« Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris

#70: Clair Brown, Economist, Author of 'Buddhist Economics'

2017-04-05
Clair Brown, an economics professor at UC-Berkeley and a Tibetan Buddhist, was teaching an introductory course when she asked herself, "How would Buddha teach Econ One?" Brown went on to write the book, "Buddhist Economics: An Enlightened Approach to the Dismal Science," and advocates for a more mindful approach to how we contribute to society, for example, that as consumers, we should work to simplify our lives by focusing on what matters most to us, buying less and reducing our carbon footprint.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
You're breaking a rule on this week's podcast with only broken this role once before, which is that I'm an interview. Somebody was not actually with me in the studio I liked him like to be in the room of the person we did is once before with the gas fundamentalists and we're doing it again with clear Brown, whose a economists at you see Berkeley in California. I wanted she was. She was gonna, be in New York City anytime soon, and I really want to get around cash, as is very interesting. New book called Buddhist Economics, which comes out at a very interesting time in an hour politics and in our economy, and she really tries to imagine what would the economy would be like if the Bhutto was run in the thing she fascinating. She gonna say things that you may disagree with, but here out, because she's definitely thought this stuff through here ago, hears Clare Brown.
For maybe see this is a ten percent. Have your podcast I'm down her leg for doing this really appreciated unhappy rejoining? How did you become a buddhist economist? I was teaching Econ one at you, see Berkeley two eight hundred students with my twenty graduate students, teachers and we taught free market economics because it so simple, is sowing,
you learn and it's pretty powerful, but I was out walking my greyhound. I was a practising tibetan Buddhists and we like looked at each other, and I'm thinking you know how it Buddha teaching Con one, because we really matters how incomes distributed equities, really important sustainability. We have to care so much about global warming. Somehow we aren't covering that. Well, so we should rethink it, how it, how it Buddha teacher Introductory Economics, and so it started from their talk me through the process of you actually becoming a Buddhist. Could you it's not what you are? You are a lifelong Buddhist known not at all, then it some I didn't have one. May Your like you did. They got you meditating. Instead, that tried different forms of Buddhism or spiritual practices over the years, but nothing really clicked for me and then one day a tibetan Lama moved
not far from my house in my neighborhood and opened a meditation hall in an old episcopal church, and I thought oh, my gosh. I used to be episcopalian and now it's tibetan buddhist meditation. Let me go try it My husband and I tried it, and we really thoughts are teacher, was just terrific reflect on I'm thinkin, and so we started practicing in our mind you. This is like a timid walk from my house, it's like my neighborhood and I started sitting meditating every day and practicing and it was just fantastic. I had that same reaction you had of wow. This is a terrific improvement in my life.
And so you are you're you're. Being an economist predated, your being a Buddhist. How big a shift in paradigm did it required to start applying what you were learning and Buddhism to what you ve been studying for so many years as a pretended economy? It is a major shift. Although many economists, including Nobel laureates, had been making that shift such as Amartya SEN, where he lifted people's capabilities in their quality of life and the major shift in the past nine goes from what's human nature so and free market economics we assume people or selfish their egotistical, they only care about themselves. There not altruistic, and all they care about is consuming. More is always better, so the whole focus in life is consumption, filling up your clause, its fullest stuff shy
being an going out and buying things and getting more and more income and it sir, it's a one law situation, one one person doing better and consuming more. Is somebody doing less well? Well, if you think about Buddhism, one of the things I love about it is it you, first of all, you think human nature is kind and altered. Dick and that's your inner Buddha. Everyone has an inner Buddha, that's kind and loving and altruistic. Now we may cover we make. We may not be in touch with it, but one or two things with meditation as you talk about in your book over time, when you meditating sit, you actually become more compassionate and so, if you start assuming o everyone's inner dependent with each other and with nature,
and that one of the things I want to do is actually overcome. My ego and film, I feel my connection in my compassion for other people, which is a wonderful improvement in the way you live First of all, you ain't even up doing a win, win new, no longer competing with every body in terms of who gets to buy this or who gets that promotion or who wins this game, because when you help other people be better off, you feel better off and and the Neuro scientists have showed us. If you wanna, be happy, actually go out and help someone that makes you happier so so, where the biggest shifts in the paradigm is adequately what you assume about human nature and then the second shift is: what do you assume about? What makes you happy. So you move from egotistical person. Just spoken,
who they are, and they get happy by shopping and consuming to human nature. This kind and altruistic and becomes happier by helping other people feeling connected the people helping nature enjoying nature and also creating a meaningful life. So it's it's a major shift both in how you see the world and also are you think the economy should be structured and performing, but so I consider myself a Buddhist, but I I not gonna lie here. I like buying stuff, I like making money so my bad Buddhist. No, no, no, no, actually, thus, a great question because he like giving up caring about material possessions nor doing well, but you are giving up the important thing
is the first of all, not harmony people, so when you're making money or when you're going out and getting hit in the world, you don't do it on on the backs of other. People, you don't do it by lighting line and shooting in thanking you are the big deal, maker annual do anything to get the deal, so that's number one don't harm and then the second one is to not get attached to the outcomes. Didn't don't get attached to all your possessions in your materialistic way of life. You want to stay. Tat, otherwise, you're too focused on materialism, and you aren't really thinking about your human spirit. New aren't really thinking enough about How can I make my life meaningful? How can I actually help the world or help other people so for your example you. Actually your book really helped a lot of people and you didn't write. Your book
road. It you didn't, hurt anybody. You were just presenting your the to the world in a way that really connected and made other people fine, more meaning in their lives. So it's all sort of you, do what you're doing and how you feel about, and your willingness to share with others. Well. We showed that on one level and then that you're you let me off the hook, but I mean, if you re, a close reader of your book will notice that you talk about out the economy as a big global system, where what we did, decisions we make, as consumers can actually harm people the other side of the planet or animals in our very neighbourhood. Or the whole planet through the climate system? And yeah. I wrote my book without hurting anybody that I know of
but you know I still flying airplanes and I still eat meat, and I still my wife and I sometimes make you friends of purchases instead of just giving that money, as as you quote, an economist believe believe is like Peter Singer, symbolic like that it talks about the fact that, every decision you make is there's an opportunity cost there you could probably save a life, and yet you know we just bought a fancy chair for my kids room and I think about these especially after reading your book and- and I really do wonder whether, on whether it's a bad Buddhist that matter may be too bad human being, I I think, what's important is when you're buying things your Ashley conscious of it. You think this is causing harm and I noticed your example was a nice cheer for your child This room is like hey Dan. That's it that's a nice cheer for your kid. It wasn't an extra pair of fancy boots the EU through in the closet, along with your twelve other pairs of fancy shoes,
and then you talked about flying in new know that actually flying has a terrible carbon footprint. That was one of my worst carbon footprint and I started in fact in our at it, you see Berkeley working with a lot of engineers. I said we're going to start doing conference calls we're not going to keep flying everywhere and they loved it and it worked out. But it's like you know. Only did that once I learn how bad my carbon footprint was from flying and then you think about when you go to buy a car. you really should by attests life you can afford it, because it's so much better for the environment, can lace and inexpensive a leaf car or Sparky V, but two right now go out and buy a gas guzzling car and drive it around is really a terrible idea. Is this not goodest buddhist practice is not good any practice, in fact, because it's killing the earth
As is Pope Francis said, Emma Dato see he was so clear ability, he said, look few put any carbon in the year. You're hurting people you're killing people its. Since it's not moral like ok, he was very spot on so once we should be very aware of what were buying, how is affecting the world, how it's sort of impacting on us as individuals. But the point is a year where you're thinking about it, which is like what we shall be doing right well, I mean I'm thinking about a right now, because I spent the last week listened your book on hunting on tape really got me thinking, and I go through these jags, where I think about this stuff, like vegetarianism or veganism, more conscious consumption, and that I can you know, forget about in lapse back into being a typical for West side, but you know, white guy, and so
I really do have some ethic you're here to him my voice, some guild about this and also, on the other hand, some sir scepticism about, like you know how far do we take this thing every time I start, bodega by backing them. Should it be thinking about you know who made thing and where and and so. I guess I have a lot of questions. You could start anywhere well, I think these are difficult, questions, especially in the? U S, especially in New York City. Were people always They are all comparing each other. How do we look? What are we doing? Where's your vacation? I mean those comparisons are well. Dublin said invidious comparisons, and it is really good, I think, when people start making some of these comparisons. If you ever can just stop and say: hey, you know what, this is an invidious comparison, you say to yourself: it is, of course you wanna be kinder, your friends, but you might even think about and find a way to talk about it in a way where
you're, no longer making the invidious comparison, and you might even if you had thought about the mindful way to say, take your vacation. You could talk about that or, if you're thinking about a less carbon- and in a way to get around town, which you can do a New York, you can talk about that, but you can talk about it in a way that actually tries to get people away from their sort of com. De materialism and being more thoughtful about what they're doing now less take meat. I agree with
Is it the meat issue is really really important in I'm, not a vegetarian. I oughta, I actually would be if I lived alone, that my husband has some health problems and needs to eat meat, but we once I brought this book and I saw the carbon footprint of beef and lamb, which was way worse than pork or eggs or cheese or chicken. You know what we ve looked at each other and we said no more beef and lamb. We will stop now. I gotta tell you: I grew up in the south. I love Lamb. It's my favorite meat I haven't Now for a few years- and I don't miss it anymore- but it's like the carbon footprint of beef and lamb is so bad that one of the messages in the book is less just stop beef and lamb or eat them just in a really rear instance. But then the next step is you don't need to be vegetarian, but
You know if you would cut your meat consumption down to like two ounces of day. You need more me four hours a day, but MAX like really cut back how much meat you eat it would beating radical improvement. It would cut the met thing. One bar, honest greenhouse gases way back in the United States. It would stop a lot of the cruelty that we practise against animals. But mainly we would stop killing the earthen, oh by overheating it. So I I think, there's a lot, what we can do that are like small steps, but have big impact I like that. I like that you're not a maximum list is, I do think, exhibit exponentially more doable. What are the other steps? You know? As a Basque, mainly as a consumer as a participant in the economy, where the other steps. Well, let's personalized, What else have you, whether change now you ve become a buddhist economists rather than a free market economy? What are the other?
changes you made in your own behaviour right what we talked about flying. You talked about eating, I definitely by less. I I make my clothes a longer, and I I try very well. Ok, here's my true confession: I hate shopping century leaf old. Could I hate up so lotta people love to shop and some of us dont? Do it very well me hate it, so that was actually somewhat a relief, oh good. I now have a good reason did not have to shop so much and the other things that become very important are our use of electricity, so the biggest greenhouse gas, asked component in the United States was electrical generation, but now that's a spin surpassed by transportation so I think we need to think seriously about our transportation, but also our energies. So three,
there is a go- I least Sparky v I had a previous every May, my back up car, but we got us an electrical little chevy Sparky V, I had been a Chevy Lawton decades are loved. Going back to share relies. I carry this discard built in Korea, so through Chevy, great little Koran, loved and electric vehicle. It was quiet, it was fun the least ran out, and I had to give it back. Last. and I really miss it. So I need to go find another electric car. But then also on energy, Non California, Did you do it? I'm I tell you we did. We barely turn our heater and instead we have lots of blankets and sweatshirt, so we hand out there and we have a super efficient wood burning, stove that when we
they need to feel more comfortable with gas? We weaken fern, burn little wood from eucalyptus, trees in our neighbourhood and so we use very, very little energy. Am we ve tried to get rid of all the gas appliances in our house, because using gas is very bad when you can get clean electricity, so in our committee we were had the option of buying one hundred percent clean electricity and now work. City people are getting that option to be aid, to buy one hundred percent clean energy from wind and solar so we signed up for that and then we tried to get rid of the gas appliances and use a gas in our house so that we could use only electricity and thus a future. All gonna learn how to live from electricity. Only that, hopefully, is all playing.
which means when in solar it doesn't mean gas the idea the gas companies really soulless abyla good. They taught us about so called natural gas, which is methane and methane, and- first. Thirty years is eighty times hotter than just using petroleum and is not is, play a little bit worse than some coal fire plant. So this idea that we're going to go from coal to gas, natural, so called natural gas. I just have to call that nothing is going to make it Cleaner is a misconception that the gas companies have taught us. So we need a real push to say no. We really do need to move to wind and solar, and we need to do it quickly and we need the government to count. New, helping with subsidies in the infrastructure and so forth. because right now we're subsidizing, fossil fuel companies and that
stop and were first word. We were, they about investing a lot of fossil fuel infrastructure that should stop, but you see, I'm quickly. Moving from, do we as individuals due to what does a country do because, our actions as individuals or shaped and formed by the government policy. Well. Let me standing individual level just for a minute, because I suspect some People listening to this are thinking. You know, I'm just trying to survive You know, I'm so busy I've got. Kids gets we have got a couple jobs. I don't have any time so like how am I going to make the time till I convey to get where my powers coming from vessels were this. Next, whether I bought was, you know, stitched make sure I'm getting locally source maiden voyage, who all that stuff that that would make me a proper buddhist economists
what do you say that cannot push back? What I'm sure, that's how you become a so called proper buddhist economists like I think, first of all, if you buy less, you have a lot more time in your life gets much simpler and so that in itself, its rid of some of these problems you mentioned, and then the other thing you really want to care about is you enjoying life really want to enjoy life. And how are you doing to enjoy life you're right, families like pair you're working and raising kids are so stressed out and have so little time that one of the most important things I think is: how can I simplify life? What can we do where, if we simply, my life. If we by less, if we just think of little bit harder about some sort of what's important to us,
Let's start focusing on that, and I think the most important things we learned to do as working parents is also working parents when, like all for twenty years I think we learn to say no note the things that we decide really are important to us. We don't have to do we say yes to me time with our kids more time with our neighborhoods more time with things that we actually think or fine, and we and sometimes saying no to things that we think. Jesus, ok is boss, gonna think it's ok, but I think the boss, say. It's! Ok, if Europe clear about why you're doing it, this is my own you'll have to do this with my family. I'm doing this for my kids in just be rural, clear about it because we need to enjoy life were supposed to be happy. We aren't supposed to feel just stressed out like
oh no, and I think that we would all feel a lot better if we stepped back in look. How could our lives are is astonishing, how good our lives or am the next time report I don't have enough money or don't have enough of this or that step back and say, sat really true. What what can I cut back on her? What can I do that? I really dont care about? Is I'm one of focus, more on the things that really matter to me now, thus becoming a buddhist economist, focusing on what matters to us in finding this space in our lives for Meda, I agree with you about not taking things were granted and seeing how good our lives actually are. I feel that way, although I am aware that I'm enormously privileged in was born on third basin.
Etc, etc, but I'd, I definitely think it's true. I wouldn't. I would not be careful personally, just myself telling other people can like. I don't know. If other peoples has your horse could, but I definitely a definite screw you for myself that it makes a lot of sense and can mitigate alot of suffering. To just do the simple and very cliched thing of counting ones, blessings so mute. You tried to steer this conversation earlier. to show the larger structure of the economy, and I ate a derailed you, but I'm not gonna, put you back on the rails. What whoop? I would America look different if we ran the economy as a buddhist economy as opposed to a free market economy, and I guess the the second part of that question is: do you have any realistic hope that we will actually ever do that? I have great hope that we will do that. I, I almost think the cat, For he was like in an alcoholic bench in some sense, in that we we were just getting out of kilter, we lead any quality, just get out of hand. We,
are contributing way too much carbon emissions in causing a lot of global warming per capita per capita per GDP. We had them. Highest carbon emissions of any of the major countries, and so we were This will really getting out of hand, and we weren't really doing the job. We should be doing on our two biggest challenges and equality and global warming, and so is like we, we elected Donald Trump and is like we ve, hit rock bottom, like ok, so now he's really going full speed ahead on on the fossil fuel industry is going through head on getting more income for rich people in rich companies, and so like. Oh ok, we clearly hit rock bottom. So all we can do in my opinion from here. is go up, and so then you say: oh ok! Well what would a buddhist economy look like that's exactly the right question for me, so we know
we know from George Stiglitz and Amartya SEN and Tony Atkinson. Some of our very best economist want inequality that a country chooses its level of inequality and they demonstrated that and we know the policies that will we do, inequality ending in make a more just economy, and so Joe Stiglitz, Texas, through it in his book. Tony Atkinson gives us teen policies. Robert rice gives us of slew a policy caesar policies that are known to reduce unequal. and make people better off, make the country better off improve. Well, being or talk about. Mr Wurtz, we're talking about not not necessarily higher pet higher taxes. More progressive taxes were talk,
Nobel, less consumption of the rich forebore consumption for those in need, so economic growth has gone disproportionately to the rich two percent. So in the last recent recovery from the recession, the top one or two percent of the population, the richest, took ninety five percent of the fruits of economic growth is like what no? No that's not right, and we don't want to do anything that increases income of the rich while were hurting the poor. So we want to do the opposite, and one of the nice things about Buddhist Economics is because of people's interconnection and people being altruistic at their core that when you take money from the very rich so that they may be spend less on exotic vacations or New York and give it to families towards the bottom, thereby and better food
better education, safer housing, their families are much better off. So that's what those are the kinds of policies that economists who care about any quality tell us work. We know they were higher minimum wages, decent jobs, restructuring workplaces, so people have more time off for children in an forces partaking care sickness. We have lots of ways make the economy better in terms of improving well being and making it more equitable and- and let me guess, go one or their cept or other major challenge that I work on a lot on, which is sustainability or global. coming economist also get to choose the amount of car
ambitions that our economy puts into the air. So we know we have to decouple the economy from the fossil fuel industry and in Europe they are doing a pretty good job of going forward on this, and in California were starting to finally go ahead on that and the? U S was starting to decouple the economy from carbon emissions until the price of gas went so low and then and soon resolves retraining. Their previous is to get ass. You these and pick up drugs. So so that was unfortunate that we live, The price of gas lingo low and waited slap on a carbon tax, but we didn't and concern Where's took us back a step, but we we can go forward again. Is our choice? Is a country's our choice? How many car
emissions we put in the air, and we know the policies that in fact, would stop that. We have to road maps marked Jacobson Stanford and the deep decline innovation plan of the. U N shows how all, countries around the world can reach the Paris agreement. Two percent are two rather two degree: temperature razor less by the technology. We have an United States that technology to go to eighty percent clean energy by twenty, fifty and fifty according to Mark Jacobson at Stanford. Would there's only one percent of our GDP, which is nothing so is like we had these choices. We know the policies we have the technology. We just need to really push ahead, we are learning we're going to understand that this we really do want to
create a much more meaningful life with more equity and unless global warming will. If we look at your policy prescriptions in in total in terms of what it would take to make us a buddhist economy as opposed to free market economy. What's the push back, if we had a hard nosed free market, I missed on this podcast right now. What would she or he say to you to debunk your claims? I think they would say: look people are selfish people, heavy goes people care about having total freedom of choice. That's all they. What people want total freedom of choice? They don't care about, what's happening to other people. That's not what makes I'm happy. They really do want to keep buying and us really what they care about. They love materialism they are.
I feel any better. If other people are better off, they really are they don't care? I think they just push back on. What's human nature and people care about a meaningful life in other than buying binding, consuming and sort of get getting ahead in their own mine? So I think that's where a lot of the push back is any other. There is a group of Americans. I do feel that way, There is also a group of Americans where they say. Don't tell me what to do. I have my own idiosyncratic personality and I don't want you to touch it. Yeah. So what do you say to them? I say to them that air every single study of what makes people happy. In fact, fine people are happier when there is a community where they can help people and people, are getting better off and that it is true that there are these few outliers.
At our super competitive van. Don't don't touch me? Don't touch my turf, but in fact those people are happy. We have our inner nature. I am sure every single person- At some level, internally is kind and generous and loving, but no, how we conclude that over and we can- we can take long sort of an external view of the world where we all we care about, it's getting ahead. Winning game. We can take that one, and it is true that I think winning the game making a purchase. It does make you happier, but not for very and so the studies on happiness show that in fact, there's this review version back to your former level of happiness, her unhappiness. So you have this constant need to keep Goin out and trying to overcome your pain.
well, you're unhappiness by once again going out consuming more getting ahead. Winning and this like an endless struggle and these relations ability. Yes, I said that its endless is like it's not gonna, give you lasting happiness, So I think you sort of need to separate out what gives you a big burst of happiness euphoria and what gives meaningful happiness over your lifetime. Are you gonna end up? with hedonic happiness, where you just won't quit pleasure, oh pain, but it's here in its hearing go on board Why the aristotelian happiness of hail? in a creative, meaningful, worthy life? I want to develop my full potential as a person I wanna be part, of a community that I give to the Arthur
I think you're, a lotta conservative too, who push back? Who would accept that meaning is extremely important? You know I'm part of a church, I'm part of a community, we serve others, we adopt foster children, etc, etc. But I dont want the government in my life in such a at excessive way, taxing me setting up rules that I have to abide by making sure I buy a certain kind, car, etc, etc. How to respond to that will. I think the first thing to do is to start on sustainability and say: look without the government. We are going to kill the planet so with global warming. I think you can bring people together. Much more understanding of the role of the government is absolutely critical of gum and around the world we're all in this together and it has to be done. Fairly rapidly to bring down the carbon emissions.
oh that we don't over, he feared or more than we have now. When you get down to equity. I think I think you get into more on more disagreement So, for example, you you talk to someone who thinks of themselves as a church, goers christian and you talk about the starvation them terawatt, starvation and say Southern Africa Support Sub Saharan Africa and usually they'll admit that that's athlete unfortunate that may be should think about that. But then they say, but you know I'm already doing this her this through this and that my
that is you will you know, the? U N and their millennium development goals over fifteen year period brought down extreme starvation and extreme hunger in warm asleep, and they did it by that country's the rich countries coming together and having a public private plan is not just government but as a public private plan that targeted how to reduce extreme starvation and hunger and they didn't only wipe it out, but they put like they reduced by like eighty percent. They were also able, at the same time, to raise education, especially for women and girls, and to reach some other targets, really improve people's lives and made people much better off
and so now is just a matter of figuring out how to work with the, U N and all the other rich countries to do things in the world that most people actually agree here. Actually those are good ideas and. In that respect, the role of the government isn't directly impacting on them right, but it is, You know we are in it and in America, first era it now and the argument scene, to go along the lines of we ve got crumbling imprecise, sure here at home. Why would we be sending money to camp countries overseas whilst Certainly we should spend money on helping, these overseas before we spend on new weapons systems. So it's not like we aren't. I agree that we need to rebuild the infrastructure But once again we don't need to rebuild the fossil fuel infrastructure. We don't need to build new
weapons systems instead of helping impoverish nations, which would then actually help us abroad is like foreign affairs. We know Lhasa ways. We could spend money in a much better way that would help us abroad in terms of countries helping us and people like. thus an undermining terrorist dead or recruiting people with thousands of revenge against the. U S so We know how to actually spend our money better than just more weapons systems or at the? U S. we don't wanna thing. Rebuilding the infrastructure is rebuilding as building a wall alone, Mexico, and we don't want to think rebuilding the infrastructure, is building pipelines to carry oil all over the United States. For me, rebuilding a modern infrastructure is critical, but it means transit system in transportation systems in livable cities and efficient buildings and clean energy.
Give us a modern infrastructure for a competitive economy and then the? U S, who has been a leader in green technology, we make money from it. We can remain competitive globally and at home on clean energy. If, if we don't do that, if we go revert back to building an structure for fossil fuel than China's gonna take over the leadership of green technology, along with Germany and France, and will lose our position No, it's not like. If you wanted to fly And what makes Amerika great to me? It's being a leader in green technology, building a modern infrastructure saw our economy moves to a competitive, robust economy,
Green Energy era, and we can do that while we are improving people's well being is like we know these policies, we have the technology, we can do it, but it's not it's not building a fossil fuel economy or weapons systems before it goes about an hour of the right word here is theological or doc crying. Oh, I don't know what the right word here is, but I have a question about Buddhism because you said repeatedly In our conversation, you say in your book that that Buddhism holds that people are essentially good my understanding and I'll admit right now to my understanding is not always the correct one. Some might argue, rarely the correct my understanding is that kind of a leader Buddhist claim like was something he would hear in Tibetan Buddhism, for example. I have not understood that to be
a claim of kind of the old School Buddhism that I've studied, and it is a claim that hard to prove it me we can prove humans have their better angels for sure, but that are that we have some core Buddha nature, always wondered about that to me the proposition that are at least as I understand it, of Buddhism of the kind of Buddhism that I've practiced witches, Terawatt Buddhism, which is as us and has referred to his old school Buddhism. He eats more that we have the capacity for all sorts of urges. Wholesome and unwholesome and we also have the capacity to train our minds and our brains to develop either or so that I can try through meditation. I can train myself to be more compassionate or through. Not, updating in indulging. my serve less wholesome urges. I can get better at bay. red being a jerk, so judgment.
What you're would your take is on on the foregone yeah? I think that I'm certainly A buddhist master by any means, but I do know what you just said, Anne and I actually agree with it. I myself practice mahars my young a, but when I was in India of a lover year ago, I spent quite a bit of time down with that. Their body learned monks and talk to them about it, and they said actually people try and make this differentiation. But it's really not there. because if, as long as we see the world in our place in it is people are all interconnected, Werner connected with with nature- and we all of terrible whole terrible, urges that we do need to tame. You know we have our clashes. We have green we, we have moments when were angry and must be hit. We have all we all go through rural human and we did
Meditation does help us to sort of sea than in how to maybe deal with it better, but they said, don't, spend too much time worrying about the differentiation between the various branches of Buddhism, because they all teaches not to harm and they all teachers to develop our good nature and the things that are they all teaches to develop compassion, loving I notice in caring, for others ends, oh it's like they, they convinced me they said, and I at one point: did the two schools were together in an eighth century? They do and then they would started getting very technical, obvious it. Oh, I can tell that this is more than I could ever learn and they smile, I need say: that's. Ok, then, ain't thing is to know that we know what, I'm not to harm. We know how to help. We know how to love and be compassionate. We know,
All these other closures or bad urges? We have are things that we all continuing work on. Overcoming makes makes sense to me clear what what a pleasure to sit and chat with use thought provoking very much much though, and for this conversation and your book. So thank you very much for your time is wonderful. Talking to you in and thank you for your book and for your outreach to the world Ok, there's another edition of the ten percent happier podcast. If you liked it, please make sure to subscribe rate us and If you want to suggest topics, we should cover or guess we should bring in hit me up on Twitter at Denbigh Harris. I also want to thank hardly the people who produced this podcast been really do pretty much all the work: Lauren Efron, Cohan, SARA Amos and crew Cab, Steve Jones and the head of ABC News, digital dance, silver, I'll talk to you next Wednesday,
There's not a person in Amerika who hasn't been impact it in some way by the corona I was pandemic, but it every community. There are pockets of people who were soon.
every day this is my last day of the cylinder stretch to drive off about photos from one of our Visa or America's essential workers, the people who are keeping moving. I turn into a home school mom and now in a new programmes. From eighty see news you gonna hear from damage. I she went back to my office and so unkind because he is not here, and I can assure you that our community has found faintly worrying. This is essentially inside the from the emergency room. The police cruiser to the Czech outline Yuki one. This pandemic sounds like the people putting themselves no one's way, there's always a risk. Brain is home to re. Kids are my husband or maybe errands, listen to the essentials inside the curve on Apple podcast, river, pod, costume.