podcast guests have come. We too are companion meditation up our app helps. You understand both how to pay meditation an how meditation can help you navigate a world that is constantly in flux. We really That you will consider subscribing to the app to learn how to take care of yourself and others during all of the crises which we should say are inevitable and a part of life to make the system being easier. We are right now offering forty percent off the price of an annual subscription for our podcast listeners. We dont do discounts of this size all the time and, of course nothing is permanent, so go get this deal before it ends on it, first by going to ten percent dot com, Slash March
is ten percent. One word all spelled out dotcom, Slash March for forty percent off your subscription. right. Having said all, that was diving now with Rosy Norma russian normal long face very much for coming on. Thank you think. For having me thank you for coming. All the way to this valley is calculated Valley on the island of lawful and it's about maybe fifteen minutes away from the urban center. But does semi rural, and so you know during this time of cover vision with you dad, you know there will be roosters. The background. It isn't true that they only crawl at dawn slight. If, if that's the case, that means it's only on MR, but otherwise they are a sociable creatures. They are meant to be in conversation with each other.
I hear them now. Actually, yes, you will hear them frequently met let me go back. I didn't see a proper hello Dan alone a local authority You allow her to olive ass, any one who may be listening. Thank you so very much for this conversation. Aloha you and really appreciate you come an answer and the risks when my colleague DJ, whose those there reducing this episode. He reached out to you too, to Chad about what you thought you and I could chat about on episode. You said oneness. Why did you say that? Well, I said one S, because the world isn't at the moment and it
doesn't appear to want to be one, even though it longs to be it. So we are seeking a wholeness, and our divisions rather and in our oneness- and there is a fierceness That's associated with that. So it's a turbulent paradox that. Requires our meditation. I like what you said, were seeking wholeness in are. I think it was something like we're sitting wholeness and our separation. Yes, so I might have us and serve wholeness syrup? Fullness of my eye entity, a pair of purpose of meaning of belonging, because I I don't know shit but whole foods and read the New York Times or because I voted for
and am party and our air whatever identity. Building for myself, I get a wholeness from that, but part of the problem. As I understand and I'm kind of inferring gear and you'll pick up and tell me whether my fur correctly is that These identities were building are built in opposition to other actual human beings. It is us so much an opposition ass. It is in exclusion, which I think is a much more complicated we have being then, if it was an opposition is if it was an opposition we would please be able to articulate what it is that we are not for. But when you say it's an exclusion at this whole thing about, we are arising to the full ness only and what it is
that we see in our own world, and we somehow think that the world can operate in that way and this, of course, has been happening for probably a couple thousand years, but what would say, is that we ve centrally got into the end of that particular experiment. In terms of that experiment being able to work out for us, did it ever work What would have been the optimal function of wholeness out of separation? It will be about creating these neat containers where people, I'd, be an transactional relationship with each other. As people's eyes.
trees as gender says. generations whatever it is that you are- and everyone gets to be- who it is that, we need to be, and then you have like ie transactional. Relationship which has either politically manifested or market manner. said Anne you stay in your lanes am interested, but not particular Florentine stir the broad sweep of human history, but I would imagine after switched from being nomadic to having. agrarian and then urban centres we needed these identity as a way to impose some sort of order on society, and so in that sense it might have worked quorum quote for a while, but if I hear you correctly were now cut of reach in the end of the utility of this experiment, I believe so. There are essentially competing theories
way back when I'm talking about like a way way back when you know- and I am not an expert in this- but I am immensely especially curious about it and so In my wanderings, my historic wanderings. I came across just a little bit of a story of these people called the Pythagoreans. and so it's like before the onslaught of what? We consider it be like the higher cool way of thinking and western thought. Western people went through a time period in which there was like non binary thinking. I didn't prevail, I didn't prevail and in some ways you could say it couldn't prevail, If what you are doing, is you work, continuing to amass
So, if you we're just gonna, keep Goin and continue to amass. A mass land amassed fortune and things of that sort said that particular thing hurry. We're just stay any conclave of some kind which helps to explain. If you look at indigenous people throughout the world, wherever it is at them, You know it took a very, very long time for indigenous peoples to even meet each other right. So it's a sip yawns for that took her by definition and If you look at indigenous people almost everywhere in the world, we would have failed very very similar values. very similar ways of being very rich spiritual lives, that were not segregated between the holy,
the lay people every person within an indigenous communities the digital society. At indigenous town would have a particular special tee with, and that which was wholly, and which you would pass on an apprenticeship bases. So how did that come about that? It would happen almost everywhere in the world and what happened in a way that those well thought were unique and yet- You could find the markers of that everywhere, and so there is also something natural I just like it's a natural human kind of for Russia and a way of being too indigenous. It's not as if what happiness someone from Planet Neptune Insert head that protection
Geller way of being in everybody involved, it's a human evolution. then there's also human evolution that occurred that be more higher, call more contain arise, Our transactional or binary more separate air between classes, smaller separated between that which is wholly and that witches profane that which is secular right, and so these things went forward, and it's easy for us to look the more binary system as being the one that essentially one
Candide, one double or when he is not. Oh, yes, not allow any day, and yet that kind of whole has a whole theirs. I car emptiness in its centre that people keep trying to seek an you see that I understand that more people are distinct. Your podcast standards. But just means that in tumultuous times, people are king, the part of themselves, they know is the better part. They know it's better part and that reflection can only occur if there is something there to begin with, that has not been completely exterminated. What is that thing?
it's your original bigness. You were born perfect. Have you heard of this? There is this renegade teacher Cobb, k, B and Katy. I in this is in the Zen tradition, is in the sand. Tradition, sell his here's this man, a gay that and was famous in his time for talking about the unborn mind, so the big mind you're, the one with the big em Who are you know if you are in the star Wars notion essentially there for And so say that that forests, that you are that energy for us that you are Wasn't born when you were born you're, just the physical
If his station of that it always existed, and if it always existed at the moment that you pass that you return to the universe from which your energy came and if it was unborne to begin with, and it cannot be extinguished. then you as a person still have that in you always it's just a matter of it being caught over or hidden. Why denied or there then practice We talk a lot about the habits that you have, and so we have this accumulation of habits from the time that we were born. The cover us over and the interruption of that habits brings you to your original self
Regional self cannot be separated from other beings. it just cannot. It cannot be whole if it is separated its nature. I want to see if I can try to repeat some of that back to. See if I've even got up to hold an understanding it by dint of being sentient of having consciousness. There's something on born in. and undying in us. This sort of the knowing, capacity of mine. The light is on again the consciousness. Is there. Cover over this. I think used the phrase regional being this, Our habits, withers means from the culture
the conditioning from our life, etc, etc. But if you scrape all that away there. Something are there and because it is part of nature, it is universal to all sentient beings and therefore there and at the ultimate level, no separation between me and you or me, and you and roosters, because we ve all got this. I think, if you when I get into the more religious lingo, this sort of divine spark or if you want to just be more scientific about it, just this consciousness. The delay is on inside in some essential way. Anyway. I'm I'm rambling now, but in my close to what you are trying to say yes, and so he is, how difficult it is right for the mind basically to try to make sense of it, because we are my motto
Everybody livery mine in attrition that I'm an in a we discourage people from reading as a way of figuring it out, As I say it, you know that your thoughts, who take you farther and farther farther away from the experience of being ass and experience of oneness, and unless all of your senses are over to who it is that you are an you experience it little wait with your body with the sharpness of what it is that you can take that you notice, when even slight breeze as planned, steel and from much direction. It has come and when it changes direction to be present is to be present in your senses not to be present.
in the coach and thought of your mind. So we say that the body is a much more accessible portal to the right. connection of who you are you, so we trust that more and you know whether or not someone will be able to give you an answer so it, possible that, by talking about this too much worse, in some way doing the listeners a disservice. If you can talk about it as experience rather than as an analysis, then communication you have with someone else, will be through an experience.
His answer the tangled aspects of an analytical mine. So how can we experience one? That's because it's the ultimate spiritual cliche, you don't make me one with everything, etc, etc. How for those of us who take- training our own mind seriously and for those of us who understand that sort of being An isolated ego, peering fretfully out at the world, is to suffer. How can we experience oneness and cultivate the capacity to continue experience it Well that, unfortunately, unfortunately takes discipline, so there's nothing magic about it, but there will be magical moments, so magical moments in which the entirety of war, is it you are feel.
Saw connected, and we can most easily feel that when we are in nature does it matter, whether that Nature Christine or not so you don't we would be literally walking just a little muddy path next to stream and here we are alone walking along this stream just the downtown area and the buildings the other side and our mine is- wandering from the car positions that which has had on the so called it took to law. Of a sudden, you feel like the mud, coming up over your footwear and onto your feet, and just the sense
of that coolness against you and that part where you know that its journey, but somehow you want to feel more of it and then all of a sudden other things will come into you will hear the stream tat you hadn't heard before and the pungent order that comes from that is not clean, reaches you and you wonder how come it is that you had not noticed set before and as all of that enters into you and you settle into it and you get Pass. Your annoyance and you get past your sense of discussing all of that as you,
feel that you end up having a guttural connection to what is there. We need to be in a prestige in place. It is useful to feel this sense of connection through our senses in places that are not pristine, you know. Do we have time for a short story? We have time for a long sort of book, tat so oh, I am native wine, and I am also Hocker, which is a nomadic chinese tribe, and so in a sense I could that I'm actually one hundred percent indigenous from different places of the world, and one of the things that we have for those of us who are have assessed, if our own culture and history-
is that we have a an eagle around it Hooker and we're gonna proud of this saying about been able, to be one with the I now one with the earth on with the lan. This and have this. This notion that it's our blood right and the first time that was shattered. For me, I was Walking down when it canyons of New York city? You know one of those places where the buildings block out this You just see the light. A bar and you know that the sky exists. But all around you. It's like that. There's a cacophony of noises, there's nothing but hardness around you in the fire. distance. You see a single trees, struggling struggling may not even be happy that its there and everyone does not. Pay
any attention to you it's about as far way from my natural environment, as I could have ever gotten ends in that one environment, all of a sudden. I had this strong sense of physical connection and I was pissed off. I stopped in my tracks, as I had that seems sense, like this coursing through me as I do if I am on the side set up a love it mountain. That is, sacred to my people with no, when in sight, but the grasses calling to me and the birds and the far horizon coming in
from the ocean and that sense of timeless ness. That is at the core of who I am, and here in this canyon, this man made canyon, I'm having that same feeling- and I was peers. Haven, meaning that this experience available anywhere and to any one, and not just people who came out of the right womb? Well, no Finally, I was pissed off, because now I have to be responsible for this world too. They had shattered your ego, but it sounds like it just in larger responsibilities all at the same time. It also gave me like that. The first clue, of how much responsibility. We all have
every single one of us, whether we are dabbling or whether redeeming deep into this thing about figuring out our origin, are sought to be more present. Tat we're mindfulness, whatever words are tradition or pathway, it is you use or app beyond field, better about ourselves, immense, immense responsibility we have, because we actually have to get a critical mass of people there if we are to ease and approach the biggest problems that we have, not only as a country but as a world is only from that place. Can we tell the story? I knew
how would I know from reading the notes of the aforementioned dj cashmere put the pressure of this episode. I know from reading his notes from his conversation with you that you really see feel very strong sense of urgency around getting the vast worth of humanity out of a sense of disconnection and separation duality and enmity and into one of more connection and oneness. I want to talk about that, but before Are we go there? I wanted to stay on oneness itself as a concept, because let me go back to your two stories taking a walk one along a dirty stream the other day, the canyons of New York City, and I want to put my. Self in their hair in the minds of some listeners, you might
saying, ok, we'll got a little bit of meditation and is useful, because I can see that I've got a voice, Maybe several voices in my head and and as a consequence meditation, I'm a little bit more self aware and I'm not so yanked around by those voices. But I've never felt one nests with anything that sounds like a much deeper Experience that I have not had while walking down the street anywhere at any time. So what are you talking about? Actually just an opening up of the senses. It can feel magical to you, but it is not. Magic and it comes totally from the discipline if your body practice, so let me describe what that would be so in meditation. There is this focus on the breath and in fact would say
that all of that positioning in a whatever who draw your a whole day nor posture that you have, whether its lying down or sitting down or on a chair whatever it might be, to get your body into the best condition it can be. to be breathing, while you are being still as you can be and you're just giving yourself the best shot. You're setting up the condition for the breath to be both the high moral aspect of what it is there, You are giving life too and thus giving life to you and so situation, even though it has all of this impact on the other parts of your body,
is really about the practice of breath, which is why you can practice without meditation. So. My practice is primarily being an conscious brass for third of my waking hours, and what does that mean? It means that the origin of my breath. Is low. In my body as was. I can bring it I can get it below my belly button in to my gut region that that's the origin of the breath. That's what breath comes from and close down to in terms of the end of the exile by the end of the exile down into that place When that's occurring my bodies not collapsing my bodies actually rising smile,
fine is getting more relaxed. I didn't coming closer into an upright position and so in that car, just press and that its slow What slow means is that my ex here, is slower than my in here and that the entire sequence suppress the inhale and the exile Is under seven or eight times per minute,. Now, when I'm in meditation it'll be under three times per minute, because I've been meditating many years, but I endeavour to have my breath under eight times per minute. on a regular basis for LISA.
If my waking hours can now when your breath is under that peace or in that peace, there all kind Of things are a happy ending to physically or more accurately, all kinds of things that are not having seen to physically. So, if I'm anxious, my breath is going to be higher in my Yes, it's not gonna be down in my got area and it'll be much more rapid. Anyone who is anxious. That is absolutely the physical condition that you are
as it turns out, you can actually reverse the mental condition by bringing a breath down and bringing the pace down it's connected, and you can do that now. What happens if you are doing that? Not only when you're anxious only when you're in meditation, but you doing that when you're doing anything when you're in a pot cast in addition, ass, when you're on that ornery zoom meeting, that's taken so long, were you everybody's blah, blah blah blah blah blah taking out the rubbish, doing ordinary things, just ordinary things, and you bring itself into the discipline of that, then you actually put yourself at less risk,
Of falling into a marginal condition. You are building up a reserve in you A reserve that would allow you to be more generous because you don't get irritated as quickly all of your triggers are not only that aside, they become more, round there not sharp edges, and you know you do, day in and day out and with that brass, a much more sensitive, relax concentration, your breath cultivates That in you, where you removing the binary between being relax and having focus. So it's a! U not only present in a pleasant way, Europe
is it in a way in which all of your senses are, sharply aware, but not as if you are on high alert, you just aware and all of begins to come in to you when you are in the beginning stages of this way of practising. It will indeed feel both magical. And you all have like almost a century overload by the way that stream has always smelled like that. But now you can take the smell you Eyes, have a slight sting, and you know where it's coming from. You can hear the unnatural nests of what happens in a stream, is being here back, even if you cats,
beware that obstruction might be. I M just like a century overnight, but doing this I just day in and day out day in and day out, it will leave the realm of magic and be your new existence, much more a conversation with a rosy normal long right after this staying in full has never been more important. Information is coming in stature than ever. So how do you make sensible start here? I'm bread milky from ABC News, and every week days we will break down the latest headlines in just twenty minutes: straightforward reporting, dynamic interviews and analysis from experts. You can trust, always credible, always solid start here for a b c news. Twenty minutes, every we get smart speaker or you can report
step. Okay, so many gently keep pressing on this issue because I suspect for many of us we may not be able to at least quickly get ourselves to this kind of action. cushion breath awareness for a third of our waking hours, many of the people, listen to the show meditate couple times a week, and they consider that to be great, and I consider it to be great show how, from that standpoint,. can we touch into this action or oneness that you're describing that may still to some people sound, like top of the mountain inaccessible peak experience. So what
say is- is actually more accessible to people who have never meditated. Ok, because if you meditate, you ve learned a pity can a form and some forms are very accessible. You know so, like you could put on an app. and thereby the sound of nature on it and someone could guide you through it, but even that is a form which means that you will become actually quite addicted to that up. it's like. Ok, I need to meditate. I gotta turn on that up, or I know long time, then practitioners- I cite the moment at their knees, do not allow them to sit on the cushion they stop meditating Fouquet, as if it is as if the posture were the point, that's right, the form were also
the ball to that, but if you ve never learned any of that and just say we ll just take a breath down. Does he not feel wearing your body? The press is coming from what party body going up and down for most people suggests area and instead of that, just relax that place just relax it and allow the breath to come down lore in the body and for most people that's more easily accessible if they lie down, if they lie down and they feel like where that is occurring and they allow their body to relax and they just bring them the breath lore in the body and the justice priests lore ray floor exhale longer start with
exhaling longer than in here, and even if you just do that for like twenty brats, you will actually feel different. Just twenty breaths so the mechanics of it are really simple and we actually do a disservice if we essentially compartmentalize into calling meditation I totally agree with that and I'm still- and maybe maybe I'm not getting there, because it's impossible to get there, but I'm still trying to get. Sense for what exactly you're, referring to win your talking about these experiences of oneness or connection. Is it possible to do so?
I been in a way that people who don't have a ton of meditation nor retreat experience can grasp sure go anywhere any place that you want. and you want your with them too, slower than whatever rhythm is going on in whatever that place may be. So in the case of New York, cried walking down the cap, this place the moment. I realise it is because I happen to stop at that moment. I wasn't caught up in it and that's how they experience entered me all of a sudden as visitors, for example, if you travel anywhere on the things that people like about travelling, is that they end up going and seeing things that they haven't seen before eating food that they happen.
He didn't before hearing people talk to lay and all of that, but there are ways in which, You can enjoy that more, and what we would call enjoying at more is that you actually have paid attention that you ve seen experience tat. You stop to savour it. I can guarantee that whenever that was occurring, you weren't breathing as fast. So if you don't breathest fast. Just that one thing you'll end up actually having a different experience. of your surroundings. We have a tendency to do that in places that are not ordinary, because we are so. For us to come out of our reverie
look around. Would you go to the pyramids and not take a look right, and so is like it's easier to come by on in what we call a natural basis. If, doing it in place that you are not accustomed to, but what makes said more powerful Is if you do it in ordinary course of ordinary life and actually making my newt seemingly inconsequential, Shifts in your decision making that will mean you know Oh, I actually did not need as much sugar in my morning coffee, but because I can tasted that was habitual. I can taste it and I can now too
is that it's not more, sugar actually need to buy a different browser coffee, but those seemingly inconsequential small things, up and they add up and the add up and they add up in a useful way, the outer, because, If you are using more of your senses for your decision, rather than just the track of your thoughts. There's so much in there that I absolutely agree with then- and I really here you about- the value of intent, way, slowing down your breath or intentional, just slowing down full stop or putting yourself in Israel circumstances as a way to see the world differently, but I wanna still see it
we'll get you to home in on not the mechanism, but the goal of the experience of oneness itself wanna I'll described you a time where, feel like I may have tasted it a little bit in my amateurish way and You can tell me whether that maps onto your experience or what you're trying to describe here, I won was on a meditation retreat, and I just is still little moment. I member were exactly what. The day was, but I was standing outside the insight meditation site and maybe doing walking meditation, but I had stopped and my eyes were closed. This is a great example of how the the process of meditation or of training the mind is not magic or magical, and yet
there can be magical moments and even in their magic, often for me at least there quite ordinary I just was standing there outside a nice Nightfall day and realise that massive, the food aid. Goes right through me ideas. Send emotions come up and just pass, and I can't go get em again or maybe I can, but there that really the same thing yeah that there's not much here grasp onto a claim as mine. If anything, the logic flows inexorably from that to a sense of connection. Obviously, there's a porous nest, between what I'm calling me and the world. Is that anywhere near the experience that you're trying to point us toward its a bit of it? It's a bit of it, so I can almost guarantees that at that moment that there was some kind of a physical manifestation that
going on before the thought arose. There's something in you know the words he sought yourself, but before that you felt yourself. Yes, that's true! Yes, are the thoughts are just serve weak facts him Please, sir attempts to put some name on actual experience. Okay, so from ASEAN perspective we say stay as long as you can and the experience without trying to actually analyze what that experienced means One of the problems of being a writer? Is that so I have an experience immediately. Try like commodified, so that I can put it down on paper and you know, put in a lot of cutbacks if you think of that, as the sharing of a story of your experience
other than analysis of what that experience met, then among These things there will be more books, for my literary agent will be half a cup is not useful as a cup unless it's empty cup that is, for you can only partake of what is in it, but as an empty cup, many things can fill it some people would experience being a sieve with some panic and others would experience set, as being a new found freedom weird. more to the freedom side of things and from there may arise all kinds of different behaviors about what use should then do
whether you accumulate things, are not, for example, but having strict edicts around that and not as useful as having the experience of being a sieve and then being comfortable that and feeling powerful in that and then in whatever circumstance may arise. You knows that if that feeling isn't with you, You're moving to the dark side if I want to do positive in the world. In whatever way I define positive bettino worm help other people fighting justice. How can I do that? If I'm feeling connected to the people who are poor.
trading the injustice. Well, that person might be you, so you better get acquainted with that mean me. I might be perpetrating the injustice, I'm sure I am, but I'm not sure exactly how you do actually in order for us to create the story of New experience the end, we have to be able to take all under Heaven intact to use a phrase that you will find an senses: the art of war. Now, since was a dollar strategist and the importance of that is as a war time strategists. He came from the philosophy, the dollar's philosophy, in which the entire universe.
interconnected, and if you are in harmony with the universe, you will always go towards the balance of that universe. An estate of conflict is an imbalance of the universe, That still meant that he was in conflict. He was a war time strategies this yours would find him in the mountain somewhere and begged him to help put the strategies together for this momentous battles in which, obviously, There are the people who whose lives it is that you are attempting to save and people who are trying to take that life S. All of that exists But the ways in which you move forward under those circumstances, find the justice of whatever the times might be, cannot be
bout total annihilation unless you are gonna, be able to carry them out, or are you doing is you're in a back and forth between competing reviews and in the case of what's happening in this country that time, goes back and forth between the two is getting shorter and shorter and shorter. Until literally, it goes back and forth in the course of a single president's term and in which nothing is occurring. It's just a battle that words no traction of world views is happening because both I believe that what the other side is doing is an annihilation of the other, there's no end game and that and this notion of that. Somehow, if you want to do
Right by the world that you are a righteous is a recipe for us. just being in the binary between the right chosen. Once who are not hoop also believed that they are righteous. So we all want to do, good and positive things in the world. We all want to make it more. Just but before we other eyes, people and say: well, they are the problem. We might want to look at whether that capacity we all have to do just that. Dad may be the problem we have to actually do a lot of self repair.
In the hawaiian language. We have is two principles, one of his high heel, and that means pride. I just like the immense pride and we have a hahaha which is immense, humility and the sweet spot is having both of US time, if you take where it is, we may end up in a better place the story of As also is the your story, it's your story, so you're being able to do that helps to show that it can be done on a larger basis, but then we need to take it out of the container that container of it just being something it is about our self improvement. So in my teacher used to talk about the danger of becoming stone buddhas,
perfect form really good meditation, very diligent and Cecile, but if you are unable to take that into everyday life, then in medicine, by a stone Buddha does that's what you ve become to be able to create and then to implement and then to lead. Solutions to these really big problems in the world that requires this internal work that, would allow you to be a better human being. Better. Human beings can come up with better solutions. I know you have this strong sense that there needs to be a pretty, is fundamental.
shift in the way we are given the gravity of the problems that humanity is facing right now from plagues to rising temperatures, to war, to polarization to prejudice. However, is to argue that this shift is truly in the offing. Oh well, we're in the sweet spot. I'm not sure whether I would term that as optimism about the outcome, but I would say We are in the sweet spot of it actually being possible because you cannot make really big leaps on this.
we have come to the taller realisation that everything that you have done so far. If you just do more of it, is not going to do it. If you think that all you to do, is to do more of what you're doing now and you can be able to find a way you will be able to survive in who cares? What Anybody else does it swear. You lands, then there's nothing to be done, but if you see what's happening around you. If you this realization of wars, conditions and at the same time you still feel you feel her, you feel paying. You feel like the things that are called empathy, but empathy is almost too smaller word for what it is, and if that is what occurring then you'd say: ok, you
I'm too, that sweet spot that would allow you to drill down do something about it. You know your, First went up in terms of people who download at podcast when the pandemic cat, so the pandemic did for you? What no advertising could, because it set up a condition or by people actually could not get the Source or didn't even know they needed answers and it set up the conditions them to actually then do something about that to go and read something: go and listen to something go in Sit on a cushion once a week, rather than never whatever, that might be, as you say,
The world is actually put us into this condition. That is the sweet spot for our enquiry. Now it's not up to us whether or not we lean into that. We take advantage of that and we listen to that possibility and this without even knowing what might happen on the other side But what I know is that these conditions have been occurring for very long time, but not in such way that would allow such a large amount of the population to justice turn around and look. An awareness is like the first opening. Whether or not something is gonna be able to be done about it,
heard, a term recently creative. Aspiration You know you have your own famous personal Yes about how you came to meditation but it'll without being in that state of trouble. why would you get everything was gone great before that, so I probably wouldn't have global panic attack unpleasant but potentially useful, unpleasant, very unpleasant, that potential yes, it was such a pleasure to talk. You is there something I I should have asked, but I fail to see why here you are the better answer. of that, I knew if I begin mine is not, as an expression, people want to learn more about you access anything you ve written nor recorded. How can they find you,
after many years of refusing to do so. I too have a website. Ok, so if you go to Cavallo coup, dot com and that's k, a w p, L, ok, you dot com, it's a resource site So you from there you can listen to things that I've talked about and see some images and on that site there is a way to send me a message if you wish, I'd like to send you the message of thank you and the roosters for your time, while thank you. Thank you very much Thank you for allowing me into a bit of this ass way in which people are making the inquiry. thanks again to Russian Norma, really appreciate her come
on show they show by the way, is made by Samuel Johns DJ cashmere. Maria word tell and Jan Point too. I recently learned goes by the name of point boy showed up to poor boy. with audio engineering by ultra violet audio and as always, a hearty salute to my ear. News, comrades, Ryan, Kessler and Judge co him we'll see on Friday for a bonus. the english state, what news too much looking down, and I think he was a little too there. How do you feel about reports both Earthward from Basque, his duty an ABC audio, listened to. In plain sight, Ladybird Johnson, a new pact, asked about the power of a political partnership somehow it doesn't show up in the many many accounts of Lyndon Johnson presidency told through Ladybird, Own audio diaries then available. Now, wherever you listen to podcast.
Transcript generated on 2021-03-17.