From eighty see. This is the ten percent happier pot cast down Harris. These are, to say the least, not hospitable times for cultivating the mental skill of patients. Instant gratification has perhaps never been more thoroughly scale. You can order food taxis, shampoo, vote of candles, whatever you want immediately from your phone streaming. Services auto play the next episode of whatever. Oh you happen to be binging. You can ask, SIRI or Alexa for the weather, the latest sport scores or the dating history of Paul Rudd and on a deeper level. Of course, global tumult is trying our patients all the time with the pandemic political polarisation, climate disruption and cultural upheaval over race, gender and more. My guest today comes to us armed with old barrel full of great tools. We can use to exercise

muscle. That, for many of us, is badly atrophied. As you will hear him explained, the buddhist approach to patients goes way beyond green and bear it instead, it about developing a mind that can work in a positive way with whatever is bothering us, vigour control. Ricochet grew up in a monastic environment and Northern India, his father was said to be the third incarnation of a great tibetan master. His mother was actually his first teach her. She was a renowned practitioner who completed thirteen years of solitary retreat before she got

married control. Crochet now lives here in the: U S in southern Colorado, where he has a mountain retreat. Sender called launching jig may sometimes ling. His students include former guests on this show such as patrol Dron was the best selling Buddhist author and control of Russia's own wife, Elizabeth Maddest Nominal herself, an author repay as a new book, is called the peaceful heart, the buddhist practice of patients, and in this interview we talk about how to define patients from a buddhist lands. What practices he suggests for getting better. since the difference between patients and passivity, the challenges he still faces in the patient's arena and the role of patients in both eating and in enduring physical pain. Wanting to share, though before we dive in here recently, I was reflecting on a conversation I had

earlier. This year, will Lama ROD Owens, whose a brilliant meditation Teachery also wrote a book called love and rage, and we were talking about the importance of establishing a meditation practice during good times. I think this is a quote from Bruce Lee where he says that in crisis we don't rise to our expectations, but we fall Sue are training. I don't think that's precisely the quote, but at that suggests that a crisis we are only embodying our training. I think. Sometimes we sit and say: ok, worn a crisis Where do x y see, I wouldn't be really clear and I'm gonna know exactly what to do, but when a crisis happens actually

What happens if I just fallen till I practice whatever my practice was before the crisis. That's where I met. So, if I dont have a practice in its very difficult, my teachers always said you know, is really important to practice during the daytime practice, real heart journal a good times during the times where this not a crisis, where you not overwhelmed, really take advantage of those times, because when something really happened, sometimes we don't have the space to consciously say. Okay, I'm going to pay attention to my thoughts, I'm going to Kris Spaciousness, and all of that sometimes you just don't think about it. Wait. I clip because if you are in a position where you're starting to feel like you have your feedback under you, maybe if you even had them back Are you for a while now could be a great time to start building that level of practice

that can catch you when inevitably your buffet it by crises, whether big or small. As you know, I talk on this podcast quite a bit about our companion, meditation, app on up, which is really my baby. I love that up. You can find guided meditations and also video slash audio courses, all of them featuring some of the world's best teachers and scientists. You can also find short talks, which are filled with reliable wisdom on topics ranging from happiness to anxiety and beyond. We also have one on one coaching from really experienced meditated and those folks can help you keep your practice consistent and of a high quality right now we're offering forty percent of the price of a year long subscription to the EP. The offer lasts until June first,

Hopefully, this discount will give you a nudge if you, if you need one, of course nothing is permanent. So, as I said, the deal ends on June first and if you want to get it, go to ten percent dotcom slash, may that's ten percent. One word all spelled out dot com. Slash may for forty percent of your subscription Ok, here we go now with Jaeger control. Ricochet remember showed great to see you thanks for coming on. Thank you month, then, it's great to be here Not to be here in your show and honour to have you so the new book is about patients something that we all need right now, especially in the middle of a pandemic. How do you define patients? Generally speaking, when we speak of appropriations, it is full of understood largely,

green and bear with whatever is happening, but in but his teachings and the Buddhist practice question may be initially, you might have to kind of adieu or that a little bit was being agitated, all while you're being irritated and why You feel a sort of you need to kind of react when you pass beyond that point. If you could just be present with what's happening, in your physical and mental level, in the emotional level, then the patients is much to do actually with the. How do you actually constructively respond to this situation? he's always done, and I'm always Kostas from this very bookshop. Something you could do why, too, worry or why to lose your temper, if there's nothing, you can do then what's the benefit saw you come to sort of,

splore your own sort of internal in its wisdom, to see whether there is something that you could remedy and if there is something you could remedy then try to sort of get on with that skilful means and wisdom and then not to lose your self or to the kind of emotion over some destructive or any kind of pain, full state of NGO. resentment or even, if you don't like it out, cuz, you should wash it out. Then it's going to be much more problematic, but even if you don't wash it out, if you just kind of stay in that state, you know it's true. It's a plot of your own peace and lot of your own sense of well being so

your try to sort of move on with what you could do to kind of remedy the situation and then come to the other side. So too much to do with you know how playing or south to kind of fine disillusions, rather than a sort of be stuck with emotion, life, there's nothing you could do and if it is a situation that what we all love recently for this Lhasa, some months now found to be sort of in the situation, then you know we try to relax and try to accept the situation for the time being and do our best part of her if you have Hobbes or if you have some other things that you kind of have kept in the background for you to do, then maybe try to serve, engage in those things and then try to see whether you could have time to

accomplished and for the many takers, then I think this is also. As you know, however, it has been a really a tremendous tragedy for the world and all of us, It is also an opportunity for us to deepen our own meditation practice said the boy since he has more to do with short of the application of yourself with your mom. In your emotions, rather than just a green bear with situations top was initially, you might have to start limit that way because something happens, and then you can't immediately sort of far get on with them. internal process, but what's happening in the initial even process. If you have some patches of patient you put sort of no, that is how you begin

so you could find some value in that experience of baby feeling there, but I can walk up. You know you could serve instead of rejecting again, you could feel confidence in yourself that in time subside in time will go away Tom, you look through this, so this isn't it sort of not about thing is actually beginning of strengthening your own mind and your own spit on your own practice of patients. Let me just repeat back to you some of what I heard just to make sure that I've got. It sounds like you're, defining patient the ability to be with whatever is coming up in our mind right now, in a way that we do not react blindly to it, but we can make a sensible wise decision rather than just being yanked around by whatever's happening. Absolutely, I think that's really very good way to put it and then also you know what a right in a moment, and also not to kind of were rejected

and find some value in that you know usually when we do lose, Since then we get agitated, there's a two things, one one. You know we feel like that we need to react nother. We don't like what's happening inside a wise, save, you dont react and if you don't have that and of not resentment towards the experience itself. And I have some kind of positive value for what happening in one's experience as a stepping stone to get beyond that and get yourself stronger and also much more sort of resolve, with more sort of insight into how you could change of sulphur and how you could change pattern

the action, then I think you need to know presentation over now opportunity, so it an opportunity in practice. If something powerful comes up, we have an opportunity to be with it. Instead of doing our habitual thing, yes, absolutely opposed Nada, I'm saying it with any kind of claim that I've perfected the patients, but sometimes something happens in you, feel a little bit Are you feel a little bit agitated and you feel a little bit of an aggressive, moment or that period of time. If you just simply know that in time it will subside, in time you know you will be able to walk through this in time, you will be able to be stronger too overcome this emotion. Rather than become this emotion and act out badly.

when I can, then, with that kind of conscious awareness as what's happening with my experience, didn't I Sweden softens, it doesn't go, we're right away, but it softens and its becomes much more sort of non compulsory and then most of the time to the kind of such reflection. Deeper sort of solicitation of your own kind of others them to know how to approach. The situation in the best way possible.

You find a solution and then you're so happy that you haven't reacted. You haven't made a mess and you haven't cause pain to your own self and two others. Most importantly, and then you know the relationship is preserved, nor any bridges are burned and you know so much happier that you have not reacted saw that initial phase is a sort of a very critical lighting. what practices do recommend for those of us who are aware. We need to develop our patience. I think of breeding. Kick me in a moment and then taking come off to come. Have some space and time two panels, What are your mind and emotions without feeling urge to react right away and feeling kind of her immediate release. You need to do something to follow for all, come that what's going on inside

when you do that most of the time it makes it worse. So you you just take time to kind of either work through with your own in it was I'm all subside. I think everybody has a lot of potential in that way. A lot of times is gesture you know not really that deep, of an angle of the deep of emotion, of an aggression by various items. This is not only related to what do you think you could be our own physical fatigue, I own lack of sleep that contributes to unity sensitivity all your reactivity saw. You are annoyed at you. I deleted Did I tell you a little bit snappy and if you take time to kind of us thought out and come to know, what's going on, you would not really

Find so much in my view, my greatest sort of hope is that people really, instead of looking at the patient's practices, a passive Scrooge Patients is a really opposite of that. It's a very pro active and its very constructive practice in its wake, just practice over strutting. You are mine and your emotions do not succumb to the various factors that sort of like makes. You lose your temper and lose yourself in that amount I completely agree that patients is not passivity. It's not letting people walk. All over you and not doing anything about, it is about being able to work with your own emotions, which is the opposite of passive. It's extremely challenging and also better, sure to you and everybody around you, but I do want to see if I can dig

deeper with you on meditation practices that we can use to develop this capacity, because I think by now having listened to what you have said that far everybody will be sold on the value of patients and instead will be in a place where people are questioning. Well, how do I get this year? I think in the industry, especially the Mayan about his teachings, to have this sort of her tender heart towards all humanity, justice, recognition of how we are all in the same boat and there's no real differences between yourself and others. Seven billion or almost eight billion people on the planet, How the differences, however seemingly is there, is just in outside Indy in Amerika.

Who we really are wishing to be happy and longing to be free from suffering. There is no difference so there, for you know this notion of having us as much as possible. kind of a universal love as you have it for yourself for all mankind and then try to cultivate that sort of a tender heart with depression and actively wishing all beings and on human beings, particularly here on the planet, to find a happiness, freedom from suffering and pain. Dad is really the greatest valuable thing that we have in our human consciousness to achieve and to preserve. I once heard us a few more

I was asked by a student I what's heaven and the master said, love in your heart and then the student knows what's hell lacking that in your heart. So you know being the kind of essential thing now, if you have that, then you have all of the happiness inside of you and There may be some other conditions that can enhance that, but essentially you have all the happiness that you can ever experienced inside of you. Fuck, that being kind of the old training reach up was it's gonna take some time and it's gonna have some trust. information needed. So Indeed the value for patients on its own.

But there's more value for patients. If you actually have the patience to kind of up protect that hot of yours in the first place to have us or offer an ongoing tender heart her tender, towards all humanity, so really encourage the buddhist practice. The matter practice the criminal practice as a sort of fire foundation for the patients to be also done, Can you say more about what those practices entail? Karuna Maitreya, the mud, you practice is a distance I wish all humanity to be happy when you first actually think for me all humanity to be happy me all human beings who are like myself on earth to be happy? You might. Actually,

not feel so much. But then, when you look at inside how you are always sort of like a longing that the kind of unhappiness and then, if you could sort of like a minute same kind of new emotion to company. That for humanity to be happy and then had the same longing being transferred to all human beings who are on the planet, for example, are in this situation with a pandemic to be also happy happy in this, case a you know to be able to be free from this situation and the trap and be able to combat. to their life as a normal and how it was before So there would be the mightier practice then, you know, would be more like those who are suffering suffering. We know there are a lot of people who are suffering right now, with the loss of time

the members and loss of friends and a loss of parents and children in this time shop. To feel their surfer the laws and the pain and then now, hopefully to kind of joining. Then in their sort of state for them to be able to kind of her relieved from that pain in time with being able to kind of a move forward and also to be able to you move forward with the grievances from the loss of loved ones or whatever the implications of that loss has affected them personally, have to have a sort of central, being able to move beyond that. There would be more Karuna you're connecting with the sort of state where they are, and in wishing them to be able to find peace beyond that show. We ve talked a lot about in a practising friendliness,

loving kindness and also Karun our compassion, meditation, still listeners release the ones have been around for a minute will be familiar with those practices, but just so I understand how you teach it. So with what you're calling my trio practice or friendliness her loving, kindness practice, you would sit and generate the way that you yourself be happy and then you would turn that wish out to all beings. Similarly, with Karuna compassion practice, you would try to generate the feeling that all beings be free from suffering, and then, when the feeling wanes you just try to re up it or is there more to the practice? As you teach it Absolutely, I think you said it very eloquently and in a very sad sink and sometimes when you don't feel so much the emotion in if you look at it

Thirdly, how you long happiness than you have an example, what you must have an a loving kindness for others as well, and then, if you don't feel Karuna when you turn inwardly and then how you long to be free from your own pain, you have, example right there to certify Emily for others. So using yourself as a reference to reject that same emotion for the others does the work of transforming your own self centered, mind and the habitual mind. So that's all four very valuable you ve been meditation for many many years. You ve just finish this book on patients. I'm curious! Where is the edge? Were you aware? Do you find yourself personally challenged in terms of practising patients in your own life, one hunting

human being regional, or we have a range of until the emotions saw d challenges always there to practice. Patients and has I age and, as I become all them, what I find is I'm not sure what drawn by the challenges you know. I have a certain kind of record of my own self knowing that I can walk through the challenges and I can walk through this kind of parity, she thought annoyances, all let a bit over. You know sort of a spiteful that comes up so I don't judge them so much when they come up. So I this kind of them a little bit of the Mediterranean, that I think I have the dollar's kantian times there. I fail I really value their patients practice,

I know that in the patient's practice really as an arm. All kind of a keeps my peace in time and then I don't make a mess. in my own mind, I'm able to keep them mind kind of clean and hardly mutability the practice as a main product and then also I don't want any bridges with others, and I don't do anything harmful with a speech. I oppose any other actions. You said body cheetah practices, your main practice. What is that some people want? No one body cheetah is your how you practice it the wooded today's this practice of keeping the flame

over tender heart or the universal love our for mankind, all living beings being kind of Athens off your spiritual part. How do you practice it? Knowing that there is also much seemingly differences in the outside internally? How we are all made of the same mind that wishes be happy longs to be free from suffering, and we deserve to be happy and we deserve to be free from suffering. And there's no really any gap. There's no new difference, so try to kind of our imports, is that what I have a love for myself, that love being spread for all humanity. and what I have a concern for myself, that concern being kind of spread for humanity as much as possible, though he bit Julie and we the unconscious mind we bore you needed

We back, and I you goin- we go immediately dawn self. Can we go immediately beckoned self concern? We spend much of our time eventually in that way, but consciously come back as much as possible to away from that and try to sort of stay with the love all I'm concerned, for so that's a kind of essence of publicity to practice. It was interesting to hear you talk about your own experience with impatience now, after all these a practice- and you sensibly be effective- that guy don't judge myself when impatience comes up in almost feels like the body cheetah, you ve developed this basic goodwill. All beings toward everyone. You can even send that toward the impatience as it comes up in your mind when you meditated, for While you become less and less judgmental with your part Then you are emotions, because

you have more direct contact with your thoughts and emotions in your meditative stayed. So you cannot even possible, always be judging or parts and emotions you have to have some space in Europe. of some you mind, you have to have some patience because they're always you know, and I'm the occurring in your state. You have to have a you know some sons of dangerous transitory. You know I did you come and go and edges nothing but a part buddy emotion, but when someone has not been observing the estate and closely in contact with their thoughts and emotions were not talk, comes the thought. Its of a challenge then does the above all a layer of judgments that we have to its having I thought I emotion than that becomes even

the more problematic challenge so as someone who has meditated for some time, the second one slowly kind about goes away, as you know that you cannot be judging yourself. I just ask I thought I'd just as to how they emotion to their random. They just come up with the conditions. Like me, and you just that be a transitory. Let that be. I just thought an emotion and then you know they're not problem this has to arise. There dissolve ass. Well, I was thinking about this issue of Since, while I was eating lunch before this interview- and I I notice it for me, Eating is an area where impatience comes up a lot. Rushing through the meal, I'm not even tasting it, I'm thinkin about what's coming next and then, as a consequence, I maybe you more than I need it, because I'm not paying attention to how my body, feels while I'm eating give any thoughts.

on the role of patients in eating. Well, I think this is the kind of interesting and thank you for discussion, because I find this somewhat ironic. Because in the east we have a lot of emphasis in eating and eating meals together, meals, beings are most important and then the words, and especially the nuclear family, especially there are many people who have a re sort of pact schedule. It is the less important under its own, like a nuisance for a lot of people. They have to kind of do it funding to be vertebrated culturally, very talking a lot about over now. Don't funding for myself However, I think feeding is important. Neither did not maybe perhaps

like how, in some of the cultures, where its everything in it, the kind of focal point of every day of the families are coming to. You know one needs to eat with some sense of appreciation. I think, in my view, I writing. Whatever We do that essential and that's also once liking it. Have you no connection and the connection? could be created, connection happens and also it has to be created as well, just as not only feasible treating connection is only there It happens organically and then, if it doesn't happen organically, then there is no connection, so I organically connection happens as well as also need to create the connection.

Did you want to create, for example, with eating. You need to create the connection of eating mindfully and as well as also with a deep sense of appreciation further like that you're going to have and of what you're going to put. Inside of your own body, to notice yourself and the day it's just a sandwich or extended meal. That's up to you, but you have a sense of appreciation for what you're going to be doing in this case is essential and- We have that kind of an approach of an appreciation for everything you do with her or Ghana. Clearly, if there is a connection, that's being good, but also creating a connection consciously appreciating every step of the way, yes, you can. We can turn eating into a kind of meditation for sure. I think that's. How did then practitioners do?

and I think, that's a really very powerful in this mornin wall to do with whatever we do, Yes, in the then meditation tradition there is meal times are very much attention, but I think I've seen that in the terawatt a world is well. Let me ask you another personal question, personal in on my end, not yours. My meditation teacher Joseph Goldstein talks a lot about noticing rushing during the day, the feeling of rushing no, if I'm gonna, be able to crystallise this into a question per se, but I do notice, as I move through the day as somebody who has a pact schedule that there's this physical sensation probably along the rib cage. I would say of. Pension then tightness that comes up quite a bit of just rushing toppling forward throughout the day and if I'm not right on top of it. If I am not aware that this is happening, he can diminish

the quality of my work or the quality of my relationships. So I say that all of that, because it seems directly relevant to patients to see if you have any thoughts, turn Buddhism. We call it converts wind. You know is all of this out of some kind of how to make a wind that is turning inside of your body. That right, you apart, that writes your emotions that right you're in a physical actions do sometimes essentially all of them meditation practice as it goes deeper, has to come to connect with the nature, and the nature is not created nature being major. It's not created there do you know if you are involved in this comic wind and being carried by the comic when, with the help of even more with caffeine, in its very difficult to connect with that nature So therefore, I didn't being still, however, maybe perhaps eating

the maritime in most of the cases it takes about fifteen to twenty minutes to completely certain. Let go Rushing on that kind of a speed or that kind of comic went to unwind itself. Then you get to the place where actually this minimum of that, and then you, met with the nature and that's a great rejuvenation, there's no greater rejuvenation than not in one's life. I feel there's no greater healing than that, and there's, no really a greater Sparta. Duration of your mind and your brain. Even here then just being able to sort of I get beyond the comic wind and unjust, rests in the nature, and so You have to know that in your case, how long it takes sometimes I kinda bullshit is very helpful

in our tradition, hugging the knees with your palms, very hopeful because all of the no ends in There- hand saw you in your hugging the knees as yours, on the to as you're sitting Cross legged it sort of has a natural effect of winding down, So if you know that it takes fifteen minutes, you happen kind of our patients with fifteen minutes and If you know it takes twenty minutes. You have to be patient with the twenty minutes and then if you get to the other side, you might we do not get out of that relaxation but then again you rest India, as the time, allows you to do so and then not indulge it, because if you indulgent, then it effects yours schedule need to fix your day. Any defects your life saw, you know, not try to prolong it, but whatever that sort of time you have in hand this kind of I sit down,

half of its working towards it, half of it being in it and then maybe perhaps coming off and then just really being refreshed. I think I'm sure you have that experience. So you have to know how long does it take and then that time not sort of feel impatient with yourself, but as you join up, it takes time to turn down. It's not like there's a magic to get into it right away. Yes, I mean you described exactly the remedy that I reach for when it's possible witches, if I'm noticing that I'm being carried out. by large, unwieldy gusts of karmic wind. One really useful thing to do is to take breaks to meditate throughout the data. Let that energy on wine, so that I can re engage with whoever or whatever is in front of me in a more so,

in a way. Much more. My conversation with cigar control, repay read after this everyone like shopping online but searching for coupon codes can be a bummer, so make saving online. A brief, with capital. One shopping capital when shopping is a free tool that instantly searches for available coupon codes and automatically applies them a check out just download capital one shopping to your computer and let it do the work for you so easy and you don't even need a capital one card to use ed capital when shopping. It's kind of genius. What's in your wallet, savings and available coupons, very commercial support for ten percent happier is provided by better help online. There be, as we begin to see light at the end of the covert tunnel. A lot of people are still feeling down and emotionally out of sorts, you may not feel depressed

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for having patients with physical pain during meditation. I believe you call the practice. Simmering symmetry is an addition. This is built upon the self awareness, awareness of what's happening with physical body and the sensations that is occurring in physical body. oh, what's happening in your mind with your thought process, what kind of now emotions Deb being brought up and how reacting. So it's all observing and not getting a mesh with what's happening When you are observing without getting a meshed, though, of course it's, a bit of challenging beginning, but you could do it then simmering in their experience I experience being transitory experience, dissolve

not, including their physical pain, also dissolve, and then you find yourself in other side with some kind of a sense of peace and tranquillity and that's the power several runs as we're trying to develop patients. Do we need to be patient with ourselves. In other words, there may be time times where meditating affairs pain comes up and I'm trying to be with it, but it, no, maybe I'm early on in my meditation practice- and it's just too much- I can't I've sat with his pain in my knee for five minutes. Ten minutes. Maybe now is the time to you no change. My posture yeah. I think that's a very advice will I need, I think, for a lot of the western people. The cross leg is a very difficult sliding. Sitting on the chair is a very good alternate. And it seemed to. I have no really that major difference on the effects on the mind

as our mind, needs to kind of get beyond the kind of activity and then connect with the nature you ve mentioned this phrase a couple times connecting with nature. Can you pack for us exactly what you mean by that. While we knew beyond the phase of first concentrating on the bridge. Then observing parts then noticing ports are rising and seizing getting a mesh with your total emotions. Then you arrive in a place of your own awareness being expanded. expanded, where there's no really any kind of a focal point, but it's a panoramic awareness and you see your thoughts and your emotions. a coating in your state in that awareness and then it also dissolves in those for a moment. You might not have apart emotion and is just

lucid awareness and it's a present and it's clear and it's a very much for the Flocka. You are feeling in the state of peace, Florida people can you call this as instead of being at home. So that's the nature, and arriving at there is making their connection and connecting with it following your measured in the parts, anyone you mention, the most in Germany are reacting. That nature is always there are like the screw. It is always there while the movies taking place, but we don't connect with that, but can't view everything that happens in our mind from embarrassing little thoughts about whether we need to make a dentist employment to petty resentments that come up to powerful emotions to yes, the awareness that holds it all. Can't we view all of that as nature renewal seated that panorama muck

and then, when everything is short of unfolding and you are not a mesh in them Everything is part of the nature, but when you are a messed with your parts, when you're a mist with you, motions and then do you know when you are reacting. Data awareness is you're, not some aware, It's all happening in the kind about what we call it. Deep mental Falk bet panoramic awareness, this arriving at panoramic awareness. It sounds to me and it may sound listeners those something that's very hard to achieve, but if here. You correctly you're saying as long as we're not in enmeshed in our thoughts, so I might notice that I'm having a series of selfish or petty. but as long as I'm seeing them for what they are then not in mashed, and then I'm sorry

did in my correct in assuming that at that point, that's the natural awareness to which you are referring yes, that's right. I give you another what a mess, yet, The same time, you are able to see them as a team the Tory State that arises and dissolve writing a letter on the water. Then Most probably you are in the nature. I am sensitive to your time. Are their questions about patients, or about Your book that I should have asked, but did not ask no. I do you also very good cushions, and so much are grateful for your sure, you're quest to reach out to so many people to kind of registered entice them too have a somewhat of an internal focus and internal discipline to observe, what's happening,

their own mind in it in their own states and then maybe perhaps find some interest in the discipline of her work with one's mind because to be nor in the modern world, and we know in the capitalist country there's so much focus that goes onto outside. But very little focus was into. what's taking place inside a ones mind. That's almost like you already know it to be a good person or to be a decent person. To be an intelligent person. You know you should almost given that you should know what's happening in your mind, but There is so much that if you are not turning inwardly, then you don't know and the whole work began

by turning inwardly. So you had outreach really in my view, contributed so much to the kind of a changing of the landscape, of how people can be more happier content or find a kind of happiness and contentment within themselves, rather than conditionally being brought. In their lives. So I really you know and such a friend of yours in this way. I know I'm so honored to be in this show and not post patients practice for all any of that, but this practice is in line with that. So you know I'm also there wait for it to be able to join in in that effort yeah, really appreciate you saying that, and then I think you articulate exactly what my goal is, which is to get people while really selfishly train myself to look inside

see what's going on, so that I am not so owned by all of these, as you call them correctly of transitory thoughts and urges and emotions. And then, of course, once I have learned how to do that for myself and I can t learn to try to teach other people how to do it, and that is just another way of describing this quality that you ve just completed a book on, which is patients, and just in closing here, you talk about our modern world and it strikes me he'd, just that it's worth Knowledge is the obvious here, which is that. Our modern world seems designed to train us in the opposite of patients, You don't have to wait a week to see the next episode of your favorite show it's gonna auto play as soon as the episode you're watching has completed. You want to find out what the circumference of the sun just ask SIRI your Alexa, we

in an era where boredom is optional, because you ve got a supercomputer in your pocket. Instant gratification has never become more. Instead, it seems like this. capacity of patients that you're trying to help us build is under assault. It is really does really true. Dog was the more. in facilities and a modern technology has a in many ways, but it does also really thought, just as you said, to Canada any decent, in that, we have, with our own internal process, deepening on now an understanding as well as also cultivating certain kind of morals and ethics. Or any kind of qualities that we in the past cherish and have for much oftener values too

being kind of all, now being somewhat assault innocence, not consciously but everybody's Tom goes to just com suddenly being engaged with the smart phones and giving one's life fully satisfied run by the smart phones, and gadgets that is more and more enticing and how to break that, how one can sort of a separate from that we haven't really come to any good consensus. I think there's a talks about how the social media- and all of this is changing. lives and all of the new rules that we are living with smartphones, running constantly our lives and

bearing that in our hands constantly to check and being engaged. But I don't think there is a sort of far from the young age. Five seeks to people who in the seventies and eighties. We haven't really quite come to find not trying to coherent understanding of how much we should he allowed in our lives and it Not a problem and perhaps a productive and then be some point, how much that is not healthy and it's not even a productive. It's just runs your life we haven't, come to any kind of conclusive, understanding globally and its being sought. A farm boy going and going more and more every day in our precious come on this

being loss to this being a mesh with the biology well said and as my friend Catherine Price has said there were running a global? I believe it's Catherine, you said this might be actually minutiae Maroni, but either Catherine or minutiae both has said that we are running a global, unregulated, unplanned experiment with technology and what it does to our brains in our minds and SAM. It's a very addictive. You know. Yes, it's very decked out. It's a really There are various addictive and I just concerns are precious life on this earth. To do a meaningful things. Get technology can be powerfully great in many powerful ways in another, either verses luddite, but there are lots of challenges as well

them is, of course to patient. So I appreciate you come on the show and giving us and tools for boosting our capacity for patients. Thank you very much. Thank you. So much then, it's great to see you and best of luck for all your foot, thanks again to repay, really appreciate him come on. The show is made by Samuel Johns, DJ mere came by to Morrow Maria were tell and gin point with audio engineering by ultra violet audio and as always, a big hearty shout out to my guys from ABC News. Rang Kessler, Josh cohesion will see on Wednesday. We have a fascinating episode on tap, it's on burn out and we get a repeat get

Her name is Leah. Weiss say that there was nobody body. This is Elsie Grandison here to tell you about my new podcast. Abc audio poured life out loud. This shows all about preserving the history in honouring the contributions of an old beating you community, each week, I'll talk to some of the most fascinating people, paving the way towards a more inclusive world. These conversations can get heavy, but this shows also gummy. Bill was so much joy and I mean, after all, we are car gay people, rights of Gouty, some happiness in there somewhere check out life out loud with me, Elsie Grandison, wherever you get your podcast.