George Mumford has taught mindfulness and meditation to some of the greatest athletes of all time: Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal, among others. In partnership with the legendary coach Phil Jackson, Mumford taught meditation to the Chicago Bulls and Los Angeles Lakers, and now works with the New York Knicks. He’s also the author of "The Mindful Athlete: The Secret to Pure Performance."
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pay and welcome to ten percent happier. Andean herons. I've never met George Mumford until today, very happy to meet you, but I've been following his work for a long time in he is an impressive dude here, marvelous in meditation to some of the greatest athletes of all time, people with sounds like Jordan, Shack, Toby partnership with a legendary coach feel Jackson. George taught meditations the balls in the Lakers in their prime he's now working with a New York Knicks. Will that of it too? your story. There will get into that. His Ex story about how he came to the practice is quite moving, which we will talk about in full. I should also say, by way of Introduction Georgia's written a book called the mindful athlete. Thank you for coming on. You welcome greatly the pleasure to finally meet you same fine you for a long time. So may ask the question I ask everybody to star with, which is: how did you get into this thing? How'd you get into meditation. I headed
meditation because I was experiencing a lot of chronic pain, get in recovery, conic, pet physical pain, Physical pain, migraine headaches specifically on law back pain. I've had I guess you'll probably have been on a car practices. Nineteen, seventy five, So I had a lot of back pain in migraine, headaches him once stop using drugs and alcohol. It was there. and I had to figure out a way of dealing with it without the use of mercury, sore I would you some medication I had to, but I wanted to learn how to manage the pain. So I got in two ways: eight, your mom, and they had this. New programme was cutting edge, when they had given in the mind body process and Joan, bore single who at the time, was one of three I could immunology s head,
this programme covers dress management and, in the whole basis of the programme, is educating people around them. And process and also introducing a medallion like stress, reduction, meditation mindfulness You know yoga, but mainly does reading and educating ourselves about how to my body process barks? You don't like turn the autonomic nervous system, how that works. And the idea that some of these parts of our experience like hot brighten all those and respiratory rate and stuff. I d: which were considered, invites Monetary could be controlled by judge, things think so, involuntary aspects of our nervous system in brain can be controlled by ain't doin, something as simple as that still in just watching your breath or focusing on one thing at a time.
so the indirect way of controlling the process these, that we thought for a long time were were uncontrollable. His bag of forcing the pain was the result of what was it an athletic injury or Jesse? Why think? Yes, like injury, But migraine stress related right What were you? Were you in a stressful job. no. I think it was, I think, interestingly enough, I've always been into some kind of employers? And I think distress was just life. Your dear life I turned but also, party being in a job. Well, wasn't really me really not knowing not knowing who I was kind of being a pseudo self dawn when I was supposed to be Doin workin in a sense Place and when I got clean I felt like I do. I woke up
and all of a sudden I realize I've been living and fancy most of my life. What will kind of work radon? Our the financial is the financial analyst for defence industry. And I was really good at it, but it wasn't who I was and how bad the self medication become The data down and alcohol for a lotta years you, do the heroin and yet fully functioning yeah. I was what they call functional attic alcoholic not is now a hard but also in heroin out. So that's that's, that's pretty hard core. our in current united, real it's a very serious. pair of addictions, but also to be functioning as a financial. And oh yes, while I could be you not legislate with barely functioning at that point because it breaks down so start losing things, and but I was Very if I was function. I knew tat I wanted to work and I would
how I did it is amazing how I did it, but I did it. I was workin and still given them once I got clean, then I get started. My life around in the do things, but I was fortunate as one of these guys, I guess there's some advantages to being a reflection. and ass one of them, recovering perfect this now, but then it was I don't know how I did it, but I did it did, did work again We will not get green, but I was active in and work in a job. How, and why did you get clean, well, What happens eventually, as you get really really Yet you reach a bottom the elevator strategy. Some people get off on the fourth for Florida, fearful Some people have the girl with down to the sub basement, and I saw that I was going. I had an accident, as I read, don't they haven't talked about are being be clean and I've been clean,
for thirty one and a half years relations at eight. That is no small Julia. Thank you. So I had to reflect back on what it was like, but mostly I have I had a spiritual bomb budget was happy, and you get to the point where You can't get, I can't not get high, the co bottom and so on, Tuesday, nineteen eighty four for a man came by who I used to get I with. He was clean. It up It a meeting in a totally changed everything I realized what, if I don't have to do this, so then net happened, but I was really sick. should hand, was walking around with strap infection for about. How many days but add on entry to greet temperature in winter but only when I took care of the impression I had by it we have started hitting me that I'm gonna die. If I keep doing this. and so
Two point why I thought it was a way out, and then that motivates mean- and I started going to those meetings, even though I was continuing drinkin I'll bet, but at some point. I couldn't do it anyway cycle case or I went into a detox with twenty one days and when I came out at all, Joyce did went in was no longer. the George I was like, had come on a different Joyce. I knew that, if the same, You went in came out. I then things will change but I changed and so saw my treatment first time to wow, so really seeing clearly after you know the treatment, and realising that is possible for me to have a life afforded without the use of drugs and alcohol, which I never did Occurred to me before, and
people may surmise this from your accent, but this was all playing out in the Boston area in the Boston Airy positive. But yes, as is accurate at yes, but you out in defence of Boston. That is my hometown. Yes, you actually live in new messages, which is where I grew up. You live less than a mile away from my parents, US social. back to your your story of after you got clean. You ended up in this programme which, you were introduced to meditation. I was introduced meditation and it was interesting because after the first time we tried it and look around saying I don't understand what happened. I don't get, what people are talking about Let me be a professional, keep at it again but every book she had on several celibacy ass. I started getting and then look at it read a book and and look at the back book, and I would say other books suggested readings, and I read those, and I just read as much as I could about you know the my body process, but also very
is it in non verbal communication? How do I know times. I would say one thing and do something else. I really want to stop understand what more, Bates as in and how we express ourselves. How do I know, and I did There- I became a therapist follow bitten. How do I know when I'm working with somebody Leslie? We when people there really good at telling you what you want to hear but then a behavior is totally different size that got very interested in knowing how do I know what which do I go, do I go with them than the the herbs or the the voice or the words or do I go with the behaviour, and I learned, as is the watch, what they do in that, MRS too much to what they say. But maybe in why was I was able to live a dove. Double life ends things, and but do some do other things. So, even though ended up, teach and other people is more about me, understanding who I was, and why did things and how I,
once a how I got clean. This allocates or how to other people, get motivated. What motivates people to do? something that they ve been trying to do for a long time And unable to do too at some point get to the point where they can do it, and so I became very interested in learning about people, because the more I learned about people and why learned about myself so was your interest in meditation, primarily motivation to help other people get clean, or was it because you saw something in the course of. personally meditating that struck you as intriguing? Yes, Initially, it was for me to deal with the pain, but then it went way beyond that, and I realized it- I feel it's. being connected something grading yourself being or two. but the truth is that true set you free that it was the ultimate strict stress, reduce her is really standing, how how it is my body process works and how the universe works and of their
natural laws, Does it make sense if I live in accord with those natural laws are going to be happy and I'm gonna live life more fully, and so it fell good, basically, Ok, you said several things in there that I wanted diving on I don't wanna forget any of them, so just doing an inventory of my head. But let me start with How did meditation help you with pain? Physical? Yes, yes we're. How did it helped me with pain because one of the things, that would happen As I say, I had a The way it helped me with a migraine was I got to the point where I can serve the migrants coming on and when So certain point what kind of medication they gave me or whatever I was hurt, and for certain but and I started to see how it arose there, I get nip it in a, but I couldn't say: ok usually when I have migraine headaches, I'm trying too hard and I'm doin too many things.
so I would just go, lay down and just breathe in and then I would visualize my my whole body breathing and when happens. When a migraine is you get you get. you know you- I get enough oxygen and muscle spasm in these press against the nurse I started understanding that, and I could if it in a butt, if I could catch it before it got to forward, I could actually manage it so justice awareness in seeing ok, I'm trying too hard back off. Stop no come down. You don't do many things. This creates a space time out but it aside and then go breathe and relax go lay down and just show and by doing tat. I realized that most of the time I could I get out. It was telling me something so I started to realize that body tells me things if I can just be don't you know of bestowing, listen
and really listen to the body in and that's what I got into and Not only did it get me beyond paying, but a start I started noticing that I was clarity about certain things like like I have pain and Denham. With someone asked me how my don't I said, I was in pain all day wealth. I wasn't in pain all day. It was a little bit of paying, but that's all I remembered- and I because on that and that's what I got, if I realize ok at paying, but it actually moves around. It might go up and Let it go down and make love, but I just watch it Chris space and is observed is sensations, arise in passing away. I wasn't identify with it and I was in trying to push it away suddenly or in a fine with it. So I started to see that I could observe it without being identify with, I was gonna drill down a little bit because I think a lot of our listening
may not have ever meditated survive, so fierce sitting admit it you can meditate anywhere try anyway brought his say, you're, sitting informal meditation. Your eyes are closed, your noticing the pain in his pain that you a whole story around, which is I've got this migraine migrate, you're, never gonna go away. What's the matter with me that I've got this migraine, all this terrible south always happens to me right is migraine, is so solid and is right, pain and belongs to me, but dead with meditation you're allowed you kind of step out of the living, and you view it as this is this changing set of sensations at sometimes fade Sunday, let's get worse right on have to. If I don't try to control them, they don't control me. Yes, it's what Viktor Frankl talked about, betraying still retrain stimulus in response. There is a space where we have the power to choose to transform so creating is a stem space.
Priest Emerson response who, instead of diminished response being together by being able to step back and relax, alert, receptivity just observed things so did I create space and the net? basic, can choose how I'm gonna react, which his knee jerk means no no No, no intention other than a reactive, mindlessly mindlessly. I can choose my response and given this was the best way to responded to and then even in that responding. If I don't get it right, I still can learn from that, but does Base where I'm actually pausing Think about what am I gonna do in? Is it go for it and Unskilful said. Was it not helpful as it takes me where I want to go, or is it not? take me where I want to go and has a lot of power in disability. In my book I referred to it, I had a hurricane nine hurricane. Is this blue sky in this? Quite still,
and even though this is turmoil and all of the whirlwinds and other chaos, around that we have that inside of us that small voice. They talk about Joseph Campbell Candle in NAM power. We myth talked about the quiet place that when I asked Excited at quiet, place or dancer that is totally different. Experience Then not acting out of space and being hung up in dealing with stress and anxiety, and all of those other emotions fear mostly because you identify with what's happening instead of realising that what happened to you is not you you know, whatever you observe is not. You is just what you observing, but we identify we get like sticky mine. We just get his bottle. Is me Was it at hand is missing? This pain is even call it pain is a problem, because there is a natural reaction to that. In so doing it is suggest mental, so you can t see the sensation and I
fight, what it feels like as it pulling twisting or that sort of thing. So you that they use language and away where it's it's allowing it to be there, without all of these preconceived associative, thinking and abstract thinking is involved with the word use it like pain. Seeing the pain, and I didn't experiment when I went to the dentist and don't tell me You said, no, no again not islands are known overcame, but when I was getting a feeling. When I heard the sound of drill visit, I could there's, a whole memory that goes with that, and I'm punching up and doing all this, even though that's not what's happening out so mindfulness create space where you would say, okay, that was then this is now. Can you just be present to what is I know it? this low pressure, but The whole time my body would react in, but by me just continuing to breathe and not get it
story about it, I started to see all it's not even though some they had the nerve and you jump What you get a sound is not mean that doesn't mean that you're gonna to hit that have the nerve pain with it. But that's how chronic pain gets. gets established because, where were we, relying on memory modern, were relying on what actually happening now in the brain doesn't know the difference between what we Think about what we experienced. So we re running these old time's running these old tape. So the memory of it is what really present. Not actual activity is happening in the moment. so you mentioned your book. As I said, I called the mindful athlete- and I want to talk about your work with athletes and right, but I've forgotten that you set a bunch of earlier that I wanted who dared to drill down on, and one of the things you said was something about our government this exactly correct, but something about starting to edit. I put you in touch with the laws of the universe
well. What do you mean by that? What I mean by that is this is what I signed said is the most significant question, You have to ask him answer: is whether the universe is friendly, unfriendly, and so for me in my bringing everything universe was unfriendly and when his unfriendly you're gonna use all your resources The either destroy remove or deny experience. When you see the universe is friendly then you will use our resources to align yourself with the way things are done too. It belongs to the universe like this gravity, not personal law. If you live according to gravity, polygon, be okay and is a law about what you what you think you become so a view of powerful,
Seeing than that's gonna be your experience, outflows awful, I awful. I think everything is out get out five than so. If you focus on and we notice think about something that happens, we think about it and then this image with and then there's a story goin on that. What we call in a talk or or south talk does go, and it's a scenario being fought out: What we do but we can do the same thing with southern positive, we can experience ourselves as being open. And and being loving, and we can play that scenario out, yeah that that's it that's something that occurs to me. This pain So unless you have to Sidney Universe, trusting yourself trust in the system, then you always gonna be lookin for why not gonna work? What about Europe bringing tell you that the universe was an unfriendly place while going up Of all the council will follow the alcoholic grown up be in black in Boston, yet
puts, puts a lot of pressure, and usually I've been around or in the bus in crisis, before the busing but yeah it's, but I've been around where, if I saw a police officer- and I got friends and family members of police officers back in that day, when you saw them, they weren't there to really serve you. They were there to control you this was a different relationship with the police ah, but some of them could enable was please, after he was cool, but usually been back. You know it. You know they were the date to shoot at your door locked into stuffed it not allow. Now, sir, because it was just doesn't look away, livening is still happening right. So though it is the household and you know the fighting in August of two goes on living in a city in seeing all the poverty in Andy: Stella T or the the violence. You know you will you be Stan wrong place at the wrong time or units? Imagine combined so
I just had a lot experiences where it wasn't a friendly universe for me- and I other people, all you need is one experience ever had a certain age or for the city, intensity by certain thought? He figured imprints that on your memories. So I got to the point where I was to be seen not hurt, as vice woke up like a be down. Mr Cunha Universe I lived in. You drew the logical conclusions, given the circumstances presented to you right and I think it's incredible after growing up in that atmosphere dealing with the additions that you had. You are sitting here now with me. It should, achieve the level of success you achieved and having achieved The amount of our stability, you must have achieved given given your status in the meditation world? I think I think that is I really do yes, what is interesting because,
I do see. It is just this with other that I depart bodies. I have this this. ask me that we all, let me put it this way, Michelangelo was aspect a day housing create these men. The pieces, are these blocks a model, and he said I do this chip away to get to the masterpiece this already there that's five I have masterpiece an ice. I've been chip away at it through this process and its reflect in itself is expressed it self and we all have that masterpiece in depends on where you go. I grew up Baptist so be still in no is colonel. under that I learn when I was growing up. I didn't stand it but now stand, it is when you can go inside and we can turn. We then, and you start the list that does my voice was like a consciousness, the nose there's a masterpiece day when we act when we access it really powerful? We can see
If I'd hurricane, you know, we noted that there, how do we access it when we act, by being in a moment by Allah, things to speak to us, rather than interpret them all the time. That's how we create space. by similar. What is this and have some curiosity, some interest to see or what This is interesting, a change so, if I turn my pain and or might the sensations of pain and What what is it is it tell me something they someday did you get here? totally changed my relationship to it? In order to do that, you need to learn to develop the lands of mindfulness. You need to train the Mayas, see what my man and the sea was happening in an open So one of my asking what, alas, myself to do the bewilderment to see or hear or feel experience the present moment as it unfolds. Not knowing what is going to be so ask an embrace the unknown without
on each moment is different. Each moment is changing all the time, so I'd be present fortunes and see it, and when I be still, no one can be dyed working. or able to create space it to see was haven't even if his unpleasant. You know, I have them memories about how awful could be. If I just see it and arise the seeing being present to it. This transforms, and then I see always just discos once you understand something is not a mystery, although there are some mystery weaken, say: ok mystery is ok for it to be a most because it's beyond description, we can't write about it. We can point but we really can express it. I can learn how to write a bike is implicit learning. You can't explain it, but you can do it when you first started walking into locker rooms, with guys Michael Jordan and talking about this stuff had I go down, went down
I'll get it back wellbeing in his own, I've been in flow. They all know that didn't understand it, but they know what it's like when your bow. I play that the hoop is large and you just know what's happening before in your step faster and you get flown rather men can do you know it's just a sweep is really It's like things to be flown is almost like you're driving down some of that new and is all these traffic lights in your drive in and you get a green light all we our way through it's like all this is sweet. You know it's just happening, but you happen to be in the moment and flowing with it, because you are accepting things as they are and then simultaneously you just rolling with it is like being in the current. It is going with the current. Do you We want to go on you ease off. This is effort, listen you're, allowing things to happen, but Challenges, if you try to get an flow, you won't get there ass, you can see. How do you get the madmen by try not to get in flow via this being present and
and this this amazed that the laws are that you had to be challenged a little bit beyond your comfort level. So you gotta get comfortable, be an uncomfortable, so you push yourself, he turned his eyes goes. I when you get in a high state of arousal which be perceived by the novice, as I made it Choice- or this is too much, and so you lower yours, you're challenges but you withdraw your energy residents and oh I'm in high state of arousal. Then if I did can have this relax, receptivity and state present to it and I'll be flow should be we spend most of our time between anxiety and boredom anxiety's windows. Challenges I and goes alone. Bottom is when the skills I and challenges alone. So we control that we give Ok, if I'm not out of my comfort zone, not grown.
And how do I do that, and can you do it in a skilful way where you're pushing a little bit where its This is consistent with the brain science. If you think about is a program called brain fitness and they talk about four four tip for optimum brain growth. Nor plasticity first one is yet ever oxygen level- is high enough good, that's how it generates the new cells. Second thing has Be done and increments so easy. Does it third thing is it's gotta be doable behind to do means you up here confidential and afford thing is if Europe, bring interest and if you are prison in it? Didn't you actually still, the motivational circuits new brain, but if, if, if you, if the key it being in flour and zone is not trying. How do you
each elite athletes to get into the zone by not trying worry. What is the? What do you actually do? My from this process of the power of mine from us that talk about my work is a way of making yourself flow ready flow, flow ready. So is not about an you. Don't know what has now happened as exciting as some low you dont know, but if you create the can create conditions and be mindful and is not does mindfulness and sport is the continuity of mindfulness threw out so we expand so it's really more about from. At the moment. Can I be present? and be aware of what's going on in that awareness. There is also this. Knowing or this intelligence it tells us ok what were looking for and when we see it, what are we getting so that is like awareness and knowing together or what we would call mindfulness and wisdom and wisdom a b
information that could be intelligentsia, no wise reflection reflecting okay, so one plus one equals We all know that then then is the other. The third one, which is what you really want to get is with all it is these practices you want to have the experience of what the teaching is or what Dolores, so What we call intuition or direct experience. so that's what we try to do. So, all of these jeez. What I say is not to believe it is to see if it's true parents and then, when you see it's true, then becomes. A direct experience comes you know. That's the highest form of of wisdom is knowing the as you see it, and you know what it means before. We go further on the on the topic of EU teaching athletes,
fill in a little with the chronology here, so you you learn to meditate as away after got clean as a way to handle Michael Paine right and then How far do you go? You became a york eager therapist, rather than you became a meditation teacher. Yes, well, after all, of my my job as a financial analysts, Lebanon, meditation centre, and I made a medical yeah yeah. I live in meditation, which wanna I came to type minute, CS the idea you see. I am delighted that Libya for six years, studying or studying I'll go in a good teaches you know, have an invidious teachers noting out in a quick, oven, perfect. don't do anything halfway through you became a buddhist no it Buddhist, meditations, yeah, but The booted never use. The word. Boot is one advise that come from so is not about. being a buddhist Albina recovery. I mean averting out alone when, as in recovery, was tied
if I would be in and recovery was problematic, so recovery. Now the groundwork I'm disappears and it doesn't ring and doesn't use up. All NASA people think that was scary, but whatever you identify with that becomes your limitation to me it more about? I was there to learn, and teach and demand myself about the teachings, but don't stay in a box. I still ridden alot of psychology philosophy neurosis. and said. I just read about everything it is not about being in a box is like. I was there to learn, and I learned- and I taught retreats sat retreats- allow room three months silent. We treat you know stuff like that I taught people from Yale to jail like a boardrooms? Doesn't matter, I just go. We get we request I go out and wherever one thousand one hundred teach them how to be pressed. Now. I had to get skilful about that. Not using Buddhist language and not Donny,
but being able to meet people where they are and in talking about being present for life, so how did you end up broken up with film Jackson. That's a very interesting story so being in it The Cambridge Centre- and I I quit my job. I work for two years so dismal it stated in red and done a bunch of different things, and in that time, my men Larry, Rosenberg and who's made to join cabbage then, and so I went to John clinic and then I did it and turn ship there, and then I just explained with those guys are very Rosenberg is an eminent buddhist teachers rights and I believe for many many years. He now runs Cambridge Incitement Haitian Centre a junk, but then as a former microbiologist from MIT who really Invented, what's known as my fulness base stress, GOSH you, which is a secularized version of buddhist meditation, which in many ways allowed for this Hugh,
explosion of scientific research around meditation and John worked at the University of Massachusetts in MR the Medical school, and so that's where you must have now am I work for five years gotcha. I work dares prison The directive will we taught meditation over five thousand. A Mason correction include the commission and a else ass go through the programme. The urgent humanitarian meditation in some inhospitable environments, exact I was in our own from about this, in the hell room. Yes, you're allowed to say that, yes, that's got us all a buddhist term. Yes, yes, so whom I met him in a dead internship we have often, then we actually open in a city clinic and washed or disease, junk evident joint right, so we we make. We wanted to have act, have people from the lower socio economic pot of r r culture to have access to somebody's teaching because the main clinic in of you really look at
like if you gotta to most buddhist centers is very high a genius. You know why fluid that a whole food, shoppers and and perilous vs. Exactly so, Thou is behind the data we wanted to make it accessible to people still true, yes, Joe true and so we set up a clinic to get into a, but we actually provided childcare was free and you know Wait. rotation. We did that and then I was working on my own, born in a couple of prisons in teaching yoga meditation and so when I the three month is really interesting when I did three month course of living at the centre, so I laugh and when I came back from three month course, I would add that I am ass, had seen him to get the item s right inside meditation, societal images display. I get you for being so that three insight meditation society is related to the sea. I am seeing Cambridge inside
italian society was founded by might meditation teacher Joseph Goldstein. I also share in Salzburg, Rachel friend of ours and Jack Jack, cornfield, three eminent meditation teachers it up and boondocks and bury Massachusetts and every year. They do this incredible thing, which is where people go there for three months. In the middle of this society in which we live, which is so fast pace, we will go there for three months no talking except effort. Every other data there meditation teacher and their meditating all day long everyday. So you did that. I did that the last sitting in those two years living at the centre and on a lot of truth. Ten days, whatever but anyway so I came back from three months retreat. There was a request for proposal or our F P witted department, corrections, Massachusetts Department. Aggression wanted some way to go in and teeth meditation yoga couple. the present
and so I I bid on it and I won So I started doing a couple programmes, for them and then we pot, with John and then we expanded to make a bigger, and then that's when I thought you know that I was already working in the inner city it and then then we had the prison pro it is well and then that's where I train teachers and we went in to I think we are like seven different sites we had over five thousand in May. Go to it in a five year period. But what happened was out, though, at the time but but govern allowed at the time when they get tough on crime. So you get rid of the programme as well as programmes are running programmes which ah shown we do recidivism, but it was, but it was. Here. Were it was politically politically motivated to act, tough on when it meets. You know, of course, that
ninety percent of get out at some point, so rehabilitation wasn't a priority, so that's how I got involved. I work at the center for mindfulness within those the programmes, mostly the and project for five years and and then how to Jacksonville Jackson into the picture yeah, so at the medical center. Joy Amazon Saki centrally date, they do these programmes off site. Clinicians, so they would do in life and his based dress, reduction, training Omega Institute, which is in New York and during that time feel used to have a program called beyond you're, not beyond basketball, and a fundraiser form, one of his Ex Teammates Eddie Mass, that they would do every summer. So well, with Doin it they were there together and they started talking fills wife doom. I have time june- was attending it and they were shown pitches of of the war Did the sun was doin and they showed me and then they talked about
working workmen inmates. In fact, in I room with Doktor James College, I've been around my doctor, J I'd heard, yes use my remaining college, which Pouch Umass Emerson I thought that I really got into. Are you to play basketball, but I get injured, and that was a horrible thing and that's where some of the pain came from, but I struggled I got into Gaza, get the pain, on occasions I got addict, it was another way did got addicted because I was in practice all the time. I was injury problem. one other thing, but anyway, so Phil had this But he still does he he's really focus on. a person is basketball, player and helping them given on resources or they can live and they did a third NBA championship, does ninety ninety three as the bulls them both, and so he, the media training camp and ninety nine Ray October. Ninety, ninety three and Michael Jordan by that time is Father gotten Murden. He had resigned, basketball. So you wasn't playing so when I got there they were full blown crisis and so
go in and not only to because I was going to teach them about distresses success, because when you went you win mischief to get everybody coming at you a lot of stress. They want you to do these endorsements and and he knew that they meet somebody. How to a deal with that national. Why he had I me, but then it expired, two more than that when. When the crisis arose and might with Michael, though, when he left, because he was in pretty much in other, when common known as Michael join in a joint as they really don't have an identity, so they a better. He came back a year and a half later and then then then, when he came back the next four season, that was one thousand nine hundred and ninety six, which is pregnant? What's going on now, because that team won seventy two games and last ten Of course, you know that the state warriors in pursuit of that, a breaking that racket, which is
facing because one of the players on team. Ninety sixteen is Steve her. Who is the coach it wise look Walton. Who is his purposes who actually play would form one championships in a late. So so That's how I got involved with filling than that was twenty. Two years ago, we still. working together in creating things asked. I understand they go stay warriors are meditating rent yet Yes, yes, actually there they are for core values are joy, mindfulness, compassion and competition. have you washed and play you see those qualities, those values being expressed. So, I just I just need to know more about when you who would you walk into the boat locker room at that moment of crisis in you started suggesting something like meditation. How did that go down like I said I what? First, why all to a runway was talked about being
joy been away like a samurai you're goin, in that way, but also about his own. They know what his own it. They know it. Benin fluid. So when I talk about that to our ears and did you actually have them certain do care about it in and then or go that yeah and what was the practice. You walk me through the group on a granular level. What is the same? Drive three by us: get them sit down and become aware body and breeding and talk about, what we're doin in our could be helpful in terms of being made to get flow ready as already whatever you want to call it, but is really more about you gotta crisis, how you gonna deal with this? You have to be able to create space, so you and choose your response and not be reacting. We're not fella everything's under control. You had their collective of and then sold not with this concept, the one breath one mine so talked about
in this book eleven rings, but that's what it was is getting everybody to conspire to go with it again. It is not in a negative sense, but come one and to work together, so I will so that's it. We did so I'd. We'd said, but I'd have a talk about concepts One of the things he uses the jungle book the Wolf is in a package, has drafted a package in a wolf that ITALY. Stop talking about how to my body interacts, talking about how you can no time now, when you, when you create space for traced, emissaries parts, Cancer is an eternity how. How'd you actually do that when you talk about Slowing down time- and I know you're being metaphorical here- but what we hope slowing down time and creating a buffer twin stimulus in response. How You do it by the press.
This by being able to create an connected there hurricane and see that by observing things, what we call bear when as a bare attention, so you did noticing things and they bear thinkers. What happened in the pacific perceptual process when we perceive things. there is a very short period of time, will reduce perceiving, what's there very short and then right on that deserve. this is idea of this perception of. of what it is you know like. Did the sound, so it could be. Fire into myself. Fire engine goes by What is a weighted? The sound of the firing then comes in and you're trying to meditate your say. Oh, why is that there shouldn't be there and you making noise there's a way that you can t noticed it sound is happening, so you can eight it create more space within appeal process, so you can see more what's there before the influx of us,
Peter thinking Self reference after thinking it me for the future or a moment, as happened in the past and then, the whole idea if his pleasant, unpleasant a neutral and what that involves. If his pleasant, you don't move towards it. If its neutral, I mean if its unpleasant move away a vision, throw you know space out so the idea is to be present, so you can see the whole thing and the analogy I like to use you going up Massachusetts. You understand it so, you got to this one station wide, take the bus there and then will you take the train the fires and then you get him and ass. He had to get a bus and you won upstairs and in those days. there was nothing on the side of the bus this where you were going with on the front of the bus, so you run funded a bus. Any luck and you see the letter B. Are you not be our? Did you get on the bus. then you get away where you're going and all I ended up in Bridgewater. I want to go to so
but what you wanna doing perceptual process is go one. One matter. so you see the Bri, but instead have been heard in. This You gotta, be this oh, I see it's all see you get what I'm saying. So that's what we're doing- and this is what withdrawn from moment to moment it can we see things as they are rather, based on what happened in the past and we see in the eleven to a default future based what we already know so like when you learn something there to be this willingness to. Do is be that thing speak to you without the e capitation. Without that thinking without them associative thinking and self interest with self reference, that's the biggest one this mean for me when I get out of this in did you see it clearly, so you want to create space so that our can be before you start to see,
Ok, when I'm shooting a free through mobile goes out, the ball goes a different thing. If I keep my boy in what it too three things I need to do it ok. Mr Trot. So next time you your legs. So more monitoring aspect without self reference without gotta make this shot other than not to shoot. So you get it in front of people. How they can be I'll, be at a free through my shooter freefall. It fitting. thousand flashes goin off at the instant he's latin above all, walk me through again? How can he do that? I've always wondered because he, In a moment he just in his by he can eat, he doesn't see that let it be there without making any detract that if he was truly in the moment, he would notice all the flash and are now being in a moment and and be a mind for a moment it couldn't be dug. May not be that if, when you in a moment- and you don't know what you're doing your body and you do shoot Dislike- Europe practices, nobody there
train, you're, nervous system? Do it so now you're conscious thinking, needs be quiet and lead body do what it does is mad using the momentum is focused yoga, I don't want a wide open panorama is more on what He's doin doesn't exist, another exists, but this moment what you're doing so The actual practice, your teaching in a locker room, is it just the basic mindfulness practice of notice the feeling, breath coming in and going out and every time you get lost start again. That we hear is that the basic Eu Jihad S present, but here the interesting thing so you become mindful, then what. you be mindful than than that. My voters have to be aware. So you gotta be mindful what your intention. is what you doin weather is working on that Michael, what worked with? Doesn't work, that's what is really by being mindful it developing a bellied be contemplative or to really and decline
painted to look closely at look repeatedly at something. So you're looking at it with fresh eyes? You? Let me speak to you, then with the mindfulness and then they clearly knowing or the the standing develops the analogy I use is doing a jigsaw puzzle you putting pieces together and then some of them aren't working for them back. Can you come to the plate piece me? So I remember that that's here and you put it there. Can you keep doing it with them? for this in the understanding this knowing or getting day data given information and then you get enough of it than you see the full picture. Then you put data. You get somethin else knows all about. Wisdom is all about understanding of things work but a meditation, innovate itself is not going to make you faster or pyre or have a better gulf, swaying right, no
but when you come from that quiet place, you know what you need to do to get it based on. Will you also quickness isn't the issue? Maybe the issue is being where the ball is gonna, be rather than having to react to it? Actually, could you see people when they when they played outfit or whatever? If there fully and thereby and is fully present. Their body knows where to go. It's like in the book in a game attended. She taught myself one itself too, Some one is the cards itself that the words at a song self too melody solve. One is this: dominating everything and you gotta be still unknown. Quieted down sorted your natural intuition, your natural knowing is able to. But how do you know. How do you quieted down, because that I hear this all the time from yet you say to me Dan, I get it you're out their evangelizing for meditation. The science suggested good, but you don't understand, evacuated, yes non recently, Amy Cutty was at social psycho
just at Harvard Business School, who is obviously an incredibly smart woman who doesn't meditate. Why? Because she says I can't turn my mind of yeah, but they say but dashed it did that's the crux of the matter. you're, not trying to turn your mind off you're trying to create, raising that you might be like, then mind began his mind. The best way to go what causes a given more space when you are trying to do some meditation did not trying to go anywhere, do anything might meditation of being present at just seeing what they are in the lead in its bid to you so the field if your breath the noise is going through, the room, yak of them could be anything to sit there and is letting you know. But if you're saying ok, my you got the wrong idea. Might the idea meditation is, is a start thinking or to close my now it s not with it. They had the the goal is to be present to what is So if you got all these thoughts did our negative Negative self talk. Can you create space?
will you can observe it? Let me speak to you without being identified with it. When I asked you a question because a selfish question, because I've been meditating for by nearly seven years, we write in a long time, but it's not nothing rent and and I'm getting better at doing what you're describing when I'm actually meditating another when I'm actually meditate, I do a reasonably good job of letting whatever comes up. You know that I was writing my sensations right, whatever the noises just letting it be there without reacting to it. However, I am clutch player and when I'm under pressure, when I'm under pressure a lot bosom alive, TAT S russian roulette up, it's better able the voice in my head ramps up. You know you, you did you come your hair, you know. Are you prepared for this union assailing and eighty it whatever it is? It's all yet. I have left right, but you control that I feel I can Yeah, because you let it do, it does well
based on your belief, ISM, is placed on how you seen things aware how you expect, and things is playing out the scenario based on your belief, What do I do about that to ensure beliefs so just done, If the steward smaller, like look in the mirror and tumult of unfair divide, you'd, tell yourself you're, not gonna, do a good job. You can tell yourself can be great don't be awesome and remember when you did the last time and you worried about it, I said: don't worry, do you have to Why before, and we don't just worry- we play out the scenarios are what the worry costs with the cards. when some of the bad of the way things are going to go. Play that out? but I believe that my Internal anguish is what allows me to be successful and well good luck without one. You know because it raises Ed's, because what it does it gives you energy, but you can get energy from love and joy and compassion how we talk about love enjoying compassion, and
a room full of dont behaving dont, be hating, do you have in part due to do better than that, don't be eaten and does it work yeah was these guys have to do some of hating is the right word, but certainly gonna feel not necessarily love and compassion enjoy for their opponents, but here's the key there competing against them, the competing against themselves. So when you, focus on being better than you were. I've been better today than were yesterday. The enemy is within its not out there. How did you feel good about yourself and you know you, the best you can watch out now there is nothing to do with you, not your business. How I have then, I might be concerned about it, but I can't control at what I can't control is me and allow Indiana be anyway, he needs because he's making a choice on some level,
if it's unconscious, even if its involuntary so this is what is about. Is about starting to see how, with thinking and the end of what, that's really important. Can we can we, the inner talk can we change it did so is consistent with our go, or this is gonna, be great racism, be you know, and even if I make a mistake, like you play the time you hit the wrong. No, if you keep plan no one on notice, and then you say: ok, you did mentally no ok. That was run. No, then you go out new practice. So did you get that back of the same you, you need a practice that you need to get that more, you know you got. Your Disney must go development in that area too, the approach it. That way is not a problem. In my I tell you I do take on my talked in everything it first, I hit some my voice. and I'd have all of these softer than then at some point cause I was doing this stuff and I stopped being a date, and I realized.
That's pretty good, we're back on his own, so is there, but I have that space is observing it as an observer. Not as my voice o does as me, but can I just into it like. I will listen anybody else. And not judge, but just then that's what my finances, not judging images. his noticing, what's goin, on and and learning from, let me speak to you so winter, Putting things all the time would not really here and what their win opening it based on what we already know so part of this is that the vulnerability did not know and to see what is so. These these laws genes that you taught guys like Shack and Kobe Michael Jordan. Are they still meditating some of them. I dont know I know copious, I don't know, but the others stuff that didn't ask him but Colby volunteered that I don't really get in to that. But Mindfulness is not just see DR dot Dre, has the definition for months for Protection- I am a man on money, money, oh Mamma, so what
is on your mind, is what your meditation is, that is what we call right, think it. So If you have thoughts of compassion, thoughts of seeking wisdom, That's a love, fats of, curiosity, then than that that So your intention follow your attention follows intention You have to believe me to check it out sometimes we're looking at things. We don't know what our intention is, but a we see, Look I'm looking at is therefore my intention is exe. If I gave my intention Then what I'm observing is gonna change, so we have James Starr but is only two years ago about The uh well or this idea free, will is choosing what we're gonna hold a mine. these things going through, but we can choose to hold something you're. My longer than would ordinarily stay by the actor will end. I guess that's what we call the practice, so we want to do. From the cushion
the cushion. So you can always being a body of your walking if you're standing city you can feel what your body feels like you can breathe a little bit and just pay attention what you doin. If I read for the water, this feeling that not thinking about it, but if I distinctly water, the hand goes, think about my right palm where's. Your tension go left farm left. Foot bottom So but we don't train that we don't open, my that we have that power, statues in this certain themes that are conducive to wholesomeness,. Like loving kindness, compassion, some projects, simple static, joy, like okay, so. The opposing team wins. examined at that. That's jealousy But what, if you say? Ok, they earn that before them. Now. Are you not have to fin net you're human being as well because one of your son was on it team, will you
people to hate him because he's posing team or would you want them the priest? did. He earned that victory or he earned when he got. that we are here to what we we get to our intentions. You know we creating faint, but we don't have that the standing that we create the world the are here is just a reflection of our inner life, you're playing a game, then what you express be it can be in line with that of you, wanna be compassionate. you talk to somebody in the inner dialogue. Is it what a jerk or you know but you know I don't like him or her You got chains and say I'll, get a judge, mental other human beings. Like me, they work acted. Even though I have this illusion, separateness, where the same. We human beings and retrain. We all want to be happy We all want to be successful. We are one experience, Grayson Ease, but
Because aid, we don't know how to do it, and then we don't do it. We want to play to blame game. Some pleasant place, a thing when in actuality we're making choices that, We can understand the choices were making them. in change it and I'll give you this little formula. That Gandhi, etc. You believe become your thoughts, become your words has become your actions. Your actions become your habits average become your values, your values become your destiny, go in and change chains any of those things. Oh, and we don't even know we have belief system. So sometimes we gotta wear back which, based on when I'm thinkin. This must be the the paradigm from which a mockery. And so what we want to do is and then we have paradigm blindness, because we have a paradigm and we don't even know it's there like glasses. We get on glasses- and we don't, even though we have one glass, but we can take them off But I love glass.
so this is what it is all about, transforming a mind making a mine, our friend, but also making a mine based on. decided it well connected. you know, we all want peace, and so can we, can we have the mind, see clearly We're causes suffering for ourselves when we kind of suffering for others. So by knowing that, then we can reverse it's ok, I want it created. Happiness so, then I create happiness for others in China, but the happiness advantage in his work, percent of long term happiness is predicated on how the brain interprets our experience. Ninety percent. So if you interpreted based on a goodness based, on our wisdom. The opposite of greed is generosity love, you know, hatred of a well loving kindness, goodwill, confusion, clarity with
if we called Vainer, we have those qualities of mine. If we have those attitude, then what we see what we do, what we feel is gonna be varied. If you had a lot of luck, teaching the beggars into balls to put the love glasses on an end. They did really well. You know working with the next you came in with Phil Jackson took over the next G M at a time when the next they weren't perform, that well, and so you guys, if your working with an in a tough situation, how is that going. It's going always gone going. My job is the same, whether their Winona not help them be present. and make wise choices, and so there is a lie at I work with that on a successful. the ones you know about but the idea is it takes. Tastes as long as it takes to transform or to create. a foundation in a structure. So here's what I said last year. I think the same this year
I've been going to the next is As you know, we go in. By my house, you going in is there's a crack in the ceiling, your crack in the wall, and you have repairing the cracks in the end you get them is. Then you realize ok, some, let's go. She was in a basement you gonna, based written. You realize foundation is off so you workin on the foundation, people go, buys a while is still a cracked. It is still this there, while the guy, The foundation is still being settled unless you fix foundation you just Addressing symptoms and not the cause, and so sometimes when you at to redo the foundation it takes longer and takes it Cuz it takes, and so you have to use them have the right effort, which is a continuous application of poise energy as like so would keep, will work at it And will continue to move forward and sometimes It doesn't feel like any things being done, but is being done as justice It has its own rhythm and pace, and so the question is
are the fancy New York Gonna be willing to have patience and trust. That is get there, but it's gonna take time and Our peoples are, you must be having a difficult time, whereas no is all good. If it's of their went in and I did the same joking you be present an anchor you a space. So you make a more form decisions. Are you in your living in a way according to how things are That's where you know the truth. You free are in Oates and you get that be. at present in a moment whether is painful, unpaid or what helpful pain for paying less Stella Sandro be present for and learn and understand it. Thus, ultimately, what were here the issue is how can we alleviate suffering? How can we Use what here, because reality is not everyone's gonna win the championship. It's not gonna happen, but it You can walk off the let s say you gave everything you gave an
fully present you did the best you can that's a winner. Not in the eyes of the fans? Who are? That's, that's fine, but at the same time, when you the team play and hard and, given all they got, could I had disease? What a busy bass wanting really Forty, but. You can't be, madam at because they gave you everything that you're, and so what you're? Asking of of our team now the next is just to give really, you have in Erasmus present minded way. Yeah. I had this course, you being from Massachusetts. You'll get this. I was teaching. I was given a talk at the Cambridge Centre. This was probably two thousand. And it was, a fan is said to how my gonna deal with being the Red Sox man. We haven't done it Jim. You know we'll Susan umpteen me in years, and this in that I said, logic folks, on being a good fan, this focus,
you know what it means to be a fan and support your team and accept them. As is what we do. We have conditional love. You know we love you only if you do it. I want to set up an oak. Love is unconditional, just just be a fan. Tis enjoyed a game and to support them in and hope that they can well a year later today wanted Hamish, everybody thinks I'm a genius if I didn't know that I just know that being present and being in a moment, everything's gonna turn out. Ok, you don't. ok or you have peace with what were turned. but we have this idea that is conditional If I do this only if that happened instead of saying no, I don't know what's gonna happen. Most just be present best? I can't do it. I know to do today, men at this moment and then that will affect the next moment, managed They reflect the next day, and so That's a mean. A lot of people want to hear a formula, but is really that simple: it is too late. Speak to you, learn from them and keep keep learning keep keep getting
you, keep put net, puzzles together So they were discussing before I was talking about how remarkable it is, the you ended up in them in the mindfulness world, given everything that come before for you and he says surprising. I ended up in my phone this time I born on third base. I my parents, listen to NPR their doctor's right now, so not the Ios. So they send me the yoga class at five. So no big deal that I ended up in in meditation. But we are in this situation where, in my analysis, at least my phone as meditation world, spite some very well intentioned effort by high high ranking people in the field is mostly white and mostly upper middle class. The. How do we change that? That's something that people ask me all the time and that one of my goes is just to make it available to everybody, not just in the inner city.
but in a row areas indian reservations. the countries on this planet. Is just doing what we need to do in this educating put in a word out. There is a way of being- and I think Sport is a wave of inasmuch as people love sports, I think, is one of the things where we had to sit and talk about how we gonna do that. How we got here. impact on one more. People are mean, wondered things. I'm Doin is working with the youth. working with this company to develop an app for fourteen it eighteen year, basketball, players and then writing a book about my valleys for teens. You notice some new ways of thinking about doing it, but we got it. We get him you know like, possible is spreading a good news. We have to give people
a vision, a possibility that yeah, you can be a little bit more waked, be mindful messy what happened, let's distrust being present, and that if we can let everybody released her. The divine spark at a masterpiece with them. I think that's the biggest thing is: is it get people to recognise that they have that and that we He did develop that an end He did not just what whose in the hours but there's a lot of people who are. who alive and were present the dough meditate cause is there hatred is so focused on. What did not that's what we need to be be expelled. What it means to my four, Was it minorities like them, what it means to be fully present. When you see people dormant there, really good at dead, usually really focus in concentrating, but they don't to take that love for that talk about sometimes take the love of the game. What you're doing, because the love of the game isn't the game? It's coming from you. So if you access that love, you can take that to wherever
You go so it's more about that, The question also have an answer, but to ask the question: is Canada denoting answer? Because now you start thinking about? Can we need to do that less think about it must reflect on it and then the answer will come And some people will do it in no way and at some point it hopefully wrote it'll get generate a critical mass wipe mindfulness is exploding now. So what happened? It's not as fast as we would like, but weaken accelerated by being embodying by modeling what and await person what it means to be awake and says not for Where were you when you're in awaken too, you're, not a van or whatever, but I've been to being a little bit more wake. Like you talk about your work, timid at ten percent happier, that's that's significant. me here. I think it's a pretty good yeah yeah, even two percent most benevolent her so is like that, he can't Microsoft song storm
guess you they're quicker or faster. That's what it is we design to do their day to day. Planning policies like Johnny. I proceeded thumb around and they're gonna take where this sunlight and oil is good in an is, you know, moisture and we just gotta trusted tat, enough for now and then, if we can focus on certain things like, I think we need Yet I youve before ices gets them, so we They have them understand that they have two ministries horses and how do we get them so they say no to that they see that that's against their values. We have to talk about values. We have to talk more about what it means to be a human being and and people who an effective or marginalized, because they look at their different skin color or they have a different. religion, we have to start real,
and what the consequences of that discrimination. How it affects people isolated, inefficient, separate we gotta, create more of a holistic of more of a communal, fail to what we're done. before we close, I want to get a sense of what is your daily practice. When do you do it? What are you doing how you howison? Yes, yes, that's a very good question: twenty four seven, my daily, it is so when, when I wake up in the morning and then my body and fill in my body and breathing reckon As an ok was my energy level like I could sleep a little bit more to jump up, got some excited to do something and then is really understanding. What lender my observing my experience with moment to moment. I can be aware of how I'm seeing things when I'm thinkin about sources, inner. The journey of this checking in you know what I'm feeling you know what I myself talk. You know how much in thing, so it's really about being able to sit
and the red literature remind myself about. You know this practice is about what mindfulness is. Why study a lot, I read books, but mostly is just reflecting on. You know what, if I become a channel of love, one of It is meditate on love and let my love flow through me and when thought it Dan was. Someone comes I can send them love Orford. Somebody who. is challenging. I can send them forgiveness or may be happy so there's a lot of things we can do but is really from there data day moment to moment, reminding myself that whatever cost you men? I can feel my body and I can feel my breath. You have a formal practice that you yeah. I do formal and informal, but I dont separate them how How long is your formal practice? If penny time I have, I might be able to sit for for half an hour If I'm lucky forty five minutes for sometimes two minutes here than two minutes there, so it you know sometimes-
Mikey come on my tied, or sometimes you just don't my stretching. Sometimes just doing my work and some a lot of time has just maybe right and my journal and reading about the practice we reading things it talk. Being present were talks about How is my body process works? And also reading about like dunno sites, understanding how we can retrain the brain we created do know: but my practices so form? Lee it's not allotted all the time. If I, if I could squeeze in an hour a day that would be great in terms of sitting but in is a moving in and is being you know like they would change my mind from from like or frustration too. You know we call right mind furnaces between a mine is really more about me, getting clear about and my attitude was my perspective on my sin.
Thanks, and why am I saying things different way? So sometimes it's not just being a asylum, it's trying to get so information about how unseen things. A worm seen things a certain way or or the fact that my minus distracted, that's all crowded upright, Is distracted strategy to keep thinking about this one theme: what's up with that, and then maybe the term toys was that and why am I so upset or so concerned about this issue and then go deeper. Think about what is this about, and so these so there is a lot of ways it, but is really a simple just really. if this measure, later. I have- and I was right my book- it's like I never faith fade in blood. Exactly why we want a macbook there's always puts out there. I can't write a book whom the awful, as you know, the is the judge. You know the critic, and
I said: ok well what I said, sir. He said always is this Rennie Universe, unfriendly less always friendly in while Cato what are the lie? The laws are, if I focus on what I want and when I a great I want to serve. I can't that fought mine in the same thought it you know I can't do this is too hard. It hurts its unpleasant. focus on what I can't control. When I can do- and that is my attitude, my efforts I can always controls. Are you trying in your practice to become enlightened. And what do you think that even means a centre? It's kind of like. here's. How I see it? That's my ultimate goal, like everything else. When you sat a go I could be enlightened or to do I thought or whatever you said, the girl. But then you focus on the journey, so You can be zone ready.
who can be enlightenment, ready, that's what I'm talkin about. So yes, so yeah! That's all it is I want to go. I wanna be fearless you would you would you think about? What do you think enlightenment means it meant enlightenment or, like the word awakening, means and am fully awake, and I can see things and I am experiencing without agreed hatred delusion that I could to see things as they are and have their equanimity, compassion and love so lightly. fully present with no, this being open with things as they are not leaving them to change even seeing suffering realising you know, I can add compassion. But a person suffering, but also known that. Life is suffering and to you is this just an ideal or you ve ever actually met anybody who meets these criteria. I'm I've I've seen some people read about people who were of a whore seriously
fancied, I met the Dalai Lama, obviously in some other folks- and they have an energy, they have our spirit and I read about a mile in I have photographs of men, the monks that and deep concentration in and I study but the Buddha and stuff like that and I replied done the qualities it was more about identifying with their qualities, then the price. Themselves, because they are like we have put a nature. We have the were wide for my men. So whether happens, not said another but the more? I try to be enlightened. The less I'll be in my learn that, like writing, a book wants to stop trying to read a book erode herself. So there's something about former intention and then allowing it to happen? the Dalai Lama was our first guest on this progress and he told me he thought my meditation practice was still in its very early stages. I got that got for me
he'll yeah! Well, that's yeah! Well, you know he has button that he had a format and his tradition what it means. But ultimately, I think you know there's a book is called chop wooden carry one before enlightenment. We chop wooden, carry water after enlightenment which up wooden carry one but deed, but they are not identified with this. The sense of self Supposing fear and that sort of I have moments. Were these fearlessness, but I say I'm just trying to do at the moment and the teaching about the fact is an alignment I'd, try to study that and do that stuff I dont really see it like to do that or you know my name is gonna, be ruinous more like yeah, path, I'm learning how to be more mindful how to gather more intelligence. Or more wisdom as I go along and and
right now is enough in all my going retreat and reflect on things. I think, about enlightenment and stuff like that, but I don't the goal, but is not something I'm focus on one focus on that a man here I got tell people all the time, focus on how you doin that focus on what you don't and what you're doin, but it's ok to have it out there. Just like, I feel like I may be different cause. I feel like. I have to measure my practice. have to monitor it. It might get in. Better am I not so the fight for your powers of one way to measure practice to have more trust them. I we have more wisdom, am I mean right effort with the boy. You know what a Senate Miss. Am I being more mindful? How can I do about more mindfulness? How can I get a secret as a continuity? from moment to moment- and I am not able to do that- twenty four seven but the intention
from my full for twenty four seven I'll be enlightened joint muffin? Pleasure to have you on the show figure, appreciate it. The book is called the mindful athlete after having all your work for so many years. It's just very gratifying to finally meet you, sir. Thank you framework. There's another edition of the ten percent happier podcast, if you like it, and we need you up for a favor, please subscribe to it, review it and read it. I want to also thanks to people who produce this podcast Josh Go Lauren, Efron, Sarah AMOS and ahead of ABC News, Digital Dan silver and heavy up a twitter Danby Harris next time.
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