This. Is the ten percent happier Broadcast Andean Harris again be honest when I first started to engage with the subject of today's episode, I found it a horrifying. I did not want to look at this, but ultimately have come to see this topic as both fascinating unhopeful. Largely thanks to the skill and wisdom of his guest today, we're talking about your inevitable professional decline, the unavoidable truth that our skills change as we get older, If your young right now, you might be thinking well, I don't need to worry about this, but the data show that your mental processing consent

The shift way earlier than you might think like way earlier by guest today describes this as these drivers curse. We invest. Many of us do so much in our professional success and then put at some point things change. There is as much a magic good news here, however, while certain abilities and mental capacities change erode with age others get stronger and with some foresight and plan and good habits. You can make the second half of your life way better than the first. These themes resonate quite strongly with as somebody who recently bailed out nearly three decade career as a tv news reporter and is now whatever you call it. What it is that I do there isn't quite deeply as well. With my guest today, who spent years wrestling

These issues, his name is Arthur, Brooks, is the author of the new book from strength to strength, finding success, happiness and deep purpose in the second half of life. It's out this week. I blurred it. It's really Good Arthur's had a fascinating career. He started as a classical French harnessed. Then he got his Phd in public policy now this and went on to run a think tank called the american enterprise is toot after a decade of doing that he left to be a professor at the Harvard Kennedy School and Harvard Business School. He also does work with the Atlantic where he writes a column and hosts apply cast old, how to build a happy life. In this conversation, we talk about success, addiction and how to avoid it while still being successful what means to live like Bach, fluid intelligence versus crystallized intelligence. investments we can make now to increase the likelihood of happiness later, the former

important habits of the happiest people, a workable definition. of happiness and where Arthur is Visa Vegas own shifting capacities having, as I said earlier, researched this subject for so many years will yet started with Arthur, Brooks read after this travelling can t like a hassle from finding a flight to the flight itself. Unless you fly with Alaska Airlines from take off the landing, they make sure you feel totally cared for, their staff is made up of carrying profession. like former teachers and nurses. They have the most flights from the West Coast and not to mention they reward their mileage when members with one mile for every mile they fly so stops, willing, for anything less than the best airline experience and lie with the last fair, were every customer as a guest in every guest is appropriate.

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we're about our com or download the verbal out to find the perfect vacation home for your people. Verbal a place for together works. Welcome back the shell. Thank you dad. What a delight to be with you now fully in temper and happier world? Are you happy or another year, one hundred percent ten percent as the best Maths joke? I get a lot of math jokes and that's among if that, the very best. Yes, I am happier I do really miss my colleagues and the rubbing elbows with said colleagues, I had so many deep, deep relationships at ABC News for twenty one years, so that is hard

for me, but really focusing on what it is. I want to do with my life or what remains of my life. It's a powerful happiness producer that makes sense is sure, does is better facts. That's exactly what I'm thinking and writing about these days is how people can what you ve done, and I think a wonderful can case study How to design your own life on purpose is to do it exactly as you have done it is me, everybody needs to start a podcast and company and becoming happier exactly like you did in terms of a product. the idea of designing your life's, such at the back of his dedicated toward propagating ideas that lift other people up boil boy. It couldn't be a better example of what I ve been right about these days, but I appreciate that the only words I take objection to are on purpose because money from what I've done feels like jested glorious, I see mistake. Yeah well, presumably leaving ABC News formally to focus entirely and Emerson happier is an entire

We cautious decision, end but we in my business call crystallized intelligence, which is the same ETA, getting yourself too sharing ideas and instructing others on how they can live their own best lies well, let's explore that and says you made mention of your recent writings and he dropped one of your terms of art that show up in the book. Let's talk about your new book, which I loved and I found, bracing and challenging and scary in all the ways I should also add inspiring. So let's start there, and maybe, if you're comfortable, perhaps a good way to begin, would be to hear you talk about your personal story. Why did this subject becomes so urgent for you to bring the audience moralism?

I'm a professor at Harvard bright teach classes unhappiness, but I have been doing that for the past. Several decades is only a few years old. On fifty seven years old, I retired from a ceo job. When I was fifty five, it was a seal of a big nonprofit, a think tank. Washington, D, dot c at that's been around for many years, since one thousand nine hundred and thirty eight. So it's not a mother found her anything but a big organization in the heart of the sea and I ran it for deck. And in the middle of my time as a nonprofit executive in the heart of you see in these battles, there was a very public job is a very exciting job. I realise that what I was doing was kind of running on this treadmill, going from big accomplishment too big accomplish now starting to have, is creeping feeling in a big, I didn't feel unlucky. I was not resentful nothing, I felt super fortunate for having as privileged to be sure, but I started getting this creeping fear, that sooner or later, this was gonna have to stop and then what

What does it mean when I have to stop this or when it stops for me or whatever, and as those through this. I have this experience this and I start. I tell the story in the beginning of the book or I was on a plane from l DOT A to Washington, which is he know, my lifestyle. I was doing a hundred trips a year raising money, giving a hundred seventy five speeches years, a great life, but it was constantly on the road and it was night time on this flight. I couldn't see because it was dark, people are watching movies or sleeping or winner. and as a couple behind me and Plain annex help other voices that it was a woman and there were elderly utopia, the Senator voices I just assumed monopoly about four, my in my imagination that they were married couple and it couldn't quite make- husbands, words, but the wise words were clear as a bell: he would kind of mumble issue say oh dont, say, would be better if you were dead like well, then my full attention You know I was, I didn't mean eavesdropper putting adieu and

a he goes on mobile, Mama bumble, and I hear her say it's not true that nobody cares about you and that you're, just a has been your washed up and she was consoling em like us for twenty minutes unthinking. Who is this a guy who's disappointed. You know, he's a guy who's never been able accomplished for much because of accomplish a lot. The world tells you should be able dying out on that, even when it finishes so just get the buried treasure. retire and enjoy for the rest of your life, but even I was worried about when the party stops so something like what about that anyway, we land in Washington the lights go on. I try round. Just to get a look, we're gonna curious, and it turns out to be one of the most famous men in the world This is somebody was universally admired, is not controversial, because politics, or even in Thus there is somebody who's done, amazing things with his life and his loved by male millions and a mere by millions and millions of people have found myself. If I done with this. Man is done, which I won't show incapable of. I would be incredibly

satisfied with my life, and yet I heard what he was confessing to his wife and as we were, leaving the plane, the pilot stops them and said, recognises them and said sir. You my hero. Since I was a little boy and he was beaming with and I thought which is the real hero this one or the one twenty minutes ago, and I thought this is not right. Increasingly, on finding the people are afraid, as their life changes, they're afraid as their skill and their abilities change that they're not in charge. What's it going to do with letter parts of their life and as a result, the more the people tend to see the more they tend to achieve its too frequently taste of the more disappointed they are when the party stops, and I want to solve, for me, and I want to solve that for others, and I went on an eight year made on the social side from a Phd social scientist. I should be able to take on this task, but unfortunately, the

taking your on appendix if you're, a surgeon so little tricky, but after eight years I think I've actually, cracked. code. Why it is that is so hard. We will change why they're so afraid, wise skills change, and what exactly that we can do that. The second half of our life is happier than the first half that was a brilliant set up, and I have so many questions about what you learned. Let me just ask a foundational question: are these lessons that you ve learned for everyone? What if you haven't yet sheathed great things in the eyes of society? Nobody stopping you wanna plain to say they have admired you since you are for what, if you had an anonymous life, but you still took pride and what you did. It turns out to be the same, because what the evidence shows is that our skills change, we weren't very hard their lives, whether were working. We have anonymity or whether with great unbelievable technicolor. Success like the guy in the plane were working hard

to do something with our lives and the degree to which we can achieve those things for which we worked changes. It looks like getting worse, but the truth of the matter is it's just chain being from one set of skills and abilities to another set of skills and abilities, and if we don't recognize that it matter of we're beavers away and there's only ten people who recognise that we ve been tried it was a lot of our lives or world famous we're going to afraid and we're going to be better and we can be resentful unless we actually understand what's going on and know how to use it. What is the strivers curse. Drivers curses the people who work really hard for their lives. They will achieve those things where there's a ton of research elder. That shows that the old axiom be careful. What you wish for is right because, for example, there is a very interesting study on college graduates who is undertaken about a decade ago.

and here is your rock Esther, where they were asked what their goals were, and they and the researchers followed up some years later, to see whether or not they had their goals and how happy they were, and they found it about half of the students had what they call. extrinsic goals, money, power, fame and half of an intrinsic goals which ethically loving relationships and everybody their goals, the kids who wanted to go on and have more money and power and prestige careers- they got it. They were doing better than their colleagues in those worldly terms and those who to have better relationships and deeper relationships. They had those two so careful what you wish for, because the truth, you're gonna hit something like your goals, the more the east The more that struggle. The more that you try to do amazing things when it has turn around and mid life and working harder is not working for you anymore, you're, going to notice it more of your stryver, If you don't really tried very hard to do very much you're talkin, a notice when you're skills Wayne, quite frankly,

but if you do a lie, whether your anonymous or your public you're gonna know that you ve done a lot that you ve, used your skills to the max that use striven to be kind of extraordinary and when it gets harder to do those things because not because you going into decline, but because your skills are changing, you're gonna see a big difference them. Are you do the more you strive, the bigger the contrasts and that contrasts itself is kind of a curse? Is it inevitable at me? I know the answer this. Can I read the book, but This is a scary thing for a lot of people, certainly scare from me. Is it enough the bull that our skills are going to, I might say decline, but I think you would say change. So the answer is yes, and there are very, very strong common, have aura neuro scientific reasons why certain things get harder and other things get easier as we go through life now. This goes entirely against

all of the learning companies, executive, coaches and self development experts who say ten. thousand hours and you'll become a master in your master. These things for life the truth of the matter is that the structure of the brain and the functioning of the mind are such that were really really good at certain things early in life and were good at different things later in life, and the result of that is that anybody who is especially those who are we working with their brains, which is almost everybody who is listening to us right now, has some basis for using knowledge and using cognitive horse power in their work. You know using their minor brains a lot in the course of their work, their get to see certain things decline they're not paying attention they're, not going to see other things actually getting easier. So I've looked- and I in our document this because after prove this point in the book, I go through a whole bunch of different programme can I go through medicine? I go through law. I go through data science, I go through teaching. I go through academia. I got

all of these different things, and I show that people have a tendency to be really really good at solving problems, and innovating, really sort of raw smarts getting better at what they do. Thinking through things really quick, we solving problems quickly when their younger and that just gets harder. Generally speaking from MID thirty two about fifty and then after that point, they get much much better at telling stories at teaching at putting idea together, but if they want to just use what made him good early on for the rest of their lives, too can be really really frustrating is going to feel like they gone into decline and that's a pity because it wastes what they have later on. But to ask your question yet if ubiquitous this is, the structure of how things work, you're really really good at it, nation and raw smarts and solving problems quickly when you're younger and your much much better at putting ideas together and explaining the people as you age, and is this true across every profession like forget

What's coming to my right, now is rock music very few rock musicians stay good past I mean you could say early thirties, but you know, maybe a few are doing good stuff at forty, fifty whatever but Maybe Paul Mccartney's had a good somber too. In my opinion, in the last twenty years been at ease, arguably the greatest rocks on writer of all time. Sorry, Sir Paul, you may disagree with my math, I mean I listened to a lot rock music and I just see time and again they burn hot and quick It has everything to do with the first first, as the second strength, the curve that we have the first curve in your first strength is called fluid intelligence and that's innovation. Your ability come up with brand new ideas quickly. That's the reason is easier rice songs. When you're younger, that's terrific, Paul Macartney did more inventive work more quickly with greater volume when he was younger when used with the Beatles slightly thereafter and that's why it's harder for people over that later, because that curve goes

careening downward in the late thirties and enter the forties? and by the way, downstairs all of us, and we know what I was my early thirties. I was writing these academic papers at a level of mathematical complexity. That literally, I have a hard time understanding my own math. Now a couple of decades, I read my papers, mainly tourism like like, I was really smart. Who is that guy? Oh wait, that's my paper and I could come up with a stuff like a crank through this research. Now That's too bad news! The good news is that other curve that lies behind it which is not the ability for palm according to write brand new songs. would be his ability to understand how different kinds of music relate to one another to describe what the music has to be a David Attenborough type character to talk of how all things fit together. So David Attenborough, is a kind of guy who is a much more adroit scientist with new ideas early on in his career eddies, much better at actually talking about here.

All the ideas come together for a world has greater harmony, a world that is more sustainable because he has a broader sweep of all these things and he's a much better teacher later on. Those abilities a really low in your twenties and even Thirty'S- they exist are growing in your forty is too slow, the size ideas to talk about the broad sweep and to describe them as a good teacher. Through your fifties, a really strong, they stay strong. your sixtys and Seventys, and even your eighties is the bottom line so being innovator when you're young Benin structure, when you're old suggested Pang a lantern on this, the first her is lightning in a bottle. Innovation. Ideation second curve is synthesizing, seeing the canoe, action among ideas and explaining slash teaching, yeah so if you think about it, the people were listening, Right now, I must say summer in college and you're gonna come out a call. and you're gonna go to interview for a job losses.

go to interview for consulting company and the controls? company in the interview is gonna, give you a weird question. The very question gonna, be why are manhole covers round or how many pennies, which have to stack on top of each other to reach to the top. perceived by what they want. Is your ability to solve the problem? Lightening, quick now and you got, a good education and a lot of brain power you'll be able to answer that. If you answer it well enough they're going to hire you why? Because of this thing called fluid intelligence which they need to have an above? What they're not gonna ask you is what really really interesting and novel question. In other words, you're, really gotta, finding answers when you're young you're really good at figuring out the right questions when you're older and then by the way Go on higher young hot shot was going to answer this particular questions because it requires a different kind of credibility. The first is fluid intelligence. The second is crystallized, intelligent,

The ceo is the one who is a good judge of the people of flu intelligence and tasks them in the right way puts them, either in good teams and explained to them the importance of the tasks that they're trying to execute. That's somebody who's a real really good leader later life, actually matures into that second position, as opposed to trying to of all those goofy problems are their fields were, actually you tend to get better with age, any fields were ages and Absolutely those fields were crystallized, intelligence is actually most prized. for example, if I say he can tell me what passed into your head, when I say poet, what do you think dsl it genocide? Ok now tears, Elliot, live to his induce eighties and Yes, it actually wrote his most famous and arguably his best poetry when he was in his twenties and The matter is that poets use fluid intelligence by inventing stuff with language

do on average half of their work by about aged forty and the better half in the first half of the works over the aged forty half of your it is down to the better half of that now do I say think what who pops nature had. What I say historian think somebody Mccullough Michael, is in eighties, he's doing his best work and his eighties, how the hell that possible as these some sort of freak answers now he's not to invent new concepts. He has to know everything in the world and figure out how it everything relates to everything else, to tell a story that makes sense. History is a perfect field of crystallized intelligence. It's like having a vast library and how to use it? None nobody's thing that even Mccullough solve history problems fast now, who knows how long it takes me to write a book. He has descended

librarian to the back of the stacks, is little librarian might be a stop and have a smoke or a cup of coffee, or something sooner or later, he's going to come back from the vast tax with this material and it's going to all relate to each the particular way. Lightning. Quickness is not at a premium as us. The thing that that requires that, no a lot and know how to use the facts like history, you can and better and better and better? And by the way, the data show that historians. Half of your life's work is done at age. Sixty and in the better half is the second half of your historian. You better take carrier and you better not smoke because you ready right your best books in eighty five. So am I and a Gorman should enjoy her poetry, prowess now and perhaps switch over to history at age. Forty exactly the right death is exactly right, be a pull it in the first half the historian. The second half be a start up innovator in the first half

professor in the second half, come up with the big ideas on how to break stories of ABC News in the first half and run ten percent happier in the second half I mean I was reading the book and I think it I'm in the middle of writing my own book and I dont know if it's any good but I'd like to think it's maybe better than the first, when I wrote a maybe, but that I was reading your butt as well as that of mathematical impossibility, since I just turn fifty etc, etc. But maybe, since what I'm doing in the book is hopefully not only storytelling but also explanation of important ideas, maybe I'm on the second curve with this project. Only goodness You are. I really think you are in part of the reason I know this is because I've been under. Shall we and you ve been on mine and I'm a consumer of your work and your not inventing meditation make one. The Buddha was talking about these,

twenty five hundred years ago, what you're doing and your bringing to audiences, the verities of ancient wisdom in a way that they can understand it. You are a professor, what you're trying to do- and this is something it favours- crystallized intelligence, there's, no reason you can't be doing this even better than twenty years smell you mentioned meditation. Do you think that the aging brain is gonna be better at metal, patient than a younger person, so generally speaking the ads Yes, and a lot of people find they get much better meditations they age and they think it's because they have more practice. But the truth is that Aging brain favours that kind of thinking of that sort. concentration, a little bit better than the young brain. So there's a lot of ways to think about it. The Buddhist I was about the monkey mind where your mind is like a monkey jumping from tree to tree, and it wants to see lots of tasty fruit gives, if potentiality and allow us to be able to get that fruit and can't stay constant. This is the reason that young people, for example, they tend to spend

big percentage of their time, doing what neuroscientist call prospective that's thinking about the future, whereas older people are much better at mindfulness, just better because the monkey mind has largely been tamed, partly if you're a practitioner meditation, which I recommend that everybody consider at least that they get better at it, but part of it is because the monkey has a tendency to be a homer as the mind is, the brain goes from fluid to crystallise intelligence. Coming up, Arthur's gonna talk about the dangers of success addiction and how to avoid it well still being successful. He also explain what it means to live like back and more right after this I just started playing a new mobile puzzle. Game called the best beans, the first summit downloaded it. I spent most of the evening getting into the upper double digit levels, so it's probably safe to say I'm definitely into it. It super

easy for me to just pick up and play a few levels during breaks in my day, and it gets more challenging as you reach new levels, which there are thousands of. So it's also a bit of a brain, boosting pick The game is already been downloaded over one hundred million times, and new content is being added all the time download best beans free today. the APS Door or Google play that's friends without the are best beans despite cast, is sponsored by better help on line therapy. We talk about better help. A lot on this show and this month were discussing of this stigmas around mental health. Regular listeners will know that all of us humans have emotions and we need tools to help us regulate them, not avoid them. Just like we take care of our bodies by eating you Tricia's Lee. We can do the same for our minds by going to therapy. I can personally say that their feet is a tool that is help me many many times in my day to day life. Better help is

the Miser online therapy that offers video phone and even live chat sessions with your therapy. So you don't have to see anybody on camera if you dont want to its much more affordable than in person therapy and you can be matched with a therapist in under forty eight hours, give it a try and see white over two million people have used better help. Online therapy is pie, cast a sponsored by better help and ten percent happier listeners get ten percent off their first month at better help dot com, slash happier, oh, I want to go through a bunch of concepts from your book, saw just throw these out and let you hold forth success addiction as behavioral social scientist, I'm really interested in the phenomenon of addiction and adapt comes in a lot of different forms. Of course, there's a lot of interesting books about this annul MP at Stanford as a great new book about dopamine and open

is the neurotransmitter that everyone is familiar with. It was a real novel concept ten years ago, but everyone is familiar with dopamine. He says that the neurotransmitter of desire It lays down tracks in your brain, so you do something as your reward. Dopamine actually gives you a little spread of joy and enter patient, when you think about doing that thing a second time in a third time in and a millionth time in the case of smoking, cigarettes or or drinking. If you have an alcohol use problem, so Obama lies behind all these different addictions, but it's not just chemicals. It's also behaviors one of the things. find, is that habit. Forming behaviour will implicate the same neural pathways as the best of drugs and alcohol, and one of these things that's going to be just go, and, after all, the time allowed or listening to us right now, because these are people listening to us right now. You all know we are, you want to make them If your life, congratulations, I think that's not just lock Well, I think it's admirable and through the important, the trouble is you gear your sense of personal success to worldly achievements

after the other, your exposing yourself to a dopamine problem where you get a little hit of dopamine every time you make the goal every time that you're successful, and that gives you a success, Were you see yourself as homo Economicus, where you see yourself as somebody who just goes from worldly success to worldly success and you're, not happy unless you're hitting that success or whenever you're hitting the lever? And there were these primate studies from the 50s monkeys were allowed to self administrate. Cocaine with a little lever is, are unethical experiments by his centres, but there is a sitting there cage The dopamine lover and not eat or drink or sleep and die, and I no success attics that are kind. the cocaine monkeys for give me the next. It give me the next. It give me the next Ten- and this is one of the big problems that I see it with my students at Harvard they're, already success addicts they're going to become workaholics, which is driven into that they're, going to subject themselves less than fully human

arms of many for relationships and its diction a tyranny every bit as those aka Hollis. Picking up what you just said, Arthur Thee, podcast, her joscelyn K. Goliath, who has been on the show pose, is a very interesting and challenge in question, which is who are you before the doing, and is there any worth to you any value to you? that's the way. I take her question without all of your activity. In other words, it is the you're looking for proof of your own existence and worth by the things that you're doing is opposed as a person. You are being and being in doing that are really interesting. Dichotomy is missing, philosophical, theological and psychological dichotomy. Right I mean. Can you be worth anything when you're not actually doing something in that sort of the nature of work, a Hollis and by the way, there's a huge literature and work The summit was coined by the psychologist in the sixties. Name Wayne Oats he's a clinical psychologists, not a research guy, but he found that he was so obsessed with his

work and so busy and his identity was so tied up with his work to get to the being doing dichotomy. That is so. Is eight year old son who desperately needed to talk to you about something, some crisis on the playground school or with bullies, or something had to make it and make an appointment with his father secretary to actually get into his office and talk to his father, and he felt so horrible about that that he coined the term for this malady that he saw on him and his colleagues and friends a lot of us today who can't find ourselves apart from the evidence of doing something, so is like look busy to yourself all the time and then you'll have something your self worth. I don't think it's wrong. Maybe I'm saying this little defensively one thing is wrong to want to be successful. How can you go about being successful without getting addicted to the success? The big parties

not focusing on the what, but rather on the why this is a huge distinction that we have, is important as being versus doing is the wives of the what, in our mutual friend Simon Cynic talks about this? The same mistake: has this really famous but call start with why which he observes that people with lead organisations, for example, but, more importantly, people who are trying to be in charge of their own life. They really don't have an answer Why you do what you do, but they have abundant evidence on the what part. So I've lived on Washington, D, DOT C live in Boston now, but in Washington D, dot c you go to a party and nobody asks you anything about the life. It's all. What do you do and the reasons this is a city run on power and New York they run on money and allay the city Hall fame as all what what, what what? What which is the self objectification par excellence? What would happen if somebody said? no, you that they know it. You don't you run this company never sent happier, and you were a new man for really really long time, journalists and then say why

because that's self evident this, why do you do that? And if you had to answer that concisely and compellingly- and you are true believer in the. Why per se then being successful all good if it's for the I ended, but this has been ahead. A huge impact on me in my life- and I read about this. A lot in the book is actually how to find your. Why personally, but had a huge impact on me, because What music a minute ago, I made my living as musician for a long time for the first twelve years of my career and then go to college. Until I was thirty, my parents come my twenties. Might gap decade so in any of our listeners relied my parents also share with my parents, really weren't assure rights, making my living is a musician. I was a classical musician. I was in the Barcelona Symphony a lot of it and my favorite composer was a guy named Yon Sebastian. Bach, most royal assertive heard a back and he was ask near the end of his life. Why you music, not what's your composition,

process or some structural questionably. That's why you write music, he said immediately. Does bond refer, demographers lost a history, but the quotas famous You said the aim and final and of all music is nothing less than the refreshment of the soul and the glorification of God, myself, man. I wish I answer the. Why of my life, like that, I went in search of something it made a more possible. I literally left music. It became a social scientists because I wanted to have a better. Why now really really hard. You know it's like I suffered through a Phd in Sir climbing the ranks of this, and that is sometimes it was forbad reasons, and- and I got myself into a fix that actually stimulated this book- I have a pretty good sense of my why, and that makes me feel a little bit better about the fact that my success is for a why that's supposed to refresh other people and serve other people as opposed to simply being the scorecard, then he says yeah it does. How would you describe your why right now? Out of curiosity,

my why to lift people up and bring together. That's my why to lift people appear there. A lot people who are suffering my entire business. These days I teach happiness, the Harvard Business School, I mean people say you teach them we discovered each marketing finance accounting United happiness. As I do. That is because this is one of the core skills that I find, that our graduates really need the most to be competent in the Bin this and understanding of their own happiness, and as part of that I've looked for word in their careers amid this book that we're talking about right now is supposed to be a crystal ball. What are the investments that you can make? A twenty five and thirty five or by the way, even sixty five? To give you not just a fighting chance, but an overwhelming likelihood of being happier when you're seventy five. This is all part of this endeavour to make people. In charge of their own happiness in the same way that you're doing it, I'm doing it a slightly more from social science. You scientific way, because we need lots and lots of cooks in the kitchen here and

In so doing, I think a member live more like Bach frankly I mean, owes a musician I feel like. I was living like back and now I'm lifting people the rain together. I feel, like I'm refreshing people with a bit more. I feel like I'm glorifying the purpose of my life. So what can people do now at whatever age? They find themselves to make sure that the latter half of their life is more successful again, not in the traditional me. King of success, but in the deeper meaning. So this is one of the of course. The big topics of the current book is predicated on this idea that number, when you're, going to change and give me permission to change, not freaking out about change and not regretting change, is really critical and then the book is restructured into the things that hold you back in the thing You need to do so. The things that you need to do department, our number one you need to be serious. about getting on a metaphysical journey, because the gray

the adventure of life is that in which you're understanding the things that are bigger than you, this They don't teach you in school. They actually discourage you actively from thinking about something is bigger than yourself, but one of the biggest sources of frustration that people have and then Actually. No, why they're so frustrated that they're? Just bored, even if their busy, even if their successful unjust bored and the reason is, because only focused and your own little narrow existence is like washing the same episode of the same show on Netflix every single day. Obsessively my job. My car, my friends, my possessions, my relationships, my schedule Dan is just so boring and getting zoom out view of that which you can do with your meditation practice, which you can do with the study of stored philosophy, which you can do with traditional religions, is critically important that that's one number two getting your relationships on point. I can't tell you the number of people that I've met, who are stuck in the what question

who have neglected the fact that why is all about love and relationships in our lives. The truth is that there, Really, if you boil the ocean of all the studies on the habits of the happiest people, they boil down to four faith: family friends and workers serves others. the big for it? If you don't put an investment in each one of those portfolios, you can be missing out on a good deal of happiness that could come to you now. What are they all have in common and when I say faith I don't mean necessarily traditional. I just meaning in biting interest in love in the transcendental which had talked about a minute ago. But what all these things have common is love theirs. Eighty year longitudinal study that we ve run at Harvard University called the Harbours study of adult development. That's been following people that were graduating

Harvard College. In a late night he surgeries and early fortys and matched up with people who didn't go to college, so demographically representative, more or less the population, and it looks it was the biggest per day. Of people being happy and well when they're in their late seventies, and the answer is love full, stop you're neglecting their relationships. If you have deal for but no real friends, for example, if you're not serious about getting the partnership Your life is at the centre of your emotional life together and making investments in that If you're not dealing with your family in a way where these ties bind and they don't break notwithstanding how terrible people are thanksgiving. You're, just gonna miss out on the happiness and so that it really comes down to these relationships that you need to build and foster and cultivate over the rest of your life. That's too, and there are others, there's a whole bunch and the book, but those are the bees I really to use a loaded term love you the way, you're talking about love as a scale as something you can dedicate

time and energy towards and cultivate in many areas of her life right o? Absolutely amid this is the interesting thing that Saint Thomas Aquinas, nor the thirteenth ensuring thirteen fourteenth century saint. You really brought Aristotle to the trust and attention of modern audiences to reason that we all Red Aristotle today, at least no Aristotle today is because a Saint Thomas Aquinas and he wrote about love and he called two wheel, the good of the other feelings at all in a worse, very, very stock and modern life about thinking about love as if it were feeling is like. So why did you to break up that? We feel it? Oh that's the worst reason ever Because the love is to will the good of another person Marlow the king, one time he was giving a great sermon November, 17th, one thousand nine hundred and fifty seven. Cumbria. Alabama matter. Facts have read it several times. Is the love is not an act of feeling

the like as a sentimental, something he was. A great orator is a sentimental something but love that requires strength. That requires commitment. That requires a decision. That's why Jesus said to love your enemies what you don't feel love toward your enemies, love them anyway, past the bottom line, and when you, when you're, not having a good day with your spouse or your partner love. Her anyway, can. You said something we want, I'm down that really had a pretty interesting impact on the euro. My show last summer, recording his interview, and you said that mindfulness as practised through meditation, I view the ability cut it to look into? future and say, is what I'm about to do. Possibly and re actively going to wreck the next. Forty eight hours of my marriage, I thought there was a really interesting thing, because in so doing it becoming mindful of your relations

you're taking love and making it into an active commitment, and will there was such a strong thing to say by the way. I can't tell you how many face you saved in my own nourished by that. I want to amplify something there that, because the word love, which I think we should stick with, but we should do so with full knowledge that it's a tricky were four people because we're in a culture where people use the same word to describe their feelings about their children, their spouse and chocolate. So aids a tricky word, but I think actually we should take advantage of that and just start to think about love in a more capacious way as everything north of neutral, and so when you say, love your enemy. That doesn't mean you need to hug some politician from the opposing party or invite that person over dinner, etc, etc. Just means that you can have this mammalian capacity that we all have to give a crap is any of the foregoing makes sense, remember to love

Will the good you don't have to Guess somebody on the lips to other good recommend in many cases that you stay within the bounds of appropriateness and not do that for people that you are active, choosing to love and, furthermore, to more two good once again is the decision that we actually makes lots and lots of ways to express that in a way, that's productive expressed that in a way that helpful and its appropriate to the particular person in hand, but also to remember that to love requires that you will the good of another being and thats really really critical on that gets to the point, that you made where we will use the term very loosely for kids or wife or spouse or partner or chocolate or car. Here's the basic way to think about it, the world and the reason is confusing the world sends us very confusing signals about how we're supposed to treat different entities in our lives. If you want the formula that

as an avenue in the entertainment industry and a lot of our cultures? lay a social media. Culture sends us for a happy life. It says you gotta do three things. You have to love things like money, power, pleasure, fame, stuff possessions, etc. You need to use people because people are therefore a kind of your disposal annually, Worship yourself! We that certainly Instagram scenic, went on of excellence- is do use. People love things worse yourself. The truth of the matter is: according to every philosophical tradition, every religious tradition and common sense. Just ask your grandma: you don't need to actually change the now. You just need to switch off the verbs. The right formula is to use thing nothing wrong with using things great get a car The car use. The car enjoyment is a form of use, it's a form of pleasure from use, but don't let her car

love is relegated to people so use things, love people and only worship, the divine. That's it now among until you. What that means is that last category, because that's a personal exploration, that requires, for many people, a lifelong journey to be sure, but the sue categories couldn't be clearer. Only use things only love people, and love them. Mr Miller good- and I would add, you should include in the category of people yourself, no, I don't mean worship yourself, I dont think loving yourself means posting. Seventy five selfies a day. What I think is loving yourself just means, including yourself in the give a crap category, and you love your child, that doesn't me or if you have a child, you probably glove that child. That doesn't mean endless indulgence. It just means you the best for them, and sometimes that is a little tough love you for sure and again when there's any person weathers

sell for somebody else. If you're using them are worshipping them, that's disordered is addressed. Relationship with yourself or anybody else. Your exactly right that the best but is that your worshipping yourself, as if you are constantly thinking about yourself imposing your pictures of yourselves social media? That's a disordered form, but using you self only as a vehicle for immediate pleasure by by misusing drugs and alcohol. That's not worship, that's use, and once again, that's really disorder So too will your own good requires a certain kind of and not self care, and also requires that you care for others indeed, but it requires that you treat yourselves in a particular way, particularly sanctified way, because you are just you aren't basically another person and that requires a certain standard of care and treatment. I wanna go back some of the specifics of the book in a sect but there are a few things you said earlier that I want to look back to you, talk about teaching happiness and adjust. The question came up my mind. Well, how do you define happiness,

so yeah the problem and happiness is its highly diffuse term? It's kind of like food: what's food, while everything I eat well now, the thoroughly some people eat. Things are non. Food items is actually some categories of mental there were one of that symptoms is actually consuming non food items. It's sort of means something you think about it- you don't quite know what it means. So how would you to find food, one way is to look at his macro nutrients. Food is something, made up of one or more macro nutrients, which our protein, carbohydrates and fat all of food can be category the longest categorize at other ways to like dishes and agreements etc? But that's one way to start saying is true for happiness have This is a phenomenon that made up of three core macro nutrients that you need to have in balance and abundance, for you actually have happiness, they are enjoyment. Satisfaction

and purpose now it obviously there's a lot. There is a lot to unpack. Enjoyment is not pleasure. It's different than pleasure satisfaction is a really hard thing to attain and almost- and possible thing to actually maintain and purpose is the most paradoxical of all, because it actually requires pain. And sacrifice and suffering. So in all of those things, like addition, entire class in each one of those categories, but the point is when I Somebody who is not happy who was insufficient have That's the first thing I do is I drill down to see where air macro nutrient poor- and I always find the same thing- I mean Fine people who really really guttered enjoyment, but their life is just directionless or they're good. Actually getting momentary, satisfaction but they're sitting on this treadmill, just simply trying to as success attic they hit the lever over over and over again and they don't enjoy it very much in and then on, every much meaning or their super stoic I've students like this one

unbelievably story, can have a lot of purpose in their lives, but they enjoy. themselves as just what we need to remember. You need to be thinking about and becoming an expert in practicing, as will sharing the ideas behind enjoyment, satisfaction and purpose. If you be happy person love that as useful as it is such a word, a book called ten percent happier and it's hard for me to find the word that was better than I could do, It is tough. It is for sure it's interesting. As you know, somebody who teaches this at NICE University, I'm unhappy a lot of the time I mean I'm not of average unhappiness marijuana reasons I study happiness is because it's you know, it's me search, not research having Tools, however, is incredibly useful, because when I'm having really a tough time of it, I gotta go through. and say. I gotta rebalance my diet, because I insufficient in one or more of these macro nutrients, and it always works speaking.

You one of the other things on my list to go back. You from your earlier utterances. Was this notion of finding your? Why? How Did you find your? Why and how do you recommend other people find there why? So? This is a great question and the Lahti young people ask me this because they think that their wise going. Presented to them- and you and I know the answer to this- because we're both very interested in medicine and practices and the whole idea of discernment. But the world tells But if you work really hard go to a good school that you're going to figure out what you're interested in so a lot of people won't know, go through high school and now they'll play their sports and I'll have a service project. Cuz they want to get into Princeton and then they get into prison and they know that by the time the graduate from Princeton that they'll know what they're interested in, which is what they think they're. Why is going to be, and then they get out of here, then the stolen or where they want to do so together, and his kind of okay but just kind of making a living. And then they say I guess I should go to graduate school gives then I'll find out my. Why often out when I want and they don't innocent.

really frustrating and I sometimes get them in a last semester of the second year of their MBA programming harbour. In this light I dont want. I want to do. I'm gonna have a bunch of opportunities, but really know what I'm gonna do. That's a question of discernment and discernment only comes from doing the work by yourself. That's it now, there's a whole bunch of practices and there's buddhist practices of discernment theirs. Half like practices of discernment, bakers, it all boils down to its annoyingly simple. You actually have to make it your purpose, to listen to yourself and be thinking about that specific question, every day. One of the reasons that I recommend that people have a practice of meditation or prayer. Is They need time to actually be in a process of discernment. It's weird thing young people know everything in the world, except the nature of their desire. The one thing:

they too no often is what they actually want and whether or not what they want is what they should want. As far as their concern and that's a diffrent issued all self, so do the work. When I talk to people Catholic And- and we have a strict of prayer in the catholic church, and I talk to young Catholics I'll say, spend time on your knees. You need fifteen minutes a day for three months, where your praying about asking for the nature of your own desire if you're doing meditation, which I also have practised for many years, you need actually meditate on the nature of desire. So you can actually figure this out. That's how you figure out your wife. Doing the work, not by pretending that the. Why will be presented deal on some sort of golden platter by the outside world which exist to serve you in some way? Which of courses not coming up Arthur, presents

an actionable equation for increasing one of the three key pillars of happiness. Satisfaction. Also, I'm going to tell a story about my own mother, one of the most successful people I've ever met and has she has adapted with Us Tanoshi success to use a loaded term to the stage of life in which you find yourself right now, so that's coming up, this quality. Sleep is more important than ever as we keep our daily lives balance and healthy and twenty twenty two, a good night's sleep is essential. boosting energy recovery and overall well being and sleep number three. Smart beds can help you achieve that this year, I'm aiming to improve sleep efficiency by keeping track of my sleep help the sleep number three sixty smart bed shows you a daily snapshot of that that can dramatically effectively polity like duration efficiency and timing proven quality. Sleep is life, changing sleep which starts with sleep number suggestibility it's time for sleep numbers ultimate sleek number of that state

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bomb, as customers have helped donate over fifty million items of essential clothing that fifty million acts of kindness, all thanks to you, go to bomb to start com, slash ten percent and twenty percent off we purchase, that's, be: oh, am Ba ass dot com, slash ten percent for twenty percent off bothers dot com, slash ten percent a few other, and I looked for the long list of intriguing notions from your book, so in particular order here. There is a phrase you use. Satisfaction is what you have divided by what you want, and it raises the question that I've wrestle with a lot of container wrestle with, which is what is enough, say more place. Then the world's formula for satisfaction, as that is faction, is the joy you get for a time.

nothing a reward who s a satisfaction, works, and I want to get the job. I get that job get joy. I want to make some more money. It makes more money gives me some joy I want to get in and the example I get to end. The examine gives me join that satisfactory. The problem is not as Mick Jagger articulated that I can't get satisfaction. Yes, you can promise, you can't keep no satisfaction and there's a biological basis for that. The biological basis, for that is, a complicated concept with us for meaning by the way. This is how we academics get tenure as by taking a simple idea and putting a complicated work right it s called homeostasis homeostasis is the biological inability to stay out of equilibrium. So your heart, you get off the treadmill morning. Your cardiovascular exercise and within a few minutes, your heart goes back to his baseline if it didn't you'd be dead in a week. The same thing is true: with your emotions, when you feel something some elation or for that matter, you're really bombed out. You dont maintain that, because you need to go back to, because you're ready for the next set of circumstances, your biology is wired for

satisfaction and life is kind of a if you let it can be a process of this fashion punctuated by this particular satisfaction and if some he's listening, a saying, how is it passed? All that the state of nature is something is the Satisfier even unhappy and the answer to that. the mother nature does not care for happy mother. Nature wants you to propagate the species by being a success. As possible by running running running from one thing to another, having more flint arrow heads and animal skins in your caves, you can have more Yes, that's it mother nature. While she doesn't care of her happy, that's your business! Basically, your brain tells you your mind. Tells you that you will satisfied long term you'll, finally be happy and stay happy if you get what you want. So if you have more, this is the idea of it. Hare brained idea come a bucket list where people on their birth, they will write out their list of crew, savings and desires, sticky craving says the word new Duca than Sanskrit, which

suffering, which really means sticky cravings of dissatisfaction. That's what you're doing with your bucket list and the result is that your satisfaction is actually falling when you're looking at those craving So how is defeat that the answer is by remembering the satisfaction is not a function? What you have and what you have divided by what you want. The want is the denominator of satisfaction equation. And what that means is that? Having more will give you a brief, satisfactions true, but Hunting less, will also bring you more satisfaction and anymore in a more enduring way at that. If you dont have a wants management strategy, your wants will sprawl, like the suburbs of Atlanta it'll. Have this friend, who is a private equity in areas super successful any said when he was in his twenties that he was gonna, know used successfully, suing go into a Mercedes dealership and buy a car in cash and, He was able to do that at thirty two, because it is a super. Excessively goes any place. That is cash, and he says I want my Mercedes

They give it to me as is driving an awful lot. He said I should have waited a couple more months and gotten the ferrari. Ok, so that's his wants or sprawling. If the disaster he had a halves What strategy and not? I wants management strategy, so the way to deal with this, everybody. Listen to us is on your birthday right out your bucket list and then throw stuff out of your bucket. That's your reversed it must now there's good stuff in their like your faith in family and friendship and work make the bucket list of the fame and power and the pleasure and the money and that stuff, the worldly satisfactions. Stick your hand in their said, detached myself from this. If I get it fine, but I detached myself from

emotionally, craving this particular thing, and you will guarantee it. You will see your satisfaction rise, I'm just trying to figure out how to the operational eyes that advice in my life. I have seen in my own mind recently in its very limited, better to see it and not to see if it is disturbing to see it that I am incredibly, as the college kids would say, privileged every possible wags effort and not very tall that everything else- and we looked at you- invite your hair. I can be present knows this epoch. So that's a desire. I don't know

to be present in the United States, but I have watched, for example, we went through the process of buying our first house and I ain't that process, which was quite tortuous. I kept telling myself if we could just get this done. I'm done I'm good, that's it! That's all I want, and now it's like do it baby. We may be nice to have a place in the city to get a second car is my life leaves I've got a stranded and it isn't that can metastasize indefinitely, beyond the suburbs of inland, and maybe I need to own the suburbs of enlargement. Yet, if you had the then you'd be sprawling out into the three states around Georgia, it's a real rat race. Again. The reason is because human evolution has actually conspired to put you on that. now we have a word, for it is called a headache. Treadmill hedonic means feeling to get the feeling in this gets back to success, addiction and die

the mean and you gotta run run run run run you never really moving forward you're hitting the lever in you immediately go back of the head it again pretty soon. You realize you're actually run at a fear too, because if you stop on a train, oh you become a hilarious, instagram meme and face plant on the back and the treadmill, which is no good as well so the key thing is not giving in to your biology, is not giving in to the two me of evolution that wants you to be an excellent success. Machine but to say, no, I am human and, as a human, I will not be subject to this evolutionary biology and certain things that I can change being conscious is so incredibly important, and this is one of the things that people who don't understand that by the way they think that meditate. Lol you into this kind of a stupor as opposed to what are really does, which makes you fully alive. It makes you actually conscious, for the very first time, gives you clarity, unusual clarity, that we would never see things, and this is one of them Things that you can do is delicate,

a reverse bucket less to your meditation practice and you'll, find that you can pretty successfully I especially when you expose one particular think they got ever placed the city. Let's expose this to the reverse pocket less than just see, and you can do incredible things thing, I'm incredible things. I want to talk about my mom, a lot of it because she's an extraordinary human being. She was a full professor at your institution at Harvard over at the medical school, which was quite rare among women in her time she was an editor at the New England Journal. Medicine, a truly brilliant human being, and she and my dad recently moved into my brother- and I recently within last eighteen. Twenty four months ushered them into an assisted living facility, which was dicey, and I was talking to them on face time on Sunday and my mom was talking

How happy she is- and I found myself move this morning to send her a text. I want to read a little bit of it to you and then her response, because I think it plays into this. I wrote mom I've just been reflecting a little bit on our conversation from the other day, which you talked about, how much she enjoying your current situation and how deeply engaged. You are with the community at the place where you live, I'm gonna excised, the name. I have some real respect for how well you may this transition is genuinely a triumph. I believe it ranks right up there with your stellar career and a plus parenting as a life achievement to transition to a completely new context, and do it with such aplomb and enthusiasm is an inspiration for me. As your son and she wrote back. Oh gosh, you definitely have too much time in your hands. If you're wasting it tearing me just kidding, of course, showing my embarrassment at such high praise. I have to say that looking back on my life, I just can't believe how lucky I have been a key thinking. I've been everywhere. I wanted to go and done everything I wanted to do so. It's time to relax and be happy done was striving and achieving, and then she just as the others,

Somebody just showed her picture of going on a hot air balloon, and now she wants to do that. by the way I got heedless according to surface as number seven on average literally, long way of saying. I think what you are describing is due by might not think it. If I didn't know my mother, I know it's true, and this is one of the great consolations of age as well. Is that a lot of people, some people can give up like the man behind me on the plane, because he was such a success asked the monkey was on his back and for them they need this particular knowledge, but other people figure it out. Other people, like your mother figure it out on their own. It was a great consolations of age is also that you know yourself to the point where it's funny you know often ask why is it that people they tend to suffer ass emotional upset when people do bad things to them is true, as you can

older, you get less and less upset Mazzoni flips you often traffic or offends you or when a family member in owning neglects to do something for yet your birthday whatever it is, you get less of seventy eight older, not everybody it. It might not. you're that way, because some people are more so than those of the same age, but each of us ass we get older. We can look forward to that. The reason for that generally, we know our selves and we get a head start on the homeless, stasis silver exam. Somebody does something nasty to, or that's so now ages, and it makes you really angry. Well, feels in the moment, like you're gonna, be angry forever, but the truth the next week, you're not gonna, be when you're eighty it like. Actually, I'm gonna head start on not feeling crummy about this do, and this is the kind of wisdom that actually comes to certain people, but its harder for others. The reason I wrote this book is, I want people to get a head start on the peace that should comes installation of age by knowing what your strengths are to avoiding the pitfalls in barriers and actually adopt some of the things that clearly

you're wonderful mother has figured out in her own just that for a lot of people. If you leave it to chance, it's a lot harder. Yes, so speaking of not leaving it up to chance to go back to the, practices. You recommend another is pondering death yummy, people I would guess, where listen to us would claim that are not afraid of dying. Only about twenty percent of people have a really big fear of death and thus call on it to phobia where just you know that can't stop thinking about it, and most people can remember when they first remembered or first realized that were I would urge you don't nine or ten years old. They lay awake enough, Lanai worrying about it, but most of us don't worry about it. That much and assessed by the time you get into your middle age, of a longer than you are a few years old or new are unfairly seven, and at this point you not that afraid of it. You don't necessarily know what to expect, but it's not keeping up at night really at all. But for strong. worse forbidden, we're working hard to be excellent. Their lives, clay,

That you're, not afraid of death is meaningless because, if you're afraid of decline- number one year, disturbed eight of any sort of decline in your abilities and if number two you ve ever said, my work is my life. That's a deaf ear, you're, just afraid of death is the bottom line, and so one of the things that I do in this book is for people who were afraid of declining in any of their abilities and who gauge, alot of their self worth on the basis of what they're doing their hard work dominate. The fear of death is to dominate the fear of the climate is on believe we free- and this is one of the things that really helped me the most in my life, so unfair about a Buddhist. is a thing called them on a meditation. We should really familiar with Navy son you're listeners Army there not, but when you tour, if you go to a book monastery in Thailand ripen or Myanmar anywhere across Southeast Asia, where they practice. There

What about ism? Often in these monasteries, you'll, see photographs of corpses and various states of decay on the walls and you think of this, a soup creepy. But then you find out what it's all about. The monks will look at these photographs and ponder them and method on them saying that is me and they have call them, aren't Saki meditation, which than nine part meditation in which you actually will go through the various stages of death in decline. the and imagine yourself in each one of those states that six or cold and in western psychology exposure therapy or something loses its staying in his creeping us because of his familiarity, and you must be free of the inevitable look. You're gonna die. Why would you spend a single second suffering in life about them? if an animal is the whole idea. What I'm doing in this book is. I take that practice, which is really The thing to do. I would recommend that everybody, Google, Marina Saki Medicine,

in order for that matter, just in the book you'll find them earnest documentation, but did then take it and adapt it to your own life, your own decline is what I have as a version of that meditation and wish you go through sort of the nine stages and not being what you once were and have a verse. What I do for my students at Harvard Business School who are afraid of not living up to their own abilities, either of it just visualizing. What that actually means. You know my parents are a little disappointed in how my career turning out other people are getting the accolades that I thought I was going to get. I find it I'm not really I'm not doing what I could have done. I didn't do as much as I thought I was going to do with my life at any point in life, if you're afraid of something, if you're afraid of being less than you should They not living up to the identity that you wanted to be weathers life itself or whether your career visual,

raising it in extreme detail and doing it in a structured way will truly set you free exposure therapy. I certainly heard and maybe down a little bit of Maranta suttee meditation, but I hadn't thought about. It is exposure therapy which, in my experience with anxiety, has been quite officer I really like your framing one more phrase from your book to mention and then a few other questions after that, cultivating your aspen grove yeah, it's one of the biggest problems that worldly successful people's drivers, not just privileged people. All people from all differ walks of life. Who worked hard to be good at something foolish striven for their. What, for a long long time is that there is a tendency to see ourselves as a kind of alone

I don't use in a bad way mean this some kind of a good way. Look. What I've achieve! Look what I have achieved. I I and I was thinking about that- couple years ago, I usually speaking the aspen ideas festival, which is fun and beautiful on. I was actually working on this can I was sitting under I was have my laptop and who is breezy dangler out of beautiful, and I was looking over this aspen tree and this the aspen is incredibly stable and I thought you. This is a good metaphor for a person who is strong and independent. It doesn't need the strength of others necessarily a tree, and you, the first psalm candy things about you. A tree planted by streams of water is a metaphor. You know the solitary and righteous individual and later that day, I was kind of showing this metaphor to a friend of mine who knows a lot about botany, and he says you got it all wrong, so we're talking about he said. There's nothing solitary at all about that. Aspen tree is a matter of fact. The aspen grove is what,

plant, the aspens and asked in Colorado or one organism, and it too That is the largest live. organism in the history of the world is an spend Grove in Utah called pen dough, which is its millions of tonnes of wood, its thousands of trees Each tree is just a one manifestation of the same root system. In other words, if one ended. This, of course, is a highly buddhist cons the illusion of separate ability of individuals, and so there's all these buddhist meditations. On the puzzle of life like what is the sound of one hand clapping, you know you're here about there's almost a joke and send Buddhism. What is the sound of one hand clubbing, but as an answer to that in the the sound of one hand. Clapping is an illusion. the same illusion is thinking the Dan and Arthur are just separate individuals. The truth is that at an Arthur and all people listening to us are

shoots off the same root system of life, and if you want to understand the nature of your life- and you want to be happier in need to cultivate that root system, so shoot that's coming out somewhat near, you may be called your spouse or culture sign. Her daughter or called your friend is something that, with your behavior you're, making healthier because that's making you healthier thats? What cultivating your aspen growth means in its core competency? It's a critical skill for people, as they age reminds me of that quote from Richard Powers, author of the ineffably brilliant book, the over story in that book. He writes are no individuals in a forest, it's actually true and even trees that are going to species that don't have that characterise to do. I spent a lot of time is a redwood forest, my life on the West Coast Guy and I M the redwoods. They tend to grow and relatively small clubs, and they have

credibly shallow routes. I two hundred foot redwood can have six foot routes which is physically impossible until you realise that their roots grow horizontally out from the base and enter with all the trees around them. it's the same idea lucky intertwined your roots? Are you're gonna fall down here? Are you doing you? This conversation that you overheard on a plane with the unknown? famous guy you ve had years and years of exploring this. Where did you land and good, are you add operational lies in your own advice. It's a work in Progress Dan. I wouldn't have done the research if it were a problem for me if I did not have trouble with success, addiction and again somebody might be listening, say your anything Cancun DC, big while those for my dreams, I found my bucket lists my stupid bucket list when I was fourteen old ere. I found it was forty eight and I hit every single thing on it and I was less happy at forty eight than I was of forty.

then it has everything to do with the fact that I was on the head treadmill. I was running, running, running, running running and homeostasis was making dissatisfaction than all of my life and anything held out more happiness actually delivered, because I had the wrong basic goals and I was terrified of the national state of decline, because I didn't understand that if you begin fluent crystallize intelligent subjects face it to say that I'm the kind of person who needs this much much more so than my wife, for example. The way the self evaluations of happiness work is that usually are given something like a one to seven scale. Its couple Likert scale in which one is the most miserable in the world and seven is unexplainable bless, and waves. Like six point, eight, my wife from Barcelona, my wife is quite mindful the present she hasn't intensely productive, spiritual practice She knows how to find good things, and I'm not happy Alla time, especially with me man, but she's, a happy person.

and I'm usually, I think that probably want. I started this project. I was up three point five and I think I'm about a four point, five now and as big progress. That is substantial address and as all on the basis of understood what's going on practising it in my life and sharing with others who was a three step algorithm in actually becoming happier because I needed to get happier in my practicing these perfectly MA. Am I much better than I was yeah and my confident about the future. I really am- I really am I think that I'm gonna grow old, maybe even a five point. Five, but let me ask you this Dan: what's your number might ever be pretty high. I had to be honest. I certainly struggle with all sorts of issues but even open about that even open about the new barriers, your own happiness, that you with over the years and others

stimulated you to start a practice that ultimately, as one that you have chosen to point blessing blessing millions. Millions of other people, including me, thank you. I have satisfaction, purpose and enjoyment in abundance through the good, that's good, and I have plenty of bad days where smokey. So I'm of big believer in marginal improvement over time that can compound, hence ten percent, so hopefully at breakfast, but I preach. and there's one thing. I want to point out that you do really well to you: don't call your company Europe and every enterprise, your podcast, the book, a hundred percent happy because happiness is in progress as mathematician say, happiness is in the first derivative, which means you gotta have a

slope on your progress curve and what you're offering and what I'm offering here and when I honestly believe in is that it look fifty percent of our happiness by the way. Is genetic Emmi, your mother, really is responsible for a lot of it physically, but all of us with knowledge and with practice, and we sharing. We can get happier or you have the most descriptive Lee accurate formula for what we should all be endeavouring for whether you're starting at three point? Five, like me: restarting it may be a five or six like you. We can all actually get happier with knowledge practice and sharing. I appreciate that endorsement. We don't have much time, but there is a question. I've been meaning to ask we're. Having this conversation is too successful,

wealthy men white men at that which hard to know what you don't know, but I do think there are things as possible. We would have missed in this conversation where we didn't speak enough to certain constituencies that might be listening. Everybody faces different circumstances there, and either enhance or impede their happiness. One of things we haven't talked about. We just mention that fifty percent of your happiness, a genetic about twenty five percent of your happiness, is due to your circumstances. Now those circumstances unless the chronic are not cannot endure because the satisfaction, because of homeostasis all the stuff, talked about in this conversation is well, but when a situation tends to be chronic, those circumstances endure in your happiness, or your unhappiness So if you re in a marriage, where were you have it especially a lot of tension. A tense marriage had to be way way way worse than no marriage and because a tense marriage is kind of like pickin office scab over and over

and over again or one in which you have a spouse, who understands you and make you better than you were well as tends to, and you have a bad day make you feel that better, that's an ongoing circumstance. I can enhance your happiness a great deal. There are things like poverty that are a negative, chronic, ongoing circumstance, and I think that we are responsible We need to recognise that some people have circumstances that are much much harder than other people have among the biggest of these the ways untreated mental ass, one of the great sources of unhappiness that we see in our society that I seen my data day after day is is an unfair did mood disorder, by which I mean clinical depression. Society he bipolar disorder. These mood disorders are just ass misery, provoking inconvenient a blockage to temper and happier one percent happier any percent happier as these are the kind of

issues that we need to focus on on proper mental health treatment so that we're not just talking about how to get happier or technical. The barriers to that happiness in the first case treat yourself if in doubt, check it out, treat other people help other people. We need a better healthcare system. Does that and then there for structural things in our society as well about poverty about whether we treat each other about the way there were bigoted toward each other. There were biased against other particular people and the old was love should militate against that one of the greatest things as if you as you, search for your own bliss and you embrace than this Kurt too that bliss, above all, others, which is love boundless. in your own, love will start to mitigate the circumstances that hold other people back from their happiness as well right and one a constituent parts of happiness, Your definition is meaning in one way to get meaning is to help other people, and so there

is within your system. I think potentially, this of solutions to many of the big problems that we face as a world Arthur. This has been fantastic before we go just remind everybody, the name of the book, the name of your pod cast the name of your news letter any other stuff. We should know about please, yes, so just for all things about the things that I'm talking about people and get am I going to Arthur Bookstore just like. It sounds because that will have the newsletter, the podcast everything else, but the book they were talking about, which you know eight years in the making and has changed my life a lot. I hope it helps other people as well as called from strength to strength, and it comes out from portfolio penguin is finding happiness, success and deep purpose, in the second half of life. Now it doesn't mean you need to read the second half of life is probably better if you read it in the first half of life, so that you are making the investments that make the second have all that much better, but from strength to strength. I also every Thursday morning in the Atlantic, which is asserted that the IT magazine,

ideas in Amerika, TAT S very lucky to be there on the science of happiness. Every Thursday morning I have a column called how to build a life and then the podcast out of it a happy life which you have been on, which the blocked, by the way down as a block, buster episode, people luxury everything. Does it hurt me so much and if you got Arthur bricks, dot com, it's all a kind of one place where you can find it, and I hope it's helpful and in the most in most important thing is you learn anything from this mature from signs of happiness, the widow law in your own life is now becoming the happiness professor yourself and sharing with other people. That's for the real progress comes. Are the Brooks? Thank you so much. Congratulations on an excellent book and a great job in this interview thank thank you down- appreciated Lawton, happiest of days, ten percent happier to the whole audience thanks again to Arthur. Thank you as well to the many People who work incredibly hard to make this show a reality. They include Samuel, Johns, Gabrielle, Sacrament, Dj Cashmere Justine.

We can buy comma Maria we're tell and gent plant. I shall also salute. Are comrades over ultraviolet audio? They do our audio engineering, thanks to those folks will soon on Friday, for a bone a group of Chicago gangsters began as counterfeiters when a desperate beards their crumbling criminal empire. It would become grave robbers. I'm Lindsey Grand the host of wandering show american history tellers. We take you to the events times and people that shaped America and Americans. Our values are struggles and our dreams. In our latest series. We recount one of the most audacious would be heist in american history: a scheme to raid Abraham Lincoln to steal his corpse and hold it for ransom. Listen to the plan

to steal, Lincoln's body by following american history tellers on Apple Pont, casts Amazon, music or wherever you listening now what up a Matthew Hepburn? When I tell people on the mediterranean teacher, I get asked a lot of the same questions. Can I meditated lying down? Yes, what if I have an edge, go ahead scratch it? If I sit for long enough, can I transcend space and time time? Yes, but not space? If your fan a ten percent happier, you could probably answer a lot of these questions yourself, but my hunches that Despite everything you know about meditation, there's still parts your life that feel anything, but mindful it's time to change that together. We're gonna take the insights you get from Dan Harris and double. This is twenty percent

here. The show where I talk to people who, like you, are learning to level up their ability live, mindfully you'll, get to eavesdrop on people getting real about the challenges. All of us face and you'll hear how, through meditate those challenges are transformed. Seeing how someone else goes from stuck to unstuck can be a template for your own breakthrough. So let's get started twenty percent. Beer is available exclusively in the ten percent. Happy Europe.