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#38: Eileen Fisher, Fashion Icon

Eileen Fisher weaves mindfulness and social consciousness throughout her multimillion-dollar clothing company and in her personal life. After being in business for over 30 years, her collections are sold in 65 EILEEN FISHER shops across the country, as well as department stores, and her company backs several initiatives focused on using sustainable fabrics, human rights for garment workers and EILEEN FISHER employee health. But even with the daily stress of managing a clothing empire, Fisher still begins each day with meditation.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
So. I invited Eileen Fisher on you're gonna, hear from her I'll introduce her in a moment. She's, a huge. in the fashion industry. And in many ways I thought to borrow a phrase that I used in my book. I thought that this interviews, gonna, be catholic, go to animal species transit one other who are like not of the same species like like a lizard trying to talk to a goat because we're so different buddy these incredibly interesting and I learned a lot and I think, you'll hear some huge areas of of overlap. So here you go hears only fish from ABC. This is a ten percent. Have your podcast I'm there are going to start with a question that I ask everybody. efforts which he held when, where why did you start meditate great love that question so I think I am person, whose sort of always been kind of a seeker, I'm not the
A little different type in Europe is that of targeting, maybe I'm thus at a tree hugger, once, you got him, after a little so I'm gonna. Do you mean Finally, I should like you to think we're. Gonna grab you, but I used to work. People like you. I make fun of trying to do it with a loving I now you Delia Hysterical door it anyway. So I can surround aside. I do my things I started doing therapy years ago, journaling and all kinds of different sort of seeker. Ways to know myself and I trained her know who I am what I'm doing and why I M doing it and you know, what's impacting man all those kinds of things. So I think around fifteen years ago I was probably on my first yogurt and I have really done yoga before that, and why
doing yoga. We started always with might with meditation for half an hour every morning, and I was just kind of taken with how blissful I felt I didn't know it was possible to be free of the chatter in my mind and size, love that but then I went home and are committed to five minutes every day cost of your represent because most people, their initial experience, meditation, is not bliss like torture right in Africa you're, really seeing how crazy you are. What what is your mind like that. That was awesome for vote will keep in mind. I was on vacation in Mexico so that contributed to it and we're meditating, overlooking the water and assess politically gorgeous then I did yoga right after that. So it was this kind of and then we went swimming and you know beautiful meals and all those things. So it was kind of a whole package
it was later and when I got home- and I tried to do the five minutes that I got in trouble and that I was not able to follow through on, I tried- I went back and other for five years, and I, I tried really hard to anchor at least a minimum five minute practice and for five years and wasn't very successful, and I think for executive reasons that you're talking about I would face my self and my own mind that was pretty chaotic the collision with reality right. You really see how crazy we are. You crazy, I am, I still you know, even after years of meditating ice to wake up every morning, crazy, killing, crazy and I have to. I have to sit up and meditate or our my mind will get the better me. So it's the first thing you do. The worst thing every morning will cheer. I didn't finish how I got into it, then how ex but go ahead. I just want to say your defence. If you didn't wake up a little crazy out degree.
yeah, given that I was crazy, right Remy, given the size of the organization you're running, got just the amount as somebody good people in Iceland on shore, but when an issue reaches you idiot, happily, a probable s. True, that is too so anyway, adjudged vision has, of course, as I just wanted to say, that your defence Bailey back your story. acknowledging that load that I carry it? Is this overwhelming some further? I want to add. I want to ask you about that and what what whether meditation helps, but near by anyway you're you're telling me. So you did it, you did you. five minutes a day and night and I go right over a five year period. I kept going back to that retreat. I do yoga classes and I tried meditating and I couldn't I do that.
In the morning at that. Couldn't I couldn't so to anchor it, and then I ended up at the chopper centre about ten years ago and I did a program called emotional freedom, because I knew that I was like. I was triggered too easily by things and emotionally kind of hijacked too often in my life, and so I get problem would become some thing in my mind, and I wanted to get free. of the emotional chaos that I was in, and so that's why I went to this programme, but of course, what they taught was meditation, so warm, basically what they said. That really worked for me was to get em meditate first thing in the morning. They gave me this phrase rise, peed method, and it worked at work that may be the only depart, COBRA catchphrase that I, like you have robbed
No, I mean I now at work, yet, no, no, actually, that's probably unfair to duplicate broadly says a lot of things, but I also like a mix of malaria, so that work for you and at that point in its it stuck at stake- and I ve been doing it ever since, and what is your? How long do you go? so I go between ten minutes and thirty minutes depends on what else. I'm doing so. I have to do yoga in the morning to because I really need the physical peace and so I'll do yoga ferment of ten minutes and I'll meditate for a minimum of ten minutes. But if I have more time I try to do thirty, but many days I don't with thirty, I do ten and ten. Usually what is What is the actual technique you're doing when you meditate? Ah, I cannot get Oh, when I first started at toper center? I got I started using them a mantra awe and just kind of repeating the phrase that I remember what the phrase
and then I got involved with them kind of buddhist medicine and doing I went on a seven day, silent retreat, probably seven, six seven years ago, when we were in Colorado, it read feather some ok, yeah abolished energy, were, I dont, know that place specifically, but the shambolic centre was founded by show game. Trumpery Zeus famous and infamous at the same booty tibetan monk who I took, the robes often lived the life. right, but has a big following that remains to this day I had a lot of friends who were war active member, how good sir, why yeah that's good of to compare notes? We actually do that on Sunday morning, we have a group that meets in our office in this in the Westchester. Additional biographic, Somalia to them as well I who profiled you for mindful magazine right bury boy.
It was a close friend and divide. My some guy he's an amazing guy. I call him like the beat reporter for my phone like he's he he really is. a guy. You would be covering City Hall in the Dayton in some ways, in some ways, but that he knows everybody in the life one that is actually his home town is Pennsylvania, where my ex husband is from. Oh really, town in Pennsylvania, Jihad working class vibe, kill him like a working class, journalist vacuum, but he's also, as are almost all working class journalists. I've met really sharp, really smart. Illegal again and he's a long time shambolic practitioners, I think I've taken.
the stray narrative Now- and I would say that was a fanatical to do with him. I liked him. I recommended they're ready if you can find a pdf pdf online. I read it and one of many things are ready in preparation for the new WWW and Michael magazine of gets. I believe you on the cover. Yes, your cover girl got any magazine is putting you on the cover, its that's a good thing, especially since you didn't, mindfulness were now getting into a real canyon here, but Fulness hasn't had a sort of assent house organ. You know me like a set of central repository for ever and mindful magazine has really done their language and broaden out more than in the secular world, absolutely painted accessible so so you started doing shambolic meditation. Is that will you still do yeah? I do
Basically it's just following my breath and trying to keep bring my mind back to following my breath, because even now, after many years, my mind, as you know is it is constantly needs to be pull back. So that's what I do and I also do a loving kindness, meditation some mornings mornings, and is that That's the you learn through symbolic or elsewhere. No, I actually learned it through fibre, Fredrickson sure, heavier issue. Scientist I blame or researcher of some sort of some sort, yeah yeah I've heard her name. I like to point out her book as when I read that was fantastic. She I think now speaking from ignorance, yours, I just wanna, be a price fixing, Then some work with shared Salzburg, who is really a major proponent in world for loving kindness, meditation. That's right, you love someone
as you know, and I have to say, as as a as a life nihilistic, sceptical, sarcastic, wise ass, I I don't. I've talked about in the pact before me. I am a real believer in loving kindness Mediterranean, which is this practice where you systematic, EU visualize people and systematically send them good vibes, and I often make the joke at it it initially. It sounds like Valentine's day with a machete to your throat. It's just really like in forced gloominess, but science weren't shows it works and it works and interesting way it has health benefits. So it lowers the release of stress hormones and things like that. But it can change behaviour and so, for example, children preschoolers. Her taught how to do this kind of meditation or more likely to give their stickers away two kids, they don't
Paul House really sweet at the genocide of the father of one and a half year old. I need to get around the teaching this kid because he won't give me anything can say for myself I more I'm. I confinement of welcoming people in a more warm way. You know even people that I maybe don't feel comfortable with her, not sure if I actually like, but I can, but I can feel him so energetically that I feel that I'm more able to be with people. What do you think that is? Is it is it is it I think I mind got tricked into I don't know I don't Actually, no, I think it's practicing that that particular meditation than I do think it. It shifts something mix, it's sort of like a trick, your minds like laughter, yoga or something they say that it. Actually, you start to feel happier- or I noticed you interviewed end-
Cutty, yeah yeah other? Did you change your body power posing? I ain't change your mind. If you change your mind, you change your behavior. I think I think it's almost like tricking ourselves as that strength, or you could say training yours raining, that's better. I, like that better It may be a mix of the two, but I wonder you know sometimes when it as it pertains to marvellous, actually loving, kindness, meditation and behavior change. Is it Obviously, your training, the part of the brain that is compassionate but there's a cognitive component to like when you see somebody and I'm sure, in your line of work, you see a lot of people, some percentage of the market to be difficult people for you. Is there a US and all highlight, of course, of course, but your life difficult persons? My son, therefore, is that fair enough how measures on twenty seven october-
So good age, difficult enough, I have- I have a son too little for now that I'm a little woman. I have let's talk about that too. At some point: parenting, yes, the there, cognitive component. You because you can see I don't know, maybe this is kind of what you drummed into us they're doing the practice and reading about in learning about a you see that, even if this person is difficult for you We want the same thing you do, which is to be happy right, not to suffer, and that is it just a useful in Electoral refraining of the thing that's good like that, what rain what Other impacts. Did this doing this mixture My fulness, meditation and loving kindness have on your life because my son. You have Ex husband also run this Goliath of institution. So what
how did you find it useful? Well, look I mean I run our relative. I have structure my life so that nobody reports to me, so I don't want anything so I am sitting for someone who has twelve hundred employees, that's that seems like a guy at them, an institution to me at least here. he had is I guess that impacts but I see is that I think I think I'm different. I think I'm able to show up in a little more whole way, and I think that it's affecting the work. I think
work care more about the work itself and not just a product that we create, but the whole of the work from the the the way people work together. The way we treat each other, you know the way we try to help create an environment where people can grow and also the way we treat the workers and the way we care about the planet. I think that all of those things have have sort of shifted and I don't I don't know I mean I meditate, but I think it's more than that. I think we accept an off you know, but in the workplace we We ring the bell and a moment of silence before meetings. Did you hear about do hear about that? Address that really Are you like knowing God that so weird? No? No! No! No! No, I mean it. I mean look and probably, if you told me that eight years ago, when I thought it was weird because that was before I was not happy I'll- do something really we're going on only they maybe maybe, but now I think you I debated,
five meetings, the eye of a little company that teach people how to meditate through an arab- and we don't do that at the beginning of our meetings, and I think it partly because culturally were tried, we're China position. as you know, meditation fur by people who are not weird rat, you don't think they're weird ramp checks. I like it. Yes, yes and its for any one meal. It is for everyone and love what you're doing. I thank you, and I presume that point because I think to taken out further and to let people know how helpful it can be.
I want to say one of the thing about the work situation cuz it's too much as you want. Well, I think, what's really interesting and I think it is this kind of idea of stopping and you know having a little space and creating awareness of what are we doing and why are we doing it and how are we doing it? How can we do it better? I think I think it's the kind of wreath reframing that needs to happen in the whole world of work. You know, I think that we can make a much bigger difference in the world through the workplace. If we change our level of consciousness, you know so that
we actually can tap into the energy that different that everyone has an and the positive energy, rather than a negative in the crazy minds that we can bring to things and all our weird patterns and passed. And I have this concession, he says it. Ninety percent of what we bring into the workplace is our childhood patterns and so were always acting and being triggered by people, and you know all kinds of weird things you know, but if we could free that up- and we can get that other ninety percent of energy from people than we could really you know, we could really use the energy of people in the workplace to to really make a big difference like what you do well. Thank you. I think what you said is a thousand percent. True. I guess the question goes back to what we are discussing before. How do you introduce it in a way that in the high seas and weird right right? Well, actually, probably when we did. It might have seemed a little bit weird, but we have
culture that you know we drawn in a kind of, I think, maybe the kind of clothes who make the kind of though the way we work, we ve tried in a certain kind of employee that sent tends to care about well being and these kinds of things. So it's not so weird and our environment, but we had this consultants who have been working for us for many years and they now take the practice out into other organization and they don't call it meditation or even mindfulness. They just say it's a moment to pause before starting meeting just take a moment to pause and see you know we need to gather. You know we need to let go oh of where we came from the last meeting or in a word about whatever else were worried about and just be present to this meeting into this moment. Maybe you could call it a Saturday, brick right and an alive people do thou people do different things. I have a sceptic in my office. He says I count to sixty afrits family
and that's ok, you know absolutely and it still. I think it's still gives you a little break and other people say God. We forgot her ring the bell You know we need a moment and are sometimes middle of a meeting why that was really important idea, or that was important, thought and some almost say. Let's just take a moment and I'll ring the bell- but how to do it, and so it's not weird, and so that moment of pause or that sanity break. Let's take a sanity break, or sometimes a stretch, break like when people do that levy. Weird we do to bring your all when you ve done it all. You got Messiah nervous, walk around the office, you're yea, I think of you here for you. You set the tone of for culture in the companies
somebody named after you, people are drawn to you. I think I think it's where they don't come, probably not probably not, but for other employers. I think it's trickier, and then you get it the whole issue of secular rarity, right and an hour you enforcing something on people right right and weird. To actually helping you with your goal here, but we're trying to actually go get people to go deeper to actually really work on. There other night? The ninety percent that hold us back in. how do you get them to weave? I recently started learning lab enough you're aware of that, but the idea is that people go off site and work on you no purpose and in It meant something I'm interested in what you mean better I mean like how do we show up fully in ourselves in our bodies- and you know
and how do we notice what were feeling and thinking and in a hot? How do we keep referencing ourselves, our own bodies, in the midst of what is going on. So how do I know like oh Emily, intimidated in this conversation or I'm a little uncomfortable double you're, not a lot and other data. But often you know I'll find myself in a situation where I'm become aware that I have just shut down on or I'm not listening, really hearing what's happening or or not bringing my for self to the mind. Not responding like one of the things. Maybe this is
have this brought my shut down, and I, like I can't hear- or I can't speak, sometimes because an account bring my voice to the situation, because something has scared me or something. So, I'm learning to notice in on my patterns of childhood pattern for me of shut down. That's how I coped with all kinds of difficult situations and my family just set down in all hang out with myself. So learning about that and and actually learning that I can stop, and I can make a different choice. Oh I can actually show up. I can actually speak up here. I can actually listen better. I can actually asked that person to repeat cause. I just and sometimes I do say well- miss that just repeat that. Could I just really wanna hear you and an endless realizing that I in oh, as I become more aware of
What I'm feeling noticing inside that I can make different choices and then, in doing that, I show up differently. I can even I can make different decisions. Like I told the story recently, I will in the midst of a shift around our leadership group and hiring a few new key executives, and I was interviewed marketing people and I found myself like you know, noticing, like being able to step back a nurse. Woe, I'm shutting down, I'm actually uncomfortable, I'm I'm afraid of this person and so she's really smart. She really has a lot of background
We even know how to ask questions, and so I count myself doing that and I was able to go to myself. I missed a fair amount of that interview, she's pretty interesting, but in the past I would probably like now I didn't. I didn't really connect with something didn't feel right, and then I realize now that was me, and that was my fear, and that was me shutting down. That's why I have two words. I said I think. Maybe we need to interview her again because I don't think I fully heard all of what was happening, and so now I'm not going to finish that whole store. But I think we ve created a whole new path of for me, I'm more open to people that I might have actually not lead in to the company, so I think it's gonna be. I think it's can be huge win for the company, because I am able to kind of reference myself in an open up more euro strikers in your dog or yours. We set up there, you said in a very charming way at the beginning that you
get your baby that have version that I cannot make fun of once in a while, they were saying the exact same thing. We address use different language that I wouldn't probably say embodied but ran, but its eight. It is a complete. is a super legitimate idea. If you you're feeling, we call them feelings around, you fail them in your body, live you're, stuck in your own head and you're, not in touch with whatever is happening in your actual body right. You are going to miss stuff and you will get trapped by all of your conditioning, all the stuff. In your past, all the stuff you worried about and so what you're telling my right now is completely commonsensical right, but I'm saying it in languages. The less accessible, so that no one will be able to make to me, but I'm just one person. Maybe I think it's gonna be incredible, accessible them lots of people there. I dont think
This was not a critique at all. This was more like it. I think we have, The exact- and we have very similar views on these issues is just a matter of we made. You say it differently that debt and that a back to the embodiment topic of the Commonwealth, but everything about the language is really important. Bury talks about that and money in a very boys from mindfulness. Mindful magazine, talks about the right lines it makes it accessible. Some more people are invited insulin, not shutting people out. He add me. Do a joint call him with him, something like seven waste talk about that station wellbeing, annoying I've had great so yeah it is it's a trick his trick what I do and you may have to go ahead, I asked for more about vineyards and no, please do please ducas. Then I have a follow up question after that. I cannot remember when I was concerned wash. You declare
I ask you again to it and that's why you said you were trying to get you. You said you were trying to get in the direction of getting your employees to go deeper and one of the things that you lad. You talk about embodiment, that's how we got him by learning less I'm an exact leadership and show how do you? How do you draw what are you as an employer drawn a line between being the employer and being like psychotherapy, the only and all but you're providing people with things that most employers down in might see as like beyond repair. In our guide, right, well, That's the way I see it is that if people get freed up and we can sort of get this other part of energy, you know that that's actually held in there.
it gets in the way, the obstacles in all of that? If we can free that up, then it's good for business, see she knows, how do you like me to talk about it? You know, and it's not, it's not the fallen engine for me a kind of its deeper, because I really care that if we fully engage people in deeper ways, they're gonna do deeper more into work. They're gonna bring much more to what they do and I think that's what our company once and I think that's what the world needs. So what there's no more exclusivity, hear me, motivations and interesting thing, because we can beat their Eliza level. I likely frequency. I wasn't thinking that that word, but that's exactly right. We will win we? I feel like it? If I think about thing, decisions hijacked again unhappy, fine, let's not brought a real language in an absolutely wrong. I think about it. Dizzy things and I'm workin on our decisions are making are in and I was think there's like a spectrum of motivation. Sometimes ranges from crass
to really high minded Y know Like my voting the monster, we got to feed the monster of others as true that east of here the basic part of every business, certainly in and we could argue that by livestock, but not at the different conversation will had. I want to talk about that. There are so many things I want to ask you, but feeding the beasts in our will my my leg, work and journalism really means that we have these shows. You know two hours of mourning for good morning, America, half hour of revenues tonight and half for night line and we need to feed that beast. We need to feed the bees. We re at content for that fact that those shows- and so you can be really focus on getting the content for overnight, showed a deed. Then sometimes that can create a tunnel tunnel. The right right, that's good, but in terms of tournament close in the club or shall we have defined line? Shivering lies, we gotta do it and customers want to know what's next, and so we have to do it, but at the same time
You know how do you have aroused in Vienna? So how do you keep the quality content? The way you want it and not compromise, and at the same time you know get the work done and meet the deadlines and an do you need to do to keep it moving yeah feed the beast, while also having the large enough vision to and view to say we need to set up a learning lab or eighty two duties for employees and the unequal motivation. I just what I was going to say like Ebay. If you take writing my, I wrote a book so where an eye So it was my motivation I wanted it on. One level is pretty high minded. I wanted to make meditation accessible to millions of people who would otherwise not like it and you know it built my personal Brandon summarised right. So there's a sum that is not some. That's part of my motivation for doing now. Isn't
if that I'm super proud of right, but some of it is- and that is you know when you talk before about why you're doing this kind of deep work with your employees Reich, it can range. Hey. I want got for business and for business to these people. I care about around me every day than to be happy exactly sought. Yeah, it's can be win, win, win, can kind of get at all. the other thing you do in your business. I don't gamble. I ask you about the ten percent: have your concept but Gunnar Nanogram, ok, and then you can tell us more about my business, so says they about ten percent happier and- and I wanted to ask- you- are you'd him percent happier. I view now is first of all, it was a joke. It was a joke, but my view now is that the ten percent compounds
annually. Yet look any getting out of here and happier. Of course I am terrible at math, but I can think about it geographically that there's an x axis. You know that runs horizontally. I think I can remember but anyway, so we have this happiness set point right. Then ecologists say that you know if you think about a graph and whatever is running horizontally if they that it gets the x axis, you debt, we good things happen and we tend to go above the. Set point cycle, but then we revert dammit eventually in bad things, happen we go below and become, but will we get over it? We come back to the happiness, a point. I should feel like what meditations them for me as it may the high higher right but not a wage. Is that I'm not so busy thinking about? What's next right, we enjoy in the then we're having a kid. Is one really enjoy that. Having again,
and then on the lower stuff that I feel it helps might with me, make the trough shallower because I'm more resilient, less prone to use. rumination about my problems and then when it also does, as it moves the happiness appoint up. Let's call I like that so. One of the things I have observed is also that I notice that, though I'm happier, I am also sadder when I am sad These are actually feeling that actually feeling it yeah. So that's it. That's an observation, that's interesting to me. It could also It is also true, I feel like there's an adolescent stage of practice which I'm, U heavenly and where'd. You see how crazy you are right and like
you you're seeing more. You know you're, seeing a more than I do, because before your account be no hiding it and that's an awkward letting us, I see it and that's absolutely assets not for the faint apart this meditation at certain points and takes courage. I think it does. I think that's why it was those first five years hard to do those five minutes, because it takes a certain courage is to be with yourself and the weirdness that we are. You know I mean the Kanak mind Anna strange things I mean I still like. I was telling earlier still wake up every morning with this kind of anxiety and strange in our thoughts where we know like
worrying about problems and until I sit and meditate I can't gonna get a handle on it and its low at the meditation maker. Go where no? No, no, that's why I was saying about ten percent happier its doesn't make it go away, but you you can handle it better. You can be with things that you might not have been able to be with. I think, like I often talk about my mother, she was lived with depression. You know, and it was really hard to be around or seven kids. I'm blame Redmond depressed too, but you know she always believed that the only way to cure her depression was to get the doktor and get the medication right and if the medication wasn't right than she was going into another depression has always worried that that big black caught cloud was gonna descend on her again, so she never felt she had any choice in the matter and so for me, that's what most interesting about meditation is that it gives us the opportunity to choose to say that I don't have to live in the state of depression.
I have a tool, its powerful. I can do this or I can do yoga or I can eat differently or I can change my relationship. If it's not working or you know, I actually have a choice that I understand the me your mother's, getting frantic about that without the pressure of it, I've had had as its bleak it would do anything to avoid it. Didn't you in your mother just didn't, have the tools tat we offered or anything else, I'm I'm guessing! That's true at sacked freemen drugs. That was it you help who she was in the dark engine back to the seventh guess: yeah of course, of course
So some were tied him into changes have no known as if you use your like batting a thousand everything you're saying is interesting. I just wanted to make. I wanted to get back to your running the business, because the other thing you do aside from it sounds like a great place to work because you, as I said before you have, adaptation rooms you ve got to have people come around given massages, you have all this profit sharing of re profit sharing and sadly forty percent owned by the employees. Oh really, the area. I read something about at least ten percent of the after tax money went back to employees when five twenty five. Now. Ok. So aside from aside from be very generous. You, dear employees, you a lot of work on the supply chain on the condition than its sustainability. Absolute less
now, I want you to know what I see the why this makes sense from a global perspective, but doesn't make sense what you're doing from a business perspective. Ah. Well, I think, depends on how long term you think about business. You know so think of it. Just stray from a business standpoint that we need to protect are our brain, and our image if you're, just crossly thinking about it from that standpoint than we do want he called out? For you know, donations and are factors that are not consist. With the way that we present ourselves. So that alone, just PR reasons: This is a business reason to do it. That's not what motivated us in the first place, I think really cool in from you know the again, the kind of people that we draw in our company that just are more willing to open their eyes and see in a bigger way, and you know didn't like things that they saw in the factories and that we know the weather
where people were treated or does things fair, pay, health things of that nature that you know we wanted to make right, and the same for sustainability we have probably I don't even know how many people in the company across the company there probably fifty people who are regularly involved in our sustainability efforts in and actually what does in terms. Business is those people are actually more motivated. You know that sustainability Embasadora or if their, they feel that and its true that their works more meaningful. If they're, not just producing who's that are hurting people. the way there being made or that are heard in the environment, so they can feel they feel more meaningfully engage in like there actually making a difference, and so they really care to teach their farmer how'd. You know she had a man work with a sheep differently or work already Org Farmers are the dye. Houses are always looking for a way
is that we can make things different and better, but but isn't it Wouldn't it be for business hack, I would note that wouldn't be cheaper would be better for your bottom line. If you didn't take all of this care. Ah I don't know, I think, Only in the total long term no would be my answer. Yeah. I think I think well. I think you can look in its in certain ways, certain things, are more expensive. Like organic cotton cause. Fifteen percent more, you know things like that. It does cost more, but the loyalty. I think that the customers you know and bring when they in and they might they look at a garment, they want it and then they will oh that's kind of expensive organic. I can justify that. That's something mean he known and maybe at first they didn't care and there
more and more be drawn in, and care and and feel proud of, supporting a brand. That's trying hard to make things right So I think there is a long term if I'm lucky to be privately owned, because if I had to report quarter, earnings all the time and justify you know these kinds of expenses might be harder, the employees like you know. We had a meeting a number of years ago time at the water crisis, and we had a few employs a couple different place. It stood up and said, take my profit sharing. What can we do can be donated to support the water crisis? Many think they really care must remain, but you ve you ve heard moments real tough moments in envisage the recession. Hit you hard. You are here by Hurricane Sandy, which he has dried. A lot of your inventory and, like one point, five million dollars and stuff like that. How did you
in moments like that. Did you rethink some of your do Gooding now, never never I mean there were moments that we had. I remember there was a moment in that was two thousand eight. We had a back in our wellness benefit. We give a thousand dollars a year to every employee for additional kinds of wellness. Besides the regular medical benefits so for the massages in you know, yoga classes and all those kinds of things come in, so we had to pull back. I think we gave only half and we you know, of course, couldn't get profit sharing if there was no profit anything, but our social consciousness work. I don't think we ever pulled back. We did pull back on some of our charity work and one of the interesting things that happened, because we were. giving. I think we give five percent. I don't exactly what percentage we give, but at least that too, to support women and girls. thousand and the environment different charities. That kind of thing so we have a lot of charity is weak,
a lot about. That was two thousand eight, and so he ended up out of this, creating this recycle programme as a way to get resources. port somebody's organizations that we had to pull back on a little but that we felt Billy uncomfortable about, and so we created this. This is love these problem solving Winwin things that happened. So we created this recycle programme we created originally through the nation with the idea of giving to those women's organisations and and the Recycle prick programme through so much I mean today. It's it's important I don't know at least thirty people may be more just totally. You know furbishing the clothes and reselling them, and we so I don't even know. Why am I bet- and I quote the number but a lot of recycled close and that
they can as to another whole place. Now we have mounds of recycling running, but at what I'm saying is that I think the commitment to the work to the to the good work is. It is an important part of who we are so we don't stop that, but we do have to. We enact the toys, their certain business decisions and sometimes like I was saying around a charity peace. We had to pull back, but it created another whole program. That's been really meaningful, and so I there's just different ways around it. That's great story, because, basically the intention remained reactive to operate, wears an ethical business, and so when the resource picture shifted right, just found another outlet toward your I'd love to get your advice on a few things, so I must now, oddly enough a small businessman ass. I want to be clear: I survive, but they have their this company, this ten percent happier company, I'm not the ceo of theirs
actual business Iverson, a young guy who's. The ceo sir, no? I don't run the thing, but you know I I'd love to hear your advice as we have this lean little started we're trying to survive or trying to make it how much energy should we be pudding toward me you're. The employees are taken care of and making sure we're doing, good in the world that all the things that you are now doing as it as a mature company goodness. I'm trying to remember how it was when I was small and a moment in time? I start giving ten percent of the profits, and that was when there was extra profits, so You know if you're at that place, where there's enough extra profits that you could share ten percent. That would be a nice thing to do here. I can't imagine as having any profit blogger you I will. I will I can relate, because I'm also starting the learning lab and I'm in that
I'm kind of place the learning lab? It's not it's, it's not profitable. Yet so there's not no prophets yet to share. So you know, but still. Well, let's see what do we do? We still ring the bell can you do. I think that You know the way we conduct meetings and the way we care about the people in, and I think it probably when you're really small in your to people. I think it's pretty natural, I'm guessing yeah? I know that the only people in a way that you know that you care it's when you start to get another step, bigger, that things start to get said: Davy Daddy, and how will you write all that year? family in people care about each other in theirs those basics with Base w austin so at fervent buncher reasons that are not going be interesting, but he is a very small group.
and a viable for lack of a better word is extremely positive and others, a unity of purpose and all those things. But I can they meditate every day. He everybody serious metaphor: nine, it's great our modern either, but I have to do anything it's all there. It's there but we need to measure what else but ask I had I don't know I don't know because I don't know run anything before you. I don't know how much attention I should I be paying to making sure that there is some sort of emotional Karen feeding these people rally of the troops. I don't I don't know. This is also a new to me and there is a way in which, when you're new and just trying to survive in a crowded marketplace, that you can really be It is on that stuff and not for I, on the things that you now spent a lot of time, focusing on yeah yeah. well, actually, I dont personally focus on
either. I have people in culture, people who focus on those kinds of things, but you made it a priority for the company. Yes, that's! Yet it is a form of focus. Yeah yeah, that's true Yeah, I'm trying to think well, I'm thinking in the organization, the kind of organization that you have that you probably need things I coaches you're, probably not having problems where people are mischief now unaware of how they are impacting others in the way they speak and treat people. Maybe, but I am not aware of the yeah, I'm probably the problem help her out getting, but maybe maybe those elsewhere, because we don't no no you don't even know you don't know SEC. I was thinking of progress and tell the story, but. My daughter was working for this guy. This is probably terribly unrelated story, but it's just pointing out the unconsciousness. That's is in places where we don't know. I should probably tell him our story myself, but anyway, my daughter, working for this man fairly young man who was in a kind of
putting his arm around her and treating her and ways it felt like he was kind of acting like it was our group, without girlfriends you're, getting really uncomfortable and so on. They should to sit down with him and said in others. Make me really uncomfortable you like shocked, slack I'm sorry, I didn't even know I didn't think about it and and then she said after that he was completely different and they continue to work together with okay, but it was. It was like he really Leslie didn't understand how he was impacting her and that there was anything in appropriate about it. So I so proud of her, but but I'm just saying I think that that there was a kind of an extreme example. Maybe, but I think I do a lot of things I had. Somebody tell me that I'm too critical one time or people give me feedback that you know like Eileen you. I am asking them now. You have. I lost you in that. somewhere. Where did you go? You come spaced out or something's. I'm asking people to give me feedback. Like tell me, that's one thing: you could do ya, get me feedback, so I could save the votes in the company
make sure you tell me what I could do better on a regular asked them regularly. What can I do better? That's good s than one on one thing that makes them feel safer. Me SL in a group to north economy, you wanna ask them and then you and they could think about it and then follow up here, Yeah. Ok, here's my other area to advise you have how many kids too and there in their twenties jobs. Are at different stages of the lifecycle money. That's one something precious place, be there as much as you can I'm trying. I invite absolutely. That was my failure. If I have any regrets boy, it's back to their infancy their little childhood years, and I wasn't this prison because you are running this business I was always pulling. buy it now. Is that those problems and that work was more important, so I are they my advice they mad about nothing?
gotten over it, but I think that wasn't helpful and then I ended up in an acid abortion was really complicated. I think it was. You know really hard that was hardest either. What these issues all time, because we ve been most precious resource, is time and if you're busy, you were very busy night are very busy and I'm very busy. You know how I ve got this kid and you were married and you want all that to be right. You want to be there for it, but you also don't want to screw. all the things that you trying to tell us is a very tough balance here. Don't you think meditation helps absolutely hears why? I think, because it's not so much about quantity of physical Lusaka, Super writhings habitats, that about quantity of time? Yes, it is me you have to be their first enough.
when you're there, your actual baby there not only five year, exactly not, and I used to read reports and watch them plan the floor. You now, rather than be there when I was there, I think that's the important so. I tried to do a little bit about you know. I'm in the room with him really get on the floor and hang around. M until he gets annoyed with me, and then I thought I could my phone or something like that. But there's that trying to toggle back and forth between taking care of business and ensure that I'm a father poor little thrown aside his twenty mollusca hysterically answer at the place where, Teach him a little yoga, our meditation. Beginning with them. That way, I mean good luck now, yet none o we waited for. He noses numbers in letters of stuff I gathered and basically trying to teach him not to kill the cats
or throw his food at his mom basics Netscape. Yet again, I think what you when he stops moving his pants a complete humanity, that's probably where that's the goal in the great time now made it Ray it's phenomenon. Just like. I think your advice yourself to be there when you're there is, is the most important the frustrating. about being apparent from me as somebody who's like built part at least part of his career on you. Don't fighting against cliches is that every cliche about parenting is true. There are also thinking of its the best and the worst. I will never love like this before you know it goes so fast. All of those things are incredibly true. if you're an end, if you're reflexively pushing that stuff
hey you're gonna, miss important advice. I was stuck struck when I I I can't help it. I post pictures of him all the time and social media because I think it really cute and when I've, when he was born, I posted a few pictures Thousands of people were saying the same thing they were saying enjoy every moment right and I thought of envisages Leslie Rang, you say, but actually is I think there there's there's signal and the noise. I am so happy for you that you have that opportunity and make that choice. Now, when I and my kids are young, I didn't have the I didn't have the wherewithal are the tools to actually know that I could make that choice. That moment to moment choice. Will let me make a Devils advocate argument. You did you what you said right there you didn't have to
where withal or the tools you can't go back in time now, but you have the wherewithal tools now in use to rattle Canada here, but I'm really struggling and am but that's a different story. My my son in particular, is the meditation helpful to me. Oh yes, oh my god. I couldn't I couldn't do what I'm doing right now and in the way I am trying to be with him without it, I dont believe I could. How do you think he would If you said before every discussion within a ring, a bell: well, sometimes a lighted candle. I get a cloud out as erected at an annuity. How does he react and are now he's used to its guises? This mombi alarm, maybe for twenty seven year old thing to do- is to open a beard gpa yeah, maybe
trying to channel my twenty seven year old, still, okay, there's another edition of the ten percent happier podcast. If you like it, please make sure to subscribe, and if you want to suggest topics we should cover or guests. To bring in hit me up on Twitter at Dan E Harris. I also want to thank heartily the people who produce with Pakistan really do very much out of work, Nephron Josh Cohansey Ramos, Andrew CAP, Steve Jones and the head of ABC use Digital Dan silver I'll you next Wednesday There's not a person in Amerika who hasn't been impact it in some way by the corona. I was pandemic, but it every community there are pockets of people who were soon
every day, this is my Monday last day of the cylinder stretch, photos from one about these or America's essential workers, the people who are keeping moving. I turn into a homespun mom and now in a new programmes from ABC News you gonna hear from damage. Was she went back to my office on cybercrime because he is not here and making sure that our community hostility smiled faintly Lorraine. This is the essential inside the from the emergency room, the police cruiser to the czech outline. You hear what this pandemic sounds like the people putting themselves norms which is always a risk. Your brain is home to re. Kids are my husband or my appearance listened to the essentials inside the curve on Apple podcast, River podcast, him.