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395: How to Handle Difficult People | Dawn Mauricio

2021-11-08 | 🔗

It’s been a problem ever since the dawn of humankind: how do we deal with jerks? What do you say to them? And how do you not make everything worse? And what if the jerk is you? 

We’re going to get into this and other issues in this episode with a meditation teacher named Dawn Mauricio. This is the fourth episode in our five-part Work Life Series, and it is time to bring in some dharma. It turns out the Buddha had a not-insignificant amount of wisdom to offer that is directly applicable to both our inner and outer work lives.

Dawn Mauricio is an excellent teacher who is making her Ten Percent Happier podcast debut with this episode. Dawn has been meditating since 2005 and is a graduate of Spirit Rock’s four-year teacher training program. She is also the author of the book Mindfulness Meditation for Beginners: 50 Meditations to Practice Awareness, Acceptance, and Peace. In this episode, Dawn talks about how to deal with jerks, imposter syndrome, and what the dharma can teach us about the technology that dominates so much of our lives both in and outside of work.

Dawn is one of two phenomenal mediation teachers in the Work Life Challenge in the Ten Percent Happier app. In this free challenge, you’ll get seven days of video interviews, led by Dan, tackling tough work topics. Then, you’ll get a short meditation from either Dawn or Matthew Hepburn, another TPH teacher, so that you can practice what you’ve learned.

Download the Ten Percent Happier app now to join the free Challenge today.

Full Shownotes: https://www.tenpercent.com/podcast-episode/dawn-mauricio-395

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is the Ten percent happier Podcast Tom Dan Harris pickets. It's been a problem ever since the dawn of Human, kind. How do we deal with jerks without us? What do you say to them? I had it say anything without making everything worse and what? If the jerk is you meaning What, if you're the one pectoral yourself with venomous criticism, more impostors, wrong, we're going to get into this and other issues today, with a meditation teacher named DAWN Maurizio this by the way, is the fourth episode in our five part work life series here on the show and its now time to bring in some dark turns out the Buddha had a not insignificant amount of wisdom to offer that is directly applicable to both.
Inner and our work life's Don ratio is an excellent teacher who is making her ten percent happier debut with today's episode, she's been meditating since two thousand five she's, a graduate of spirit rocks for your teacher training programme, she's. Also, the author of a book called mindfulness meditation for beginners in this episode, Don talks about jerks an impostor syndrome and also about what the Dharuma can teach us about. The technology that dominates so much of our lives both in and outside of work. I should also note that dawn is one of two phenomenal meditation teachers who will be joining me in the new work life challenge. The other teacher is Matthew. Hepburn. The challenge kicks off today in the ten percent happier at it free aid last seven days every day you get video features me talking to Matthew or dawn
And then we die right into a short, guided meditation from either daughter Matthew so that you can practise what you ve learned. The challenge runs, as I mentioned for seven days. It starts to day so there's still time to join download the ten percent happier app right now to join the free challenge. Ok, we'll get started with Don ratio. After this. if you're like me, you're feeling really cooped up right now. All I can think about is when I can go on my next vacation. I don't care if it's big or small, I just want to get away when you're ready to travel. You should check out price line. They can save you up to Sixty sent off your favorite hotels and they even have exclusive deals on flights and rental cars. Price line makes it super easy to find a great price on your trip. They say every trip is a big deal and that so true, especially right now so visit price line to get a big deal on your next trip. If you're like me, you're feeling really Cooper
right now. All I can think about is when I can go on my next vacation. I don't care if its beggar, small, I just want to get away when you're ready to travel. You should check out price line. They can save you up to sixty percent off your favorite hotels and they even have exclusive deals on flights and rental cars price line makes it super easy to find a great price on your trip. They say every trip is a big deal and that so true, especially right now so visit price line to get a big deal on your next trip, Don Maurizio thanks for coming on the show, thanks for having me straight to see you again, we spent some time together, recording videos for thee, work, life challenge, and now I get to have your the podcast said, sir. where we for me, it's really exciting I've just admire
So many of the people that have come through on the pod cast and so unjust honoured to be here were honoured to have you here in good company there's nobody work related issues. I want to talk about with you, but I'm gonna jump what seems to be maybe the juciest, which is how to handle jerks at work. This is something you and I spoke about when we were filming the videos for the challenge, before you, and I talk now actually want to play a clip of mean you talking a few weeks ago that will be using it. the child, so less listen about clip and then we'll talk for real and the backup we ve been talking about. You know how to have better relationships overall, how to stay connected with our coworkers and memory,
of our family. But what do we do when we were dealing with somebody? Who's breathe, deeply unpleasant. That is a great challenge that a lot of us all of us have, and sometimes we come into this. This meditation practice, thinking that the goal is to have an open heart, german, open and love every one, one that is just not possible with some people. There are some people that their just really challenging even triggering for us and soon those moments were really just trying to do is: can we tolerate them? Can we accept them, wish them well, but a from afar, for example. Ok. But I imagine that some people are thinking I can't get to even the lower bar that you ve set there. I can't get to toleration and wishing well because these people- or this person is just so unacceptable, yeah and
that's really normal, and even though sometimes we might get to a moment of tolerance with somebody, it doesn't mean that its day there either they could go and do the next jerky thing and then we're back to really struggling with them, and so I think of this spectrum- and this is how I think of loving kindness practice. How sometimes, who might aspire to be living in kind, but then with people like that, it's really really hard to be living in kind and so, to think of, say the opposite of loving kindness, witches hate, and so between that. That's often where I live, and where I, how I interact with all these people and some, if think of the lowest bar being hate. Will then a little bit inward from that are in from that is non hate. And so can I at least not hate them, even if that's temporarily, while there in my face,
then I might go back to really struggling and then some days, if they ve slept well- and I slept well In- were both in a good mood than I might be able to accept them, wish them well from afar, as we heard that Clifton and other days, it might not be that so, I think expecting ourselves to have this very predictable relationship or view of somebody that challenging can be unrealistic, soldiers acknowledging that it is something that changes from He did a moment to moment and then to set the bar really low, that's kind of my model, because it allows me to be really kind to myself. As I tried have a gate challenging people while trying to live by certain values so set the bar low, which has can I just not hate them today? Can I just not the hate them for now and then the hope for the best and go.
from their supply of your way to temporary neutrality is what you're describing yeah. You know anything helps. I think, because my experience, by climb the way. It certainly does feel like that at times, but my experiences, if I spend time in the realm of hate, then I start diesel Nice is the person and as soon as I dehumanize them regularly and for long periods, then I can cause real harm. And so I find that in this meditation practice there so many tips and tricks of how we could continue humanizing the people we find challenging sometimes with loving kindness practice. It might include something like imagining this person as a young child, themself or me, he even imagining them having their own difficulties in their life, which causes them to be this way or whatever, and so
we asked for me. It's just. How can I in very simplistic terms, how can I, at the very least, not spend time or too much time hating them? You have invoked loving kindness, meditation a couple times. I think most people listen to the show. Certainly, people listen to it for a while. No at loving kindness meditation is, but there may be- and I hope there are people on this is their first time listening or their so knew that they haven't heard that term come up yet in any of the interview, so key describe what veto from a very basic blocking in tackling level. What is loving, kindness meditation and how would we apply it to the jerk, any first loving kindness, meditation is this practice that helps us cultivate goodwill or benevolence for others and ourselves, and a way that it is often taught as to recite phrases like may I be happy and health
may I be free from danger and then we just really repeat those phrases over and over until at some point it sticks. It's like replanting, seeds and then, when we think of where's in our life. We don't go right away to the dark in the office, but would start with someone that it's easy for us to care for our so like a benefactor, a loved one and then will wish them well. May you be happy and healthy me. be safe and then we eventually move on to a neutral person and then once the heart or once the mind as primed for this quality, then we would try and and loving kindness to challenging person like that person in the office. The eye
and though we don't want to start with the most challenging person in our life, because that could be discouraging, so we start with maybe the cork or who didn't return your favorite pen and then after you move up to the German. Just a technical note here on loving kindness practice of does it's easier for me, as somebody who's devout said to me, Sometimes it's easier for me to call just friendliness instead of loving kindness, yeah. I learned this practice from a great teacher by the name of spring wash em and about three years ago I had the incredible good fortune to do a one on one, loving kindness retreat with her, which we filmed and will release to the public. The right time and the way she taught it, especially over nine days of silence, was to start with the easy part,
So now what I do this friendliness, Sir loving kindness practice of my own. I start actually with too easy people. First one of our cats and then my son, and then I put myself in because a more challenging them any difficult person I confined to me, and so I ve got the juices flowing a little bit with the cat and my little man, and then I got myself in, and I find that to me a good way to get the ball rolling. That makes sense you completely and that's the doorway for so many people. I think a lot of us. Google, with self esteem of confidence we might have used for many years or decades self hatred self, judgment as a means for motivation and suddenly City down and hearing this quality. friendliness for loving kindness and thinking like oh ok. Now I just gotta recite these phrases,
to be really challenging just if we have in practice being loving toward ourself, it's almost impossible to suddenly just contra that feeling up, because our meditation teacher or an app is telling us to do so that moment, and so what I love about the practice, The friendliness for loving kindness is that there is right or wrong way to do it it just whatever can start opening that door for you, and so for you it's thinking of your cat in your son and for some people it could be
starting with an animal, a child in their life and then eventually evens before they start reciting phrases for themselves, they'll. Imagine the cat and the child. Turning back to look at them word. Look at you for example, and then say he dad, hey human. Imagine your cat, just as you like that, and then sending you loving kindness before your able to send that to your self and so that just another way to do it and so I say, whatever works, whatever helps people soften and start priming, the heart or the mind for, this friendliness hard for me to reverse the gaze with my cat My son, because my cat looks at me as a pin, cushion and source of food. I literally have a claw share,
scar on my hip from him robbing me the other day and wanting attention and my son A commonly referred to me as dummy or dumb daddy. So those are my primary sources. Working programme for evermore. Ok, on this issue of dealing with difficult people at work, we got a voice mail from one of our listeners who had a question about this. So let's play voicemail. So we can keep going with this very rich vain here, hiding in the ten percent team I'm gave from San Francisco, and my question is: how can we use mindfulness to become better collaborators? You notice, sheep, more can,
docketed. Dialogue on were in progress. Has there been shaped and, conversely, weren't linked for the healthy strategies we can use when our blood starts to boil when things don't go out here, we think some bad decisions are being made with love any input on things take a j J. Every time I hear one of these very smells from or listeners. I'm so glad that there's somebody here for me to talk to actually knows what she's talking about. So I don't have to answer it, so I will shut up and let you take that one thing stand for, throwing the ball to me. One thing, maybe as a disclaimer, is that some folks tend to think that meditation, teachers or people who practice meditation haven't figured out, and I just want to say that this is something that I also struggle with and it could be in the workplace. It could be with my family and social,
really trial and error using or trusting in the practice of meditation and so one thing that I really appreciate about meditation is that I have more chance to step out of reactivity end, or ability to be responsive, and it might look similar on this her face. But it's more rooted in a conscious choice and often when I have that pause to somewhat of a conscious choice. There's a reflection on what would be the least harmful or what would be the most constructive could be another way to think of that question and so just the pausing Then the constructive dialogue, peace, for me, what mindfulness has really helped me with? Is I own up and take respond?
the ability for how I'm feeling, even if it's because of what someone else has said or done, but I take responsibility for them ways that its impacting me and then I communicate from there, I might say, like hey, that, doesn't sit well with me. I'm feeling tense about this etc men, because it might come out a little less of an attack on the person per se. Then there's an ability for them to hear me a little bit more. The one thing that I find it sometimes disappointing, as I could be doing all of this internal work, trying to communicate constructive Lee and in a non harmful way, but just because I'm doing this work it doesn't guarantee that the person who is listening on the receiving end is necessarily going to reciprocate that, and so that's the hard part sometimes or the discouraging part. Yes, but you can't control that all you can control is what are you bringing to the situation
when I heard you talk there much of owning up to what you're feeling and bringing it to the table. That is a tactic that my communications coaches, who have mentioned several times on the show their names, are mood. Data MR and Dan Carmen can google them their amazing in there too, but to come up with a new book They call what you just described: they call it reporting, so you can in the moment just report hey. This is what's going on for me. You don't have to blame the other person. You have to say you did this. I feel this way just to say you know right now I feel a little confused or right now you know some ancient stuff is being triggered. I could feel some anger come up, and so are you. wanna- do not bring added. rooms at your aware of it or maybe we need sick, a pause and revisit, but I really do want to revisit this, but right now I may not have the resources that all land for you yeah and that leads into the second part of the
given that the listener sent in which was what are some healthy or helpful strategies for when your blood feels like it, boy lying or there's some bad decisions being made, and I think diagnosing. That in that moment, were starting to see, read which takes mindfulness and it's really hard because sometimes it can take over and then we might say I need to pass on this because I know I'm not happy with how this is proceeding, but I dont think I could actually communicate in a way that could be clear or constructive to this process. So I'm gonna need to take a step back. I feel like or body communicates TAT S all time, it's telling us one were uneasy about jury, maybe has been
violated or something is really bumping up against our values, let's say and so to listen to when the blood boils when were feeling a lot of tension. However, I think it's when we let that emotion take over then that's where it could be problematic and so, for example, if I'm angry in that moment, my anger just wants to hurt people and it's not very constructive. But if I take that path I'm with my anger, I let it move through through, say adaptation and just listening into it. What does it need? What is it trying to tell me? So I can come out on the other side of anger, having cultivated or retracted some of the lessons that the anger was trying to tell me so, for example, bull lake, I can communicate
really firmly and clearly what feels appropriate in a given moment, because I've taken that pause and not let that anger take over. I found as useful if your reporting and you're gonna call for a pause to say. I'm gonna come back this, I'm not. You know slamming the door walking, I'm not hang up on you. I am committed to dealing with this. I just wanna. Do it from the safest place available to me, and I is not available right now yeah. I love that tactic. It's actually something that, my partner and I use in our relationship as well. If usually it's me who gets a little too fired up and then I wonder often storm out and we ve come up with this. I need to give him a timeframe as to when I return HU it because otherwise, it's too up in the air and it just like. Are we sweeping this, the rug? Will we come back to this? This feels important, etc. So I loved
idea of just reminding the person that no this is important. I am taking this step back for a particular reason and we're going to combat to it this before we move on to a new topic anything else. You want to say, on this issue of Reno dealing with jerks, keep yourself regulated so that you can committed What you wanna communique, without losing its orbit we had doormats Yan? I think what always comes mine for me, is that we are not trying to use these practices to gloss over and two, as we heard in the clip from the challenge to jam, our hearts open So I don't believe that that's the goal, but it's more like how can we honour what were feeling but continue to respond and to ACT in a way that doesn't cause too much harm or doesn't
does more harm than might be necessary in a given moment. So not bypassing not glossing over our feelings because it's all complex. We can feel really angry, but also there's wisdom in that anger and so too not mute. The blood boiling, for example, like what you said about the fact that the bodies sending up all these signals over time- and this is one of the great cliches, but we can turn out because has become a clean, shaven listening to body, but ye actually should do it, because your body is sending you all sorts of signals right now. It is the organism trying to protect itself and turning into that can be a really great way to surf these emotions, which we all have is non negotiable rather than drowning in the emotions and meditation, is massively helpful here terms of being aware at awake and not yanked around,
subconsciously completely. If we ignore the signals of the body long enough, it becomes tension and it could be say, like my grains or other things, and one of my teachers from Yoga Jill Miller say the issues are in our tissues, and so, if we don't addressed them. Simon, mindfulness or meditation helps us take responsibility, learn how to communicate them. We don't do that. Then they cannot. Just add up being some sort of body are and I don't know about you done, but I know that sometimes I've been getting them, sergeant than I start crying on the table, because there's just stuff that I was holding onto that was finally being released. And so we the price one way or another
cry every man of seals now having its is obviously true. It's in there either. You have the choice of whether to look at it and if you don't, then you are likely to be owned by it much more. My conversation with DOM ratio right after this these days, ten percent happier busier than ever and finding the right humans to hire and minimizing stress is a big part of growing. Our business were always in a higher mission driven people and our entire team, it's a lot of thought into our interviewing hiring process. Make sure both candidates and our hiring managers feel supported at every step of the way, with linked in jobs, we can create a free job post in minutes, use, straining questions to make new roles get in front of the most qualified candidates and use simple tools to quickly filter. In order to prioritize who we would like to interview and higher linked in jobs, helps you find a candidates, you
to talk to faster. Did you know every week nearly forty million job seekers visit linked in post, your job for free at linked in dot com, slash happier, that's linked in Dhaka, slash happier to post your job for free terms and conditions apply. Hey, it's Dan Harris from ten percent happier, and you may have noticed that sometimes work can suck. So I would like to invite you to me in the free work life challenge in the ten percent happier at will. Have you navigate works, dress and find a little bit more happiness in your data day every day. In this way challenge will get a short video from me and a meditation teacher followed by a short meditation download. The ten percent happier act from your store and joined the challenge for free.
This brings us back to the subject of emotions, which was another thing we discussed in filming the work life challenging. If something were to talk about a lot during college, which everybody should do so again. I do want to play a clip of mean you talking about emotions in the workplace and then we'll talk about it on the other side. So there is often this image that give in When we talk about emotions and- and in this case let's say these unpleasant say, angry or fiery emotions where its were driving a car, we still want to be drivers these emotions are kind of like the kids there in the back seat. There welcome to be in the back seat. We don't want them to drive the car, but we also don't wanna put them in the trunk despite our feelings about down that analogy. Mix the tar sands, the next logical question is: I've, have a lifetime of practice, putting their vote.
Is in the trunk. How do I not do that yeah? A lot of us do, because we live in this society, that places the lot of value on the intellect or for me daughter of immigrant parents, for whom they were just some, we trying to survive when they came to Canada. There was no room to talk about feelings. It was just like what did you do and dont rock the boat stay under the radar, a kind of thing, and so for different reasons. A lot of us have these decades long experience, putting all the feelings in the trunk, and I kind of think of it as learning a new language were trying to become more slowly fluent, and just me, We realized we wanna be emotionally flew when all of a sudden, we can't put the pressure on ourselves to be complete Lee Bilingual or try lingual by to Morrow or something like that, but to take baby steps like we would
we're just learning any language, one of the ways has helped me really reclaim and get No emotions for myself was using acronym rain that is often use when dealing with overwhelming emotions? so the acronym uses are for recognise a four allow or accept I for interest or investigate and and has been now use more lately, ass, nature of nurture, even in that, an acronym that came from Michel Mcdonald, I believe coined in the nineteen eighty used or so, but really popular rise by terror Brok. However, my problem with that meditation, when I would hear it on retreat, was with the hour for recognise and often the prompt with that is for what is here. What am I feeling and so
I would get angry, although I wouldn't know, I would be angry that moment, because I wasn't emotionally fluent yet, but I just felt as if. Well, I don't know: what's here, I've spent my whole life, not knowing, what's here and now, you're telling me just because I'm in this quite setting I'm supposed to know, and then I felt very isolated, like I must be the only person struggling with this or I'd look awry the room, even though we're supposed to have our eyes closed. Mostly when we meditate and everyone look like they seem to have gotten. It then recognised for myself that I needed to simplify it, because I was so disconnected from the side? and so what I started doing was really simply or what is here, is it contracted or is it expanded? Does it feel tense, or does it specious, and that was it and that's all I did for years. Actually, as I got to know just how
My body was talking to me in regard to my emotions and then eventually over time. It would be obvious that one would be unpleasant the other pleasant and that from there. I would have reactions that I would often want to get rid of the unpleasantness somehow, and so if say, I was feeling angry, but didn't necessarily know it, but I was feeling more say, tents in the hot and there was and well then I wanted that to go away somehow, and so just recognising that the way that I would want that feeling to go away wasn't Is helpful, you know, as I shared earlier, that was when I would just wanna hurt other people my anger roads would lash out in that way and then, eventually, some time later, an emotion would pop up. It would be like. Oh it's anger. It wasn't like. I went to go looking for it's not like I did. This internal interview, like as an anchor now is of frustration.
No, it's just what came up and at the same time, though, because it was new to me, the more obvious expressions of feelings arose like happy angry, sad, grieving. But it wasn't the nuanced versions, and that was fine by me and I started getting into say, looking up the wheel of emotions. Word it lists out, dozens and dozens of emotions and the different ways they show up in obvious and subtle ways and so by car familiarizing myself with this list, then I, to know that in myself, but it took years took a long time overtook you such a long time. How can we? how can a mere mortals who are not treated meditation teachers, you
ray, nor in any way navigate our emotions in the workplace, where emotions by the way are not often encouraged yeah. So I think it should what we ve been alluding to already. It could be just keeping it these simple, knowing that some things off or that were feeling good about something so that a different version of IE contracted or splendid sulphur in this meeting and then something's being decided upon and then were feeling contracted. We might not why yet, we might not know what is being expressed, but we just know something's off and then we could press paws on that if possible and then circle back to it. But you know I just love what
said about in the workplace where emotions are encouraged and I used to work in marketing for a short while just one year, and I was totally one of the people who would cry in her cubicle because one I wish this unhappy at that place, but I didn't feel like could be myself and show my emotions, because I was afraid that it would be used against me somehow and I'm sure there is truth to that. Unfortunately, but I think what could be helpful is how can we express from these places that are emotional, but not from the emotion itself, so kind of what we ve been saying. Not when we're in the middle of the emotion, when were more on the other side of it were we can extract the lessons and express or communicate the lessons from. a motion clearly and firmly, of course, that just sounds really
easy, but it's not it's a process and it takes practice, take practice and that's what meditations all about it also just takes kind of living, because a lot of attention teacher- and I have Does my training? Is you, but I've done, Sir, a non zero. A mountain is not uncommon. For me to get carried away by. One of my emotion is usually anger, self righteous rageous little specialty of mind, and you know you just over time hopefully get better at not veto biting the hook, and you know that's the goal, then you can come back once you ve come down and have a conversation, that's more real yeah. So one of the things as I was just listening to one of the qualities in, but this Meditation that's coming to mind, is investigation but say lay persons terms, I'd like to call it postmortem mindfulness so our emotion might have gotten the best of us in a given moment, but it's not totally lost even
though in that moment we were mind less a little later when we ve cooled down or when we had a little bit of space from that situation, we can think back and realize perhaps with some embarrassment like oh, that was you may not cool of me. That was so unwise. I actually just one so reactive and I hurt people, and so we could maybe and imagine how we would have done it differently. and what I like to think when we do this postmortem mindfulness, it's like. Suddenly the radar or the feelers are out so that the next time were in a similar situation. We can hopefully call to mind this indifferent or alternative way that we would have liked to be and then applied. In that moment, But it's not like a one to one situation. In my experience, it's like often I need to put my foot in my mouth a few times before I get it right that you know, so it's not as simple, but it's definitely worth it. In my opinion, yeah I mean it's better to be putting your foot
Mouth, on a trajectory towards improvement and putting your foot and mouth and never changing. Yes, yes,. So let's talk about another common workplace issue, which is impostor syndrome, and you- and I talked about this during the recording of the challenge- videos, Elena play a little bit of that conversation and then elaborate upon it on the back end. Let me just drill down something. You said there because you are describing at least one aspect of a psychology that is quite common myspace, especially among women, although with its unisex, which is impostor syndrome. Just this sense, this paranoid sense that you don't belong. You are you're not up to the task any thoughts on how we can
meditation to manage that had it is so common and can be really really painful and even debilitating. To some extent the impostors syndrome is often based or living in the head, but one we drop into the body and we stop feeling say the tightness of the chest. The shortness of breath, or whatever else might come along with the impostors syndrome. That again is enough to create a little bit of distance. So, even though we might believe in it, we don't have to buy it. We basically have you struggled at all with impostor syndrome? Oh gosh, yes, completely in almost every avenue of my life, I used to teach yoga for thirteen years and I think it took me seven or eight years to get over my impostors syndrome as a yoga teacher, and then I be
him meditation teacher and then there's the new wave of the impostors syndrome. I think, even just when I feel completely honoured to participate in a project invited on a teaching team. I'm just like. Why me like do they know that I'm tricking them this whole time? They think I'm a certain way, but I'm really not and they're going to find out. So it's something that does pop up clearly: it was almost debilitating in my first save few years, like maybe fifteen years ago, or something like that as a team, sure, and now I can see it more clearly and I dont by into it it can still hurt, but I can tell myself things like while the people that are inviting me to take part in this project or to teach on their teams with them. They don't want to fail. It's not some grand joke on me, and so I
sickly borrow their wisdom, where I borrowed their confidence in that moment. So they see something in me that I am unable to seeing that moment. So I just, borrowed their eyes until I start feeling more ground, did in my body, and I could see what they see any import your syndrome today as well. project that was coming to mind. The latest one was just the filming that we did in the chair knowledge and then being on the podcast cause? As I said earlier so many of my friends and colleagues and teachers that I adore have been on this podcasting, I walk around. with my mind all the time, and so I think, but what could I possibly have to share and what is so special about me or what nod and some that's the long answer to. Yes,
You're will barbarism. My wisdom, that part of your reply is misfiring an attempt to protect you, but it is definitely a misfiring. Having sat with you hours on camera off, you absolutely belong here on the show and as part of the work life challenge. Thank you dad. I'm happy that this is being recorded, said that I could maybe like a creator sound bite out of it whenever feeling down in a failure on blue but I know, you're being semi facetious there, but but let us go and because it is so common impostor syndrome, and so I am curious to know you talk about borrowing the wisdom of Europe collaborators to see in yourself with clearly see a new, but are there any other tactics, maybe even through meditation that can help you be so dominated by this year as mention in that click that we heard its dropping into the body. That's my go to mostly because
the thoughts of impostors syndrome are just thoughts. The really that, however, if I believe it enough, then they can swirl and swirl and then become sudden. the sake tornado that I can't get out of and so, if I can, as soon as possible. I try to remember my body sitting or standing here may be holding papers from about to go in a meeting or presentation or something like that remembering to breathe, and that sounds kind of ironic Cuz, if for standing and we're alive what were breathing but we tend to breathe. Very shallow Lee. That's a word we're stuck in our head and so to really drop in the body. However, just because, what's going on in the house, is unpleasant, doesn't mean. What's gonna be in the body is pleasant. It's gonna be a reflection of what we're thinking so there's be tension there we might feel,
Maybe our hands and cold sweat or whatever our thing is and so what dropping into the body does it brings us into this moment because for me my impostor syndrome is not anchored in this moment. The thoughts will be about comparing it might be. replaying say another podcast episode of someone that I admired and getting lost, in bad or imagine a future outcome of some sort, sorts all not present moment base and so, when I'm in my body it brings me to this moment and in the small I am reminded that yeah I might not be comfortable, but I'm ok, I think, First thing that comes to mind is mindful as for meditation has really help me lean into discomfort, because sometimes when I M practicing or sitting in my meditation practice. I want a scratch that image and I'm not doing it and it might seem month
aim. But in that moment of cultivating this tolerance for discomfort and when I'm in that presentation at work or that meeting, and I don't feel like it's going well or on receiving feedback. That is called uncooked constructive. But it feels like its critical in a moment. I'm leaning into discomfort using what I ve built on in my meditation practice, so that I could look it or switch my perspective to see it more as growth like How can my being present for all of that discomfort during the meeting feed my future act and so that maybe I'll prepared differently next time or integrate the feedback that I'm receiving as opposed to perform. To be a long way more fragile. I used to be very perfection. Oriented and Sofia wasn't perfect than it was a
Please fail and then I would fall into like a shame cycle that we could last days and so now which is really uncomfortable. But I see that the discount It is not bad in any way, but it's just something that I could learn from instead, much more my conversation with done resale right after this something, I think we're all. Missing. Right now is travel just getting out of the house out of the neighborhood and going somewhere new somewhere different, it doesn't have to be somewhere crazy, just somewhere that isn't here when you're ready, travel. You need to check out price line, it's an important time to save and you can get huge savings on travel when you book with price. Fine price line can save you up to sixty percent off your favorite hotels. they have exclusive deals on flights and rental cars too, because when you get a big deal, you feel like a big deal, whether you're planning to meet up with old friends finally made up with that new family member.
Just looking to get away for a long vacation price line has covered visit price line to make your next trip a big deal, something think we're all missing right now is travel just getting out of the house out of the neighborhood and going somewhere new somewhere different, it doesn't have to be somewhere crazy, just somewhere that isn't here when you're ready, travel you need to check out price line, it's an important time to save and you can get huge savings on travel when you book with price. Fine price line can save you up to sixty percent off your favorite hotels They have exclusive deals on flights and rental cars too, because when you get a big deal, you feel like a big deal, whether you're planning to meet up with old friends finally made up with that new family member
it is looking to get away for a long vacation price line. Has you covered visit price line to make your next trip a big deal? Let's do a voice mail. We get a bunch of voice mail from her from our listeners and this one strikes me as particularly timely. It has to do with how to create boundaries in it era of decreasing working from home, so here's that voicemail hi, my name is enemy. Skinner and I am from London and my question is about boundaries and specifically the boundaries between work and life, and I think most of us will have experienced some duration Andrea said in the past eighteen months, and I wondered how you navigating boundaries as some of us return to the office and others of us continue working from.
and see whether meditation practice can help with boundary. Setting. I'm sorry love to hear your thoughts thanks in such results. On my question yeah, it's thing that I am currently re calibre Marie navigating, because I think at one point, especially when the pandemic and lockdown happened, I found a lot of sub soothing and just my devices Netflix social media. You tube stuff, like that Men distinctly feeling in my body that it was no longer pleasant. It's like I had passed self soothing point in wishes, anxiety, provoking or it ambitious tens. I would not breathe as deeply or just would really drop into comparing the lot or just feel overwhelmed all the time with all the emails or what not, and so
I am using. My meditation pact is kind of like what we were talking about earlier about being okay with discomfort, because in less available so setting up maybe Otto Reply on my email, saying that I'm checking only quote unquote between Monday in Friday, which is wild, that that not being available all of the time is an excuse. Well, almost and so setting up Otto replies and deleting all sorts of apps from my phone and things That has been really helpful, so I just feel the unpleasantness of like a missing out on something or I'm gonna get in trouble. Or someone is waiting for something on me and that there's this perceived urgency that
certainly got heightened during the pandemic for me, so that everything is urgently needed. Replying in that moment, when it's not necessarily true, so I got to reflect and say like bullet. Is this true and a lot of it wasn't and their wishes this urgency I created for myself and so creating these boundaries, but it wasn't so pleasant so being with the discomfort, but then also using mindfulness to tune into the pleasantness when it did arise. So, just being able to have space from my device and just feeling that spaciousness in my body, the depth, suddenly in my breath or being able to just look at my window and not need to fidget for my device and feel that time with scrolling or something like that, and so when I was able to tune into those moments of peacefulness, even though they were
very short. To begin with, it was enough to reinforce this choice of hadn't creed, the boundaries, and so I keep doing that. I keep trying to be mindful of those pleasant moments, because have noticed- and this has happened already a few times throughout the pandemic, as I've tried to create these boundaries- is that I take it for granted Almost like I treat the boundaries like a check mark like oh, I got it all figured out, but it's a slippery slope. We answer one email on a Saturday afternoon, then we were suddenly looking for the reply. A few.
where's later and then were back on, and so the mindfulness can really help kind and keep us on track in that sense, on the subject of boundaries, if you haven't buy you a popular the listener to dawn other include down here too, but if you haven't listen to the episode we just posted with doktor lorry Santos, the gale professor and host of the happiness lab podcast. On that episode, we talk about rituals. You can put in your life even like silly, simple little ones that can help you draw a boundary. Between work and the rest of your life. But I wanna go back down with you to technology and mindfulness, because I know this is an area of special interest for you, do you think it is possible for us to mindfully doom scroll to me Thankfully, interact with technology, be it Netflix
sore social media or email in? And if so, how do we do that here? I might be one of the few people who does believe that are the few teachers who does really believe in that and the way that we can is by turning into the body. So just when were doomed scrolling or let's say it its office scrolling cause. Often that's what it's like for me. It's like the first few headlines. I read on the news I can take in, but at some point, especially if I get caught in clicking through all of the links that are offered in an article or something like that, then I lost in it, then if I can remember to tune into just my body to be like a my breathing, what is my internal landscape?
like is a tense. Am I anxious what feelings and my feeling, if I'm able to do that, then unable to kind of snap out of the spell of the doom scrolling and then I get to choose in that moment? I want more of this, or do I want less of this an ironical. You would think that a person who had the opportunity to ask themselves that question do I want more or less of this that they would choose less, but I dont always do. I still sometimes get totally caught, but then maybe, if
minutes later I'll have that checking again and then it's like the tension in my body gets louder, and then it's telling me like okay, you've really got to stop doing this and then, with things like say, Netflix or Youtube. What I do is I remove all of the preset settings or the default settings that play a next episode right away or that offer all of these suggestions for new videos like basically the algorithm on Youtube, so that every
is more of a choice for me when sometimes, if I'm feeling just really down- and I want to self soothe myself I'll- put on an episode of something on Netflix and then without that next episode, Otto play after the episode is done like say after twenty minutes or so I'll chicken, and so do I want more of this. No, I think I'm ok like I think I can go and continue my day, but sometimes it say yeah, maybe just one more twenty minute of self soothing will actually help me as for the rest of the day or help me be more present from my family for the rest of the day, and then what I love is just as much as theirs tech that traps us into. Staying on sites and apps there's tech that helps us get off of them, or at least have more helpful or wholesome relationship with them. So I think
It's called distract free, you tube or something that removes all of the extra video suggestions that anything I watch on Youtube. It's a choice: it's not something that was fed to me. So I think it's, this combination of finding these acts that are out there and I think the website that I have used as a resources. censure for humane technology that has been really helpful in addition to using my mindfulness of the body practices to tune in, to tell me like, as this wise to continue. Is it wise to stop by like all of the lot, I want to turn to a subject that actually not quite as juices jerks at work. But he says it's in the same sown it's about competing with our colleagues and how can we be o k when, or maybe our colleague
as a win, and this is only we talked about while filming the meditation challenge. So let's play this cliff and work life challenge, and then one packet of NEO said. I remember this t shirt that I saw wants. That said, every time friend of mine succeeds. I die a little bit How do we joy and the joy of others, especially for competing with yeah the eye, you around it is that when we are joyful for someone else's good fortune, then the happiness can compound from their exponentially, as a pole two if we were a jealous or envious of somebody else, then work If somehow limiting the amount of joy that that is out in the world that we can also experience. But, as you know It can be hard because one were totally tell with worker, first specific
task or role or something like that, it's normal that will feel upset or angry, but also that doesn't need to take away from any of the joy that someone might be feeling so you're, not asking us to arrayed every time, we're in a zero sum. Competition with somebody in the other person wins, but there is a way to actually expand our emotional repertoire and those mom exactly- and we start embracing the complexity or the new ones in this emotional field, because yeah we don't want to deny their human rights. Millions of sadness or the grief of not getting a promotion because that's there and if we do actually what we're doing us we're suppressing we're? Not the honouring their our emotions and then they'll come out in passiveaggressive or aggressive ways. On the episode with the aforementioned doctor or Santos, I sort of Maladroit, we taught mood deter meditation, were you learn how to take delight in the good fortune of others? So they-
you can repair any damage. I did thereby poorly teaching it in and talk a little bit about. How do you know this ancient Buddhists practice designed to help us? You know with being happy for other people when we feel competitive saw mood. Data is the word that we use did that clear, then that is often translate did as sympathetic, joy, altruistic joy or I sometimes simplify it as joy for others, and it's one of the heart qualities. It's like part of the same list of teachings as friendliness or loving kindness that we talked about, and so much. In the same way, we could recite phrases like bringing someone's good come to mind and then wishing them more good fortune or made their happiness or good fortune continue, and so we can, bring to mind somebody for whom it's easy to rejoice for a loved one, for example, and then from there we can spread it to others. We could
maybe even bring to mind some of our own joys and celebrate that or to a neutral person, a challenging person eventually as well, and sometimes the way that I also like to practice. It is because, if I'm trying to share more detail, or this joy for someone that I don't really like it's not so easy, so I love to drop into the body. So I bring to mind like a time when I felt we fall and can I may be imagined that person feeling that in that moment, given their good fortune, and then from there can, I may be just say, like yeah me: you continue feeling that or something along those lines to simplify
a little bit more because mood data or sympathetic. Joy is considered to be the hardest of the heart quality. You said the other heart qualities include equanimity and compassion with friendliness and so sympathetic, Joyce concerned to be one of the hardest ones of the four. So we set the bar low wish him well from afar as best you can, while also recognising that you might be feeling say, envy or sadness or grief, because you aren't experiencing some good fortune rising ass, a key think you'll want to paper over. What's there he's some anger or sadness, sir envy, you oughta be mindful of that, while also developing the quality of fino, sympathetic, joy, exact, I think Joanna may see, has said in terms of the fourth high quality equanimity that she calls. It sometimes premature equity
many when we're papering over when we learned this quality- and we think of this- is how I should be, and then denied the complex feelings that we are feeling, and so I would say the same thing. First sympathetic, joy, we don't want a premature sympathetic joy and how do we avoid that prematurely? It's just by honouring the whole spectrum of complicated feelings were feeling in a given moment. before we go talk about a subject I know is of interest to you, which is can related to were seeing right now in the workplace. Is the great resignation everybody's hashtag, follow you listen, I'm quitting their job. You know, generally speaking on positive about that, but I know you, and I share of you that bringing meditation in the workforce doesn't mean you have to quit exactly, although we may not be great example
Of that I used to be in market a new, just laughed, and, and so basically, I just think that a lot of the power of this practice comes from bringing whatever world learning to wherever we are it does it mean that we need to uproot our life or change it drastically in order to keep deepening that can help or be supportive. But I think there's just So much more promise given the world or what the world really needs is us. Bringing these things were learning out, too. We're families or to our workplace or even if we decide to change jobs, will the new job, for example, but I dont think we necessarily need to quit everything and find a cave for a few years to really get the richness of this practice. I actually feel
from my experience when I first started meditating I kept going on retreats and this is when I was working in marketing. What I didn't realize, though, was that I was treating my practice as away or police to escape to. I wasn't actually applying any of the things that I was learning in my did it a life and my partner at that time. I remember if we didn't Fight I'd, say, hold on, and then I go off on a ten nor for a twenty day retreat. come back and we would never pick up that conversation cause. I was suddenly feeling we more peaceful and said that wasn't actually addressing and thing in my life either, and so when I read lies that I told myself I wouldn't go on a retreat until it felt like I wanted to connect as opposed to wanting to escape, and that took, I think,
two years. I would constantly to name that I would be in touch with my mentor. My meditation teacher to also help keep me straight and what not, but I remembered those two years were the heart, because I couldn't just run away from all of the uncomfortable situations and conversations that I really just one to avoid, and so I think that is what has made me so passionate about being mindful in our data life with the things that are in our lives like technology or these jerky people at work or what not Listen! You talk. I realise that next time I do matter Mudita for a a difficult person. I'm gonna wish that they find their blessing go to it. If that's not exactly what I wanted you to take that baby steps, not the best at dawn, you done a great job with this for people
Organ of aspect want to learn more about you. You have a website social media working people again you have. My website is the best path, is basically a so it's just Don Marie seo dot com and then I try to just be in touch with people in deeper way that are not algorithm based. So I have a peach. Yawn! community, as well as my monthly newsletter, and I'm firstly, on a social media sabbatical right now, just because I didn't like how it made me feel when I would engage with it it just fine, like when a world event would happen. I would jump into social media as if I needed others to validate my feelings or opinions, and so I just one Can I get to know myself more, and so I been on this social media sabbatical for seven months though- and I dont know if I'll come back for you thanks.
dawn was great to chat with her before we had out. Let me mention again the free work life challenge, which will teach you how to navigate your life at work without losing your mind. Done, of course, is one of the main teachers in that challenge. It starts to day November, eighth over on the ten percent happier app Download. Which will teach you how to navigate your life at work without losing your mind. Done, of course, is one of the main teacher. as mayor challenge. It starts by to Morrow Maria were tell and Jan Plant with app download the ten percent friend over wherever you get your apps to join, now. The show is made by Samuel Johnson Gabriel's Ackerman, Dj Cashmere Justine, Davy Kim bike. Emma Maria were tell and Jan Point with audio engineering from our good friend over it ultra violet. We'll see you on Wednesday. Four afresh episode with Matthew Hepburn who has mentioned is the code teacher in the work life balance.
If you're like me, you're feeling really cooped up right now, I can think about is when I can go on my next vacation. I don't care if it's big or small. I just want to get away when you're ready to travel. You should check out price line. They can save you up to sixty sent off your favorite hotels and they even have exclusive deals on flights and rental cars. Price line makes it super easy to find a great price on your trip. They say every trip is a big deal and that so true, especially right now so visit price line to get a big deal on your next trip
Transcript generated on 2021-11-08.